Let’s talk about fare evasion (in New York City)
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- čas přidán 19. 06. 2024
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Fare evasion or fare cheating is alarmingly rampant in New York City. The numbers are staggering. Even if you don't jump the NYC subway turnstiles yourself, it would be shocking to know if you've never seen 👀 this phenomenon happen. So let’s talk about fare evasion on the New York subway. Who exactly are the fare evaders? And what are we suppose to do?
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Report of the Blue-Ribbon Panel on MTA Fare and Toll Evasion → bit.ly/3qbYVeg
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I encourage people to read the document that Thea references…lot of good information that challenges/refutes common beliefs. For example: fare evasion rates are higher on buses than buses than the subway. The largest percentage of fare evasion on the subway is through the emergency exit, not the expected ‘turnstile jumping”. Read it and form your own opinions.
Yes, that was what I saw. I actually saw very little turnstile jumping, it was going through the emergency exit.
The people who don't pay enter thru the back door. As for the SBS. I use them and I've yet to be questioned. And why are they called SBS when they stop at every bus stop?
@@jameskerner7782 they don't. At least not the ones I've taken. The ones I've taken run adjacent to local lines and skip every other stop or so
*I still need that emergency exit to be there, thanks.*
They need to redesign the emergency exits to fix this. Perhaps a long corridor with at least two one way doors or agents enforcing that the doors are not misused
If you see someone evading fares, no you didn’t.
Walking is still free
Same with plate covers. I got no respect for NYC and plenty of it for mass non compliance.
Pathetic
Exactly
Been in nyc for 5 days… almost every time I’ve gotten on the train multiple people just didn’t pay. I am shocked
There's also the issue with Student/Unlimited MetroCards where the turnstile takes your fare while not letting you through. You swipe, says some read error, and then you try again, and says "just used." No one gonna wait 15 minutes for the card to become useable again
this has happened to me too many times
It also sucks when you use a card with preloaded fare and it charges you twice because the gate didn't open properly the first time
Yea that's the other thing. A lot of the teenagers who jump over turnstiles or go through the emergency exit aren't actually "not paying" the fare because their MetroCard is a free pass from the start. So that's why I don't understand why people make it a big deal when teenagers "evade the fare."
Bro this happened to me and there was no one manning the kiosk so I hopped the turnstile and an officer almost gave me a ticket. His advice? Ask the person at the kiosk...
What's not talked about enough are the times riders get double charged for their fares. I've lived in NYC my entire life, so this has happened to me MANY times: once, I had just refilled my Metrocard and had put enough for two rides; I go to swipe my card for the first time and the fare reader says 'Go' and '0 rides left.' I've gotten charged for rides that should have been transfers (for example, taking the subway and transferring to a bus 30 minutes later). One day last year I was running around the city using the subway and realized that I had been double-charged at some point because I should have had enough on my Metrocard to not worry about refilling it, but somehow ended up one ride short. The most common is when people have trouble swiping at one turnstile and move to another: it's recommended you don't do that because you might have been charged already at the previous turnstile, but a lot of people don't know that. And people have reported being double charged by OMNY, or being charged by OMNY when they were paying with a Metrocard. The MTA always talks about how much money they lose from fare evasion, but I wonder how much they make from people being double-charged.
When the “Metrocard” first came out the turnstile didn’t tell you how much was left on the card, so you swiped it said “insufficient funds” and you threw it away even though it may have been just short of one fare.
Pennies add up, and MTA made a bundle on that!
because I'm only 5'3", I evaded fare by duck sliding under the turnstyles of the PATH trains for years on end from Jersey City to New York, while I was homeless. I was caught only a few. It helped me so much to get around. It's so expensive for poor people.
the funny thing is is that the sheer amount of resources spent on preventing all this evasion could be used to make the system free or much lower cost
None of the proposed solutions are very expensive at all
@@brandonk.4864 It would cost billions to install new gates. U must have Elon Musk money
@@jahjoeka BILLIONS? YOU CAN'T BE SERIOUS.
Uh no this stuff is comparatively cheap to implement.
Installing plastic gates at just three stations would cost more than a manned mission to Mars.
I came from HK where the public transport is awesome, cheap, and easy to use, and I detested anyone who fare evade. Not that I’ve seen anyone fare evading ever.
Then I moved to Melbourne where the PT sucks, it’s super expensive, and they even make it hard for you to pay with their shitty ticketing system that crashes and then punished you for it. The ticket inspectors (whom doesn’t exist in HK), are aggressive and horrible people all around.
Now if I see someone fare evading I just think “good for them”.
It’s like how people willingly paid for streaming services even though they were pirating, most people want to pay for good services. Now the steaming services are having big declines in quality and are increasing their prices, so people go back to pirating.
Exactly
Because in usa public transport is only for the poor and must be profitable
@@carkawalakhatulistiwaOnly for the poor? You haven't been to NYC obviously...
@@bigbabado8296theyre the only exception
@@wyltedleaves What do you mean? It's extremely profitable for the automakers!
People in NYC straight up hold the door for everyone. They will actually hold the emergency exit door open.
I am a long-time Mettorail (WMATA) rider and it's been pretty shocking to watch the dramatic rise in fate evasion. There have been more than a few instances where I felt like I was the only person to actually pay the fare.
WMATA doesn't even have a flat fare rate. I don't blame people for hopping the gates.
There is no fare enforcement, fare evasion is decriminalized, failure to identify yourself when caught has no punishment, failure to show up to a court date or pay a fine has no consequence. I mean they don't even take away people's drivers licenses for thousands of dollars in unpaid speeding tickets (like that drunk driver who murdered three people in Rock Creek back in March). The DC city council has some notion that letting crime and anti-social behavior go unpunished somehow increases equity. It just erodes civil society and makes life worse for people who follow the rules.
@@keith5615 Then you go the opposite way like Virginia and have millions of people with suspended licenses who drive anyway because it's essentially a requirement to live in the US. There's definitely a better way. Maybe if we put all the money we keep wasting on repaving suburban roads and handing out tax breaks to people with more money than can be spent by an individual in three lifetimes we can fix this.
Join the dark side
I see them all the time and nobody stops them, its so annoying
Its worth noting that university students arent in a financial position for fares and often jump the turnstiles as well. Many CUNY students work over 30 hours a week while in class in order to support themselves and half of us are immigrant students. Not many of us are in a position to pay.
Fare checks do happen, but seem to be focused on certain bus routes. The M23 is a common one where they inspect fares at the midpoint
Boo hoo. Pay the fare.
@@eldebtor6973 as someone who does pay.... You're a bootlicker 🤣🤣🤣. Shut up
How are university students not eligible to pay the fare? I'm about to go back to school on top of working 40 hours a week. Factually speaking I'm making more than enough to pay $2.75 considering one hour is at least $15 before taxes . Could that money be used for more important things like food , rent , bills and etc yeah but you make it sound like all students aren't "eligible" when in fact they can pay it in the technical sense
@@elliekim6666 I didn’t proofread and meant to say they aren’t in a position to easily pay. That’s my bad
But CUNY has a unique student body as many of the students come from immigrant backgrounds (50%) and work during the semester to afford their classes. Too many also struggle with homelessness in a city with a persistent housing crisis (14%) I pay because I am a disabled vet and have a decent and stable income source from my VA benefits, but many of my friends jump so they can just save a bit more money for emergencies.
I do not think that university students should pay fares on both economic and moral grounds. They are preparing for specialized careers and should devote their attention to excelling in their studies so that they can be more productive workers and further enrich their community with their acquired knowledge and perspective. Expecting students compromise their grades for a basic quality of life is self-defeating as a society
@@rainemccandless8160 and yet y'all are for capitalism 🫠. This is capitalism at its finest. I'm not arguing if we should pay or not. I'm just pointing out facts. The minute you say raise taxes people will say no. We need to tax the rich .
I've been the frustrated evader/opportunistic evader. I had an unlimited, but everyone was coming out the turnstiles & the gate was open. So I just ran through & got on the train.
What worries me on the student metrocards is that it doesn't include college students. As a student about to enter NYU for my master's, I would love it if there could be a discount because I'm going to NYU as a student! MTA doesn't believe that college students should be included which feels wrong. I hope I'm not the only one here to believe this should be changed especially since foreign students have increased in NYC and more people are coming into the city!
This is something I like about my local transit operator, RTD in Denver. I get a free college pass that covers systemwide access and has no weird caveats. Makes my life easier in where I want to go without frustration in terms of cost.
@@kibaanazuka332 This is exactly what MTA should do!
Have you tried signing up for the Fair Fares program?
@@Undecided0 do they ask for information like lease? Im not currently a resident of NYC.
Some universities provide their students with transit passes, at the university's expense. NYU is tax exempt with a large endowment. They can well afford it better than the City of New York.
The couples evasion.
Years ago I was dating this young lady, we were about go through the subway turnstile. She tells me to directly behind me, she runs her Metro card, and we both go through the turnstile together. And she moved here to New York from Atlanta too.
So she started cheating on you early in the relationship?
@@whazzat8015 I hope not, her and I are good friends now.
@@WiseAssGamer Going through the turnstiles like that does encourage closeness. How do you feel about passing the cost of your date to others? You might consider trying the frisson of shoplifting at the bodega next.
I ALWAYS pay my fare but there are times where I question it and get frustrated when the trains are down or delayed. Why am I paying when the train never runs?
I’ve only seen an SBS inspection ONCE. I was getting off the bus at a stop and there were traffic officers there that blocked the exit doors, so you couldn’t get OFF the bus without them scanning your phone to see if you paid. Thankfully I paid that day so I quickly left, but I think a few people either got “pulled over” or had to just stay on the bus an extra stop to avoid them.
This is happened to me once on the B82 SBS when I board from the Kings Highway F station and there were 2 officers inspecting the fare cappers who payed their fare so I showed them my bus ticket and glad I pay the fare with my unlimited metrocard
The inspections usually board the bus to check tickets after they've checked the people getting off. If any of them haven't paid, they are removed from the bus to get the ticket written
I've been on a SBS on Woodhaven Blvd during an inspection. Two MTA officers got on and inspected the receipts of everyone and a bunch of people people were removed from the bus.
Sometimes they get on the bus and walk around asking for tickets. Other times, they stand at the bus stop, and when the bus comes and people get off the bus, they ask for tickets there
Was this post OMNY?
It seems to me to have gotten even worse post OMNY for bus fare evaders, because until a bus arrives, you have no way of knowing if the OMNY portals will be working, and you aren't going to double dip and get an SBS ticket just in case. In that case, the doors open, OMNY is down, and people just walk right onto the bus with no ticket, instead of getting off, getting a ticket, and waiting for the next bus (which is totally understandable, especially late at night). I suspect this will get better as OMNY learns from mistakes, but then again, MTA is not exactly renowned for its efficient capital investments.
It would also seem harder to actually *inspect* to confirm fares were paid if a rider rode OMNY. Mobile payment systems are not all alike. How would you prove that I actually tapped my credit card to pay fare? Are you going to assume I have a mobile device with internet capabilities, and that I'm going to spend money on data, and potentially expose my banking information to you, just to prove I paid the $2.75 to ride the subway?
As an every day bus rider, it seems like adding the OMNY gates *on* the bus was potentially a mistake. Keeping them at the stops, and mandating the use of an additional ticket, seems like an easy win for preventing more fare evasion, at the cost of more paper waste from tickets. But if the goal is to eliminate evasions, that will do it.
My thoughts on fare evasion is that you (and others) need to talk more about TOLL evasion. Society chooses to subsidize nearly all road costs, for some reason, but only subsidize a small amount of public transit.
I am not going to say that public transit needs to *always* be *free* since I'm sure it has some maginal social cost, but I am fine with a really low farebox recovery, since we are not expecting 99.999% of the roadways to financially break even.
And as it is, commuters, especially my own new jerseyans, dodge the few toll roads and bridges that we do have.
The breathless coverage of fare evasion and subway crime is incredibly irresponsible. Car drivers and even cops dodge more valuable tolls by defacing their plates at nearly the same rate, it seems, while destroying the environment.
Go at them before you come at the zero-emissions single mother stealing a 40 minute two seat ride back to queens from her job.
In a lot of cases, I think fully subsidized and free public transit makes sense. For people like me in NJ, who are essentially doing a legal tax dodge, charging us to get in on high-demand corridors is fair, if those corridors have frequent and high-quality service.
But the fact that PATH service is intentionally degraded by the PA in order to nudge people towards driving and paying a higher toll at the lincoln tunnel is extortion and environmental malpractice.
We need to be much more intentional about funding the infrastructure that will allow us to survive the 21st century with an intact society, and fare evasion is a non sequitur
How do you possibly evade a toll? Back in the day I know my father used to throw Delaware Bridge tokens into the coin hopper at the Throggs Neck Bridge and it took them as fare payment. I still don’t get that one. Then again, my father used to have that plastic adapter that went on a gas pump nozzle back when they sold regular and unleaded so he could regular in the unleaded tank. Another thing I don’t get. Yeah, you can put the device on that blanks out the plate reader but they’ll catch you eventually. I have EZPass, I pay the toll and get on with my life. As far as Jersey… I know people that went to some strange extremes to beat the fare on the Turnpike.. but it was an inconsequential sum..like they’d take the Goethals to save toll on the turnpike and hop onto 195 to 295 to beat those last few exits. I’ve taken 295 instead of the turnpike plenty of times but it has nothing to do with tolls.. usually it’s to avoid turnpike traffic or get food/gas/whatever… I guess if I commuted every day I might feel different but it’s just a cost of doing business. Like, I’m not going to stop driving through the city when they finally implement congestion pricing.
I’m different about fare avoidance because of how much money gets diverted from my tolls to support a mass transit system that I don’t use. You live in Jersey, you don’t have the overreaching bottomless pit that we know as the MTA. Personally, I’d get rid of subway and bus fares and just tack it onto NYC taxes. If you’re visiting the city, it gets added to the onerous taxes that they collect at hotels. Look at what replacing tollbooths with EZPass has gotten rid of those mile long waits just to pay a toll.
It's annoying in Portland where a bunch of people are against replacing a bridge between Oregon and Washington with a toll bridge that also has an LRT. It is annoying how we have to fight tooth and nail to make it easier and cheaper to go between States just because they don't want to pay more (also half the people going between the two States are illegally evading taxes but nobody cares about that).
No, one more time for the dumbasses in the back: almost all funding for roads comes from the gas tax, license fees, and traffic tickets. So no, drivers are actually paying for their roads with usage fees. The government does help with capital improvements, but the actual road maintenance is financed by motorists through usage fees. I believe mass transit should be held to the same standard: the system should cover it's own day to day operations with fares, and the government can help the system afford purchasing new buses or building new lines or whatever. This is not unreasonable. You have to pay for the services you use.
In fact, your failing public transit systems are almost always being propped up by taxes on parking, or parking meters, or just otherwise forcing people who don't ride the system to pay for it.
If toll evasion on bridges was even 10% as common as fare evasion on your precious mass transit systems, the government would go back to collecting cash tolls before drivers enter the bridge. So I don't want to hear shit about this, when you're coping for the fact you can't run a successful mass transit system without, once again, forcing drivers to prop it up.
Its nice to see you collaborating with not just bikes !
For the disability discount you have to send proof that you qualify for Social Security. The process to get approved for social security takes over a year at best.
So somebody recently disabled is completely out of any emergency fund they had, still having to pay $2.75 somehow. And if those disabilities are physical, the system is pretty awful to use.
2.75 is not shit lol
@@willissudweeks1050 $5.50 round trip. If you need bus to the subway to the bus, then that's two fare...also express buss, LIRR or metronorth
@@willissudweeks1050going off that other guys $5.50 round trip and assuming you’re only going one place a day (which I’m assuming is unrealistic) you’re looking at $38.5 a week or $154 in a shorter month. Now Public transportation is non existent in my area so Im no expert but from my perspective that looks like some shit.
The Metro Raíl in Buffalo NY is half NYC-style subway, half streetcar system on a single line. The streetcar above ground portion runs thru downtown Buffalo and is FREE (going underground is $2.00). It’s surprisingly busy for being only one line and Buffalo is actually one of the smallest major cities with a high rate of residents who don’t have a car (36%). Anyways, my point being that years ago before I owned a car I used to rely on the Metro Rail and ticket inspections were actually surprisingly common. I got caught once not paying fare- going downtown from the last underground station into the free zone- and they handed me a $50 ticket with no hesitation 💀💀💀
I love Buffalo, but that rail system needs expansion! It definitely sees a lot of use when there are events downtown (more and more these days!), but much of the time it's practically empty. Comes once every 20 minutes, so you really have to time it. There are some awesome proposals linking UB south to UB north, providing rail above ground along Niagara Falls Boulevard - but I imagine any substantial changes are a long way off. The current big infrastructure question is what to do with the Scajaqueda expressway!
Came to NYC from Germany last year, everything was easy thanks to Urban Caffeine and Omny.
I'm just not quite sure if Omny works very well. Had the impression that too much was charged. Well, that was the smallest amount of my trip, so what.
I'm glad to hear that not all of the US has such antiquated mass transit facilities.
Every time I vacation in Europe and pass through NYC on my way home I think the same thing. “This transit system kind of sucks.” OMNY is a big improvement though.
@@vitamaltz The singsong "Stand clear of the closing doors please" makes it an interesting journey through time.
And NYC's is considered good in the US despite being over a 100 years old in most places. The 7 and the L are fairly modern though
@@user-je123 I always appreciated the polite “please” at the end.
Yes, thank you for sharing your views. I don't want to be disrespectful at all.
I really enjoyed all the vibes and felt very at home even though it was my first stay.
You ride a train that is coming in with a lot of noise and you feel like you are in a movie.
Every country and every city is different and that's why you travel.
I live in Seattle and have been fare-checked several times on both Link light rail and the RapidRide buses. It used to be done by a contracted security company. Then, they introduced “fare ambassadors” with less militaristic uniforms, and they also relaxed the penalties a bit. More recently however, I’ve seen fare ambassadors accompanied by private security (5 people in all.) Personally, I think it makes a ton of sense to eliminate fares and make up the revenue with taxes, like we already do. We’d save all the money spent on fare collection and enforcement, make riding quicker and simpler, and probably encourage ridership, which indirectly saves even more money in lots of other ways.
@@chemicalfrankie1030 they can depending on state and state laws, so really just varies.
@@chemicalfrankie1030 I believe they check your ID and you get written up with a warning. If it happens a certain number of times then you get fined. It's true that the risk and consequence is low. I think the public shaming might actually be a bigger factor than the fine. But this is all god reasons why transit should just be fully funded by taxes and not dependent on people paying fares, especially since we have to pay salaries for all those fare checkers and security, not to mention all the ticket machines, card readers, servers to store the data, and other personnel involved in fare planning and administration. I'm just sayin' there's no fee to use a road, the library, or to send your kids to school.
I'm shocked you have a chin
Taxpayers are paying for the student metro cards and the free fare cards currently given out. people are receiving assistance and don't use them. many enjoy jumping crawling under and entering the emergency exits without consequences. public transportation seems to be crazy nationally.
people can also tap and go using their phones or debit cards.
I honestly can't fault any fare evaders. But ALL of your takes in this are so good! Especially free fare for youth!!!
Student cards are not because they are being nice, but because no transportation is provided. If you are in middle school up, 11years old, the city is expecting you to take yourself to school. Is 3 rides per day, which allows for one school activity. This are also given to kids that live with in a mile to school in kindergarten and elementary school. Walk 20-25 minutes, no school bus for them. This card is usually given late, around October. Then they expire and you need a new one, and the person that controls them is never available. it is June and one of my kids never got one for 2023.
In Munich and Copenhagen, there is no barriers to get in. They expect you pay.
1964 was also the year of the World’s Fair in Flushing. The Unisphere and Pavilion are still around from that time.
The MTA uses fare evasion as an excuse for fare hikes. People have been fare evading forever. The MTA needs scapegoats to justify stuffing their pockets.
NGL I can't help but agree - based on the amount of BS they have been involved with over the years, I feel like them citing this as a reason to raise fares would be just that - an excuse, not necessarily something that holds true under scrutiny (and certainy not because someone in a suit will inevitably say it is the case).
But if they don't raise their fares how are they gonna build the most expensive subway expansion on the planet that's literally only 4 stops?
This is wild to me. As someone from Texas we don't have a lot of rail or buses in the rural areas but in Dallas, the officers check all the time on the trains. The drivers check on the buses so you don't see this very often. I don't get the evaders but I won't pass judgement. Excellent points were made here and some need to be implemented.
I have visited Seattle a few times and seen fare-checking probably 3 or 4 times out of the 15 times I've ridden the light rail. One time, my friend hadn't paid but the inspectors were only riding our train back from the a prior check and weren't checking our train, so he got lucky.
Get the homeless to check fares.
Problem solved
what do they do if you didn't pay fare
@@nathans2157 Take your meth away.
@@whazzat8015 peoplel are starting to switch to fent from meth in seattle
I feel like the Student Metrocard should either include university students. But, with university students, since I’m assuming the student will have a Uni ID card, they could show the card for getting the card or when they add swipes.
I am a fair fares recipient, to let you know my mother, only full time employed person home made under 25k a year and only got accepted after catching covid and missing work because of it, we tried prior and were denied
MTA sucks
0:57 New York's biggest problem is that public transportation has to be profitable. new York subway is very expensive 2.75 USD compared to metro in other countries considering the quality.
The no barriers approach is used a lot in Europe too. I think this is probably the best approach but it's worth making sure that the inspectors are pretty well-audited so that they don't profile people based on appearance.
I live in Seattle. It's an open secret that most people don't pay fare for light rail - I hear it's a 14% pay rate. The "fare ambassadors", in my opinion, are really only there to remove troublemakers. If you're just a normal person who decided to hop on while saving money, you're good.
Portland also has walk-on light rail, and I have been inspected for fare many times. Lots of riders advocate for more fare inspections because a) it discourages trouble makers (in theory) most of whom don't pay fare and b) people who pay want to know they're paying for a reason. Every light rail ride I paid for and didn't get checked by a fare inspector is money I spent but didn't have to.
The way I see it is even if there isn't an inspector if you don't pay Trimet is more likely to either reduce the frequency of various bus/MAX/tram lines or outright cut the lines that you need to use. So it isn't wasted money if there isn't an inspector.
Thanks so much for featuring my home Seattle! I'm very proud of how much progress we've made in the transit space in the past decade. Although I'll admit that fare inspections are uncommon, I only ride the light rail for 1-2 trips per week and I've seen it more and more lately. Maybe twice in the past month, and usually on the busiest sections of the line between Downtown and Northgate. I've never seen one at the southern end near the airport.
block any and all fare evaders that you find.
As well as introducing these turnstiles shown at 13:25, it should be required to not only tap your card when entering, but also when leaving, as long as it is the same card used to tap in.
They do this on the one Baltimore Metro subway line even though it’s flat fare. If you lose your card, you’d wind up like “Charlie on the MTA” by the Kingston Trio.
@@rockvilleraven so the NYC subway is flat fare? is that the reason why traditional turnstiles are used? Very few shops in the UK require you to scan your receipt to exit meaning if the receipt didnt print out, lost it, gets damaged or didn't buy anything in store, good luck trying to get out due to shoplifting. London fares depend on how many zones you travel, hence the need to tap out.
The reaspn why i propose this change is as well as reducing fare evasion, it makes it more friendly for people with luggage and those who are disabled.
@@annabelholland New York it’s flat fare in DC, it’s distance based during peak and off peak. After 9:30 to closing weeknight and all day weekdays it’s 2 dollars flat when you enter. You still need your card to exit. There is a lot of fare evasion in DC because the one party Democratic ruled City Council decriminalized fare evasion. I got pepper sprayed in the eyes during rush hour once and the asshole jumped the gate.
oh HELL nah fuck that
That means I can only have one card at a time, and I have to not lose it, or put it in the same pocket.
In Japan, it would be extremely rare someone evades fare. Its in their culture.
Maybe because the cost of living is not super high.
I came from HK where the public transport is awesome, cheap, and easy to use, and I detested anyone who fare evade.
Then I moved to Melbourne where the PT sucks, it’s super expensive, and they even make it hard for you to pay with their shitty ticketing system that crashes and then punished you for it. The ticket inspectors (whom doesn’t exist in HK), are aggressive and horrible people all around.
Now if I see someone fare evading I just think “good for them”.
It’s like how people willingly paid for streaming services even though they were pirating, most people want to pay for good services. Now the steaming services are having big declines in quality and are increasing their prices, so people go back to pirating.
Yes Japan has a good culture but the good culture is supported by a good system. They can’t create a shitty system and expect people not to be shitty back.
@@jahjoekaTokyo is one of the most expensive cities in the world.
Finances and lack of time due to working are the most citied reasons for Japanese people not having children.
When I was in NYC in April, I got on the bus in Staten Island. About 8 people got on the bus the stop I was at. I was the ONLY one that paid!
Tryna evade the AirTrain fare 👀
This is an interesting niche to specialize in- you came up n my radar as I was recently viewing LA metro transit lines- they have a big upgrade coming which made me think about NYC's line.
To answer your question, I've only witnessed an SBS Bus inspection once, so they seem very rare. Also, I would think it's going to be difficult during rush hour on packed buses with people complaining about delays.
Lately I've been musing on what things would be like if one could easily travel interstate just using public transit.
Good post and you have a new sub.
The fact that transportation systems have fairs at all is incredibly stupid imo. Just put it in taxes or a part of other budgets so it’s paid for invisibly. No convoluted bureaucracy for low income/disabled/young/old discounts, no need for paying enforcement employees, and a simplified entrance/exit architecture with less maintenance. The whole fare price thing is a regressive racket imo, a load of bs that could be done far more equitably.
Then why would people who won't use it have to pay for it. I certainly would be upset if I paid more taxes for public transportation that I wouldn't use.
@@tonylabrusca6602 probably the same reason people who don’t own cars have to pay taxes to maintain roads and traffic lights and traffic cops
@Ray14508 well that's bad trains take up space in the road and also busses. So technically they still use the road.
@@tonylabrusca6602roads take up walking space. Why should i pay for drivers to intrude on my walking space?
@@tonylabrusca6602 Well, if you were in New York, you would use it, it's cheaper than getting around any other way, and faster than walking. But let's say you insisted on driving everywhere. You drive to a grocery store. The guy stocking the shelves got there by train. You go to a musical. The lead actor and half the crew took the train. You go to the movie theater. The employees all got there without the train, but the people in seats next to you all took the train, and wouldn't have come if the train weren't available, keeping your movie ticket in the $10-20 range rather than the $1000 renting a theater all to yourself range.
Besides, the difference in taxes would likely be tiny, not enough to even notice unless you were the kind of person who reads yearly budgets of your municipality for fun.
The high cost of fare evasion in NYC is indeed concerning. One solution worth considering is adopting the global trend of free public transport for all. This approach has proven successful in various cities, offering benefits such as reducing financial burdens for commuters, promoting increased public transport usage, easing traffic congestion, and addressing environmental concerns. While implementing such a system would require careful evaluation and planning, exploring the potential advantages of free public transport could lead to a more equitable and accessible transportation system for all residents of NYC.
I don't use the Link (Seattle) all that often, but I have witnessed a ticket inspection on it. It's also the same in German cities: There are no turnstiles but you have a real chance to get into a ticket inspection. In Germany, ticket evasion is a criminal offense (Ordnungswidrigkeit, i.e. a lesser crime). While this is usually just a monetary fine, non-payment can result in imprisonment. There are attempts to decriminalize it though since it disproportionately impacts poor people.
The thing is that no matter how low the fare is people will skip it . And yeah there’s some people who do so for price hikes or the cost but there’s tons that are not just doing it because they can’t afford it but because they don’t want to.
I'm excited for that podcast! That sounds like it will be a really interesting episode!!
Thanks! I believe it's coming out tomorrow on CZcams.
Have jumped the turn a few times, once when some friends and I were late for school orientation and couldn't wait for the next train if we missed the boarding one, another when I got off at the wrong stop, went topside and realized i was in the wrong place, and this lady told me to just go back through the gate after she told me the correct place to get off at back when I was still new. Otherwise I always pay the fare, but wish that instead of going on about the evasions the MTA would make the stations look and feel safe and cared about. They all are filthy and feel unsafe, and feels kinda annoying how they don't seem to be trying to change that.
In the UK, our gates are too high to jump over, will slam in your face if you try to piggyback, are linked to the fire alarms and will open automatically in the event of a fire, and we have wider gates for wheelchairs, prams and bikes.
In Japan if you pay per ride, you get an actual ticket that you have to insert into the gate machine, and it punches a hole and returns the ticket, then when you arrive, you have to insert that ticket again to leave. Not sure how the payment cards (PASMO, etc) work though. Something like this could deter fare evaders since they would need to jump 2 turnstyles/gates to avoid paying the fare.
D.C. works like this too.
Pasmo / Suica need to be swiped on the way in and again on the way out.
Fare evaders do exist in Japan though it's very rare. Rider will buy the cheapest ticket availble and take long ride. When arrive the the destination, they will act as if they lost the ticket and told the staff that they get on from the nearest staion next to destination. The staff will issue the new ticket and rider may have to pay the new issued ticket.
This is kinda convoluted and also risky hence I never tried it myself in past 8 years living in Japan.
Plus nowday, Japan has mobile IC card which is implemented in my phone. I can just top up in the app and good to go. No need to even line up for the ticket machine.
Too much work. I’m skipping that
@Davidgon100 What happens in the event of a fire or other emergency when people need to get out of the station fast?
I guess my thing with the plastic gates is that they're just flimsy pieces of plastic. Here in Ottawa (and probably Toronto as well), I always see people just forcing the gates open, glitching them out of service and leaving them stuck open. The gates also take too long to close, and one when I was going through the gate, some stranger ran up behind me, got so close I could feel his breathe on my neck, and rushed in after I walked through
The O-Train gates are known to be far too thin and flimsy with a delay that’s too long. It’s solvable and has been done in other places it’s just that OC Transpo can’t seem to keep it together, they always get so close to greatness yet fumble right when it matters.
I'm from Bogotá, Colombia, the city with the most used BRT in the world and fare evasion is hell here. I do love your idea about youth fare card because this is the 2nd greatest trouble here. But Reckless unlawful fare evasion is rampant in Bogota and strong law enforcement with hefty fines has to be implemented. Amazing video!
I haven't seen a fare inspection on a MTA SBS ride except for on the BX12 which travels from Inwood to Coop City. The other ones I have used in Manhattan, I've never seen a fare check. When I traveled to Phoenix, they checked the fare on ever ride of the Valley Metro. (obviously those routes were less crowded, but still!)
I experienced that time on The B44 SBS. Fortunately, I kept my receipt throughout the ride and carried the day myself. "If I won't pay, I won't ride."
fare evasion is the result of frustrated new yorkers who don’t see the value of paying. if the MTA improved service there wouldn’t be as much fare evasion.
20-30 minute weekend wait times, lines closed for the entire weekend, trains going out of service during rush hour, etc. If these issues didn’t occur and track fixes were handled during the hours of 11pm - 8am instead of closing an entire line for a weekend would help.
meet us in the middle, MTA, and we won’t hop.
Lovely analysis! thank you 🙏🏻 As someone who currently lives in Bushwick, I’d like to add a note about the buses: I see why bus fare evasion is so high, mainly because in many places in BK & Queens, buses are the only transit option available yet there’s very few places to buy a metro card which can be used to get a free transfer from bus to bus. I live by the L train, but there’s nowhere to buy a metro card at my station. none of the bus stops near me have a place to buy a metro card. The MTA needs to make the metro cards more accessible if they want people to pay their fair share. I’ve had to pay an extra $2.90 for each bus transfer because there’s nowhere for me to buy a metro card unless I spend $2.90 to get to one. Then I have to pay for a card + add funds. That said, if I have to transfer from a train to a bus + the tap to pay is broken on said bus? I’m not paying again.
I wonder if you could replace fare all together with taxes? The MTA already gets tax revenue but the idea is making riding the subway free for everyone always but spreading the costs among New York tax payers directly. Some rough napkin math: The MTA's budget is a bit over 19.3 billion. Of that, 23% are fares, rounding up let's say that's 4.5 billion that you would need to make up. The NYC population is eight million, if six million tax payers paid $800 per year each that's 4.8 billion. In practice, the wouldn't necessarily have to come directly from tax payers. Maybe lean on Luxury real estate's property taxes or some kind of mix of different tax revenues. The details can be worked out to make the costs easier to manage. The point is that it's a radical idea that might be worth exploring.
As you noted, fares are only 23% of costs. So riders are already getting over three-quarters of their ride subsidized. I think that is fair.
blacks dont pay taxes
I live in Madrid, we have those screens to reduce fare avoidance. Half of them are so broken they stay almost fully open, and even the new "futuristic" ones are so slow, that the actual reduction on fare avoidance has been pitiful
I live in Anchorage AK and though our bus system has lots of room for improvement (infrequent, often dirty and late), we have free fares for students (for college students as well! I really appreciate that). If even we can do it, there's absolutely no reason NYC can't
anchorage population: 288 thousand, nyc population 8.4 million.
@@Ray-ru3pc yeah I know, and only about 3% of us use the bus on a daily basis. That example aside, I forgot to mention that everyone in Mexico City 62 or older rides all public transit for free, and they aren't nearly wealthy as NYC. There's really no good excuse
@@Ray-ru3pcI'd imagine a lot more people travel by bus in NYC than Anchorage though
I have seen inspections on the NYCT SBS buses, but not nearly as regularly as I think they need to happen. On the contrary I have also seen this on the New Jersey Transit Hudson Bergen Light Rail, and the River Line, where it seems to occur more regularly (and efficiently). The elephant in the room is NYCT's local buses. The new fleet of buses have wider rear doors which just seem to invite even more fare evasion. The really annoying part of this is the rear door fare evaders who board and take seats, while those who have paid fares have to stand.
ride near the rear door so you push out fare evaders.
@Sam Sitar LOL! No! Don't ever try to play "cop". Very bad idea. I saw someone try exactly that, and two of the fare evaders turned violent, dragged him off the bus, beat the daylights out of him, and then fled to parts unknown.
Every time I open the gate to push my stroller through 4 or 5 people come in the other way. it really is bad design that this is possible -- London has proper accessible gates, where this doesn't happen.
Lmaooo the pic of the blue bubble couch had me dead
The easiest way to stop fair evasion is to remove the cost.
Genuine question, doesn't NYC already have an issue with homeless or mentally ill people getting on the trains to only harass or panhandle? Wouldn't that be even worse if it was a completely free ride?
So if it’s free who, or what pays for the day to operation and upkeep of the system…and what about expanding the system?
I recently rode the city bus which I NEVER do! At least 10 people got on the bus without paying!
Our taxes pay for the MTA. Paying fare as a resident is literally paying twice. People aren’t “not paying” or “riding for free”. They’re refusing to pay for the same thing twice.
thoughtful and judicious presentation... it's a problem from coast to coast
Ironic you bring up Seattle, the city with the highest percentage of fare cheaters in the country, and the most lax enforcement. According to a Seattle times article from last September, If you do get questioned by a "fare ambassador" (incredibly rare) you get two warnings a year before any kind of fines come into effect. I just spent some time in Seattle, and the only people paying for fares were tourists.
😂😂😂 I was a tourist in Seattle and feel silly
@@waveboi93 the only place that seemed to care about fares was the monorail. The light rail didn't even have turnstiles, and the bus drivers didn't care. We paid for all of our fares, but the longer we were there, the more I considered not paying. I can imagine what it's like to live there.
@@frednich9603 ya dude, most soyboy who trend complain about Seattle are not that familiar with how shit work here
@@premsprespective3507 just the kind of reaction I would expect from someone who lives in Seattle. Rampant homelessness, drug use, and mental illness at every street corner. You're lucky San Francisco and Portland exist or you would be known as a cess pool of the west coast
@@frednich9603 what does this even mean? of course, those city has problem. those thing you mention is happening all of the nation. btw whataboutism does not work here.
I'm sorry, NINE student fare cards? I get child, teen, and adult-student but NINE?!
Transit system should be free since we already pay taxes to fund the mta
I've lived in Portland for about a year now, and I've seen fare inspections in the light rail a few times but never in the buses.
I used to ride the SBS M60 across town to work every day on 125th st from Lenox to 1st Ave. Even though I had an unlimited card, there were a few times times I had to just get on because I would be late for work. The problem with the SBS is that you have to get a physical ticket from a machine on the street. If the bus is coming and your going to be late, it can take a significant amount of time to put in your metro card, and print a ticket from that machine. And the SBS doesn't run as frequently as regular buses.
Not only did I frequently see the inspectors, I actually got caught and kicked off the bus once for not having a ticket and the MTA fined me $100!! There was occasionally a lot of comradery on the bus though, people who got off would pass their ticket to someone getting on so they would be safe from the checks!
I don't ride it any more, but I do wonder if they have OMNY on SBS now or if you still have to get a ticket. But yea, the inspectors are real 👀
They have OMNY now, at least for the past year I’ve been here
OMNY is on SBS . There on every bus and subway stop
Love the rider solidarity.
@@taytsay1 Ok cool. Yea I stopped riding in like 2018 and now I just work at home so no need to take SBS. And even so. my jobs still sends me an unlimited metrocard every month. But glad they have OMNY on SBS to make things easier!
OMNY is on the buses now but I've been on many where the card readers aren't working and I don't typically carry cash with me so I just cross my fingers and hope the bus doesn't get an inspection lol
14:17 rather than updating the turnstiles I wish money would be put towards building the barriers by the subway tracks to help avoid more people being pushed onto the tracks
Grew up in Tacoma, but have lived in Seattle for the past year. Rode the light rail a couple times a year before moving up here, and now multiple times a week. I’ve only been checked for a ticket twice in that time. Once around 2010 while going to a Sounders match, and once a couple months ago, although I do feel like I’m seeing more “fair ambassadors” at my station more recently
Love how you put the obnoxiously loud dutch gates in the video😂
I always pay my fare now but once upon a time I was broke kid living in Brooklyn who go slapped with a $60 ticket for using my school metro card on an off day. The ticket was almost double by the time I could afford to pay it. Considering the price of fairs have gone up and they no longer give free rides for x purchases I can't be mad at the people who hop the turnstile.
Working for $9/hour in NYC back in 2008 a good chunk of my paycheck was just going to metrocards
I've been on the SBS, usually on 1st Ave going uptown, many times when enforcement has hopped on to inspect tickets. It's happened much less when I've been on the SBS on 23rd.
Toronto and the area around it is revamping its fare system to allow for some regional integration. It has some ups and downs, as integrating several different fare systems complicates things, but we are gradually moving towards allowing people to pay their fares using their credit cards, or even their phones.
Among some of the unintended consequences is the fact that the Toronto Transit Commission decided to eliminate fares for kids 12 and under. That's great. However, they still needed to have a fare card (called a Presto card) to swipe at various turnstiles and fare access points in order to access the system. That's fine: just give them a card, register it as a children's fare card, and you're done. Except it's indistinguishable from a regular Presto card, because there is only one Presto card, you simply change how it registers its fares based on the software. Which meant that these under-12 cards became hot black market items since they were essentially free travel cards for the TTC.
We do have a number of fare inspectors, however; I have encountered these officers at least once every few weeks, and people do get caught.
its ridiculously frustrating to see the conversation around fare evasion falling on the riders. Yes, it's an obvious place to finger point because riders are the ones directly doing it, but has anyone considered that if your service is terrible people may feel more inclined to not pay. Why should I pay for a service when the trains are infrequent, derailing, shut down due to maintenance etc... I get terrible service in Boston for the ticket I pay for, and often have lost out financially because of my reliance on the god awful MBTA. I don't feel inclined giving them my money until they provide a service that is truly worth paying for. If America thoughtfully invested in transit, and stopped pretending like it needs to be profitable, then maybe we could host world class transit in our cities.
Some of the best public transit in the world is in Japan. The rail is run by a collection of private companies operating different segments. There's government regulation and support for major projects, but they're still for profit organizations.
Come to Baltimore, half the metro stations have gates that are permanently open, and the bus drivers often just wave people on without checking for their fares. Only the light rail sees any kind of enforcement from what I've heard, but even then I haven't experienced it myself.
Inspection on the SBS 60 coming from LaGuardia when we got the Metro North stop on 125th. About 3 years ago.
Living in Seattle currently - some companies, Microsoft for example, if you work for them you can be given a fare card that will be unlimited for a several months. More companies and employers should do this
I remember being a student and having a half fare metrocard. I would have to go to a store and make change for the extra $1-$1.25 or however much it was.
I still lived in Brooklyn when they brought the SBS to Brooklyn. They had inspectors back then, not sure about now. NJ transit has inspectors. I don’t take the train often, but most times they check, I’ve only been skipped once but I’ve heard of times when they didn’t check.
Here in Sydney, if you are a student and your student card ("only" for school trips) isn't working, the guard literally tells you to jump the gates, as you already ride free. It's so common not to tap on as a student that allegedly, this caused the removal of the M52 (long distance) bus service as there wasn't enough patronage by looking at the amount of card taps alone, despite the bus route being a popular line. This wasn't helped as students don't usually tap on in a crowded bus.
As for inspections... they seem to only occur on my train line, and some other lines don't have inspections.
“Because we fucking can, and if we we can, we do” -Tommy Shelby 😂
I've noticed that where I live (Portland, OR) they tend to fare-check us on the train the most often if it's going to be a long time between stations or if the next station is one you can't avoid paying at.
For example, we have one underground light rail station called Washington Park and the surrounding stops are Sunset Transit Center and Goose Hollow; very often I've seen fare-checking occur between one of the two latter stops and Washington Park because the only way you can pay at Washington Park is by going up the elevators, leaving the station, and paying outside. Kinda sneaky cause people can't just get away with it that way...
i have heard her say "Proof of payment and validated fare are required on MAX.".
I have never been checked on the MAX when I frrequently visit. Homeless dudes just use the trams to sleep it seems recently.
Mfs at the MTA are using the budget on shitty Bathroom tile art instead of fixing their horrible services
I think public transit should be free/fully subsidized by the government - if roads and highways are “free” (aside from toll roads which there’s usually an option to avoid) public transit should be “free” as well
I've lived in the Seattle area for about 7 years now. I only started taking public transit about a year and a half ago though when I got fed up with driving. Getting an Orca card is super easy and cheap. It's $3 for a card and it's as simple as ordering one on the orca app and then waiting about a week for it to be mailed.
Also as for inspections. It varies. I have never seen a check on the 1-line, but I have been checked once on a general bus. I've been checked weekly on the Swift (A rapid bus service in the northern area of greater Seattle). So yeah...varies. I do ride the 1-line very rarely as I don't live or work in Seattle proper.
I was in Vienna last month and used the subway quite extensively, one day I visited all 99 stations in 5 hours or so. I bought the tickets but never got inspected
Same phenomenon in San Francisco Bay Area (BART)
An official also tweeted that 80% of crime that happens on the system are committed by fare evaders.
Love the couch at 3:37 😂
Oh my goodness, I showed up twice in the scroll through the spicy comments! Like a good hot sauce, there has to be flavor and not just heat 😅 I hope my comments contributed to actual discussion.
Thank you for doing this video -- and for taking a look at that MTA report so the rest of us don't have to!
Living in a place with long plastic doors... them being long also means they have to be able to be manually opened in a case of emergency. That weakens them which results in fare evaders ramming the doors and rendering the gate out of operation. NYC could use the London ones, which are still difficult to jump over but really won't budge if you want to storm through. There's also ones with long plastic doors that slide rather than swivel. I think those could be made evader proof.
id rather they get rid of them alltogether
We have the sliding ones here in Boston, and they’re only partially effective themselves. The sliding means they close a bit slower so people can slip right through, and if they hit an obstacle they don’t close fully. And I’ve seen people STILL ram right through them and bend them open, which really does break them since that’s NOT how they’re meant to bend.
watch how fast those gates will break in New York City with a population of over 8 million people, and over 400 stations. Good luck stationing pigs in every station 24/7 to prevent vandalism
I know I am late lol, but honestly, I think you said it the best when it comes to options on fare evasion. The MTA is one of those transit agencies where they would want things depending on a board, like the recent price hike on the MTA Subway & Bus, which was kinda crazy to think that went through what the MTA needs to focus on is changing the way of entry like you have mentioned coming into stations to directly pay and take the subway rather than doing an extra time-consuming walk to the station you're supposed to take your train, another thing I like that the MTA should do is change the turnstile as I doubt the MTA would make fare work like SBS buses because let's face it who pays for an SBS bus especially when it comes to the MTA inspectors not being there as I have lived here for 19 years of my life and only seen 3 ever. One after the 2020 pandemic as well. Overall this is a good video, and I'm happy I can say my thoughts on this video.
The MTA overall collects 15 Billion dollars. Each YEAR. So to portray fair evasion as one of the most evil and detrimental things to New York Public transportation, when at the same time the real evil of unclean, no public restrooms, underpaid staff, immensely wild subway and bus route changes (especially at night), and just the overall uncleanliness of an, again, a 15 billion dollar company, getting away with these tactics each year is maybe prioritizing the wrong thing right now.
Also, before anyone says the reason why public bathrooms shouldn't exist is because homeless people will be in them, well perhaps then we actually do have a homeless problem and the shelters and resources they have are inadequate (%14 of homeless are college students).
@@chemicalfrankie1030 500 million is still not greater than a 15 billion dollar win. Also, for an immensely large city where there are no alternatives for normal people to get around NYC, begs the question if public transit should even be something people have to pay any price for?
@@chemicalfrankie1030 why would a criminal be stopped by a fare gate if it’s apparently quite easy to just not pay anyways? We don’t have fare gates at all here in Germany and I feel much safer in any German U-Bahn then I’ve ever felt in an American subway. If your only plan against criminals and homeless is a fare gate, it’s probably not a good plan.
@@chemicalfrankie1030 > *fare evasion is 500m*
Still ~ 1/30th of wha the MTA takes in, which at the very least makes me hope that IF they try to use this as an excuse to raise fares, someone with a brain at least questions them about it.
(Which can be true AT THE SAME time as there being a need to fight fare evasion).
@@KitchenTongs so just let blacks get away with it? the prison industry is more than 15 billion, they need more blacks to lock up... you prob crave bbc
I’ve ridden the SBS a bunch of times and only once I had an inspector check payment. It was kinda cool - I beeped the same card that I had used for the Omny payment and it showed I had payed already
I’m from Seattle. If you ride the light rail every day, you’ll definitely get to know the “fare ambassadors” (what a euphemism). They are relatively sparse and I’ve never heard of anyone facing an inspection twice on the same day. From the statistics they collect, a very small percentage of transit users don’t pay.
That being said, If you are evading, it’s very easy. Just watch carefully to see if they’re waiting on the platform as the train pulls up, and then get out of the car as they get on.
employers should be paying for 100% or the MTA. User fees are unacceptable.
Coming to you from a railroad buff, Christian people call the fare evasion act "Stealing a ride." As much as I know, fare evaders are selfish, too. When fare evaders steal rides on the buses and railcars, they take the seats and would not give revenue passengers their seats. $500,000,000 is an extreme amount of money for a transit agency to lose. Such money can be used for several purposes. e the seats and would not give revenue passengers their seats. $500,000,000 is an extreme amount of money for a transit agency to lose. Such money can be used for several purposes. such as maintaining railcar equipment and parts; purchase newer rolling stock within a favorable amount time; purchase new buses; maintain track and signal equipment; add computer based train control systems throughout the three divisions; even complete the construction of the Second Avenue Subway line; and purchase better equipment and vehicles for the buses and rapid transit lines. As long as fare evasion increases to an all-time high, the only work that can be done do maintain stations, railcars, buses, and other transit equipment, is to buy cheap and inferior supplies and do "cosmetic" or touch-up work. Once again, fare evasion is simply stealing a ride.
The gates at 13:35 are the Dutch OV card style gates and they are super slow to open and close, I hate them every day during rush hour, from the moment you hold your card at the reader until they actually open I could have been in my train already and the amount of times they just failed to open at all is way to much. They recently seem to have put an extra delay in them between each rider making delays even worse.
LOL at the thumbnail. If only fare evaders had to jump a hurdle
Hahaha ... in '64, I was in the 4th grade.
I jumped the stile once in '87 - gave my boss who was with me the last token in my pocket. He had never in his life riden the subway and the token booth had a 'uuuge line. Needless to say from the raised eyebrows, the boss was impressed.🤠
In Philly the system for the subway is so bad. Homeless people have started waiting out by the handicapped entrance, and opening it from the inside for people to skip the fare, then in exchange for the favor they ask for some cash. Sometimes, that's easier than using the old broken machines to pay.
Tax the wealthy business owners who depend on me being able to get to work and do all of the actual labour that makes them profitable and make public transit free at the point of use. Roads are free at the point of use and serve far fewers people while requiring constant repairs and upgrades.
There's a rail here in texas between Dallas and Fort Worth, two very big city sections on the north end of texas. As a texan, it's a rare and majestic sight to see a passenger rail. They have never checked tickets any time I've ridden, but I always pay just in case and as a curtesy for the infrastructure I wish to see more of. Right now I cant do so much as go from north to mid texas on rail. The infrastructure just isn't there. Doesn't take me around any of the cities, doesn't reach any borders, not west to east, not north to south, nothing. Just goes directly to DFW and FW with a few stops. You'll instead be taking the rail just to cut you closer to a bus stop with really huge wait times between arrival. in fact the rail itself has up to nearly an hour long wait time depending on the time of day. I really hope for more infrastructure.