Variator Weights Misconception QUICK TIP - Somewhat Daily Stuffing
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- čas přidán 7. 02. 2017
- More weight, more top speed.
Less weight, better acceleration.
Or...?
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I would like to live in a planet with more gentlemen with this kind of posture and less haters .
"Try not to Become a man of success, but a man of value"
That's the truth
Thank you for that random motivation
That one sentence has made me subscribe... I accept this challenge...
Man of Value. Well said.
Very informative, well explained and love the quote at the end. Excellent
Thanks!
A MAN OF VALUE!!! very well said!!! thank you for your videos,keep'm coming.
Thanks!
Finally thank you so simple yet people make it so damn sophisticated
thank you so much i was gonna buy lighter weights (im actually a biker never ridden a scooter) but i just wanted to check if you had any videos and you did and i figured out i need heavier weights
Excellent video. Very well explained.
So basically, the rollers perform the same function in a cvt that sprockets perform on a chain-driven bike. Lowering or raising the tooth count of the sprockets on the bike won't give you "more" top speed or acceleration, it will simply work differently with the engine/rpm band and you'll trade one for the other, depending on gearing. Different weight rollers will keep you in a certain 'gear' longer or shorter as your engine revs. Which is 'better' is dependent on how you ride the bike and where your engine likes to operate.
great video, very clear and easy to understand.
Thank you friend...excellent video
That's valuable man 🙃
Awesome explanation! Keep it up bro 👍
This is so true man. Thanks for sharing.
good explaination.. people forget that the variator spin on the crankle.. modifing weights and change with a more performance variator is equal to lightening a flywheel. higher rpm without a correct calculation isn't a good choice, risk of overspeed is dangerous. remember.. at high rpm the torque.. decrease.
Thx bro it really helpt me
Jävligt bra och tydligt förklarat! :)
+Albin Nilsson Takker!
I see this all too often in a few Facebook groups I use. I get sick of explaining it haha.
Ok so what weights will i use to gain speed from acceleration and top speed?? Please let me know
Can i keep the stock clutch if i upgrade my variator also do i need to get a different drive belt or can i still use the stock one
He himself is confused and making us more confused of what we learnt from different source
Man of value 👌 👍👍
I appreciate your concluding statement.
15,000rpm if your turning those kind of numbers your not gonna watch this for advise you are spot on as to light weights shift at high rpm and heavy shift quicker what makes the decision is how much weight are you hauling off the line
A light rider, say 110 lbs.. heavy or light weights? I actually wanna make my 150cc scooter Slower Less Powerful to learn on. Perhaps I should have started with a 50cc but I didn't have that option.
I got a rebuild kit w little bit heavier weights & I put them in. The engine was constantly winding out, too high rpm before catching, not using ANY of the lower rpms, very annoying. I put the stock lighter weights in & it was much better use of low & high rpms. So the heavy weights made it rev all the time. Yerf dog 150cc
I have a jog90 variator on my Keeway scooter with a 70 cc malossi set up. The clutch is original. Malossi wild Lion exhaust. I had tried 4 gram and 5 grams weights. also a mix of 3.5 gram with 4 gram. still the scooter had a slow take off. When I switched to full 3,5 gram weights everything changed. fast take off. Good speed. 80km/h. I think i can higher topspeed. So, lighter weights with a heavy variator can mae a difference
when the rpm drops as you take off as you wack the throttle the contra spring is too soft
Hello thanks for the information its very helpful and informative, if you have time I have a few questions about the torque driver and I would like to know if you can help?
Will lighter rollers make the torque peak sooner?
Excellently explained. How can I check where is the peak power delivered on my scooter without any testing equipment?
In hot rodding we use the 'butt dyno'
'How's it feeeeel?'
Whan you upgrade to a big bore kit does this change the power band drastically or or will it be relatively close to the same as the powerband when the bike was stock? I have been tuning my scooter with an 80cc bbk on it and it's been tough to decide on what sliders to use in my Dr pulley variator. With 6gm sliders I can reach 8000 rpms downhill and with 6.5gm I hit Max of 7400 rpm. What rpm would you say is to high and most likely skipping over the power band for a 139 qmb 50cc 4stroke? Any input would be greatly appreciated
Thanks in advance.
"become a man of value": much commented already. Thank you for showing the way
Hi @2stroke stuffing, I hope you read this. Would you recommend keeping the variator at peak horse power rpm, at peak torque rpm, or perhaps somewhere in the middle? Love the video by the way. No blabla, but short and to the point. Cheers!
It depend on power graph and what you want 👌🏻
Yup! The flyweights should be chosen to keep the engine at power.
@2STROKE STUFFING Do you have experience with using "Dr. Pulley" sliders instead of of rollers?
Pls make more videos about cvt, clutch spring center spring pulley etc.
Hi. I have yamaha neos 50cc. Max speed is 68km/h . At 55-60km/h it pulls very hard and i want to ask what to change and upgrade for better top speed?
Also important is clutch spring tension if available. Not for speed but for when/how it engages.
Heavy rollers and light clutch. Is that good combo?
@@nanzansama4180You gotta try out whats best for you. But that combo isnt bad
@@nanzansama4180 You will get low low end torque as the wheel will start moving early at very low rpm but good for efficiency in traffic as you can then set your idle rpm to very low if your engine doesn't stall when running decently hot.
@@iamakkkshay so if the scooter comes to stall than if I accelerate a bit more it won't stall anymore right?
i love the somewhat daily stuffing videos. So if you put heavy weights on then you will have the same top speed, when you use the lighter ones?
Thanks! Yep, as long as the variator can gear out fully - too light and it won't.
i also like the end quotes :D
@@2STROKESTUFFINGactually it still can top out as it just takes more RPM to create that centrifugal force ,my crazy friends tried removing 2 roller weights in a 6 roller setup, only 4 was installed and the lazy scoot transformed into an rpm monster with loads of acceleration i marked the pulley and the belt still tops out the rpm went up from lazy 8000 to 10000, 4 stroke scoot
I installed some sliders 11g with a racing variator , i found i accelerated much quicker and got to 46mph pretty fast, however i do now find that i struggle to get to 57mph which is what i got on stock, but i think it is because i have a lighter weighted variator and the rollers are now sliders producing better acceleration at the cost of top end speed.
Very good..
Thanks!
I had lighter weights in mine and prefer the heavier 5 gram weights with my sons set up. 3gram weights just made it rev and snap like crazy.
Great channel. I'm a noob. How do i know where my peak power is ? I don't have an RPM gauge on Yamaha BWS 50 (2018).
I'd like to change my weights to the right "sweetspot" (ie somewhere in the middle...light enough weight to climb hills occasionally, but high enough top speed to exceed the 45-50KM/h I get).
I dont know which weights to choose (a mix?).
Also, I've read about Dr Pulley and their non-roller design, so if you had a good idea which weight and which Dr Pulley to buy, I'd appreciate the advise.
I'd suggest you get a cheap rpm gauge, put in some really heavy rollers and go for a spin(might need to be slightly downhill if it's weak). It'll gear out fast and as rpm starts climbing you'll feel when it starts pulling hard - take note of rpm when it happens. Now start experimenting with lighter rollers until it'll stay there when variating. With a variator you won't have to choose between acceleration or top speed, the right rollers will give best acceleration without any sacrifice up top.
This makes more sense
hey you should try tuning a engine with gears, like a derbi or AM6 engine. that'd be really cool.
+Nick There's a Derbi Senda project coming up!
How can we identify where the peek power sits on our engine in order to install the right roller weights?
Nice speach at the end of the video
sir may i ask which is better roller the cylindrical like dr pulley or the round shape?ty
dr pulleys geometry is an upgrade... dont believe me... dr pulley video czcams.com/video/yxcQGmT8EJc/video.html
Hey there senpai. I got 50cc scooter. Ive put 3x10g roller & 3x9 roller on a big torque drive. Suddenly ive got 53kmh tops speed. Ive used 1500 rpm spring. How can i choose right wieght for that kind of setup.. Thnks in advance senpai
the roller weights that are put in as stock are a compromise , you don't necessarily want a scoot that instantly shoots up to 8k rpm ( peak power) as soon as you fart on the throttle when trying to cruise along At 50 mph an a straight road or through town on a slightly open throttle lol.Its fine if you want that sort of performance ( I know some will)but most that think they do probably don't when they are trying to commute into work in the rain !. Not meaning to be a killjoy just saying think about what you want to achieve before you go fiddling and end up with undoubtedly a faster scoot but maybe one thats crap for day to day use. I can never understand why people think putting heavier weights in the variator gives better top speed it can only ever close up so far and unless you put stupidity low weights in it or you fit a spring that is way too strong it will always close up as far as it will go giving the same top speed.
this is my problem now, normal casual takeoff takes 6000rpm to get the bike going its a pain in stop and go traffic lol i will try a heavier rollers
actually there is another factor (RPM) regardless of pulley belt travel, as the belt reach the top of the pulley the bike will now accelerate as the engine RPM increases lets say if you put heavy roller and your belt tops out at 7000rpm and it cannot go anymore faster but when you put lighter rollers your belt tops at 8000rpm and the engine produces a bit more power at such rpm the top speed will slowly creep up together with the rpm a 500 rpm increase at top belt travel could mean 10-20km/h more speed
What about 8 gram roller weights would that be too heavy?
i have pcx 160cc engine. peak at 15.8HP at 8500rpm. it has bigger engine but also heavier bike. at 131kg. with fuel 8.1liter. and oil etc. it will be closer to 140kg. make power to weight ratio even worst.
it has 19gr roller. i think it pretty much self explanatory. very smooth acceleration but also quite a heavy drag.
ill try 17gr roller soon.
my bike "is stuck" sometimes on 50km/H it will have to go over 55km/h and aftger 55 it accelerate like a madman to 70-75km/h .. im throwing my 17,5mm carb on i just have the 12mm original now on my 70cc cylinder... tried heavy rollers and it did 80km/h but way to slow acceleration. i had 7gram when it did 80, and now i have 6.5 i think
well said. most of them apply grease to variator weights. is it recommended to apply grease or oil to variator weights ?
Hey there,
I am new to most of this. How do you approach figuring out what your machines peak RPM is, and then further matching the weights to achieve that?
it is going to be based on 2or4 stroke and the displacement and square of your cylinder. There are calculators available to give that number.
Hi , what would you suggest for me , I have Kymco Downtown 125i, stock weights are 12gr . I got Polini Variator with 9gr and 11.8gr. and I did the combination of 3x9gr and 3x11.8. I notice improvements in acceleration but not end speed , this actually decreased. This scooter gets peak power 11KW at 7350rpm . I ordered 10.4 gr and 13.2 gr polini weights to try out that combo and see , but doyou have any suggestions? Thanks
i wish i would've watch this vid before buy light 10g weights for no reason. Thanks for the info!
Next on Gears’we, should be running.for off the Line & top speed 🤔💨
hi im from phillipines im always watching this... can you help me i have a gy6 150cc wht is the best roller weight for this...
Sorry, impossible to say - you'll have to try lighter/heavier weights and see how it reacts.
Thanks
In gearless scooters, should we apply little bit of grease on round shaped rollers and roller-grooves in variator for smooth spinning of rollers in variator?
Or will it make more issues after some time like dust deposit, sides of rollers get flat faster, vibrations will increase etc ?
Please tell what should we do with proper reason.
No, it was prohibited. Grease only need to be added on the driven face iner part and the 3 pins
Maybe, grease is OK to use in racing or other scenarios where the variator will be cleaned frequently and the dust isn't allowed to accumulate. The belt produces a fine dust as it wears. Grease will attract and cause a build up of belt dust in the variator ramps over time.
my 2019 burgman 400 has the same top speed with 14gr rollers and 20gr rollers...140km at same rpm 8500 i can not understand why it happening...what can i do to improve it...Thank you very much in advice
Top speed isn't affected by roller weight as long as the variator is able to "gear out" fully.
With 2 kind of roller I think is how quick u can get get that top speed not how much more the top speed you can get.
I bought weights from my Vespa dealer. I put them in and my bike is slow going up hill.
I can't remember what colour they are. Yellow or green.
I think I took out yellow ones and put in new green ones.
I want to replace them, but don't want to get the wrong ones again. I have a 2014 primavera 125.
I thought the new weights felt a little heavier, than the old ones, but I'm not sure which
Colour the new ones were, only that they are green or yellow?
Problem is i dont have rpm gauge so i dont know if my weights are good or not, or where my engine power îs the highest, for exemple at a carburetor engine, does it have like a cutfuel at certain rpm or it just keeps reving untill it destroy itself?
I don't remember if my scooter had light or heavy rollers put in. But 2 months ago I had my 49cc scooter upgraded to a 110cc, but before I was able to reach 50+mph going downhill but only 35 on flat ground. Now with this engine I can only go 45mph on flat ground and downhill, and just over 30 uphill. Do I have light or heavy rollers?
You have heavier rollers that do not accommodate your engine upgrade. Experiment with lighter rollers to boost your engine RPM and keep the engine within desired power-band. Thanks.
Your mechanic lied to you.
My experience regarding upgrading scooters the bigger the engine upgrade the lighter the rollers and stiffer the contra spring, it just produces so much power and so fast that the roller weight shift up the variator too soon actually making the bike slower than stock
How do I determine the peak rpm? And which weight does keeps it say at 15k rpm
1) check google for your bike specification
2) your scooter dont rev to 15k rpm
Hey man. Are you from Norway?
I have a puch Maxi witch has a 2 stroke Engine
Hi bro i have 155cc scooter with max torque of 13.8 N.m @ 6,250 rpm and max power of 11.1kW / 8,000 rpm. What is the best roller weight to have better top speed??
+Des Musix Hey there! Impossible to say due to variables like roller ramp angle, spring stiffness etc, sorry. Trial and error is the way to go.
i don't want a fast scooter. i just want a high accelerated scooter. without compromising my fuel. what grams should i use ? - any suggestion ?
I want to know that too, for my wheelies
Great tip! But how to know the peak power in my Vespa GTS 150 rpm range? I’m buying a Malossi Multivariator specific for my scooter that comes with 12.5 gr rollers should that be right?
Without a dyno you'll have to go by feel/ear and trial and error.
2STROKE STUFFING thanks for the quick reply. So I can’t even trust the 12.5gr that the Malossi Variator comes with specific for my model scooter?
Nope, but 12.5 is probably in the ballpark.
I have a fes125 and when I am at full throttle the bike feel like it is pulling back, so I have to release and hold the throttle just under full throttle to stop this, can I do anything so I can just keep it full6 with out juggling with the throttle
Yup keep it in the power band
Hello sir...I have a 125cc gy6 scooter and I installed a (2000rpm) spring clutch and the 3 little springs.
Also 13g (18x14) sliders.
But my scooter doesn't speed over 80km/h.
Should I install 1000rpm spring clutch, and lighter rollers, for better performance..?
Clutch doesn't help top speed....
How would I go about finding the RPMs of my scooter? I'm new to this all and feel lost at times. What are some recommendations for increasing overall top speed? I can get my scooter up to 35 mph; however, I would like to reach 50/55 mph. Any website or channel recommendations for beginners?
Buy a small engine tach.
You can change top end by installing a 2 tooth bigger gear on the engine AND OR 2 teeth LESS on rear gear.
Try
Rolling Wrench garage on youtube
@@jamesbeason9256 Why do you call Rolling Wrench Garbage? I assume you are speaking of his gear ration upgrade kit. That coupled with the Reveno clutch he claims his bikes do 100 mph.
@@DivergentDroid he said “garage”.
@@denmar355 So he Did. I must have been Really stoned that night. Can you spare a dollar, I haven't eaten in 3 days since I stole this guys cell phone and dead hooker. ( I used the one that worked)
I played with my variator weights , now I'm getting a lot of pulsing vibration even with the ones I started with. All of them are roller weights no sliders. Any idea where this could be coming from!?
+Nick Badillo Are they worn? Sound strange...
Probably put back together wrong. Spacers in the wrong spots.
How can i chose the right ones , does i need to try some types ?
My bike is really slow to pick up revs up to around 15-20mph, and then it pulls ok revs fine, is this weights/drivetrain servicing related? Thanks in advance
It's the variator washer. It's still restricted
fishsticks-RND thanks for the reply bud, but I’ve just had variator off, swear I couldn’t see a washer
Okay so this is whats happening:
I have Beta Ark it's 3.2kW...with everything stock it goes around 80km/h with me(66kg)...but acceleration is shit and i cant possibly pop a wheelie...do you have any sugestions what should i change to get a better takeoff?
Try lighter weights and see what happens, it might running too low in the rev range.
And stiffer clutch springs too, if the lighter weights help.
2STROKE STUFFING thank you
Nice
I got lighter weights thinking I would go faster but I went slower I would go 30 kmh and hit 6000 rpms then it would go all the way up to 9000 rpms in a second I got heavier ones and it’s a lot smoother
Hi
If i chance to a stiffer spring, will it give me more acceleration?
Thanks for the great videos:)
If peak power is at a higher rpm than what your taking of at now then yes.
Hello I'm from Greece I have a sym symphony sr 150... I put the tech pulley flying rollers 2..10gr as the original weight but I haven't see any difference... Why is that? All the people I ask before buy the thech pulley rollers they said to me that the performance will improve...
Sir I have 4 stroke 150 cc scooter BT top speed is two seated is 80 plzzz sgest better rollar and what gram plzzzz sir
OK I was running 6.5g in my scooter 49cc with a big bore 100cc kit could not get it over 40. I put 8.5 in it that came with my kit and now I am hitting 46miles why is that ?
The 6.5g weights were probably not enough to push the belt all the way out to the edge.
I am a novice when it comes to motorcycle tuning but, regarding this topic. What will happen if I change the idle rpm to high or low. Will it affect the performance of the roller weights?
Won't affect it, if you set idle high enough your scooter will drive off by itself tho...
@@2STROKESTUFFING Almost bought a scooter where someone did this. Once the engine turned on, you'd have to hold the brake at stoplights else you'd cruise through at 5mph. The seller said he did it for increased acceleration. To me though, it felt like it was wearing out the clutch.
@@JacksonWestfall good way to hide a blown out clutch, if a scooter cant roll when off its clutch is blown out
I have an elystar 50cc , what rpm does this scooter makes? I bought it cheap used and needs new transmission
Weigth for max aceleration ?? 13 gr... Or 10gr and max speed 8gr... Please help me
A channel named FIFTYmil is spreading this false information, just because he achieved better results at lighter weights he concluded it is better for scooters to have lighter weight.
He's not alone...
Please elaborate on what you mean at 1:10 when you say 'keep the rpm at peak power while the bike is variating". In your example, you use 15,000 rpm so does that mean the bike shifts when that rpm is reached? How can you identify when the bike shifts with a CVT transmission? Thanks
Hi their bud. First off love your videos man but I’m stuck I’ve ask many people on Facebook but most of them are jerks. I just installed a naraku CVT kit on my 50cc. But no power can u give me a starting point for me To start at for springs and rollers please
I put in 20 gram rollers , no other changes at this time . I do want totry Dr. Pully sliders at 20 grams . Maybe I will need a bit bigger spring on the rear variator . One step at a time . For racing ? No ,for normal use and pulling a cargo trailer .
what grams may I use if im am 90kg and my backride is 80kg...may stopspeed is 80kmph and when uphill almost 40/50kmph.im using 12gx6 of roller.it's very slow.tips how it work for best
Impossible to say, sorry. Every setup is different, you'll have to experiment with lighter/heavier rollers and see how it reacts.
thank you...I'll try...good job...:-)
Thanks!
6x6 or 4.5x6 would be for full time dual riders
hi, my 100cc Bali can't go into high rpm when I am standing on an uphill slope. It drivers too slow for at least 20m. I used lighter weights but, the problem persists. As soon as I get higher rpm, the the engine and variator run ok. Don't now how to solve this.
for average Joe it is a matter of trial and error through how bike feels
Can I try 3 different weights together eg 2x16g 2x18g 2x20g?
Hi if i change my contra spring to a stiffer one like 1500rpm..should i replace the rollers with less weight or use heavier rollers?i was using 1000rpm contra spring before and using 10g rollers
Don't change the rollers and see how it behaves, if not to your liking go lighter/heavier.
2STROKE STUFFING thanks will try 10g rollers again..
Currently using the 9g rollers. Take off is good..but too long to hit 100kph
@@pistolerongpinoy4893 try 8grams roller and 1000rpm center spring.and don't change the stock clutch spring . It will make it fast to accelerate and achieve early to ur top speed and less vibration ..
What weights should i put on MALOSSI RED SPRING +40% ? between 4.0g and 5.5g?
yes, buy set of 4.5 and 5. start of with 4.5 and later mix
How to know rpm on specific scooter and how to know rpm if dashboard not showing rpm?
What is the stock or normall weights ov the rollers in a 50cc moped. Chineese
No clue, sorry!
I change my variator and when I move the lower RPM The bike vibrate what are your symptoms
Just to double check, and I know I'm unlikely to get a response on such an old video, but I've just picked up an old Italjet to tinker with... When you say "shift at peak power" do you mean that it shifts INTO peak power, or shifts gear once it reaches peak power?
Engines hp and torque cross around 4000 rpm
Then torque fall off hp takes over.
You shift at the redine of your build.
Bigger gear in front smaller in back is top end
IE switching from a 11 to a 13 up front gives you top end. 11 to 10 would be low end.
Smaller gear in back 52 to 50 top end. Big gear 58 to 60 in back, low end. You change ine or both til your happy with what your butt dyno is 'telling you'
When i raced We'd go up 1 in front down 2 in back
In the 70s i had a 125 italjet dirt bike. Finicky bastard. Carb will be your biggest issue. Yee haw
@@jamesbeason9256 oh no I get final drive ratio adjustment and fine tuning. I don't shift at red line because redline is where the limiter kicks in to protect the engine - it's not the peak Hp OR torque, nor does it allow shifting into peak power or torque in the next gear. I was more wondering about the terminology used - "shift at peak power", seems counterproductive - wastes power, and shifts into a gear too early.
I've managed to sort out carb, home made exhaust pressure formed) and lubing system - the thing is lowered and has a stretched chopperlike front end on it, and wheelies like hell!
@@jamesbeason9256 btw +1 front and -2 rear is equivalent to a -5 on the rear...none of my smaller cc bikes have enough power in the top gears to hold that sort of gearing - hell, less than -4 rear on the 125s and I lose the use of 5th gear on anything more than downhill :P
@@the_mad_ratter You probably know more than I about a gy6.
But, these engines can spin 10k rpm. I don't know where your rev limter is set. I'd ditch it, get an adjustable timing box.
BUT, I ja3ve drag raced for 45 years. Most recent 675hp 540lb o torque NA big block chevy.
You shift at your red line. Mines 7200 on the chevy.
You really need a dyno to see the shift point. Your butt dyno will feel your bike nose over just a little. Your hp just took a hit.
Drop 500rpms, theres your red line and your shift point. Thats why, back in the 60s 70s you'd see a bracket car guy miss a shft, instant windowed block. No room for missed shift at 6500rpm. You probly know that the term 'Red line' is arbitary. A lot of motors wil rap til they blow up. I think mopars do that.
Its actually a movable needle on your tach. You decide thru track time and dyno. Chassis set up is 'yuge'. We measure 60 ft 120 feet times for our hole shots. When the car hits the traps it's right on the edge of grenading.
Racin is racin. I build and test my r/c cars the same way.
@@the_mad_ratter Idk if your engine is stock or a monster. The valve springs go first. I doubt you could blow the engine up, throw a rod. Your more likely to float a valve first There is your first mechanical rev limiter. You may drop a valve.
So, if you have a stock engine, remove your rev limter your mechanical rev line is 500-1000 rpms before the valves float. You may have ran out or hp before that happens.
RPMs come from large by huge cams and boolit proof bottom ends. These engines a needle bearinged engines. Valvetrain is the weakest point.
I hope I've been some help,madratter
What happens if the rollers are too light?? Will it never shift?
Pretty much yes.
Yes it will not .no roller will push to higher gear in variator if it's too light
Measure a man's success on how high you get after bouncing off rock bottom.
Change roller or contra spring first for fully standard scooter?