Shelby Drop Explained
Vložit
- čas přidán 24. 07. 2024
- Arning Drop what is it's function
Shelby Drop What does it do
Manic Mechanic
Episode 112
It all started with an Independent rear suspension that Ford toyed with putting into the new Mustang for 1965. Since there were no Mustangs available yet tests were run on a race prepped SCCA 1964 Falcon by the lads at Shelby American. Th reason Ford was looking at the IRS was the Corvette (the Mustangs major competition in racing) had been running an IRS since ‘63. In order to make the Mustang IRS work, Klaus Arning, the Ford suspension engineer charged with developing the IRS, found that the upper control arm needed to be relocated lower to take advantage of the IRS’s handling characteristics. Ford dropped the IRS idea when the bean counters saw what the cost would be. But Shelby, who had done the testing, kept the Drop as a low cost way to make his cars handle better than the more pedestrian Mustangs. That’s right, the Arning Drop was a by-product of another design.
It is dead simple and effective. Lower the upper control arm 1 inch and bring it rearward 1/8 inch on pre 1967 Falcons and Mustangs and you have a better handling pony. This novel idea did four things:
• it lowered the vehicles center of gravity
• it reduced body roll by nearly 10%
• it greatly improved the camber curve of the vehicle
• it added caster to the mix via the 1/8 inch rearward offset.
With later Mustangs, Falcons and Fairlanes, you will only drop the arm the 1 inch. By 1967 Ford had moved the arm 1/8 inch rearward for better caster.
What does Reducing The Camber Curve mean? It simply keeps more tire on the road in a corner. The greater the tread contact with the road, the better you will go around a corner.
jford@autorestomod.com
/ gasolinemedia - Auta a dopravní prostředky
I know, I know I forgot to say Cougar...sucks too cause I really like Cougars.
No worries Jeff, just goes to show you are human too
That helped me visualize what happens when you change the geometry more than anything else has! Thanks, Jeff!
Glad I could help!
You do a great job of explaining this. There are still so many people out there dissing the Shelby drop because they don’t want to lower the car, thinking that’s what it’s all about.
Thanks. Shelby would have just cut coils if that was all he needed. Lol
You might find my comment a little interesting.
Nice props. I am more of a show than a tell so that was greatly appreciated
Glad you liked it.
I added one more modification to this unique suspension modification. First, I glued the paper template on a piece of flat steel. Than I had some one with a mill drill the original holes, and the relocation holes he drilled 1/4" holes. This allowed me to get started holes for the relocation holes. Than I just slowly stepped up the holes. I relocated the holes like a Shelby Mustang. But,what I also did was make a left and right specific upper arm. When I installed new upper control arm bushings, I shifted the shaft rearward about an 1/8th of an inch still allowing for grease. This modification did several things. It improved caster and camber. It reduced the amount of shims needed for aignment.The upper control arm is almost hard mounted to the frame. It allowed me to put a 1968 Mustang big block coil spring which I cut 1/3rd of a coil out. And I had to grind a little to get the original mounting nuts to sit flat. The results, the car sits level, no nose drop, handles unbelievable, and allows for a bigger front tire. I also have a one inch front sway bar. All bushings on the sway bar and front strut to frame are polyuethane from Mustang Plus, along with a Monte Carlo and Tower Cross Brace. I put a half leaf on the back leaf spring. And I put a 11/16th rear sway bar by Stam Bar from California Mustang, with adjustable female Heim joints. And the last thing I did was, sitting in the car at the alignment shop while the car is adjusted with me in the car. I used to build AC Cobras. And our company built a original jigged frame Cobra that hold the track lap record for AC Cobras at Road Atlanta before they put the Chicane curve before the bridge.
That sounds about perfect!
GREAT job Jeff! Best description of "the drop" I have seen. Not too "techie" and easy for the average dude to understand. Bravo!
Wow, thanks!
Great video Jeff! It’s so cool to be able to do a low-buck mod that really makes a significant difference in how the car handles and feels!
Yep. It works pretty well along with the roller spring perches.
Great illustration!
Got mine done on 69 Mustang, along with coil over shocks. Thanks for the info!
You are welcome!
Love this! Explanation greatness.
Thanks!
Good information, thanks for posting....
You are welcome
I did the drop on my 67 fastback. It did noticeably lower the front. I have a Video of the car here on youtube if anyone is interested in seeing what the final result looks like. I left the old holes open to show that I did the drop and for when my son inherits the car he wont double drop it. I took it to a franchise alignment shop, told the alignment guy to use my shelby drop specs...It was funny - he couldnt get past the computer screen showing him red/out of spec while the number readout matched the shelby drop specs.
Happens a lot on the new machines...
Sorry I'm late, I was just watching Ellie's Garage per your recommendation...
Glad you are!
Great info! Thanks
Glad it was helpful!
I learned about this, literally, the day after i cut my springs to drop an inch. For sure on the list if i have springs made.
Sorry, I got here as soon as I could.
I lowered the upper A-arms 1 inch on my 70 Mustang back in 1979. I don't know where I got the recommendation, probably a Boss 302 tuning guide that was published way back then. Al Gore hadn't invented the internet yet so this stuff wasn't readily available. I remember my Dad had me prove the layout geometry three ways before we drilled the holes. Working on cars with Dad was educational, what they call STEM today.
Been there!
Jeff, love the demo of the tire movement! And you mentioned your just 'Farting' around the shop?? I bet that's a ongoing issue 🤣😂😎
Keeps the kids out. LOL
Thank you Jeff
You are welcome!
Thanks for the video. Wanting to do this for my 68 cougar.
Go for it!
It's a great mod, but an important thing to note is that after the A-arms have been relocated, the stock alignment specs no longer apply. Here's what works for me on cars that have had the drop performed:
+2.5 to +3.5 degrees caster.
(More adds stability and lessens the tendency of the front end to "hunt" on grooved or worn pavement. Less makes the steering more responsive, and decreases steering effort, which can be important on manual steering cars.)
-.5 to 0 degrees camber. Increasing negative camber another -.5 to 1 full degree will improve cornering grip, but at the expense of increased tire wear. Avoid positive camber, no matter what "the book" says.
1/16" to 1/8” toe in.
Opentracker Racing as some good alignment specs on their site too. Your specs are pretty much in line with those. I didn't want to muddy the waters by getting into alignment yet. That will be when we get the Ranchero suspension and steering done.
The mounting holes for the upper control arms are known areas for stress cracks (ie: Ep 12 Manic Mechanic). Would you recommend reinforcing that area? Maybe leaving in a thicker template, using all 4 mounting holes or even welded the template in?
If anything, make sure that the there are no stress cracks. If not I'd throw a set of bolts with washers into the old holes and call it done.
One thing Jeff - do you do anything with the old holes? I wasn't sure when I did the drop last year so I got some stubby grade-8 bolts and plugged the holes. With all I have read about flex in the shock towers I didn't want to take any chances.
Thanks!
Honestly, I don't know. I do the same thing. Lol
You should link the old episode with Vinny. I will do the standard drop on my Torino but the trick with the ball joints for that little extra is neat to know.
Good point, I will make card and Playlist it.
Question, I have my entire front suspension off , did Shelby drop , didn’t pay attention to the shims . How many shims do I start with when I reassemble it ?
It works for a equal A arm suspension. But will it work for a unequal A arm suspension such as a 2nd gen Camaro?
So it’s just a matter of drilling new holes to drop it down and back?? I have the 64 Merc comet. No plating or any other mod??
I'd get the plates from Opentracker Racing.
got a question. the prevous owner did thisnto my 66 stang. but i noticed that the tires kick out and is causing uneven wear. even after front end alignment. should i install a negative camber kit?
You might want to try to find an alignment shop that still does shim work like those cars used on the upper control arm. Some shops don't want to adjust camber on those because they don't want to deal with the shims.
No one is debating the best bond claim! Came here for some fights 🤣 I agree tho haha. Marnie was good too 🍻 you're aching my leg!!
Lol. Was waiting for a Daniel Craig argument...he is my next pick.
Thanks going to do this to my 69 Mustang while I have the engine out.
Awesome. We are going to hit this again when we do the drop. New info has come to my attention (well, it isn't "new" just new to me).
And people say "You can't outrun a radio". Exhibit A. If they didn't get your plates these guys are safe.
Thanks for sharing very interesting. I have a 70 mustang I will do the drop should I go the 1/8" to the back as well?
Boss Man, the video said just move the bolt holes straight down 1”, do not move the holes back. Ford apparently corrected that issue so it’s not necessary.
Nope. The drop is different. Just do a 3/8 shim on the front a arm bolt.
I know on the template it looks like you’re moving the control arm back but when the template is mounted in the car it’s at an angle so the new holes are straight down. Right?
Yes.
hello my friend! I have a Maverick anda 1972 mustang, can I do this in the two cars?
I’m curious how the 1 inch Shelby drop would compare to say running 600 pound front coils which also lower the car as they’re shorter.
The Arning drop/Shelby drop is more about "almost" fixing camber angle changes which affect driveablility. Arning was, with moving the cintrol arm trying to keep the tire flatter to the road. A drop coil with a high spring rate won't really do much more than shake lose your fillings.
Can you do it in a 68 mustang coupe? Or should I ask is it worth it ?
AFTER the Shelby Drop, I found two turns {out} of the outer control arm brought the {toe in} back into correct adjustment !
With the mustang and the cougar bout the same it should work on the cougars. I’d hope it would, I have a 67 XR7
Yeah, my favorite Mercury and I just missed it in the speech. LOL
You mentioned that it works for pre ‘67 Mustang. Won’t it work for all first generation Mustangs? ‘65-‘73?
Also, have you had any experience with the upper control arms that have a 1” drop built in? Are they just as good?
We address the later cars in the video. I haven't used the drop spindle.
Works on all '65 -'70 Mustangs for sure, although the relocation template is different '67-up from '66-down. Shock towers changed on '71-'73s, so I don't think at works on those, at least not as simply as just drilling new holes. Anyhow, drop spindles are only for lowering. They don't correct the camber issue.
Does this work 1967 hardtop fairlane ?
Will this work on a 1967 Cougar?
How to get the camber correction on the Fairlane: It's about the angles, right? If you can't lower the inner end, raise the outer end... with a tall-shaft ball joint like they use on the dirt track cars. Try it for yourself, it has the same effect. Hope that helps.
Thanks for the input we appreciate it!
I have a 1965 Comet convertible Caliente. will it work on this car?
Yes.
On do you have to shim the shelby drop
That is a function of the camber. You will have to shim it like a regular Comet. OR you can install the camber kit from Open Tracker Racing. Note that it requires welding.
Maverick use 65-66 or later 67 mod???
I'd contact Opentracker Racing and ask them for a definitive. Gut says '67 on up.
Will it work on 67 coupe?
For sure!
Ok can the 63 comet have the shelby drop?
Yes. We did it on our 1965 Ranchero.
Would this be ok for a non racing 1968 mustang ?
I have read that it is beneficial for all 1st gen Mustangs and Cougars. I modified my '69 last year and it is strictly a street machine.
Yup.
Absolutely. The handling improvement is immediately noticeable in street driving. Plus, if you enjoy going around corners in a somewhat "spirited" manner, it'll reduce front tire wear.
I love you Jeff. How is Cameron !?
I love you too! Cam is doing awesome.
And Cougar 😂
Dang! Missed it by that much!
Will it work on a 2 door Ford Maverick?
Yep. Or a four door.
Regarding lowering the car using the Shelby/Arning drop, it's obvious the word "drop" is confusing people. That said, the geometry says the front of the car has to be lowered "some." The reason is that the upper control arm for this purpose is basically a see saw. The spring is going to push down from its upper mount by a dimension 'X' determined by spring rate v weight of the car...period. No way to get around that, so for static purposes it's a fixed point. Given that, if you lower the attachment point of the UCA it MUST raise the opposite end...lowering the car. The spring saddle is closer to the outbound end of the UCA, though, so it's not a 1:1 effect...your see saw is longer on one side than the other. Why do people report different outcomes? My guess is it's because it's hard to accurately measure fractions of an inch difference in ride height, a certain amount of stiction in various parts, and maybe people don't realize you don't get true ride height just by dropping a car off the jack.
Well said
If you need a donor car to do a "how too video" on how todo a Shelby drop... Your welcome to use my 65 Mustang. I'm located in upstate SC.
Thanks for the offer, we'll be doing it on the '65 Ranchero though. YOu are welcome to stop by on any given Saturday. email me and I'll give an address. jford@autorestomod.com
Just because you can not drill new holes on a 65 Fairlane or a Galaxie, should not mean that all is lost, you can get offset upper a arm pivot shafts, but I doubt that you can get 1" offset. On the mustang you lower the upper a arm towards the lower control arm, what about raising the lower control arm, towards the upper a arm, by drilling new holes 1" higher in the front cross member, the only ill effect I can forsee is that you possible raise the car a little, but if you can drill new holes to move the control arm, you can cut half a coil to lower the car.
It is the camber effect from the upper arm that does it. I'm not going against what Klaus Arning did.
@@AutoRestoMod I do not want you to, I trust in his work as well. When you decrease the distance between the upper and lower control arm, the upper control arm points slightly down (assuming the lover control arm is level, and that was my only caveat, to make sure you did not raise the car, by moving the lover control arm instead of the upper) and when the suspension compresses, it gains camber as the upper arm points further and further down (which is good) Whether you move the upper arm down, or the lover arm up, the resulting geometry change is the same, the only difference is where the car attaches to the resulting suspension. I do not own a mustang anymore, but I wish that I did (I had a 67 289) the next Ford I will own is a 65 Galaxie, and I will get back to you with a judgment of the feasible of my theory (don't hold your breath, it will not be for some time) In the meantime you can do the change with the help of some more (arts and crafts)
What about the last of the shock tower cars the Granada
Unsure if it will help those cars.
@@AutoRestoMod are you unsure because it’s a undesirable car or because you don’t know if the drop will work on those cars
Can you do it to a 1974 Mustang II?
Nope. Already fixed on that car.
@@AutoRestoMod It is already done to those models right? factory done
The real question here is. What we dont get out off this video is. The acual process of shimming and checking and reshimming. So is this trial-an-error?
I didn't notice ride change on my 67 Mustang but I did notice better handling with a Shelby drop
That is what it is all about for sure.
I did this last year on my 67 fairlane. I rebuilt the front end at the same time. I think the springs I used are a little softer...my biggest complaint is bumpsteer and I didn't get a chance to work it out before I parked it for the winter.
Bumpsteer is a big deal.
You might have bad ball joints imho.
What are the specs up front?
@@I_like_turtles_67 everything is brand new and lined up . Front end has been dropped considerably with the drop and new springs...I suspect it is the angle of the tie rods that is causing the issue.
@@kgooch69 get bumpsteer tie rods,put them on my 67 cougar I used all the washers got wheels aliment 90%of bumpsteer is gone
@@dogsense3773 I'm pretty sure that is the direction I'm going. Who's kit did you use if you don't mind me asking ?
....... and 67 -70 Cougar
LOL I put in a pin at the top of the comments. I forgot my favorite Merc...