Woodturners Journal: Eliminating Tool Marks and Tear Out
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- čas přidán 3. 12. 2017
- Jerrod goes through the technique of using a Bowl Scraper in order to eliminate the tool marks and tear out in a piece of wood.
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Carter & Son Toolworks 1 Inch Bowl Scraper for the Woodworking Lathe. amzn.to/2GQm4b1 - Jak na to + styl
Jerrod, thank you for this video. I am a beginner turner and need all the help I can get and you have helped tremendously. Thanks again and happy turning.
Best tutorial I have ever seen on tool marks. Felt like you were in my shop with me. Thought I was finished with my project and when I started to put on the finishing coat, tool marks jumped out and have been driving me crazy. My only scraper is one from Harbor Freight (still building my tool collection)and it does more damage than help because it has edges which catch leading to tear outs. Been wanting to buy new scraper anyway. Just did. Very helpful video. 😊
My opinion would be to save and start chipping away at getting nice chisels. If your having issues getting a perfect finish, I'd start with a buying a nice bowl scraper. Next I would definitely get a nice bowl gouge and then keep going from there. Cheap tools are great to get started, but life gets easier and easier with better tools. Good luck.
Lol when you talked about putting finish on and then seeing the tear out and having to start over, you described the situation that made me do this search lol
Brads Workbench Yeah. I just got done telling someone else in my group, to do it right, you need to start the sanding process over. I hope the video helped.
Same. Padauk coin bowl. 🤣🤣🤣
I watched your video and tried it with a small scraper I got given to me and what a difference. I ordered 2 one inch capers similar to what you have, should be here tomorrow. Thank you for the great tip and video. Paul from Ladysmith, BC Canada on Vancouver Island.
Hello Jerrod as usual perfect work thank you so much. Amazing and stunning.
I am new at this and this is the best video on tool marks and tare outs, I just spent 2 hours on sanding because of the tool marks. Thank you.
Thank you. I appreciate that. Hopefully, by the beginning of next year, there will be more videos to come.
Jerrod, may you have a better New Yr. I have thoroughly enjoyed all your videos and being a member of WOODTURNERS JOURNAL. SAFE TURNING, JOHN
John Wallace Thank you very much. That means a lot. Happy New Year.
Very nice job and the wood is maple thank you for sharing 👍🏼
Thank you so much! I've been trying to turn a mostly dry Rainbow Cottonwood bowl. The grain is beautiful, but the wood tears out worse than anything i've turned so far by far. Nothing I tried seemed to do anything, most seemed to make it worse. Your technique is the only thing so far that seems to be fixing the issue. Can't say how much I appreciate you taking the time to share this tilted scraper technique.
Jon Rista Thank you very much. I'm really happy I could help. Keep up the good work.
I’ve done a few bowls and have been unhappy with the finishing, especially with the end grain. This video is exactly what I’ve been looking for to help with the finishing. I can’t wait to try the technique. Very well explained. Thanks for your help!
karl petersen Thank you. I hope it helps.
Wow, I've been having such bad issues with tear out lately and I came across the video from a google search and I'm glad I did! That bowl scraper looks to be about 1-1/4"? I'm definitely going to get one ASAP, or might turn my square bottom scraper into one of these. Thank you so much for the video, really helped me as I'm a very new wood turner and started getting very frustrated and about to give up! Great video, thanks again!
So happy I stumbled upon this video and your channel as I'm a beginner and have been struggling with these issues! Looking forward to more of your videos!
Jackie Chapman Thank you very much. I'm glad you like them. More are coming.
You are getting it!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU do it the way it feels good to you.
Sam P Lol. Thank you.
Great video. The scraper really does help. Great shirt as well! RIP Biggie.
Ken Drury Thank you.
Good job Jerrod. I'm new at this and you're info helped me a bunch. Thank you.
harmonicamans You're welcome and thanks for watching.
Sorry cont’ I wasn’t using it with a 30 to 45 degree angle. It’s amazing how much time it saved me from sanding. Thank you for your presentation. Good teaching. Again thanks!
Thank you so much for making and sharing this. Some great tips in here!
RDM Woodturning Thank you. I'm glad it helped you. Thank you for watching.
Jerrod I am a new woodturner and I just finished my second bowl. Just subscribed to your channel and your video is spot on for the issues I am having. Thank you
Scott Shaw Thank you Scott. I'm glad it helped.
Hi
Thanks for your demo, I am a new turner and having problems with end grain breakout so I will give your technique a try
Michael
Malvern Michael Thank you for watching. Give it a try. It was shown to me and the finish is truly amazing because of it.
Thank you for showing the use of this tool
Very informative and interesting. Thank you so much for sharing.
You are the man Jared
Hi Jerrod,
As a newbie at woodturning your video was spot on. It gave me the technique I need, thank you.
Andrew Balfour Im glad the video helped. Keep turning.
Thank god some good advice on how to remove tool marks I have only been turning a short while & I was trying everything my bowl was getting smaller & smaller & my shaving pile was getting bigger & bigger easy to follow your video & thank you for making & sharing your work
Regards
Steve UK London
Thanks for the excellent instruction. I just started turning on March 6th, can’t get the tool marks out and this is great info. I just received my bowl scraper by UPS yesterday. I have also seen a negative rake scraper used and this SEEMS to this newbie to be similar
peddoctex Thank you. I hope it helped.
Jerrod, thanks for the video. I think you just solved my problem. I'm 73 and started back turning after a 4 year layoff. I never did get the use of a bowl gouge down, but carbide tools get me through. After using the carbide tools for roughing, I normally only use scapes to finish up. The round tiped scrape is my go to tool. However, when I am just about finished and every thing is going well on the inside, I get catches even with a sharp tool. I can see from your video where I am going wrong. I can't wait toi try this tomorrow. Thanks again.
Capt Mike That is great!!! I hope it works. Please let me know.
You are a teacher and a creator and also loyal to your work
Thank you very much.
Very nice. I've been doing this flat and you are so correct it digs in.
I'm glad I could help you. Thank you.
nice video. i am doing what you demonstrated since a few years but not with a scraper but with a carbide cutter lying at an angle of 45 degree (self made). i understood this when i sow a r. sorby tool with round cutters and 45 degr. posithion. very nice you show it. sorry for my bad english
alfredo leiser All is good. Thank you for sharing and thank you for watching.
Thank you for your great explanation on how to use the round scraper. 👍🏽
Thank you for watching.
Ya'll keep putting out these great videos please. How else would I ever become a true wood turner without messing up more wood than the forrest grows,, LOL. You just helped me out more than you know, thanks...... I've only been turning close to 3 yrs so you can imagine the mistakes I've made. Again thanks for great advice.
james moore That really is great to hear. I appreciate it and thank you.
@@Woodturnersjournal 9/2/14, doctor said lung cancer, said "I give you about 90 days". I entered chemo and radiation treatment, lived the hell, survived with Gods grace. Cancer is COMPLETLY gone. I haven't recovered from all the evils of the treatment though, currantly in a forced retirement so I've turned to my little 12X16 backyard woodcraft shop. Scrolled for approx 25 yrs, added a 8X12mini lathe 3yrs back and the scroll saw now gets some much needed rest, I've been bit by the turnners bug, LOL. I bought a 10X18 lathe last month and ordered a chuck for it yesterday. Been doing ornaments but wanting to expand (learning and knowledge). I'm up for the challenge and ready for the journey! Thanks again.....
Hi Jerrod, Good video! Back when I first started turning, That was my biggest frustration. Just as you said, the marks would mysteriously appear when finish was applied. I had purchased a cheap bowl scraper but never really used it. Once I realized just how well it worked, it became one of my go to tools. I use it on most projects. I still haven't perfected "all" of my end grain tear out but the remaining areas are near the center where the surface speed is so slow. If hard woods are "really" dry I have more issues. I've seen one homemade carbide cutter tool that has the insert attached at a 45 degree angle for just that reason. I'm going to try to make one some day when I have the time. Thanks and good to see you again.
Yeah. For new turners it can get really frustrating and like I said, I have noticed it on many people's finished product. I hope this video finds them and it helps. Thanks.
Jerrod, I find a negative rake scraper is easier to control as it can rest flat on tool rest and it's near impossible to get a catch.
I will need to try one sometime.
great information and technique
Thanks jerrod a great demo now I understand tear out.
dakie mike Thank you.
thanks Jerrod, I have that small scraper you showed and your right it absolutely stinks.
Great info and this will really help me. Thanks so much!
Thank you.
Thanks. Very nice bowl.
Good Demo and yes you can’t sand out tool marks or tear outs Ur finish will surely show ur tool marks. A round nose scraper is a must and u need a burr on the nose and I aways knock off the old burr each time I got to the grinder to sharpen up
Thanks for the excellent video. I am new to turning. I purchased a decent but not great negative rake scraper. This has helped a lot, but not completely solved my tool mark tear out problems. It looks like you have a high end heavy scraper. That will be my next purchase. I think a heavy quality scraper will be the solution, but many turners are going with negative rakes. They claim to be safer and more forgiving on the bowls.
Bill K I love the bowl scraper. But not sure about the negative rake scraper. I know it's more like a skew which I feel may limit what you can use it on.
Thank you for this video, helped with an issue i have been having
Thanks for the tips and it helped out although I have a half inch model scraper and was tough
Robert Ferris I'm glad it helped. Thank you for letting me know and thanks for watching.
Luckily I saw this video after buying a set of relatively cheap turning chisels. It included a scew ? chisel but no scraper. What to do? Being a disabled pensioner price was a high priority as money is really tight. The solution I purchased several old farriers rasps. Rather than grinding off the extremely sharp faces of the tool I simply mixed up some epoxy resin and glued thin perspex sheet over both sides. I then ground the end into the same shape as you were showing. I tuned up a few handles for the various sizes, the largest handle being 18" to cope with the largest and heaviest rasp/scraper. Most high quality 1" to 11/2" scrapers would cost me up to £60.00. I made four scrapers for a rough total of £18.00.
I should have mentioned that these old rasps are really hard steel thus ideal for turning uses. Thanks Jerrod.
Alan Barbour Well thank you. That all sounds like a great solution when on a budget. Well done.
Hi Jerrod. I really appreciate you taking your time to make and post these videos. People like me who cannot afford school learn so much from guys and girls like you A heart attack turned me from an automotive technician to wood worker and I want to be one of those guys who moved up from a good turner to a great turner. I started Wood Inspirations and Design LLC maybe you could give me a pointer or two on what I could do to achieve greatness
Robert Ray Thank you very much and I'm sorry to hear about your heart attach. Do you have a website I can check out or pictures so I can see were you are at with your skill level?. I'd love to help you out.
Thanks for the vid. Tear out is very frustrating. I will have to perfect shear scraping.
Started turning about 3 months ago, happy with my profiles and wood selection, frustrated however with a couple of tool marks here and there. I hope you're right about this tool, I'll buy it, but I'm also worried that the chuck is slipping ever so slightly during scraping and finishing and that the tool marks are from going off "true". Thanks for taking the time to pass on the advice tho.
I do not like sitting there sanding all day. I have that bowl scraper but I haven't been using it because it didn't seem to do any good. Thanks for pointing out I need to hold it at an angle. Very helpful. Thanks
Weathorman Tom Thank you. I hope it helps.
You should let everyone know that before scrapping,sharpen the scraper and leave the burr on the tool.
very good demo
Thank you.
Lovely video.
jackie bholat Thank you.
this is very nice. thank you. what is your "shine juice" made out of? thank you.
Shellac, linseed oil, and denatured alcohol. Good luck!!!
Does tilting the scraper make it like a negative rake scraper? I have the round nose scraper similar to the one you showed, on some woods it works nice, on others it tears out. I would like to try this method of yours, thanks for sharing.
You are correct. It makes it very much like a negative rake scraper. It helps a ton with tear out and if you have it angled correctly, along with gently pushing it against the wood, it will come off like a powder. Giving you a perfect finish ready for light sanding. Good luck.
Thanks, I am a new turner, plagued by tool marks. The marks seem impossible to sand out. Thanks for the tip!
Hi, Jerrod. This is shear scraping. You can also shear scrape with a bowl gouge that has been ground back to have long wings. I also shear scrape with carbide-tipped tools. Good demonstration!
RickTurns Thank you.
RickTurns do you use a round nose carbide tool for this?
I don't care much for the small round carbide cutter...it makes it too difficult to get a smooth cut across the wood. I do find the small carbide cutter tool good the the inside curve at the bottom of a bowl. In general, however, I don't much use carbide tipped tools. I like regular tools better, perhaps because I've used them more.
What speed are you turning at for the fine tuning with bowl scraper?
Thanks for share it !!!
Thank you so much.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge with the scraper. I use it as well but I guess I wasn’t using it correctly! I didn’t usit
Thanks for the info on how to get rid of tear out!
Carol Riley Thank you for watching. 😃
@@Woodturnersjournal Hi i am where you was,with a maple bowl,i do not own a half round scraper,i have a axminster dovetail scraper & a carbide set of all. Would i be able to use any of them,or will i better buy a half round scraper? Please!
@@villain1409 Honestly, I would get the bowl scraper. Every tool has it's purpose. You may be able to get the job done with one of those other tools, but most likely your going to get more catches and frustration by taking that route. I'd say keep investing in the right tools for the job.
@@Woodturnersjournal Yes Your Correct,i am Listening.it is the flat side of the outside of the bowl i have this issue,i have not yet made the inside, so yes, after fully watching all your video,i will buy,the larger in size Scraper. Thank you very much for your input.
I miss your videos.
billy19461 Thank you very much. I'm not done, but trying to figure out what my videos and channel should look like. I'll be back.
It helps to know what angle you grind your tools and what grit wheel you used as, so I understand, the burr does the real cutting.
Very nice job. What is the diameter of the bowl and how high were the RPMs? Also. the handle of the scraper is metal. Is it hollow & weighted in any way? It sounded that way when you placed it back on the rack.
Rick Goebel 7"for the bowl. I was about 3000 rpms, which is probably too high. And the handle is hollow but it has some weight to it, so it's nice
What is your shine juice?
I use my large round nose scraper for finishing... I use it and barely touch the wood and generate powder...it takes a very light touch...but the tool needs a bur.
Jerrod, When your are scraping towards the bottom of the bowl the tool presents as a negative rake scraper. Say 45°
When you are nearer the rim the tool is more of a slicing cut, but with the line of the cutting face at 90°.
i.e. you are changing the cutting angle.
That is shown in the change from parings to powder at the end of the cut.
Reshaping the tool edge to a negative rake might be worthwhile. But there is a change in the direction of the grain too.
I'd suggest two tools with different cutting edges. But Turning is complex with the grain shifting as well as the presentation angle of the tool.
It was informative to watch this video.
Cleared up a few things for me and suggests yet another direction for experimentation.
tnkyu :-)
This is made clear by the change when you hollow out.
The exact reverse is happening with the shavings in the centre vs dust toward the rim.
Exactly the opposite. Which makes sense.
Great video!!! So how do you sharpen your bowl scraper? I am guessing you lay it on its flat face and hone away. I may be wrong like I usually am.
Don Davis No. You are 100 percent correct. I lay it flat and turn it back and forth slow and even.
Get Jerrod. What's the difference in using this scraper compared to a negative take scraper?? Thanks for your videos, good teaching.
It's very similar. A negative rake has a bevel on both sides and the tip is very delicate. You also use the tool flat on the rest most of the time. The bowl scraper only has a bevel on the bottom and you turn it on it's side in order to gently remove the material. The wood that meets the gouge sort of rolls off and it's extremely hard to get a catch. I guess, it's a matter of preference.
Great job! What kind of "shine juice" do you use?
E Wayne I make it out of equal parts Denatured alcohol, shellac, and boiled linseed oil.
Woodturners Journal i have used this mixture for for finishing. I have been researching but can’t get a solid answer... is it food safe? I want to make a nice cereal bowl but don’t want anything that can be harmful. Thanks
Have you considered make the round nose scrapper as a negative rake scrapper?
People write about that all the time. I think I'd just get a negative scraper. I love the round nose the way it is.
do you put a hook on the edge or use it as ground from the grinder?
AffordBindEquipment I like to use the honing wheel on it in order to get a really fine edge.
Did you hand sand it or power sand it? Also, did you put on sanding sealer before your shine juice? I am having alot of trouble with tool marks.
Donny Lawson I believe I used a drill sander to 220, then hands sanded. Do you own a bowl scraper?. It really helps eliminate tool marks. Check out my video on getting a perfect finish and eliminating tool marks. I go through everything.
@@Woodturnersjournal , I have a Thompson negative rake scraper 1 1/4".
Donny Lawson That's your answer. Keep perfecting that and you should be fine. Oh, and I do not use sanding sealer.
What RMP at you turning, Thanks
Wish I could have found this video I learned the hard way the soft touch is important
Thank you. What's important is that you did find it. 😊
What grit do you sand to? And what wax finish do you use? Have you heard of Yorkshire grit and Hampshire sheen
Nice bowl great finish
Take care
Rob
I usually sand to 600 and then finish with 0000 steel wool. I then use shine juice and have a buffing system that came with a bar of wax which is a Bees wax. I have heard of Yorkshire and Hampshire, but have never used them myself.
i sand to 320 grit and use yorkshire grit and sheen, i love the finish.i highly recommend it. i guess i am bias.
cheers
I have some maple that tears out like this. I've found my 1" spindle gouge actually does much better at cutting clean with only minor tearout. Much sharper angle on it, might be 55°+ at the bottom of the gouge.
I personally prefer a negative rate scrapper. More user friendly, minor risk of getting a catch.
what is your Shine Juice?
Duane Lawlor Watch my video, getting a perfect finish.
is there a burr on your scraper?
James Harper In this video no, but sometimes I do leave it on depending on what I am doing with it.
Isn’t that a shear scrape?
You must have a fish-eye lens........ or warped tools. Good video
27 min of video for 10 min of usable info about the titled subject. Didn’t mention the relationship of the cutting contact edge to the tool rest. I think might be important. The slicing finish cut with the beveled tool looks like a good approach that I will try.
I guess you're welcome for the 10 minutes of usable info. Good luck with the technique.
I've been working on the scraper since watching your video. It definitely takes practice. One question: Why do you wear a glove?
So,I got the glove thing from another wood turner. Sometimes, when you're really taking away some material, the chips flying back on your hands are hot. Also, they really feel comfortable while turning.
i bet there is a warning sticker on your lathe that says dont wear gloves, mine does lol.
That, most likely, is for the manufacturers own liability. They are worried of the material potentially getting caught in the machine. There are plenty of turners that wear gloves though. They even sell gloves for turning. Most are fingerless, but mine are skin tight, so I am not worried. Just like anything in your shop, be careful and only do what you feel comfortable with.
What's new? Works better if you use the edge of a long grind bowl gouge (e.g. see Ellsworth).
Negative rake scraper is much better.
Content was excellent, and very helpful. Your comments in this video were less crisp than in your others....you repeated yourself quite a bit.
johngmccune Thank you for the feedback. I knew I did, but I was worried I was not being totally clear. Sometimes what I'm saying makes sense to me, but I worry not to others
You are cutting against the grain. If you go with the grain, you won’t get tear out.
Jerrod, don't you ever wear a dust mask? Do your lungs a favour my friend.
Paul Blackman Yes. I wear a dust mask a lot. The only time I don't is when I am talking a lot in a section. Trust me, it's on more times than not. Thank you though.
The opening shot of crosscutting on the table saw is so wrong. Don’t do it kids.
If you would use a properly sharpened bowl gouge and proper tool presentation you will get a better finish and do it in less time. This truly not a good training video.
Michael Dellekamp Thank you for the advice and where I do agree, that was not the point of the video.
Really? 27 minutes talking and showing some repetitive scraping. Your title was a bit of an exaggeration. It alluded that there would be more techniques. How about using the term sheer scraping or maybe use a negative rake scraper? How about various sanding options? How about sharpening the scraper?
michael smith Sorry Micheal. The video was not meant to upset you. That would truley be the last thing I would intend to do to anyone. You are correct about sheer and negative rake scraping but I was showing the method of which I use. Making a video showing every single technique would probably be much longer then this one. I sincerely apologize. I have to ask though. If you already know about those other techniques, why are you watching this type of video? I'm just curious.