I have similar thoughts about never going back to an air fork after putting a Smashpot into my fork. No worrying about pressure, less maintenance, better sensitivity and mid-stroke support. It's a shame how under-represented coil forks are. A neat thing about the Z1 Coil is the budget nature of the design actually works really well. The spring side actually traps air giving it a bit of ramp up near the end of the stroke!
Just ordered mine a few days ago. Jenson has them in both colors and 160-170mm for $339. Under $400 bucks. Had to get the extra firm spring. $45 with shipping from Fanatic bike shop. So still under $400 for the fork and spring. So excited. They were all I used back in the day (early 2000’s)
@@mtbtelly5522 they seem to have gotten better. Would love to be in your neck of the woods to have you do a set up ($$). My mom’s Australian so I got the dual citizenship. Need to come home and get some riding in. Anyway, mate I really like your channel. Good stuff and your fast as. Looking forward to what you think about the grip-2 damper in the bomber. Take it easy.
Been enjoying your content for years. The way u talk about suspension and feel is great. I feel like it’s little spoke about how important shock tunes are to frame kinematics and how everyshock that is not oem probably has a bad tune for u. So ups for getting your stuff changed up. Question, have u ever had a fork or shock custom tuned by a professional with aftermarket parts and dyno testing? I’ve been reading and messing around with aftermarket parts to great effect
No I haven’t gone too far into aftermarket stuff. I’ve had a luftkappe in a couple different forks and changed the tunes on a couple rear shocks, but nothing really custom
Any particular reason other than money? Shockcraft down under has a lot of custome stuff on offer. It’s definitely expensive but I’d love to hear you speak on the differences between stock and custome dampers. It’s very common in other wheels sports but is. It talked about to much in the mtb world
for RSSD coil: check out the WPS Podium piston kit. Allegedly it has a better / different flow, resulting in that compliance you spoke about. might be a worthy upgrade
I would love to see you try a manitou mezzer pro fork? shockcraft in nz can set them up with custom revalve for your riding. and have him revalve your shock at the same time. i bet you would be a happy and ripping on that setup!!!
The new super deluxe coil shock can be retuned with different shim stacks, RS has a whole service manual of all the different compression, rebound, and rebound check shim stack tunes. Might be worth playing around with it 🤷🏼♂️ I would experiment with 3/5w oil and/or different combinations of tunes. Hope you get it sorted
In my experience, you'll be pulling that Bomber CR apart before long when the compression damping goes. Fox ended up giving me a Factory Float X after the third warranty claim on mine. I rang Cyclinic to order a DHX2 and was about to sell the X & they suggested I give the X a go first. They were right, top service to talk themselves out of a sale. I already picked up a cheap Factory 36 for the damper to put in my Z1 coil but ended up just going with the 36 & shaving nearly a kilo off the old Rune.
Do you mean the knocking on compression? That's a cracked washer from the shock being assembled incorrectly and is easy to permanently fix. It is pretty unacceptable how common the issue is though for sure. Also strange they offered you a Float X and not a DHX.
I thought the same when I installed a vorsprung smashpot - coil fork so good, never going back to air! Well, I just went back to air after 8 months. The first thing I noticed is it feels like there’s more support to push against with air. The poppy/playful cliche is real! I missed the small bump compliance and linear stroke immediately but it’s not a night and day difference, just a small increment of improvement imo.
Yeah I feel you there. My working setup for best performance out of the coil feels like I need to add a token to tidy that spring curve up a touch, a little extra preload gives me that support but costs a little compliance off the top
Saying that, i do have more hsc to play with now (grip2) which has made the setup feel stronger so maybe I’ll be able to find a working setup from here
I’ve had the same experience, but stuck with coil, mainly cause the stuff I ride is chunkier. I think if I had more park laps or jumpy stuff, I might go back to air in that case.
I find the newest grip2 dampers to be seriously lacking in their compression range (even with HSC fully closed I don't feel much). Caveat is I'm a 90kg rider. Steve from Vorsprung did a good video on it with a dyno graph (new fox 38 video). Fox will be releasing 4 new dampers soon and apparently the main change for the new "GripX2" is a much firmer compression tune.@@mtbtelly5522
Coil benefits present best in the park imo. The achilles heel of air springs is small bump chatter (braking bumps) and heat buildup from long descents - both if which happen the most in bike parks@@rpiian
I love this fork. Absolutely crushes rough chunder! Ran mine undersprung (med instead of firm) and 10mm over (170) so obviously floats in that terrain. The trade off for me was jumping was pretty vague and not as supportive. I'll be trying the firm spring to stiffen it up a bit and reduce the travel to 160 to recover some better climbing characteristics on my rig (Process 153). I also wanted to add Grip 2 and Smashpot but that’ll probably have to wait till next seasons budget…
@@mtbtelly5522 Sorry, about 100kg fully kitted. So yea, the chart recommends firm for me, and I’m on medium. I gained about 5kg since when I bought the fork and actually rode it, as well, which didn’t help. But I ran it and didn’t hate it in the rough stuff (what I like riding the most). In a way it’s similar to how Melamed was setting up his Enduro bike. Softer in the front for supreme confidence in the roughest, wettest crap. But again, jumping on it (esp steep lips) felt weird. Most of that was my rear shock also being too soft, but it seemed to sap my boosting ability compared to a hardtail I ride.
@@mtbtelly5522 Yea, stoked to try out a stiffer setup. Oddly enough I’ve also found the Z1 chassis to be pretty stiff, or I don’t notice the flex as much as I did with my old bike that had a 35mm Pike. Compared to a DH Slayer I rented one time, ridden on the same trails, the Z1 is not actually that far off… obviously not as good as dual crown but I felt confident charging into the same stuff!
Having similar issues with the 2023 RS coil. Have the LNL tune as stock and not getting enough support + sits deep in the travel(prbly slow HSR). Tried multiple linear & progressive springs. Slapped the older Rockshox SD air with medium tune and it’s dialed!! Think I might try the new vivid.
My guess is a lot of the topout comes from the preload. Since there is a force at position zero, trying to extend the shock further. This isn't there with minimal preload. So I would try the extra firm coil, but yeah maybe a bit too pricey as an experiment if in the end it's too stiff.
So it still tops out with the preload off, but slightly less aggressive maybe. I’ve put the grip2 in, played with rebound settings, still tops out. I’m thinking maybe its just the basic spring setup finding full travel with no bump stop or topout bumper
How did you solve the problem that occures out of the difference between the 1.8 super tapered lower headset bearing versus the 1.5 "normal" tapered shaft of the fork?
Really want to try a coil fork for my steel enduro bike but wonder if it is going to loose the pop and just feel a bit vague. Right now I am on the Lyrik 2.1 and sd coil on the rear and the bike is super comfortable but sometimes I wish for a stiffer front end. I love that lyrik though.. compliant and playful. Is the Z1 stiffer?
Z1 with a grip2 damper for sure. The 2020 Lyrik ultimate with the B1 spring is hard to beat, but I wasn’t a fan of the C1 spring in the 22 lyrik. Problem with the Z1 is spring availability. I’ve been waiting for this damn spring since I got the fork, and I’m still waiting. So that sucks. Their spring rate chart is wildly inaccurate as well. Says I should be on a medium which is dangerously soft for my 78kg, I’m running the firm spring at full preload to get enough support. The xtra firm (55lb) should be perfect for me, and maybe just a touch stiff on the slower more technical trails
@@mtbtelly5522 yeah when I looked into it when I had the Z1 I read the same, the grip damper actually suits the coil fork well. Obviously different story with the air spring though.
@@mtbtelly5522 call. I have the Fox rhythm and have been thinking about this upgrade for awhile now. Do you know if the air side of the rhythm is the same as the fox performance?
I’ve heard the fox rhythm won’t accept the grip2 also. But surely a few beers and a bit of tinkering would make it fit. Just the metal used for the upper legs are thicker I know. Same as the Bomber.
Nice to have you back a bit more telly - love your work cheers mike
I have similar thoughts about never going back to an air fork after putting a Smashpot into my fork. No worrying about pressure, less maintenance, better sensitivity and mid-stroke support. It's a shame how under-represented coil forks are.
A neat thing about the Z1 Coil is the budget nature of the design actually works really well. The spring side actually traps air giving it a bit of ramp up near the end of the stroke!
Just ordered mine a few days ago. Jenson has them in both colors and 160-170mm for $339. Under $400 bucks. Had to get the extra firm spring. $45 with shipping from Fanatic bike shop. So still under $400 for the fork and spring. So excited. They were all I used back in the day (early 2000’s)
Its an excellent fork, especially at that price
@@mtbtelly5522 they seem to have gotten better. Would love to be in your neck of the woods to have you do a set up ($$). My mom’s Australian so I got the dual citizenship. Need to come home and get some riding in. Anyway, mate I really like your channel. Good stuff and your fast as. Looking forward to what you think about the grip-2 damper in the bomber. Take it easy.
Killer deal, such a good fork for the price!
Been enjoying your content for years. The way u talk about suspension and feel is great. I feel like it’s little spoke about how important shock tunes are to frame kinematics and how everyshock that is not oem probably has a bad tune for u. So ups for getting your stuff changed up. Question, have u ever had a fork or shock custom tuned by a professional with aftermarket parts and dyno testing? I’ve been reading and messing around with aftermarket parts to great effect
No I haven’t gone too far into aftermarket stuff. I’ve had a luftkappe in a couple different forks and changed the tunes on a couple rear shocks, but nothing really custom
Any particular reason other than money? Shockcraft down under has a lot of custome stuff on offer. It’s definitely expensive but I’d love to hear you speak on the differences between stock and custome dampers. It’s very common in other wheels sports but is. It talked about to much in the mtb world
for RSSD coil: check out the WPS Podium piston kit. Allegedly it has a better / different flow, resulting in that compliance you spoke about. might be a worthy upgrade
I would love to see you try a manitou mezzer pro fork? shockcraft in nz can set them up with custom revalve for your riding. and have him revalve your shock at the same time. i bet you would be a happy and ripping on that setup!!!
The new super deluxe coil shock can be retuned with different shim stacks, RS has a whole service manual of all the different compression, rebound, and rebound check shim stack tunes. Might be worth playing around with it 🤷🏼♂️ I would experiment with 3/5w oil and/or different combinations of tunes. Hope you get it sorted
In my experience, you'll be pulling that Bomber CR apart before long when the compression damping goes. Fox ended up giving me a Factory Float X after the third warranty claim on mine.
I rang Cyclinic to order a DHX2 and was about to sell the X & they suggested I give the X a go first. They were right, top service to talk themselves out of a sale.
I already picked up a cheap Factory 36 for the damper to put in my Z1 coil but ended up just going with the 36 & shaving nearly a kilo off the old Rune.
Not sure if you still have the Z1 chassis, but with that extra weight (material) comes added stiffness. If the 36 is too noodly or flexy.
Do you mean the knocking on compression? That's a cracked washer from the shock being assembled incorrectly and is easy to permanently fix. It is pretty unacceptable how common the issue is though for sure.
Also strange they offered you a Float X and not a DHX.
@@iliketoridebikes they didn’t have a DHX in stock at the time.
I wouldn’t mind a coil shock to put on with the Z1 for Maydena days.
@@johnbown3119 at least they took care of you! I’ve heard the Float X is really great, I hope it works out better than your Bomber did
I thought the same when I installed a vorsprung smashpot - coil fork so good, never going back to air! Well, I just went back to air after 8 months. The first thing I noticed is it feels like there’s more support to push against with air. The poppy/playful cliche is real! I missed the small bump compliance and linear stroke immediately but it’s not a night and day difference, just a small increment of improvement imo.
Yeah I feel you there. My working setup for best performance out of the coil feels like I need to add a token to tidy that spring curve up a touch, a little extra preload gives me that support but costs a little compliance off the top
Saying that, i do have more hsc to play with now (grip2) which has made the setup feel stronger so maybe I’ll be able to find a working setup from here
I’ve had the same experience, but stuck with coil, mainly cause the stuff I ride is chunkier. I think if I had more park laps or jumpy stuff, I might go back to air in that case.
I find the newest grip2 dampers to be seriously lacking in their compression range (even with HSC fully closed I don't feel much). Caveat is I'm a 90kg rider. Steve from Vorsprung did a good video on it with a dyno graph (new fox 38 video). Fox will be releasing 4 new dampers soon and apparently the main change for the new "GripX2" is a much firmer compression tune.@@mtbtelly5522
Coil benefits present best in the park imo. The achilles heel of air springs is small bump chatter (braking bumps) and heat buildup from long descents - both if which happen the most in bike parks@@rpiian
I love this fork. Absolutely crushes rough chunder! Ran mine undersprung (med instead of firm) and 10mm over (170) so obviously floats in that terrain. The trade off for me was jumping was pretty vague and not as supportive. I'll be trying the firm spring to stiffen it up a bit and reduce the travel to 160 to recover some better climbing characteristics on my rig (Process 153). I also wanted to add Grip 2 and Smashpot but that’ll probably have to wait till next seasons budget…
How much do you weigh?
@@mtbtelly5522 Sorry, about 100kg fully kitted. So yea, the chart recommends firm for me, and I’m on medium. I gained about 5kg since when I bought the fork and actually rode it, as well, which didn’t help. But I ran it and didn’t hate it in the rough stuff (what I like riding the most). In a way it’s similar to how Melamed was setting up his Enduro bike. Softer in the front for supreme confidence in the roughest, wettest crap. But again, jumping on it (esp steep lips) felt weird. Most of that was my rear shock also being too soft, but it seemed to sap my boosting ability compared to a hardtail I ride.
@@rpiian oh yeah nice. It will definitely get better again if you can put an extra firm spring in there
@@mtbtelly5522 Yea, stoked to try out a stiffer setup. Oddly enough I’ve also found the Z1 chassis to be pretty stiff, or I don’t notice the flex as much as I did with my old bike that had a 35mm Pike. Compared to a DH Slayer I rented one time, ridden on the same trails, the Z1 is not actually that far off… obviously not as good as dual crown but I felt confident charging into the same stuff!
Having similar issues with the 2023 RS coil. Have the LNL tune as stock and not getting enough support + sits deep in the travel(prbly slow HSR). Tried multiple linear & progressive springs. Slapped the older Rockshox SD air with medium tune and it’s dialed!! Think I might try the new vivid.
I haven’t found a great setup on the vivid yet, but many people have
Good to see you getting it dialed, do you still have the Trek and the Banshee? Do you ride them at all anymore?
Nah they’re both sold
My guess is a lot of the topout comes from the preload. Since there is a force at position zero, trying to extend the shock further. This isn't there with minimal preload. So I would try the extra firm coil, but yeah maybe a bit too pricey as an experiment if in the end it's too stiff.
So it still tops out with the preload off, but slightly less aggressive maybe. I’ve put the grip2 in, played with rebound settings, still tops out. I’m thinking maybe its just the basic spring setup finding full travel with no bump stop or topout bumper
How did you solve the problem that occures out of the difference between the 1.8 super tapered lower headset bearing versus the 1.5 "normal" tapered shaft of the fork?
I don’t believe there was a difference. The steerers between the 2 forks are the same size so the swap was simple
Really want to try a coil fork for my steel enduro bike but wonder if it is going to loose the pop and just feel a bit vague.
Right now I am on the Lyrik 2.1 and sd coil on the rear and the bike is super comfortable but sometimes I wish for a stiffer front end.
I love that lyrik though.. compliant and playful.
Is the Z1 stiffer?
I’d say the z1 and the lyrik are very similar in terms of chassis stiffness
I could never find the extra firm coil for the fork.
The springs were hard to find for a while there, poor supply efforts from marzocchi
@MTB Telly sir, marazochi coil z1 or 2022 generation lyrik ultimate ? What would be your preference ?
Z1 with a grip2 damper for sure. The 2020 Lyrik ultimate with the B1 spring is hard to beat, but I wasn’t a fan of the C1 spring in the 22 lyrik. Problem with the Z1 is spring availability. I’ve been waiting for this damn spring since I got the fork, and I’m still waiting. So that sucks. Their spring rate chart is wildly inaccurate as well. Says I should be on a medium which is dangerously soft for my 78kg, I’m running the firm spring at full preload to get enough support. The xtra firm (55lb) should be perfect for me, and maybe just a touch stiff on the slower more technical trails
@@mtbtelly5522 thank you for detailed response, sifu
What's the tune of your super deluxe coil?
Lnl320
Hey Telly who did you get the damper through?
Cyclinic bro
@@mtbtelly5522 ahh cheers Jeansy 👍
@@nigehill they had 2 left when I got it
@@nigehill not a big difference from the grip damper to be honest. Still the same top out, but more control over the compression independantly
@@mtbtelly5522 yeah when I looked into it when I had the Z1 I read the same, the grip damper actually suits the coil fork well. Obviously different story with the air spring though.
Where did you get the grip 2 from?
From Cyclinic for a fox 36
@@mtbtelly5522 call. I have the Fox rhythm and have been thinking about this upgrade for awhile now. Do you know if the air side of the rhythm is the same as the fox performance?
Is there a way you can upgrade the air side of the rhythm?
Because if not, I’ll just get an entire performance or factory fork
@@chadsugden411 i’m not too sure, if its a 34 air shaft you could luftkappe it
I’ve heard the fox rhythm won’t accept the grip2 also. But surely a few beers and a bit of tinkering would make it fit. Just the metal used for the upper legs are thicker I know. Same as the Bomber.