Were They Right To Kill It? The Warlords of Draenor That We Never Saw
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- čas přidán 20. 08. 2024
- Blizzard had to make a tough decision. Fully commit to Warlords of Draenor, or cut it short to refocus on Legion. Today we will look at what the full WoD probably would have looked like, and examine weather Blizzard made the right call. Hindsight is 20/20!
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Help keep Hayvens memory alive by checking out his content. He was super passionate about cut content & the dev process, so if you liked this video you'll love his work. czcams.com/channels/jVDQloX4cIpGqpM6mdyD2Q.htmlfeatured
BellularGaming his content is amazing. I miss him
was*
It still is. the content still exists, thereby it's a "is", not a "was"
shh i tried making a dark joke dont get technical bb
some people aren't as open to dark jokes especially when it's about someone like hayven. so don't be so careless with your words in the future just because you're behind a hidden ip adress and a keyboard. you shh bb
WoD can be very easely described: A huge amount of wasted potential and very strange design choices
For some reason I read "choices" as "clothes" and it just made me think of that weird bag-pipe shoulder cloth armor thing and I *shutter*.
WHY did people have to complain about too many Orcs in an Orc expansion? There were planned questlines for Kargath and Blackhand and Alpha Gorgrond looked so awesome..
Because people are stupid. Orcs have been one of the main driving forces of Warcraft's story since day one.
Broxim its like saying there was too much undead in the undead expansion
Because 2 years of Siege of Orgrimmar in Mist of Pandaria which had, Orcs. So for a long time, 3-4 years, all we faced was Orcs.
@@timelordricknmorty8179
Thats My boy, literally was thinking the same thing.
@@Themadhorse Yea cool so thanks to your whining you killed expansion that might have been one of the most interesting ones. People who cried about orcs and garrisons are what killed it.
Thank gd that Blizz is not really listening that much anymore and does what they think is best. Problem is that now they are not listening even in cases where they should, but given what happened when they did everything according to feedback i understand them.
Every night before I go to sleep and every morning after I wake up, I kiss my magically animated portrait of the warlords cinematic, gently pass my fingers through it and whisper "if only..."
If inly it was actually warlords instead of the return of Gul’dan and the green stuff
If only people did not complained or Blizzard did not listened to them. sigh
Yrel secret is about her and Kargath Bladefist and saberon cats before she sent into the mine.
the video cinematic leak in some deep web but not in youtube.
Oh jesus.
That feel when I know the meaning of a sentence I do not want to know about.
You DA, that was an erotic video. Had nothing to do with Blizzard.
"Good kitty" :D
I see you are also a man of art
Petra Meyer went right over your head it seems. NO ONE thinks blizzard had anything to do with that video
Warlords of Draenor was the most depressing expanison to date.
Na mist of panda crap takes the cake
What about Cata?
Neptulon raid ho!
All Expansions after TBC have been a let down. WOTLK took a year to get a decent raid with Ulduar.
Mists of Pandaria was WAY more fun than Warlords ever was. I'm capable of looking passed the asian theme and jovial looking pandaren, and because of that, I think MoP was JUST as good as TBC or WotLK.
Idk man it sounds like the cut features you mentioned would have made garrisons more interesting by choosing their zone, and the capital cities would have given reasons to leave those garrisons. WoD still could have been good if it had its cut content
still the garrison system was flawed system it was like playing mobile games in your MMORPG experience, at lease in Legion they scaled it back a lot
Garrisons IMO really should have been instances area inside a major city, add that and the cut content wod wouldn't have been so bad. I mean if they were in major cities you walk outside and see all the other players their.
Finally back on track with the retrospective videos! Do you think gutting WoD was worth it for Legion?
BellularGaming you used wrong whether in the description :)
BellularGaming gj
This ^ :)
Shattrath should have been the final raid. It was pretty obvious that it was meant to be Legion themed which would have led into the next expansion quite nicely. Tanaan and Hellfire Citadel should have remained Iron Horde themed.
No. I loathe Legion. I hate the legendary system, most dungeons are boring and annoying, too many demons and most wqs are shit. Only thing I like about it is the artifact weapon system and the order hall. The raids are also way shitier than the ones in WoD
I do have to disagree about one thing. I find the Iron Horde to be SO uninteresting. I think the stuff with the plants was way more interesting and to me was the only actual interesting thing IN Gorgrond. I didn't care about the stuff with the Iron Harbor and whatever, this weird plant infestation, along with this undercurrent about the fungus that is slowly growing around the entire continent was VERY interesting to me. I was sad to see that it ended up going nowhere in the main story and was pretty much just a background thing. There's obviously some of it in Gorgrond but there's also a small bit of it in Spires of Arak with the Goblin town. Also related: Spires of Arak is my favorite zone by a landslide. The Arakkoa are great, I loved their story, their history, their voice acting, everything
Arakoa and Naga are my short list of "why aren't these playable races?"
Broken ones, too, if you count them as a race rather than a subrace of Draenei.
What I'm trying to say is that bipedal mammalian races are boring. Do something else.
Shatt got the shaft , it could have been a story line some thing like we got in Suramar . A great looking city area but reduced to a apex crystal daily
the main problem with warlords of dreanor was the lack of content at max level. you literally logged in and had nothing to do except your follower missions and raiding some times. i remember hitting level 100 and looking forward to do daylis for reputation.....nothing.
people say the garrison made WoD so bad. NO! the garrison was actually a really good addition to the game. the only problem was it was *ALL* the content. I mean now in Legion we have the class order hall which is basically a shittier version of the garrison, but no-one cares because we have other content.
the leveling from 90 to 100 was one of the best recieved leveling processes ever. the effort that went into music and design was amazing.I also really liked the theme of the expansion : fighting the native orcs, a mortal threat that fights with primeval weapons and yet can overcome anything with it's iron will. instead of : fighting the biggest immortal threat in the universe with the strongest weapons there are. also spaceships ....and green stuff.
Overall WoD had so much potential which got thrown away by a lack of content.
Actually the biggest immortal threat in the (WoW) universe is the old gods. Sargaras is a reaction to them.
I can't imagine someone looking forward to dailies. I remember how much I loathed dailies since late Burning Crusade when they were invented.
why i didn't bother with this expansion, I played beta felt very disappointing, I wasn't fan of Garrison system and story felt cut or missing, plus most the zones felt "meh" to me unlike Legion they felt more fleshed out and interesting
The old gods are just minions of the void lords, so no the old gods are not the biggest threat. It's also worth mentioning that the void lords themselves are weaker than the titans outside of the void, which is why they need to corrupt a titan world-soul in order to fight them.
Kühn Andreas I agree with this quite a lot. I liked the general concept of the garrisons. The issue was an extream lack of content at 100. Tanaan came too late and didn't really lead up to the potential it could have. It had a tiny storyline and very little actual content (honestly feel the same about Argus). Also, no I don't feel that mythic+ really adds that much to the game. Its still doing pretty much the same dungeon/ raid over again (with very little in the way of a reward). Its a filler and a bland one at that.
Yrel's dark secret? I think I saw that story arc on Pornhub.
AceOfDre well played
I think I did too
yrel's dark secret:
her calling velen her uncle + archimonde being the final encounter of WoD that yrel is a part of.
i'm going out on a limb and saying she was actually the daughter of archimonde
It could also work with the fight text, since Archi spends most of phase 1 trying to get her to give up.
Quite sure Yrel was a planned plot device for Legion too. Just think about the possibilities of her having a link to Archimonde. The whole Argus campaign and the Lightforged Draenei.
Wow, would've been nice if they did that. I'd rather have Yrel than Velen.
I guess the dark secret was that Yrel was a fanatic lightbound after all
Yrel as Archimonde’s daughter would be a great secret. Especially if she never knew.
Sadly the expansion was rushed and that's why it was so unpolished and bad.
Great video.
LeystTV, garrisons ruined it
I completely agree. It made the world feel a lot smaller. Their intentions with the garrisons were good but the execution was bad and made you stay in your garrison all day waiting for a raid or whatever you were doing. The potentials were there but sadly it turned out to be the worst expansion in my opinion.
True, but garrisons dont belong in a game like Wow.... And the follower thing they have now, is just as bad in my opinion.... I know you can i avoid it now, but damn i hope they remove it forever!
LeystTV I’m sure the reason it was rushed so it can releases it alongside the warcraft movie
I agree with you. They should have made the garrison cosmetic only, but that might not even work.
I think this is the only WoD video I ever actually want to see
Marcus Persson and it only took years too late to make
Remember when people said Cataclysm was the worst? Those were the days.
rather be playing Cata then WoD
Isn't nice that each new expansion is worse then the previews one?
I think too many people compare these expansions to WotLK; each expansion has their own merits, and the individual story telling has been great.
To me WoD was a bunch of wasted potential on a good back drop. Cataclysm on the other hand I think they did Deathwing dirty, but narratively it had some strong points along with things outside of raiding to do, archeology alone kept me busy for days on end.
+Elron but we got awesome dungeons in Cataclysm afterwards, I love the heroics, then MoP happened and dungeons were crap again, then WoD happened and dungeons were great again and then Legion broke the chain of good-bad-good and actually had great dungeons as well along with the mythic+ system.
Also MoP is the worst expansion due to it being crap until 5.3 and then the only good things about it being the Raids, dungeons were complete crap from the get-go, dailies were so boring and annoying, initial raids were crap and the timeless isle was an obvious content skip to allow players to go to ToT and then SoO instantly, due to the initial content being garbage. And the PVP was the worst of all time and was actually bad... Also another great thing that MoP brought was the Monk and the Pandaren being a neutral race.
Cataclysm was freaking epic, minus Dragon Soul, PVP was starting to get broken, but was still very good and the fact that they screwed up the barrens and Thousand Needles. On the other hand, the dungeons were great, the raids up to Dragon Soul were great, the zones were great, Vij'ir being the only less good zone. Tanking and Healing in Cataclysm was super fun.
Still, to this day TBC and WotLK are the best expansions overall IMO and they aren't perfect either.
Warlords of Draenor would not have been possible without WOTLK'S "accessibility" meme. So no You can like it all you want but the systems introduced in that game made every subsequent change in the game possible. The community went from a significantly vocal group of long time Blizzard fans to commercial watching normies. Blizzard catered to these people, gave them all of the conveniences they would need to make it in the game socially, and everything that came after was nothing more than an attempt to retain these low IQ motherfuckers for as long as possible. WOD was the breaking point. Legion was NECESSARY to save the game. WOTLK PERMANENTLY FUCKED UP THIS GAME'S SHIT FOREVER
"Chained to their garrison." While it on paper seems like a good idea, I sincerely hope they get rid of all Garrisons and Order Halls next expansion. Along with the mission table. I hate that thing. I do it multiple times a day in game and on the phone. But only because I feel like I have to do it and I hate that feeling.
what we got in legion is great, saddly they are stoping with class indentity theme and going for the faction identity theme in BFA, halls will still be a good place to go back to
Well then, I got good news for you. Apparently, the mission table (or Garrison/Order Hall type of feature in general) will not be returning for BfA.
Although, the interface and tables like that will most certainly be used in Warfronts to build buildings and troops, so at least they will find a good use for all of that.
Why the hell do you feel oyu need to do it i do it just because its great way to get gold with minimum work
Order halls aren't to much of a problem, we just duck in, and duck out. Garrisons were awful, it was like being stuck in a crap 90s amstrad game
I don't feel "chained" to the Legion App. It's a great way while not on my computer to get stuff to level my characters and get some easy gold. Personally, I was hoping they would extend this into the next expansion since I was gone from the game for 5 years and horribly behind on gold. I barely make enough to get another token for the next month to be free.
What? I remember that expansion very fondly. That was the expansion I started doing a lot of heroic raiding. I loved all three of those phenomenal raids. WoD is so underrated.
It's actually very sad to see how all of It was just a mess.
But, to be fair... The entire premise was a mess.
If you think about It, you could just remove WoD and make some random (Or not so random, such as Xavious or, idk, or corrupted jaina, even if wouldn't like that?) open the tomb of Sargeras in Legion and the story would still make sense.
Before the Chronal Spire thing was changed, I made a fun little fan theory that they were the same building, and a time-magic infused mana bomb would explode around the Chronal Spire, sending it falling through the timelines until it landed in Azeroth thousands of years ago, in an explosion that created Deadwind Pass.
That way it would explain the odd magic explosion that created Deadwind Pass, the fact no one knows who built Karazhan, and the fact time works weirdly around Karazhan.
I even toyed with the idea of Garrosh having been there and fighting Prince Malchazzer with Gorehowl before fleeing, leading to the dude having Gorehowl in our Karazhan, where he was sealed.
Well, now we know it was Aegwynn who built Kharazan.
People dont get that Warlords was aborted just after launch. Blizzard was in turmoil, Metzen was working on the movie... They just gave up and started Legion. What we get in WoD was ok, what we didnt get screwed the experience.
Metzen had nothing to do with WoW by that point (even if he did, he only did the story, not the game development itself).
Yeah I overall liked the content WoD gave, only issue was that it lasted at best half of the WoD's time period and that's assuming you're a raider. If they would have been selling sub for half the price, there'd be less of a backlash of the "no content" complains.
I'm late to the party. And I was late to the party to WoD. I did quit WoW at the end of Cataclysm and came back last year, to check Legion out. I had to grind through Draenor, and did a bit of achievement hunting.
Playing WoW during BC was among the best moments of my gamer life, and of my life. I was quite extatic at the idea of going back to Outland. But once there, it took me two hours to realize something was wrong with all this. Quite a shame.
To me, discovering the game in 2017, it felt like Blizzard attempted to cash in the BC (and Warcraft 2) nostalgia, but that something went horribly wrong during the developement.
I should point out that this also explains the presence of Dalaran in Karazhan. I think that the idea was that the Sunreavers and Silver Covenant would continue to have a presence in Warlords of Draenor and that Dalaran would relocate to above Karazhan on the suggestion of Khadgar, who argues that Dalaran's relocation would allow the factions to defend against the Horde coming through Karazhan better.
That is why, in the next expansion, Dalaran is above Karazhan; it had always been planned to be there following the Warlords of Draenor, but it was retroactively justified to be in Karazhan because development had already been done in the Legion's introduction.
I personally love WoD graphic style plus the world felt more alive and vibrant. When you walked into dungeons or raids you felt a atmosphere. I’m happy we are getting WoD timewalking soon
WoD had amazing zones, raids/dungeons and music
if the Iron Horde had attacked the garrison and destroyed it, some people would have been pissed but it would have made for a twist. Have that move us into the central city to set up for a counter attack.
My biggest disappointment was that we never got to see the inside of Karabor - before Illidan turned it into the Black Temple.
warlords of Draenor is a great case study on how to do game development, It shows flaws in the eyes of the customers, but for the developer it could have been a time of hurry and desperation as they were trying to get the next expansion out ASAP. It is an interesting thing to look back upon but at it's face value it failed on both fronts, the reason it failed on the customer side is obvious and beaten to death, for the developer it's a whole other story:
As you said they shafted a raid tier this was to shorten up production time on legion (at least that's what we think) it still took more than a year for legion to come out. It was revealed at gamescom something that was unprecedented, but also showed their desperation to move along. why did it still take that long? I personally think it was because people were working on different systems and had to accommodate.
But all in all this time of WoW's history is on that you want to forget, but also one you want to take experience from.
WoD was the MMO equivalent of anime filler episodes.
WoD was maximum quality with minimum quantity.
Difference is that wod was bad and anime was bfa's cousin
I really really liked Yrel, I am happy she survived and did not die just to show how badass some baddy is.
I hope to see her back ^^
@@saphi2716 she is a fanatic now, are you happy ? :D
@@gamefan987 just because Blizzard loves to monkey paw wishes and have a hard on for the horde, Yrel was villain batted so horde could have AU brown orcs.
@@Shiirow no, Yrel was a villian because writters at Blizzard are lazy bastards who needed to get rid of alternaye Draenor "oh look they all got crazy, also the world is dying, story done".
There was also another continent in warlords that, according to various in game smidgets of lore, was an ogre homeland. It might be gone now but in the bottom left of the map of draenor, you can see a land mass that almost looks like wear and tear on the map, but looking closer it's clearly land. There was also a placeholder island in the bottom right side that wasn't mapped at all. Might still be there.
I remember a bunch of changes to certain characters that show their story taking an abrupt end. Kargath and Cho'gall originally survived the Highmaul raid and presumably would have had something to do with the Shattrath raid. Ner'zhul's story in Shadowmoon Burial Grounds was somewhat disconnected and ended abruptly and there was hints of something void-related going on in Skettis so it's very likely Shattrath was going to be a void-themed raid with Cho'gall and Ner'zhul leading an AU Twilight's Hammer cult with Kargath likely a member as well. Maybe Gorefiend was supposed to be part of that as well but they stuck him in Hellfire Citadel instead without much explanation.
1:32 He must be from a wierd timeline that Prince MelonCar
To be honest WoDs content was actually pretty good. Its just that there was barely any content to begin with
I feel the same way... Definite lack of content but what was there wasn't bad. Same thing as Pandaria, most people have a hate-on for that expansion and it was one of my favourites, despite it's flaws (which every expansion has) it shined for me..
They had so much to work with and creative license to do almost anything... shame how little they actually did with it.
The Iron Horde actually did pose a *very* visible threat ingame...
They brought us WoD.
Hey Bellular, I dont know if you are gone read this but i have to say (and this is for most of us) that the time you put in your video's haven't gone unnoticed. your video's are always great to watch and you are always straight to the point. Keep up the good work! :D
1:32 Prince WHO? Prince... Melencar? Do you mean... Prince Malchezaar?
I would do an expansion between MoP and Legion much differently. I would keep a premise of Garrosh breaking free and running to an alternate timeline, but I would make many more of those timelines. I'd focus on Kairoz and his plan od creating an infinite number of Hordes from different timelines. Much more Infinite Dragonflight, much more crazy time jumping. Maybe Wrathion as well. Kairozdormu is one of those shafted characters, killed off-screen.
Dear lord no. The time jumping bs was one of the worst aspects of the WoD story, adding MORE time jumping shit would only further confuse and water down plot lines and the story, not make it more interesting.
There is no real satisfaction in killing Guldan if there are 500 variations of him that we're battling.
True, especially about the satisfaction of killing thing, but I still think it could perhaps be an unexored zone with important potential if mastered well.
Adding onto this, my theory concerning Tanaan and Shattrath goes thusly:
We would have been in Tanaan, fighting the IRON horde. Besieging the citadel from the east, gathering resources and the site of the Dark Portal (which would not have been there or would have been under construction) our new garrison spot (or a neutral hub, something like that). Patch 6.2 would have brought news from Shattrath, that the city had fallen and was taken by the Iron Horde, and we would have to shift our focus, drawing forces out of Tanaan into Talador.
The circumstances of the raid would be your standard fare, fight some orcs and some goblin mechs, maybe a repurposed Draenei Guardian with Iron Orc Spikes on it, possibly something to do with a Naaru depending on if they wanted to take that route. One wing in the lower city, one wing in each of the tiers (aldor/scryer in BC, possibly a fighting wing and a study wing, so, heavy hitters then weird mages), possibly with a little bit of demonic influence because foreshadowing.
The final fight would've been against Grom, and when we got him to, say, 10%, he realises that his Iron Horde isn't what it's cracked up to be. In a cut scene, Yrel (who would have been guiding us through Shattrath along with Durotan, who would have been bonding through the 're-take shattrath' campaign) would deliver him a big speech about how the Iron Horde alone was Not Good, because Look, all these races working together could take it down, and Grom begins to have a change of heart. THEN in swoops Gul'dan with a bunch of Iron Horde, 'rescuing' Grom whilst summoning a mythic only boss, a demon from our past. Perhaps instead of fighting him in Tanaan, this is where Kazzak would have turned up, Ultra Lord Kazzak. When he dies, he would deliver a foreboding message like 'I may fall, but We are Legion' so everyone could go 'ohhhhhhhh snap he totes told us about the next expansion' when Legion was released.
In the final patch, we get taken back to Tanaan which has become all super fel and green like it currently is, and our task is now to rescue trapped people from before, re-take the Chronal Spire which would be a big sticking point because giving Gul'dan number 2 access to the timelines would have been SuperNotGood. Then we go into the Citadel, everything's hunky chunky, Archimonde dies the second weakest death he's ever died, and legion progresses on.
As for Farahlon and the Ogre nation to the south (which didn't get a mention in this vid, but it was kinda sorta mentionned somewhere iirc), well, Farahlon could have been something Timeless Isle-y, and the ogre nation could have tied into Highmaul somehow, since that instance always seemed a little short to me. Coulda given us Ogre females. And now you're thinking about ogre females, and if you skipped to the end of this massive ramble, will be confused as all heck. Ogre females.
I was super pumped over the idea of warlords. From a story perspective it looked like it had a lot to give. "Orc Fatigue" was not a real thing. Between cataclysm and mists there was one instance that was occupied heavily by orcs. The issue there was the alliance wasn't getting a ton of spotlight in general but that stems from jaina and theramore being a book and not gameplay.
Warlords should have been better and it's easily going to be the expansion I look back on with the most disappointment.
Really reminds you of just how disappointing WoD was. So much potential, so much pain.
Sad this xpac was so lacking in stuff Draenor is pretty interesting in visuals and lore. Wasn’t blizzard planning on quick expansion coming out yearly? Could WoD bern a victim of that? Well, I never got my spore whales. My guess on Yrel’s secret is in the main timeline she is some evil character.
It was victim of this dumb idea and backlash that it got from idiots who complained about the fact that game focuses on Orcs for too long.
I just wish they'd fill us in on what they had originally planned for Yrel, I may play WoW for a variety of reasons but one of my favorite things has to be the characters and their various backgrounds and motivations, such as in WotLK when you had that quest chain in Icecrown that showed, more or less, how Arthas became the Lich King from burning all the ships in Dragonblight to the indiscriminate slaughter of his own men in Icecrown itself.
Had they not waffled on the flying issue and had come up with Pathfinder (if they had to do it that way) from the beginning, the pacing would have been better since people would know what to work on from day 1.
Garrison could have been a quest hub, but not central to everything. (I actually wrote up a wholly reimagined garrison system somewhere). What may have made it more fun for people?? Customization. It would have been just for fun - like transmogs or battle pets, but I think would have added much to the garrison, making it actually FUN rather than just a place to sit. Imagine being able to get items to place into the garrison (you could toggle to "customize" mode and you would be able to see where you could place objects - kind of like the Archeology room, but garrison-wide, with MANY choices). You'd be able to get items from crafting, gathering, faction reputation (both in Draenor and older content), dungeons, raids, world objects (like chests or rare mobs) all over the world.
Imagine tailors being able to craft rugs and tapestry. Imagine herbalists herbing and instead of just Khadgar's Whisker, you'd get an exotic tree that you could plant in your garrison). Factions, such as the Kirin Tor or Golden Lotus might let you get banners, flags,and unique decorative item connected with their culture. Run Zul'Gurub for a cool Troll mask to hand in the garrison. In fact, there could be SETS the way we had mog sets too. And it's nice that we have the guild banner to have outside, but how about hanging on the inside of our Town Hall? OK, it's not Guild Housing, but it could have looked like it.
While I get that this wouldn't have satisfied everyone - people who would prefer more story or challenging content wouldn't be happy with this, but one of the best thing they put in the game to extend the usefulness of old content has been Tranmog. And oddly enough, one of the most fun I had with the garrison was . . . the MUSIC ROLL. And you know, they could have added more of those as well.
am i the only one that actually liked the garrison system?
I think we can pretty resoundingly argue that Blizzard still haven’t solved the systems problems from WoD. They’ve just replaced them with further flawed systems. Who can honestly say they enjoy fishing for Legendary items and praying to RNJesus that it’s a good one? Or endlessly grinding artifact power to unlock their 3rd tier Crucible traits?
I see the same problem happening with Battle for Azeroth too. How much actual replay value will there be in these Warfronts and island hopping adventures? It sounds like another Scenarios feature from MoP that everyone will ignore. The trailers for Battle were all features, no story, and no promises for better systems in place. I’ll blatantly say that I’m losing my faith in Blizzards ability to put forth meaningful content and quality gameplay experience.
MoP scenarios were much better than Island Expeditions.
BellularGaming it was actually stated by someone else that the Shattrath Raid was originally the End Raid but it didn't make it in due to the fact that Hellfire was going to be an Iron Horde raid in Tanaan and Shattrath the Raid with Archimonde as the end boss.
Bellular talks so clearly the CZcams subtitles can understand him.
I had bought the WOD Collector's edition..... Feelsbadman
The WOD leveling zones were beter than the legion leveling zones !
I think what hurt the expansion the most was the sudden shift in design mid-alpha. And it seems most of it was due to "orc fatigue" concerns. As much as I love botani and what we did get in Gorgrond, I think it should have stayed all Iron Horde, and kept the botani stuff for Farahlon and/or Tanaan.
And yes, they shouldn't have tied so much to the garrison, or make other players actually show up, like they do in the class halls now. Yeah, the phasing would be weird with the different buildings, but at least you could see people going about their business, running from building to building or picking up their herbs.
I don't even play the game now but i just love listening to you talking about wow while watching the scenery and listening to wow music. It kinda feels nostalgic. You should just make some video talking about some funny and nostalgic memories you have in wow
Drah-nor.
_Drah-nor._
_D R A H N O R._
Also, lmao Prince _Meloncar._
I really miss Yrel :
At least Cataclysm had a centralized theme, the Elements are against us, the Twilight Cult and Deathwing seek to break apart our world
Though the areas may have been very distinct, and the zones scattered across the world, I always felt it was the most interesting of the expansions, as the places we visited weren't that far from the others that we had went to in the past (felt actually in the game world, versus apart from it)
Warlords gave me whiplash, one moment I'm fighting Orcs, Pale Thingies, Plant People and Bugs, Birds, More Birds, Giant Cats?, Random Demons and Warlocks, and Various Wildlife.
It was all over the place, in a worse way than Cata.
The lack of Vul’jin is rough given his quick end in Legion.
Pls do a new intro, the current one is really laggy, makes at least just me not feel well. Otherwise great work and videos Bell
I'm pretty sure it's a timelapse, basically just a fast forward - But I agree. It looks like horrible framerate :)
it is probABLY bad render
to make it simple Draenor to me was one of the worse expansions ever made for this game so far. And where legion did a beautiful comeback on want me to play all day long again which is good.
Marvel Underground Legion wasn’t delayed, they took their time to *MAKE SURE IT WASN’T ANOTHER WOD*
cata is still the worst =)
What? Ive had more friends quit WoW in Legion that WoD
Legion feels almost like 2 expansions,about half way thru WoD they said "Fuck this" and got a huge head start.
Except the World revamp,which has made questing 10x more better,and actually put Detail into their questlines,which actually started in Wrath,but wasnt really expanded upon until Cata.
Here's how I would have handled WoD (although I think the whole expansion was a bad idea):
6.0 -- As-is, although players enter Draenor through the Chronal Spire. Tanaan Jungle is open, but there's little to do, and it's protected/patrolled by extremely powerful mobs.
6.1 -- Add Farahlon as new world content, Shattrath as second raid tier.
6.2 -- Add Tanaan Jungle as new world content. Add 5.3-style content in Blasted Lands and Swamp of Sorrows. (Plus new dungeons and a battleground)
6.3 -- Add Siege of Stormwind as third raid tier. The final boss is Grom. This is where the Iron Horde offensive ends.
6.4 -- Add Hellfire Citadel as the fourth raid tier. The final boss is Archimonde. Also, include post-Iron Horde content to wrap up their plot and integrate them into the main storyline.
Good video though I disagree about Yrel and Maraad and where Blizz originally wanted their story to go. Makes Maraad's death scene even more heart wrenching when he says "In the light, we are one..." he wasn't talking about everyone who uses the light being one, but that he and Yrel specifically would be reunited one day.
Also, as far as cut content, don't forget the Ogre continent that was shown at Blizzcon on the lower left portion of the Draenor world map that was also supposed to have content. Add that and Faralon, another raid (Shatt) and remove the reliance on our garrisons and WoD all of a sudden becomes a much better expansion. Better than Wrath? Probably not but at least we wouldn't have felt cheated out of our money.
I can’t really agree with you there Belluar.
1. They could’ve stoll changed it so that Tanaan would’ve been a Iron Horde headquarterd, with no demons. Making the Irod Hord finally actually feel threatening.
2. Along with that, they could’ve extended the content with Fahralon, adding even more content. And also making a Hellfire raid where we kill Grommash and other Iron Horde villains.
3. After this, we could’ve got other Garrison locations, to basically extend our reach over Draenor which fits pretty well with the Iron Horde storming out of Tanaan. New buildings, and having to defend your garrisons from the Iron Horde in some sort of scenario would’ve added even more content.
4. Shattrath could’ve been the final raid. Legion themed and with some great legion characters like Archimonde.
This was just something i brainstormed right now so it’s not fleshed out at all, but you can atleast see how they really could’ve extended WoDs lifecycle so easily. By not putting so much work on Legion during WoD, they could’ve easily made so much more content. The leadership from Blizzard during WoD is just mind-boggling...
Okay, what's Yrel's secret? I must know now.
I have an anonymous source at Blizzard that can confirm it's canon :)
What the hell? Why? Just why!?
I think she was supposed to be Archimondes daughter.
yeah its this, she's archimondes daughter.
Man that makes a whole lot of sense, archimonde would have had bigger stakes than just being tired of kil'jaedons planning. It would have made him feel more like he's supposed to be there and not just be tacked on! Yrel would have had a complete story arc, but since blizzard probably had the option of cutting her story or thralls, they went with her...
Man raids in WOD were amazing, I didn't feel the lack of content cause didn't have that much time to play. But I did felt the need for shatratt city to be a thing.
To me, the single biggest miss in WoD was how they built up the Iron Horde to be the "Big Bad" of the expansion...but then once Hellfire opened, they just literally vanished. Just...vanished. We went from "we have to stop the Iron Horde" to "oh hai, we're the Burning Legion" out of nowhere.
I really wanted to see more of a transition here instead of a whole blindside and transition that didn't fit into the overall story arch. It just seemed like they wanted to get Legion across more than anything else.
HUMONGOUS WHAT?
Warlords of Draenor was a computer virus we couldnt remove
LOL Luis Camacho
Luis Camacho but its gone now.
What they should have done with the Garrisons, is make *one* Big Garrison per side, with every Building present. Then the Player just gets Peons that he can send to a limited number of Buildings(so like 2 Big, 2 medium and 3 Small Peons).
That means there is one Huge Garrison where you see all other players running around>
Then the Player should be more like a Captain of sorts, with his own Team and not the General.
There could be a Forrest where there are Monsters the Player can kill and then Herb instead of that Garden, and a Mine where there are Monsters the Player can kill and Mine.
Instead we got that Place with no reason to go out of with World Quests that are not Rewarding.
Best X-Pac for 1 reason. The brokenness of Gladiator stance. Loved every minute of it.
I really liked Warlords of Draenor. Yes im the only one on the planet that did. I like the story, the quests,the zones are probably the best in WoW, way better than Legion. Only a few retro zones (perhaps) are better. Im only sad how they didnt stick with the expansion, and try to fix it. Typical behavior.. leave the sinking ship instead of trying to fix it. Grr.
The leveling was good, the raiding was the best is had been to that point. But aside from those 2, there isn’t even really an expansion going on. There’s zero content.
I liked it too
I liked WoD for its world, art, music, and theme. It simply failed because there wasn't much to do. It had solid questing, dungeons and raids, but not enough replayability or content.
>Complaining about Orcs in an expansion about Orcs.
Umm... wat
I think they ran into a problem that they wanted Gul'dan to feel like the threat he definitely was...but they also had to, at the same time, try to make the Iron Horde feel like a threat, especially since Gul'dan kicked off Legion. I think it was also a victim of them trying several new things like the garrisons and not just having a story that is zone-specific, but stories that arc over the whole expansion. While I'm not an expert, I don't think even Wrath felt like it did that. Sure, you were encountering the Lich King in several zones, but each one essentially had its own story that may or may not have had any impact more than a breadcrumb quest to do with the next zone.
This final raid could've been with Shattrath being the heart of the raid with Yrel and her crusade to unite Draenor adding Mag'har Orc Paladins etc.
Please dont talk about WoD, i want to pretend it never happened...
wod was terrible. that was not the only issue. not at all.
the issue was that the garrison system had everything there at one place and you would never need to leave it to go out to the world to get anything. you want to farm potions? oh perfect, here's a alchemy building and it will build it even faster for you and support your profession. you need more resources for alchemy or jewelcrafting/blacksmithing? oh perfect, here's a mine and a garden for you to have a steady income of it without any need to leave it and farm out in the world. oh you wanna get more resources? perfect, let the followers do it for you and go out in the world for you while you stay in your garrison. oh you need more gear? perfect, here's a follower system and a shipyard system that will give you free chests with gear from the latest raids you're doing just so you could stay at home even more.
another issue was the fact that the lfr grind for legendary ring was horsesht. just grind after grind through lfr. oh you wanna stay away from lfr? too bad, here's a ring you need to farm through lfr many many times because its required by everyone if you want to raid. factor this into the 12month wait for legion after patch 6.2. the leveling experience was awesome, the max level experience was awful.
To be fair, random bgs on my frost dk with 23% versatility in pvp zones running Rune Tap and Death Siphon, was some of the funnest gameplay I've had in this game in a long time. That being said yeah end game was kinda blah
WoD was another step at killing the sense of community ;/
i agree completely, i was SO HYPED while leveling, seeing familiar faces, really cool zones, very good lore, Highmaul was awesome aaaaaaaaand done. WoD ended for me on Highmaul. No content, stupid garrison system where everything was handed to you.. thats not fun.
To me, the only thing they did right was prenerf gladiator stance. I always wanted a sword and board and they nailed it. then they nerfed it, although it was still playable. Then legion came and delet'd glad from the game. I was most disappointed
Warlords of Draenor was the best expansion ever created.
Garrosh did nothing wrong.
He really was Thrall's Monster. Garrosh still went too far, but Thrall was hugely responsible for what he became.
That's not how it goes. Thrall put too much faith in Garrosh but Garrosh was not a child and at no point in our meeting him was he a child. He made his decisions and he alone is responsible for them.
Thrall cheated in the duel (by using magic), he disrespected orc tradition and yet no one is making him responsible.
I didn't mind WoD except for the fact that after a little bit of time there was not much to do other than level alts.I was really sad we never got the railroad throughout all of the zones. I also wanted a more flushed out Ogre story line.I think it would have also been pretty awesome if Hellfire Citidal was a raid where we were buying ourselves time to escape back to Azeroth because we ended up getting our asses hand to us after the legion took control of the Iron Horde.
The number one complaint I heard over and over was huge content drought and if the Shattrath raid was there it would've gone a long ways towards making people happier with the expansion. Sure, the garrisons would've still been as bad as they were, but nobody could complain about 14 months of nothing.
I take anywhere from 6-18 months off every xpac since WotLK. Just gets so boring grinding over and over to the point that I'm not even excited a new raid is coming out anymore and I'm ready to take a break again probably until battle for azeroth or just before it. It's not fun anymore
If you don´t have fun playing a game, why do you keep playing it?
I take a break when the fun stops and come back when be content comes out
I agree. Usually I play to either level an alt or to play through the current XPAC story(mostly, anything that isnt a raid). That way i I can keep having fun without feeling like I am gonna burn out from the game, ultimately causing me not want to play what so ever.
Yeah but I currently have 13 110s I have one of everything and a second druid to boot. I want don't want more alts
WoD made me hate Ion Hazzikostas.
Eric Lincoln why? He was the raid fight lead designer, the only part of WoD that is widely accepted as good
Clay Wells didn't he become lead designer mid way thru
dat boi I think so yeah, but all the raids and fights were designed by then.
Warlords of Draenor was the expansion of lost opportunities. And it saddens me because I have loved the major characters of Draenor since the original Warcraft RTS games. At least Gul'dan received the send-off that he needed in Legion.
I liked the Primals and the Breakers content, but I agree that it overshadowed the threat of the Iron Horde. Orgrim should have been a more complex character, he was not a mindless follower and while loyal would have fought as he wanted. They should have made him mind controlled or something to explain that bs.
So this is what i'm thinking we do progressive classic servers that as we go add servers for each xpac and when we get close to WoD they add some story based content to fill out what we were missing.
sami besbes true i guess still i think preserving each instance (by xpac) of the game would be an interesting idea obviously not all at once but over a few years maybe it's to much to ask
Kills the point of making a classic server.
You wanted classic - You get classic.
No rebalancing of classes, no bug fixes (Wall climbing), no talent-revamp to make it look more costumisable than it actually is, no model updates, no added content, no Tmog, no challenge modes, no mythic versions, no dungeon finder, no lfr, etc etc.
Enjoy the classic for what it was: A broken unbalanced grindfest of stupidity that we all loved because it was new, the start of an adventure, and frankly humans overall behaved less entitled and douchey and hence the community acted a tad better than they do today.
sami besbes I want a legacy server for Mists
Manicca im fine with just about every legacy server being untouched assuming they do legacy servers for each xpac that said i think WoD as an xpac to a massive shaft
Manicca this wasn’t about changes to classic, *it was about DIFFERENT legacy servers* geez, jump to conclusions, much?
Eh I put cata as the least likely remembered wow expansion. It changed maps on azeroth that upset older players who remembered them, had a terrible battlegrounds that people rarely even know today, a villian that was barely involved and despite the goblins, worgen and 2-3 new areas nobody even remembers it today. It was also the ONLY expansion to increase your level only by 5 (MoP Had to add 5 if only to fix cata's mistake) and even the dungeons are forgotten now. The heroic is literally the same as the low level dungeons but with maybe 1-2 new bosses; and it made auto queing a staple in wow (which can be good but at this point people started to stop talking to one another and just farm dungeons over and over for leveling).
Not to mention they removed lots of quests, some that gave items you cannot get any more (like the quest to see ghost vendors for rare weapons) and legendary weapons are impossible to get now; despite tbc still having some. Cata pretty much tried to removed vanilla wow from retail; which you can see they're trying to bring back. Granted this is just personal opinion, but my own interest in wow started to die at cata; I even gave it chance and made a goblin, but still felt they removed some important things for the excuse of change.
Psycho Doodle I love cataclysm :D was lots of fun for me.
I'll be honest here, it isn't the worst at least in terms of fun. It was still an expansion you can enojy and I never said it was all bad; that being said compared to many other expansions its the most forgettable. I can barely remember any dungeons or raids from it if timewalking didn't remind me. I remember cho'gal and the twilight hammer but that's about it. Hyjal was already made for a leveling zone in vanilla but cut beforehand so cata didn't even make that originally. That and it bloated the caverns of time with the final raids of cata.
The caverns of time did stories of the past so you can enjoy those battles that came before. So why do we have 3 raids (fun raids but still) where it's taking place in the current cata time with modern thrall and the rest? I thought the caverns of time was about raids in the past not present XD Granted that's a personal gripe but; cata doesn't stand out to me as much as the others. Most of the time it makes me wish I could play the content they removed rather than added. But that's just me.
Psycho Doodle Cata heroics at launch were the best thing ever. Then nerf hammer happened :/
I agree. The nerfing ruined a lot of challenge in wow (personal opinion) however cata was the expansion it all started at. It wasn't the source and had some great and fun ideas (I like the naga areas) but over time it got worse and worse and faded. A lto of key places I used to hang out at with friends before city attacks were changed by cata and again cata had some fun areas (I like the goblins starting zone a lot) today it's forgettable. I couldn't even find the battleground it had until I walked into it by accident.
Psycho Doodle I personally liked the rework of the world and questing in cata because it was a breath of fresh air. However, I do kind of miss the pre-cata questing areas too.
I got my fair share of draenor when I came back in legion. During wod I was thoroughly invested in my followers and garrison and I loved them so much.
I got my money's worth and doing shipyard and tanaan was fun for me, even though the loot was not relevant. I especially love the free pet upgrade with each tier 3 garrison on alts. The crafted weapons are insane for my alts, and having a lot of characters helps me craft.
Legion will have very little to offer me for bfa and I'm chained to all those crafting quests.
Wod had the best balance for casuals though sadly I discovered destiny : taken king and I was out for a year. Wod needed the app integration legion has
I think what happened with WoD relates to the changes in the development process and teams. They had for years talked about trying to avoid the year long gaps between expansions and never delivered, having likely always run up against the clock, never gaining ground. In order to gain ground, and give themselves space to work on that promise, something had to be sacrificed. WoD was that sacrifice.
Kinda infuriating , if you think about it. Blizzard is a billion dollar company, makes sh*tloads of money ,just from WoW only. Let's just take the money wow's making. Don't tell me ,that they can't afford some new game designers, writers etc of they wanted to, to make anything they want in game. I can't really accept that, when dev's say they have ran out of time, this won't be made for launch....hell, just booster your crew and make it done, don't give out half baked expansions, like WoD. I know making the servers and the game run takes lots of money, but still,they could afford literally anything they want nowadays.....they could release BfA by spring if they really wanted to, just expand the crew who work on the xpack.
You can't just hire people midway development to finish the job. It really isn't that simple.
So following Wotlk every other expansion has been in shit state. This worries me for Battle for Azeroth, hopefully they can break this trend
Edit: I should probably clarify what I meant, I mean that every other expansion as in one great expansion followed by a bad one. Wotlk was fantastic, Cata was weak, MoP was fantastic, Warlords was garbage, Legion was amazing, Battle for Azeroth was... if you know what I mean. TBC and Wotlk seem to be the exception to this :)
Hardly. Mists, despite ridicule some parties aimed at it, was solid and quite content rich, and legion is easily the best expat since Lich King in terms of story and development cycle. I'd even argue that Cata did a lot of smart and even necessary things to improve the core game, even if its endgame grind lacked. It's not like the game has died despite some people's seeming wish it had. The day wow goes free to play is the day I'd dig it's grave
Jay Wingate MoP is my favorite expansion right next to Wrath.
Senella what your talking about legion so far been a pretty good expansion
Senella
Mop and cata are amazing
Wod sucks
Legion is fun
Bfa seems fun
Mop was good.
There was only one thing you didn’t cover...
*The Races/Classes*
_Originally,_ Garrosh was supposed to be _banished to Outland,_ rather than escape to Draenor. He was supposed to (with the help of Kairoz) _resurrect the old warlords, and rip pieces of Draenor from the twisting nether to reform Outland._
The two races were _Mo’arg_ for the Horde _(actually Gan’arg though)_
And _Ethereals_ for the Alliance.
_The Demon Hunters were also meant to be a class as well._
Unfortunately, the entire story was *scrapped* and replaced with the current WoD we have today. As well as a lack of Race/Class that was regularly added in each expansion.
Interesting info. Where did you get it? I'd like to read more on it sometime.
Steven Doolittle www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1381172-Real-Warlords-of-Draenor-Leak-Inside
i.imgur.com/qg4zWmd.jpg
*”The ORIGINAL story for the expansion was that Garrosh was banished to Outland but managed to get a artifact of Nozdormu. He used the artifact to summon the great heroes of the Horde and then 're makes' Draenor with the artifact pulling in new landmasses that just tears things up more. This was later scrapped for time travel.”*
Considering this guy *_leaked pretty much the entire expansion,_* I have a feeling that he also had information on the _scrapped story,_ and when added with the _insider screenshot_ of the races and class it is very likely the direction it was going, makes sense with the whole *_Race + Class_* thing they had going, especially with the *”Yearly Expansions”* thing they had planned
There are probably other sources where you could read up on it and stuff, but I just got my sources as my indicator
Tbh, i liked wod leveling, zones, music and raids far more than the current ones
What about the zangarmarsh area? based on everything that is there in game, it really seems like there was supposed to be some content there that never was. There is also a bunch of "off shore" stuff I think it was off the north side of Gorgrond (I can't recall been too long since I have been out there) such that I really think they were planning some form of underwater content at one point or another and it just never happened.
I love the theme of WoD, I wish it would have been better as an xpac. The opening cinematic is still my favorite until the BfA cinematic came out.
Really good video. Very interesting perspective. So much of WoD was flawed from the get go - everything from plot to systems to mechanics. The raids were about the only good things in WoD which makes it disappointing that a raid was cut but we're benefiting now from having "bonus" lead time for Legion.
The entire Ogre Empire was waiting across the sea so they could have sent us to a bit of that if they needed but I think more a phased Tanaan becoming all Fel would have been the plan.
Thank you for talking about the Gorgrond changes. Do you think the the missing Everbloom, and Laughing Skull (broken horn village), and the Druid encampment content, would have formed an additional patch? Possibly a Farahlon raid.
Warlord's had one of the most beautiful premises that made me fanboy erratically, yet its endgame and development issues really shot me down hard :(
But hell, seeing Grommash Hellscream (even if it was alternate timeline version of him) was one of the best moments
I think there was a quest n the beta for WoD where we help Yrel become an Exarc, I was surprised when I went through on my ally toon and didn't get to see that quest
love your channel Mr Bellular, you're so insightful on WoW being as I am a cataclysm baby and still miss out on a few things. keep up the good work
I will argue that the garrisson system actually has the most potential of all of the WoD systems.
If done correctly would it have been fantastic, people having something to build and work on.
But it would have to be changed massivly.
1: more costumization.
2: No herbs or "working buildings" in the garrisson (or at the least, nothing as big as that, perhaps tiny buffs?)
3: That fucking table.
It could have been great... if made properly.
Really great and thought-provoking video, good job man!
WoD of course was the expansion I personally took an extended break from the game, partly because I couldn't raid and partly because the content wasn't engaging. And that's the core of my disappointment with the expansion.
The pitch was SO COOL! A return to those classic characters from Warcraft 2 and it's expansion, seeing them fully fleshed out and a chance to adventure through the orc home world without too much of legion influence pressing down on it, and having such a fresh direction with the game. And all of it felt kind of shattered on the back of focus-testing and overreactions to community feedback left and right. And a shoveled-in core mechanic nobody asked for. My problem is with the untold stories, fully. All of these characters, especially Y'rel and Orgrim should have been given more, and deeper. With all honesty the two warlords who got their share properly were Blackhand and Ner'Zhul, they had a lot of story presence and a good sendoff. All the others got kind of rushed out of the way.
Beautiful promise, never fulfilled. I really think Blizzard at least should get an audio drama out for Y'rel and the others, just to remedy the loss of such promising stories.
Yrel is presented briefly in the Mag'har orc unlock questline as a villain.
Despite all its flaws, I will always love WoD for its epic soundtracks