Its The Beginning of 2024 and The Rumors are REALY BAD for The Cycling Industry
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- čas přidán 1. 02. 2024
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This is just what I have been hearing over the past month or so and seeing for myself...... I have more and more people reaching out to me notifying me that there LBS is shutting down and there bike manufacturer liquidates there inventory and jsut moves on. things are getting tight every where in the world so we wil keep a close eye on this
Specialized just dropped 40% off on majority MTB's...that means SOMETHING is going on.
Pon Holdings, a Dutch Conglomerate with sales exceeding 10 Billion Euros last year, owns MANY Bike Brands. Their bike division, Pon Bike, owns; Santa Cruz, Cannondale, Cervélo, Focus, GT, Gazelle, Mikes Bikes, and maybe more? Santa Cruz and some of their other bike brands are in some SERIOUS Trouble. Pin Bike did over 2.5 Billion in sales last year I think. Your comments regarding Santa Cruz is accurate (to say the very least).
My guy, you have 100K subscribers. Your reach is insane. At least get the grammar close. *Their. You missed it three times.
I hear that. I personally just built a major certain American brand Ali express knockoff bike frame set and rims . Fortunately all went well . I got a 6 kg build . Frame and wheels cost 1400$ Australia and got a second hand dura ace 11 speed di2 for 700$ au . Safe to say it cost around 2500$ with the “ genuine “ similar build of a original costing around 12000$ au. I cannot believe a top end bianchi oltre DA is 22,549 here in au . It is just ludicrous! Something has to give!
I really appreciate your CZcams channel. Obviously, I wish you all the best of success in these difficult, albeit _cyclical_ times.
Those aren't discounts. It's like $55,000 pick-up trucks being listed MSRP $85,000, then discounting them to $65,000.
Lots are stocked to the fullest with overpriced trucks. It sounds like that same thing is happening to bikes.
Yep. Pricing a marginal quality fabbed product the moon and then “offering a 20% discount” of that nutty price is only a deal to a fool or one who would have happily taken part in the Tulipmania craze of the past.
@@ivanboesky1520marginal quality fabbed product? You obviously havent ridden a modern mountain bike.
That's the oldest marketing trick in the book. Before something goes on sale, raise the price, then, give the customer a discount. He'll be paying the original price.
You are the target audience for the overpriced bike companies. Companies love the npc that buy into the bs.
@@tat2zz68 LOL. My last car purchase was in 1998. And the only bike I have is a Fuji Team road bicycle purchased for $700 and has over 15k miles on it.
Good luck on that.
Rather than wasting money on depreciating vehicles I paid off a mortgage in 12 years on a house that doubled in value.
Bicycles should never cost as much as a motorcycle.
Bicycle tires shouldn't cost as much as motorcycle tires! Im talking to you Rene Herse 😂
That’s not true, because what if a brand is selling a cheap motorcycle for the masses that is sold across 5 continents? Because of the sheer scale, it’s ofc gonna be cheaper than a boutique hand crafted bike…
Exactly!
Heck, many of these scam bike companies are charging prices for bikes that you could buy a low miles high quality used car for in addition to a new motorbike.
FYI, my Kawasaki Ninja 650, a darn nice street bike, cost less than half the price out the door brand new than what some of these clownish bicycle makers want for a non powered, stock, cookie cutter Far East fabbed bicycle. The recreational bicycle industry is literally a party joke at this point. 😀
There is a CZcams video somewhere actually trying to justify why a bike costs as much as motorcycle and it's absolute BS for sure.
@MotoAtheist I want to say its a GCN video trying to justify their partnership with Wiggle lol
I'm not being safe with my money. I simply refuse to buy a bike that costs FOUR THOUSAND DOLLARS MORE THAN MY FIVE YEAR OLD SUBARU. I built--from craigslist and ebay--a supersix evo with carbon wheels at 16 pounds for less than three grand. Twenty minutes of internet research and a little patience kept me from dropping five figures on a BIKE. I'm sorry to sound like a Karen, but.... MSRP is nuts, and so are the bike manufacturers charging it. The economy isn't that bad everywhere--it's the idiots charging and spending that kind of money.
You just aren't the people being marketed to. For 4.6k I built a bike that was worth 12k. You wouldn't have spent that either though. Your issue with the industry is that it isn't worth it to you. Simple as that.
@@diehardbikesYeah, I'm not getting marketed to. I'm way too familiar with this industry. It's the tubby dentists, architects and cancer survivors that are the ones at the sharp end of the marketing spear. Much like the Harley Davidson weekend warriors. In my day, I believe they were called poseurs.
You don't have to buy a complete bike. Framesets are bargans right now. Additionally... you have NO idea, the COGS (cost of goods sold) for the industry. Between the marketing budgets, lawsuits (patent lawsuits are not cheap). We are also in an era where we are in the bleeding edge of UCI legality for aerodynamics. So the money it costs to find these tiny marginal gains is astronomical, versus addressing low hanging fruit. Understanding we are going to be ignoring economies of scale... Quote out a new bike. Design your own bike. Quote out a designer, mold manufacturer, carbon layer, patent attorneys etc. Don't market it, don't do anything like that. Just make a single bike.... You'd be able to buy Subaru Inc. being sarcastic of course... but it's expensive due to the fact it costs so much to make and so few people buy them.
@@HoldenDoesBikeStuff I'm almost certain PinkBike did start their own bike company, using open or existing molds. Everything you mention? That drivel is EXACTLY what the manufacturers want us to believe. Right after they pay some 10 year old Asian kid to stuff prepreg into a mold, they want thousands for it. Sorry, I'm not buying it. Sinyard didn't get to be a billionaire by being nice, he did it with lawyers and cheap Asian labor, and your equation doesn't mention greed. I'm sorry, I'll gladly pay for quality product, but I have as much sympathy for this industry as this industry has for the workers it lays off while opening corporate stores to undercut their dealers. I do have sympathy for the shop owners and employees. They do not deserve what is happening, but the corporations? Yeah, they had it coming.
@@diehardbikesand not worth it for anyone else according to the discounts.
The bike industry has dangled all their ultra-expensive 'high-tech' in front of us with their proprietary, non-interchangeable parts and constant upgrades to the point that I'm sick of it all together. The road bike I built up 10 years ago is an ancient relic with rim brakes, alu rims, and mechanical groupset I can hardly find parts for. I'm done. I have one bike for dry weather, one for rain since I live in Seattle, and a touring bike I'm selling. I'm not buying anything else. I'm going to ride what I have until there's nothing left of them. That's how I feel about it.
There are so many drive trains and drive train parts available online I don’t know what you’re having trouble finding but you should be able to buy anything you want for that old bike
@@Bikes0420 some sram force 10 speed parts are already hard to find. cassettes, chains, rear derailleurs, and brakes are easy. the other components are not. a whole groupset is impossible. as time goes on, it will get even harder. if it were shimano, it wouldn't be a problem
@@jazzcatjohn It's going to be worth it in the long run by investing in Shimano for it.
I think high end alloy wheelsets are going to become hard to find in the coming years.
THIS. MTB here but this is exactly why I'm sitting my £$£$. Sick an tired of incompatible parts and standards! bikes peaked at 10 speed, I could build a 4X bike with a mix of road an MTB parts to create my perfect drive drain, I could even cross brands. Now everything is propriotry an incompatible....
FK it.. I'll walk
Crazy discounts? Those aren't even discounts. That puts it to regular retail price. I expect another 15-30% on top of that
so mutch this
Spot on
buddy… i’ll give you a hint, normal margins on complete bikes are mayyybbbee 30%
Suppliers jacked prices on manufacturers during the pandemic, so these brands may take a hit (or break even if they're lucky) on these discounts, even though all we consumers see is prices back to pre-pandemic levels.
@@swunson At retail - Giant makes frames for hundreds of dollars not thousands.
I remember a time when complete top-of-the-line racing bikes went for $2k and entry-level bikes at shops started at $300. Prices are just insane nowadays. No reason whatsoever for anyone who's not a professional racer to have a $15k bike.
And in that era cars sold for $4-5k
@@schsch2390 Actually more like $10-12k.
You do you, and we'll do us.
I work for one of the brands mentioned. biggest thing I may or may not be able to confirm is there is still a shit ton of 2021/22/23 model year inventory sitting in warehouses across the country collecting dust. and they are all the cool bikes. hybrid / low $ bike sales are still very prevalent, and we still have the few ‘S-works’ level sales, but there are soooo many $4k-$8k builds with generation old groupsets on them… just sitting and waiting to be sold.
yea Im stuck with a couple 6-8k bikes with old force on them knowing i am going to loose money on them, which is whatever it is business, but the amount of low level hybrids and entry level mtb oput there is crazy.... I have heard 5 years worth of skus for those models
I just brought an addict RC 40 (105 di2) that was discounted 25%.
@@Kaosad69 doesn’t surprise me at all. that’s the market right now. BMC dropped some stunning sale prices today
Trek is trying to pawn off last year's model MTB's on their website for a whopping $750 off a $7800 bike. They'll be collecting dust in the warehouse for a while.
The market really need to go back to $500 bikes that works for 90% of the population.
My local bike shop is run by a stupid guy. He had a bike for 3200,-. I said I can get a similar bike for 2700,- online, but I will support my local bike shop and can give you 3000,- for the bike. He said no! Not understanding that I would be a loyal customer for years. So I just bought the bike online and also a lot of tools. Now I’m my own mechanic and haven’t been in that bike shop ever again and I’m not planning to either. This was five years ago.
My local bike shop didn't give me a bag for 100$ of accessories. Told me they had none turned away annoyed and that was the last time i visit the shop.
We are always matching prices to get some new customers. They often appreciate it buy a lot of accessories not mentioning that they will be making all their purchases and service their bikes at our shop. What that guy did it shortsighted and he is probably not aware what is going on right now.
My local shop that I've been going to for years got a new owner. Went in one day looking for a trunk bag and the guy told me to go home and do my homework cause he doesn't have time for me right now, he has customers in the store. Smh. I was pissed! Later that same year I went in to buy a new Mtb or have one built, wasn't sure which route I wanted to go. Well same owner told me to go home and do my homework. Smh. After that I said F this place and went somewhere else and ended up dropping a lot of money at a different shop for a new bike build, plus lots of other stuff.
@@buckroger6456wtf is wrong with that guy? Does he hate money?
@Bread_Garlichouse don't know. Guy acted like I slept with his sister or ran his dog over. Needless to say, I haven't gone back to that shop since. Worse part is I like the shop and everyone else who works there, plus it's right next to my house, nice being able to just walk over and get parts or service done.
middle class is not going to spend 5k on a bike. the sweet spot was 2k. I got my trek domane before the pandemic for 2k full carbon.
I ride for exercise, not competition. I want a heavy bike. My legs are in great shape pushing a 45 lb. bike. I wouldn't get that as much on a very light, carbon fiber bike.
@@thelakeman5207 me too man. I have 2 bikes both for 2k euro - Kona 12kg and Surly 15kg and I won't give ever more than that.
I'm doing a road bike build for $500.
Paid $250 for a new, off-brand aluminium frame (hydroformed) that's light and exceptionally welded.
$250 more for quality components and I've got a great bike (built specifically for my needs) that will last for a very long time. 😁👍
If they had resisted the pure greed of jacking up the prices, they wouldnt have the supply issues now. A $3000 high end bike rose to cost $10000 now, so even when you put it on sale for $6000 it still doesnt feel right.
What bike for $3k a few years ago is now $10k?
@@ZachTheExcitedViper Maybe 20 years ago. I think that you could find a bike that was 3.5k 10 years ago for 5k in 2021, now probably 4.4k.
for sure, its a completely different world/not carbon 20 years ago. Your assessment is more accurate. @@Brongo1111
Just a decade ago you could easily by a custom fabbed alloy bike with an Ultegra groupset and a sub 1500 gram pair of clincher wheels for $3-3.5K. Carl Strong was a perfect example. Then bike manufacturers realized they could switch materials to CF, provide little meaningful performance imorovements, outsource that cookie cutter CF manufacturing to China and charge a nosebleed price for it. The current pricing of bikes is simply nuts. The manufacturing quality has nosedived, yet the asking prices have sky rocketed for products that have little to no serious fab or QC in place.
What? You don't think a high end bike is worth the same as my used Harley? Why not?
Housing Groceries and the Cost of Living high a lot of People are in Survival mode . Cycling and other Hobbies is on the back Burner
Read the comments, most are complaining about not finding 3 K to 8 K bikes... many have already 3 to 6 bikes!
Cheap bikes are not selling, it's the higher end that are in demand.
@@DR_1_1I think it's those buyers of the lower to mid range bikes is who the comment was refering to.
The people in the market at the high end aren't usually those who are really impacted by shifts in general cost of living expenses.
Yes, all industries are having to cut back, reduce staff etc not just cycling, but especially cycling as it's considered a hobby for a significant portion of people.
On the other hand ebike sales continue to soar due to those increased delivery jobs and return to office read: commuting that entered the mix.
No longer just a hobby, bicycling is also needed for survival, and not $10k downhill bikes. $1300 400lb carrying capacity commuters that don't get outdated in 2 years are what the masses want.
When I walk into any of three local stores, they are full of MTB's and ebikes, but only ever 1 or 2 roadbikes, if that. Daily I have been getting emails about sales for years now, I don't even bother reading them because the bikes are way too expensive still. Can't see myself ever buying a new bike again. Honestly, I"m happy with the six bikes I already have.
I'm in the process of building a road bike.
It took a lot of searching, but I found a quality, off-brand aluminium frame & forks (hydroformed) with extremely high quality welds for $250.
Another $250 for some quality components and I'm done. Apart from assembly of course.
$500 for a new bike, built to my specifications that will hopefully last me a long time.
After shopping around and finding the cheapest name brand bike that even came close to what I wanted was $2,500 helped my decision to do what I'm doing.
Wow almost as if the industry artificially increasing prices has made people not buy bikes?! Who would have known?😂
Me...I refused to buy a bike at those prices and just bought my friends old bike for $1k.
F the bike companies and their prices.
Since most of the "name brand" manufacturers now have their factories in China... My guess is the Chinese will just buy out the names as these companies go bankrupt and start selling them at reasonable prices again.
I own a shop in Ontario... I am seeing the same things.... thank you for the video mate. Just know, you are not alone.... I hope you finish off the season strongly.
same here brother thats why I make these videos, for us industry folk to give us some hope and to know to hold on strong
Where abouts in Ont?
Prices are absolutely insane, especially for any bicycle models that aren't high volume. I am building up a TT bike and even finding a frame available to purchase took months! I ended up finding a new-in-box S-Works Shiv TT Disc, and at $6,000 the price is eyewatering but still the best deal around. Look wanted $7,800 for their TT frame, plus a 2 month wait. Scott wanted $8,200 for a frame, paid in full up front, plus an undefined wait period between 4 months and "sometime in 2025" AND with the added bonus of only selling me the frame if I would accept it with no factory warranty. Bruh, what is even happening right now?
I disagree - top specs bikes prices are similar to 10 years ago and bikes with electronic shifting are at the lowest price point ever.
Rim brakes at the bottom end of the market have gone… but no one buys them anyway.
Cry me a river.
You do not NEED any of that super high end stuff.
You choose to buy it.
Some people are struggling to pay the rent 😂
Would just buy a three year old P5D at cheaper than what you paid. It'd be faster too
@@dominicbritt 10 years ago the top S-Works TT bike was only $7,500. Just a frame and two wheels has me at $10,000 already, so be sure to add on the price of bottom bracket, power meter, cranks, cassette, chain, derailleur, chainring, brakes, rotors and lock rings, blip shifters, tires, saddle, pedals, brackets for holding computers and lights and bottles, plus any spare parts. It's fully double the price of the same bike from 10 years ago.
@@roddas26 None of us need any bikes at all, but here we are. If I want to be competitive, I do need to have the proper equipment. My road bike with clip-on extensions is significantly slower than a proper TT bike. Another comment mentioned buying a used bike instead, but every used bike I found would require replacing the cranks, chainring, and cassette at a bare minimum to get the setup I need, and many required replacing the cockpit or wheels too since they didn't come with a disc wheel or had relatively cheap wheels included with the bike. The cost difference from building new vs buying used ends up being within a couple thousand dollars. While not insignificant, if I'm going to be into it over $10,000 either way, may as well keep the headache to a minimum and just do it right the first time.
I used to buy bikes regularly, partly because I liked the latest models and partly because I was still trying to find the bike(s) I wanted to keep around. With the prices of bikes and everything going up, I stopped buying bikes and have found the three that I'm going to keep. Normally, I'd still browse around to see what's out there but since everything is basically the same and they're all expensive, I've been happy with the ones I have and don't even care to upgrade anymore. Just like real estate has forced people out of the market, bikes have done that for me. I'm sticking with my Speedvagen Rugged Road, Cervelo Aspero 5, and Giant TCR-they range from mechanical/rim brakes to electronic/hydro disc, 1x to 2x, and gravel to all-road, so it covers everything I need.
The prices got so ridiculous people started to back off, and the flood after covid, which they used to drive up the prices even higher, couldn't be moved. People are realizing that all the hype for these very expensive bikes and parts is just that, hype, and a complete waste of money for anyone not a top racer, unless you have that money to waste, in that case more power to you. Oh, and all carbon in the bike industry is Chinese carbon, I guess the real factor is quality control.
Time, Look, and Allied carbon frames/bikes are made in France and the USA. Time and Allied are very high quality, heard mixed bag on Look.
I agree that prices are such a joke that it may be a deterrent to people buying bikes at ALL price points. Which means other sports or hobbies will get preference over cycling.
I've been hearing Chinese carbon fiber is very brittle. Anyone else hear this?
@thelakeman5207 That's just internet trolling. It's not the carbon, but how the process of the layup is done. The frame, the wheel, or any other component. Most of the bikes are made from raw Chinese carbon, and then they do their layout. Even bikes not made in Taiwan or China. Quality control is key..
Thanks for the update. I don't understand why the brands and stores aren't going all in on Social media like you and also focused kids. Getting a family with 2-3 kids into cycling is likely to produce at least 1 customer for life, if not 2. I'm off to a bike shop to upgrade our cargo bike, and my neighbour just bought a brand new mountain bike for his 7-year-old. Two bikes don't make a trend, but I have 3 mountain bikes and 1 road bike already. I'm not going to buy another bike unless my kids outgrow theirs, which they do every year when they are under 8!
Who else is secretly laughing at these brands now . They had there Covid boom, the “aero “ boom there marginal gains boom . Now we have all said enough is enough. I would never pay 23,000 AU , yes 23 grand , not a typo . For a pina,bianchi,colnago(25g) which is around 16$ grand US for a bike . I’m a total Ali express convert now .
not secretly laughing, but laugh up in the open.. waiting for the price to crash even further and new bike day possibly end of the year :D
@@twowheelsandcroissantmight be a crash when the ying-ying handlebars snap whilst riding
I feel like the biggest problem is that most bike shops have traditionally survived on low to mid range product. Most low end customers buy at slower rates(7-15 years). Most of them were forced into purchases at the same time during covid so they could leave the house. It will probably be at least 3-ish years before that business comes back. I'm doing my part! I bought a new bike in September, and a new cassette & crankset last week!
Us bike shops appreciate you.
You don't " need to do your part"....you buy when you need something and it's worth the price...f these greedy bike shops
@@sanynava it's not a need, I had a working bike, but I wanted a new bike, so I bought one! It's a car payment for a couple years, but both my cars are paid off. Then I decided that I wanted shorter cranks & a larger cassette for a big (for me) ride coming up. I don't spend money I don't have. I'm not caving to peer pressure. I rode my bike more miles than my car last year and these purchases made me happy.
@@sanynava*f these greedy manufacturers.. prices aren't decided by the retailer. No one goes into bicycle retail for the money
I think the used market has completely gutted the 2-4k price point.
Long term UK Road cyclist - I bought my last new road bike 2018 (Pre Covid) and was thinking of a new bike. I tend to get new bike every 5 yrs. However I refuse to pay these current inflated prices (I have the savings so could afford it), to put into context. My last purchased road bike (2018) was mid tier, SRAM Force, sub 7Kg bike. An equivalent new bike I am looking at least a 100% price increase since 2018 for similar specified bike. I refuse to pay these kind of costs, as well as the fact the main brands are locking you in to proprietary integrated cockpits. So I will be either looking at buying a reputable and good reviewed Chinese frame and building up my own bike, or buying a good used bike. The main brands have priced themselves out of the market!
I appreciate the video. I’m sorry for the pain there is a but. There is a certain amount of karma involved here. I recommended a bike shop to friends of mine they spent $10,000 on 2 e- bikes during the pandemic. Salesman basically laughed at me when I asked for any price break wouldn’t even throw in a water bottle. That was my last recommendation to that shop but that was the norm. Bike shops and suppliers got entirely too full of themselves oh so quickly. Paying thousands More for less quality bikes. $5000 and getting 105 Shimano, seriously?
Totally agree. My local bike shop is run by a former pro, but are stupid as shit. I asked for a discount because I said I can get this bike for 500 less online. He said no. I asked for a discount on other stuff I need then. He said no. So I walked out, bought the bike online and also bought all the tools I needed to repair that bike myself. That was six years ago. I haven’t been back to that local bike shop since.
yea I here it, i am not saying it is not warranted, some stores did worse then others, all we can do is be smart and work through this
06:00 maybe the prices are just coming down to the actual value. 11500 down to 7200 and they can still go down another 2 to 3 grand.
Exactly my thoughts on that “discount”. Extremely overvalued for what it is.
Marketing guys are killing cycling industry and culture. Yeah right. Not discount, we should say back to normal :)
Exactly. I just bought a new in the box Mondraker F-Podium that was nearly 10 grand last year, for $4700.
I think 35-50% discounts might be possible in late '24. That's where fair value is for me and I may buy again.
I just finished new build for around 2k. New Velo Orange gravel steel frame and fork. Growtac brakes, Sector wheels 1500 g and Panaracer tires. Coming in at a respectable 21 lbs.
sounds like a nice build
Ok here it is.
We are sick of motorcycle prices for bicycles!
An entry level road bike shouldn’t EVER cost $5000
“cheap” bikes are $1000+?!
What these brands need to do is start making a line directed at regular folks 500-3000.
Aluminum frames, rim brakes! They would sell like crazy
Rim brakes has nothing to do with that you can get a cheap set of disk now. Rim brakes are unpredictable and terrible no one is going to mountain bike with Maybe only road riders that do flat only
The bike industry only has itself to blame, jacked up prices too high. People are now saying no I'm not going to spend $12000 on a road bike, I'm seeing bikes for $8000 with Shimano 105 groupset. Nothing wrong with 105 but that used to be the standard on a $2000 bike not $8000. People are just fed up being ripped off. The bike industry has been enjoying the good times and now it's in a period of reset.
I remember when bikes with Shimano 600 (eventually renamed Ultegra) went for about $800.
Great insight. In Europe the situation is very similar. At least we have spring weather and some early sales. Hang on! Unfortunately 2024 will be the end of the road for some shops and producers.
yea I Agree witht his so much this is our season right now and everyone is holding onto money
I’ve got a 2018 aeroad and a 2019 evo rim braked bikes. I’m not planning on buying another bike for a long long time if at all again. I’m 55 I’ve been running during the winter which I may do more of that from now on instead. It’s cheaper and less expensive and less time consuming.
I’m a bike whore. I buy something for my bikes every day. I haven’t stepped foot in a local bike shop since corona. I bought all the tools and learned to build/service bikes myself. Working on my bikes is my favorite hobby. There are so many bike products available online that are not available at bike shops. And the service at bike shops went to shit during corona.
The funny part is that it's extremely affordable now ,to build (or rebuild) vintage frames from the 90s or earlier, ot building up new rim-brake bikes from a steel frame. You can get quality (taiwan made) framesets for 700 bucks or even less still, and all the components are really really cheap, as long as you refrain from 11/12 gear groupsets.
But almost all big brands completely got rid of this kind of bicycle, although it's the most suitable kind of bicycle for most customers who need a bicycle to commute, go grocery shopping, etc.
Once you want to future proof your bike and go with hydraulic brakes prices will skyrocket, even with Chinese groupsets.
@@michaeltsui3435 There is nothing especially future proof about disc brakes at all, because of the proliferation of "standards". There isn't even a proper standard on the exact position of the break disc along the axle, yet. Rim-brakes don't really need any standards even (except for the screws of course), because they are inherently very adjustable, you can just mix and match parts based on approximate measurements with a ruler. And don't forget the axle length mess for hubs, with rim-brakes that doesn't matter, you can just add spacers and you're fine. With disc-brakes you are f'cked if you no longer get an exactly fitting hub. A lot of vintage rim-brake frames are used with widened drop-outs now, and that only works with rim-brakes. If they had used disc-brakes back then, the frames would be trash or would require a rework by a framebuilder.
There are still many manufacturers of great rim-brakes with no end in aight, and the parts don't brake. And new rim-brakes can easily be manufactured by a capable small workshop. Also, with cartridge brake pads, all you need is a mold for the rubber to create pad replacements.
I believe it's become a sport too expensive for people to enter/take up and consequently people are turning to other sports which only cost the equivalent of a high-end pair of running shoes, way cheaper than starting off in cycling.
The bike industry has killed off its golden goose. The price mark-up the industry is applying is literally a case of the greed killing off the market need
Yes! 15 years ago everyone was getting into road and MTB. Then another jogging 🏃 wave came. People thought it would only last for a couple of years, but it’s still going strong. I work for a large company and none under 45 is taking about picking up road or MTB, they are all running and/or lifting. Paying 3000 ++ to try out a new hobby is way too expensive for someone not working as a dentist or lawyer.
My local LBC charged me $72 to replace a broken spoke. They over charged their loyal customers because they’re not selling bikes.
that is insane, thats crazy price, but you know i have reps that come by the store that sell brands and they are telling us we should all raise rates for labor.... which I do not think so
@@GCPerformance18 it’s going to bite their asses back if they don’t stop.
Im having a wheel built using my own rim and hub. Labor spokes and nipples is only $105. $72 is insane. My local bike shop is pricy but not like that.
Day of reckoning. Inflated prices for bikes that aren’t worth it. It’s a bicycle… there is no reason they should cost thousands.
Hi first off PG you will survive because your Dad taught you very well secondly there is little to no sympathy for the Greed of the Cycle industry thirdly its the Chinese manufacturers who will grow and thrive in the coming downturn ,thank you once again for a honest no BS video on the cycle industry in 2024.
Love your channel and appreciate all the hard work you do for us the community. If I had the 💰 and lived near your shop I would definitely purchase from your store. At this rate all I can afford is tires, tubes, and gels. Keep up the good work and promoting the value conscious Asian brands like Lun and Winspace. I look forward to getting some Hypers this spring
means the world to me for those kind words!!! I appreciate the whole community around my channel it is alot of fun that I get to communicate with other like minded people like me out t here
I’m still riding my 1987 Eddy Merckx SLX so…save your money!
And here I was thinking about upgrading from my 07' Trek 3700 for RAGBRAI reasons (this year being my third). I bought it new as a teen, so I haven't cared about the cycle industry until now. I was looking at the 2k range, with zero tech knowledge on bikes...but it seems like a 2k bike won't be any better than what I got, except the upgrade to disc brakes, which are seen even on Walmart bikes.
I am just going to put more money into modding my bike with better stuff.....don't fix what ain't broke, but I can make it better.
If for me, they can all go down, including canyon.
I’m slowly piecing a custom build together, just hoping the Crux frameset goes on sale and I’ll grab one immediately
As a small business owner, and an avid bicyclist, this is a great video. Thanks for the insight to your industry.
Thank you for watching and enjoying!! I like to share and make us feel like we are not alone because there are some days I feel like its eveyrthing I am doing is wrogn but in reality it is just the market and no demand, so i Just sit and wait and make smart moves right now. but it is nice to let people know they are not alone
Thank you for the insight. This information is hard to get when you dont have insider info. Subscribed! Hopefully you will give more similar info in the future!
Thank you for the kind words I am happy you enjoyed
just bought a diverge… looked everywhere for for gravel bike with 1x, hydraulic brakes & tubeless wheels. also wanted some mount points and tire clearance close to 50c. surprised how many bikes out there don't meet the first 3. even for diverge, the bottom selections don't start with tubeless ready wheels
Jamis Renegade
Thanks for the update amigo
Basically, at this point Trek and Specialized need to have bikes comparable to YT or Canyon at a similar price point. I'll take my chances on direct-to-consumer customer service if it means I save a couple thousand dollars or more.
I had a LBS who carries big name brand bikes say they have a sale going on. All the sale was them changing their prices to the companies lowered prices on the website. I’m like they’ve been that all year and didn’t sell. This isn’t a sale if you’re just updating to the companies lowered online prices.
When the manufacturer sells sale bikes to a store, they don't get their usual margin. They make a lot less.
@@garybird8646 This is Iowa. It was a Trek store. Gen 3 and Gen 4 really haven’t moved all year. I stop in frequently so I know what they’re moving. Very slow for us right now but bikes aren’t moving here. Couple hundred bucks off won’t convince anyone here to buy a new bike.
@@thomashines8 it's a massive challenge globally. The covid demand boom swallowed up future sales. We then went into a cost of living crisis, this has been felt here in Europe more acutely with many countries not self sufficient in energy requirements.
I agree it’s a correction, mkt swung to far for the good now it has to correct. Stay lean, don’t spend. Dont raise prices on services and repairs to make up for sales, the consumers are savvy to those tactics and you risk their loyalty. Great video!
I just bought a new mountain bike. There are good deals to be found, but it’s not universal. If you’re patient, willing to watch the online retailers AND (importantly) talk with your LBS’s, you can find great deals, provided you’re flexible. Some of the big online dealers are even willing to be flexible on stuff if you call them…especially if it’s older inventory. Have prices bottomed out? Maybe not. But I kinda had an acute need for a new ride.
Everyone talking about overstocks, nobody talking about the fact that bike geomoetry peaked in '20/21 and can't be improved any further. I intend to keep my new 2020 model for 5-10 years.
Interesting what happens when supply and demand move from one extreme to another in a fairly short period. As a consumer, I did not buy during the covid times when shops and manufacturers were gouging customers and it seems I may get an opportunity to n+1 a '24 model this fall/winter at a really nice price.
I bought my Cervelo P3 6 years ago with rim brakes. I’ve upgraded over the years to a deeper rim set and new seat. I’ve also put on a double water cage behind the seat and have the torpedo water bottle. All in I’ve spent about 5k. I was thinking about upgrading to the QR VPR or the Trek Speed Concept; both about 12-13k. A friend let me ride his Speed Concept over the weekend. Guess what? Same average MPH and watts.
Good Podcast Grant. Over here we just got offered Argon18 on 3 bike buy in. It’s still a hard no, but interesting change of the balance of power. It’s a buyers market throughout the supply chain.
yea we are in the same boat, we are debating on bringing on a strong line for a pretty cheap value but in al honesty, we are trying to figure out is this a solution to lack of demand or is there just no demand at all and we just get stuck with more inventory sitting
Maybe it wasn’t obvious to everyone but I saw the writing on the wall. Of course the bike boom bubble was going to pop. I worked for a SRAM distributor & bike shop during the pandemic, and lead times for some products were 3 years. So everyone had to make orders 1-3 years out in a panic. I knew it wasn’t sustainable for long. We reinvested more into things like helmets, shoes, apparel, accessories, and kids bikes, hoping to gain some traction with the new riders. The dust was starting to settle by late 21’ - early 22’ but everyone was still sitting on orders (that most) had paid in full that hadn’t been received yet. That’s potentially a lot of money that’s tied up in non-existent stock. So now 3 years later a bunch of businesses are left with things no one wants to buy at the moment and therefore compounding any other decisions they made in the last year and a half. The bike industry isn’t going to vanish over but a lot of business won’t be able to take such a loss on sales margins (and that’s not even factoring inflation).
You should comment on non-Specialized networks of Specialized bikes and whether more bike stores should connect to share inventory. My city (Columbus Ohio) has 2 or 3 stores that carry specialized. One of them is getting connected with the Incycle network where Specialized bikes are listed from a network of mostly California stores. Seems like this network of California stores is still way overstocked on last years models and has more varied inventory of old bikes than Specialized themselves are listing. The discounts look the same as what Specialized are promoting, but the selections like size and color are broader
I just bought an S-Works Epic carbon frame from them on ebay. Its a 2017 but brand new and warranteed. $900.
Im in Columbus too. Seen you on Strava I believe😅
In the bike industry, it is always wise not to buy newest products. The bike price is so high that people have to doubt whether they need a bike, especially an expensive road bike. I just bought a cross-country bike 6 years ago, change some settings for dayly usages. If I want some exercise, go just to ride it for sometime. Because of high resistance, I don't ride fast, so I don't need a helmet and stuff. The cost is not that much.
Thanks for the info. Very informative!
Where are the best deals for group sets? For example dura ace 9100 mechanical
just google right now but scroll down a couple links and theyb have some crazy deals
The one thing that bothered me was how my local bike shop started to carry one or two brands instead of the 8 previously.
So you had to choose between Cannondale or Specialized.
I think that was the begining of the end.
we haved always been a 2 brand store really because specialzied has always been asking of this much more but now more and more stores I amseeing them diversify
Sales were good for a few years and now many of those bikes are up for sale on the usedmarket place. Some great deals. Around here, entry level road bikes just a few years old (eg Specialized Allez or Trek 1.5 or similar) are posted at around $350 with sellers probably taking $250. Peleton recently announced poor financial results. Same reason. Market flooded with used Peleton bikes.
Fair enough reply. I literally built out a slightly sub 20k bike because I saw you review it. Use that skillset you have to pivot in a different way if you can. Those bikes, and every tour bike, aren’t easy to find or afford but people do it-alot. Guys like me that are older and been racing since the early 90s dreamed of one day getting our best of the best forever bikes and now we are at a place where we can get it but there’s almost no bikes to get. Or you have to wait 6-7 months. You know this already I’m sure. The bubble is going to pop in the industry and that’s a certainty. But the high end stuff will always be sought after and if you can find a way to be the go to guy to get all that then you might be able to change your piece of the industry.
It’s gotta be trek owing giant and shimano
My guess also. Cant be good for Shimano either. I'd of thought they owe sram too
Love the videos bro. Would love to meet you in person!!!!😍
Other than the Trek corporate store, the bike shops in my area are just a hobby gig for the owners. One is a retired emergency room physician in his 70s and another does commercial real estate as his main job. The last one is open 6pm-10pm weekdays after the owner comes from his other job.
Exactly! in my city most bike shop owners don't care about earning their life, they are just doing what they like, one had his own team in competitions, yet the shop is empty most of the time and his mechanic is not even nice. Maybe owners are also paying less taxes this way, with all these spendings.
In fact it's even worse, many small business (other than bike shops) are really laundering money, mafia style, "pizza connection", or corruption money from poorer countries!
You mentioned the store in RVA that temporarily folded! Props for hearing about that!
Thanks so much I try to stay in the loop and read how the industry is doing daily
In Asia, only great deal I seen so far is Kona bike selling their entry level mtbs for 50% discounts. Most other brands don’t have much sale, maybe it is because market for road bikes are much better
Haha, I ride for exercise not to win races. My 50 year old, 38 pound Schwinn Continental rides like a dream ($125). My 40 year old, 18 pound TREK 400 is a good ride too ($100). My 90's Raleigh Hybrid Mountain bike isn't bad either (bought new for $325 and still going strong). The current bike prices are crazy. I'll never be their customer.
If you look hard enough, and maybe really not that hard, you can find some deals on used Treks, Giants, Cannondales, etc. A lot of, let's say less than savvy bike buyers, don't know what they have or didn't size correctly, or don't ride enough to meet their New Years resolution goals. I picked up a Domane SL5 and a Giant Advanced Defy, nicely equipped and in great shape for no more than $1500 US. These bikes are only a few years old, but new they are about $3200 to $3600 depending on brand. Used or new old stock components are out there also for potential upgrades - at a discount. For my riding - about 100 miles a week, I'm content with these bikes with maybe some component upgrades (not DI2) and maybe some decent wheels. I'm still coming in way under retail and in all cases, better components.
I'll NEVER buy a $12,000 to $14,000 bike again! My last high-dollar bike was my current Cervelo S5 Dura Ace model. I love the S5 but I wanted a lighter, more comfortable all-arounder for those days I didn't feel like hammering and getting hammered by our rough Southern California roads. I looked at everything and decided I wasn't going to shell out $12,000 plus for another bike, I was just disgusted by where prices were and decided to hold off. I then saw a few guys on a group ride one day from Orange County on a few Canyon bikes. One guy had the Ultimate CFR, and a few had the Aeroad CFR's and CF SLX's. I went home that day and started to take a hard look at what Canyon was doing. I ended up buying the 2023 Ultimate CF SLX 9 Di2 and got it on sale for $6,499 with free shipping. Here's the deal, this bike puts my 2021 S-Works Tarmac SL7 to SHAME. I can't speak to the new SL8, but this bike ROCKS. It came with a full Dura Ace groupset, R9200P Power Meter, adjustable cockpit (no cutting of a steerer tube), DT Swiss ARC 1100 Dicut wheels with 180 hubs and ceramic bearing and the Selle Italia SLR Boost Kit Carbonio Superflow saddle. It is light, extremely comfortable, its FAST and the fit is spot on. The only thing I've done is go to wider tires and set it up tubeless. I'm not anti-LBS, but I am a NEW FAN BOY of the "direct to consumer" model after my experience buying from Canyon.
I can confirm this is too true... I work at a brand new bike shop (1yr) in a major metropolitan city and some days now, I swear 2+ hours can pass by with nobody walking in. Not to mention the majority of bikes we sell are at cost or heavily discounted (20%+) Since fall we haven't been making profit on almost any bikes... But somehow the only key metric is total sales, so considering the volume we sold our store should stay afloat. Idk how that makes any sense tho. Perks of being a corporate owned shop I guess.
Do you think we forgot how to court the general public into cycling?
Most of the media I’m being fed by the algorithm is about high end bicycles that cost as much as a good used car, and people riding on terrain that will send many folk to the hospital (either climbing or descending) mixed with a reality of how frail the cyclist is when in the wild within a natural environment of vehicles driving at 40 mph (US).
I think about running, which is not as exciting as cycling but it’s inherently safer and cheaper.
Maybe part of the work is to go back to the good old days of cycling advocacy while offering folks interested in the sport guidance and community beyond the Lycra Tuesday evening fast group.
I feel that gravel had (and possibly still has) a chance at addressing these issues as long as we offer alternatives to Unbound (how many people out there have the time to train for a 200 mile event, even a road running marathon feels mild in comparison).
Maybe we need to create spaces (novice riding groups?) where someone who drops between 2-5k on a bike can feel they made a sound investment instead of feeling they have a sort of expensive kitchen mixer hiding in the garage.
Agree 100% especially with the last one. One might think you would feel ashamed coming to a group ride fully equipped on a 3000€ bike, when actually you just fit in. I would spent every penny again because I experienced so many great moments on that bike and it rides so damn well while being super comfy. So bikes have changed for the better, but there needs to be good steel or Alu bikes for entry lvl that still offer things like tubeless or electronic shifting. If we are honest production wise the electronic shifting costs pennies. R&D is a different story, but I can’t see why a 1500€ bike couldn’t have axs etap. Btw. I just built a custom steel bike with eagle axs for under 1500€ and I didn’t even source the cheapest stuff. So it is possible to have very very good entry level bikes.
In my part of the world there are group rides exactly like that. One has people on s-works riding right next to people on wal mart bikes.
@@DasRightfortyforfo Where are you, just out of curiosity?
It would be nice to start groups for people who want to ride for fitness while trying to foster a sense of community and support, without so much competitiveness.
@@pablopereyra6328 i am in San Diego. Here there are weekly group rides that are split up by level as well as a monthly ride that is really "ride whatever you have"
Good luck 🎉🎉🎉
The bicycle companies screwed the customers, now they are being screwed back.
I appreciate you shedding light on the industry. Regardless of the point in time we are currently in, it's interesting overall.
thanks os much for watching, yea I try to be as real as possible
Trying to rebuild a bike right now and it's bananas, everything is inflated, headsets, BBs, WHEELS are insanely expensive these days, Tires are 100 Canadian a pop :( it's really sad.
yea it is fugged up right now
I just bought a FOX Factory 38 EMTB 2023 Boost Fork from Jenson for $499.00. Got the last one. There is still a 2022 model EMTB model left for $449.99
I agree with a lot of these comments regarding the sales of bikes…
That stumpjumper you highlighted that is around $8k now, but was $11k …. Well, NO STUMPJUMPER RIGHTFULLY SHOULD BE $11k! That’s an absolutely absurd price and even the sale price is super high
yea and plus all the frames are all sworks carbon so why is there sucha big price jump the comp carbon is the same carbon as the sworks
Sorry but bicycle prices are just insane. I had my fair share of Cervelos, Madones, and TCRs. However with prices approaching that of a motorcycle who in their right mind would want to pay almost $10k for a bicycle?
The problem is the value proposition just isn't there. I live in FL and while you're not my local bike shop, I could make it over to the other coast in around 3 hours. I bought my Trek bike 5 or so years ago for around $800. For me to upgrade, I'm looking at roughly 3x that number nowadays. It's not worth it. I'm not going to put in 100+ miles a week every week. Everyone bought during COVID and the prices went sky-high. They came down somewhat but bikes are still too expensive. The number of people who want a 5k or 10k bike is very, very limited and those folks aren't likely to buy every couple of years.
Can I afford a $2.5k bike? Sure. Not really a problem. Do I want to? No, that kind of expenditure isn't just a casual hobby anymore. That's an investment.
I'm so tired of seeing these "rumors" videos about how there's a glut of product and full warehouses of inventory. Yet prices have never been so high. Sales are a joke. You have companies like Spesh, Zipp, and Enve who have led the way in ridiculous price points and they still aren't discounting much and yet no one is buying. Specialized is the Apple of the bike industry and they are killing it.
you have no idea the price cuts that are happening I know it still seems outrageously high but some bikes they are cutting from 14,000 to 10000 that is massive disocunts and huge loss for retailers, but it is still expensive and if you look at those spring sales they had last year they were doing crazy deals on seats helemts and wheels
These are not going to be easy times for a lot of people, but it's good that this correction is happening. After all, we vote with our wallets and such massive price increases were unsustainable. I'm a little surprised, though, that the management of a lot of companies didn't count on a post-pandemic downturn and made absurdly large orders. Sure, everyone is a general after a battle, but that's what management is for, to be able to manage the company and the risks.
Yes Covid was a black swan event. Basing your business on a pandemic lasting forever is pure stupidity.
Most people don't have bottomless pockets of disposable income, bikes have got so expensive now they're making their investment last longer before replacing
Local Giant dealer by me is now advertising itself as an Enve frame/bike dealer and I've never seen one in stock, lol. They just order it for you.
lmao thats so weird but more people are looking for more outlets and driving in demand with more options
I had a good deal buying a MTB last week, old stock 2023 bike for a great deal. Thought of building up a MTB diy project but with these kind of prices went for a new 2023 model.
So a GHOST fs ls advance for 3000 euro, 2weeks later it is in the same store even less for 2799euro..
Prices where crazy and now the overheated business goes down, all the sold bikes used for 100km (so new) last few years becaus everybody bought bikes and never used them also on the 2e hand market for people to purchase. So I think coming year will also be hard for the industry.
At the bike shop I work at in Southern California we sell Giant bikes. Giant is sitting on a lot of bikes right now and will be blowing out stuff soon I believe, because I am seeing more and more of the 2024 bikes starting to hit the dealer website
Troubling times, deserve desperate measures!
Giant can't pay their bills. It's really crazy because they build frames for most companies
When things go bad suppliers don't get paid, and the unpaid debts go back through the supply chain all the way to raw material providers. The financial programme of a bike brand is based on forecasts of anticipated demand and selling at full list price. Production is ordered many months in advance and is then difficult to adjust - because contracts have been signed and the supplier actually making the product is commited by having employed staff and ordered materials. Any interupution to demand will necessitate price drops in order to maintain cash flow, as cash flow is the life blood of any business. Discounts remove the margin that covers operationg costs, and therefore bills don't get paid. Some suppliers will (if they can afford it) extend additional credit to a brand in the hope of the situation improving. The end comes when a supplier calls in the debt and forces bankruptcy. Having worked for a bike brand when it went bankrupt, I've seen this first hand. Having administrators come in to the office and take over, telling staff who is staying and what they must do, is not at all nice.
I have the money sitting, ready to spend on a good mid level bike, 105 or ultegra road bike and I simply refuse to pay the prices these bikes are listed for, it's ridiculous.
come on over to my shop I will cut you a deal lol
I just ordered sassy short travel 29 that likes to be ridden dirty, the market will correct and may the best bike win.🏆
I could drop $1800 on a carbon XC HT or I could drop $6600 on the same type of bike from a big name brand, or I could drop $2500 on an ali frame XC HT, from experience the $2500 bike would see my riding days out, just replace the running gear as required.
I think a big part of the issue is companies have been playing a game of how much can we charge and get away with it and now it’s come back to bite them, I’ve watched this in a couple of other industries too.
Let say I bought a new bike every 2nd year since I got into mtb, I would have bought 10 bikes - what am I going to do with 10 bikes ? I can I only ride 1 at a time, so in that time I’ve put 9 bikes into the 2nd hand market, play the game and times that by 10,000 people doing the same thing = 90,000 bikes on the 2nd hand market over 20 years.
I just got my first second hand bike. From 2019, almost new (3500km), carbon wheels, Di2, tubeless (I'm worried about that !). At probably less than 1/4th of the price I would pay for a new bike with the same features.
There appeared to be a time when we upgraded our bikes because the benefits of doing so were so significant. Mere refinements on a new bike, when we've already up-graded the wheels, tyres etc on the older bikes is an un-necessary and much bigger expense. Tough to do when your money has already gone on the older machine.
I have bought a 2023 BMC Teammachine SLR01 TWO at a 40% discount. BMC is going through hardship right now. It's my favorite brand because they have 61cm frames that just fit me perfectly. Without the discount I would have never considered buying that bike. Thus, I feel now with the discounts the bikes are priced more reasonably. It's actually a great time to buy. Because I am working/living in two different countries I might actually consider buying another BMC Teammachine. That one is reduced by 50%. Everyone wins...
that is insane on the teammachine but yes I think they are selling stock off because the new teammachine r, so shops are just unloading
The Teammachine R seems to be a great bike but if you enjoy climbing the Teammachine, SLR01 is still the way to go so it’s a no-brainer for me. If they ever discount the Teammachine R by 40 to 50% I would jump on it of course. I don’t foresee that happening anytime soon though. The Teammachine SLR01 with great components is an amazing bike. Especially at that price point! Best bike I’ve ever owned. At the end of the day Supply and demand will regulate the markets, and that’s a good thing
i'm happy with my Winspace T1550 that i boought after Christmas for $905 shipped with bars included. I'll never pay ridiculous prices for a bike again.
Same , I’m happy as , with my ( terk) knock off temonda . You can work it out😂 for 900$ Aussie it came with seat tube, bottom bracket,bar/ stem combo in any size I wanted , head set,thru axels,rear hanger, fork spacers and all rubber and plastic bungs. Also some nice 60 mm dura ace sticker clad carbon wheels for 400au $850 US many miles later and both still perfectly performing, and I’m quite heavy. I picked up a dura ace 11 speed di2 second hand in really good condition for 750$ . Couldn’t be happier. All up with tyres ,seat, bar tape , few titanium bits from Ali express. Whole build coast around 2500$ with speedplay pedals. Around 16-18 hundred US . And it weighs 6 kg on the nose 13.2 pounds. It’s an absolute weapon . I’ll never go through a “brand” bike company while they rip us off . I payed 4500$ 2900 Us genuine cervelo s3 ultegra di2 in 2014 which I thought was a lot but fair ( ish) now the same thing albeit “ lighter faster aero “ and 2023 build is sitting around 10,000 .
Wtf that's such a good price! The frame is 1700atm
I ordered a 2023 MyO Orbea Occam a month ago from my LBS. Orbea says it will ship by April 15. Have you heard any sketchy rumors about Orbea? Crazy I have to wait 3 months.
Build it and they will come. 🙏🏻
Manufacturers are trying to move stock but I still can't find a Roval one piece handlebar here in Australia 😒
There's one in Adelaide FB marketplace. Think it was 100mm
Durianrider wouldn't be happy you going for such handlebar
I want to find how get discount on bike stuff like bike shop employees do but as looking to spend so much building bikes up
In 2020 i bought a BMC slr01 disc with full ultegra, all integrated, for €3300 euro. Im from Ireland. The same bike in 2024 is €7500. Thats just crazy and realistically can't continue.
I'm currently looking at a new 2022 model trek mtb - full retail is 3300 GBP now discounted to 1900 GBP. Top spec e-MTBs still way too expensive [4000+ GBP] - nuts.
Love ur videos, I live in ny but hoping to come down to u. What’s the store name and address?
thanks so much!!! the store name is bicycle generation in Deerfield beach Florida
we may see one of the big brands go under or be acquired before this is all done