Female Diksa-Gurus, Politics, and Reconciliation
Vložit
- čas přidán 5. 09. 2024
- #FDG #GBC #MissionDrift #ISKCON #Deviation
Recorded on 31 December 2019 at Salem, Tamil Nadu, India.
Related talks:
1. FDG: Three Prabhupada Disciples Speak Out - • FDG: Three Prabhupada ...
2. My Position Regarding Female Diksa Gurus - • My Position Regarding ...
3. Are Men and Women Equal in ISKCON? - • Are Men and Women Equa...
4. Answering the Objections to the Book, "Women: Masters or Mothers?" - • Answering the Objectio...
5. Mothers and Masters:
• Mothers and Masters
For more talks, download our Mobile App: bit.ly/3hdTWzR
Books by HH Bhakti Vikasa Swami: books.bvks.com/
Mothers and Masters - bit.ly/339EFL5
Connect with us:
CZcams - / bvksmediaministry
Website - www.bvks.com
Facebook - / bhaktivikasaswami
WhatsApp: +91 6383196002
Help us promote our media - bvks.com/donate
“A sincere student should not neglect the discussion of such conclusions, considering them controversial, for such discussions strengthen the mind. Thus one’s mind becomes attached to Śrī Kṛṣṇa.” [Ādi 2.117]
Amazing !!
Maharaj is being bold and bold everyday in speaking the truth, which is very much needed and desired quality of a true Sannyasi.
The fact is ALL Prabhupads disciples USED to Preach K C. Like Him
Men and Women,,BEFORE -, The EVIL DOOR of Compromise was Let OPEN....(in Iskcon)
ALL Disciples Preached Like BVS ---Before P C Correctness and Worrying about
VOX POP=Public---Feminism Poison-Liberalism - -Public Opinion Disease Infected the
GBC,GURUS - and Iskcon...His preaching is Normal.,
--its ,Following Srila Prabhupada Correctly,,,,,,,,
I am a little demon.. This is a very perfect lecture/ speech by Sri Bhakti Vikasa Swami.
Even a demon can understand that this is a very good speech.
Strong dose of realism! Love it!
Its like let's have a deep reality check as it is.
Thank you very much Maharaja, I appreciate a lot the fact that you are nor afraid to speak the true, Thank you!
Whatever His Holiness Bhakti Vikasa Swami is speaking is completely based on the books by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada and the Guru disciples succession. I am an insignificant person but even I can understand this fact as I have been studying Prabhupada books, then why can the GBC members who are so experienced in devotional service in ISKCON fail to understand this fact. Even if we go by traditional vaishnavism the FDG is never recommended. Three can be a major drift within our Vaishnavas traditions by bringing this NEW concept of FDG. This approach is surely motivated by so called speculative or empirical minded devotees. Think of HIS DIVINE GRACE BHAKTI SIDDHANTA SARASWATI THAKUR, would he be happy with this decision of FDG. There seems madness in the whole approach of FDG. I suggest all members of ISKCON carefully and very sincerely study books written by founder Ācharya Shrila Prabhupada again and re-think then about FDG. Whole ISKCON will have to face serious repercussions for this drift. Is seems clearly that members of ISKCON are not taking the instruction of Shrila Prabhupada. Please follow the instructions of Shrila Prabhupada. H. H. Bhakti Vikasa Swami is speaking perfectly in line with the teachings given by Shrila Prabhupada. This is really bold and clear as a Sannysi should speak as per scripture , Sadhu and previous Ācharya. All ISKCON followers should carefully listen to Maharaj on this very sensitive issue without any bias. REAL DUTY OF A REAL SANNYASI. Perfect speaking by Maharaj
All glories to H H Bhakti Vikasa Swami for speaking the truth so boldly and clearly. Everything is perfectly done as per the teachings of founder Ācharya of ISKCON His Guru Shrila Prabhupada . 100% pure and perfect. Those who read Shrila Prabhupada books will have no difficulty to understand. Your servant Ananda Govinda Dasa
Hare Krishna prabhuji PAMHO,
I personally appreciate HH BVSM for always speaking boldly as Srila Prabhupad spoke.
But, I have observed personally that discussing this kind of topics which are questioning position and decisions of GBC should not be put on web platform.
They will damage our ISKCON movement and tender faith of neophyte devotees. Srila Prabhupada made GBC to discuss matters internally. But, discussing thes kind of topics on public platform is not appreciated.
Please consider it as a suggestion.
I believe we should boldly preach but at the same time we have to see what effect it may have on the lives of devotees.
Srila Prabhupada used to preach boldly but He cared of each and every devotee.
Srila Prabhupada said we should have heart of a Bengali mother and courage of an English men.
Yas
So much gratitude for these videos and teachings my humble obeisance to you 🙏 Hare Krishna
(Managed by disciples) Thank you very much for your kind appreciation and gratitude!
For more talks, download our Mobile App:
Android: bit.ly/3hdTWzR
Apple: apple.co/2I5nKTF
All glorys to Srila Prabhupada and the assembled devotees Haribooool, thank you so much Maharaj. This is kali Yuga as well.
(Managed by Disciples)
Hare Krishna...!!
Thank you for listening..!!
Stay connected...!!
For more talks download our Mobile App.
* Android - bit.ly/3hdTWzR
* Apple - apple.co/215nKTF
Dear Maharaj, Please accept my humble obeisances. 🙏🏼 I fully accept and agree with what you are presenting in your talk here. You are a true Srila Prabhupada disciple. All glories,to your service. 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼Your godsister and servant, Lelihana devi dasi
Prabhu I bow at your feet for being truthful in your message.
The scriptures say to be bold and truthful thank you for doing just that.
Hari Krishna
(Managed by disciples) Thank you for your kind words of appreciation. It is highly appreciated.
To listen to more lectures please :
Download our mobile app
Android: play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.iskcon.bvks
Apple iOS: apps.apple.com/in/app/bhakti-vikasa-swami/id1536451261
Hare Krishna!
Hare Krsna. I hope to translate this lecture into spanish. Almost all devotes from south america doesn't know what Maharaja have said here. This is very important. Thanks Maharaja for presenting what is the line of Srila Prabhupada .
(Managed by Disciples): Please contact us +91-74-15-128866.
Hare Krishna Maharaj I applaud u for speaking the truth !U stand up for our dear Srila Prabhupada unlike Soo many others who r promoting themselves n not The Guru 🙏 who was nooo ordinary man but extraordinary man who walked this earth ! A true Parmahamsa🙏🙏💐💕
Such a sound advice. We can only hope that the GBC will somehow take this into careful consideration.
Jaya Guru Maharaj, I'm so so lucky to accept you as my Guru Maharaj, by Krsna's mercy, you are a true warrior of Srila Prabhupada!
Hare krsna maharaj... jai jai guru maharaj... whatever you say is right because your are the pure disciple of srila prabhupada...
Maharaja mention that female gurus are ok but only on the level of Jahnava Mata
Is it not the same when it comes to male gurus?
Where is consistency about the level of advancement of individual soul?
If I understand it correctly it's because when you get to that level you are beyond the role of your body. Until then you are still inside the normal system of things as defined by the body.
(Managed by disciples) In Gaudiya Sampradaya, we follow Narada Pancaratra and this gives us the way of to perform diksa and the method of worship of Krishna. In Narada Pancaratra (Bharadvaja Samhita) it is mentioned that men may assume the role of initiating spiritual master if they can come to the brahminical level even if not fully self-realized. However the same section of this text tells us that women cannot give diksa unless they have attained full self-realization. This is very rarely achieved. Please Bharadvaja Samhita (Narada Pancaratra) Text 38-44.
@Vakond Simple Glad that you stay away. We need people of deep understanding not shallow.
As usual Maharaja is trying to achieve the unity in diversity that Srila Prabhupada so earnestly desired for his ISKCON. The Amish take a similar approach; they don't try to rush through any kind of change that will impact the unity of their members. They will spend months discussing. This is the safe sattvik approach to try to ensure that everyone has a chance to consider the full ramifications of any changes in the hopes that their community remains together and strong. How can one realise stable, far reaching conclusions when a decision has to be reached within the span of an afternoon, or at most a day or two with many other pressing agenda items.
1st Womens Rights,,Then Black Body devotee RIGHTS,
,,Then Gay devotee RIGHTS,,,There is NO END TO THIS,,
,Mission Drifts -Compromise of K C.....NO END TO MAYA....
it does not drift it is in the ditch with smoking radiator...
Excellent sir ,Prabhu, NO compromise for reducing standards and reducing quality of pure devotional service else it is not pure service , and we get no much benefit ,if we compromise for rules and regulations given by acharyas and lord Krishna for ultimate benefit of all living entities .
S.K P hopefully he was being sarcastic
@@SKP-op4vd Good morning SKP, just to reassure, the Devotees of Krishna, are Far Far from Rasist etc. Our Very simple Philosophy is, That ALL beings are actually the (Atman , or the Soul. And that Soul (Atman), does indeed inhabit either a Black Body , White Body etc.
Everyone is Soul/spirit, which is true equality or the level of spirit. Very best wishes to you. Chris from Uk 🙏
Just follow as instructed nothing should be watered down, Krishna does not change to please the devotee , what rascal has the right to question Krishna or Prabhupada. Wanting to change vedic culture and etiquette thousands of years old to fit with nonsense, if u want lgbtq and are concerned about women's rights( whom are well respected within Iskcon) join the Christian s.Iskcon has had so much turmoil, stop disturbing and focus on soul not body.
PURITY IS THE FORCE - BOOKS ARE THE BASIS & PURITY IN UTILITY OF INSTRUCTIONS IN THOSE BOOKS IS THE PRINCIPLE
If there should have been Female gurus then there would have been during the time of Prabhupada ,the founder of Iskcon
Prahupada warned against changes
I love the courage and discrimination of Maharaja’s realism
From an old ex devotee. (but still a devotee in her heart) Just. . . . Wow! I mean I read 'Monkey on a Stick in the early 80.s. (knew some of the people in it) I also knew that the Sanyasis split, I thought , into two factions. Also saw a photo of one man on a viasasan with a mid evil crown and 'septer. Looking at it and thinking that was wrong. While I was in several temples I found one of them then abolished Mongal artika is when I knw something was wrong going on. Left shortly after that. For that and other reasons. Tell you later. if your want. Many stories are with me. Learning something here. Pronaums. To Srila Prabupada with what I can to my ability. Miss Loka Lila dasi. Power mad trips and how can the western Mind really understand eastern philosophy. Also too young to go to Sanyasa perhaps. With no householder experience etc. Just absolute power corrupts absolutely . I guess. Just too much. I just saw too much that I didn't want to see. Had to re-conoiter. (cant spell) Other things later. If you wish. I left in about 1975 or so.
Please write your stories and publish on CZcams atleast.
No doubt Revered Maharaj has deep love and concern for Srila Prabhupad and hence ISKCON . I'm not for or against FDG.
But Why this forum to discuss such 'internal' issues regarding ISKCON?
Even if I agree with all you say Revered Maharaj, I still am perplexed using this platform.
It's already delayed.
If pro fdgs can take the matter to popular media in Britain then why you are questioning maharaja using this platform. His whole talk began analysing that incident and you bring up such a complaint. This is typical case of asking who is Sita after hearing Ramayana. This shows you didn't hear it properly. Hear attentively few times, that should help you.
@@priyagovindadasabvks808 What you say is true. But someone stooping low doesn't justify me stooping. They are doing the shit open. Does that mean we too?
Definitely Srila Prabhupad is displeased for that. Do we want to bring him pleasure ?
If yes, doesn't it behoove us to settle our internal matters fair and square internally ?
Dear Manoj.
Please consider, what happened when the Kauravas were not ready to
give dharmic credence to Pandavas? All the channels were used and
still the issue was not solved. It was a matter of dharma and adharma,
not a matter of Pandavas wanting to rule over the kingdom. Thus when
all the efforts for peace situation were baffled, war was inevitable.
Following seems to be the situation at this moment:
-----------------------
" Throughout all this, the Pandavas had been consistently tolerant and
forbearing. But now war seemed inevitable.
Nonetheless, as the princes of the world divided, some siding with the
sons of Dhrtarastra, others with the Pandavas, Krsna Himself took the
role of messenger for the sons of Pandu and went to the court of
Dhrtarastra to plead for peace. When His pleas were refused, war was
now certain." (Setting the Scene, Bhagavad-gita As It Is)
---------------------------
This lecture is a plead for peace, if you carefully hear. Situation is
not yet out of control.
I am not saying that Maharaja is at war, but that there are
situations in which one need to come face to face in battle. Ksatriyas
fight by arms, brahmanas by talks. So here we are: this is the talk
and the other brahmanas should answer this. Maharaja is not
closed for any talks, infact for years he is pleading for talks; but
when not heard, what can be done.
It is not just a matter of some managerial mishap, but it is a matter
of dharma and adharma. For managerial mishaps like mishandling money
by temple presidents or even the greatest bodies, or mishandling
devotees, or even falldowns of some big devotees etc. it may be that
it can be tolerated even if one is not heard.
But for the dharma and adharma issues, you cannot tolerate adharma
being institutionalized. It is offense to Srila Prabhupada and if you
tolerate that then your bhakti becomes finished.
You are not able to
tolerate strict words against the GBC and some senior disciples of
Srila Prabhupada.
But then how are you able to tolerate deliberate offenses towards
Srila Prabhupada (by the leaders who spoke directly against varansarma
dharma in ILS meetings and GBC training sessions giving seminars
against Varnasrama, and many issues)?
Those who have sincerely dedicated their lives to Srila Prabhupada
will speak; and if one fails to speak then it is to be considered that
one is more attached to his comfort of not being harassed than to Srila
Prabhupada.
Regarding publically airing these issues please carefully read the
below article:
bvks.com/publicly-airing-iskcon-internal-issues/
Also FYI:
Whole of ISKCON India is against FDG. ISKCON India consists of 80-90%
of ISKCON in the world. Is it fair to not entertain even a thorough
discussion with ISKCON India before
passing the FDG resolution? (eventhough
GBC was pleaded by ISKCON India to not pass resolution before
talking with ISKCON India)
In ISKCON India meetings in Nov. 2019:
.....................................................................
ICC -- 73 voted against FDG, 3 in favor, 6 abstentions
IIAC -- 23 voted against FDGs, 2 in favor, 3 abstentions
Bureau -- 14 voted against FDGs, 1 in favor, 1 abstentions.
........................................................................
Still do you feel that this resolution should continue? even from the
democratic point of view it shouldn't.
Sastric view is already against FDGs
.
@@MahaRaasDas_official what takes to convince you to hear the lecture attentively and carefully? Again the same case of Sita and Ramayana. One of the major themes in the lecture is political behaviour of the GBCs. How can you have reasonable dialogue with the politicians? Kindly hear the lecture attentively few times, your issues will be sorted out.
BTW instead of coaching us on your concocted ethics and moral values on internet why don't you have dialogue with GBC.
My understanding was that Krsna Consciousness was the ultimate form of non discrimination because we're not this body, we're the soul. Am I wrong? What's going on?
(Managed by Disciples) Yes we are not the body, we are the soul. However at the moment we are all conditioned into thinking we are the body and so are under material forces like, sexual attraction, envy, greed, hunger, thirst etc. Therefore we need to live in a such a way as to minimizes these material vices and the best way to organize ourselves and live in such an organized way is to follow Krishna's system of Varnasrama. In this system there are specific gender roles whereby souls have specific roles according to their gender as mentioned in Srimad Bhagavatam 7.11.25-9 and Mahabharata.
@@BhaktiVikasaSwami Thanks for the prompt response. Given that Vedic scriptures don't contain all material knowledge such as math, chemistry, astronomy, physics, etc. Would it be safe to say that since there has been advances in material knowledge of the body and advances in modern medicine, that we now know more about the biological differences between the male and female material bodies than we did before? Most if not all ISKCON leaders take advantage of modern technology and modern medicine, then why not take advantage of material knowledge in understanding these biological differences? Please explain, I am open minded and am simply trying to understand. Thank you.
(Managed by disciples) Not very feasible to discuss here. If you wish you may call me on (+91) 9879064747. We can discuss.
We are not the body, but that doesn't mean we don't have a body. If you are not your body then go live in North Pole wearing bikini.
@@Radhaugo108 No it is not safe to say.
Hare Krsna, Pamho agtSP, thank you for the clear explanations on this topic... I am taking notes 🙏 I pray Krsna we can take auras knowledge and learn from Srila Prabhupada's teachings through parampara system and go back to Godhead! Hare Krsna
What about trans and non-binary diksa-gurus??
good question
I once saw that if a person wants to get diksa initiation he cannot do homosexual "practices"
and not exist this "pratices", but they need to stop this "pratices".
(that's what someone send to me, not my personal opinion)
I apologize for anything.
In order to be a guru one has to properly follow their sadhana bhakti as well as their varnasrama role. In that case they wouldn't be able to become a gur and unless they properly take up the Vedic path, which means leaving those practices.
My humble pranams Maharaj. It is impossible to object to your clear adherence to clear and simple principle of giving evidence from shastra for supporting a position. I am interested in your comment or reference to "yes, in very rare cases if the are on"such and such "level of spiritual realization. I cannot help feeling that if the same standard is upheld for ANY initiating guru... then we would as a body be giving ourselves so intently to spiritual sadhana that the nature of our positions in varnashram dharma would spontaneously harmonize. I would think that the material society at large would be far more naturally moved to "join" by witnessing the all-attractive manifestation of jaiva-dharma among Lord Caitanya's loving devotees. Obviously women have an extremely important role to play as preachers. Any truly Krsna conscious living entity will disseminate His grace. From within whatever appropriate position. All of us, men and woman, should aspire to attain that Bhakti to which there is "no impediment". THAT is the real "opportunity", the matchless gift, that our Srila Prabhupada is desiring we should all accept, in our utterly bereft conditions as materially conditioned women AND men.
(Managed by Disciples): Thanks a lot for your thoughtful comments. Please read "Mothers and Masters" for a thorough discussion of these topics. The link is given in the description below the video.
Yes, yes, yes!!!
44 minutes - 45 minutes.
"What is really required..."
21 Feminists didn't like this video.
Not all Men can become Masters and Not all Women can become Mothers.
He never says that
And your point is?
Dissent and difference should be respected. Des kal patra should also be remembered while taking decision.
Dissent and differences from the teachings of the Vedas and the pure devotees sent by Lord Krsna should NOT be respected.
Hare Krishna!
@@sridhara-syamadasa4577 Prji...You need some tolerance when practicing institutionalized Bhakti...it it not always my way or high way...important to respect other mature members in ISKCON....just becuase Bhakti Vikas Maharaj is saying something, all other also start doing the same ?...it may not be good for practicing devotees
30:28 Like for example "The Journey Home, Autobiography of an American Swami" by Radhanath Swami. This Mayavadi/neo-Mayavadi Radhanath Swami aka Richard Slavin committed a grave offence against our Founder-Acharya A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada by placing in the mentioned book the picture of Śrila Prabhupada along with the pictures of some Himalayan yogis smoking ganja. 😖😖😖
Hare krishna prabhu ji
Dandavat pranam
Maharaj's book on his autobiography is book of his life experience and establishes bhakti as supreme he is just mentioning different people he meet during his journey also HH Bhakti Vikas Swami maharaj and HH Radhanath swami maharaj share a good relationship so just by ardha kukuta dynya please don't offend him. Everyone here is trying to serve srila Prabhupad. Maharaj has produced a lot of fixed up vaishavas like HG Radhesyam pr, HG Gauranga pr etc.
Your servant
Also HH Bhakti Vikas Swami maharaj is also true he wants unaltered bhakti so person on his position can do we are not on his position
Please read the book first and than comment
Well before reading another other book one should finish prabhupada books. They r pure transcendental literature
First priority is understanding krishna consciousness through prabhupada books
many leaders are into their own wellbeing and stability within this mortal world... they don't know the purpose of sanyas
What is the purpose of sanyas ?
wow! I must listen to Maharaja much more.
In the eyes of Lord, both men and women are equal.........
In the eyes of Lord, only knowledge is the qualifying factor to be a guru. And hence, there should not be any bias based on gender.........
All souls are equal - hence the physical coat of men or women are just a maya. Lord Almighty is the ONLY Male and all other living beings are Women that seek to attain or reach the Only Man the Lord.......
There are several souls in women form that are equally qualified to lead and preach Krishna Consciousness and uplifted to become Gurus......
The essence of Vaishnavism is its all inclusiveness and equality, or even the superiority of Women to Men......
See the Vaishnava Names, for example, RADHA Krishna, LAKSHMI Narayanan, LAKSHMI Narasimhan, SEETHA Raman, JANAKI Raman, SHREE Nivas, SHREE Vatsan (Shree = Lakshmi). etc., it is first the Woman and then follows the man, even in names.....
If any have visited Srirangam Temple (The first of the 108 Vaishnava Kshetrams (sacred places), it is always the preferred sampradaya (practice) that anyone should visit the Lordess Sriranga Nachiyar first before visiting The Lord Ranganatha. This practice emphasises the priority to The Mother ahead to The Father. Even ancient scriptures prioritise the respect sequence as Martha (mother), Pitha (father), Guru (teacher), Brahman (Supreme God) - such is the priority given to Mother (or Women).
Realising that Vaishnavism exposes the fact that The Soul never dies, but only the body does, and The Soul is gender-neutral, there is no need to distinguish lives based purely on the external cover (the body). It is simply unacceptable in Vaishnavism to distinguish any Soul simply based on external (body) prejudices. Effectively, the eligibility to become a Guru is purely "knowledge " and NEVER the gender.
Shri Andal ( the incarnation of Lakshmi) is one of the 12 Alwars of Vaishnavism, and is the only women, but is fully equal in all respect to the remaining other male Alwars. (The Azhwaars, also spelt as alwaars or Alvar, were Tamil poet-saints of South India who espoused bhakti to the Hindu god Vishnu or his avatar Krishna in their songs of longing, ecstasy and service. They are venerated especially in Vaishnavism, which regards Vishnu or Krishna as the Supreme Being).
Having said the above, the non-availability of Women gurus in practice is either the result of (or practice of) a very male dominated society, or the reluctance of women to become a Guru. However it is to be realised that the qualification to be a Guru should purely be -knowledge-based and never gender based. And quite bluntly put, to attain the status of Guru - being a man is not an added qualification (advantage), or conversely put - being a women is not a disqualification (disadvantage). Effectively, the status of Guru is purely based on Knowledge along with other positive tenets.
So, there need be no hesitation to realise the fact that the status of Guru is a only a function of Knowledge. To discriminate any soul based purely on gender bias is not per Vaishnavism and to do so is a sin against a Soul.
It must also be realised that ISKCON has many women devotees doing direct service to Deities including performing poojas and other rituals in Temples. It must also to be noted that where there are men-only Poojaaris (Archakas) in other Vaishnava temples, it is only a traditional heriditorial rights that are followed - no other (men) outside the heriditory are eligible to perform Deity Pooja, implying that being just men is not an automatic qualification. Above all, It must be also recorded that ISKCON does approve and recognise pujaris purely based on merit and not any other rights.......
Hope I have expressed my own understanding of Vaishnavism. I never intent to hurt anyone who may have understanding different to mine. And my sincere apologies to all those who may have different opinion to mine........
Pranams to all Vaishnavas.........
Hare Krishna......Hari Bol......
🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
Hare Krishna.
On the spiritual platform, all are equal, men or women. The difference is on the bodily platform. That is completely true.
But it is also completely true that so long we are on the bodily platform and not above it, these differences are real for us. And thus all these rules need to apply. These are rules given by Lord Krishna Himself and should not be transgressed.
If you want to find out that you are on bodily platform or not then:
1. If you are even a slightly agitated seeing (or thinking about) naked picture of women (for women, picture of men; for gay etc. you all can figure out) then you are not above bodily platform
2. If you still feel hungry and thirsty beyond your control then you are not above bodily platform
3. If you can't do without sleeping, then you are not above bodily platform
4. If you are afraid of anything then you are not above bodily platform
5. If you are losing your sexual fluid by any illegetimate means then you are not above bodily platform
6. If you are not seeing Krishna Face to Face then you are not above bodily platform
And guess what..... Even those who are above bodily platform do follow these rules, especially separation of sexes in material world.
Examples are Lord Caitanya (CC Antya 13.78-87), Gaurakisora dasa babaji, and many others.
Your line of thought is well refuted by an article from the Harmonist at the times of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakur itself. This is a link to it:
www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/03-16/editorials13784.htm
Shri Andal never became diksa-guru
Sita-Rama, Laksami-Narayana, etc. Women are always respected above men. That is because of their chastity and not trying to put themselves above or equal to men, but keeping themselves always surrender to men. As soon as they try to equal, then they become spoiled. Srila Prabhupada says (Bg 16.7 purport):
As for behavior, there are many rules and regulations guiding human behavior, such as the Manu-samhita, which is the law of the human race. Even up to today, those who are Hindu follow the Manu-samhita. Laws of inheritance and other legalities are derived from this book. Now, in the Manu-samhita it is clearly stated that a woman should not be given freedom. That does not mean that women are to be kept as slaves, but they are like children. Children are not given freedom, but that does not mean that they are kept as slaves. The demons have now neglected such injunctions, and they think that women should be given as much freedom as men. However, this has not improved the social condition of the world. Actually, a woman should be given protection at every stage of life. She should be given protection by the father in her younger days, by the husband in her youth, and by the grownup sons in her old age. This is proper social behavior according to the Manu-samhita. But modern education has artificially devised a puffed-up concept of womanly life, and therefore marriage is practically now an imagination in human society. Nor is the moral condition of woman very good now. The demons, therefore, do not accept any instruction which is good for society, and because they do not follow the experience of great sages and the rules and regulations laid down by the sages, the social condition of the demoniac people is very miserable.
----------------------------------------------------
@Advaita Acarya dasa You should change your name, you name sounds very chauvinistic by the way! Your statements sound very hateful. You may have issues with Prabhupada, but unfortunately he created a movement, wrote books, had women disciples, treated them all equally, what have you done ? I mean really,lol who are you ?
How can u compare Shrimati Radharani or other forms of goddess with the humans here...In this material world everything is perverted..If we sees And beholds Lordess Sri Ranga nachiyar or Deitiy of Srimati Radharani for 30 minutes then all his lust will mitigate and vanish..But if one beholds the face of a woman then his lust will aggravate..Therefore it is always advised to look at the feet of women.. there is a wide gulf if difference between both
In the ramayan while lord Hanuman was searching for sita in a forest he meets a sadhvi and takes her blessings and we have also heard about shabari who served as a disciple of matanga muni when matanga muni suggests shabari to serve lord rama . And you know that what happens further. you say that in manu smriti women should not get freedom in the ancient vedic period women were in every field later due to the portugese and britishes in the view of her safety the shelter system has started and also male started to dominate women.
@@damodara_BVKS These shelter system came into practice when Portuguese came for trade to our country however there were many women gurus in ramayana who became sadhvis at their young age. When lord hanuman went for searching sitadevi he met a sadhvi in a forest who was staying alone in a cave hanuman took her blessings and left the place and continued to search sita.
If you think women cannot give innitation then you are wrong.once When ramakrishna was in forest he met a female guru her name was bhiravi she gave innitation to rama Krishna.
Even buddha encouraged female monks.
Women cannot get enlightened by living continuously with her family it is difficult for many great gurus to get enlightened after being in the shelter of his guru and after taking sanyasa diksha when it comes to women it is impossible for her to get enlightened even she is a human she is not a computer to control her own mind she can control her mind only after taking sanyasa deeksha.
Hare Krishna Maharaj! 🙏🏼 Dandavat pranam 🙇🏻♀️ Your words are potent indeed. Seeds of dissent planted today, WILL grow into big trees that cannot be uprooted easily. Dialogue is surely the key. 🙏🏼
Hare Krishna. Even though I am very much inspired by your words and agree to this video, I feel at some situations, your stand could be very hard against your god brothers which may make things difficult for others to accept including myself. Moreover, your main area of preaching is not western world which may make things difficult for you to convince those who are preaching in the west (doesn’t mean they are right). Also, it seems like because of slow progress of preaching in west, GBC is quite uneasy and is trying to take these steps... My question to you maharaj is that even though what steps you are taking in this regard is very much acceptable to me and you may continue but another approach which could be added is to educate the people nicely to learn the books of Srila Prabhupada and make them understand that what is right and what is wrong and then even if we have some provision by GBC for possible FDG but if the standards of the community increases and they know scriptures more, they will themselves avoid this provision (and this provision can stay available for emergencies like what traditionally happened in our Parampara.) Thank you for the amazing service.
Thank you so much guru maharaj,
Hare Krishna, did Srila Prabhupad ever give permission to his successors to be Diksha gurus or just Shiksha guru?
Asking such a question means that you are either too young to be on the internet and should ask your parents such questions or that you are Rtvik trying to cause trouble. Please go away and don't bother other people. Come back when you grow up physically or spiritually as the case may be.
Even bhakti siddhanta saraswati thakur didn't ask his disciples including srila Prabhupada to give initiation and have disciples.according to sastra if guru enters the eternal pastimes of Sri Sri radha and Krishna then the disciples can give diksha and have their own disciples.that's how parampara system works.
Both of GBC and BBT are using the power vested with them in an ILL MANNER!
Trying to deviate the ISKCON movement fom the intended objectives.
Kindly consider this prabhu ji and raise your voice against them.
Hk! 🙏Pamho, agtSP, Very nice topic to attract many devotees... And ultimately we are not this body and we are not this job or this speaking, everything is up to Krsna the most attractive One and the Godhead🙏 Thank you Hare Krsna!
UPDATE-----They didn't LIsten,,,,,,,Now they will Pay the Price,,,,,,,,,,,A BIG ONE.
Hare Krishna maharaj dandvat pranam
Many people says that such differences are like the differences of Radha and Chandravali in serving Krishna. So as disciples and junior devotees we should just respect each opinion and need not worry much.
But I feel it to be a more serious issue as something taking away the absolute stand stand of Srila Prabhupad.
I would request the devotee taking charge of this page to ask maharaj this question. I would be very grateful.
Hare Krsna 🙏🏻 Maharaj,
I'm afraid, GBC would do something to you
Very grave and important topic. May your wise suggestions to the GBC based on guru, sastras and saddhus been heard, in order to rejuvenate properly the goal of our ISKCON society.
I hope that a lot of devotees will listen carefully to this video.
Equality-gender agenda is of the same kind as the so-called contribution of veganisme, coaching, yoga course, new-age philosophy, feminism, etc. Actully, It's a big nuisance and is desstroying the purety of our message...
The comparaison you made in the beginning with the rapid growth of islam, although women in islam are in general not well treated is very appropriate
Dandavat pranams.
Prabhuji...devotees are using various means to bring new people to KC..that does not mean they are diluting KC....even traditional people of Bharat criticized Srila Prabhupad for opening temples in West without Gopurams..people failed to understand mood of Vaishnava....we need to take advantage of situation and preach KC....I fully agree with your point that the core principles of Krishna Consciousness should not be diluted
@@ksp463 Srila Prabhupada's standards are indeed being diluted and casual/politically correct opinions are the reason behind this. Read his books, choose the right guru and serve. That's perfection.
I remember one of your teachings when you gently speak obout if kali Yuga is in ISCKON?
What is the silly autobiography he refers to at 30.28?
Quite probably Radhanath Swamis autobiography.
Swamiji pranam hare krishna. Hari om
What are the genuinely good reasons for preventing women from being diksha gurus? Where in Sruti, the unchanging Vedas does it say women can't be priests?
Hare Krishna's always talk of the Vedas, but they never quote the Vedas, they quote the Srimad Bhagvatam or the Bhagavad Gita.
(Managed by disciples) Is Srimad Bhagavatam and Bhagavad-gita not part of the Vedas? If you think so then this is Sruti Sastra Nindanam, blasphemy of sastra. They are both glorified. Srimad Bhagavatam is the topmost part of the Vedas, according to Vedavyasa, who compiled the Vedas. Bhagavad-gita is the essence of all Vedic knowledge.
The Gaudiya Vaisnava Sampradaya, like the Sri Sampradaya, base their diksa and methods of worship (tantra) on the Narada Pancaratra. The following verses Text 38 - 43 occur in Bharadvaja Samhita which is part of Narada Pancaratra and they explain the eligibility of someone to become a diksa guru. Please note verse 42 and 43 which categorically forbid women from becoming diksha gurus. This is proof from Vedic texts that women are not to become diksha gurus.
prapitsurmantra-nirataṁprājñaṁhita-paraṁśucim|
praśāntaṁniyataṁvṛttau bhajed dvija-varaṁgurum||38||
“Thus, one who is desirous of surrendering with faith should take shelter of a guru who is always engaged in chanting the mantra and is a knower of bhakti-siddhānta(prājñam), is always engaged, without any desire for personal benefit, in showering mercy on fallen souls (hita-param), who is always pure in heart or free of sins, peaceful, and always committed to his prescribed duties (ordained by his guru or by varṇāśrama). Such a guru should be the best of the twice-born (dvija-varammeaning brāhmaṇa).”
sapta-pūruṣa-vijñeye santataikānti-nirmale|
kule jāto guṇairyukto vipro śreṣṭhatamo guruḥ||39||
“The best guru of all is a learned brāhmaṇa endowed with good qualities who has taken birth in a sinless lineage of devotee ancestors, traceable up to seven generations.”
svayaṁvā bhakti-sampanno jñāna-vairāgya-bhūṣitaḥ|
sva-karma-nirato nityamarhatyācāryatāṁdvijaḥ||40||
“Even if a twice-born brāhmaṇa (dvija) happens to have some non-devotees in his family line, or has not been fortunate to take birth in a renowned family of devotees, he nevertheless always deserves to be an ācāryaif he is endowed with all good qualities like knowledge and renunciation, is engaged in his prescribed duties (sva-karma), and is steeped in loving devotion to the Lord.”
nācāryaḥkula-jāto’pi jñāna-bhakty-ādi-varjitaḥ|
na ca hīna-vayo-jātiḥprakṛṣṭānāmanāpadi ||41||
“On the other hand, one cannot become an ācārya even if one is born in a great family line (as mentioned before)but is devoid of jñāna, bhakti,good qualities, etc.Also, unless there is an emergency, an ācāryafrom a lower birth or age should not initiate a person from a higher birthor age.”
na jātu mantra-dā nārī na śūdro nāntarodbhavaḥ|
nābhiśasto na patitaḥkāma-kāmo’pyakāminaḥ||42||
“Even then, a woman, a śūdra and an antyaja can never act as an initiating guru, nor can anyone who is accused of a great sin or is fallen.And an aspiring disciple who is already accomplished in detachment (akāmī) should never accept a guru who is infected with material desires.
”striyaḥśūdrādayaścaivabodhayeyurhitāhitam|
yathārhaṁmānanīyāśca nārhantyācāryatāṁkvacit||43||
“Women, śūdras,etc., can give ethical and moral instructions and are also worthy of respect as per their qualifications and conditions but are not entitled to get the position of ācārya.”
I am an outsider... but can i
ask: can women pray Brahma Gayatri in ISKCON?
It was initially permitted for a particular time but the order from Srila Prabhupada was to eventually establish Varnasrama and in that case women won't chant Brahma Gayatri. They would perform Stri dharma, women's duties.
@@BhaktiVikasaSwami Radhe Radhe
@@BhaktiVikasaSwami But they should no longer do so.
What point of this explanation people don't like? Maharaja speak against sastras and acaryas? So people are against sastras and acaryas? Maharaja don't wanna to talk about this, but about Krishna kata...but our falid societ are completely lost in that kinds of unnecessarie topics...this is realy bad...untilll our very valiable human form of life was been loose because we still don't undesrtand the Absolut True...please excuse this wrong english...I am from Brasil..HARE KRISHNA is universal linguage...👍
Apoio Administrativo Hare Krishna 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
If a female is an uttama Bhakta they can be a diksha Guru. There is shastric support for this. Please refer to Sri Jahnavi in the Bhakti ratnakar. She initiated some very famous Vaisnavas.
Maharaj mentioned this in the beginning of his speech.
But for man?
Can he be kanista?
It sounds off to me
@@krsnalokavibes8903 Please refer to Bg 3.35, 18.47 about doing prescribed duties.
Ty Gurudeva
@4:00
@13:33
@14:38
@15:54
@39:55 Feminism comes from Marxism
{@40:50 Guru Maharaj mispronounced Rajiv in stead of Raajiv, I am pointing out for those who propagate to imitate Guru Maharaj's pronunciation. In fact Guru Maharaj has given lecture about this issue about Srila Prabhupad czcams.com/video/34d-EWijmIo/video.html}
Hare Krishna..... Jai gurudeb
Om namo bhagwato vasudevai
I really wana know. Cause I left in about 1974ish.
remember what happened in new vrndavan when kirtananda and others started adjusting the rules??
😂😂😂😂....Keep on doing this ..Mr. Criticizer
I do! What happened at New Vrindavan was that women were told time and again that what he was doing was for their benefit. Kirtananda was a demon but he was a demon because HE used women and children as sexual objects; women, children and men like you do not want to be deceived and used this way.
👏👏
Its ALL ONE--EQALITY -
-Mayavadi.-Marxism=Communism-Mundane
Liberalism =..Impersonal---even Atheist.
Twenty two feminists didn't like this.
Didn't Srila Prabhupada refer to a female devotee as not a woman, but a Vaishnava.
(Managed by Disciples) Yes but quite often he also referred to them as women as in the quote below;
Yogesvara: So here's a problem: The women today want the same rights as men. How can they be satisfied?
Prabhupada: Everything will be satisfied. Just like our women, Krsna conscious, they are working. They don't want equal rights with the men. It is due to Krsna consciousness. They are cleansing the temple, they are cooking very nicely. They are satisfied. They never said that "I have to go to Japan for preaching like Prabhupada." They never say. This is artificial. So Krsna consciousness means work in his constitutional position. The women, men, when they remain in their constitutional position, there will be no artificial
[Morning Walk - May 27, 1974, Rome]
What exactly is your point?
If a fallen soul like me can firmly understand this.. I wonder how come GBC is giving a second thought?
I remember him....
Islam grows rapidly through birth rate, not some inspiration of spirituality. It is kind of irrelevant whether they are male or female preachers.
(Managed by Disciples)The aim of the Krishna consciousness movement may not be what the aim of some other religious groups is or what your idea of what its aim should be. The aim is not to simply expand in numbers but to spiritualize the planet and spread love of god, through teachings of Bhagavad-gita, Srimad Bhagavatam and Caitanya Caritanrta.
@@BhaktiVikasaSwami understood, but a person's sex is secondary, not who they actually are. A Vaishava is a Vaishava, not their sex. I thought Srila Prabhupada made a similar remark with regard to one of his female devotees. On the lines of she is not a woman, she is a Vaishava/i.
@@kumarsa108 You may not be your body, but you still have a body. And it is with that body that you serve. That is the purpose of Varna Ashrama Dharma.
It is by conversion not birth. It is explained here 28:14 how is it you understood so wrongly?
Jai maharaj
first perspective if srila prabhu pad wanted fdg he woud hv arranged this at that time only, now in hindu sanatan parampara its not allowed and not approved in any single scriputres, but it does not mean women cant discuss and give lectures and inspire others, example is Madalsa, mirabai ,and they were very great devotees and very much revered Mirabai even met srila sanatan goswami as well.but women should not be on vyasana or as guru, and it was well respected by six goswamis, and even chaitanya mahaprabhu. women are godess as they give birth to great saints and devotees and give bhakti sanskaras to their children ,women are the maker of society, but women are not allowed in between sanyasis, and become diksha guru in gaudiya or any samparadaya, yes but if any wants to create their own religion or sect then krishna save them. hari bol ,no offence to even one, i am just dasanudas,i know from gita that Only praman(proof) of what to do or not do is not even what krishna or god says its scriptures, shashtra is the praman only as said by shri krishna in bhagwat gita.
What about Jhanava Mata, Ganga Mata Goswamini, Hemalata Thakurani all three were female Diksha Gurus in our Gaudiya Sampradaya. I am not saying that there should be female Diksha gurus I am only saying that contrary to what you stated "now in Hindu sanatan parampara it's not allowed and not approved in any single scriptures" There are in fact female Diksha Gurus in our Gaudiya Sampradaya. So it is not impossible but they have to be qualified.
@@moviemaker60fps that is what was on my mind too....
@@moviemaker60fps
Harmonist from Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura's time Answers you question thus:
======================
In Kali-yuga women's qualification for renouncing the family is very rare, even if we say that it is completely absent that would not be an exaggeration. There are hardly one or two (kvacit dui ekṭi) examples of especially qualified women like Gaṅgāmāta, whose qualification for gṛha-tyāga and kṣetra-sannyāsa etc. was always perfect (nitya-siddha), if we accept their capability as a general rule a great disaster will come upon the world. Women should perform hari-bhajana without duplicity while staying at home.
========================
Read Full Article at:
www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/03-16/editorials13784.htm
@Dharma World Order
Besides her, there is no FDGs in the parampara and all of their acharyas say that Females can't become diksa-guru. So do you want to say that acaryas like Ramanuja either didn't understand that there can be FDGs or that they were mysogynists?
@@moviemaker60fps
This is regarding females like Jahnava Mata:
These are very few examples. But if you see from sastras there are thousands of examples of liberated women who did not become diksa-gurus. What about that?
For instance, Devaki, Kunti, Yashoda, Rukmini, Satyabhama, Sita, Suniti, and many others.
So if you are going to come to conclusion just by seeing examples then there are many more examples of no-FDGs then FDGs.
Is this the original upload or has this been released around time of recording?
(Managed by disciples): Original upload.
TRANSLATION un Spanish please
MAHARAJ,,,Thousands of Devotees...outside the Institutions MISTAKES-...Agree with you,,
-,The GBC IS NOT IN LINE with HDG Srila Prabhupada--MY Saying this
IS NOT OUT OF Envy - FAULT Finding or Back Stabbing POLITICS..--------.ITS FACT.
I think the reason this is going on is..the abuse of children and women in the past by men in the movement..out of false ego and superiority complexes🙏🙏🙏🙏
Speculation. This is emotional blackmail trying to manipulate people by blaming a whole class of people for misdeeds (if any) of a few. It doesn't work and just creates resentment at obvious attempt at manipulation.
A suggested solution. ...
In India under no circumstances lady Diksa Gurus .
PRABHUPADA did not allow ladies to do some aspects of Deity service, being sensitive to local traditions.
In the west try a pilot scheme, for 5 years in USA. Only limited lady Diksa Gurus ,and only on the grounds they already have a Siksa following, But to serve only actively in USA. And only with citizens of the USA. with
Limits of 2 only .
After a period of 5 years make an assessment of the services carried out and reflect on the outcomes for the society, for the Gurus and their prospective disciples. In terms of spiritual advancement and dedication to Srila Prabhupada and his direction for his society.
Y.s Sukadeva das
Revisit the matter after 5 years .
It is not according to sastra. So it shouldn't be instituted Bg 16.23.
This is regarding having zonal approval of FDGs:
----------------------------------
By this logic, we can then even try abolishing the 4th regulative principle (no llicit sex) and allow gays, lesbians, trans, and all others to get initiated. But not in India, outside India.
Also we can think of abolishing all the 4 regs could be implemented in different zones as per what the people can accept and what not.
I think this will really be problem solver proposal for ISKCON conflicts. This way of thinking. Let us follow how the people want.
But then ISKCON may become International Society for Kali Consciousness and not what Srila Prabhupada established. He will leave ISKCON.
Besides that, even if you are to implement the way you said, those from India who want to be initiated will go to the US and get initiated there. Do you want to say that the disciples of FDGs will not be allowed to enter India? If so then how are you going to make this arrangement practically? Will you go to the Indian government and amend the cross border acts?
Intelligent solution.
Women´s liberation! We are not the body. And btw for a woman it is much easier to love Krishna ... while men are guided by their lower body
Yes. Women are by birth liberated. While all males are guided by their lower body. Then why do you scream about liberation?
Just read Prabhupada's books and watch his and Maharaja's lectures on it. You will get your answers.
@@hanssahoo7206 She is not looking for an answer.
If you love Krsna then why you don't love His instructions given in sastra? Fake.
Buddha is the incarnation of lord vishnu then why did he accept female disciples along with men now men and women are living separately. Women are giving deeksha only for women and men are giving deeksha only for men.
Even swami vivekananda accepted female disciple she is sister nivedita and later he made separate facilities for men and women as we know rama Krishna mission is for men and sarada mission is for women the women diksha gurus give deeksha for only women.
(Managed by Disciples) Although Buddha is an incarnation of Lord Visnu he came for a specific purpose and did not directly preach Vaisnavism. Vaisnavas do not follow his philosophy as it does not inculcate love of god as Vaisnava dharma is supposed to. So one should not expect it to conform to strict Vedic or Vaisnava dharma or siddhanta.
@@BhaktiVikasaSwami ok, but matanga maharshi accepted shabari has his desciple and gave deeksha to her later she had the darshan of lord rama.
In udupi one of the senior guru gave deeksha to a women long back now her age is around 82 who is living in uttarakhand. The senior swamiji has been passed away last year.
(Managed by Disciples) In ISKCON also women can take diksha. The point that Maharaja is establishing is that they cannot *give* diksha.
Women are takers, men are givers by natures law.
Givers can give to a giver, but a taker can only take.
I wonder how all the GBC members could be biased. I shiver at the thought that ISKCON is in hands of those who downplay Srila Prabhupad. How could this be ? How can so many advanced devotees have their conscience sleeping ?
Burke Ruchford or such individuals could have vested interests or skewed observation.
I really don't come to a conclusion after listening to only 'one-side'.
May Revered Maharaj pose these question to GBC and let GBC release an official reply for better clarification.
I want to know the purpose of posting this video here. It creates suspicion in neophytes like me and alienates others from GBC.
Could Revered Maharaj reply why he's talking what he's talking( regardless if it has 100% authenticity) here. Is this the forum to raise such issues ?
Well he has already mentioned that the official forums are closed. And his message is to start a dialog at least. If a dialog is not happening now, what other recourse does he have to put forth his views?
@Harry Harry That's good advice. Thank you pr .
Hare Krishna Manoj prabhuji,
Please keep reading Srila Prabhupad books and hearing lectures everything will be clear in due course of time. This is just transcendental topic where devotees may have difference of opinion. But, be sure every GBC member is working for positive development of our ISKCON movement.
We should be more focused in our Sadhna and preaching. In Kaliyuga many issues will be there even amongst devotees but we should always remain part of ISKCON and never leave as it is Srila Prabhupada's body.
Why you have to say demons or crazy, why are you putting those words in Kalakantha prabhu's mouth ? You are making the accusation worse by using those extreme words. Please reply!!!
(Managed by Disciples) Maharaja is following Srila Prabhupada who in Bhagavad-gita 16.7 called people who promote women's equality or independence as 'demons'.
"Now, in the Manu-samhita it is clearly stated that a woman should not be given freedom. That does not mean that women are to be kept as slaves, but they are like children. Children are not given freedom, but that does not mean that they are kept as slaves. The **demons** have now neglected such injunctions, and they think that women should be given as much freedom as men. However, this has not improved the social condition of the world. Actually, a woman should be given protection at every stage of life. She should be given protection by the father in her younger days, by the husband in her youth, and by the grown-up sons in her old age. This is proper social behavior according to the Manu-samhita."
[Bhagavad-gita 16.7]
18:16 That GBC was Ravindra Swarupa, the main architect for introducing Cultural Marxism into ISKCON
Maharaj favourate topic
What does THAT mean. ????
heheheh devine GBC...
Iskcon failed a long time ago
Just claiming into the void won't bear u any fruit..Come out of this phantasmagoria
If you want it to not fail then why don't you become a disciple of HH Bhakti Vikasa Swami and make ISKCON great again?