THOUSANDS Of These Have Been Found Around The Ancient World
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- čas přidán 26. 07. 2024
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Scattered around the sites of ancient Mesopotamia are thousands of devices called cylinder seals. They are equal parts stamp, credit card, and jewelry. They were how people signed for things and proved who they were in the days before paper. It’s a fascinating relic of a time long past and proof that the same issues of authentication that blockchain was developed to solve have been a part of humanity from day one.
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LINKS LINKS LINKS
www.govinfo.gov/about/authent...
hbr.org/2022/05/what-is-web3
link.springer.com/chapter/10....
www.archaeology.org/issues/42...
www.thehistorypress.co.uk/art...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cylinde...
www.spurlock.illinois.edu/col...
www.metmuseum.org/blogs/metki...
www.metmuseum.org/art/collect...
www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi...
cdli.ox.ac.uk/wiki/doku.php?i...
www.nature.com/articles/143999a0
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olmec_h...
mashable.com/article/tiffany-...
www.nsf.gov/news/mmg/mmg_disp...
www.ancient-origins.net/artif...
www.nsf.gov/news/mmg/mmg_disp...
TIMESTAMPS
0:00 - Intro
1:32 - Federal Authenticity
3:20 - Ancient Identification
4:40 - Advantages of Cylinder Seals
7:31 - Seals as Status Symbols
9:20 - Eventual Decline
11:25 - Sponsor - Brilliant - Věda a technologie
In Japan, you need a seal and a signature for official document. You need to create a unique seal for yourself when you are in legal age to sign official document like opening a bank account or buying a house.
Korea as well
So, like a signet ring the Romans used?
@anselpeneloperainblossom-s3489 Technically it's a "stamp" but I have seen them on rings
Two factor auth then? :)
Yes 🙌 isn’t the Japanese story of origin very similar to ancient Sumerian mythology something about descendants from heaven… so many similarities. The royal sea of nibiru was a winged red disk same with Egypt and you find megalithic polygonal constructions as well as giant kofun swords fit for Gilgamesh. And the mountain gods who live in a volcano and the tall mountain spirits. The symbol for the origin myth even looks like the engineering cross section of a winged dragon. If only we could all step back and appreciate how much in common we all really have and that our differences are quite supplemental and refreshing to exchange. Deepest bow from America to our Japanese brothers and sisters. Need to learn from the polygonal megalith builders that our diversity makes us stronger together.
Back then crypto bros had to go blind the old fashioned way by staring at the sun.
Going blind the old fashioned way means something totally different to me.
HJHHAHHAHHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHA! Perfect. :)
nice reference 😂
LMFAO
@inversebrah
Another fascinating authentication technique used in Mesopotamia for particularly important documents was the use of envelopes. A clay tablet would be inscribed with a text and fired, and then inserted into a hollow enveloping shell of clay, on which they'd inscribe the same text. The envelope was then closed, and a stamp seal or cylinder seal would be used to seal it. So if there was ever any legal dispute over the authenticity of a document, the outer clay could be broken open, and the text on the inner tablet would be compared with the text on the envelope tablet to ensure that the text hadn't been forged or tampered with. In such cases, a document was often only admissible as evidence if it could be produced in its unopened envelope, to be broken open and examined by the law court. The use of an envelope plus a stamp/cylinder seal could be considered the earliest known method of two-factor authentication!
Oh my god, I wish I’d seen that for this video! Good share, thanks!
Seems similar to a digital signature, except that the hash is the whole text and the public key is a hammer.
This is a super cool bit of information!
I feel like this could be used in the modern age.
To check for fake ID'S and counterfeit bills
Reminds me of a society that was used to living advanced but then got stranded on a planet and did their best to replicate the tech they use to have
I dont actually think thats historically accurate, just a cool thought
In the UK here and when I took out a mortgage 30 years ago I was lucky enough to be offered the original
vellum copies attached to the property. They're covered in official seals, some straight on the vellum others
hanging by ribbons.
The bank gave them to me free because they were only going to throw them in the rubbish.
That is so cool!
I want to believe a beefeater carried it from the backroom with a cryer ringing a bell and announcing that the deed had been signed on this day of our Lord.
did they at least let you stamp them with your own wax seal? For fun?
That is soooo cool! I'd love to look at that. Did you know that England used to also use tally sticks to keep records? The practice was discontinued in 1826, but when the Exchequer tried to destroy a bunch of them several years later, they accidentally caused westminster palace to burn down. Getting rid of old records can be a real task!
Why would they throw them out vs. give them to the local town / municipal authority for their records? That sounds criminal from a historical preservation perspective.
As a full time career potter, I always use a release agent when stamping imagery or patterns into clay, for the sharpest details. My preference is usually olive oil, but thinner, lighter oils work well. Mineral oil, penetrating oil, canola oil, etc, could be dabbed on the image with a sponge dipped in oil and squeezed out somewhat.
Any dried clay should be wiped off with water. If you use a light oil, you can wipe that off with water as well. You don't have to be too worried about keeping the water and oil separate.
Love your channel, Joe.
I knew I was doing something wrong 😄
That was exactly my first thought at the 6:40 mark, and I'm not a potter.
is it just me or are the similarities between this and a fidget spinner remarkable?
I was going to suggest that, but you beat me to it, ha ha!
True story: When Tesla giga-castings are done (really massive chunks of metal!), the machines are coated with soybean oil so they release quickly and cleanly.
@@Syncrotron9001 Old shapes made new again!
A big advantage of a cylinder seal over a signet ring is the difficulty of constructing a forgery from an impression. This is relatively easy using plaster on a signet ring seal but would be very much more difficult to reconstruct a cylindrical surface.
True!
Am I that big of a nerd that I knew what a Cylinder Seal was as soon as Joe held it up? I was so fascinated by them as a kid, that and cuneiform. Would love to get one of those! Awesome content as always, Joe!
Nope you're not alone. Though not as much as you, I too did recognize it. I was fascinated by the concept of fantasy world currencies which led me to historical real world currencies. And that led me to how they knew something was authentic or not.
@@redacted178 And who said having a love for fantasy was a waste of time? Sometimes fantasy worlds will peak our curiosity in exploring our own. It must of then been quite the treat to find out it was all real after all. Good on you, mate!
I’m a history nerd and I have never heard of them. I have no idea why and am ashamed, lol.
@@RabidChild82 Hey, we all can’t know everything. I bet you know things I’m not even aware of. But that’s what makes interacting with each other both fascinating and a necessity. We are meant to always be learning and filling in the gaps within our knowledge, and we can only do that together.
You are... and that puts you in really good company, here at least! 😁
If anyone happens to be passing through NYC, you can see these at the Met and also at the Morgan Library and Museum. They have a whole slew of these things in one of the rooms in the original part of the house. A friend of mine and I went to see a show there at the beginning of the year called "She Wrote." It was about the first know authored piece of writing. Often, these cylinder seals were representations of quotes from Mesopotamian literature. The person who wrote the original hymns and poetry was a priestess named Enheduanna. Her hymns and exaltations were recorded and quoted from for centuries by Mesopotamian scribes. It would be like having a text from the bible or a line of Shakespeare or the Koran as one's signature.
Interesting 😊 As a ceramic artist (wannabee), I've purchased - and made - similar cylinders for imprinting unique textures into my work.
Helpful hint: you need to use some type of release agent on the cylinder (my favorite is WD40) to prevent clay boogers from getting stuck in the cylinder.
(Pretty sure the ancient Mesopotamians didn't have access to WD40!)
Ironically I had a can of WD-40 right next to me when recording that. 😄
I'd imagine they'd have used something like olive oil.
@@joescotthey could you tell what music was used in this part I have been asking for so long with no answers.
6:00 the advantages portion.
Perhaps WD-1?
Water?!😊
As much as i love your videos, i tried brilliant out and I literally completed 5 classes before having to correct like 3 answers they explained incorrectly and have since not used them. As much as learning can be fun, when there are no accreditation for their classes then there is no guarantee they present accurate info, you cant rely on them for accurate answers or a worthwhile education. I will continue to watch your amazing videos but I will never support failed education institutions. much love
I have done a few of their courses and noticed a lot of their questions and solutions are 'odd' at best, ranging from "That's weird, if I do it XYZ it works too' through to plain outright wrong. As if the quality control is lacking a lot of times.
(EDIT: Ironically enough for my complaining about quality control, I made typos. My excuse is. umm.. Look! A squirrel!)
yup, brilliant is garbage. No quality control whatsoever. It's just a pay per view version of youtube with a focus on supposedly educational content.
sounds like they're crowdsourcing the qa. brilliant!
Thank you for the honest review! As something that markets itself through science youtubers, that's extremely disappointing. I was about to say "maybe in the arts you'd get some value from amateurs sharing what works for them" but then I realized you can have a method or style _work_ but that doesn't mean there hasn't been something innovated that works _better_ . There's no use in an educational resource that doesn't fact-check itself.
@@ptonpc I did the Security+ exam earlier this year, and I found the official test question guide they publish through a partner to be rife with either outright incorrect answers, or only partially correct. Really irked me that I had to pay money for an "industry" certificate when I know that much of the material is not right. It's no wonder so many people barely pass or have to take it multiple times. If you learn the correct information, you're not guaranteed to have the "correct" answer for the test. I'm guessing Brilliant's similar?
I was in the Penn Museum the other week, and they had an entire wall of seal cylinders with blowups of what was on them. Super cool how little the art style changed from Ur to the Achaemenid and later sassanid empires. Edit for clarity: the Persian empires didn’t make as wide a use of cylinder seals, but the figures and what’s depicted don’t change much.
Making the surface wet helps a lot with clay shaping. Dipping the seal in water/oil/paint/other may have changed the result making it both easier to print and harder to replicate the results.
Also, buying a seal with a saying, expression, sentence, mantra, prayer, and such would be an easy way for non literate folks to be able to "write" things relevant to them.
Family crest equivalent, trade/employment certification, signature, are just some uses that could have been.
Though I'm no specialist or expert here. Just postulating.
Im a hobbyist who does a lot of "old world trades" for fun (clay bricks and molds, blacksmithing and bladesmithing, soft metal smelting, weaving, tool making, flint and glass knapping, and the such) I'm also not a purist/recreationist, just learning what people did before we did what we do. Learning about where we come from, in all ways.
The ontario 98 ice storm really instilled in me the realisation that most of us are electricity away from not even knowing how to survive, but they thrived and got us here.
The type of clay will make a difference in your impression result. The clay you were using is not good for clay impressions. The clay is of equal importance as the Cylinder Seal used. Most likely, they used an oil coating to not allow the roller to remove clay from the blank that is used and soil the ID roller as it is pressed into the clay.
not certain the concave shape helps a good impression either
The concave shape provides the furrow lines top and bottom, sort of like our ruled paper lines we write between. In this case, it is to enclose the symbols for the transactions made by the owner of the cylinder seal, or to make it sharp and crisp. I imagine the mixture of the clay used for transactions was as closely guarded a secret as today's making of paper bills.@@cynvision
I lived in Japan for a couple years and they have something similar called a 'hanko'. It's a small cylinder with your own personal stamp on one end which you press into red ink and affix to official documents. I'm glad I kept mine!
Is this registered with the government or how do you go about the process of getting one?
I had a government sponsored teaching contract and was given one automatically. I'm not sure if every foreigner working in Japan is issued one or not or if there is a procedure for an individual to get one on their own.
It is interesting you mentioned that 3 AJAW sounded like a Mesoamerican Rap name, because it is understood that a common naming convention in the region was to name babies after the day they were born. AJAW is a month on the Mayan calendar so they were born on the 3rd day of the Ajaw month. Also, a bit of a nit pick, but it is pronounced 'Ah-How' by Mayan speakers today. The term Ajaw is generally associated with Lordship or Rulership, but its origins go back to roaming shamanic astronomers from a pre-Olmec society that used the positions of the stars to help determine the best time of year to plant Maize. I did my thesis research on this topic and it is absolutely fascinating. As to why the people of this region created cylinder seals and toys with wheels, and grand roads between cities, but there is no evidence for wheels being used for carts or transportation, I couldn't tell you.
I thought the wheel thing was because they lived mostly in the mountains, and it was impractical to have wheels you'd have to push/pull up and down steep mountains. Far more practical to just ride whatever mounts were native to the area. I may be totally wrong though, and certainly didn't write any thesis on them lol
@@elijahclaude3413isn't that for andean civilization? As far as i can tell, mesoamerican people don't even have large domesticated animal to ride or pull carts.
@@refindoazhar1507 Just looked it up, you're right, they didn't have draft animals. They just walked lol. And used boats along the coast.
They used slaves to carry things usually.
I swear I learn more from my comments than I do in my research. This is fascinating, thanks for sharing!
We all do Joe.. We all do.😏
Why didn't they make cylinder seals out of iron?
Because blacksmiths would forge them.
I am OBSESSED with beads and this makes me think so much about trade beads!
I actually have two ancient-looking, very crude clay beads with weird unique markings on them, that I'm looking at in a new light now... So much to learn about BEADS.
Thank you!
Edit: I could definitely convert a 2D image into a 3D-printed cylinder seal. I don't think there's a market for that? But it sounds cool to me. I am going to make my own.
Oooh I bet people who work with clay could use that! I've seen a couple in the comments here... Also, I remember having a pen in elementary school that had a cylinder at the top with a design embossed to roll in ink and then on paper to transfer the design, that may work as well? That'd probably need an absorbent material...
I have a feeling that so many cylinder seals are found precisely because they were forged so often.
Regarding information security, I'm also reminded of when I saw the Magna Carta for the first time and noticed that it was written all the way to the edge of the paper. Turns out this was a way to ensure that words couldn't be added or trimmed off without it being very noticeable.
Dude, ancient information security
I was wondering how often they were forged, but seeing as it was used for thousands of years by a lot of people, it may be that forging it wasn't really worth it, but so many are found because it was so widely used for such a long time.
A famous Nigerian prince was making rounds in Mesopotamia.
9:35
_Well as is so happens!_
There is an old record of exactly that: an older generation lamenting how paper is phasing-out the use of tablets, even pondering something to the tune of "what will these kids do when they run out of paper?"
I think I first heard of it from a Vsauce video, but it's been so long that I honestly can't remember. Shouldn't be hard to Google, though, I'd imagine.
"How would our records survive a fire? They would be lost forever! I'll stick to my clay tablets, thank you very much. Woke liberals, be damned!"
I carve fire agate, which is made from and enveloped inside of chalcedony (pronounced cal-sid-in-ee, btw).
...And to say I am impressed with the level of detail that ancient specimen made from chalcedony showed, is a crazy understatement. I have a top-of-the-line, industry-specific rotary tool and bits made for gemstone carving, and can only recently say comparable skill has been unlocked in my repertoire. Wow.
Im always amazed by how smart even amcient humans were, in our modern world we like to think of them as stupid but when all you got is time and trial and error you can get some pretty fucking cool things
Kal-said-oh-knee
I visited Persepolis as a young man. What most impressed me was the quality of the stone carving, some of which was better than anything we can do today. The ancients may have been ancient -- but they weren't less capable or intelligent!
@@esoniqplyr1 I've heard it that way more at gem shows, so it's probably the correct way.
@@esoniqplyr1also, puh-PIE-russ.
The analogy is not crypto (which is theoretically a unit of currency) but instead the analogy would be to a public key used for encryption, or a fingerprint, or similar. The seals were for validating IDENTITY. By "crypto", I'm assuming you are referring to blockchain, which does not have validating identity as its purpose - the purpose is instead validating transaction history. Very different things.
You're only halfway correct here. Blockchains use public and private keys for authentication. Only the owner of the private keys can perform transactions on its behalf, and they can even include metadata such as text messages with that transaction. It cannot be forged, it cannot be modified. It's stored on a globally accessible database that everyone has access to, nobody has control over, and nobody can shut down.
People take this a step further by building on-chain identities. This is especially the case with NFT ownership. Nobody in NFTs cares if you right-click save the image (many would prefer if you do, actually). What's important is the cryptographic token behind the NFT, providing a digital signature of who created it and providing provenance to it. This becomes more apparent when you realize people actually assign unique on-chain names to their public addresses so they become humanly readable instead of a long string of hex. People often use NFTs as their on-chain identity as they're the only true owner of the NFT. If anyone re-uploads a forgery, everyone can tell it's fake. Nobody bothers with fakes, they have no value, it's part of why artists don't really have to worry about re-uploads of their works as NFTs because nobody falls for those. They want the authenticity, and sometimes owning an authentic token comes with exclusive benefits such as acting as a pass to IRL parties. Trying to get into one with a fake is impossible.
An example of this is a 3D model I commissioned from one of my favorite artists. They made it as an NFT for me, everyone can see what I paid for that commission too. We didn't have to exchange any personal information such as email, bank accounts, or PayPal (which doxes you during transactions) in order for them to receive instant payment from me across the globe. Without knowing any personal information, they could identify that I was the one who sent the money, and I could verify that they were the one who received it.
This adds social proofs to their on-chain identity as they network with more people who have established on-chain history. My wallet is public, everyone can see what I commission and if they like a particular image in my collection they can easily trace back the original artist of those works to see their full portfolios without ever contacting them or me. My 3D model NFT also acts as a cryptographic key that allows me to download the model associated with it. The NFT itself acts as validator, and right click saving the video associated with the NFT doesn't give you that ability.
So to say crypto is just a theoretical unit of currency completely misses the entire "crypto" part. It's cryptography. In the end it's private and public keys, validating each other online. Transactions are just one (very important) usecase of the technology because trade is a cornerstone of human civilization.
And I thought NFT's was a stupid joke.. well fuck me I've got to study hard on the universe if the magic of NFT's. Thanks for the peek into a whole new universe. Damn I am getting to old for starting from zero knowledge..😮💨
The wallet is the identity, the address of your wallet is the public key. Blockchain records transactions between identities
The private key allows you to access your funds and send them somewhere else
mesopotamia: *has a form of signature thats a cylinder to roll on clay*
crypto bro: OMG ITS LIKE BLOCK CHAIN ‼️‼️‼️
When you are lookin for clay, look for ceramic clay. There are plenty of things like modeling clay and other polymer clays that don't behave quite like ceramics.
I’ve been a fan for over 2 days now and your entertaining and have intelligent things to talk about i love ancient history. Thanks for sharing glad i discovered your channel.
The big difference is there are actual uses for the cylinder unlike crypto
I like this theme of old tech solutions to modern problems... it is pretty fascinating!
Joe & Co., any way you guys could do a video on that whole tulip mania/ bubble back in the early 1600's? Since we're talking about crypto it reminded me of that. Thanks!
That was a fascinating story. I can't remember the name of the book in which I read about it, but IIRC, it also covered potatoes and marijuana. So interesting how plants and economies influence the other.
Fascinating, that's why I love this channel, it always provides lots of interesting stuff I've never heard of, always learning. Keep them coming Joe!!
Thank you very much!
Joe - thank you for years of AMAZING content!
Glad you enjoy it!
9:20 did you really pronounce "papyrus" as "pap-perus"? LMAO.
Dude, I always loved Arts & Crafts time in grade school, feeling a little logy after a starchy lunch...AND you're telling me a story, too! How cool. Some things never change. I feel a nap coming on...for real...thx for the memories...
BONUS! It's the perfect Etsy video testimonial!
Were you using Play-doh for your cylinder seal? If so, I wonder if real clay would return a better result?
Soon as you mentioned the name I knew I had seen them before, in various museums. I even had a few (replicas, obviously) as a child. We even made our own in arts and craft class in primary school.
Probably applied some oil to prevent clay from sticking to the cylinder prior to rolling. Basically release oil similar to concrete forms
“Mesopotamian Bling” is a great band name. 😊
you know it is good when you get the tangent cam right at the start!
Seals are still used in parts of East Asia. Documents are first signed in the local language or Chinese; Then a seal is put partially over the signature. This is still used, in the USA, for professional documents. Many states allow ink seals; some states, including, mine requires impression seals, as they cannot be copied in a copier, like ink seals.
So true. You are right. What state are you in?
8:10 it's very possible that they were made by order to a craftsman and finished in detail specific by the owner. Several were found where the type of line involved in the more intricate details (humans, animals, motifs) were different from the simplistic ones (lines, dots, spirals). 2FA from the other day.
Really enjoyed the format of this video
Poorer people who couldn't afford to have a seal made used oblong stones with irregular chunks carved out of them. Those aren't as neat to look at but lots of them have also been found.
Never heard “Pap-uh-ris” always heard “pap-eye-ris”
I dont know how everyone else feels, but I can't handle that background track during the introduction. Its too discordant from what youre saying, and my audio tactile synesthesia makes it feel like I'm watching a ping pong game and youre trying to tell us this while sitting on the table as the game goes around you.
Love these types of videos!
Great video, super interesting subject, loved your hands on segment. You should do more of these.
Hey Richard. 😅
"I'm not saying these two ancient civilizations had contact. ... But I'm not NOT saying it." Has anyone considered that some couple thousand years ago, a cylinder seal washed up on a beach, someone went "this is the coolest thing I HAVE EVER SEEN" and then just copied it on their half of the world
Ahh, I think it would sink
I wonder if there is a link between dyslexia and the stone cutters. Maybe it provided enough selection pressure that people who see things backwards excelled at the craft. Meaning they could provide for their children and pass down their genes.
Well dyslexia is linked to better "3d thinking" or spatial visualization.
So ya. It is probably even older then homo-sapians, going back to making tools long before modern humans, back when we napped our stones and do not appear to have made stone structures
Although there was a wooden structure found that pre-dates homo-sapians, so who really knows what they where fully up to, our most recent ancestors.
“Dyslexia“ is more of a symptom than a condition. There are several characteristics that can lead to this condition.
I have a hereditary characteristic that causes me to be dyslexic. Both of my children and I score below the 1st percentile with regard to left-right sensitivity. So, in my case, I can definitely say that writing backwards is not at all difficult. I used write (in script) backwards and upside down so my stepmother couldn’t understand what I wrote in my journal. When it comes to reading English, it’s a disadvantage because there are several mirror-image pairs in the alphabet. However, there’s a lot of things for which this is actually an advantage.
Interestingly, there are over 2000 commonly used characters in the Japanese language. So far I’ve only found two, さ and ち, which are mirror images. When I write them, I do so in such a way that they are no longer mirror images, but in print, they are often as shown above and I have to stop and think about which character I’m looking at. From what I understand, dyslexia is much less common among native speakers of Japanese than among native speakers of English.
It’s been a dream of mine to find enough time to learn to read Sumerian. Given the amount of information left to discover on the vast quantities of cuneiform tablets, it’d be fascinating.
This is off the usual path for this channel, but I'm totally here for it! I'm low key fascinated by day to day life in the late Stone Age and early Bronze Age. I feel like people forget about those eras, and think of "ancient history" as being ancient Greece and the Roman empire, ignoring the fact that there's thousands of years of civilization and culture that predate them.
"It walks you through history of currency,... and then how cryptocurrency 'solves' those problems"
Are you sure about that?
I've been amazed at the intricate designs of some original Roman or Egyptian Signet rings. One tidbit you left out, is when it came to famous "signatures" like Julius Caesar. They were known. Pliny talked about them, as a rare autograph. But they probably no longer exist (and what would it look like, with Roman numerals?) Most likely, is Caesar "signed" the vast majority of his writings, using a decorative seal or "signet" ring, which no one could forge, except upon pain of death.
Dude, the design mechanism of rolling to get the full image? Flawless, amazing, superb, genius, delightful. Can I send a compliment letter back in time to the inventor?
i like how youtube notifies me of a new video a day after it comes out. I already watched it, because I wrnt looking for it. Joe, YT is F'n with you
I would imagine that the tools used to roll them were often made of wood, easier to replicate and replace as they became worn over time as they were used. That might also explain why the tools themselves are harder to find intact. I can picture them being what is essentially a waxed or oiled spindle or dowel with decorative wood, stone, or metal caps or nubs on each end, to be pinched between the finger and thumb to make it easy to sign with one hand. Perhaps with holes or loops on one end to hang on a string, chain, or hook.
I love your videos.
Those rollers would get oiled or waxed depending on what they were made from. This would act like a release agent and would keep the rollers clean.
I see how this could conceivably be used as part of a movable type system. Kinda like those old date changing ink stamps.
Are you familiar with the Phaistos Disc? Basically a Middle-Late Bronze Age example of exactly that.
Cool piece of history and also a fair take on the basic use case for crypto. 👍
Your smart
Hey Stuart 👋
With the mezoamerican ones, there's also the possibility that they weren't as seals, but something like a decorative piece though it might have been a kind of makers mark. Having roller stamps for more popular designs for pottery or your personal mark for identifying which ones you made could fit there easily enough.
Thanks for all the awesome content!!
Neat. Dunno what it has to do with crypto though, beyond "can be used to identify yourself". I mean, are signatures crypto then? They still use signature seal/stamps in Japan a lot I think, is that crypto?
> I mean, are signatures crypto then? They still use signature seal/stamps in Japan a lot I think, is that crypto?
Yes, it serves the same purpose. Only those stamps can very easily be forged so are a very weak form of proof.
Crypto takes the role of the seal/stamp here, as any time you perform a transaction there's a digital signature attached that only you (as the owner of the crypto wallet) are able to make. It's not optional either, every single transaction is marked with your digital signature. Everyone can audit these signatures, because they're written on a public database that cannot be modified, shut down, and isn't owned by anyone. All transactions on these networks are stored indefinitely, forever. You can trace back every single transaction since the start of these networks. This becomes more important when you realize people attach unique names to their wallets to publicly identify them and all transactions they do.
@@MagusDevon "everyone can audit", provided you wanna download tons of gigabytes and wait ages for that to complete, which is kind of a downside to it heh
My question was "is signature crypto then" not "can signature be used as crypto"
"A is B" doesn't mean "B is A" after all
@@MaakaSakuranbo You don't have to download that if you want to audit. There are a plethora of public blockchain explorers that exist. I could easily send you transaction information to view on a browser of your phone whenever.
If you wanted to verify someone's transactions or on-chain identity on Ethereum you could use Etherscan, for example.
@@MagusDevon Public means you now have to trust the source again
@@MaakaSakuranbo Sure, though the public sources are pretty reputable and there are multiple of them to cross reference. Pretty much every wallet software for example pulls chain information for you to verify with, so you could always use multiple if you're worried about this. Though honestly it's never been an issue and it's really easy to call out so the moment any platform decides to try showing information's different than what's on-chain it'd be immediately called out and they'd obviously lose any financial support they have so it'd be pretty stupid on their part. They can't alter the chain, so it'd be pointless to display incorrect information from it.
If you want your own personal reference, you don't have to download the entire chain data as most blockchains have light nodes that are designed to run on something as simple as a cell phone. You don't need a full node for just reading the chain, you'd only need to download that much for actually running a validator in most cases.
All in all I'm no certain what you're even trying to imply here. The alternative you provided, using stamps to verify, has no easy way to cross reference for forgery.
They still exist in Japan. It's called a hanko (specifically a Jitsu-in), a personal stamp one uses on all official notarised documents, and it is I believe a legal requirement. It's also used in other areas where a signature is required, like at the bank, paying bills, signing for packages etc.
Us gaijin are still allowed to sign our old John Hancock for most things, but I had to make a hanko for official stuff. Every time I use it, I wonder how easy it would be to copy one, but apparently it doesn't happen often (this is Japan we're talking about after all).
@@tonewise2 my #gaijinlife ended 12 years ago. Nice to see nothing much has changed 🤣
I've been planning to watch this video since it was released, but honestly, it's been highly entertaining to watch how many times the thumbnail and title have changed since release, to the point where I've held off watching it to see how many more times it will change before I check it out 😂
Cheers!
1:33 I wanna make a cylinder seal that works on a digital check out thing, so I don't have to sign a terrible signature, I can just roll it on lol
I was just at an archeological museum in Cuenca, Ecuador last week. They had numerous examples of Incan cylinder seals. We were able to try out replicas as well. Speaking of Graham Hancock, they also had headrests that could easily have been identified as Japanese. However, these had come from sites within Ecuador. Coincidence? More parallel thinking? Or had there been some trans Pacific contact as the museum itself hinted at? How about trans Atlantic for that matter? While I admittedly don't know, I think we don't give enough credit to our ancestors and believe there is some evidence for contact between the continents. Most likely it was sporadic and accidental, but then again, maybe not.
There are so many problems with Hancock. "Because they look similar" is not a reason for anything at all. If you want to give credit to ancestors, you can think of how cool it is that a bunch of different intelligent people independently came up with a number of things rather than there just being a one really smart person in one country or something.
There are indications that there were long distance trade routes a lot further back than we think. Even if the peoples didn't meet face to face.
Olive oil for a release agent
There must have been some kind of watermark on the signatures that only a limited number of people knew about. I imagine there would have to be some kind of logistical control, in case a stamp was lost, stolen, counterfeit, key word of the day, watermark of the day. Interesting
Your most interesting video yet. Great research there!!
[skipped filler]
Its pap-eye-russ.
Very informative content. Thank you for your time and knowledge! See you on the next video! Thank you for existing!
Say it with me, Joe, "Puh-pie-russ". lol
Current identity has nothing to do with blockchains. It’s odd that your research lead to that and not “identity providers”. I think you used that to lead into your ad read though and it’s also concerning that your sponsor has blockchain courses and not material on jwt and saml.
Shilling Crypto Joe ?
This is so cool, I can’t believe I’ve never heard of this before. I’ve been like playing with clay as a fun hobby since i was really young and this is just so frkn rad, I wanna make my own seal!!!!
Funny. Just today I was reading about the ancient cultures in that region. And here you are, teaching me about something of that region. Thanks!
First comment‼️ Show me da love ❤️
My first first 😂😂
I was just excited to be first 🤓
I do think “this was the docusign of…” would be a better title though.
❤
Never heard of those things! Good stuff bro.
I so look forward to Mondays because of you Joe, in the same way morning coffee gets me outta bed
Keep up the great work❤
Great video (as per usual). The Graham Hancock head had me laughing. Timing was perfect! 😅
Really interesting! Thanks, Joe.
That Etsy store must be thrilled!
Just finished work, new video out. Let’s go! Great content as per usual :)
Your content is great
1:55 - That's not the U.S. GPO "Seal" as stated that's just the modern "logo" but rather the seal is the long-used mark of authentication and looks quite different.
(I'll attempt to post a link to the seal in a reply below.)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Seal_of_the_United_States_Government_Printing_Office.svg
Weirdly enough, I knew exactly what it is!!!! :) Cylinder seals are so freaking amazing as little works of art!
Suggestion, if I may? Ancient coin production. Another really cool subject!
Great video, Joe...👍
The Tallystick was a neat invention specifically solving the forged ledger issue.
One of if not the most secure ledger systems of human history, deserving of a video!
Been watching your channels for years, thanks for all the great content. Try lightly spraying your wheel with cooking spray or lightly oil it, that should keep the clay from filling it the small details on your signat wheel. Thanks for all the knowledge, from Bourbon Co, Kentucky 🤘
Intresting. I learned something new today. Thank you.
Chalcedoney, Cal-said-knee. I always learn so much here. Ty sir.
1:33 totally thought this was an ad 😂
I love your videos so much. This was neat!!!
Yay more ancient history! Keep them coming!
Yesssss got a joe scott sound clip of him saying “roll it up”
A few days after I first saw this video the day it launched, a good friend posted a wooden cylinder seal she'd gotten I think from Etsy.
It was so clearly along the same lines that in her comments I mentioned it [probably] being a cylinder seal, and provided the link to your/this video.
She was also quite [understandably] impressed with your video.
I knew of these but didn't;t put much thought into what it took to produce the engraving. Great subject!
Well, you should have heated your cylinder seal before using it, this actually makes a bit difference in regards of the imprint. Even 5°C will give you a way more pronounced stamping effect
And those seals are also legal as signatures today, as long as you use a seal or a signet rign to give your very first signature on your ID, as the only thing that makes your signature legally binding is it actually being the signature you use on your ID. Therefore if you use a signet ring to stamp-sign your ID, this signet-ring is your official, legally binding signature ;)
And no, your signature don't need to be your name, it can indeed be [pointing guy][seagull][chariot]straw reed] *g*
The only reason we started to use our names as signatures is that it's convenient the most convenient thing to do
Thank you for another highly interesting video. I appreciate it
Great video. These historical connections to material culture help our understanding of how humans bend and shape reality and our physical world to create a sense of order.
I love that your videos don't sound like you're reading from a script and sounds like you're just talking to us.
This does seem like a much better way to prevent faking than what we use today. The source isn't stored online, the impression is only as good as the source at that moment, there is only one source unless it has been duplicated by the owner. Sounds perfect to me.