The Biggest Untapped Transit Opportunity in the US?
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- čas přidán 9. 10. 2023
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There is little transit expansion that would be as transformation as modern suburban rail across the United States. And you don't need to look internationally to find all the constituent elements of great suburban rail!
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Ever wondered why your city's transit just doesn't seem quite up to snuff? RMTransit is here to answer that, and help you open your eyes to all of the different public transportation systems around the world!
Reece (the RM in RMTransit) is an urbanist and public transport critic residing in Toronto, Canada, with the goal of helping the world become more connected through metros, trams, buses, high-speed trains, and all other transport modes.
Please consider making a video about train stations that double as malls and grocery stores.
Sounds like any major train station in large German cities. Those are popular, because in train stations and airports stores are allowed to open on Sundays and holidays.
I wish we had that holy cause actually the city I live in is only one that reaches a local store and its the only reason I ride it😂😂
This should be normal everywhere. More foot traffic means more passengers. Everybody wins.
@@ianhomerpura8937 i just came across a reddit post about singaporeans complaining (well it's our national hobby) about overcrowded shopping malls which are invariably connected to train stations
Most MRT stations in Singapore are like that
The US would be so OP if they made literally any effort whatsoever in regional rail
Running New York Penn Station as a commuter "terminal" for two agencies is the root of all of its issues. Thru running is the one concept that renovation proponents have yet to see universally as crucial. It's hard to overestimate how important this is. Yet still so many proposals have their worth judged by to what degree they will increase midtown property values. Of course the challenge is merging the agencies. The future of suburban rail in the metro area literally depends on making this a reality.
What I'd be interested in is whether or not NJ transit, LIRR, and MNR can combine into one commuter rail system someday. THe IRT, BMT, and the IND consolidated into one agency, MTA, so I wonder if the commuter rail can do the safe someday like you mentioned.
If you go to for example Euston Station in London, you will find trains operated by London Overground (local services), London North Western (regional services between London and Birmingham), and West Coast (Intercity services to the North of England and Scotland). That seems to work fine.
@@katrinabryceYes but if I'm not mistaken London Euston is a terminal and was designed as one. New York Penn was designed as a thru running station but is currently used as a terminal by its commuter lines. Therein lies the issue.
@@bobwhit1544 also there's a separate body in the UK (Network Rail) to all of the operators which owns the infrastructure, which likely has an effect on discussions between the various operators
Agreed. This is at pet peeve of mine regarding the NYC commuter rail system, it's so balkanized, terminating trains, different fare systems, different schedules, etc. Metro North and LIRR at least should be able to be merged with relative ease administratively, though doing it physically could be a bit more difficult, and the LIRR and NJT should be able to be merge physically quite easily, if not administratively due to them being in different states. It sometimes seems to me as if US states have a more difficult time cooperating within a single country, than *countries* do in Europe, which is quite bizarre.
Thanks Reece for highlighting Philly/SEPTA’s regional rail tunnel - as someone who uses the suburban trolley line (Rt 101) daily and regional rail (Media/Wawa) more than weekly, we have great infrastructure in place that needs to get back to pre-pandemic service levels (and then some) so the entire Philly region can continue to have the best regional rail system in the US.
We also need to electrify the rest of our tracks and finish restoring truncated services to their previous termini. Growing up in WC it sucked having to go all the way to Exton or Paoli to catch Paoli/Thorndale.
I hope SEPTA brings back full service to the Trenton Line since there are so many trains in Trenton to & from NYC that could sync better with SEPTA for those that want to go to Philly without waiting 30 minutes to 2 hours for the next train.
Thanks for saying Philadelphia’s suburban commuter rail is the best in the USA. Since the center city tunnel was built it really made our system better. However it could be better with more service, especially off peak hours. The ability to transfer from transit service to commuter rail would also be a nice improvement.
"SEPTA Regional Rail" has the POTENTIAL to be the best system, but is way far from it. I say this as a civil engineer / project manager who worked for one of the northeast rail agencies for 2+ decades (I won't divulge which one).
The Positives: It has the "bones" of potential - the central city tunnel, an all-electrified system, using the same voltage/amperage, a well distributed system, not just a few big trunk lines (altho there are 3 that parallel / use the Amtrak lines).
On the Downside: The system is not really "Regional Rail" - Outside of the 3 Amtrak lines, the only ones that are in any way "regional" are West Trenton & Lansdale/Doylestown. The others are all Painfully short & don't even penetrate the major outlying suburbs. Many were cut back when the system went all-electric in the early 80's. The legacy Reading lines (& a smattering of the Pennsy lines) are still all low level platforms, requiring custom cars & painfully long boarding/ deboarding times, extensive staffing, & poor safety. There are no toilets on the trains, limiting the length of lines. The trains & stations are not patrolled properly, not secured at all, the "unhoused" are allowed complete & utter license to run amok, harass passengers, defecate where ever & whenever they want (see "no toilets on trains"), sleep / sit anywhere, no consequences. Many of the major stations, especially Suburban Station, are literally not passable by legit commuters, the entire facility reeks of urine & feces. Management has been a dumpster fire / inside joke / laughing stock of all the other agencies in the northeast for decades. Car procurement has been a major disaster of Epic proportions for decades, many of the fleets have been entirely unusable upon delivery. Maintenance facilities are inadequate, poorly designed & built, poorly managed, scattered amongst too many disparate sites. Rights of way / infrastructure also not properly maintained. Catenary systems & substations / etc allowed to deteriorate, out of date. So are signal systems. It's a Sad situation, & been so for decades. I've heard it's better recently, let's hope so. Oh yeah, there's literally Zero integration with other systems, even tho they all fall under the SEPTA umbrella (well OK PATCO doesn't, but still . . .)
Aren't they intending to reach out to Reading?
It's important that trains run during the day and late at night. Riders need to be able to rely on it in special cases to really habituate use. For instance, you need to pick your kid up from school in the middle of the day, or get drinks or dinner after work. If people have to plan specially to drive to make those kind of normal behaviors work, most people just don't make the train a normal part of their lives.
Also, consider how expensive it is to own a car... if someone needs to go places transit can't reliably take them, the car starts to consume the rest of their transit habits because there's a strong want to get use of their vehicle that costs thousands of dollars and requires significant upkeep (charging (EV), gas, cleaning).
I don't own a car right now, and it's liberating to not have to think about all that stuff anymore but I've realized that there are certain parts of my life I will avoid because it's hard to get there without a car. For example, visiting family is challenging when regional rail only runs every 1.5-2 hours on weekends and the express trains don't run.
The problem is not the trains, the problem is crime
@@zoomanx9661 where do you live? As a current resident of NYC and a former resident of Seattle and its suburbs, I can tell you from personal experience service frequency and ubiquity are far more important than crime, at least in the context of most of the US.
@@16randomcharacters I lived in New York in the 70s and 80s, and I am still a frequent visitor here. Trust me when I say, those bad days on the subways are coming back. Take the A train to Far Rockaway at night. Better yet, any of the IRT lines that go to the Bronx.
@@zoomanx9661ultimately, both frequent service and keeping crimes under control are both necessary to make transit popular.
One big problem with public transit in salt lake city is that so many of the trax or frontrunner stop are surrounded by nothing but car infrastructure, massive parking lots, and freeways etc.
Very true. That was the compromise of purchasing right of way from Union Pacific is that a lot of the Frontrunner ended up being hard to develop around. There is more development happening around the stations now, but having I-15 in the way does hamper development.The fact that the RSL stadium is not easy to access by either Trax or Frontrunner despite being right in the middle of both lines is also quite frustrating.
Secaucus Junction is such an engineering marvel that was a no-brainer and has helped so many. Designing such a massive station without disrupting the active Northeast Corridor and making it withstand the nearly constant vibration was such a challenge, but they took it head on. NJT definitely isn't perfect but with how much of the state you can travel to and from, the NJT system really does punches above its weight. As you mentioned, systems should be serving other big activity centers, and NJ Transit does that with having a station at the Meadowlands for games, EWR right on the NEC, and Atlantic City where the rail terminal is right at their convention center and of course close to the casinos.
And I'm not just talking about its trains for how it punches above its weight, but also its buses and light-rail. NJT buses are more than just commuters. Like there are NJT buses that exist as dedicated shopper services like the 85 between Hoboken and American Dream mall via Harmon Meadow in Secaucus and the 320 that goes between the PABT and Harmon Meadow. The 320 exists for two reasons, for those who park at the North Bergen Park & Ride and take the bus into NYC and those who live in Manhattan that want to shop at Walmart since Manhattan doesn't have one. Not to mention the River LINE acts as an interurban between Trenton and Camden and helped the smaller communities along the Delaware greatly.
By using the Trains and buses you can go from Cape May to Port Jervis NY. Pretty much from the bottom to the top of the state.
I live in Toms River, there's on and off conversation on building a train line from Freehold to Ocean County, not sure how far south they would have gone after Lakewood, Brick and Toms River. I grew up in Aberdeen/Matawan, lots of choices bus, train. I still remember from when I was a teenager the last North Jersey Coast line leaves Penn Station, seems it hasn't changed since the early 70's when I started using it. My biggest complaint is if I go to Pt. Pleasant to pick up the train to NYC it stops at every little town in Monmouth County, you can see the next station from where you are takes forever to get there. Take the bus, non stop Toms River to the Port Authority, takes 1.15 to 1.30 hours and 70 plus miles.
A pity passenger service isn't extended down the shore directly from Penn Station to Cape May reutilizing CNJ and Penn/Reading roadbeds, and NYC-Chicago on both the Lackawanna Cutoff and Southern Tier.
NJT, Metro and Amtrak could certainly do these projects with decent funding.
For good measure the Susquehanna & Western line, Lehigh & Hudson roadbeds, and frankly much of the NYO&W roadbeds ought to be reused for passenger rail as well
I think a video explaining NJ Transit would be great… It has examples of great (and not so great) suburban and sometimes rural transit lines.
NJ Transit needs to fix its NJCoast Line trains and late evening connections to the Main, Bergen, and Pascack Valley lines at Sec Junc
I second this. NJT is such an interesting system and one of the best US regional rail systems IMO.
I wish there was a train that connected all the NJ Transit lines. A "beltway line" where you could get from Bound brook to Morristown to Hackettstown to Ridgewood to Nanuet.
I will probably do a video eventually, just need to think about how I want to approach it!
I know this would not happen but a monorail over 287 would do that connect from the NJCL-NEC-RVL-Peapack-M/E-Booton_Main-Pasack-over the Tappan Zee-Hudson-Harlem and end at the New Haven/NEC@@hirampriggott1689
Even the LIRR takes people to other centers for activities like Stony Brook for college students, Belmont Park for the annual horserace or Mets-Willets Point for Mets games and the US Open. The importance of having an all-day service every day of the year cannot be stated enough. The NYC Subway is one of the few systems in the world like this, as well as PATH and even PATCO. Transit agencies need to remember that not everyone is home on Sundays, people wanna go places on Sundays too whether it's to church, errands, or to see a movie. And mid-day and evening services build rider confidence and overcome a lot of "what if..." objections like "What if I miss my train?", "What if I need to come in late?", or "What if I stay late for work?"
Even if they result in mostly empty trains at these off-peak hours, they boost peak hours commuter ridership just by existing, and they help prevent commuters from reverting to driving as soon as the traffic eases up again. And consistently good, well integrated regional services allow people to choose to give up a car completely, or to reduce the number of cars in their household.
The other big thing LIRR does is allows people out in Nassau and Suffoulk counties to get to NYC quickly while only needing to drive to the local station. The subway doesn't extend outside the 5 buroughs. MNR does the same for people living in Westchester county and the Hudson valley and the I95 corridor in CT at least up to New Haven. Anyone who has ever been to NYC knows you do anything you can to avoid driving in Manhattan.
@@mrvwbug4423yeah driving in Manhattan is not only difficult but stressful. I’m surprised people still willingly do it when there are so many other options.
And, hypothetically speaking, people who wanna hit the down and have at least A FEW DRINKS (not a couple; easily halfway hammered) but wouldn’t wanna pay well over $40 for a ONE WAY Uber ride while their car is parked either at an expensive enough lot, much less in a place where they’re far more likely to get it vandalized or broken into.
And in the right circumstances for that particular crowd, that time is well past 11pm or even Midnight; typically when the most “generous” agencies are starting to call it a night if they’re actually still out & about…
Have SOME overnight bus much less rail services primarily to KEEP excuses for a DUI at an absolute bare minimum. Even though there’s currently around 15,000 reasons AVERAGE within the US for someone to avoid a DUI.
also worth noting that an awful lot of the US only needs to build platforms and passing loops on existing tracks to enable service to run in huge numbers of medium and small suburban towns - although obviously the stumbling point here is how hard the US seems to find challenging the big railfreight firms
having networks like that is the core of what would make any HSR routes functional imo and the obsessesive focus on building just HSR and metros means such routes wont be as successful as they were in say, Japan, France or Spain
The freight railroads are completely opposed to Electrification and rather hostile to passenger service at all they won't do anything until the federal government forces
Indeed, additional tracks can also be added next to freight ones, the government needs to want it and create some pressure though
A lot of it is that citizens in this country think that paying for rail infrastructure is subsidizing a private company. Which isn't untrue per se, but it's not really subsidy when that money pays for extra service, and people are all too often misled into ignoring the latter half.
@@GintaPPE1000 It's also because people don't want anything "socialized" and fail to realize that driving is also a public service. US road infrastructure is taxpayer-funded (and has been underfunded for decades, which is why so much of it is falling apart). Few realize that it's not "public transit vs. private transit, it's cheap public transit (trains) vs. expensive public transit (cars).
Metrolink in Los Angeles has a very wide suburban footprint, with a wide variety of lines, one of which doesn't even go to downtown Los Angeles (plus the mutant ARROW system). The San Bernardino line is the only one that really has anything like hourly service, although along the LOSSAN corridor, if you combine the various Metrolink lines with Coaster and the Amtrak California Pacific Surfliner, there is very high service there as well.
The main problem with the Pacific surfliner picking up Metrolink's slack is the substantial price difference in addition to it serving half the stations on the line and not accepting each others tickets (except in the case of monthly passes). However, even coming from Europe, I have to say it is a fantastic service when it does run and I'm thrilled to be able to use it for free as a student.
RethinkNYC has an amazing proposal for through running. New transit hubs would be built in Secaucus and Sunnyside in addition to expanding Penn Station. It would cost a lot of money but would revolutionise regional rail in the NY metropolitan area
I really like their plan but they try too hard to make three separate systems work together. Imagine how much simpler it would be if NJT, LIRR, and MN were one unified system. I love the idea of the Port Morris station and laguardia airtrain though.
I actually prefer Alon's proposal: pedestrianobservations.com/2023/09/28/different-models-of-partial-through-running/
@@cjuice9039ReThinkNYC's goal to unify the three regional railroads together into one unified network called RUN (Regional Unified Network) centered around Old Penn Station rebuilt. We need it so badly.
Destroying Old Penn Station was one of the most heinous acts of public vandalism in history. We desperately need it back. God bless ReThinkNYC. They are doing a noble public service by trying to right this catastrophic wrong.
Italian rail operator is renewing its trains especially in the south.
The newest are the “Blues” which have triple power supply: diesel, batteries and with overhead power.
I think I may well make a video on them at some point!
As someone who lives in both Canada and Japan, I've been thinking for a while now that it would be great if North American commuter rail systems took some inspiration from those in Korea and Japan: smaller but much more frequent trains, which also allow for faster acceleration and deceleration while reaching similar speeds, and express and local trains, which would provide more stations to people living between currently existing stations. Oh yea and the trains have been electrified for over 100 years. I see that NYC has had trains from Kawasaki for the past 10 or so years which is nice. At least in Canada's case, even something like Paris' RER would be nice considering the trains are/were built by Alstom and Bombardier who have built much of Canada's more recent rolling stock. That could be one option Toronto could look into as part of GO Expansion.
EDIT: Forgot interoperability as rail and metro/rapid transit as another benefit.
Sounds like the trains of Denver and Philadelphia
I think what Australia, specifically Sydney, get right is influenced by their proximity to Asia. They are always taking inspiration from the likes of Hong Kong and Singapore. (At least finally they are catching up on it) The worst thing about Canadian transport development is it’s proximity and influence from the US imo
The template for good suburban rail would also benefit larger cities that have smaller metros within 6o miles. For example, connecting Cincinnati to Dayton or Cleveland to Akron/Canton would give people in the smaller cities better access to larger city amenities/jobs, and the people in the larger cities better access to lower cost housing.
My agency started a regional / commuter rail system that actually serves both functions in 2018. The "Hartford Line". It connects 3 medium cities - New Haven, Hartford, & Springfield MA. There are other services to connect to at both ends - Amtrak & Metro-North/Shoreline East at New Haven, Amtrak (& someday MBTA) in Springfield MA. It is used as both a commuter system, to get suburbanites in & out of the cities for work, & for regional rail, to connect the 3 medium cities with each other & the smaller cities / big towns along the line - Wallingford, Meriden, Berlin, Windsor, Windsor Locks. Soon to be added North Haven, Newington/West Hartford, & Enfield. Trains run in both directions at equal intervals all day.
It would help if service ran a bit later (ends at 11 pm), I could use it to attend concerts which typically end at 11 or midnight. Metro-North service ends just after midnight. This service has been fairly successful, especially non-commuter use, by folks who travel between all the cities/towns w/o having to use cars or buses. It has seen better bounce back post pandemic than the other lines in the area. Unfortunately, the line is not electrified, as is the shoreline Amtrak route. Double track has been restored & new stations have been built south of Hartford, & all that is being done north of Hartford now. New cars & loco's are being ordered, for now, hand me down equipment is being used (which isn't all that bad).
Yep, theres a huge mobility and economic development case for tying together regions with better rail. Theres a reason the worlds most economically important cities all have electric rail!
Philadelphia has a very good commuter rail.
Boston missed an excellent opportunity to regionalize its commuter rail system back in the 1980s and 90s when the State of Massachusetts used up the available space between North and South Stations and squandered its money on the Central Artery section of the Big Dig. Now it's kind of stuck running diesel locomotives pulling commuter rail trains into two disconnected terminals into the foreseeable future.
I still find it bizarre that those 2 terminals are not directly connected.
Nice touch of Jobii inserted at the end.
Maryland mentioned😆
Indeed it was!
Hello! I am from Denver and as a daily user of the bus and train system I have to say that it is actually quite decent! RTD is currently focusing on improving service frequency! I would also love to see another video going more into debth on the RTD System Optimisation Plan which is planned to be in full service by 2028! Anyways thanks for the video it was great!
Also… I completely agree with the negative sentiment about the ordering of old train designs although due to the light rails system current design it seems like it would be difficult but certainly not impossible!
I hope that VRE (northern VA) moves more towards regional rail and away from DC commuters. VRPA is improving the corridor to Richmond along I-95 and is purchasing right-of-ways in other parts of the state. Also looking at Saturday service. MARC should look into making, or purchasing, right-of-ways to make the 3 lines more like regional rail
I've lived near a MARC station for a few years now. It's the best way to get into DC from near BWI or Baltimore but only if you live near the station and work around their times. Seen plans for residences near the BWI Station come and die, meanwhile new townhomes pop up in woods elsewhere with just one link to ever-crowded highways and arterials. MD needs to be more stringent on where housing can be built so we can get actual density around all the MARC stops and then run trains on a more regular basis.
The DC area has huge potential for better regional rail service, I think the agencies really just need to better plan and integrate. You could even have some really nice through running!
Connecticut needs to restore electrification in some areas there are places along the Danbury Branch of Metro North where you can see the overhead structures but someone in the 1960s decided to pull the wires down because they thought for some unknown reason that diesel was better.
WOW! RMTransit is the first YT channel to CELEBRATE the USA as a useful example of how to BUILD MORE TRAINS (beyond CAHSR)!
Miles in Transit and Classy Whale are this same way
I appreciate the Philly love!
Budapest has great suburban railway lines, which connect to the outer ring of the city backbone transit lines (metro and tram), and go far out to reach the suburban parts of the Budapest metropolitan area. I would like to see a video on Budapest's great public transport network!
I formerly had one! Sometime in the future I am sure I will get back to Budapest!
Honestly, I wish people in places like Houston and San Antonio would watch this video as areas like the Katy freeway would have benefitted like crazy from something like this. Have car lanes for those going to individual places and trains for those going in mass to areas like downtown Houston, downtown San Antonio, or Galveston.
Imagine if NY still had the New York Central's Putnam division, and the New York, Westchester & Boston Railway, apparently at one point in time there was a proposed plan to unify all of this - which'd make for a heck of an interesting rail infrastructure in the suburbs of NY at the very least.
The latter is now the Dyre Av line of the subway, but I feel like you probably already knew that
@@PhilliesNostalgia But Imagine if the Dyre Av line extended all the way to White Plains.
@@PhilliesNostalgia Eeyup! 😁
Whats even more exciting to me is how much is possible for the future! Imagine NYC with through running regional rail!
@@RMTransitAn RER’ish system would be transformative for New York, I think. Especially looking at what it did for the ‘island’ of Ilse de France and its surroundings and its parallel Manhattan and its burrows and Jersey.
One hurdle to regional rail we're dealing with in Virginia is the state almost compulsively punting every future rail improvement beyond the current VRE and Metro footprint to Amtrak - which then is going to become infrequently served and lightly used because it's inconvenient (and often late to boot). We need to be heavily investing in VRE expansion across the state, adding commuter rail in the Richmond area and expanding frequency to at least hourly in both directions in the DC area.
If people can't rely on rail to get them where they need to go when they need to go there, they're just going to jump in the car, making the investment in rail almost pointless. We need to do better here.
While I agree with you on VRE expansion (why is the DC metro being sent to suburbs 20 miles away?), I'm pretty sure the expansion of the long bridge into DC is being done to get hourly service going. The state is spending over $3 billion on it, and if that doesn't get hourly service to DC then that was definitely a failed project.
The idea of extending NEC electrification South through Virginia is something I think a lot about - huge opportunity there!
Absolutely VA rail is horrible. When I moved to DC I thought about trying to go carless, but one of the deciding factors against that was I needed to be able to get back to Hampton Roads/Norfolk on the weekends. Only Amtrak can succeed in making a 3 hour drive into a 5+ hour train trip, cost 2-3x the price of gas and with the last train leaving Norfolk at 12PM on Sunday. And for those who don't live in VA, while the Hampton Roads area has a pop of about 1.7M and there is considerable travel between the two due to VA beach as vacation spot in the summer and the massive number of military, defense sector, and other federal government jobs in the area resulting in frequently taking jobs/assignments in one area or but not moving the family from the other and communing home on weekends, so there should be a significant number of people that would have reason to use the service. It shouldn't be that hard to connects the I-95/64 corridor (DC-Richmond-Hampton Roads) with a cost effective and reliable rail link.
And I'll add that with the new Silver Line Metro expansions to Dulles Intl Airport, while love not having to drive or take a $75+ uber to the airport, the fact that it doesn't start running until after 7AM on weekends for a trip that takes at least an hour on the metro with the last train at close to 11PM leaving Dulles for the city is far from ideal, especially if you are trying to make cross country flights.
@@niteflite1287 The Hampton Roads rail service is designed with pretty much the opposite of your travel pattern in mind: people who live there but have jobs upstate, or people who live there and are going upstate (including to DC) for a day/weekend trip. The ridership on the trains despite their schedule also suggests they're doing pretty well: Newport News and Norfolk saw about 200.4k riders in FY2022, which is about 12.6% of total Virginia ridership on 13.5% of the services Amtrak runs in the state. By comparison, the Richmond area generated 24% of Amtrak trips in FY2022 despite being served by 95% of the services run through Virginia, and Alexandria generated 13.4%.
Not that the service can't be improved, and IMO the current Rail in Virginia plan focuses too much on DC-Richmond, as well as setting up a future corridor to Raleigh, and not enough on Hampton Roads. But the idea that the existing service doesn't work or is unpopular just straight-up doesn't hold water.
@@RMTransit Electrification of the corridor is not possible without new tunnels underneath DC. The loading gauge there if you added wires would be even smaller than the current Hudson and East River tunnels in New York - in other words, impassable to anything Amtrak has or plans to buy, since the New York tunnels set the current system-wide loading gauge standard for locomotives and single-level cars.
Also, raising the speed at which trains negotiate slow points like switches (especially in and out of sidings, as has CSX insisted Virginia move their platforms off the main line if they want level boarding) or the elevated line through Richmond downtown is a much more cost-effective way to slash journey times than boosting the top speed or acceleration of the trains via electrification. If electric trains that can do 150MPH+ are still having to negotiate switches at 45MPH (which they will need to in order to dodge slower traffic), then that speed isn't being used - see the current service patterns for the Acela Express, especially between Trenton and New Haven. Moreover, Airo sets can still reach 125MPH on diesel power - even the longest ones, the 7-car "Type B2" set, have a similar power:weight ratio to the original 9-car HST - and historically going much faster than that has required dedicated right-of-ways anyhow.
Thanks for the Denver shout out! I’d love a video digging into why Denver keeps ordering old trains. Also, RTD has been doing some focus groups about a NW rail line (Denver-Boulder-Longmont) that was part of FastTracks and stalled a few years ago, it would be great to get your perspective on their proposed service. It looks like there is also positive movement on Front Range Rail, and the RTD planners I have spoken to suggested the NW rail line might be held until they can use Front Range Rail tracks. Great video!
A lot of Japanese suburban lines have upgraded over the years starting as streetcar lines and slowly evolving into fully separated express lines.
Could the same happen in e.g. LA where the insanely long A line gradually upgrades into a true regional rail line with longer, faster trains? What would that look like?
MARC is running diesel trains because Amtrak said they didn’t want to repair the electric ones anymore - but then MARC chose to not buy new EMUs. Big failure
MARC is planning to use electric engines on the Penn line because diesels will not be allowed in the new tunnel in Baltimore.
@@Munchabunch56that’s actually amazing. It’s sad that we need to have things forced into companies like that. Wish the US had more projects like Denver has with huge plans and lots of regional rail. But everyone can dream.
They can always choose to buy EMUs, and there are some great ones these days . . .
Boston has basically given up on the through-running city-center tunnel, though it's something that has been considered and occasionally promised for decades. It's never going to happen, for the next 100 years at least.
So what we can do *without* that?
Giving Septa it's flowers? I'm here for it.
This was a great video as always! Thanks for touching on the Silver Line (even though it's taking years), I really think that going with Stadler DMUs was a great choice in the start, and since the Stadlers are built for quick upgrade to electrification, maybe we'll see the Silver Line electrified once ridership prevails.
Also a quick side note, if you ever plan to do a video on Dallas, I've got TONS of footage I'm more than welcome to let you use for free.
Thanks for offering! I agree the Silver Line is really exciting!
I bet the SL will be a huge game changer, as it will allow quicker, more direct access from the northern suburbs to the airport and Tarrant/Denton counties, as opposed to having to take the long way through downtown or transfer to a bus.
@@crowmob-yo6ry precisely. The trip from Parker Road to DFW is almost three hours long, and even longer from other corners of the system. Silver line will speed up this travel by several orders of magnitude and give many northern parts of Dallas much-needed transit!
"In the reasonable measurement system."
I like that, I like that a lot.
It could involve converting the style of Commuter Rails to allow S-bahn type service
That's why I bring up Philly's City Centre tunnel!
NEW JERSEY SWEEP!!!!
A great state
@@RMTransitsaid no one ever!
New Jersey Transit definitely deserves its own video.
BuT ThErEs nO HoPe foR aMeRiCa JUst MoVe To hOlLaNd!1!1!1!1
There is a lot of suburban rail in India too.
Some of the busiest suburban rail systems in the world, too.
What are your thoughts about Atlanta’s MARTA? It’d be a good video to consider. I recently found your videos and they are really good.
Nice vid! I also think you should do one about stadiums. Maybe compare a stadium that has great transit and one that needs a big time improvement.
I live in an area of New Jersey that has rail service through NJTransit, but it doesn't run on weekends (we also have zero bus service around here). That makes it basically useless for me unless I have a free day during the week (which I usually don't). I wish it ran more frequently. When I take NJTransit I love it, though.
That's many peoples complaint with NJT. It's not frequent enough. Even during evening rush hour you'll have just one train an hour going a certain route. If you miss your train you have to just wait an entire hour after you have already finished work. And yes, don't even get me started on the weekends. Luckily I live close to PATH if I'm going into the city. Every 20 minutes is better but still far off from much better services around the world.
I've never heard of the idea of requiring freight companies to allow parallel construction in their right-of-ways. That would be such a smart policy to implement, rather than wrestling with them for track capacity.
If you're looking for a sunny holiday over the winter break that you can also use for a video, maybe consider Santo Domingo. Despite only opening in 2008 and only having two lines, the SD Metro has quickly become one of the most heavily utilised Metro systems in the Americas with an annual ridership of 61 million.
I am planning a video on it! Thank you!
Yes! Thank you! I’ve been shouting about this for a decade! All of these sprawling Midwestern and Southwestern cities spending billions of dollars on downtown rapid transit (usually light rail), but then complain about low ridership because who is going to drive all the way downtown, then park, then take the light rail for three blocks? Hell, Detroit did this way back in the 80’s with the peoplemover (and Vancouver proved that the problem wasn’t that the technology was a gadgetbahn).
Especially since most of these metro areas already have rail lines crisscrossing them, which makes the capital costs much less than building a new metro system. (Of course, there are issues with single-tracking and fright-ownership, but that’s a different conversation).
Another important aspect is creating suburban rail systems that allow for cross-suburb trips. Not everyone is commuting to downtown every trip, especially in this post-COVID world. That’s my biggest complaint with GO’s expansion in Toronto. It’s awesome what they are doing to increase bi-directional all day all week service, but it is still a radial system. We need orbital routes as well!
(Looks at Adelaide's lack of rail expansion 😔)
It's not happening in all of Australia.
Gawler Line electrification!
Take LA Metro link to/from work every day except when I'm visiting Grandma after work. I love the service compared to driving, but it needs hourly trains that run later than 8...
With its numerous freight rail lines, regional passenger service would seem a good fit for Houston. For example, UP has lines running from Conroe to Galveston past Intercontinental Airport, The Woodlands, Downtown, and the NASA areas.
Never hear of Chicago! Metra has many lines and hourly service on most outside of rush hours
With its infamous sprawl, suburban trains should be the focus of public transportation in the US. Most people in the US live in car-centric suburbs, these trains should be the first alternative to the car to move across the metro areas.
Being from NY we crap on the MTA but the LIRR is amazing when you think about it.
Thank you for pointing out some of the things the U.S. does well. We need to expand these things. I wish Philly had more subway or grade separated service in the city. The trolleys and buses are stuck in the congestion to the point that walking is often faster for distances under 2 miles.
The Marc Penn line does a really great job so far. They’re focusing on extending their services to Philly via Wilmington and 30th St station but they should focus on extending service on the Brunswick line, and Camden lines and adding a line line or two to service southern Maryland
Salt Lake City needs to do this, we already have a great backbone (FrontRunner). Now they need to build upon that! We need better connections to that backbone. It all starts with a better heart! Salt Lake City needs the Rio Grande Plan, if you dont know what it is look it up. That being said its putting all the trains that move through downtown into a train box (tunnel) under the Old Rio Grande Train Station and reactivating the station because Salt Lake Central is just a concrete platform.
Another city that needs regional rail is Columbus Ohio. There is no excuse to be such a big city and have ZERO rail.
Columbus has frustrated me to no end. I regularly travel to see my partner in Cleveland and both of us would be thrilled to have a train running between the two cities. The lack of protected bike lanes in Cbus has also been dispiriting over the years. Looking forward to moving to Cleveland.
As much as the RGP is good, it also doesn't need to happen for service to get way better! Both is obviously ideal though!
@@RMTransit I can understand that. The RGP makes other improvements other than service improvements. It does allow for more expansive services in the future. It also eliminates four grade crossings through downtown.
From watching a lot of your videos it seems that grade separation is usually a way to improve transit times and safety. That is one of the big wins for the RGP.
Also love the abbreviation I am going to bring that to the group Thursday.
Denver RTD has a plan to modernize the light rail rolling stock however they have not secured the funding to do so. Apparently they are having a harder time finding parts for the existing sets which was the motivating factor in this change.
You should do an LIRR explainer! It’s one of the best and most interesting suburban rail services in the USA.
Here in Dallas we need density near stations and luckily they are working on it by getting rid of some parking lots. Also they need to add new cities dart for expansion. But that doesn't seems to be in the works
Can't force cities to join, and most of them don't want to pay the DART tax. I think there's long term plans for a rail corridor between Frisco and Irving though.
The D2 cancellation is also an opportunity to make existing service better.
@@garybacon659 agree but there are some easy extensions where they own the ROW or track that is under used silver line to Wylie north and cleburne south... red line to cedar Hill. Also some how getting to Arlington with the stadiums. But current CEO said no more expansion which is a mistake. Imo
I would argue good feeder service is more important!
As far as “cooperation with Amtrak” goes, Amtrak and the federal governments intercity grant and rail expansion program is one of the last hopes RTD will have for extending commuter rail to Boulder
RTD has lost a lot of faith from people who were promised the Boulder train. In truth the costs are just very high compared to the funding for it but that was never explained to voters. If Amtrak operates and makes investment to the route and RTD piggybacks that may help them gain voters trust again
I stand by that the real issue is the rail freight companies. Right of ways are by far the most expensive part of rail, and right now those companies can basically name any arbitrarily high price for its use. There are some legal protections for Amtrak's use of those lines, but no such thing exists for regional transit services.
Using Amtrak is a ridiculous workaround when we need to completely upend the system that lets freight companies put the squeeze on cities and states like this. Nationalise the rail network and make the freight carriers lease rail time on a level playing field with everyone else.
Wish rtd could hire you! Love the insight as always
I appreciate your enthusiasm, Reece, but don't forget things that need to be mentioned regarding suburban rail in the U.S.:
1. The sheer lack of political will.
2. Money. In Boston, there has been talk of finally connecting North and South Stations a la Philadelphia or Melbourne, Australia. That will be super expensive and if it took this long for the Gateway Tunnel project in NY/NJ to get funds for a NECESSARY piece of infrastructure, I don't see Boston getting their mid-city tunnel.
3. Greed. The freight operators would likely prefer non-medicated castration than to give up more of their trackage to passenger rail. If they somehow did this without painful surgery, expect fare hikes.
4. Saving on gas emissions is not a priority for the federal government, nor is it a great selling point for many Americans. While major cities like LA, Chicago, and DC would absolutely benefit from electric trainsets, none except for two lines in Chicago do this.
Does Toronto have frequent service on their suburban passenger lines? (At least one train per direction each hour?) The Metro-North Hudson line in NY runs rather frequently for commuter rail and it isn't electrified past Croton-on-Harmon station. Using available non-electrified infrastructure first to capacity may go a long way in convincing the power-brokers that there is a market (and consumer desire) to upgrade.
You make some great points. I especially liked the idea that cross city tunnels are important for achieving good frequencies
Probably your most important video yet! Suburban rail is the mode that America needs the most (the fact that the busiest roads in America are suburban freeways and the fact that the busiest rail lines and train stations in the world are suburban lines and stations around Tokyo can tell you that much)
I admit when I went into this video with the title, I was imagining something more like the services that V/Line runs between cities. But, you sorta-kinda did touch on that anyway. :D
I'm glad to see this sort of thing re-growing in North America. It really was something that was missing.
Theres a lot of services already - but theres huge potential for more!
every time one of the approximately two (?!) electric locomotives rolls in for my MARC commute i get giddy
my brother in law worked in Boeing in 2002. I told him, why rhey don’t build trains also, that should be a huge market in the US. He did not pay to much attention to my idea.
Lol, Denver's RTD has a lot of issues... I will say that people still use it because it's actually there (unlike many other US cities I can think of) and it's somewhat convenient. But the fact that it takes 60 minutes by rail for a 30 minute drive and the trains are unpredictable is sad. Plus they constantly make poor decisions, like cutting lines, cutting trains, and removing transit between Empower Field and the train station is a bit ridiculous. Too bad RTD can't hire you as a consultant! 🤣 Great video man! Spot on.
Nice one
Secaucus Junction has largely improved NJ Transit by connecting many lines. Now I can get to Manhattan from Ridgewood without having to go all the way into Hoboken to get a PATH train.
What about the Long Island Railroad?
Excellent One!
Thank you!
I love Rm transit videos ,when he made a video about my country , Singapore
More videos on Singapore are coming!
@@RMTransit yay!
I think it would be interesting to hear about regional bus. Not everyone's favorite, but can be spun up even quicker.
Video coming on this topic Novemberish
"Basically every major city in the country has one or two lines" of light rail... *Looks angrily out my window in the direction of Columbus city hall*
This is what I want for Western New York. We're still battling NIMBYs who don't want an above ground expansion of a light rail line that should have had one 40 years ago and a lot of people really believe that we don't need a regional/commuter rail system because of cars and infrequent bus service. 🤦🏾♀️ My concern is for the people who live in the suburbs but aren't middle class, especially youth and elderly folks. A huge number of people would benefit from being able to get to Buffalo and regional rail would really change things. One big hurdle is that transit hubs don't exist in many underserved communities and even having a single rail station would perhaps lead people's minds towards thinking about it. Oh and many old rail right of ways and old street car infrastructure has been destroyed, cut off from the network, or repurposed.
I wish the commuter tax funds would be used to fund useful service extensions into NJ, like overnight service.
:23 New Brunswick NJ, not too far from my home. Ride NJT commuter rail regularly for the past 20 years.
1:43 Metuchen NJ (NEC also) is the optimal transit village model here in NJ.
Hell yeah Philly rules man. Seriously though the Center City Commuter Connection tunnel puts SEPTA's infrastructure so far ahead of so much of the continent when it comes to Regional Rail. We have it pretty good here.
Well said Reece. The US has some great options if they choose to value metro rail more highly.
I would say even moreso suburban / regional rail!
7:38 "The reasonable measurement system"! Yesss!!!
3:21 Been there. Done that. 3:11 SEPTA, too, though I don't know THIS particular station.
8:16 rode the light rail line in Newark, NJ, too, twice in 2000. 9:06 and here many times.
Thanks!
Thank you!
I was surprised to see Amtrak let a freight railway (CPKC) run a couple of their trains around Chicago. I imagine it's just adding a train supervisor for those trains in the traffic control office. I wonder what the money is in it for the railway. Containers don't beat up infrastructure like heavy haul though.
At one point Houston was actually going to have a regional system like this in the 90s and 2000s, but its transportation funding kept getting cut and trimmed in favor of highways expansions.
Philly seems to knock it out of the park compared to the rest of the U.S. when it comes to to transit, and other cool things I guess.
They have some of the most recognizable state culture in Pennsylvania, with their hoagies and “go birds” and all that. I guess it’s also a pretty damn historical city, too. More power to them.
In my county in Ohio, other than an Amtrak station in the county seat, the only passenger rail in the county is a scenic steam engine that makes 3 round trips from one end of the county to the other and back again in a day. It doesn’t go very fast as it takes from 10 am to 5 pm to make the three round trips. All other public transport in the county is by bus and most of the county bus lines run one bus every half hour. That is what our county calls a “metro” system.
And let me guess … The buses are empty most of the time.
0:02 speaking of City CZcams, I've seen that aerial stock footage many times at this point 😂
So... What I'm hearing is that suburban rail could be pretty darn good in the US, and if the best aspects from different existing suburban rail services around the country were all implemented in a single system, that system would be a reasonable one to compare with suburban rail in other parts of the word?
Yes.
I think the best way to make Suburban rail viable in the US would be to roll out a lot more of the Culdesac style developments. If we simply just boost ridership a ton by putting a lot of car-lite households in the parking lots and industrial areas which are often near existing routes. we can easily justify expanded service.
Frankly the best thing Denver has ever done with its transit is the A line commuter train, even at its 80mph speed (the silverliner V can do 100mph but the RTD system has a max speed of 80) it's generally much faster than driving on I-70 or Pena Blvd. That should have been built when DIA was first built but better late than never. The rest of RTD's train system is a mixed bag. The G line got NIMBYd long before it ever reached Golden, and the south half of Denver still has the typically slow AF light rail trains, especially the comically slow R line which trundles its way through Aurora like a trolley but only stops at stations next to I-225 haha. Then there's the B line, which currently is a 1 stop commuter line that is supposed to eventually reach Boulder ... in 2040, but will apparently only be a 3 train a day diesel served line operating on BNSF ROW with no priority over freight. The B line should've been a heavy commuter line running in the US36 ROW.
As far as building quickly, LA Metrolink proved that the US can do that, nearly their whole network was built in 3 years. That expediency is also why they opted for diesel, faster to build when you don't have to string catenary cable and power infrastructure or lay down 3rd rail. It's also why some of their lines take some sub-optimal routing that keeps speeds down, i.e. the Antelope Valley line was routed over a mountain pass in a way that made for the easiest tunnel construction, but forces the train onto very twisty 25-30mph track and steep grades (another reason why they went with the EMD F125 over the Siemens Charger, the EMD is the most powerful diesel passenger locomotive in service anywhere)
Thank you for laying this all out in such a sensible and clear format. I have been arguing and pushing these points for years, and it's so hard to get even sustainability/transit expansion/transportation equality advocates on board at times, let alone politicians or the general public. And as you said in that other video, bad transit is almost as bad as none at all, and many folks have been burned by poor policy and nearsighted budget choices on the state, regional, and local level. Well past time to help people (including those running the transit agencies!) see the possibilities outside of the current models.
You can get from Union Station on the MARC train to the BWI airport on an express train that makes only 1 stop between them in 25 min. For $8, I believe. Hard to beat
The answer is in the thumbail: More Arrow III's = regional rail solved. Long live the woodgrain age!
and the oval windows too!
@@hirampriggott1689 oh for sure, and everything else about them from the bell when the doors close to the stainless exterior to the acceleration and deceleration noises and the diaphragm-less vestibules where the cab ends meet and 60mph through the North River Tunnels feels like 160mph because of the wind. But I call out the woodgrain specifically because the woodgrain age is the world I was born into, when TVs and air conditioners and even my grandmother’s desktop pencil sharpener had a picture of wood on them. 5 years ago I moved into an office that had fake wood paneling and the facilities manager was shocked when I asked him not to have it painted over. It’s my little ‘80s kid sanctuary.
I'm not huge on the arrows, but I will say they have grown on me!
"Reasonable Measurement System". I will refer to Metric as "RMS" now. :D
Metra has converted the UP North line to a regional rail system with trains operating on a memory schedule. From Chicago to Winnetka, trains run every 30 minutes. North of Winnetka, trains run every hour. The UP North line has rebounded the best from the Covid-19 pandemic. But ridership is still down from before Covid hit. Now, Metra is going to expand the regional rail concept to most of its commuter lines.
denver's a line was also as slow as 15 mph in some sections last i was there
One thing to note about MARC's electric operations: they abandoned the plan to use diesels under wire permanently, but they just have no timeline for returning their HHP-8s to service because those things are horribly unreliable. They've been tinkering with the pilot unit for nearly 6 years and only got it fully-sorted recently, with a second joining it sometime in the last couple years, so diesels need to take up most of the slack on the Penn Line because the AEM-7s they also used are too old to keep in service. Might still be the odd diesel-powered Penn Line train eventually, but I think the biggest red flag this raises is potential issues with Amtrak's ACS-64s that we don't hear about, since MARC opted to rebuild known lemons instead of replacing them.
If the ACS-64 had issues then it would be constantly out of service & You’ll Constantly see diesel trains on the NEC
Hey Reece, I was wondering what you think about the Chicago Transit authority decreasing train frequencies on the brown and Red limes
I am writing a series on Chicago and Toronto which you might find interesting, I will talk about the state of things on the CTA: reecemartin.substack.com/p/a-tale-of-two-cities-toronto-and
@@RMTransitthanks Reese, from Chicago.
Ngl, I wouldn't exactly call NJ Transit a "model for how railroads should run". Sure, the way it connects New York and Philly's own networks is fantastic. But its rolling stock and isolated ticketing system are ancient. It's trains are almost always late. It's network literally being split in half between north and south Jersey, with a tendency to remove both stops and entire light and heavy rail branch lines just consolidate traffic. And when they do want to add new lines to connect New York to high traffic locations in New Jersey, NJ Transit will INSIST on maintaining low frequency and/or isolated lines to connect to their network rather than just extending the PATH out to them instead (looking at you Meadowlands branch line and Newark Air Train).
In all honesty NJ Transit does have a lot of good ideas, and its far better than having no rail lines at all. But still, it could be SIGNIFICANTLY better than it is now