AMD Ryzen 8000 Delidded - Liquid Metal Changes Everything!
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- čas přidán 17. 05. 2024
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Music / Credits:
Outro:
Dylan Sitts feat. HDBeenDope - For The Record (Dylan Sitts Remix)
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Paid content in this video:
- Hetzner Spot
Samples used in this video:
- All Grizzly Products
Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
1:22 Hetzner (Advertising)
2:05 Optics: 8700G vs 7950X
2:40 CPU vs APU
3:22 Test setup
4:01 Cinebench R23 in initial state
4:44 Overclocking via PBO
5:33 Overclocking
6:06 Temperature limit
6:54 Delidding
7:55 Delidded APU
9:37 Measuring the 8700G
11:05 No direct die
11:41 Measuring the heatspreader
13:29 Test with KryoSheet
14:49 Comparison of test values
16:20 Why Delidding on the 8700G?
17:57 Temperatures with LM in comparison
20:38 Summary/Conclusion
21:38 Outro - Věda a technologie
Ok, that optical height measurement tool is sick.
AMD is also going to intel's path of shiiiity TIM
"Oh, Dear can I get an optical height measurement tool for my computer?"
@@DIYTech21 AMD is dead, they failed.
Intel is still producing CPU's !
German engineering is dead too !
@@lucasremhuh
@@lucasrem bro is mad that AMD is better than intel.
Now put ddr5-8000 and OC the iGPU. The memory controller on the ryzen APUs tend to OC much higher.
100% this
Why
Some people hit 10000-11000
@@visitante-pc5zc Because the memory controller is integrated into the same 4nm die as the cores.
In the regular Ryzen 7000 lineup, memory controller sits in the 6nm cIOD.
That's also why FCLK (Infinity fabric controller) reach 2400Mhz easily while it usually goes up to 2000-2100Mhz on Ryzen 7000x.
@@visitante-pc5zc Because DDR5 shows actual performance gains when using RAM with a higher frequency/higher data rate. You can gain upwards of 5% going from base speeds to 6000MHz, and being able to run 8000MHz or more is even more performance.
That 3D profiler is so cool.
You need a measuring tool for the 3D printer ?
Germans are cool, need that on social ? Klates menschen
@@lucasrem Hah. That tool probably costs as much as a CNC mill. Which is to say, new cars are cheaper. On the other hand, a 3D printer that could actually use that level of accuracy would probably cost the same.
Haha, sustained 5.3GHz on all cores and sub 80*C under load is insane! What a beast.
Makes me excited for ryzen 9000 and what it’s capable of
Why
Check out intel.
Yes _but_ only 16MB L3 cache and PCIe 4.x so you're limited in other ways, will have to push RAM and IF speed for it.
just 110W is as well as impressive.
Now clock the living crap out of the gpu and put some 7200 ram and compare stock with a somewhat cpu bound game to the overclocked version. I firmly believe many good games will run well over 60 fps on that thing. Typical games i can see this for is PUBG, Wow, Tomb Raider, and even Cyberpunk, but it would be amazing to see how it does with Tarkov.
Maybe can scope in on streets without losing frames XD
I am more interested in improving 1% low fps in games like CS2 to avoid those laggspikes when playing on competitive levels.
7200 is child's play. These chips are setting records for DDR5. Already 10600 has been done at ambient.
DDR5 10 000 MT/S+++ and you've got GTX 1070 performance :-D
@@alexskywalker888on intel
Would of been good to see the graphics improvements from that aswell.
"Would *have..."
@@tomppeli.woulda….
@@tomppeli. waddle
I was waiting for such a video from a Buildzoid, but not sure if he's actually going to do something like that
Skatterbencher overclocked both the CPU and IGPU, and he confirmed it loves faster ram. Perhaps some Patriot Viper Xtreme 5 PC5-65600 (8200MT/s) . Skatterbencher doubled his tomb raider score from stock when he oc'd the CPU and IGPU, and he only overclocked his ram to EXPO 7800 but said he wasnt sure what timings to adjust to to get better stability. So now we have more thermal headroom for even greater overclocking and tinker with ram timings on Hynix A die kits. Maybe we can get closer to matching a 6500 xt???
I love how your cat @6:05 looks exhausted from all the testing and overcloking he had to make.
Thank you so much for the strobe warning. My epileptic ass appreciates it.
I would like to see an overclock on the integrated graphics using liquid metal and the AIO directly on the DIE to know which dedicated GPU it can replace in extreme situations. If there is a channel that can do this, believe it is yours!
Those are some FANTASTIC RESULTS!!! What a HUGE IMPROVEMENT!!!! WOW!!!
And I just LOVE your new potical toy!!! I hope you show more of it when Zen 5 comes out and you design the de-lidder and everything... I LOVE seeing the process!!!
Would be interesting to see the temp changes when using the igpu as well.
Everything is in same die. What do you think it will be?
@@tr9036 Is the package power limit the same for cpu only vs gpu only vs mixed workloads? The gpu cores are also located on a different part of the die (obviously) so the heat density of the workloads should presumably be different. It isn't a given at all that the result would be the same.
@@Your_Paramour So, you know most of the things pretty detailly. I suggest you to not expect anything major.If cpu goes up to 93, gpu will go max 70-80 since it is just a simple gpu.
Or the frequency changes. When I load the iGPU on the 7600 when it's overclocked, even by 100Mhz, it locks it to ~2700 despite having a little temperature headroom. (Also ASUS's UEFI setting for GFX Core Offset doesn't seem to work, I have to use the AMD overclocking settings for voltage adjustment. CPU CO settings work fine.)
i was wondering why he didnt test it, as an improvement in the igpu could mean this thing is viable to run game even better
The analytical analysis' this channel does is freaking amazing. I love the testing this channel does. Keep it up!
I love these types of videos as you do it just for fun and to see what happens. Keep doing more of these.
Very nice video, love seeing all the tech stuff.
@8:30 the 8700G top left reminds me of Duron/Athlon days
like the black 'pads'?
@@Enozenim_LJOholy shit yea, looks like s462 cpus
@@00zero557Aikr super cool coincidence
and the colour! @@Enozenim_LJO
The black pads on the Durons. Lol, yep, I feel that bro.
Definitely going to help some PC user down the road. I see those questions on forums asking for help to run some software on their older PC.
Man this was so exciting to watch thanks for the great vid!
Awesome..... I want to see more stuff to deep dive in hardwares technology and new testing mechins.... 🔥
Great video, really enjoyed!
Also Thanks Roman for never failing to have something entertaining to watch, when im bored on sundays.
Have a nice Weekend!
"Why are we even doing this on a 8700g? I dont know, because I like it."
Hell yeah, it's called passion
great video sir, love watching your reviews, keep up great work
Roman you are the best! I haven't seen YT feed me your channel in a few months so glad they fixed that
Man, you brought dealing to a whole other level, kudos to you! Keep going!
I would rather concentrate on OC'ing the iGPU part of the Ryzen 8000. That is the sole purpose of its existence, and of course, monolithic AMD die always comes with a higher FCLK and memory clock limit.
That was an interesting video. That scanner is mind-blowing!
Saw the -25° in the thumbnail and was looking forward to seeing some LN2 action 🤦🤣
what a showcase, so informative and enjoyable😄
It be interesting to see what kind of improvements it could do in gaming vs stock. Cool video!
I actually just bought this processor for a compact build. I would love it if you made an improved heat spreader that is compatible with the 8700g. From that i can tell all it would take is a bump in the middle like on the ihs. Im really glad i saw this though because i was going to buy your original improved heat spreader Mondy.
They make great products, well aside from the plastic thing which goes around the outside of ryzen 7k series cpu's. Had one tear on me then just went fuck this shit.
You don't need to buy a delidder or anything. Use a piece of dental floss to cut the glue. Do each leg individually and it only takes 10 min. Completely safe. Then put some nail polish on the SMDs and apply liquid metal. You'll get the same results as shown here.
Great info and fun to watch, Roman! :) With liquid metal and your skills, I'm very interested to see both CPU and iGPU max. performance under simultaneous load, i.e. mimicking the heaviest CPU and graphics demanding games.
Great video, thanks a lot!
You made this very interesting. Thank you.
great tuning result!
16:30 I got mine recently and Nuctua instructions daid for amd 5 you need to munt the cooler offset due obvious design of the chip,but for the 8700g is not needed I think. So 1 thing we learn,even other manufacturers could benefit. So thanks!
Hands down best hardware channel on tube! Great stuff!
Great video thanks Der8auer
WOW!!! the tools for the job... 3d profiler is amazing !!!
Hardly understand any of what you’re talking about, but I love how approachable you make everything. Very very cool channel. Thanks for your input into the English community!
Man uses stupidly expensive measuring equipment to verify his company's products are compatible with a part... More seriously, it was fun and I wish I had those cool toys, I mean tools.
I'll give some basics in case you or anyone else isn't aware. With the caveat that my degree focused on the electronics and low level programming side. Thermal transfer is more of a Mechanical Engineer's domain.
The goal is to move heat away from the chip as efficiently as possible. Three things affect that, chip temperate, temperature of the thing the heat is moving to, how well the stuff between those two conducts heat. Which is further affected by two things, how much stuff there is and it's "thermal conductivity". More or less, the chip's temperature is relatively fixed. A perfectly efficient normal cooler would mean the other side is room temperature. Since he's using the same cooler for both tests that's also fixed here. Which means playing with that 3rd variable.
Stupid example, if you put a square of fabric cut from an oven mitt, the heat wouldn't move from the chip to the cooler that well. Both because it would be thick and because fabric does not conduct heat well. Same thing goes with air. Any air gap means you have an insulator. The thermal paste that came on the chip had a thickness and liquid metal is thinner, so he was measuring to make sure there would not be an air gap.
The reasons those two products are better than stock is because the Cryosheet has a higher thermal conductivity. Meanwhile, liquid metal is both thinner* and has a higher thermal conductivity. To be honest, the Cryosheet result was the craziest part to me. Mostly because that's the type of thing that could be easily done by AMD at the factory for < $10 per chip to improve performance by a meaningful margin.
* Manufacturing tolerances and material selection do mean AMD isn't deliberately making things thick just to decrease performance.
Great improvement really, nice video.
i bought from you an i7 8700k delidded plus liquid metal, still going strong after 5 years. Never needed to reapply the LM, using it daily.
I have toyed with having one of these in a smaller PC, while I would probably just stream games to it via steam I do like the idea of it being able to run some of the older games I might play and it makes more sense than a console at least in the use case I'm thinking of. You kind of covered the reasoning though :P
would also be interesting to see igpu overclocking. also ram speeds is an interesting topic with those APUs) a lot of possible content actually
From the CES videos, I remember seeing AMD showcasing I think baulders gate 3 and starfield running at fairly low settings... But both were running at the same time, with no perceivable lag (at least from the video I saw). Quite exciting seeing an APU manage that. :)
Hi der8! Great Vid 🙂
Love your tools / toys.
After a few years use, my 2400G was becoming horrible to cool. I used your previous delidding video for that CPU and it completely changed the CPU. Better than new temperatures, even moving it to a smaller case/smaller cooler afterwards.
It’s disappointing that AMD don’t solder these, as I never want to NEED to delid again. I thought that went away with Skylake. :(
I love these kinds of videos, thanks Roman!
Awesome video & test, thank you! Currently using a 5700G for a DAW, so the 8700G obviously has my interest. I definately would be interested in a liquid metal version with the performance gains shown!
Can recommend upgrading. I also had a 5700G, now a 8700G, vast improvement!
Thank you for this analysis !
Please make more AM5 performance heatspreader.
great vid as always. thx
Love how the cat just chills there! 😺😺
Hey Roman have you tried cooling the glue of the IHS down with ice spray or something to a brittle state before delidding? It might make it much easier with elasticity of the glue mostly gone.
Super cool video as always.
That was pretty awesome. Scored about the same as my old 5900X
Very fun video. Cool what you can coax out of a mobile chip with a good heat solution.
Thanks for the entertaining video.
Wow, I was not expecting the first type of delid, I didnt know such method exist.
16:32 "why are we even doing this?" honestly, it's the best performance increase that somebody on an AMD platform would see... unless I'm not informed and AMD has switched back to using paste on their CPU's
also, it's great content. I love seeing when liquid metal makes a difference on pasted CPU's.
* on an actual AMD platform
Because pretty sure a vintage build with delidding, watercooling and LM can easily achieve more perf increase compared to stock.
@@PainterVierax in the "old" days when an amd 450mhz was the top of the line cpu, it could be clocked stable to 900+mhz with watercooling. Try that with any new cpu today
@@scaniav8530able I know, that's why I'm saying! It's crazy how nowadays people spend a lot more extra money for a lot less perf gains.
@@PainterVierax I know. That's why I rather run mostly stock and paired to only what games I play now
Looks sweet. I’m still loving my 7600 non - x. The low power draw and low temps while still providing performance continues to impress me.
The 7600 and 7600X are great intro AM5 products.
And you can totally push it to ~5.3Ghz with a tweaked base clock and good cooling, although it's not got the best silicon quality so cores can use a lot of power. Impressed with what can be done with a 2 CU RDNA2 iGPU as well, although it's unfortunate that OCing it can seemingly limit the CPU core frequency.
fitztech
Most people do 65 Watt CPU now, the 14900 H/HX in all of these hardcore for gaming systems is the best.
Need a nerdy tweak system, for for these 14900 K CPU's, make it yourself at home ?
@@lucasrem what is bro doing?
17:12 "I just like to play around with it"
same here man
awesome results! makes me wonder how much better gpu performance you would get from this.
Optical measurement from keyence is super cool. I was sceptical of liquid metal because of high ambient temperature of 30-40C with humidity >90% in the sub-continent. Do you think laptops and handheld device with LM might leak or slip out even at rest? The sheet are quite easy to apply and not require frequent maintenance.
Please try to OC the igpu and ram like Skatterbench do too. I am highly interested in what coolingcould bring to the table for gfx oc. Maybe 3.2-3.3ghz?
Very intreasting Video It would be interesting to see just how far you can push the chip.
I think these are for small portable systems, say small pc for car motorhome coach or plane where space and power available may be limited.
Does this newer bios contain the fix for the 8700G?
If you reference the GN review, there's mismanaged microcode running in uefi/bios for the chip.
If not, would you be willing to revisit this?
Loved the video. It was worth it. It's a laptop product from AMD, so it's always interesting to see how it behaves unlimited on desktop.
That die had more curve than my Volvo's bonnet.
Nice work.....
Not likely much market i think your right about that, but damn cool and enjoyable to watch. I've never delidded a cpu, but if i ever do I know here to go!
I think I'd quite like to see direct die on one of these - MiniITX are interesting systems to play with that usually have no graphics performance to speak of. I'm actually building a fun Mini-ITX case that was probably going to be nothing more than a bit of fun and probably replace my Pi powered NAS/home-server. But now with these new higher performance graphics in the APU... Really opens up a world of fun options in that more embedded/compact space, while retaining most of the benefits of any normal PC over a laptop - so with really good cooling could be really interesting.
And as the CPU performance seems to have really improved from the most simple of thermal pipeline improvements and being on the same die the GPU probably has similar extra headroom (though I don't know how good the tools for overclocking an AMD IGPU are - not something I've ever look at).
It's an APU, thus the 8000. The APUs are what set the full cadence, although the AMx socketable "mid-gens" (relative to Ryzen desktop _CPUs)_ don't always release to retail market. The _CPUs_ only follow every other gen in that cadence. (Except 2000-series, because that was basically a refresh).
That moment when you realize you used to game on a 300Mhz PC.
Our first PC experience was the MSX Sakhr 3,58 MHz
Wait, dont you have to account for the tape when you were measuring height? You placed the IHS on the tape...
Fascinating stuff. This is literally how Sony/AMD engineers are able to extract maximum performance out of their PlayStation 5 silicon. Cold plate sits directly onto the "delidded" APU die with liquid metal in between to efficiently transfer heat.
love the channel. keep up the good work
really interesting stuff
Huge improvement/ might have to over clock and over drive power just to equal temp outputs / they have a peak temp range so if the bios says 75c to 95c even liquid cooled it might lose compute to warm up cores
huge gains!
17:41 The pads are still reusable when used with a Lidded CPU right? Or is it a one crush wonder?
Woul love to some gaming benchmark and see if the increase clock speed could bridge the L3 cache gap.
8:10....but can you overclock it with a #2 lead pencil like the old Athlon Xp cpus which were bare die from the factory?
Der8auer, Is this possible to delid a AM4 Cpu like a 5950x? Mine is curve optimized and has a beefy air tower cooler but still runs a little on the hot side. OR better yet, can you get your hands on a 5950x3d engineering sample for me? Lol I wish they actually went through with that SKU. My 4090 could make use of it for some 4k 144hz gaming goodness.
Always an adventure :)
8:02 It seems like the IHS is not contacting the die properly? How could you fix that? And yes please design a direct die mount for these CPUs, it would be amazing!
is it possible to overclock the igpu with these improved thermals?
would love to see a followup video on that!
Will be a lot of mini PC with this CPU ... Not for gamming only but for decent graphics demand ...
Derbauer, question, the 3D analyzer said x:y 1078 and 1011 and 1389 and 1231 (mils) question divide by 100 correct? Approximately 170 mm2 of die area. Question what is the square mm area of the 8700 die? mb
have question,this cpu is not offset like 7000 series?cos I had a moment of wtf installing my new 8700g like a 7000 wirh a noctua cooler. Instruction said offset for 7000 but the chip in thise new 8700g is dead centre?I'm rigth?
When will we be getting availability on the am5 heat spreaders? Been wanted to finish my PC for months...
That optical scanner is so cool. Could you scan gaming mice with it to create a public library of 3D scans for gamers to decide on their next mouse?
17:40 oh crap I’ve remounted mine twice already! Once when switching from a 5800x3d to a 7800x3d and a second time when switching hung from soft to hardline. My temps are still really good though!
He’s got a share in Thermal Grizzly, so might be the reason why he recommends replacing it after using it once 🫢
Being more generous about the liquid metal maintenance factor:
My personal experience showed inevitable efficiency degradation in six months to the level of efficiency closer to MX-4 thermal paste and a significant dip below that in the span of a year.
I suspect the pumping effect to be the cause, because the rate of degradation roughly corresponds to the temperature gradient you achieve.
This effect gets so dramatic with liquid metal because over a thermal cycle it's going through a phase transition to some extent: the chip and the heat exchanger heat up, the gap between them closes in, the compound gets more liquid and gets pished out.
Then, during the cooling phase, the gap between the chip and the heat exchanger opens back up, but the compound also cools down, becoms less runny, and the capillary effect can't get all of it back in.
This way, bit by bit, tiny fractions of your liquid metal escape and are replaced by the atmosphere air (wich is quite a good insulator).
To put it simply: the hotter your CPU/GPU runs under load - the sooner this thing will escape due to the heat cycles expanding and shrinking the gap it's applied to. As a consequence, the more this thing degrades (and the hotter the load cycles get) - the faster it's degradation rate gets.
Sure it's good when served fresh, but I personally would never return to that three months wonder. Especially factoring in it's cost and dubiousity of application, that gets amplified 10fold when you have to do the cleanup process from the previous batch.
And test done with only an AIO, so in a custom loop there will be more headroom?
ok i've watched this and have a question. The measurements show a gap of apx. .0268 (mm) or so, but you have put kapton tape under the lid feet. How thick is the kapton tape you are using, and what is that added to the Gap measurements?
wow my 5800x on water at 4.8ghz just get obliterated in r23 btw ty for helping me purchase the wireview, love this little thing
I got a bit confused by this. Did you put the liquid metal under the cpu cap or on top of it? (or both)? Or was it something under the cap and liquid metal on top of it? thx (sorry, I don't want to watch it again!!!). great vid though.
Looks like it was between the CPU core and the IHS to replace the paste. Also, you know you don't have to replay it from the start, right? Just hover along the timeline and click.
I was changing thermal paste of my intel macbook. I was rubbing the die with a tissue to clean old thermal paste.
I applied relatively high force and tissue didnt slide on the die but it stuck on die corner.
Computer is working normally currently..
But I wonder if I damaged the corner a little bit would it work? Is there any possbility?
Stupid question, by the time you build a machine with this thing would it not be cheaper to buy a last years model G14 Zephyrus with a 3080? The only use I see where this APU or any APU makes sense is in a NAS for Plex transcoding, and even then would it really be any better than a 14600k with intel quick sync?
It doesn’t affect me, but good on you for making sure there was a seizure warning due to the strobing light 👍
So hopeful to see this product released for the Intel platform!!!