Bowl Turning Tips - Dealing with Tear Out
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- čas přidán 28. 05. 2024
- In Bowl Turning Tips - Dealing with Tear out, I explain what causes tear out that often frustrates novice bowl turners. And I offer some solutions for dealing with torn grain
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You can download demonstration handouts, downloadable copies of articles I have published, and other useful woodturning information available on my website www.mikepeacewoodturning.com/ - Jak na to + styl
I've watched a number of your videos. I really appreciate you calm yet matter of fact teaching. I also like how you respect your students and don't intimidate or talk down. Your name truly speaks to your mannerisms. Thanks.
I appreciate that!
The tip about keeping the tools sharp should help a great majority of turners with tear out problems. Sadly I am one of them. I am learning. Thanks to you and a few others with good advice to give. Thank you for sharing. Have a great day and please continue to stay healthy.
Thanks, you too, Glen.
Mike, I think I've binge watched your entire channel twice over now and I'm still learning new things every video I watch.
Thanks so much for creating this content, you've been one of the key turners that really got me started and continues to help me level up.
Awesome, thank you!
Thanks for this Mike. I’m quite new to turning and had some real problems with a spalted beech bowl today. I now have some solutions to try and am really grateful for your advice.
Glad to help. Have fun and stay safe.
Mike! As we say in Scotland, "Lang mae yer lum reek"! meaning ‘long may your chimney smoke’, this is the best way to wish someone a long and healthy life. Keep up the great tips!
Today I snapped the screw head off the face plate now digging the rest of the screw out. Ah we'el.
I am not sure the environmentalists would agree about your chimney pumping out black smoke from a good hot coal fire 😃😃😃
Ouch! I had to dig out some barb wire recently. I feel your pain. I visited your beautiful country a couple of years ago.
You're like the Mr. Rogers of woodturning. Thanks for the video.
Wow, thanks
Good explanation of torn grain and grain direction etc.....Sam
Thanks, Sam.
Thank you for this. I've been turning for about a year and I've learned to avoid tear out on hard woods but spalted woods and burrs tend to have punky sections. The annoying thing is that these are particularly choice woods in terms of figure. I've used the CA method. However, not only are the fumes a problem, the CA stabilised areas tend to show up when I apply a finish. The CA seals the fibres and also prevents finish absorbtion so it looks fine after sanding but gives an uneven finish. Most finishes darken the wood to some degree... except where the fibres are sealed with CA.
Your advice on other methods of stabilising punky wood is pure gold to me. Thank you.
Thanks for sharing. I am sure other viewers will gain from your experience with CA.
@@MikePeaceWoodturning Thanks also for the tip about grinding a bowl gouge to an obtuse bevel. I reground a bowl gouge immediately after watching this and turned a small bowl. Okay, it was ash and it wasn't punky so tear out wasn't a problem. But that bevel angle made a huge difference to the hollowing process. That was the cleanest hollow I've cut so far without lots of scraping and sanding.
Many thanks.
Ron, exactly right, that's why I gave up on using CA at all..!! Terrible stains as well..!!
Another great video Mike. Thanks! I love your closing thoughts: “it’s not you versus the wood” and “wood grows on trees - life’s too short...”. Great thoughts to keep in mind.
Stay safe.
Right on! So many turners seem determined to fix or repair taking more time to achieve a lesser result instead of moving on and getting better.
Mike Peace Woodturning But Mike sometime pride demands spending a lot of time beating yourself, oops I mean the wood, into a suitable piece. Many times when I get in that mindset I do finally get a piece I feel is presentable at the clubs show and tell session. Is it just me or are we are own worse enemy? I mean the turner always see every small glitch on a piece, and showing it to a bunch of other turners who’ll also spot every error you’ve made (wether they tell you or not - you can see it in there eyes🤔). I’ve spent hours tweaking a piece after my wife has said she loved it (of course that may be that I want to have it in my possession for a while longer before she gives it away to a relative or friend 😉). But I do appreciate you helpful videos, with loads of useful tips to try and help us be better turners. Some does sink in, even through hard heads like mine. Again, THANKS!
@@tomcoker9882 Remember, never point out your errors!
Mike Peace Woodturning Oops!🤭
thank you Mike,was working on a black poplar,bad tareout,probably toss,yes there is lots wood
thanks mike have not got that issue yet but now i know and knowing is half the battle .
Great video with excellent information. Thanks Mike!
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks for addressing the sandpaper option. I have to admit I've resorted to that more than once (trying to get better with my tools and sharpening). It's nice to know it takes a toll beyond the time and patience it requires.
You bet!
Thanks for this video. I'm a beginner bowl turner. I've struggled with this in 3 of the 4 bowls I've made
Glad I could help!
Excellent video. Great job addressing the kind of tear out problems I am having. Now time to go out to the shop and try out some of your suggestions.
Thanks, Boyd.
Thanks Mike...your sound and down to earth advice is much appreciated!
My pleasure!
Very very. helpful video Thank you for sending me the link Mr Peace 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Thanks, glad it was helpful.
There is so much information in this video, I need to watch it again! I just switched from a mini lathe to a 2020 Powermatic. All your advice was amplified when I fired up "The Beast". Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge in such an organized and comprehensive video!
Glad it was helpful! Enjoy that new Mustard Monster.
Thanks Mike. I gotta keep having these basic tips brought to the top every so often. How did you know it was time ?😁 Thank you🙏 Stay safe. -Mike😷
Glad to help! Some things bear repeating.
Thanks for these tips!! I found them very helpful as I always seem to have tearout!
You are so welcome! I think it has happened to us all.
Thanks for the tips. Now I can solve tear out. Stay safe! Great video!
Thanks, you too, Michael.
Great video Mike .. thank you for sharing ... 😀
Thank you for some great tips, Mike!
You bet!
Thanks Mike another great video of tips.
Glad you enjoyed it
Thanks for the valuable tips!
My pleasure!
Thanks Mike, very informative.
Very welcome
Thanks Mike. I’ve tried some of these techniques, but in the wrong order. They worked (wood stabilizer, CA, sanding sealer, etc). I never thought it could possibly be my technique 😏 and of course my tools are always sharp (I just sharpened them a little over a hour or so ago), but I try looking on those things, I.e. sharpen my tools more often and look at how I’m using them and at the tool itself (may be time to reshape some of my older tools to some different profiles to see it it helps)[and if it does, it is a reason to go buy a new tool of premium steel of the correct profile]😄. Again, thanks for the video. Now to go look at some of those problem bowls in the “bad wood” pile to see is they can be salvaged.
Sounds like a plan!
Very helpful. Thanks Mike.
Very welcome
Just wanted to thank you for the tips that really helped me out a whole lot and I will be using them thanks again
Happy to help!
Great info Mike. Thank you. V
Very welcome
Japanese woodworkers have used linseed oil for finishing plane strokes to prevent tearout
Thanks for sharing.
Some very helpful advice, thanks.
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks Mike, I found this very helpful and timely.
Very welcome!
Thanks, I sure needed a few tips on fixing tear out.
You're welcome!
Very helpful advice, thanks
Glad it was helpful!
A good informative video, thanks Mike. I find spalted wood to be the worst, it tends to have some very soft punky areas and yet it can be very attractive if/when you obtain a smooth finish. i'm also going to try the suggestion below, so thanks Lyndal.
Thanks! Good luck.
Great explanation... thanks for sharing!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great advice Mike,keep safe and well mate👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍😎
Thanks, you too!
I use a one to one mixture of boiled linseed oil and mineral oil. I put it on rather liberal on the tearing sections. Let it sit sit for about 5-10 min. Then I make sure my tool is sharp and increase the speed up to 1100 rpm. I start shaving the wood very very lightly. When I’m done the area is smooth. Then I will use the wood sealer and sand lightly it’s 800 or above cloth back sand paper. When I’m finished the are no tear ot
As you recognize, stiffening the fibers and cutting with sharp tools are the keys to eliminating tearout.
Thanks for the reminders Mike. I'd like to add that if you're planing to dye the piece, wood hardner may not be a good choice. I used hardner on the inside of a bowl I was planning to dye and the hardner seeped thru the punky wood. Then that area would not accept the dye, leaving a large blotch.
Great point! I don't actually use hardners. But I suppose you could have that same problem with small CA glue repairs affecting dyes.
One of your best vids. Very informative, good job Mike.
I appreciate that, Mike!
Fantastic tips, Mike! Thanks a lot! 😊
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Thanks, you too!
Thank you for some good advice
Regar
Our pleasure!
Thanks Mike thank you awesome information!
Our pleasure!
Thanks for sharing
Happy to do so.
Hi, Mike - excellent video! Best tool I’ve found for a clean finish on a bowl bottom is the dedicated shear scraper I made. But trying to use a regular scraper at a shear-scraping angle on the bottom or sides of a bowl is asking for a big catch (I speak from much experience). On another subject, does it seem to you that CZcams has gotten much more intrusive with their ads? There seem to be more of them now than there used to be.
Well, they did start adding a midroll add for videos of 8 minutes or more as a default. But you still have a choice to turn off ads at different points in your channel settings. Of course more ads is more Adsense revenue for creators.
Good advise Mike Thanks Stay Healthy and safe.
And you.
Great tips Mike. I have had pretty good luck in the past using a few heavy coats of sanding sealer and letting that soak in good. I just use the cheap stuff from my local hardware store though, partly just so I’m not wasting a bunch of the betting sealer but also because my local hardware store, Ace Hardware, doesn’t offer a many other options. Hope you and your family are doing well.
Wish I had a nearby ACE. Stay safe my friend.
Great video! I have been turning on some mimosa and have been getting tear out terribly. I will definitely be trying your solutions. Thanks so much for the great information.💕
Glad it was helpful!
Same here. Mimosa is very beautiful but very hard to turn.
Have used the walnut oil process for several years and find it about 80% effective. I believe I should credit Mike Mahoney who mentioned it in a demo several years ago. Not his special finishing brand but generic. I use food grade from the grocery store that I frequent. Always waited for a sale or coupon, but I am in there often enough that one of the Asst. Managers at least recognizes my face. Was in the oil aisle when he walked by and I told him about my unusual use. When they are stocking the shelves with fresh oil occasionally they have cans near or past their recommended “use by date.” These are pulled and disposed. He said if he remembers next time he sees some ready for disposal that he would pull a couple out for me. The reason that he may be alerted is that any disposal requires a manager’s approval. I now have enough walnut oil for a couple lifetimes. Only issue is that the shavings are messy and stick to everything
My other fall back has been either sanding sealer or shellac when the walnut oil fails. If that fails I agree with Mike and John Jordan “life is too short to turn bad wood”. The sad part is it seems that is always a beautiful piece of wood such as a burl. Last burl like this I sliced it into small veneers and inserted them in the center of sets of coasters. Much less frustrating
Thanks for sharing your tips, Jay.
I am fighting a piece of punky spalded maple at the moment. Good advice. I will give your advice a try. 👍🏻👍🏻
You can do it!
Mike Peace Woodturning It worked!! It stabilized it just enough to cut away the tearout. 💪🏻👍🏻
@@m1atim Excellent!
Mike, thanks for the excellent solutions, I suspect my primary problem is sharp tools. Never thought how much distance a tool "travels" at 1000 RPM.
We turn and we learn, don't we?
Excellent episode, Mike. Most of them tips I have learned, tho I don't have a wide range of gouges to use. My stiffener of choice is shellac, but I did not know about plain water. Also, shear scraping is sometimes suggested, and I have used it in the past, but not on really soft wood. I always find your videos helpful. Thanks.
Thanks, Ron. Stay safe.
Mike, excellent video. What a sensible approach to addressing tear out. I will remember the steep grind for the bowl bottom gouge if I run into this problem in the future. As noted in other comments, using various glues to stiffen the fibers can cause a blotchy finish, as I have found in other projects where I missed some glue on the wood and "found" it when I applied finish. I guess it is possible to stiffen the wood as you describe, then when the wood is fully smooth, to overcoat the entire surface to ensure the finish looks even. Can you discuss this in a future video?
I think blotching will occur most when you have something penetrating the fibers and drying like CA, Wood hardner and glue. I do no think there will be problems using a sanding sealer, wax, an oil or oil finish if you are using an oil finish like minwax antique oil as a final finish.
Hi Mike. Thanks for the video. I use round and square, and R2° carbide tools and they are sharp, but I still get tear out. As mentioned lacquer and the CA treatment affects the finish It is a tough problem to solve, but I'm still hopeful I will find a cure.
Thank you.
Charles.
Charles, carbide excels cutting acrylics and very hard wood. Ivory was typically scraped. But it will never do well on soft wood and spalted wood lends itself to tearout from scraping. I started with traditional slicing tools that do better on softer wood. I tried using carbide but for most tasks find them ill suited for what I turn.
Thanks! I fight this often
Great tips, Could you do a video on types of woods, that are hazardous to you health to turn, as I've heard it's hazardous to turn red cedar. Thanks
Great idea. I will add that to my to do list!
Great advice Mike! I am dealing with a very dry punky piece of jack pine that has been sitting in my shop for quite some time and also I don’t have a huge variety of tools for turning with and it has tareout that I cannot fix but I figure it is a winged natural edge so I have done what I can and that will be that hopefully it will look alright!? Greg
Dry punky pine? Not what I would want to turn. Life is too shortt for turning crappy wood. Too much other good wood available. If you don't have a firewood stash go to to some place that cuts firewood and you should be able to get fixed up cheap if you can't find any elsewhere.
Hi old guy, haven't heard much from you for a while, how is the shop coming? Tried doing some turning the other night but to much snow blowing in through the cracks 🙃. I hear you on the punky pine, not having much choice of wood in our area kind of limits . I have a bunch of white poplar burl ,beautiful grain but seems to tear out no matter what ,had same problem with diamond willow burl .I'm going to set it aside till I get a stabilizing system
@@lesgallivan4159 the shop is coming along slowly bad weather and my age and health makes for slow going just all happened at bad time of year but I will get things together again eventually! And yes I believe some woods need the extra touch to get turned I myself have a pressure pot to cast resin now so when I get going again I will be doing some resin work with some of that crappie wood lol thanks for the message and I am ok just we have a early bad winter upon us here this year!
@@oldguywoodworks7374 i sent some more snow your way this afternoon, lol it hit here about 10 am , and North Battleford at 11:00
@@lesgallivan4159 ya we got some lol
Great video. I happen to be having issues with tear out on a mahogany piece today, and this came up in my suggestions! Is CZcams psychic?
I guess you could say CZcams is Psychic as it works hard to serve up what they think you want to see!
Mike Peace Woodturning apparently! I tried shellac but that didn’t work well. So I tried CA, and that worked fairly well if I cranked up the speed. I have a 1942 power king, so I was on the 3rd pulley step, whatever that speed is!
The best method I’ve used is minwax water based sanding sealer as explained by the wood whirler. Not too expensive either.
I never heard of it and looked it up. It takes an hour to dry but I guess you are frictioning it on?
Mike Peace Woodturning No, it’s just brushed on and allowed to dry. An hour sounds about right. As you apply it, you can also rub in a slurry mixed with sanding dust to fill in the pitting. I sometimes use it before finish turning, and/or before sanding. No smell either. 😀 A few of his videos give a great demonstration.
mike i know this might seem like a crazy question but,,,,on the outside of a bowl what degree of taper do you think the outside should be from the foot to the top of the bowl,,
No good answer since you can have multiple pleasing shapes such as ogee curves and asymetrical curves. A great resource is Richard Raffan's book amzn.to/3hZgAOd
@@MikePeaceWoodturning thank you mike,,
Would an Acrylic sanding sealer be useful at all?
Never used one and not familiar with them.
once youve done all this , is it ok to sand , if so what grit , or would it re - tear it out?
if you have hardened the wood as I explained, then sanding should not be a major problem. If the wood is still punky, you can sand but it will be a challenge as the soft wood will disappear faster than harder adjacent areas. I would sand with some backer pad to spread the surface area out. Best to avoid punky wood for me.
How about end grain tulip?
Sharpen EVERY finish cut and use the cutting edge almost parallel with the rotation of the work piece.
Could you freeze it to prevent tear out?
Ummm. Too much work for me but try it and report back.
I am just starting out and have an unlimited amount of spalted Beech. The wetter it is, the more of an issue I am having with tear out. So I assumed that waiting for all these tear out pieces to dry and then taking more passes to eliminate tear out, that it would be the answer. Has anyone succeeded with this method? I have no dry pieces yet! :)
Let us know how it turns out.
When I turn a piece of dry Koa I tend to get lots of tear out! Sand Sand Sand!
Nice
Thanks
Hey dere, "mr. bowl-turner-outer" you! Your CZcams channel cover shoot - your bowl looked like a "door knob" of "owl tings"! Have you ever considered turning out a series of door knobs???! "Watta kanabe"! "Gesundheit"!!!
That is an idea if I need a door knob. I have a video on turning drawer pulls.
Naw! You just sand with some P40 for about 10 hours. 😂
😂