308 Win - AR-10 - Lapua Scenar 155 & 167gr with RL 15
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- čas přidán 23. 04. 2019
- We've finally got a good shooting AR-10 upper chambered in 308 Winchester, so now it's time to start testing. Today I'm trying out the Lapua Scenars in 155gr and 167gr varieties with Alliant Reloder 15. The 167gr has shot well in my early tests with the Krieger barrel but it's time to try some different charge weights.
/ johnnysreloadingbench
/ reloading
![[Don't Try This] Pushing the 308 Win to 300 Win Mag (Bat Machine, Alpha Munitions)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/uXkmcpk7Brc/mqdefault.jpg)
The Real doll and the bullets both have something in common: they both produce great loads.
Jimmy Smith of 16895 Maple Ave., Syracuse, NY 65589, you're the best!
Freakin' legend
Hahahahaa.
Hahhahahaha
Hahahahaaa.
I can't stop Laughing.
Best Vieo Clip Ever.!!!
My wife watched it. After we Googled the doll, she laughed pretty hard then punctuated the laugh with " Ohhh, that Johnny!".
Jimmy "Nice Guy" Smith!👍😆
Hahahahaha, Love this channel. Thanks Johnny!
"Get mom involved....make it a family thing...." LOL
finally somebody got the joke.
I enjoyed the real doll story. Good to know there are stand up people in the world who will make sure your toys make it to your house on time. I had good luck with the 155.5g Berger over H4895 .
LMFAO, real doll, omg! Way too funny, what made it was your calm and matter of fact demeanor, like you had no idea!! Perfect execution!!!! 5 *****!
Omg 1:30 you sir are funny.
I got in on the Midsouth Hornady brass sale for my Grendel. $38/100 is the best price, by far, that I've found! Usually I pay about $25/50, so any time I can get brass, even Hornady, is a deal! Besides, my entire Y.T. channel is dedicated to '2A on a budget', and I have to keep my subscribers posted on bargains. Thanks, Johnny
I commented yesterday that I had watched tons of these data videos and never saw a bullseye until yesterday. Today's video is knocking it out of the park . I will re watch this and try to duplicate some of these loads.
Man oh man. I said to myself a few minutes ago its time to head to the reloading room.
BOOOM!!!!!! I get a Jrb video update.
So watching my favorite Tuber and prepping my 6.5 brass
larry k webb
Saaaaaame..
oh damn that intro was funny as hell thanks for still be able to squeeze out a video once in while love your work
@Johnny’s Reloading Bench thanks for doing what you do brother
You gotta love a Jarhead making fun of a Squid!
H4895 is a favorite powder for me... It's super clean!
Love your vids John!! Keep em coming!!!
My son put together an AR10 from Aero precision and i threw together something for him to shoot with some left overs, Sig brass, 150 grain hornady FMJ BT with 41 gn of IMR 3031, ran just over 2600 FPS and shot 1/2 inch groups with a $80 tasco scope i threw on it i had laying around, had zero misfires, or failures to feed or eject and brass looks perfect, I didn't even try a different load, LOL
Your videos are so good man !! Love it
Thanks for covering this, I just got an AR-10 upper in .308. I will be watching with great interest.
FIRST thank you for putting in all that work ! I am on almost the exact same road , I have been watching your 308 vids back to back for the last couple hours and man how cool its been seeing you go through the same things as I am/was .....always will be . Please keep going !
I have one thing for you that has been giving me good luck that I havent seen you try AR COMP powder. I keep coming back to it over and over I have about 8 powders under my belt and a bunch of projo's and they all seem to shoot real good from my BA/Aero . I really think you will love AR COMP it is a smidge better than RE15 for me everywhere all the way up to 175 SMK and regularly get one single digit SD load.....however that load is almost never the best group ??..... I am going to start down the road of 178 ELD-M this weekend for the first time . Good Luck to you
The typical "Camp Perry" powder of choice for M14s is Accurate 2520. I've had some very good luck with Hornady's 75 grain using info from your channel. I'd give AA2520 a chance in your AR-10.
I was watching this as I was getting ready for work. When you mentioned the real doll I choked on my toothpaste. What a great way to start the day. Thanks Johnny!
Your problem was the terrible Hornady brass. The primer pocket problems are well documented. Lapua is king in the brass department. It's all I use anymore.
Thank you. Great video with a lot of good and useful information. Liking the 167 grain projectile. I like IMR 4895 btw, works with 308 and 5.56 and keeps life simple only needing to stock one powder.
One more important point if I may. If you study the OCW and Satterlie methods of load development you know that peak accuracy and efficiently occurs when you have "flat" spot in the upward march of velocity (which directly relates to pressure). Between 44.1 and 44.4 you had the exact same velocity. That's a flat spot. Not a coincidence that the accuracy was best at the high side of that pressure zone. I think Satterlie would suggest loading right in the middle of that flat spot.
I've probably watched this video like 10 times throughout the years. I'm sitting here in the Philippines, watching these again thinking about hunting season and I've never paid attention to the "Real Doll" portion before. Now I have "Real Doll" in my Google search history!!!! PRICELESS! I love that you can keep us on our toes.
Always a good day when u get a notification there’s a new jrb video
Agreed
Hey man I just noticed you passed 50k subscribers. I've been around since about 16k just a few short years ago. I've learned so much from you and am glad to see your channel still growing.
Side note, I'm getting ads on your videos here in the UK.
small primer is where it's at - in FTR I shoot 44.2 grains of varget under a 200 grain bullet. That's a SUPER hot load. Alpha brass lasts 20+ reloads. Check'em out. Cheaper and more consistent than laupa...and american made.
I've heard good stuff about the Alpha! I'll try them soon!
I was blowing primers in my ar10 with 175gr nosler cc and imr4895. My charge was 3-4 grains below max charge. I tried it again another time and turned my gas system down and now it works just fine. Has to do with bolt timing and bolt moving before case releases from chamber so it gives the primer room to come loose.
The failures to feed that left the heavy gouge on the brass are from a hard edge on the leading edge of the chamber itself, it needs to be just ever so slightly rounded/break the edge......
Edit: pressure signs with the 155s are likely the longer bullet taking up some more case capacity, and the bearing surface of the bullet itself, added to the higher powder charges.
Edit 2: the 155 bullets from either Lapua or Sierra are designed for use in specialty Palma rifles running 30+” barrels with 1:13-1:15” twist at upwards of almost 3000fps in 308 Palma loads. They are known for phenomenal accuracy at 800, 900, and 1000 yards.
I was thinking the same from the start as well, and he shoud've started at the lower charge.
With the 167 bullets, the 44.4 grain load the first 4 velocities 2586, 2606, 2601, 2602 have an extreme spread of 21fps....very nice! and the 4 shot group was in the .4" range. The slam and jam round that was buggered up dropped waaaay off in velocity and out of the group. This is your load or should be explored further. Great barrel, great bullets = great performance. Just my opinion here. Another good video sir!
You sir, made my evening. I have a feeling a couple of your viewers will be scrambling to clear their browser history after trying to figure out what you were talking about.
Got to hide it from the wife
I was only listening a little to the video and then I saw him put up the guys address and he said real doll and it hit me. Lol, compensation is indeed required for that kind of mistake
OK you asked for suggestions on powder. I have 3 .308 configs.:26" hvy bbl Remington bolt gun, DPMS G2 20" bbl and M1A 22" bbl. I load for a hunter friend with a M&P 10 18" bbl. Anyway, I have a lot of data on the 168 gr. to 180 gr. bullets. I could get Nosler 168 CC OTM when Sierra 168 OTM was not available. So used many of those. Anyway my suggestion for powder is IMR 8208 XBR.
It is temperature insensitive, and runs through the volumetric throwers very well with the small grain size. I like it so well I have stocked up on it like you did with the AR.
8208-XBR, 168 ELD-M , federal brass and CCI 200’s is really great in my LaRue OBR. ES’s in low teens.
Move the rest to a couple of inches in front of the receiver, then reach up and grab the forearm, pulling it to the rear and slightly down. Notice in this video how the forearm jumps up during recoil. By using the technique of grabbing the forearm, you will eliminate MANY flyers! The bullet is in the barrel for about .200 of an inch during recoil, and how you manage the recoil for that short time really improves the groups. When you grab the forearm, essentially you are adding weight to the gun.
Breaking the habit of being a bag squeezer with your left hand will seem uncomfortable at first, then you see the light. AI taught this technique to a retired Marine Sniper, he was amazed to say the least, changed his technique and suddenly all his rifles shot better. Yesterday, I watched him shoot 2" groups at 500 yards with a Tikka with tuned hand loads with a Leupold 5-25.
Great sense of humor!
As usual great (and funny) video!
If you look at the Vihtavuori reloading data you will see that 167 and 155 Scenars have more or less the same max. charge. For N140 (similar to RL15) the max. charge for the 155 is 43.4, while the 167 it is at 44.0. Somehow the 155 must be less slippery than the 167.
I just finished loading some 180 grain Nosler Partitions in a lever 308 and settled on 44.1 grains of Varget. Seems to be 100% case fill with only the slightest of ejector marks. Gave me 2600 fps. Shocked me with that velocity. Varget really is a wonderful powder.
Great humor as always! luv ya
Haven't had a laugh like that in a while. You deadpanned that "real doll" story to perfection.
Try vit N140 with a Sierra 155gr HPBT that is what I have been recommended from our local gunsmith who is a very very good shooter and gun smith.
Great Jim Tomis another great video
In my experience, using 155 gr hornady Amax with RL15 I've had major pressure signs and issues in the 46.gr+ charge range. i did a set with 47 grains, (hornady states in their manual 47.3 is max) and three of the five i fired the extractor ripped through the rim resulting in having to beat the fired case out of the chamber. However, mine with the 155s grouped nearly identically to your test here. Also, didn't have issues of primers being blown out. I've got to get a hold of some 168s myself and see if it does as well as yours did. good info Johnny, im glad to see im not the only one having issues with the 155 grain pills.
Another Great Video! And Real Doll... LOL, apparently those are made a few miles from us here in San Diego... Made the news when they opened, not really family friendly... But some need a friend, so it seems... 😂
That was hilarious! Well done sir.
In my AR-10, before its recent rebarreling, 175 SMK's with RL-15 was my go to and the new barrel had some good luck with 168 Hornady OTM with both 2520 and Varget using the Service rifle data out of the 10th Edition Hornady manual. I have only just begun the workup with the new barrel, but finding something that shoots well seems like it could be very easy. Oh yeah and 2520 while grouping fairly well had terrible SD's, like 30's and 40's, but both powders shot 1.1" or better.
Great, now I have to clear my search history. :D It may be that the hotter loads are slamming the BCG back so quickly that it is having trouble picking up the next round and locking the bolt back.
Conan Mills the cycling speed can be slowed by installing a weight in the bolt carrier. I use one of David Tubb's weights in my Ar-15 with great success.
@@dankerr6914 He has an adjustable gas block. He should be able to tune that out.
Awesome video. I plan to start reloading this winter for 308 and maybe 223 (depends on if I want to go over 300 yards often enough). Even though it's a cheap gun, my Savage Axis II XP has been so much fun.
Winter purchase will either be an AR10 in 308 (maybe 6.5CM) or a Garand. Tough choice.
Hey Johnny, I had the same problems with my DPMS G2 .308. First the misfeeding. After looking at mags and gas system and ammo I found that my gun would cycle reliably after I installed a Tubbs Flatwire spring. The factory spring in my G2 was very stiff especially at the back of the cycle, so much so that it was hard to lock the bolt back with the charging handle. Replacing that spring fixed all of my misfeeding issues. I don't know if that will work on your gun, but the Tubbs springs are only around $25 so its worth a shot. I also had the problem with the brass getting tore up and having blown primers with moderate loads using 150gr bullets. I haven't really solved that one, but the best performance I got was using H4895. With H4895 I can get around 2620fps with no pressure signs. I was using Hornady brass and WLR primers, and the ejector swipes started showing up at around 41.5 grains of H4895. I'll be watching to see if you can come up with a better load that I can try. Thanks for all the great content and keep it coming!
I built a 308 in an ar10 once, had has problems at first, enlarged the gas port, then adjustable gas block, them started to take some coils from the recoil spring, started to function perfect, but I will tell you that the ar10 platform seems to be a finicky beast
Thats why the the military dropped it like a hot potato...
All hail jimmy smith
What a great guy!
Some of my ideas in another post for 155's...
this video made my day.
Hey JRB great video and even the over pressure helps, whether it was a fail to you or not. Its allways helpful to see what can go bad and what to look for. Information on a failure is almost as good as information on perfection. Thankfully i havent had this experiance yet but im sure its only to come with more testing. Thanks for the content and great work. Also I heard that lake city was making ammo for hornady, their Frontier line. I have been using some of the brass from those. Dont have any true lake city to compare it with but it seems to be good stuff in my limited knowledge. Maybe a real test from the master? It would be nice to know for sure that lake city is sitting on shelves all over the country ripe and easy for the picking
Thanks for the video!!
Those 167gr loads were amazing for a gas gun in 308. I’d revisit there. My LR-308 originally had a ballistic Advantage 20” but it shot like crap. I swapped it for a 24” Criterion and found a really nice load wit’s 175gr SMK and 43gr RL-15. Gets me 2700fps and it’s dead on out to 600 yards so far.
CCI primers and H4895 will help. You also need to polish a slight chamfer on the junction with the barrel.
175 SMK’s with 4064. That should put some real nice groups on the board.
Great vid. That Krieger is gonna be a shooter.
M118LR round the barrel is cut for is a 175SMK.... Yeah it should shoot them well
If u add weight to the buffer system and a springco spring or a flat wire spring either one itll help brass life alot as well as be a little more forgiving with powder selection, they also make adjustable gas keys that can make a significant difference also. The adj. Key really makes it nice with gas adjustment because u can leave the gas a lil on the open side yet ur able to slow unlocking of the bolt. Once u find the sweet spot u can semi stake the plug and itll never move, at least mine hasnt in over 2500 rounds but itll still move if you need it to adjust.
Make sure the barrel ext. Doesn't have a sharp edge.
Also if primers are popping its could be a timing issue like its unlocking just before pressure drop as bullet exits barrel...... after looking at the brass d definitely say running a faster powder and/or more weight should solve alot of ur mangled brass.
arcomp is my go to 308 ar10 powder but I'm running some weight in the buffer to slow opening. If 3031 works great ur definitely having timing issues with slower powders.
Jb bore paste and polish just inside the seating stem. Helps with seating and no marks on bullets
CFE 223, IMR 8208 XBR and Varget are my best powders for my AR 10... great video as always!!!
I definitely should have mentioend CFE 223 and 8208 XBR!
IMR 4064 as well as BLC2 works pretty good too
I have kind of a love hate with CFE223, it works, but it's so darn fine, I end up making a mess with powder, 4064 and Varget are much nicer to work with.
Definitely an interesting video from the very good to the horrible. With those 167’s shooting great and the over pressure issues with the 155’s. It would be great to know what the four shot group size was for the 167 gr. Lapua with 44.4 gr.”s of RL17 load. You would have had five in one hole if it wasn’t for that failure to feed. Keep up the good work Johnny!
Real doll, OMG you're best video yet
Time for 338 lapua mag
I had WLR primers which I sent back due to having a very small pin hole burn through the edge/shoulder on a load that was definitely Not Hot. I too had a primer spit out, but I had attributed it to perhaps pressure. I looked at and detected a varied appearance among the unused, boxed primers. Some were flater, having a sharp shoulder, and others more rounded/domed shape. The primers were purchased quite some time ago, during that period when the supply from all the manufacturers had dried up, and Win. was all I could find. Winchester people were very good about having them picked up and returned to them. You might want to look at those WLR'S.
Thank you for information.
I really enjoyed the video. My only comment is that Hornady brass is softer than other brands. In the AR 10 that would be the last selection in a case in my opinion that one would use.. You would be better off with just bulk Winchester. When I called and talked to Hornady about some problems I was having with a set of their dies and brass the guy on the phone told me that they intentionally make their brass softer. He didn't provide an answer as to why but I can only guess it's so you have to scrap it earlier and buy more of it. Keep these videos coming!
Also if you compare the head to Lapua, the ejector groove is much wider equal to the groove and rim of the Lapuas. Also the head around the primer in the groove is Wider .390 vs .410ish. can't remember of the top of my head but Lapua was at least 0.015" greater in diameter that Hornady in groove. So even if not harder, significantly more brass in the head increasing strength.
I like to use, Varget, IMR 4064 with the Hornady and Speer 168 BTHP. I have use federal and LC 7.62 brass and remington LR primers in the 20" AR10. For what it's worth Varget has a smoother, gentler cycle to it and single digit SDs. I also keep velocities much lower than in my Ruger American Predator 308 with an 18" barrel and 175s. Always less than 2700 or I get malfunctions and torn up headstamps. I also full length size but only bump the shoulder about .003" and it runs better as long as I don't go up to published max. I got so frustrated with the limitations of the Aero Precision that I got a bolt gun just so I could tinker with hotter loads. My ar10 is only able to use my M80 clone, the two 168 bthp, as well as norma 308 match with 168 SMK. It's a 1/10 twist but prefers lighter bullets and lighter loads. It is very accurate and friends really love to shoot it when we go camping and shoot long range. But I get better performance from the lightweight plastic Ruger. I think it's the nature of the beast with semi auto 308. Perhaps there is some advanced gunsmithing mods that can get it to run like a 6.5?
I like the 167gr at 44.4gr. The shot that dropped was the round with the feeding issue. It caused you to come off the rifle after 4 great shots, also the jam could have bumped the projectile a little off center. You should measure that 4 shot group.
Real doll 😂 ... Wait, what does it say about us that got that joke!?! 😲
Or the man who thought it up lol.
The issue with the 155's is that the nose is longer, and you're seating them too deep, increasing pressure. You mentioned increasing the gas but your ejection pattern with 155's was showing overgassing. I'm sure you figured it out, I'm typing this before I see the end of the video. The overpressure was causing your bolt velocity to increase, causing your feed failures. Those 167's were superb though. I use Berger 155.5 in my bolt gun for thousand yard shots. The scenar 155's might be better suited to bolt guns due to long noses and mag length limitations.
Hello all, been waiting for a new vid, cool
Stellar!
Johnny, the velocity dip usually means there's an accuracy node there. A ladder test in smaller increments would most likely show that. I'm a believer in that method after using it develop Varget and 8208 XBR loads in 223 with the 70 RDF. Sub half moa accuracy.
I've been doing a lot of load development lately for my 308 bolt gun, Hornady brass, WLR primers, Reloder 15, and various 150 gn bullets. It seems RL15 likes the bullet to be touching the powder but once it starts getting compressed things get weird. The first sign is the velocity decreases with additional powder but eventually starts going back up. My best groups and lowest SD's are with the bullet just touching the powder.
In other words you're sending the real doll as previously used but in clean condition.
Glad to see you found a barrel for the Aero M5. My Ballistic Advantage is not shooting well either.
But I've been wondering if the design of a bullet has more effect on the pressures than its mass does. I ran these loads through Quickload; the charges for the 167 looked fine,. But QL says the 155 charges were high; max pressure would be reached at 46.3 grains.
I use Varget & N140 under Sierra 150’s for hunting. N140 gets slightly better groups & keeps barrel cooler.
It looks to me like your carrier speed is too fast. Like it’s out running the magazine. Maybe try a heavier spring and buffer to try and slow it down a little. I bet that would solve your problems....maybe. Great video as always!
I rewatched this video for some reference data and it’s crazy how accurate that Krieger is. I decided after having gone through 3 barrels (2 from Ballistic Advantage and 1 Criterion) that I’m going to order a 20 inch Bartlein from Craddock Precision. my 308 AR is the only rifle I can’t shoot consistently sub MOA. Fingers crossed because i just spent all my lunch money 😂
I want to know how that Krieger is treating you? I've got a 20" BA in 308 and I'm struggling to get ~1.5" moa at 100 yards. Cheaper ammo will open up to 5". I can shoot the same with my ruger 10/22 using cheap ammo and it's got a POS scope. LOL
@@brentrasmussen2440 sooo I ended buying a Wilson Combat 20-inch heavy fluted barrel. It’s shooting really well, not like Johnny’s Krieger but I’m shooting groups that are 0.6-0.75 MOA. Kriegers are worth it but there’s a long wait and they’re never in stock anymore
@@billbee235 thanks, I've been looking at the WC as well, and it's about half the $$$$. My real goal is sub MOA, as I've got a bolt gun when I want bug holes.
20:23 "Darn, Darn darny, darn darn!!" -Good cop/bad cop Lego movie
I bet that was one hell of a birthday!!!!
I have a sig sauer 716-g2 that I have had for more than a year. It will shoot just as good of groups as you just shot. I have shot a lot of different bullets through it and it has never jammed or failed to feed. The 168 matching shoots the best
I got my Compass back, well and new one was sent to me. It has shot the Hornady 155g Match bullets great, The Speer 168's not so well. Next round of testing will be the Hornady 168 match and Match Monster 168's from Mid South.
My favorite powder in 308 is 8208 with S&B primers. H4895 is second favorite. Never had much luck with varget. If I want to use a ball powder it is always AA2460, beats any other ball powders for me by a mile in 308 and 5.56
Man I’m waiting for my parts to get shipped and watching some videos in anticipation for the arrival but at about 20:00 in the video were the cartridge hung up and ruined the 44.4 group I was right there with you Johnny I was just as mad 😠 like really I cannot believe that happened
I use RS52 (Reload Swiss which is used in some Reloder powders) over 175HPMK out to 1000m in HK’s AR (MR308/MR762)
Between you and West Desert Shooter I'm getting an education.
May God have mercy on “Jimmy Smith’s” soul......God only knows how many Glitter-Bombs are about to end up at his door 😂
Depends how much H110/W296 I put behind those XTP 357 and 44 cal Magnum bullets.
Look for the primer in the buffer tube. Visions of 6.5 Grendel. Federal primers are larger..
Another great job but you might have been a little rough on Jimmy.
(No relationship) 😂
Tell your brother Jimmy I said "HI!" and tell your niece happy birthday for me. I hope you get to join in on the Real Doll fun!!!!!
Johnny you made me laugh hard! Thank You!
I’ve noticed that Winchester primers are about half a thousandth smaller than cci or federal. I noticed gas leakage around Winchester primers well below max charges. Switched to cci all was good
I am shooting the small primer Lapua brass as well 42.0 gr of IMR 8208-XBR with a 168gr SMK and when I do my part can get down to .4" groups!
8208 XBR is another one I forgot to mention! I might go with that next time. I love 8208 XBR!
@@JohnnysReloadingBench CFE 223 is another on that will give you really high velocities if you want to try a spherical powder, I am getting about 2750fps with 42.0 gr of 8208-XBR out of a 24" barrel with a 168gr SMK. Glad to see more videos coming from you Johnny, I just moved so putting my reloading bench back together from scratch and its taking FOREVER!!!!!
Hey Johnny I got to thinking you might be able to use a harmonic balancer pulley puller/installer that can be rented at auto parts store to get that case out of the other Krieger barrel. If u rent tool go to home improvements store and get matching thread bolt that puller uses so u can epoxy that bolt to case pull care and return puller with out having care stuck to puller bolts
Also shot factory perfecta 147 grain stuff without issue or pressure spikes.
155 palma bullets seem to like being seated loooong. At least that's the case with sierra's 2156 in my rifle. Seated within magazine length they seem to be funky with pressure and grouping. If seated close to or into the lands beyond magazine length and single fed they behave completely different, much better groups.
you should get one of the caldwell brass catchers off amazon so you dont have to chase brass from your gas guns!
I meant to say in my last comment, ditch the adjustable gasblock, put on a standard and buy a gemtech suppressed bolt carrier. Should fix your gas issues.
I didn't have any luck with the lighter bullets in my AR-10 either. I have factory ammo that usually shoots an SD around 10, but I'm luck if I get a sub-2" group. 168+ seem to be the way to go with that twist. I'm working on a load with Varget and 168gr ELD Match.
I’ve got 7 175smk’s in.75” from my 16” Daniel defense dd5v3…put 3 in 3” in steel@518…cold bore hadn’t shot from there in weeks…needless to say there barrels are incredible.
Real doll thats awesome!!!!
168 grain Sierra matchking / 42 grains of reloader 15. That's the most accurate Sierra matchking round I've been able to develop. And it's also the accuracy load in the Sierra book.