Why Harley Davidson's and Moto Guzzi Could Save You Money
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- čas přidán 26. 07. 2024
- Welcome back to Tuesday at Dobbs'!
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Please do leave a comment and share your thoughts. If you've got a story, insight or pictures to share, you can also email hi@tuesdayatdobbs.com
Instagram: instagram.com/@tuesday_at_dobbs
My other CZcams channel: @FreddieDobbs
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Time Stamp:
0:00: Intro
1:08: How Much Does it Cost to Keep Normal Bikes on the Road? (Honda VFR800, Yamaha MT-01 starter motor for £750, Triumph Tiger 900s at £1200, Ducati Desmo Services at £1,500, Moto Guzzi V7, a 400,000 mile Harley Davidson Sportster, BMW R100RS and a BMW R1200RT)
13:10: Rock Solid British Engineering (The Triumph Legend)
18:17: Harley Davidson Doing What They Do Best (Harley Davidson Hydra Glide)
20:29: Bike of the Week: The Husqvarna Norden 901 - Auta a dopravní prostředky
I f***ing love my V7 850. Every ride to and from work is a joy - rain or shine
Ditto!
Strangely... same here! 😂😂😂
I found that if I rode to work, when I got there that was the last place I wanted to be as I’d much rather be on my bike!
It’s quite simple, motorcycles communicate with you, so long as you religiously check your fuel consumption (indicator of the efficiency of the engine) and it remains the same and it sounds ok, all she is asking for in good oil twice as often as the manufacturer says AND make sure it is changed at 600 miles from new!! 50 years of riding and always done my own servicing backs up my words. Never done a tappet service yet.
My bike’s a 98 Guzzi California - a few months after I got it I did the valves - purely out of curiosity - an hours work and still within tolerance. Also , with an old guzzi you can hear when they need doing ! 😂
I have the same bike with fuel injection. Great machine. And I live in california!
Moto Guzzis make so much sense. A famous and desirable motorcycle badge with a famous racing history. Characterful, stylish, unique, easy to maintain and unlikely to lose you money over time….what’s not to love if you like your motorcycling? As one ages, one realises that mega-bhp, speed, wheelies and the like are not that important. Flash passes, class always hangs around.
i got 320 thousand miles out of my 600 fazer till the gearbox give up,never change clutch,still on same engine no oil burning had it for 12 years,still went fast
Phenomenal!
Brilliant. Despatch rider?
no i just rode it alot@@user-sw2lv3zp6o
I had an 08 Harley Superglide and only ever spent on fluids and brake pads PLUS I sold it 4 years later for what I paid for it . Can't knock that !
That is incredible!
That’s not a feat of the harley, at all. Buy used, maintain and sell it, you will never lose money unless the market drops, not happend in the past few years where everything exploded. But market waves go up and down. Effectively you made a loss, as the high inflationary impact of recent years, even the ones before monetary inflation, but higher demand than usual should have brought you 20-40% higher resale, even on the highly afloat used market of harleys.
@GiancarloBenzina That's a fair point but a 20-40% higher resale value 4 years later is never going to happen in the real world . I was just joyous I didn't get spanked on the resale value !
I have a Moto Guzzi 1400 California and it is simple to maintain and built like tractor in the first place. A very fun tractor, ok.
I think one of the reasons the Valve clearance checks are so expensive on certain bikes and cheap on others are that the Guzzi's for example have the transverse engine and the valvecovers are VERY easy to access. The Japanese R4 sportsbikes are the exakt opposite. I'm currently working on cleaning and rebuilding the carburettors on my 1996 Suzuki DR800s, and I had to remove almost everything external on the bike, like fairings, tank, seat, side covers, batterytray, ECU and airbox to remove the carbs to clean them. I guess it's the same issue with the valve checks on many sportbikes.
I find these repair costs you are quoting absolutely incredible. I have had my 1988 BMW K75 since 2008. Zero depreciation costs. I do all my own maintenance. Had no big bills. When the starter motor played up a few years ago, I simply replaced the brushes, and no more trouble. I have not adjusted the valves (I did check the clearances once). When the fuel injection ECU (brain) played up in extreme heat (about 45 degrees in Spain) I replaced it with a second hand one from Ebay.
Yesterday evening and this morning I have been booking hotels for my trip to Merzouga, Morocco next month. All my friends will be on modern expensive bikes (group of 7). I have no desire to change my 36 year old adventure bike. (Combined age of bike and rider is 105 years).
Have a great time in India.
I've had four vfr,s. Not one needed shims. Amazing engine and build quality. Honda only made money on them by the quantity they sold, not the servicing costs. Now have a Pan European...another amazing engine.
Very interesting, thanks for sharing this Nick
All dealers incl Honda are cashing on servicing, been quoted for a 16k valve service on my Trans Alp appx £850, thats taking the Pxxx, either I do it myself or not bother if I keep it that long.
It's screw and lock nut. Do it yourself. No shims needed, no cams out. @@davidsandilands1285
I wouldn't waste money on a valve clearance check. If the bike is running well leave it alone.
My 800cc twin BMW is overdue a valve clearance check. Everyone (not just on forums but mechanic's as well) say the mileage quoted for the clearance is none sense. Double that mileage is fine and even then the shims will be still be OK.
Very interesting
Everyone apart from the manufacturer.
Buggered if I would bother getting it done.
Owning an old 2002 vstrom 1000 with over 140000 klm on I've had only three times valve clearance my mechanic says it doesn't need it.
True, but I have two 800cc twins, an R and an F.
The F may go to 48k before needing adjustment, but the R needs to be done every 4000 due to early motors suffering valve seat recession. It's no hardship, the R only takes one hour, the F two days!
Freddy, I have 2 victory motorbikes, 1 Vegas, and 1 Cossroads. I don't think I will ever own any other make again, not even the Indian. These engines were built to last and are so easy to maintain.
Old Royal Enfield 500s have hydraulic valves! As for the Gutzzi, my next bike will be a V85TT, in no small part because it's easy to maintain.
... this is the reason why I ride HD...an agriculture simple machines... service cost £50!
Good choice. Great bikes.
I don’t know how you could be so calm to do this podcast only a few hours before flying to India !
Quite a few people have commented about leaving valve clearance checks if the bike is running okay. Gradual changes in performance however may be imperceptible over a long period of time. If the clearances get bigger you should be able to hear that your top end is noisier (a tapping sound), you don’t need to be a mechanic to notice this, I’m not. Admittedly if the clearances tighten it’s not so easy to hear, although people say your engine will feel “harsh”. Simplicity is one of the reasons I prefer twin cylinder motorcycles and you read a comment about Harleys and Guzzis which is equally applicable to boxer engines, certainly the air cooled and air/oil cooled BMW’s 🇬🇧
Freddie, this episode filled so many boxes for me! Great job!
THANKS FOR A TRULY GREAT AND VALUABLE EPOSODE DOBBS!!😊
Big respect to you, lets hope the weather is kinder on the next adventure....i will be watching 👍👍
Home-servicing is a way forward for many people with one note of caution: you need basic competence. If colleges still do night classes in bike or car mechanics this is a great starting point. Otherwise it's easy to damage your bike through inexperience (stripping threads, rounding off heads, scratching gasket surfaces, breaking snap-fit parts, inaccurate timing, alignment or tension, poor electrical connections, the list is endless). You need patience, perseverance and accurate measurement. Once you've got the basics (and the appropriate tools) you can follow CZcams videos, forum advice or workshop manuals to get most jobs done. As a young man I trained as a truck mechanic: I didn't enjoy it much at the time, but the skills I acquired have been useful ever since.
Comment of the day. Learn how to look after your bike and do it properly. Much better than scouring the internet for people to tell you that you don’t need to bother with stuff.
@@jasonk7072 That's all very well if you are competent at that sort of thing but some people aren't, so a garage is the only option. As Freddie mentioned with the guy who bought a bike for £1800. It would be pointless spending £1200 on valve clearances when the bike is only worth that amount and the fact that many people have said that they have never had problems with valve clearances. It's all about risk analysis, which is something they should have taken in the pandemic.
Great riding on this one Norali. You took some good lines around water.
You have achieved amazing things in Africa.
Well done!
James & Janice
Huskvarna also made Gas Varna domestic gas heaters...I used to service them back in the 70's
Love my Norden, agree with the 5 stars…great to hear you discussing it, hope to see you take one for a spin sometime in the future! Safe travels to India
Safe journey Freddie and Monika, looking forward to seeing your next update in India, keep safe.
I have an 87 Sportster and a 22 Moto Guzzi V7 stone. Couldn't agree more re maintenence. If the MG had hydraulic lifters and proper clocks it would be perfect for me.
I have a Moto Guzzi V85tt , ( that you reviewed some time ago ) I agree ☝️ with other Guzzi owners, maintenance is relatively simple, I’ve change engine oil and filter , transmission oil and shaft oil , haven’t done Valve adjustment yet as bike is still under warranty and will be due soon .
Oliver's story of the Legend was one of the best ever told on the podcast. It's amazing how much nostalgia tugs on us, I've ridden and loved so many different bikes, but the thump of a big v-twin is still the closest thing to my heart. I can still smell the salty, lush air of coastal Carolina backroads and feel the chill of passing through a creek basin on a warm day-all from the pillion seat of my dad's Yamaha V Star. I've tried the big bikes and found I didn't care for the weight, preferring the smaller, lighter machines instead. The Meteor 350 was the first bike in a while that felt special; it is a dream to handle while running errands and carried me on a 1000mi trip with poise (well and the occasional downshift on a big hill). The Daytona 675 I had for a short period was fantastically sharp, it still tops any sportbike I've ever ridden. Even still, seeing a big, gleaming v twin cruiser and hearing it lope by on a curvy two lane road...it fills me with a joy that other bikes can't touch.
Glad you got your father's bike. I got the riding bug from my Dad. He stopped riding at 82 but he still rode 7K miles that year. Your videos are getting better. Best of luck with your channel. Bryan
Valves, if your bike is in warranty you have to do what you have to do to keep it in warranty. After that, know what you have. Hydraulic valves will probably never need anything unless the bike is abused. Shimed valves and taper valves might need to get adjusted. The trick is that they make a tapping noise when they fall out of spec. It sounds the same as a small exhaust leak so check that first but if you suddenly notice a slight tapping sound from the engine. Adjust your valves. Other than a feeler gauge there's no special tools needed. The hardest part of the job is all the stuff you have to remove to get to them. Also if you own Japanese and plan to work on it all spend a few bucks on a set JIS screwdrivers. Not expensive and will save you a ton of heartache. Buy the shop manual for your bike and watch some you tube before or even as a refresher for any job you are lacking confidence in. No one is going to be more concerned about the job being done right on your bike than you. Work safe, ride safe.
My mate here in Germany has just put his bike ( BMW GT 1600 ) in for a full service plus rear tyre...
Don't go giddy... 2300 euros.....
That's twice as much as the complete touring holiday we have planned in Slovenia.
PS have a great holiday.
That’s the biggest bill I’ve heard so far!😳
And thank you, Jason🇮🇳
Furkinell.. I paid £2500 for my '97 1100ev Cali two years back n it had just been fully serviced with brand new rubber in great condition n 33000 km on the clock.
I'll stick with my Guzzis 😊
Nice one Freddie I like the 901 too but have never ridden one....
Mate, thanks for the shout out. Congratulations. You managed to do something nobody has achieved in my well over 30 years of riding - you've convinced me that Harleys are worth a look. A mate rides a BMW with belt drive and he pronounces it king of all transmission systems - over both shaft and chain. And to think that maintenance is relatively easy and inexpensive, that makes them definitely worth considering.
Interesting that you're looking at the Husqvarna. I know you're a tall lad, so you'll probably get on with one. I test rode one last summer but although its seat height is not over the top, it is actually quite wide - supremely comfortable when you're on it, but I couldn't get my feet down without having to dangle off one side of it, so I wasn't comfortable on it. Shame, it's a bloody amazing bike.
What I did was try the KTM 890 Adventure, and that did the trick. Aesthetically, it's nowhere near as good looking as the Husky, but essentially, they're very nearly the same bike. I stuck two hard cases on it and took it touring all round Spain and Portugal. It's an absolute peach of a bike, and the polar opposite to the refined exercise in pleasantness that is the Guzzi V7. So, if you get the chance, yes, definitely, give the Husky a go and let us know what you think of it.
I think the conclusion to today's show has to be, learn some basic mechanical skills, and you'll both save yourself a shedload of cash, and also you'll get a lot more out of your bike. Back in the day the council in Manchester laid on free maintenance courses for mountain bikes at the Manchester Velodrome. It'd be worth seeing if any organisation provides basic mechanics' courses. It'd certainly make sense. Great video, this one. Keep them coming.
'Acme Clockwork Magnetos - mechanically timed sparks - just when you need them most!
Suitable for any no. cylinder engine, fit & forget . . . So, no 'Year 2000' worries for you, eh?'
"Sorry, you've got a new 2027 Guzzler RR six-pot & no spark? - We're on our way ma'am.' : )
That’s where the boxer engine was easier to service. Servicing an air head 2 valve boxer engine could be done in about 30 mins and was very, very easy with no special tools req.
Hydraulic valve lifters were invented in the 1930s, they became standard on American V8s, probably first on Cadillac in the 1950s.
Freddie I loved your take on servicing. Hydraulic valves are great. I had a Goldwing 1500 80,000 miles, servicing could be done by anyone. Oil and filter, and now again plugs.
And it's a shaft drive, so change the oil and its done
I was just changed £249 for a 1st service on my wife's Hornet 750. I don't think I spent much in 30yrs of Goldwing ownership
Yup! I've had some fancy machinery with all the electronic bells and whistles (and been disappointed). When you first roll them out of the showroom, it all seems great, but the reality is they cost an arm and a leg to keep maintained, and in 10 years time, they will only be fit for scrap - parts, if you can get them, will make it financially unviable to keep them on the road. My solution? I've got a Harley Low Rider and an Enfield 650 Interceptor (a Moto Guzzi V7 may be on the cards too). I can maintain them myself, parts are inexpensive and readily available, and they are an absolute pleasure/hoot to ride - I would take either of them anywhere. And, come the apocalypse, I could probably convert either of them to carb and simple electronic ignition (I draw the line at going back to contact breakers)
Hearing about the motto guzzi and cost of servicing reminds me of my old cx500 Honda, with shaft drive and cylinder heads that aren’t hidden under a fuel tank made servicing very easy. It strikes me that we have gone backwards in regards to servicing of motor cycles, or is this what the manufacturers want to get more money out of us!
God be with the days when we rode 2-stroke twins. Service every now and again in the back yard. No specialised tools. Biggest hassle was cleaning the baffles and oiling the chain. Enjoy your hols, Freddie. Love the channel
Every time I watch your intro I'm convinced that this time, you'll wipe out that flower pot!
😆
One of the biggest selling points for me on buying my 650 royal Enfield was the fact that I can do all of the maintenance myself and fix pretty much anything on the bike myself. Simplicity is extremely underrated. Could it be more powerful, yeah, and if I want it to be I can fit a big bore kit myself and almost 20 more HP out of it.
I just bought one myself, I’m building a scrambled out of it. Yes, very easy to maintain.
@@BlackdogADV that should be fun.
Smashing story from Oliver 👌💚
I have a year 2000 VFR800, I've never done the valve clearances. No issues with it so far.
Gold star for your perfect prononciation of Husqvarna. As a Swede it's amazing to see the evolution of the brand even though they're not affiliated with Husqvarna in Sweden anymore. The 901 Norden as well as the Svartpilen 401 are so cool bikes. I really recommend you trying them both out for your self. The 901 is imposing in a very nice way. Much like the Yamaha Super Tenere 1200.
You have hit the nail on the head Freddie, with the comment of the riders who tinker with their car or bike. A lot of vehicles now are virtually impossible to work on if you don't have the right equipment and I think with some cars won't even let you work on the car because it needs to be plugged in to the manufacturers system by a garage, otherwise it will leave the car in limp mode. There's a lot to be said for buying an older vehicle.
Hi Freddie. I have a Royal Enfield Classic 350. (One of the new ones.) Just did a 10,000 K service. Screw tappet adjustment (2 valves one tappet each) new oil filter, air filter, 2 litres of semi synthetic oil and a new spark plug. Cost $60 AU plus a couple of hours of my time checking fluids and tightening nut s and bolts. Hardest part was getting the tank off.
There’s a few parameters:
- how much do you ride a year? That determines if service and consumeables have a relevant effect or not.
- are you bad in negotiating a very good bike to a much lower price?
- are you any good in selling a bike in maintenance need to a shiny perfect bike price?
- do you take real care about your bike, end2end maintenance, dry storage, weather and road conditions, …?
Before you calculate cost for service, tires, etc. these do make a much much bigger difference.
The technicalities otherwise are simple:
- chose a brand that has a wide dealership with trusteable quality workshops: > i.e. Yamaha, Suzuki.
- chose a bike that’s available used with 4-5yrs and in-line twin, or tractor v-twins.
- chose a bike with long maintenance intervals, low-manufacturer service charges and standard narrower tires, and less power than your average pub hero’s johnny length in milimeters.
- chose a bike where the models don’t change in 20plus years, but is still a solid recent market runner, if not still available.
Tataaaa, where are we?
Suzuki SV650! Or Vstrom650! Ugly? Well, make it nicer. Or try a Yam CP2 engined bike, a Kawa Z650.
Yes I know, Harley, Moto Guzzi, all that. You’re a fool if you believe yourself.
Evolutions and LeMans/California’s are too old and need meanwhile constant attention or an expensive professional full rebuild.
V7-750 Guzzis are the crap of yesterday, they worked in city and when new, change the clutch, please, and wonder what effect it has if an old mini-tractor has a tiny oil-reservoir. Yes, they’re great - when recent. We have worked on them as students for decades and they run, mostly not, until we fixed it, with our unprofessional idea of fixing cheap “reliable” and “fast” bikes.
You forget with older bikes that workshops don’t want to touch them anymore, 99% have changed their way of operations to parts-replacement, especially MotoGuzzi, most are piaggio brands dealers, that don’t deal with older stuff that’s not fresh in the portfolio. Same with other Brands. Just ask them for a 1992 Brembo brake pump of a Monster or a V10/Centauro. They don’t have it, not even in the catalog, they don’t even know what you’re talking about.
thus stop BS yourself, get a decent looking “beginner” japanese bike, ride it, care for it and service it. They are the best and there’s always a youngster happy to take it off you, once you want to change.
You’re stubborn and want to tell me Harley stories? Yes? Buy one and then let me know how cheap you got with it. It’s all BS, unless you can apply the main principles of good purchase, perfect maintenance and hero-like selling. Any other will cost you lots of money. parts ain’t cheap on Harley! Not now, not yesterday, never before. It’s only cheap if you don’t maintain it and even then, the oild cost you money, lot’s of oil and a that twice (gearbox, engine, …).
Your odyssey with triumph, well, you bought a fashion device, not a motorcycle. Trinckley has been clear on that since 1995. They were interested more in selling the Brand than in actual quality and still are. The superficial pseudo-quality of style (that is where they shine) and “look-a-like” (pro suspension and carb) is their culture! Pretenders! Like so many on that Island, sorry, to say, but 40yrs of dealing in business and private taught me a lot. The old Triumph I like, yes, they’re even more rubbish, but they are original, and much simpler, no, meanwhile not cheaper to run, weren’t then either.
The cheapest bike to self-maintain and roll-on I think from the section of cool bikes are the ones your law-system wants to get rid off, too. 1998-2003 motorcycles in perfect condition at 1/4th of the price, that are no collectible or junk-sourcing for bobber re-builds (like the Beemers are still).
Try a 883/1200 sportster, a Twin-Cam 88B big-twin wide-glide, a Yamaha SRX6, a MG Sport 1100 carb, Kawasaki W650/W800 (protect from Rust!)…
Hello Freddie. Owned my Aprilia RSV 1000 since 2006. Was 5 months old. Had valve checks done sporadically. Never changed. The bikes got 60,000 registered miles but has done more. (the 05/6) models, can reset their odos. Last check 2 years, ago was £500. All in spec.
Great to hear this from an Italian bike owner. That is serious mileage!
@@tuesdayatdobbs Hi Freddie. Don't forget. The engines Austrian. Rotax well known for being bulletproof. Not that I've shot it. 😄
@@yamark02I had a rotax Tuono and loved it. Just a bulletproof bike. That sound is addicting!
Had a few Honda's and had valves checked but never need shims. Currently run a Ducati MTS. just had another (39k miles) full Desmo service , vales, belts, oil, coolant and brake fluid. Only one ex valve adjusted as it would be out at next service. £1000 incl (specialist), and I know all the work was completed in full.
Very interesting
I‘ve owned and ridden my 1997 Vfr750f since the past 7 years. The 98-01 Vfr800 was injected. Since 2002 Honda introduced V-tec in the cylinder head which is extremely time consuming for adjusting valve clearances.
You have to become a detective when purchasing a secondhand motorcycle and literally do a masters degree on that particular model before buying.
Thanks Freddie and wish Monika and you a pleasant flight to India 🇮🇳
Personally, I don’t think it’s irresponsible to not want to spend on maintenance more than the bike is worth per say, but when you shop for a bike you should take into account what needs doing to it, what you want from the bike (e.g are you planning on keeping it long term or looking to sell it on?) personally if I were to buy a VRF I’d learn to work on it myself as a project, although I’d prefer to work on a classic bike than that. Restoration builds wouldn’t exist if people weren’t willing to put in more money than they are worth. In the real world if you just wanted something to run around and can accept the fact that it will cost more to repair or worked than its worth and you’re okay with just scrapping it and moving on then I wouldn’t bother with valve clearance on that specific bike if it’s a non-issue.
I did my own valve checks up til 30 k never had to shim at all. There’s a vlog on here vfr fi 100k valves never done
Husky 901 was on my shortlist for a bike to do miles on but heard to many reliably nightmares. Ended up with a triumph 1200 scrambler + windscreen and luggage rack. I’m going to Lemans gp, Isle of Man, and southern Spain on it this year. Have a great time in India, another bucket list for me 👍
Hi Freddie my Moto Guzzi California EV has hydraulic valves so no need to adjust great for me. Back in the early 1980s I owned a 250SX Harley Davidson 2 stroke which was really badged a Gagiva.
I do all my own mainenance. I just don't trust mechanics to do everythimng they say they do. I've never done a valve clearance check on any bike I've owned. Now I have a Guzzi V7 all I do is the oils, filters and brake pads and because I do it myself I can do it more often if needed. I upgraded the exhaust and remapped it myself. If theres ever a sale get the bits in while they're cheap. I was always told good oil keeps the engine young.
Very good point re the sale👌🏻👌🏻
Hey Freddie
My wife has a 2017 Triumph Tiger, full dealer service quoted $920 min
My 2015 Moto Guzzi can service it myself in about an hour, plugs $60 oil filter $20 oil $110 total $190
Trying to get her on a Guzzi V7 or v85
Love the channel
Interestingly Freddie, the only other bike I know of which has hydraulic valves, which never need manual adjustment because they self adjust is...... The Royal Enfield Classic 500, which ceased production in 2020. Servicing for these bikes is always just oil, filters and lube.
I have 3 early 80ies Shovelheads because I can do everything myself… and because they are not subject to the current strict regulations but can make 1980-ies noise.
I second the thoughts on Moto Guzzi. Very simple and cheap to service, and you have the privilege of owning and riding one of the most stylish and oldest manufactured motorcycle in the world with a rich history in European racing and manufacturing. I’m currently awaiting delivery of the new V100 Stelvio, my fourth MG😎
Hi Freddie
Just a follow up on the the cost to repair new bikes, The BMW R1200RT I sent you a photo of from Australia, I got an actual quote $ 2300 AUD this they told me included 2 keys. Also, the clocks,key, ignition, and two computers are all linked because of where the mileage is stored. You have to buy new
because of the programming
has to be at the dealers .
Regards Gary
PS keep the good work, enjoy Indian you are in for a shock.
Re service costs. This is another reason to return to low tech bikes. I just serviced my Royal Enfield 350 Classic including valve clearances. It took me about 6 hours (it was my first time so I had to work out how to do things) and cost less than £50. I have had many bikes, but this one definitely delivers the most smiles per pound 😀😀
I had a B-King for over seven years. I asked the mechanic in Portimao to check the valve clearances. He started the bike, said it didn't need it. I checked on the forum, and a bloke had done 80,000 miles, checked the clearances himself periodically and never had to do a shim.
I like the H-D Sportsters owner's story. 400,000 miles and 100,000 a belt. I imagine the belt on my SCR950 in Thailand would last that long. The simplicity of the SCR was why I bought it. Nick
I've had about 40 bikes in 50 years and only ever checked the valves on one, a Moto Guzzi 850. Simple to do them myself. Only ever needed to change the oil and filter on Japanese bikes and had no problems.
Also , YES, modern "Honda" ( I say honda cause thats my experience ) Checking top end IS NOT difficult get a manual, the pain is the plastic removal imho and yes you can run these japanese bike to 100 000 and not need a valve check just replace the oil often then one day the bike will become hard to start
The old Husqvarna factory in Varese, Italy is still being used by SWM motorcycles, they even bought some patents of old Husqvarna engines which they still use in the new SWM bikes.
Re the £1,500 VFR. You'd be daft to pay £1.200 for valve check. Presumably the valves were not clattering when one bought it so just keep riding it! What;s the worst that can happen? If the valves are not noisy they are unlikely to suddenly become noisy. VFRs use shims to set the valve clearance, so far less likely to require adjustment than conventional 'screw and lock nut' tappets.
Regarding belt drive, it has to be the way to go. I'm amazed how many bikes still use chains when modern long-life zero-maintenance (no lube or adjustment) required belts are available. Chains work well when totally enclosed in an an oil bath (such as valve timing chains in engines) where they are superior to belts. But for the exposed life of a bike transmission, belts are far better. And they are lighter and cheaper than shaft drives, and more efficient.
Mechanics won't use 2nd hand parts as, being pre-used, they may fail prematurely, then the mechanic will get the blame for not doing a proper job!
Best
Vince
I owned a VFR800 VTECH, did 60,000 before selling it. Mechanic said dont touch the valves as not needed. Ran like a dream.
Oliver's comments made me cry I only wish my dad was into bikes but sadly he was not but he did let me ride so I guess I must be happy for that !!
Freddie, BSA also started as a weapons manufacturer in 1861 -- Husqrvana ain't the only ones ;-)
Lot to be said for old classic bikes, points ignition, no computers, two valves per cylinder, no complex electronics or rider aids, my Z1 will live for ever!
Or a Guzzi. Two valves per cylinder nut and bolt adjustment without removing the tank.
The Harley-Davidson hydra-gluide looks like the softal deluxe with a different seat and bags, I have a softail deluxe that looks a lot like it
Freddie, I’m as mechanically talented as you. I’d argue the Royal Enfield Interceptor is extremely low cost maintenance. My valve check was $0 as I did it myself. Easy with a good video. The V7 may be slightly easier as the heads stick out the side. I’ve got to lift up the tank but after the first time it’s a breeze. Everything from my novice view has been relatively easy on the Interceptor. It has been my all time favorite bike in 30 years of riding.
A quick look through the comments and I’m gobsmacked. Apparently nobody has ever needed valve clearances done no matter the mileage.
Total BS.
Every bike I ever owned, with the exception of an XJR1300 and and. ZXR9 Ninja needed periodic shims or screw and nut adjustment. Smaller the bike the shorter the period needed between adjustments.
I have a 2013 Yamaha FJR1300 with 68,000 miles on it. Last April 2023 ,At 60, 000 miles, I had the valve clearance check done. One. The engine had never been opened. In nine years. Two. The valve clearance was within factory specification. Three. I will leave it that way for the next 60, 000 miles. The bike is a daily driver and my travel bike. And because it is so fast, I do not need to run it hard. I get 48 to 55 mpg with it. Love that bike.
Honda NC750 series are easy to service valves, need to remove radiator but rocker cover very accessible and no shims just screw and nut.
As I ride an old Suzuki 650 big single....changed the oil filter and tires...once in 9 years..the bike has done about 45,000 km and the engine about 10,000. Was changed after I discovered too late at the start of the season that the petrol had ended up in the oil. Carburetor had hung up. For the past 7 years I have been using it 12 months a year, mainly locally. So the bike doesn't cost me much apart from insurance.
Im planning to replace my 80s royal enfied small end bush a complete top end strip cost 20 pound time a couple of hours ,,, I will take a day cause im in no hurry ,, I will also replace all the carb gaskets , centre stand springs
I remember when the Fireblade came out years ago and a bike magazine stripped the engine down, just as an article feature. The engine had done 30K, which I know isn't a lot but they said it was still like new.
Hi, Freddie, I've owned many bikes in my life ( over 50 bikes) and i've decided , if it's in warranty get the dealer to do it, if it's out, its up to you, but it WLL effect it's value!!
What a nice and smart coffeetable, in a very classic design. It looks like a danish design :-)
It almost bankrupt me, but I was hellbent on buying it. I love it!
Freddie....after 56 years of riding...never checked the valves. The most I have done was 43k on one bike. (Triumph Sprint 955)
Back in the mid 90s my mechanic told me it wasn't worth doing a valve check as they were never out anyway. It was obvious the bike was running perfectly, so why not just run it and see how you go? It would be a shame to kill a lovely old Honda but really? Anyone ever seen a dead VFR engine? Oil, filters, tyres, pads, fork oil and coolant. Two hundred quid tops, do it yourself-able. Happy days!
I paid £190 for my first full service, oil etc on my Enfield classic which included valve clearance checks! So another reason I love it. Could do it myself but for the customer service and free loan bike bargain. 😊
Regarding the valve clearances on 4 cylinder Japanese bikes. Over the years I have found that, with air cooled Yamahas, the valve clearances settle down the more miles you do and I have had to change less with each service until they hardly move and stay in tolerance. Shimming is an easy job, tools are inexpensive and I have never needed to change a rocker cover gasket. I'm not sure if this is unique to air cooled bikes, or Yamahas but will find out as I now have a couple of liquid cooled Honda's too.
I've put nearly 11,000 miles on my 2023 Moto Guzzi V7 since buying it in July of last year. I've done all the services myself, and I have yet to find a valve out of adjustment. It's about $120 for the oils and another $50 or so for the valve cover gaskets. So far the bike has been bulletproof, and I ride it hard. As for your comment about tinkerers, I'm afraid you're right. Even if they did theoretically possess the knowledge and tools to repair modern German cars 30 years down the road, there would be so much expense from broken plastics that it simply wouldn't be worth it.
With regards to the VFR topic, and ALMOST every other bike on the planet, what you said is spot on! Valve checks are the biggest scam ever perpetuated on motorcycling!! When you buy a new bike you have no choice because they extort you with voiding the warranty, but never fall for this on a used bike especially, as mentioned, when it cost more than what you paid for the bike. If the valves are out to any significant degree, the bike will run NOTICEABLY poorly. As other people have mentioned in the comments, I to have heard this from more than a few "Honest" mechanics. I have owned several bikes in my 40 years of riding and have never adjusted the valves on one of them, over hundreds of thousands of combined kilometers. All Japanese BTW.
Those vfr750 and 800 motors rarely go out of spec and are so well made the shims will often be within tolerance even after 50000 miles. Theyre not easy to work on and fitting a new exhaust wasnt easy. I fitted a black widow stainless steel downpipe but the studs often seize in the head and can shear off. The regulator rectifiers are very bad and i went through 3 in 20000 miles until i fitted an electrex mosfet one thats dearer but far better. The eccentric adjusters for the chain can seize also and riding in winter with salted roads doesnt help. I was riding 75 miles a day to and from work but if i chose another bike it would be a v strom 650 as its cheaper to run and so good. I have a suzuki DR650 and i love that now. Great for speedbumps flat out.😂
My '84 Honda Cb650sc had hydraulic valves (16 of them) and shaft drive !
Hi Dobbs'y ... Loved your contact... As someone that's had 25 years of experience with twin cam engines in motor bikes and motor racing cars with Cosworth DB series engines. I understand the view that it feels expensive maintaining these engines especially the top end. My view is that based on there power, performance, weight saving and fun factor from these engines it's a small cost to pay. My advice is do not skimp on spending the money on the top end items such as shims and clearances. Being from oz I'm always amazed at the tight arse poms😊 who won't spend the necessary dollars on maintaining such engines. In the end it will cost more if you don't do it. The irony is that it was the English that pioneered twin cam engines that Japan copied and now sell back to you. Accept that if you buy a high performance twin cam engine that there maintenance you described is just part of running those engines there is no escaping it. If you spend the money on them they will return it back in fun and enjoyment. I challenge you to find a cheaper way to get those thrills.
Let me know when you're coming to Oz more than happy to help you out.
Pete
I wanted to change my front sprocket from a 15 tooth to a 16 tooth on a nearly new bike. The sprocket retains nut is notorious for being really difficult to loosen. The dealer quoted $215 aud to change it plus the cost of the sprocket $75. I've ordered an impact wrench for $85 and I'll do it myself.
I bought a cheap one from Lidl a parkside absolute godsend for everything whizzes off my variator on my scooter a notorious bitch of a job
Easy job and very satisfying, good end result too.
Hi Freddie
Noisy tappets aren't as much of a concern as too tight. this can lead to valve problems.
I agree with the other comments, as my BMW R1200RT has not needed shims changes in 102000 ks.
Freddie, the regular oil change
with good quality oil is the way to protect your engine.
I have changed oil every 5000 ks and had no engine problems in 50 years of owning bikes of all different
makes.
9:27 I think you need to distinguish between the sportster engine and the TC/M8 engines. Sportster is a noisy, rattly miracle of an engine but it’s reliable as hell. Especially, especially the carb model.
This is coming from someone who owns a carb Dyna, a V7ii and a couple of 70s triumph 750s ………. (Valve clearance adjustment is zero pounds for the last three)
Hi Freddie . When looking at bike purchases , as well as the bike appealing to me it must be simple to self service. My eyes were watering hearing the cost to some folks having a dealer do a service.
Modern classics I would go for an Enfield as they have tappets rather than bucket and shim to sdjust the valves . This means valve clearances take 30 mins and are done by turning a screw instead of buying new shims. For cruisers Harleys have hydraulic valves so never need servicing.
Sure loads of other bikes look great , Triumphs appeal to me especially but with electronic gizmos bucket shims they are not suitable for easy home maintenance
If it keeps the warranty going it might be wise to stay on the service schedule.
And although i don't myself, if you go the pcp route is dealer servicing not part of the deal?
But yes, uk dealer servicing on complex machines is in my opinion extortionate.
Ride safe and enjoy your trip. 👍
Hi Freddie, I think that you should try to test the new Husqvarna Svartpilen 401. I believe that you will enjoy it and find very interesting.
Have a good trip!!
I have a 2011 Triumph tiger 800. It's regular service is due every 6,000 miles, and it's valve check every 12,000. I was quoted £450 for the regular service, and £1,200 for the valve check. I did over 16,000 miles last year travelling around the UK, France and Spain and I plan to do similar trips this year, and next. Meaning if I stuck to the service book I'd be £1,650 down each year on service costs. Not a cost I am willing to swallow! I complete my own services and have so far disregard the valve checks.
Interestingly a valve check was done just before I bought the bike (at 12,00 miles), and no adjustments were made during that £1,200 check.
At 35,000 miles I did a compression test on my Zrx1200r , all 4 cylinders read 225psi. Which is highest end of the spec according to the workshop manual, perfect. I’ve owned the bike from new and never had the rocker/valve cover off. I won’t be taking off either.
They are simple to do. Spring loaded cam follower. No cam removal required.
In UK & US bike Mechanics charge heaps compared to NZ 🇳🇿 even with our lower wages & weak dollar.Also in UK people say it can take 2-3months wait to get in for a service in NZ 🇳🇿 you ring up & can only have to wait 4-6days.
Service cost about $350 & a valve adjustment service cost about $560nz.
Moto Guzzi, I have the V85TT and do all oil changes myself,gear box engine and shaft . When time comes for the valve adjustment I'll be getting a mobile motorcycle mechanic to do it. Mobile mechanic will have lower costs due to lower overheads. Two valves per cylinder and no bodywork to remove saving time and money..a simple machine to do maintenance on and being air cooled has less parts to go wrong.
Did my big service at 12k on my Street Triple,no adjustment needed and I'm yet to find one that's be out of tolerance the valve adjustment service isn't that difficult to do but the dealer service is a com
Speaking as an old Africa Twin owner, Husky 901 looks fabulous. Not sure about the high revving KTM engine in it though. Needs a grunty V2.
It's horses for course's ,if it's not your regular ride, then have a go take your time find a place u can take it to do it yourself 😊