2nded! SonicCD to me really is the 4th major Sonic title that I wish I'd been able to play as a kid, but didn't get to until almost a decade later. Definitely a missed opportunity for Sega!
Especially because Sonic Xtreme had a really rough development. Sonic CD would have a great alternative that could have been ready at the launch of the Saturn.
Sonic Team had wanted to do something different, Nights specifically. They should have kept the Saturn game in Japan and had once of the teams there make it.
I think there is a lot of business politics we'll never fully understand between Sega Japan and Sega USA. I mean yes the Saturn was way too expensive when it came out with hit or miss games, but you gotta think parents we're already pissed with kids wanting the 32x and then again with the Sega CD. By the time Saturn came out, they had already seriously damaged their reputation.
@@calebpriceproductions2412 They likely were better off having Traveller's Tales make a proper 3D Sonic game for the Saturn while ST was busy making the games they wanted to make, would've been a win-win considering I remember reading that Jon Burton wanted to make 3D games after Toy Story and was excited at the idea of a proper 3D Sonic game when Sega reached out to him about it
Sonic CD as a launch title would have been awesome! The Saturn was built to handle those types of games and would have chewed it up and spit it out. I'm curious if they ever even considered it.
Not only was the Sega SAturn only Sonic game Sonic X-Treme got cancelled but the Saturn's other Sonic game, the arcade port of Sonic Championship a.k.a. Sonic the Fighters was also cancelled from the Saturn making Sonic Jam, Sonic 3D Blast, and Sonic R the only Sonic related games on the Saturn with Sonic R being the only original game yet was only a spin-off though not an exclusive as it also got a PC port a year later as well. If only Sega would had just port a flawless version of Sonic CD for the Saturn or include it as part of Sonic Jam the Saturn would had at least got something good on its library.
Ah someone else is aware of Sonic the Fighters & how it was supposed to get a Saturn Release after Sega had already pulled the plug on the system. Sonic CD & Knuckles Chaotix could have both benefited from being released on Sega Saturn. Sonic Eraser & Sega Sonic packaged together could have been great as well.
Sonic CD is a really good game. An enhanced Saturn version would've been cool but Sega didn't seem to have its thinking cap on when launching the Saturn and was in a bit of a panic! Even if it didn't sell well, at least we would have had a proper Sonic game, and a gorgeous looking one (one would've hoped!). As for Sonic R, it's a fun game once you know the tracks. And those controls: use the shoulder buttons!!! Or the 3D controller.
Stanton Bentley Also enhanced Sonic the Hedgehog 3 and knuckles in one game called Sonic the Hedgehog 3 Limited Edtion or Knuckles Chaotix or even better Sonic and Knuckles Chaotix, Sega Sonic Arcade game and Sonic CD would have been great launch titles for the USA. Wish they thought about it. Also, Sonic the Hedgehog 2 special edition or a compilation game consist of a CD version of Sonic 1, Sonic 2 Special edition, 3 and Knuckles in Sonic Jam.
Truth be told, much of Sega's trouble came from Sonic Team wanting to do something new instead of another Sonic game. Sega of America was simply ill equipped to handle a fully 3D game like that. They definitely should have made Sonic CD a 2.5 experience with polygon bonus stages.
Extremely sad to see a true 3D Sonic game never seem to fruition on the Sega Saturn. At least the solution known as Sonic Adventure came out on the Dreamcast to replace what should have came on the Saturn later.
Sonic 3D Blast lol? To be fair, the special stages were fully polygonal 3D graphics; so between that and the pre-rendered 3d graphics on the isometric design, it technically it was the first Sonic "3d game", I guess lol.
A+ video as always!! It is truly baffling that Sega would release a console without Sonic! I definitely agree they should have ported Sonic CD if they could not get a 3d Sonic in time.
It would have probably been better if Knuckles Chaotix was developed and released as a Saturn launch game as opposed to 32X. Even with the mixed opinions , having a "Sonic" with a graphical fidelty closer to something like Astal surely would have sold a few Saturns. Sonic R does one thing very well , and that is its visually great , it shows off the hardware alot better than most 3rd party offerings.
That was ironically outsourced to a third party studio? Travellers Tales are behind that work. Check out GameHut Jon Burton tells how HE helped make that game.
Sonic r wasn't really done by a third party. Travelers tales were virtually an internal sega studio just like sonic software who did the shining games.
Both were basically 2nd party devs at that point, albeit Sonic Software started as an internal Sega team , while Traveller's Tales started off as a 3rd party
I'm pretty sure I can recite the entire soundtrack to Sonic R. Spent so many hours of that game on PC with three of my friends: two on keyboard, one on a gamepad, and one played with a steering wheel!
10:16 Dude, you need to be taken "Back In Time" so you can "Work it Out" with TJ Davis' vocals in the songs so you can "Feel the Sunshine" while "Living in the City" with the "Diamond in the Sky" so you too can be "Super Sonic Racing" with all the other Sega fans because "You're My Number One" Sega-themed CZcamsr.
Gawd Sega wasted the Saturn. I think Sega's handling of the Saturn was about as bad as Apples Pipen. I loved the Saturn, but I know why it failed and it was simply piss poor planning, and the lost of consumer confidence with their 32X Mars project crap.
Sega's President also let things get out of hand by having a clear divide between SOA, and SOJ. He should have never allowed the 32X, and building a system initially for 2D was also short sided.
Mario 64 was soooooo good that sega knew that they could not make a 3d game that could compete with Mario...I remember playing Mario 64 thinking how could it get better than this. Saying that I wish they made a game using the Sonic Jam engine, but by that time I understand it was to late....good video keep them coming
I would have loved a 2d sonic game on the saturn that had all the effects the saturn can do. I believe the reason it never happened is because during the time of the saturn everyone wanted a 3d sonic game.
A shame too. Sonic the Fighters would have been a nice addition to the Saturn library. And you're right, it was Sonic's first fully polygon game, but I was speaking more in terms of console releases. I should have been more specific.
@@SegaLordX it's hardly understandable Fighters got cancelled. It was based on Fighting Vipers' engine which had a Saturn release. So I guess it would not have been that hard to port too. This game is meh anyway. Not a terrible loss for the Saturn.
I remember buying Sonic R and 3D Blast from Funco Land back in the day and being highly disappointed. Sega definitely dropped the ball not translating their successful IP's to the Saturn. Great video as always!
Sonic world, Sonic R and Sonic into Dreams were the Sonic games I have always wanted on the Saturn. A slower paced sonic game where you can explore a big open world. I can’t even begin to count how many hours I spent playing those three. They were so great. Maybe that’s why I liked Sonic Boom a lot.
I just realized how much the box art and game box art for the American Saturn reminds me of the boring box art for the Master System. I agree that nothing sega did that gen would have stopped Sony, but bringing over the Japanese box art, as Japanese anime was becoming mainstream might have help. I wonder why they ditched the interesting art style of the Genesis for the sterile, to say the least, art direction of the Saturn.
You overstate the level of fun that can be had with 3D Blast and understate how wonderful Sonic World is on the Jam collection. Blast gets repetitive and boring, fast. World feels like the Sonic equivalent to the first painting from Mario 64. I absolutely love it and recommend highly that Saturn people should get a copy
I know people who adore 3D Blast. It's extremely easy to get into. I stated that it wasn't the Sonic game I wanted, but I've played enough games to understand who 3D Blast's target audience was. As for Sonic World, if you know my adoration for Sonic Team and the experience I had with Sonic Adventure in 1998, it was high praise indeed. ;)
I liked 3D Blast, though I agree Sonic World was a cool idea. The main problem however is that it was just a brief tease of a proper Saturn Sonic platformer, very bittersweet in hindsight. It's a shame they didn't put more work into it to make it a full nostalgia platformer, like Pac Man World which is a retro 3D game but with similar classic games and extras added on as a bonus.
3D Blast was mostly a technical showcase for the Genesis in its latter stages of life. It’s ultimately a mediocre game with gameplay which boils down to tedious exploration. It could have been a much better game with more advanced physics which would have allowed for deeper and more varied gameplay (spinning sections in Rusty Ruin were a rare example of this). Also more point A to Point B level design with obstacles and platforming with some alternative routes and exploration rather than boring empty sandbox levels.
Hey man! Great video, just bought a Saturn so I'm looking around for other CZcamsrs who have one. I knew going into it that Sonic wasn't very present on Saturn but I'm still looking forward to playing Sonic R at some point. Will probably wait for the Genesis Mini for the first three Sonic games and Sonic and Knuckles so I don't see much need to get Jam but its still cool that they at least ported those games over (though, like you said, it was kind of a bonehead call not to port Sonic CD). I would really like to see if they actually had working gameplay for Sonic Adventure on Saturn before they scrapped it for the Dreamcast. The only thing I've seen so far is that Sky Chase Act 2 scene where the Tornado transforms. Looking forward to watching more of your stuff!
Sonic was considered too colorful and children-oriented games for the "adult" Saturn audience wanted to capture. But they probably discovered their own mistake later in the life of the system, hence the hodgepodge of games that appeared during the late Saturn years. And Sonic Team was too busy making Nights, that's why they gave SOA the task of developing such game.
Every time somebody has Sonic X-Treme show up in their video, they never seem to point out what a giant piece of garbage it looked like it was. I'm so glad Sega waited at LEAST five years before ruining 3D Sonic.
I do agree that Sonic would've helped the Saturn, but I have to admit that it's one of my least favorite Sega franchises. The Saturn is where Sega stole my heart from Nintendo so to speak, as it was the stuff that wasn't popular in the late '90s that I was into. Those games like Galactic Attack, Dragon Force, Enemy Zero, and Soukyugurentai were really getting me riled up, and Nintendo wasn't offering up the kind of strange stuff I was really enjoying. It's bitter-sweet to me that the library that, in it's time, was a flop and a failure became the very thing that drew me toward the Saturn, and later the Dreamcast. There was no Nintendo analog for Lunacy or Virtua Cop, and Sega slowly began to take center stage for me at the time, yet Sonic still has yet to win me over, in spite of owning his games.
I was a Sega fan long before Sonic ever showed up, but I've always appreciated his initial outings on the Genesis. They weren't especially deep or engrossing, but they did have a sort of visceral quality to the experience. I loved fast and colorful arcade games, and Sonic just always seemed to mimic that style of play.
Sega Lord X I understand your point about Sonic not being a particularly ‘deep’ game but on the other hand there’s a huge amount of depth that goes into delivering that visceral experience; physics, level design and art direction. The Sonic 3 & K levels are some of the most complex platform levels ever designed.
Před 5 lety+2
As a Genesis player, when the Sega Saturn came out I was dreaming with if, and the Dreamcast too... But the Genesis was my last video console... Until I bought the PS2 used has hell, mainly to play GT4.
There was also a port of the arcade game Sonic the Fighters considered, but the developers decided the Saturn couldn't do it justice. A shame, it and Sonic R could have at least held the Saturn up slightly as unique Sonic titles.
That "glimpse" of the messy engine you were referring too was an accident. The Sega execs were shown the wrong build of the game. Lol. By time the lead developer got there to inform them, it was too late. They had to start over. Not too mention at one moment, STI was using the NiGHTs engine at one time--without the permission of Yuji Naka. And when he caught wind, he threatened to quit (as usual).
@@almostliterally593 Bro...they collapsed on themselves. And for what? Pettiness and incompetence. And with all the mistakes they made, it all stemmed from one thing. Sega's inability to get along with eachother. They never saw eye to eye. They always tried to undermine the other. They was always disagreements...with it always ending up with Japan and US branches doing stupid shit that kept bringing about failures. And it was always out is spite. The 32X. The Saturn architecture. The lack of games from from Japan for it. Favoring 3D over 2D for it (Saturn was an amazing 2D powerhouse. Dafuq, man). The sabatoge of Sonic Xtreme at every turn. The list goes on, man. And it's disheartening. Poor Sega of Europe. Lol. They were stuck in the middle like "wtf." Fuckn Sega of USA & Japan, yo. The Saturn was the peak of their bullshit. And it followed them all the way through the Dreamcast. And Dreamcast was an amazing console. But it was too late. Sega causes their own demise. You never saw Nintendo do that shit among branches. And that is why they still around. And they have had a few failures too
@@almostliterally593 I still play Dreamcast and Genesis every so often. Lol. I just bought a softmodded memorykart with Pseudo Saturn just so I can play backups and imports on my Sega Saturn lol I still love Sega games ...still a bit sore how they left the console market tho
Hell, when Sega of America and Sega of Japan weren't fighting each other, they were still fighting among themselves. You really have to respect Nintendo's focus of company and IP first. Sega was all about ego and personal feelings. It did them in at the end.
A 3D Sonic would still have been drastically overshadowed by Mario 64, imo. I think if Sega had a stunning 2D Sonic ready for launch or at least early in the life of the Saturn then it would have helped a lot in the Western markets. You said something in another video, that Sega was never going to defeat Sony and especially not by trying to mimic them. But the Saturn could've carved out a respectable niche as a 2D powerhouse with gorgeous arcade-perfect ports, 2D RPGs, Shmups, etc. Imagine a Saturn that launched with Streets of Rage 4, with big beautiful 2D sprites and backgrounds. They abandoned their best IPs, and tried to fight Sony on Sony's terms. The Saturn couldn't do 3D polygon based games the way the Playstation could, it wasn't going to win that fight. But while 3D was the new, shiny toy that everyone was excited about there was definitely an opportunity to perfect 2D and use the Saturn's capabilities to do 3D in a way that would work. Their architecture, while apparently quite difficult to develop for, had the ability to make some really impressive graphics but they had to pick their battles. Sorry, rambling a bit. But I would kill to be able to go back in time and change the direction Sega took in the mid 90s. Not for fanboy reasons really, just because I think it'd be fascinating to see how the industry would look if Sega had kept at least some of the market and their momentum from the Genesis. Ideally (in my completely impossible hypothetical daydreams) I'd change how they approached the Mega-CD and especially 32X too. I think 32X could just be scrubbed from history, it was a blemish that Sega didn't need and while it had some potential I think it just muddied the waters. Give Saturn backwards compatibility for Genesis instead, even if it needs an add-on like the Master System or Super Gameboy. I love this channel btw. Only discovered it a few days ago, but I've watched a few videos so far and a lot of them mirror my thoughts exactly.
It’s sooo sad that sonic extreme never saw the light of day but it formed the basis to inspire nintendo with their super mario galaxy game(how could nintendo else had come up with mario galaxy?) and sonic R,sonic 3D blast and sonic jam formed the roots for 3D sonic games on other systems.
Great vid like always man. I still feel had Sega not wasted time on the 32X and put a lot of those resources into Saturn development, the first year or Saturn sure as hell would have been a notch better. Imagine stuff like Doom, Star Wars arcade, Knuckles Chaotix, and the super scaler ports of stuff like Afterburner or Space Harrier being there at launch or in that first critical six months of the Saturn's early life instead of wasting away on an add-on that was abandoned after little more than a year. It sure as hell wouldn't have hurt.
I know I am in the minority on this topic, but I love Sonic R! Although the control is very floaty, The graphics are very good. And it is a lot of fun! I am actually a fan of some of the vocal songs, most notably living in the city and can you feel the sunshine. It is true Sega feel good crazy music like Daytona USA!
It always felt terribly imbalanced to me, but maybe that's just because I never took the time to master the other characters besides Sonic. It never felt like any other character stood a chance against him. And once you unlocked the secret characters, was it actually possible to defeat CPU Super Sonic with any of them?
Sonic R suffers for adhering to Sega’s ‘arcade’ mentality at the time i.e. in an arcade game you don’t need more than course per level. Nintendo were admittedly always much better at this and games like Mario Kart and Diddy Kong racing give you seemingly limitless tracks. Nights was also very short for this reason but is so sublime it just about gets away with it.
Couldn't agree more about Sonic CD. I've always said that an enhanced Sonic CD port should have been the standard Pack-In title at launch, along with a demo disc which were popular at the time. It would've significantly bolstered Sega's profitability and success during that era.
They should have made a new side-scrolling Sonic 4 as a launch title for the Saturn. They were so focused on making Sonic 3D, that they forgot how good and popular the 2D Sonic games still were.
Sega had their heads up their ass, The civil war between Sega of Japan and Sega of America tore the company a part. Their wisdom deemed fit to release the Sega Saturn w/out a proper Sonic game---only their most beloved, most popular mascot! The face of the whole damn company! Can you imagine if Nintendo released a console w/out a true Mario game? SMFH. Sega's failure as a company was well deserved, to hell with them.
I remember being very dissapointed when Sonic Xtreme was cancelled. Sonic Jam was cool as I didn't get to play all of the games when they were on the Mega Drive and whilst I enjoyed Sonic R (I can understand about the stiff controls you are overly reliant on the trigger buttons), you can beat and unlock everything within 10-15 minutes.
Awesome video as always! Thanks Sega Lord X! Also I want to listen to the US Sonic CD soundtrack now! I was one of those kids who actually had a Sega CD and 32X. My parents used to travel from Thunder bay, ON south about 3 hours to Duluth, MN to grab deals for Christmas out of clearance outlets, They got me a Sega CD and a pile of games(of of which i wish would have kept now for their value) in 1994 and then the 32X in 1995 for ridiculously cheap.
I know it's an old video and we know more about these games today, but here are some corrections in case a newcomer stumbles upon it: For X-treme, the third-party Point of View didn't "pull it all together." The Japanese executive wasn't upset with the gameplay, he was upset by a laggy demo that POV made without consulting STI or giving them a chance to demo a new build they'd been working on. The footage you're showing is nowhere near what they could've shown if given the chance. Lookup "4 World demo." Sonic 3D is by *Traveller's Tales, and the Sonic Team made new *Special Stages.
Sonic R brought colourful graphics with transparent fade-in and some neat specular, environment-mapped presentation graphics. It also brought us Tails Dolls. Discuss.
I didn't mind so much that Sonic took a different approach on the Saturn. Looking at how Sonic Extreme was turning out, I'm glad we got Nights instead. I wouldn't say I was burned out of Sonic, but I definitely had a nice fill of his games. Between all the Genesis titles, Sonic CD and Knuckles Chaotix (not techincally a Sonic game but seriously, it was close enough), having Sonic come back into the spotlight for the Dreamcast was a little more exciting after skipping the 32-bit generation with a traditional game in the series.
Honestly, I didn't even think of an enhanced port of CD to the Saturn. I do think the extra power would've been used to its fullest, and hopefully result in a much less mid game. Imagine if you could tweak the soundtrack stage by stage, have an essentially Sonic Mania special stage type, or maybe even something more akin to a race track with hills and stuff. Playable Amy, 3D backgrounds like the Metal Sonic fight in Mania... I could think of so many ideas for Sonic CD on the Saturn.
I don't care what anyone says - the Sonic Jam world and gameplay was freaking phenomenal. It made zero sense that this wasn't just a full game, more or less ready at Saturn's launch.
I always liked the Sonic Xtreme feel also, I'm sure in the minority there, but it had promise. It was innovative. A lot of Sega's best stuff WAS innovative, right through DreamCast.
I personally don't think Sega Saturn necessarily needed a Sonic game to compete. PlayStation didn't rely on any single mascot and it dominated the market. I for one was glad Sonic Xtreme got cancelled because even back then I thought it looked and played terrible. Saturn just needed more games and we would've gotten games like Virtua Fighter 3 and Shenmue had Sega not given up so early.
The problem was that SEGA kept pushing and hastening each developer for stuff and then calling it off when they couldn't deliver, which ultimately just hurt their cause, leaving them with too little too late. This approach not only completely destroyed X Treme but nearly left one of it's developers on death's door! Even Sonic R was rushed for a Christmas deadline and it shows in how short and imbalanced it is despite being fun enough.
To be fair, if they’d NOT released Sonic 3D on the megadrive and released it as a Saturn exclusive launch title, people would’ve been satisfied. It wasn’t perfect, but it definitely would’ve helped drive sales more.
Interesting! That Sonic World Mode really looked like it had potential. Kinda gave me a Mega Man Legends vibe, which is a good thing! Too bad a full version was never released.
I've always said that it was a major mistake to have handed Sonic to Sega of America. Sonic Team got Sonic World up and running in no time. Had they had the reigns from the beginning, the Saturn Sonic game they would have produced would have been much more interesting.
I remember renting 3D blast for the weekend from blockbuster and being so disappointed, as you know when you rent for the weekend you had to make the best of it. Still I never got past the first stage as I had no idea you had to collect the birds first.
A port of Knuckles Chaotix with a solo sonic mode with different stage layouts and his full ability set would have been very much welcome. Though I think badnik density would need to go drastically up as well, as the stages feel somewhat barren. As for Sonic CD an enhanced port with Sonic/Tails/Knuckles (though Knuckles wouldn't add much with the stage design) better visuals and a remastered sound track would've been nice too. We kind of got the latter over the years, I guess.
Awesome video. I just got Sonic Jam for my Saturn. Yeah, 3 respectable Sonic games, just not the ones that fans wanted or needed. At the same time, where the hell was Streets of Rage on the Saturn? I love the Saturn, but Sega seemed to forget what charmed western audiences with the Genesis.
It's a mystery why so many Genesis/Mega Drive IP's were never touched on Saturn or Dreamcast. How can one expect to carry over fans from previous success when nothing was used that got you that success in the first place?
+Sega Lord X 5:13 "US version's $25 asking price"??? I remember buying this in November 1996, along with Daytona USA: Championship Circuit Edition, for $49.99 each at Toys R Us. I don't recall any US Saturn game launched at a price lower than $40.
It's really sad that the Sega Saturn didn't have that many Sonic the Hedgehog games for it. That's one of the Saturn's biggest failures. I would avoid the Sonic games and stick with Sega's fighting games, SNK's fighting games, Capcom's fighting games and Team Ninja's Dead or Alive 1.
Great video. I've played Sonic R recently and I think you are willing to put up with a lot here, just because it has Sonic in it. Not gonna lie, if it was themed around, say, Chase HQ, like a foot-race version of THAT where you chase down criminals while Nancy is yelling at you constantly? I'd be RIGHT THERE with you. :D
Interesting to note, I believe Sonic R was based on a cancelled F1 game, which is why the characters control like cars, and therefore not how you’d expect
Can you guys imagine sonic mania on the Sega saturn and then the unveiling of sonic adventure on the dreamcast! That would have been so awesome! I think it would have gave Sega some leeway to come up with a lot more ideas I believe!
Back in the day I mastered Sonic R, today we can play a hugely enhanced version for the PC, there's a site dedicated to it with patches, including widescreen, proper gamepad support, resolutions up to 4k and above, custom soundtracks, minor fixes, it's the definitive way to play. On the Saturn version, I challenged myself and tried getting all 5 golden coins, emeralds, finishing in the first place and obviously beating the challenge to unlock the new char from the golden coins, the problem is that the emeralds you catch doesn't count if you reach the challenge from the gold coins in the Saturn, but the PC it does, it may sound like nothing but it's a bug nonetheless.
X-Treme always and still be embedded in my head reading the magazines at the time, seeing the E3 demos and even playing one with my dad on the Boss engine and it was fun imo. In so many ways i always, i even joined the old Chris Senns old forums boards Senniet, have so downloaded art works and music etc. On my thumb drive but i got no pc atm to re-upload them on my Reddit and Blogger when i do get a new PC.
At the time (or maybe hearing about it in the DC era) I thought Sonic Xtreme looked super cool. It does in some ways resemble the BUG! engine, but...I don't know. I liked the organized-chaos feel of it with the camera moving around like that, sort of following Sonic, almost 2-D style but 3D. And I will say til I'm blue in the face, the Sonic Jam world that Sonic Team actually made was incredible. Played great. Looked great. Should've been a full game.
I really wish Sonic Team had been able to make a fully 3D Sonic platformer for the Saturn around the time Nights came out. Yes we probably wouldn’t have gotten Nights and the Saturn probably wouldn’t have been saved, but it would have been awesome. Like look at all the stuff Sonic Team actually made for the Saturn and those Sonic Adventure Prototype images. It would have been amazing. It’s clear the Saturn was able to handle Sonic speeds (look at Sonic R and the 3D blast special stages). It just feels like Sonic missed out on the whole Crash and Mario 64 era, even with Sonic Adventure. It probably would have controlled similar to SA1, but without all the different gameplay styles and stuff.
Why? He killed the Saturn in the West, if you can even really claim that, at best. It was an ailing, if not already dead, system at that point outside of Japan/Asia. With the extremely botched launch, nothing he could have done would have resurrected it, too much time went by to do a reboot on the whole ordeal. He did the right thing to not put resources into failure, but to start focusing on the next big thing. The Dreamcast failed because SEGA was too financially strapped to fully realize what Stolar wanted from the system.
Stolar was a Sony Agent who weaseled his way to the top of SoA & sabotaged Saturn by preventing many of the system's best games from being released in the west. Stolar left Sega before the Dreamcast even hit the States didn't he? His work against the Saturn prevented Sega from having the money & confidence needed for the Dreamcast to succeed. Pirates & PS2 pretty much murdered the console & there was nothing Sega could do to stay in the console war. All that was left was "revenge", they would give some of their best games to Nintendo hoping that would allow them to win against Sony & it failed once PS2 unveiled Kingdom Hearts. Stolar was working for Sony & gave Sega's most dangerous adversary the monopoly on JRPGs the PS1 needed to make Sony grow into an unstoppable force in gaming. PS2's DVD Player function assured the console's top spot.
Yeah having Sonic Team develop NiGHTS as their first game for the platform instead of getting a Sonic title out first and doing something more creative later probably wasn't the best move all things considered. Obviously as you can guess from my name I'm pretty happy with what we did get, but even I can't deny that even a mediocre 3D Sonic game at that time would have driven sales better than new franchises NiGHTS and Panzer Dragoon no matter how good they are. Sonic was absolutely on top of the world in 1995 and they dropped the ball hard by not capitalizing on it until several years later. Granted Sonic Adventure was an incredibly well received game in 99 and absolutely blew the N64 and Playstation out of the water feeling like something ahead of its time, but by then they were asking people that just got a new system 3 or so years ago to buy into new hardware yet again after Sega had notoriously abandoned both the 32X and Saturn prematurely.
I am actually okay with the Sonic titles for the Saturn because they gave us Nights into Dreams! I actually think Sonic R is actually really fun with Metal Tails, too. I fully agree with about Sonic CD. It is my favorite Sonic game of all time next to the first Sonic Adventure.
Think of it this way. nintendo had Mario 64. Sega had nothing on it. Also when talking about sonic R. IT doesn't hold a candle to Mario kart or diddy kong racing. Those gamers were console sellers. The sonic games they got were just average at best games
Kids nowadays: mom can I have the PS5 kids in the 1990s: mom can I have the new Sega Saturn. Edit Now day moms say: we have a perfectly fine PS3 moms in the 1990s: you are ready have the NES and it works perfectly fine
I agree a enhanced port of Sonic CD should have been released along with a enhanced port of Knuckles Chaotix on Saturn!
2nded! SonicCD to me really is the 4th major Sonic title that I wish I'd been able to play as a kid, but didn't get to until almost a decade later. Definitely a missed opportunity for Sega!
Good thing they've re-released Sonic CD several times since then. God willing Chaotix gets a similar treatment someday.
That should have been sonic jam. Since 32x and CD werent as popular, those should have been ported to Saturn and Dreamcast.
Especially because Sonic Xtreme had a really rough development. Sonic CD would have a great alternative that could have been ready at the launch of the Saturn.
or even sonic cd2
Sonic X-Treme's development was a good analogy for Sega themselves at the time: Chaos and infighting lead to a broken mess.
You are not wrong my friend.
I got to say Sega really dropped the ball as far Sonic content on the Saturn, not sure what they were thinking.
Sonic Team had wanted to do something different, Nights specifically. They should have kept the Saturn game in Japan and had once of the teams there make it.
Sega Lord X: Sonic Team were Imbeciles. Had they made a sonic game the Saturn wouldn't have been as much a disaster.
@@vulcanraven9701 yea but someone almost died from making the game and when it was done yujii naka took out the code for some reason.
I think there is a lot of business politics we'll never fully understand between Sega Japan and Sega USA. I mean yes the Saturn was way too expensive when it came out with hit or miss games, but you gotta think parents we're already pissed with kids wanting the 32x and then again with the Sega CD. By the time Saturn came out, they had already seriously damaged their reputation.
@@calebpriceproductions2412 They likely were better off having Traveller's Tales make a proper 3D Sonic game for the Saturn while ST was busy making the games they wanted to make, would've been a win-win considering I remember reading that Jon Burton wanted to make 3D games after Toy Story and was excited at the idea of a proper 3D Sonic game when Sega reached out to him about it
I was about to say that SEGA should've released Sonic CD on the Saturn. You and I are on the same page
Great minds and all that. ;)
Sonic CD as a launch title would have been awesome! The Saturn was built to handle those types of games and would have chewed it up and spit it out. I'm curious if they ever even considered it.
Joe Buk: SEGA was so screwed up during the Saturn years that I bet completely slipped their minds.
Sonic mania is the 32 bit sonic game that we should have had on the saturn years ago
Yep. They made it like it is an glimpse into an alternate universe. The simple 3d polygon special stages are the biggest proof!
Exactly
@@TheDistorted aye that and the Sega Saturn control pad on the "Control Screen"
@@DukeDudeston true dude. I still can't believe it exists! So awesome 😀
No... ur definitely wrong
Sega ruined themselves by secretly moving the Saturn launch date up.
Sonic Extreme is like a prototype of Mario Galaxy or Sonic Lost World.
One can never say SEGA wasn't innovative.
Not only was the Sega SAturn only Sonic game Sonic X-Treme got cancelled but the Saturn's other Sonic game, the arcade port of Sonic Championship a.k.a. Sonic the Fighters was also cancelled from the Saturn making Sonic Jam, Sonic 3D Blast, and Sonic R the only Sonic related games on the Saturn with Sonic R being the only original game yet was only a spin-off though not an exclusive as it also got a PC port a year later as well. If only Sega would had just port a flawless version of Sonic CD for the Saturn or include it as part of Sonic Jam the Saturn would had at least got something good on its library.
Ah someone else is aware of Sonic the Fighters & how it was supposed to get a Saturn Release after Sega had already pulled the plug on the system. Sonic CD & Knuckles Chaotix could have both benefited from being released on Sega Saturn. Sonic Eraser & Sega Sonic packaged together could have been great as well.
Sonic CD is a really good game. An enhanced Saturn version would've been cool but Sega didn't seem to have its thinking cap on when launching the Saturn and was in a bit of a panic! Even if it didn't sell well, at least we would have had a proper Sonic game, and a gorgeous looking one (one would've hoped!).
As for Sonic R, it's a fun game once you know the tracks. And those controls: use the shoulder buttons!!! Or the 3D controller.
Stanton Bentley Also enhanced Sonic the Hedgehog 3 and knuckles in one game called Sonic the Hedgehog 3 Limited Edtion or Knuckles Chaotix or even better Sonic and Knuckles Chaotix, Sega Sonic Arcade game and Sonic CD would have been great launch titles for the USA. Wish they thought about it. Also, Sonic the Hedgehog 2 special edition or a compilation game consist of a CD version of Sonic 1, Sonic 2 Special edition, 3 and Knuckles in Sonic Jam.
Truth be told, much of Sega's trouble came from Sonic Team wanting to do something new instead of another Sonic game. Sega of America was simply ill equipped to handle a fully 3D game like that. They definitely should have made Sonic CD a 2.5 experience with polygon bonus stages.
Sega Lord X or with sonic 3 and knuckles or a enhanced version of Knuckles Chaotix with Sonic and other characters.
Extremely sad to see a true 3D Sonic game never seem to fruition on the Sega Saturn. At least the solution known as Sonic Adventure came out on the Dreamcast to replace what should have came on the Saturn later.
Its not a solution if the damage to SEGA was permanent ( no sonic for Saturn)
Uhh there was Sonic 3D Blast for the Saturn, which arguably was in many ways a better entry into 3D than Mario 64.
Sonic 3D Blast lol? To be fair, the special stages were fully polygonal 3D graphics; so between that and the pre-rendered 3d graphics on the isometric design, it technically it was the first Sonic "3d game", I guess lol.
It's not just Sonic, Sega abandoned so many IPs they established on the Megadrive, a habit which they still haven't broken to this day
Sonic X-treme was definitely divergent but man would I love to be able to at least give a completed version of that a try. Great video, Sega Lord X!
Woulda been interesting to see where the developers were headed for sure.
T&C Gaming Times especially Xtreme with the Nights Engine and Sonic Saturn prototype. Release it during the holidays of 96.
A+ video as always!! It is truly baffling that Sega would release a console without Sonic! I definitely agree they should have ported Sonic CD if they could not get a 3d Sonic in time.
Sonic CD had been such a good game back then. So few people saw it though. It was just sitting there begging to be upgraded.
It would have probably been better if Knuckles Chaotix was developed and released as a Saturn launch game as opposed to 32X. Even with the mixed opinions , having a "Sonic" with a graphical fidelty closer to something like Astal surely would have sold a few Saturns.
Sonic R does one thing very well , and that is its visually great , it shows off the hardware alot better than most 3rd party offerings.
That was ironically outsourced to a third party studio? Travellers Tales are behind that work. Check out GameHut Jon Burton tells how HE helped make that game.
Travellers Tale were always good at getting the most out of whatever hardware they worked on, whether that was the Mega Drive or Saturn.
Sonic r wasn't really done by a third party. Travelers tales were virtually an internal sega studio just like sonic software who did the shining games.
Both were basically 2nd party devs at that point, albeit Sonic Software started as an internal Sega team , while Traveller's Tales started off as a 3rd party
I'm pretty sure I can recite the entire soundtrack to Sonic R. Spent so many hours of that game on PC with three of my friends: two on keyboard, one on a gamepad, and one played with a steering wheel!
10:16 Dude, you need to be taken "Back In Time" so you can "Work it Out" with TJ Davis' vocals in the songs so you can "Feel the Sunshine" while "Living in the City" with the "Diamond in the Sky" so you too can be "Super Sonic Racing" with all the other Sega fans because "You're My Number One" Sega-themed CZcamsr.
Haha. Excellent. ;)
Super Sonic Racing is such a cheesy song but it's sooooooo catchy.
Gawd Sega wasted the Saturn. I think Sega's handling of the Saturn was about as bad as Apples Pipen. I loved the Saturn, but I know why it failed and it was simply piss poor planning, and the lost of consumer confidence with their 32X Mars project crap.
Sega's President also let things get out of hand by having a clear divide between SOA, and SOJ. He should have never allowed the 32X, and building a system initially for 2D was also short sided.
Mario 64 was soooooo good that sega knew that they could not make a 3d game that could compete with Mario...I remember playing Mario 64 thinking how could it get better than this. Saying that I wish they made a game using the Sonic Jam engine, but by that time I understand it was to late....good video keep them coming
Oof to edgy Sega back then.
I would have loved a 2d sonic game on the saturn that had all the effects the saturn can do. I believe the reason it never happened is because during the time of the saturn everyone wanted a 3d sonic game.
The problem with sonic R was at the time it’s not what sega/sonic fans wanted or was expecting but the game itself is not bad
Sad to see the fall of Sega and Sonic, they messed up big time in the late 90s and early 2000s.
Sonic the Fighters was also planned to have a Saturn port but it got cancelled.
And it was Sonic's true first polygonal 3D game, not Sonic R.
A shame too. Sonic the Fighters would have been a nice addition to the Saturn library. And you're right, it was Sonic's first fully polygon game, but I was speaking more in terms of console releases. I should have been more specific.
@@SegaLordX it's hardly understandable Fighters got cancelled. It was based on Fighting Vipers' engine which had a Saturn release. So I guess it would not have been that hard to port too. This game is meh anyway. Not a terrible loss for the Saturn.
I remember buying Sonic R and 3D Blast from Funco Land back in the day and being highly disappointed. Sega definitely dropped the ball not translating their successful IP's to the Saturn. Great video as always!
imyanigmw even there arcade games as well. Before the model 2.
Sonic world, Sonic R and Sonic into Dreams were the Sonic games I have always wanted on the Saturn. A slower paced sonic game where you can explore a big open world. I can’t even begin to count how many hours I spent playing those three. They were so great.
Maybe that’s why I liked Sonic Boom a lot.
You’ll like the new game
I just realized how much the box art and game box art for the American Saturn reminds me of the boring box art for the Master System. I agree that nothing sega did that gen would have stopped Sony, but bringing over the Japanese box art, as Japanese anime was becoming mainstream might have help. I wonder why they ditched the interesting art style of the Genesis for the sterile, to say the least, art direction of the Saturn.
It must be my birthday. A Sega Lord X video goes up during my insomniac hours? The gods have smiled upon me.
You are too kind. Appreciate the comment. :)
@@SegaLordX man, you're one of, if not the best, sega channels around. Thanks for all you do.
It should have been a sonic mania like game years ago for the Saturn
That would have been awesome.
You overstate the level of fun that can be had with 3D Blast and understate how wonderful Sonic World is on the Jam collection. Blast gets repetitive and boring, fast. World feels like the Sonic equivalent to the first painting from Mario 64. I absolutely love it and recommend highly that Saturn people should get a copy
I know people who adore 3D Blast. It's extremely easy to get into. I stated that it wasn't the Sonic game I wanted, but I've played enough games to understand who 3D Blast's target audience was. As for Sonic World, if you know my adoration for Sonic Team and the experience I had with Sonic Adventure in 1998, it was high praise indeed. ;)
Sega Lord X I do and I share that adoration for Sonic Team. I didn’t mean to come across as critical, more just giving my own take.
I liked 3D Blast, though I agree Sonic World was a cool idea. The main problem however is that it was just a brief tease of a proper Saturn Sonic platformer, very bittersweet in hindsight. It's a shame they didn't put more work into it to make it a full nostalgia platformer, like Pac Man World which is a retro 3D game but with similar classic games and extras added on as a bonus.
3D Blast was mostly a technical showcase for the Genesis in its latter stages of life. It’s ultimately a mediocre game with gameplay which boils down to tedious exploration. It could have been a much better game with more advanced physics which would have allowed for deeper and more varied gameplay (spinning sections in Rusty Ruin were a rare example of this). Also more point A to Point B level design with obstacles and platforming with some alternative routes and exploration rather than boring empty sandbox levels.
Hey man! Great video, just bought a Saturn so I'm looking around for other CZcamsrs who have one. I knew going into it that Sonic wasn't very present on Saturn but I'm still looking forward to playing Sonic R at some point. Will probably wait for the Genesis Mini for the first three Sonic games and Sonic and Knuckles so I don't see much need to get Jam but its still cool that they at least ported those games over (though, like you said, it was kind of a bonehead call not to port Sonic CD).
I would really like to see if they actually had working gameplay for Sonic Adventure on Saturn before they scrapped it for the Dreamcast. The only thing I've seen so far is that Sky Chase Act 2 scene where the Tornado transforms.
Looking forward to watching more of your stuff!
That intro was beast
Criminally underrated channel. Keep up the great work!
Thank you. :)
I TRULY LOVE YOUR INTRO MUSIC-
NIGHTS INTO DREAMS IS IN MY TOP 5 GAMES OF ALL TIME
Me too.
lol, I'm 22 seconds in. I just want to say I love the intro. Your videos are so oddly captivating.
Hmm. Oddly you say. I'm not sure that's a good or bad thing. ;)
Sonic was considered too colorful and children-oriented games for the "adult" Saturn audience wanted to capture. But they probably discovered their own mistake later in the life of the system, hence the hodgepodge of games that appeared during the late Saturn years. And Sonic Team was too busy making Nights, that's why they gave SOA the task of developing such game.
Loved the way the emeralds looked in Sonic 3D Blast on the Saturn!
Every time somebody has Sonic X-Treme show up in their video, they never seem to point out what a giant piece of garbage it looked like it was. I'm so glad Sega waited at LEAST five years before ruining 3D Sonic.
I do agree that Sonic would've helped the Saturn, but I have to admit that it's one of my least favorite Sega franchises. The Saturn is where Sega stole my heart from Nintendo so to speak, as it was the stuff that wasn't popular in the late '90s that I was into. Those games like Galactic Attack, Dragon Force, Enemy Zero, and Soukyugurentai were really getting me riled up, and Nintendo wasn't offering up the kind of strange stuff I was really enjoying. It's bitter-sweet to me that the library that, in it's time, was a flop and a failure became the very thing that drew me toward the Saturn, and later the Dreamcast. There was no Nintendo analog for Lunacy or Virtua Cop, and Sega slowly began to take center stage for me at the time, yet Sonic still has yet to win me over, in spite of owning his games.
I was a Sega fan long before Sonic ever showed up, but I've always appreciated his initial outings on the Genesis. They weren't especially deep or engrossing, but they did have a sort of visceral quality to the experience. I loved fast and colorful arcade games, and Sonic just always seemed to mimic that style of play.
Sega Lord X I understand your point about Sonic not being a particularly ‘deep’ game but on the other hand there’s a huge amount of depth that goes into delivering that visceral experience; physics, level design and art direction. The Sonic 3 & K levels are some of the most complex platform levels ever designed.
As a Genesis player, when the Sega Saturn came out I was dreaming with if, and the Dreamcast too... But the Genesis was my last video console... Until I bought the PS2 used has hell, mainly to play GT4.
There was also a port of the arcade game Sonic the Fighters considered, but the developers decided the Saturn couldn't do it justice. A shame, it and Sonic R could have at least held the Saturn up slightly as unique Sonic titles.
That "glimpse" of the messy engine you were referring too was an accident. The Sega execs were shown the wrong build of the game. Lol. By time the lead developer got there to inform them, it was too late. They had to start over.
Not too mention at one moment, STI was using the NiGHTs engine at one time--without the permission of Yuji Naka. And when he caught wind, he threatened to quit (as usual).
JP Poole what a bunch of fagits sega was
@@almostliterally593 Bro...they collapsed on themselves. And for what? Pettiness and incompetence. And with all the mistakes they made, it all stemmed from one thing. Sega's inability to get along with eachother. They never saw eye to eye. They always tried to undermine the other. They was always disagreements...with it always ending up with Japan and US branches doing stupid shit that kept bringing about failures. And it was always out is spite. The 32X. The Saturn architecture. The lack of games from from Japan for it. Favoring 3D over 2D for it (Saturn was an amazing 2D powerhouse. Dafuq, man). The sabatoge of Sonic Xtreme at every turn. The list goes on, man. And it's disheartening. Poor Sega of Europe. Lol. They were stuck in the middle like "wtf." Fuckn Sega of USA & Japan, yo.
The Saturn was the peak of their bullshit. And it followed them all the way through the Dreamcast. And Dreamcast was an amazing console. But it was too late. Sega causes their own demise.
You never saw Nintendo do that shit among branches. And that is why they still around. And they have had a few failures too
JP Poole despite the corporate bullshit, segas consoles are still fun to play
@@almostliterally593 I still play Dreamcast and Genesis every so often. Lol. I just bought a softmodded memorykart with Pseudo Saturn just so I can play backups and imports on my Sega Saturn lol
I still love Sega games
...still a bit sore how they left the console market tho
Hell, when Sega of America and Sega of Japan weren't fighting each other, they were still fighting among themselves. You really have to respect Nintendo's focus of company and IP first. Sega was all about ego and personal feelings. It did them in at the end.
A 3D Sonic would still have been drastically overshadowed by Mario 64, imo. I think if Sega had a stunning 2D Sonic ready for launch or at least early in the life of the Saturn then it would have helped a lot in the Western markets. You said something in another video, that Sega was never going to defeat Sony and especially not by trying to mimic them. But the Saturn could've carved out a respectable niche as a 2D powerhouse with gorgeous arcade-perfect ports, 2D RPGs, Shmups, etc. Imagine a Saturn that launched with Streets of Rage 4, with big beautiful 2D sprites and backgrounds. They abandoned their best IPs, and tried to fight Sony on Sony's terms. The Saturn couldn't do 3D polygon based games the way the Playstation could, it wasn't going to win that fight. But while 3D was the new, shiny toy that everyone was excited about there was definitely an opportunity to perfect 2D and use the Saturn's capabilities to do 3D in a way that would work. Their architecture, while apparently quite difficult to develop for, had the ability to make some really impressive graphics but they had to pick their battles.
Sorry, rambling a bit. But I would kill to be able to go back in time and change the direction Sega took in the mid 90s. Not for fanboy reasons really, just because I think it'd be fascinating to see how the industry would look if Sega had kept at least some of the market and their momentum from the Genesis. Ideally (in my completely impossible hypothetical daydreams) I'd change how they approached the Mega-CD and especially 32X too. I think 32X could just be scrubbed from history, it was a blemish that Sega didn't need and while it had some potential I think it just muddied the waters. Give Saturn backwards compatibility for Genesis instead, even if it needs an add-on like the Master System or Super Gameboy.
I love this channel btw. Only discovered it a few days ago, but I've watched a few videos so far and a lot of them mirror my thoughts exactly.
It’s sooo sad that sonic extreme never saw the light of day but it formed the basis to inspire nintendo with their super mario galaxy game(how could nintendo else had come up with mario galaxy?) and sonic R,sonic 3D blast and sonic jam formed the roots for 3D sonic games on other systems.
Great vid like always man. I still feel had Sega not wasted time on the 32X and put a lot of those resources into Saturn development, the first year or Saturn sure as hell would have been a notch better. Imagine stuff like Doom, Star Wars arcade, Knuckles Chaotix, and the super scaler ports of stuff like Afterburner or Space Harrier being there at launch or in that first critical six months of the Saturn's early life instead of wasting away on an add-on that was abandoned after little more than a year. It sure as hell wouldn't have hurt.
I know I am in the minority on this topic, but I love Sonic R! Although the control is very floaty, The graphics are very good. And it is a lot of fun! I am actually a fan of some of the vocal songs, most notably living in the city and can you feel the sunshine. It is true Sega feel good crazy music like Daytona USA!
Don't be afraid to love something popular opinion deems bad, my friend. We each experience gaming very differently. :)
It is a great game, it's just very short. If anyone says it handles poorly, it's 100% the players fault.
It always felt terribly imbalanced to me, but maybe that's just because I never took the time to master the other characters besides Sonic. It never felt like any other character stood a chance against him. And once you unlocked the secret characters, was it actually possible to defeat CPU Super Sonic with any of them?
Sonic R suffers for adhering to Sega’s ‘arcade’ mentality at the time i.e. in an arcade game you don’t need more than course per level. Nintendo were admittedly always much better at this and games like Mario Kart and Diddy Kong racing give you seemingly limitless tracks. Nights was also very short for this reason but is so sublime it just about gets away with it.
Couldn't agree more about Sonic CD. I've always said that an enhanced Sonic CD port should have been the standard Pack-In title at launch, along with a demo disc which were popular at the time. It would've significantly bolstered Sega's profitability and success during that era.
It would've been relative easy too. Insane decisions, in hindsight. Sonic CD is a great game.
sonic extreme was shifted to wii u like 10 years after..
Sega being one of my favorite consoles of all time. I really wish they let thier pride go and worked in harmony to create more awesome titles!
They should have made a new side-scrolling Sonic 4 as a launch title for the Saturn. They were so focused on making Sonic 3D, that they forgot how good and popular the 2D Sonic games still were.
Sega had their heads up their ass,
The civil war between Sega of Japan and Sega of America tore the company a part.
Their wisdom deemed fit to release the Sega Saturn w/out a proper Sonic game---only their most beloved, most popular mascot! The face of the whole damn company!
Can you imagine if Nintendo released a console w/out a true Mario game? SMFH.
Sega's failure as a company was well deserved, to hell with them.
Oh god that music, instant nostalgia hit
I used it for that very reason. If you were a Saturn fan in the 90's, that should hit home. :)
I remember being very dissapointed when Sonic Xtreme was cancelled. Sonic Jam was cool as I didn't get to play all of the games when they were on the Mega Drive and whilst I enjoyed Sonic R (I can understand about the stiff controls you are overly reliant on the trigger buttons), you can beat and unlock everything within 10-15 minutes.
Was it revealed that day?
Awesome video as always! Thanks Sega Lord X! Also I want to listen to the US Sonic CD soundtrack now! I was one of those kids who actually had a Sega CD and 32X. My parents used to travel from Thunder bay, ON south about 3 hours to Duluth, MN to grab deals for Christmas out of clearance outlets, They got me a Sega CD and a pile of games(of of which i wish would have kept now for their value) in 1994 and then the 32X in 1995 for ridiculously cheap.
Waiting a little while definitely could have a profound effect on the pricing of Sega hardware. I remember when the 32X was $29 at Toys R Us.....
Really wished Sonic Xtreme launched still despite the problems. The fact that a mainline game made for the Saturn would be great :3
I know it's an old video and we know more about these games today, but here are some corrections in case a newcomer stumbles upon it:
For X-treme, the third-party Point of View didn't "pull it all together." The Japanese executive wasn't upset with the gameplay, he was upset by a laggy demo that POV made without consulting STI or giving them a chance to demo a new build they'd been working on. The footage you're showing is nowhere near what they could've shown if given the chance. Lookup "4 World demo."
Sonic 3D is by *Traveller's Tales, and the Sonic Team made new *Special Stages.
Sonic R brought colourful graphics with transparent fade-in and some neat specular, environment-mapped presentation graphics. It also brought us Tails Dolls. Discuss.
I didn't mind so much that Sonic took a different approach on the Saturn. Looking at how Sonic Extreme was turning out, I'm glad we got Nights instead. I wouldn't say I was burned out of Sonic, but I definitely had a nice fill of his games. Between all the Genesis titles, Sonic CD and Knuckles Chaotix (not techincally a Sonic game but seriously, it was close enough), having Sonic come back into the spotlight for the Dreamcast was a little more exciting after skipping the 32-bit generation with a traditional game in the series.
Honestly, I didn't even think of an enhanced port of CD to the Saturn. I do think the extra power would've been used to its fullest, and hopefully result in a much less mid game. Imagine if you could tweak the soundtrack stage by stage, have an essentially Sonic Mania special stage type, or maybe even something more akin to a race track with hills and stuff. Playable Amy, 3D backgrounds like the Metal Sonic fight in Mania... I could think of so many ideas for Sonic CD on the Saturn.
I don't care what anyone says - the Sonic Jam world and gameplay was freaking phenomenal. It made zero sense that this wasn't just a full game, more or less ready at Saturn's launch.
I always liked the Sonic Xtreme feel also, I'm sure in the minority there, but it had promise. It was innovative. A lot of Sega's best stuff WAS innovative, right through DreamCast.
I feel like if sonic 3d blast was only on the Saturn the console could had been a success since it would be the only 3d sonic game on the console
I personally don't think Sega Saturn necessarily needed a Sonic game to compete. PlayStation didn't rely on any single mascot and it dominated the market. I for one was glad Sonic Xtreme got cancelled because even back then I thought it looked and played terrible. Saturn just needed more games and we would've gotten games like Virtua Fighter 3 and Shenmue had Sega not given up so early.
to me Sonic R has a great so bad it's good feel!
I actually have the sonic r sound track on vinyl...its remixed for "house" music.
The problem was that SEGA kept pushing and hastening each developer for stuff and then calling it off when they couldn't deliver, which ultimately just hurt their cause, leaving them with too little too late. This approach not only completely destroyed X Treme but nearly left one of it's developers on death's door! Even Sonic R was rushed for a Christmas deadline and it shows in how short and imbalanced it is despite being fun enough.
To be fair, if they’d NOT released Sonic 3D on the megadrive and released it as a Saturn exclusive launch title, people would’ve been satisfied. It wasn’t perfect, but it definitely would’ve helped drive sales more.
Interesting! That Sonic World Mode really looked like it had potential. Kinda gave me a Mega Man Legends vibe, which is a good thing! Too bad a full version was never released.
I've always said that it was a major mistake to have handed Sonic to Sega of America. Sonic Team got Sonic World up and running in no time. Had they had the reigns from the beginning, the Saturn Sonic game they would have produced would have been much more interesting.
Sega should of given Saturn Golden Axe Revenge of Death Adder
I remember renting 3D blast for the weekend from blockbuster and being so disappointed, as you know when you rent for the weekend you had to make the best of it. Still I never got past the first stage as I had no idea you had to collect the birds first.
Man, I had the same issue when first playing it. I was just like WTF do I do! Damn you instruction manual!!
A port of Knuckles Chaotix with a solo sonic mode with different stage layouts and his full ability set would have been very much welcome. Though I think badnik density would need to go drastically up as well, as the stages feel somewhat barren.
As for Sonic CD an enhanced port with Sonic/Tails/Knuckles (though Knuckles wouldn't add much with the stage design) better visuals and a remastered sound track would've been nice too.
We kind of got the latter over the years, I guess.
Awesome video. I just got Sonic Jam for my Saturn. Yeah, 3 respectable Sonic games, just not the ones that fans wanted or needed. At the same time, where the hell was Streets of Rage on the Saturn? I love the Saturn, but Sega seemed to forget what charmed western audiences with the Genesis.
It's a mystery why so many Genesis/Mega Drive IP's were never touched on Saturn or Dreamcast. How can one expect to carry over fans from previous success when nothing was used that got you that success in the first place?
Fighting Force was supposed to be Streets of Rage but it didn't work out.
+Sega Lord X 5:13 "US version's $25 asking price"??? I remember buying this in November 1996, along with Daytona USA: Championship Circuit Edition, for $49.99 each at Toys R Us.
I don't recall any US Saturn game launched at a price lower than $40.
Modern prices. 3D Blast's Japanese release if much more expensive than a NA version.
It's really sad that the Sega Saturn didn't have that many Sonic the Hedgehog games for it. That's one of the Saturn's biggest failures. I would avoid the Sonic games and stick with Sega's fighting games, SNK's fighting games, Capcom's fighting games and Team Ninja's Dead or Alive 1.
That Sonic extreme gameplay legit made me feel nauseous
Sega blew it with style. A great Sonic game would really help the console back in the day. Congrats for the video, man!
I would love to see a new Nights game.. course I was the one in the middle summer playing chrismas Nights
Great video. I've played Sonic R recently and I think you are willing to put up with a lot here, just because it has Sonic in it. Not gonna lie, if it was themed around, say, Chase HQ, like a foot-race version of THAT where you chase down criminals while Nancy is yelling at you constantly? I'd be RIGHT THERE with you. :D
Sonic R man, you really gotta go into it with the right mindset. I just pretend you controlling Sonic robots......
Also 3D Blast now on Saturn here in Canada went up now too 105.00 so snag it fast when you do see it here in Canada as it’s now going up.
Sonic CD would of a great launch game for in Europe and North America .
Interesting to note, I believe Sonic R was based on a cancelled F1 game, which is why the characters control like cars, and therefore not how you’d expect
Can you guys imagine sonic mania on the Sega saturn and then the unveiling of sonic adventure on the dreamcast! That would have been so awesome! I think it would have gave Sega some leeway to come up with a lot more ideas I believe!
Back in the day I mastered Sonic R, today we can play a hugely enhanced version for the PC, there's a site dedicated to it with patches, including widescreen, proper gamepad support, resolutions up to 4k and above, custom soundtracks, minor fixes, it's the definitive way to play. On the Saturn version, I challenged myself and tried getting all 5 golden coins, emeralds, finishing in the first place and obviously beating the challenge to unlock the new char from the golden coins, the problem is that the emeralds you catch doesn't count if you reach the challenge from the gold coins in the Saturn, but the PC it does, it may sound like nothing but it's a bug nonetheless.
These are really bittersweet memories...
I find they often are where Sega is concerned.
X-Treme always and still be embedded in my head reading the magazines at the time, seeing the E3 demos and even playing one with my dad on the Boss engine and it was fun imo. In so many ways i always, i even joined the old Chris Senns old forums boards Senniet, have so downloaded art works and music etc. On my thumb drive but i got no pc atm to re-upload them on my Reddit and Blogger when i do get a new PC.
At the time (or maybe hearing about it in the DC era) I thought Sonic Xtreme looked super cool. It does in some ways resemble the BUG! engine, but...I don't know. I liked the organized-chaos feel of it with the camera moving around like that, sort of following Sonic, almost 2-D style but 3D. And I will say til I'm blue in the face, the Sonic Jam world that Sonic Team actually made was incredible. Played great. Looked great. Should've been a full game.
Am I the only one who didn't think this version didn't look all that bad?
I really wish Sonic Team had been able to make a fully 3D Sonic platformer for the Saturn around the time Nights came out. Yes we probably wouldn’t have gotten Nights and the Saturn probably wouldn’t have been saved, but it would have been awesome. Like look at all the stuff Sonic Team actually made for the Saturn and those Sonic Adventure Prototype images. It would have been amazing. It’s clear the Saturn was able to handle Sonic speeds (look at Sonic R and the 3D blast special stages). It just feels like Sonic missed out on the whole Crash and Mario 64 era, even with Sonic Adventure. It probably would have controlled similar to SA1, but without all the different gameplay styles and stuff.
I still blame Bernie Stolar for a lot of the troubles the SEGA Saturn had.
Why? He killed the Saturn in the West, if you can even really claim that, at best. It was an ailing, if not already dead, system at that point outside of Japan/Asia. With the extremely botched launch, nothing he could have done would have resurrected it, too much time went by to do a reboot on the whole ordeal.
He did the right thing to not put resources into failure, but to start focusing on the next big thing. The Dreamcast failed because SEGA was too financially strapped to fully realize what Stolar wanted from the system.
Stolar was a Sony Agent who weaseled his way to the top of SoA & sabotaged Saturn by preventing many of the system's best games from being released in the west. Stolar left Sega before the Dreamcast even hit the States didn't he? His work against the Saturn prevented Sega from having the money & confidence needed for the Dreamcast to succeed. Pirates & PS2 pretty much murdered the console & there was nothing Sega could do to stay in the console war.
All that was left was "revenge", they would give some of their best games to Nintendo hoping that would allow them to win against Sony & it failed once PS2 unveiled Kingdom Hearts. Stolar was working for Sony & gave Sega's most dangerous adversary the monopoly on JRPGs the PS1 needed to make Sony grow into an unstoppable force in gaming. PS2's DVD Player function assured the console's top spot.
I can’t believe they didn’t have a main line sonic game ready for the Saturn 😣😢
Yeah having Sonic Team develop NiGHTS as their first game for the platform instead of getting a Sonic title out first and doing something more creative later probably wasn't the best move all things considered. Obviously as you can guess from my name I'm pretty happy with what we did get, but even I can't deny that even a mediocre 3D Sonic game at that time would have driven sales better than new franchises NiGHTS and Panzer Dragoon no matter how good they are. Sonic was absolutely on top of the world in 1995 and they dropped the ball hard by not capitalizing on it until several years later. Granted Sonic Adventure was an incredibly well received game in 99 and absolutely blew the N64 and Playstation out of the water feeling like something ahead of its time, but by then they were asking people that just got a new system 3 or so years ago to buy into new hardware yet again after Sega had notoriously abandoned both the 32X and Saturn prematurely.
Would of been cool as a vr game
Loved Sonic R! The soundtrack…
I got POW-MIA vibes from the thumbnail. Very appropriate.
Awesome. A similar retrospective on Sonic Team from that era could be rad too! :)
Sonic jam games were actually reprogrammed from the ground up for the Saturn
It’s like Nintendo not having a mainline Mario game 😱🤯
Sonic R feels unfinished to be honest.
Could have been a great game if they had spent more time on the physics and added more tracks.
0:20 Sonic the Hedge - HAUWG
I am actually okay with the Sonic titles for the Saturn because they gave us Nights into Dreams! I actually think Sonic R is actually really fun with Metal Tails, too. I fully agree with about Sonic CD. It is my favorite Sonic game of all time next to the first Sonic Adventure.
Think of it this way. nintendo had Mario 64. Sega had nothing on it. Also when talking about sonic R. IT doesn't hold a candle to Mario kart or diddy kong racing. Those gamers were console sellers. The sonic games they got were just average at best games
Kids nowadays: mom can I have the PS5 kids in the 1990s: mom can I have the new Sega Saturn. Edit Now day moms say: we have a perfectly fine PS3 moms in the 1990s: you are ready have the NES and it works perfectly fine
To this day, I can’t get over how good the 3D sonic wold looks and plays. It still amazes me that it wasn’t made in to a full game.