Fixing TF2's Terrible Weapons
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 25. 06. 2024
- There are a lot of them.
Play the Changes!
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Read the Changes (free):
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(Scroll down to "GrouchMod Weapon Stats")
Discuss on Discord:
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0:00 Intro
đ” Rocket Jump Waltz - TF2 Soundtrack
0:50 Heavy
đ” Idol Springs - Spyro 2 Soundtrack
6:10 Sniper
đ” Right Behind You - TF2 Soundtrack
đ” Seduce Me! - TF2 Soundtrack
đ” Mystic Marsh - Spyro 2 Soundtrack
đ” Magma Cone - Spyro 2 Soundtrack
14:03 Soldier
đ” Forest Funk - Super Meat Boy Soundtrack
14:58 Scout
đ” Forest Funk - Super Meat Boy Soundtrack
15:45 Demoman
đ” Forest Funk - Super Meat Boy Soundtrack
16:58 Engineer
đ” More Gun - TF2 Soundtrack
đ” Lon Lon Ranch - Zelda: Ocarina of Time Soundtrack
20:37 Spy
đ” Ghost Fight - Undertale Soundtrack
đ” Old War Machines - Into the Breach Soundtrack
đ” The Healer Stalks - Doom 2
27:10 Pyro
đ” The Shallows - Another Crab's Treasure Soundtrack
đ” Resurrections - Celeste Soundtrack
30:31 Medic
đ” Strike the Earth! - Shovel Knight Soundtrack
đ” Vampires Invading Heaven - Everhood Soundtrack
34:59 What now?
đ” Undertale - Undertale Soundtrack - Hry
![Why [TF2] has (Almost) Perfect Melee Weapons](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/NArb-D-M8aU/mqdefault.jpg)
No Gas passer? No hot hand? No sun on a stick?
those weapons are too overpowered to be changed
no sandman?
In due time my friend. I wanted to keep this video relatively small since I knew many of the changes would be problematic
I'd add the wrangler to that list but nerfing it instead.
@@HeyGrouch Problematic is under selling how big these changes were.
r/tf2 : "let the community make changes to the game"
what the community does :
wait until you find out it's not a hivemind
im glad valve doesn't allow community made updates anymore
Probably better than what valve did to majority of the weapons
Community: "We want to balance the game, we're better at it then Valve Devs"
Also community: *nerfs 90% of spy unlocks*
@@danielsurvivor1372 community : "we want to balance the game"
community : "vomits on their keyboard"
all the nerfs made sense when he said he was a soldier main.
couldn't have said it better myself
Also the fact he thinks direct hit shouldn't be nerfed, r.i.p. loch n load, more difficult and satisfying
Directed is balanced though it doesn't have any splash so you have to actually hit your shots and you only get an extra 25 damage which doesn't matter for a lot of classes
Love the fact he didn't nerf the Direct Hit lol... Im a Soldier main and that weapon is def broken in any 1v1 scenario
@@mr.monkey354your stupid
>nerfs the sniper into the ground, with somewhat actually good reworks
>changes a weapon so it isnt affected by tracers, one of the main characteristics of the entire rework
>changes the dds to make it so you can jump 20 feet into the air and quickly reposition yourself in a moments notice
and that, my friends, is how the entire server became sniper v sniper class wars
Heat frog build war
I mean making the heat maker do basically nothing on body shots seems like a pretty damn big nerf to counter the lack of tracers. But yeah the jumping thing is crazy lol
@Chicken-Chaser fair point but it's more so "shoot a few times, reposition if enemy catches on" and rinse and repeat until they're dead
All he did was reduce ammo and add tracers, hardly a nerf into the ground. If it was 5-7 rounds I'd consider it a change that did anything at all. Tracers are cool, but he can still go on an uninhibited quickscope rampage dealing 150dmg a second from any range. Then the danger shield and cozy camper buffs lmao what are we doing here?
If you want to nerf Sniper, then make him less dangerous up close (within 500 hu) and at extreme distances (2000 hu and beyond). I thought about sweetspot ranges for the Sniper Rifles because tracer rounds basically do nothing to stop a half-decent Sniper that can reliably hit headshots, and a skilled Sniper becomes very oppressive very quickly
bro nerfed the enforcer somehow :skull:
I konw right? Why...it shod not be nerved.
I'm telling ya bro, if community was responsible for balancing, Spy would eventually get nerfed to oblivion
why putting bleed? its pretty pointless as you'd make less damage, die first and the other guy would prob survive
I was excited when enforcer came up until he somehow made it even worse
He turned it into the Liberator pistol from WWII.
I love that he nerfed the sniper, but gave him weapons that make him as strong as before the nerfs
balance đ
Not only just as strong, but STRONGER as he's able to reposition super quick with the darwin
@@GRAHAMICVS I think he's a closeted sniper main
He nerfed Sniperâs ammo, but proceeded to buff the Cozy Camper to increase the Sniperâs ammo to more than it was BEFORE the nerf.
@@GrassiestGrassyI mean you become unable to defend your self well
This is either an elaborate shitpost or the ultimate proof that not just Valve doesn't know what to do with this game but the community doesn't either
agreed
real
None of us do that this point
what 7 years with no update does to mfs (plural)
When you want fun alternative options instead of shitty, boring side grades in a video game:
This whole thing sounds like one of those "If TF2 Was Updated by a Bot" videos.
-...
-Heavy. You. Are. Fired. Forever.
Yeah it totally does
Preach my brother, PREACH
These are some psychotic balance changes and im still only in the heavy section
Ok yea, I can't finish the video what the actual fuck were you thinking lol
I look forwards to the follow up video of how the server instantly became heavy v heavy class wars
He gave heavy the most busted free mobility I've ever had the displeasure to see come through fruition lmao
Edit: nvm Dalokahs bar doesnt fully refill GRU hp drain its fine
Medic buffed to have a syringe gun capable of solo defense and health on melee kill as the second fastest class in the game, heavy buffed across almost every unlock, quick fix untouched, diamondback2back not dealing enough on the crit to be remotely useful. Grouch definitely has a sick and twisted mind. (I hope I'm not being too mean though, I recognize you probably put a lot of work into this and certainly hope that the tests go well and everyone has fun, just baffled at where you got these ideas from)
Thanks for the feedback! It's not rude at all! I will fully admit to being a noob at multiplayer game balance since most of the games I've made are singleplayer. That's why I'm excited to try these changes out and see what you guys think! Your critique of the Diamond Back-To-Back is probably true but I wanted to stay on the safe side for the first playtest since, as you pointed out, a lot of the buffs are already pretty strong.
But as for Heavy... Let's be honest, he basically has one loadout: Tomislav, Sandwich, GRU. (Or maybe stock minigun if you're really feeling frisky.) He definitely needed some big sweeping buffs so we could see a little variation is his gameplay, at least in my opinion. Did I go too far with them? Possibly! Only one way to find out, really.
Same with Medic: If you're not running the Crossbow and Ubersaw, you're basically not even playing the class. I really don't think a Medic gaining some overheal is gonna be significantly better than gaining 25-75% Uber.
And the Quick-Fix is the GOAT. I'll explain in a later video. It. Is. The. GOAT.
"the kunai already looks like a throwing knife"
how do we tell him
You mean the fact the kunai isn't?
@@soundrogue4472 no, the kunai is based off of a real throwing knife
@@idkwho5339 Where; what knife.
What if it's based off the fictional uses of a real tool đą
â@@soundrogue4472the Kunai, used by feudal Japanese farmers and in Shinobi disciplines. It's a shovel, climbing implement, and if the need arises, a thrown weapon used to cut.
dont let this guy cook ever again
Yessir
Fr
Cook? This guy burned down the kitchen.
@@GegiTheGodHE NUKED THE KITCHEN 50+ TIMES!!!!!!!
That Dalokohs ''buff'' is such a huge nerf tho. Only 50 health and then you have to continue waiting a few seconds before you can get another 50? That's horrendous. Dalokohs ON RELEASE had unlimited uses and still gave you 100 health each time. Only downside was u couldn't share with friendly players. This thing is just frustrating.
Underselling the Dalokohs bar's bonus health is just batshit too. "Oh it's bad because Medic."
No, it's good BECAUSE you don't need Medic. You're the Heavy. You take the heat of the focus fire to keep your team healthy. If the Medic can spend LESS time healing you/babysitting you, that's more time to support other players on your team.
The Bar has ALWAYS been the Solo-Heavy lunchbox item. I always tell Medics on my team when I'm running it not to pocket me and I always see my teammates last longer in teamfights because of it. The Dalokohs Bar is ironically the least selfish lunchbox item because it encourages you to fend for yourself while your team gets more benefit from Medics, Medkits, and Crossbow bolts.
This "buffed" version sucks ass.
Today i learned some people actually think the chocolate is ok even thought it sucks shit
The dalakohs would be great with twice as fast consume speed, but he already gave that to the buffalo even though it does nothing for the weapon, so I guess he just had to try to up the ante.
His dalokohs idea just completely kills the heavy gameplay loop
Oops I took a couple of rockets, let me spend more time repeating the animation instead of fully repeating my health with a sandwich
u were kinda cooking until the snipers started hopping around 10 feet in the air
that's the best part wym
@@HeyGrouchyea fr idk what this guy is talking about
@@HeyGrouch It should probably be an ability and not passive
@@AppzyCatyeah I agree
â@@AppzyCatgood Idea
Dead honest, I disagree with half of these changes but itâs still fun to see what kind of stuff you came up with
These are hilarious and made me cry (in despair). If these were added it would be an amazing April fools update
Yeah that's basically the vibe I was hoping to get :)
>soldier main
>50 hours in game
>nerfs spy
lmao
You expect a lot in tf2 balance discussions, good ideas, bad ideas, weird ideas, what you donât expect is for a spy to âgo go gadget extendo-rangeâ their knife into someoneâs spine, and Iâm not even mad
I think it could actually work, too, as long as the spy temporarily lost his knife afterward
@@burnttoast5372 that could be made into something nice, like, kunai has an actually significantly increased melee range, but you need to wait for it to recahrge because you threw it.
thing is at that point is it even a melee?
every part of this video made me mad
yes
i am an engineer main and all of the changes are absolutely ass with exception of the jag
â@@SaintRedFox even the jag's change is ass, the original jag already takes like 3 hits to destroy a sapper.
@@somefries3101 thats why i personally consider the jag is ass, 3 hits to destroy a sapper means you are getting atleast 1 out of 3 of your buildings destroyed most of the time, i dont think the quick bulding speed is worth for buildings you are going to loss quickier
@@SaintRedFox true but the uploader considers it OP for no reason.
This is why we don't let the community balance the game.
I want you tonightâŠ..
This is exactly *why* we should let the community balance the game. If he got more input on some of the subjects he seems to know less about (like engineer), it would really help these decisions. The sniper changes alone would really make the game more fun as a whole.
â@@Sirebellum1337 Yeah but the execution is the problem since there are several gamemodes that make several weapon useless but some are useful (eg. Tomislav is mediocore in MvM but good in Casual while Brass Beast is too situational in Casual but generally effective in MvM, anything except scout, soldier, demoman and medic is too situational in competitive 6's but every class is generally fine in Casual, etc.). In addition, there is always player bias so 6's player is more inclined to say sniper doesn't nessesary need nerf in 6's (unless using banned weapon or exploit in those mode) but Casual player inclined to say he desperately need nerfs in Casual so you can't sastify everyone.
@@Sirebellum1337 lol
@@Sirebellum1337 It would be so fun if the most broken class in the game received a significant buff to their biggest weakness!!!
The Dunning-Kruger Effect : The Video
hey bud wanna learn about the irony behind the dunning kruger effect?
Welcome as we introduce a balance update made by a Reddit user
the caber "buff" screamed so much reddit
â@@SaintRedFoxhe doesnt realize that the only reason why caberknight is the only caber playstyle is because its garbage and near useless on regular demoman
This is what you get for letting an extremely casual player make long-term balance for the game
There ain't no way you people use the term "redditor" unironically
â@@SwagOverload1 not a single person here used the word redditor except you
A lot of these arenât straight buffs or nerfs but complete reworks
Yes! :)
â@@HeyGrouch That's not a good thing.
@@tttttttttttttttp12 Agreed
â@@HeyGrouch what were you smoking for the enforcer
I'm glad you realised that the Gas Passer was perfect just the way it is and left it unchanged, it's used for psychological warfare, no one expects the green cloud of death
IDK the fact that it doesnt come back when you respawn is criminal, though i hate the entire concept for the Gas Passer so maybe its for the best
Lmfao I just realised that
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!
what the hell were you thanking with the danger shield man
WHY IS IT THE SODA POPPER
@@orangeauroraworse, itâs permanent
A lot of times these rebalances do not account for how annoying it could be to fight many of these weapons. Sniper can jump around and move fast while shooting huntsman arrows? That's like a FaN scout with infinite critical hits.
âGuys I balanced the weapons!â Makes unnecessary reworks, creates demonstrably worse or situational weapons, nerfs the worst class in the game, makes sniper changes that contradict each other
Yeah man great stuff
exactly
"Let's punish spy harder!" The video
I can't believe you made this video and didn't mention the wrangler, as an engineer main, it's OP.
when im fighting an ubered demo but he doesnt im about to press the number 2 on my keyboard
I can't believe it either. In my notes I had a suggestion to make it mark the Engie for death and I just... Forgot to do it. Whoops.
â@@HeyGrouch maybe for a later video with the other weapons you didnt mention?
âââ@@HeyGrouchi think more interesting would be to give the shield to an engi
With a death mark any competent engineer will just keep turtling behind the sentry and nothing changes
The shield on engi instead of sentry will encourage more interesting gameplay: do i stand in front of sentry to deny damage but block its line of fire? Do i keep repairing sentry or pull out wrangler for more dps but risking its survivability? And so on
(Also it will allow engineer market gardener, hooray)
You know his video Sus when he doesn't even nerf the most universally agreed op unlock đ
I'm so glad the eureka effect now gives enemy spies a free passage to our spawn!
I thought it was a fair balance honestly.
@@MystralThunderhalf of your sentry damage nerfs, engi is weak against a strong push but now he's even weak to a medium push
â@@MystralThunder it's a garbage change fym
This is terrible. Someone who has NO understanding of how tf2 works and how it's balanced speaking with such confidence.
agreed
Really?
@@Turtleboilol Yes really, he's speaking with such arrogance while still spewing some of the most lunatic balance changes I've ever seen. Even an AI-generated site can provide you with much more interesting concepts than this.
â @@miraculeweep5811
Could you give me examples of balance changes he made that sounded so âlunaticâ to you?
@@Turtleboilol Very simple:
1- If you use the Candy Cane, you have to steal every small medpack in the map otherwise you get sneezed at not only against the same classes you used to but now every class that can deal damage
2- Changing the Scorch Shot from an annoyance to a crutch that's even more spammable and irritating to fight against
3- The Sharpened Volcanic Fragment now becomes a toxic weapon that's not even good at being toxic. (Seriously why the bleed on top of the afterburn ?)
4- WHY IS THE ULLAPOOL CABER A NEUTRAL SKIP BOOM BUTTON WITH RANDOM CRITS ?!!
5- Changing a sidegrade grenade launcher like the Iron Bomber to make it the absolute meta primary weapon for Demo: either you use this or you just don't play Demo at all
6- Replacing the slow bullets from the Natascha to no speed debuffs when deployed while losing max HP: Funky Kong Flame Runner type beat
7- One of the most pointless changes I've ever seen on any weapon: why even give the Brass Beast twice the amount of ammo he has ? If you know how to use it, you don't even need to worry about ammo management
8- Making the Huo-Long Heater a worse weapon by default but once you get the gimmick off, it becomes slightly more useable while not addressing the ring of fire hiding 50% of your lower screen and the ammo drain
9- Trying to make the Fat Scout subclass more viable by not giving him a primary weapon for it but by making the Family Business a must-run that gimps every Minigun option.
10- For "just a quick snack", he has nerfed off one of the most interesting techniques that you can do with the Dalokohs Bar and the GRU (look up "Dalokohs Flash") when those changes would have been better on the Second Banana
11- The Steak that doesn't get his hidden damage vulnerability stat removed and still locks you with melee for the sake of eating it faster
12- Why even change the Pomson's reload speed ? That's one of the 3 major problems with that weapon and the other two are just being overshadowed by the fact that it's now a middle finger to the worst class in the game. It's not necessary
13- Making such drastic changes to the Eureka Effect and nerfing the Jag out of spite really tells me he doesn't know how Engi works: he's supposed to switch loadouts to get his setup running (Eureka first for the cheap TP then Jag to get it done quick). As an Engi main, I feel offended.
14- The Vaccinator went from an oppressive Medigun to a parrying weapon that 95% of the playerbase won't use correctly because they can't even organize themselves to ĂŒber push let alone time it to rockets. And 380 HP on a Heavy with the Dalokohs Bar, that doesn't go away.
15- Doing a HiGPS and change stock weapons without applying it to the other unlocks (and not even good changes at that)
16- the Overdose just lets you become the TFC Medic again. Just because he thought it was a good idea to give a speed buff to the 2nd fastest class in the game.
17- The Blutsauger is one of the most redundant weapons in the game with those changes. It's the Candy Cane all over again.
18- Why is it with those videos that wanna give the Medic a goddamn Eyelander with the Vita-Saw ? The fact that it happened twice is shocking to me
19- "911, I would like to report the murder of the Hitman's Heatmaker"
20- I don't understand why even change the Razorback to give you more HP but you just can't tank a backstab anymore, it becomes way worse as a result
21- In his video, Grouch complained that the ammo the primaries have is way too much, which is understandable (that is one of the many complains about this class). My question is "WHY DOES HE GIVE THE COZY CAMPER UP TO 40 AMMO ON EVERY PRIMARY ?!!" Does he not go back and check on his script ? That's a very big mistake being left out
22- The Darwin's Danger Shield... Need I say more ? Do I really need to tell you why giving a weapon that lets him take any spot in the map a bad idea ?
23- Yet another HiGPS change by making the Shahanshah one of the worst melee designs ever. STOP TRYING TO MAKE THIS GIMMICK WORK, IT WON'T EVER BE VIABLE. IT'S A GODDAMN MELEE WEAPON THAT YOU NEED TO BE AT 50 HP FOR IT TO DO ANYTHING
24- The Tribalman's Shiv changes were so inconsequential I don't even have anything to say about it. You'll do nothing if you use that weapon
25- Seriously, why did he think it was a good idea to change the Enforcer to the Tranquilizer from TF2C with bleed ?
26- I understand that the Diamondback needs to have a nerf in some way. But he absolutely took that weapon and crippled it so hard it's a shadow of it's former self.
27- Introducing the new crutch for Spy mains with the rework of the Kunai! Do you really wanna get those stabs at the same range as the Disciplinary Action while also spamming the Dead Ringer ? No ? Well too bad! That's what you're gonna get with this.
28- No Gas Passer ? No Equalizer ? No Baby Face's Blaster ? No Classic ? No Sun on a Stick ?
5:38 "it still has seven shots"
it has eight.
i'm an idiot
@@HeyGrouch this whole video is dumb ngl
đ€âïž
â@@keltonthepara oh so correcting someone is nerd now whats next get a good grade?
Just goes to show just how Not that many people play my 2nd favourite class
The changes get more deranged the longer I look at the video
>all sniper rifles get tracer rounds & half ammo bcuz heâs too hiddenđ
>danger shield now makes him a scout with a rail gunđ
>hitmanâs heatmaker doesnât get tracers until itâs too late and already obliterating the opposing teamđ
>cozy camper gives you an ungodly amount of max ammo, completely negating the ammo nerf across the boardđ„°
>shahansha now smites any player that gets close, paring incredibly well with the previously stated danger shield changeđ
>scouts also fine and needs no nerf lolđ
Iâm just flabbergasted
DDS is absolutely insane for me, how can you think "yeah lets give sniper whats essentially scouts double jump" and think thats completely fine, how many hours do this person even has on the game?????
â@@SaintRedFox If i am not wrong, He never play test at least in full server before this video came out so that's the outcome (and he never though weapon combination to be broken except the vanilla's already existing one like Phlogisnator + Scorch Shot). Also some underpowered and overpowered weapons are forgotten in the video like gas passer and wrangler so this is just the first step into of him making his own rebalance server.
I personally think he needs to leave sniper alone, snipers only a problem with bots and people cheating. If theirs a god tier sniper on the enemy team youâre only way to kill him is to have good team coercion.
â@@snowrgl the fact that coordinating your team, an incredibly difficult task, is the only way to deal with a cracked sniper speaks to volumes about how little counterplay he has. Sniper is not fine.
@@tttttttttttttttp12 I mean, thatâs how it is and it shouldnât be changed due to how skill ceilings are. If you make it to that level legit, you shouldnât be punished for doing that good. Just my opinion. I feel that itâs fine after my 10k hours in TF2. Then again I main sniper so my opinion is obviously in favor of how he is now.
Bro cooked when no-one was at kitchen, and burnt the entire thing down đđđ
As Hakita said, "it's good thing you aren't making Ultrakill, otherwise it would be shit", just replace Ultrakill with TF2 đ
Never let bro cook again
Fuck he was on when changing the enforcer lmfaoooooo
Your main annoyance with sniper is that he is able to shoot you from positions that are far away, difficult to communicate about, and are immensely difficult to spot. And then you changed the weapons so that there is now a loadout (hitmans + danger shield) that makes this exact issue worse. I, personally, have never felt that sniper being able to shoot you from faraway without you having an idea of where he is that big of an issue, that's literally a sniper's whole gimmick (both in games and in actual warfare), and unless you're dealing with a sniper god, no sniper is insanely difficult to deal with due to their positioning (plus there's a level of predictability as to where a sniper is that you're overlooking). Thus, by making this loadout which allows sniper to "go where no Sniper has ever gone before", I think you've really only made it a thing where people who are insanely good at sniper (which is the group that would really perpetuate your initial grievance in the first place) can now basically nest in completely insane locations and be an even bigger nuisance than before, you even acknowledged this in passing, but that doesn't address that it is a fatal flaw and just reintroduces the issue you claimed to have fixed to a degree. I would like to hear your thoughts on this, if you have the time
The one and only correct way to fix sniper is setting their max class count per team to 0 in the server options
Yeah, I think he just canât be bothered to peek sightlines. Sniper is fine as is, besides when theirs bots and people who use aimbot and walls.
â@@snowrgl Sniper is absolutely not fine. His main problem is that he has no counterplay.
â@@tttttttttttttttp12 There's a reason why sniper aren't dominating every single server in this game.
@@NothingMeansNothingButNothing Yeah, the reason is that most snipers aren't good enough to dominate games yet. But when one does, it's an awful experience. Just because it doesn't happen often doesn't mean it's ok when it does happen.
4:34 I can't get over how the re-design of the Dalokohs Bar would make the Second Banana irrelevant.
It's joever for banana bros, they'll NEVAH recover from this đ
50 hp per eat is still terrible
If it was also 75 more hp or maybe the 50 max hp stacks with overheal then it woulda been better
"Mental sickness!"
-Sniper, 2009
the candy cane is absolutely NOT it imo. going from getting oneshot from explosives to getting oneshot by like 80% of the games weapons doesnt make the better healthpacks worth it in the slightest
You should go on the server and try it :) Some were calling it OP, lol
@@HeyGrouch they suck at this game then đżđżđż
â@@HeyGrouch short term balance does not equal long term balance. Spy used to be powerful and scary and Sniper used to not be at the community's forefront of most OP/busted classes. The community learned how to counter Spy, and good Sniper mains and bots made the community realize that Sniper can't be countered. I don't think you've had enough evidence/ time to prove that the candy cane will stay balanced.
You leave my Billion Dollar Natasha alone
L
Love you
And my favorite shotgun got changed to. My heavy loadout are ruined
Somehow I knew u were here
no that thing needs its slowdown removed
never let him cook again
Congrats, you destroyed TF2's game balance lol
congrats its only on a community server
@@Grayson-tk5hn So? Point still stands.
â@@Grayson-tk5hn server nobody will play on
@@CharaGonzalez-lt7yw speak for yourself
@@Grayson-tk5hn I'm just saying how it is. Vanilla tf2 servers are the highest demand, a server with God awful balance is not on anyone's bucket list to play
This is the best rage bait ive seen on youtube in years
Itd be too much effort to be a rage bait lmao
Just a proposal for my favorite garbage, the sharpened volcano fragment.
What if it just basically worked like the scythe from TFclassic? You hold it out while someone is burning and it charges a meter for a guaranteed crit... that also explodes because it is a volcano...
sounds a lot like the Manmelter if it's a melee weapon
never let this man design a game ever
Bait used to be believable.
i played a few rounds as natascha heavy and it was as OP as i thought it would be. some enemies literally couldn't even run away from me because the difference between their speed and the heavy speed wasn't big enough. thanks for hosting the server, its good to see people actually doing something about balance problems instead of just complaining and hoping someone else does something đ
yeah, natascha is getting nerfed ASAP lol. Thanks for playing!!!
@@HeyGrouch some of the heavy reworks are really funny cuz they speed up the heavy's taunt animations (like the dalokus bar - the conga is super funny with it)
Hereâs a pretty good change; keep the de speed equivalent to hi walk speed, but reduce his walk speed by 20-25%. Also increase his time to rev and now there is a more conscious decision to rev or not rev
@@HeyGrouch it's useless now, getting to 100 health in like 10 seconds makes heavy super weak even if he can move faster, dies in a single direct pipe
âââ@@HeyGrouchIf possible, make Natasha consumes ammo on revved up or (and) decrease movement speed while firing.(like 50% faster movement on revved up, and 30% on firing). If 1 design:chases became not long = escape easier, more time-based. 2 design: will stop chases fully.
I think you overvalue bleed effects, it doesn't have the same combo potential that burn does and is only slightly harder to get rid of it
yeah, that seems to be the consensus. i'll probably have to make another enforcer change in the future :)
Completely lost me at the danger shield... wtf
"The phlog isn't OP, it's the scorch shot's fault!"
*makes the scorch shot able to burn a lot of people on a chokepoint*
Bro has never played tf2
enforcer design sucks, while yes, you could disable his aim by flinching, you could also disable it by, i dunno, killing him?
I think the idea is that you can pop a sniper from far away to neutralize them. You also don't have to be behind them, so you can use to before sneaking behind the back line. It seems to fit with the spy's disrupter role.
Also, you should work on giving constructive criticism. Instead of saying something sucks, you could instead try to explain why you don't like it and how it could be improved.
@@zakkfilms He's spy though. Why not... just stab the sniper and instantly kill him? Or shoot him with the new ambassador if he's low and basically one or two shot another class? Or just shoot him with the regular revolver. That and, what are you gonna use the enforcer against besides a single lone enemy? The old Enforcer was useless and this one made it good against only really weak classes that you could have just stabbed and killed instantly with spy's regular weapons or just shot to death with his REGULAR revolver.
It's a side-grade that isn't special enough or useful enough to justify using.
@@Asa-ov9mj its basically a situational weapon but the situation its supposed to excel at is done better by stock
@@bucket6079 So the current enforcer but even worse
This whole video is bloated with bad ideas that either ruins the weapon or completely goes against the true porpuse of the weapon.
Grouch cooks the worst balance changes
asked to killbind
It's a good thing you guys aren't designing ultrakill or else it would suck. -Hakita
The first sentence that comes to mind.
I'm willing to give it a try, but I'm going to say I hate the proposed change to the Eureka Effect. The current metal penalty is counteracted by the fact that you can teleport to spawn for metal, which can be doubly critical when a spy's sapping your entire team's teleporter line.
While its very much noticable, the metal penalty's something I've learned to play around. I've got the rhythm of a eureka rollout basically down to muscle memory - drop an entrance and dispenser at spawn, grab a medium ammo on the way to the front lines, exit and sentry at my nest location, and then upgrading my stuff with teleportation. Either that or threaten my soldiers' kneecaps because he stole my metal. Seriously, how hard is it to not rocket jump rollout? You literally have a whole minute, just walk!
Compromising the backbone of your defense to remove a penalty to metal which the weapon already counteracts means you're not actually capable of doing your own job.
It might also be weird on visibility - a mini-sentry distinctly shows that it's weaker than usual, but with this there's no such indication.
Actually - couldnt you teleport back to spawn and then swap to a better wrench? You can do that with the current EE and it even keeps your discounted teleporters.
Thanks for the feedback! The Eureka Effect was definitely one I was hesitant about. I'm glad I get to hear the perspective of a more seasoned EE user. Do you think there is anything weak/wrong with TF2's official Eureka Effect? If so, what would you change? :)
I feel like his proposal could be a new weapon
@@HeyGrouch Honestly, the biggest issues with the Eureka Effect are systemic ones rather than an issue on the wrench iteself - teammates stealing your metal during setup time, and the locations of resupply cabinets in spawn rooms being inconsistent. There are some maps where resupply cabinets are super far from your spawn point, and on 5CP maps forward spawns often dont have them at all - not what you want to see when you're 5 seconds away from burning to death.
So, two small game-wide buffs I would propose (which would incidentally help all engineers, but I don't see that as a downside)
1. During setup time, all weapons have infinite reserve ammo. Mostly prevents soldiers and demomen from stealing your precious metal. Notably this shouldnt extend to metal, so no setting up cheesy spots that should be impossible to upgrade in.
2. When the Eureka Effect taunt-teleports to spawn, your health and ammo are fully restocked. Basically removes the second of having to figure out where you are and where the closest cabinet is, so right after you finish you can teleport right back to your nest. A few maps have spawn rooms where you can do this naturally - having a wrench's strengths shoot up randomly depending on the spawn room geometry is silly.
Yeah, that's all the changes I can think of. -20% metal is definitely noticable, but it's a price I happily pay for breaking spacetime at will. Even with the delay of having to taunt.
Getting only 32 metal instead of 40 from a dispenser can be annoying, especially when that's the last bit you need for an upgrade? But if it's yours you can just stand on the dispenser to force it to cough up twice as much, and if it's not yours... You have at-will respawn cabinets.
Speaking of - do you mind if I gush about that for a second? Well, if you do you can just click off, nobody's holding you hostage.
The teleportation! Sure, there's the sneaky ninjaneer thing, but also even just for regular use it's so good. Spy sapping your entrance? Anyone else has to walk like a pleb, but you can have it back up in a jiffy and then get back to the frontline with nearly zero downtime. Two-way Teleporter could only dream of that. A bunch of teammates respawning and racing for the teleporter? Nah, you don't need to let that slow you down.
It has great synergy with other engineers! During setup, you dont need to fight over metal - doubly so if your allies upgrade your setup at spawn before you teleport back to pick it up. You can use it to hold angles that would be impossible for other engineers, creating a crossfire killzone. You know Dustbowl Last's first point? The one where every engineer ever holds the hallway right out of spawn because a sentry by the house is going to get obliterated? Admittedly, even at-will resupply lockers can't save you from the inevitable uber in the first 30 seconds if your team can't coutner-uber. But what you can do is sneak a teleporter back there and get your nest rebuilt in 30 seconds.
You can use it to get value out of teleporters in situations where actually setting up teleporters would be impossible! Like, again, dustbowl last. On the final point, the outside of spawn has a nobuild zone - any entrances out there will get spammed to death. But with the Eureka Effect, you don't need an entrance. I like to set my tele by the medium healthpack in the house, which lets me have a sentry that covers the canyon, bridge, and point all at once. You can also rotate around to cover the usual entrance of that house, if nobody else is. The only route it doesnt cover is the left house, unless you use the wrangler. But only a monster would do that.
Admittedly, it's not always the best choice. In MVM its not nearly as valuable, and on some maps even a lone exit isn't possible. But thatd be true of any wrench, and even the class as a whole. It has its weaknesses, but in exchange it's like a whole new playstyle.
A playstyle that mostly revolves around you sitting behind your sentry like usual, true... but in different spots.
What can I say? I like this wrench.
Eureka effect is my favorite wrench, and I use it for everything.
I used to use other wrenches, particularly the jag, all the time until I got into the EE's sheer utility. Teleporting back to spawn to fix teleporters entirely negates one of engie's traditional weaknesses. I think atm it could definitely be his strongest overall wrench, with only the jag's ability to build fast as fuck as proper competition
Ngl, I think the biggest sin of this video was thinking the family business has 7 shots in the clip when it actually has 8
Thatâs how you know he doesnât actually play the game
"time to rebalance a weapon I've never really used and make them "fixed", I'm sure the people who use these weapons will like it"
I'm gonna be 100% real, this is the worst TF2 "essay" video I've had the displeasure to witness. Everything in this video is either factually incorrect or counteracted with some of the most outlandish changes ever.
And I thought HiGPS' balance changes were bad...
Sincerely, with all due respect,
Get out of that kitchen before Valve's HQ burns to the ground â â â
Idk, I like wackh ways to balance games and literally new ideas for weapons.
@@Des_fa 1- This isn't a party game like Mario Party, it's a goddamn FPS.
2- His video title is "Fixing TF2's Terrible Weapons" not "New TF2 Weapon Suggestions", I'm judging it as the video is presented as.
ââ@@miraculeweep5811 yeah, this video wouldn't even be judged half as harsh if he didn't present it like he knew what he was doing. Lol.
The Enforcer changes were a massive nerf. You know whatâs better than bleed? Killing your opponent.
He literally made the enforcer the worst weapon in the game đ
ALSO JESUS CHRIST WHY DID YOU MAKE THE HUO LONG A LONG RANGE WEAPON ITâS A FUCKING MINIGUN THATâS THE POLAR OPPOSITE OF WHAT HEAVY IS SUPPOSED TO DO AND NOT IN A FUN AND ENGAGING WAY LIKE TROLLDIER OR DEMOKNIGHT
Besides the heater is fine, TF2 players just hate when they're presented with a weapon that encourages thinking about what you're doing in-game more (aka good positioning as HEAVY)
There are some gold nuggets in-between tons of coal
In my opinion 99% of the tf2 weapons should just get some minor changes. Although I love the idea of the bison and pomson being some sort of a burst fire gun and sniper having his ammo halved, you definitely lost me when snipers started jumping like frogs or spies throwing their knives
And then even then spy gets r***d to death because of the fucking Pomson
imo the diamond back change is pretty awful, your idea of what would happen just wouldnt normally happen consistently enough for it to be that good, mainly because it keeps its innaccuracy on the 2nd shot which can absolutely make you miss the 2nd shot, not only that a basic revolver would do the same job just better.
A better change would to let it deal more damage to lower health enemys and less to higher health if you want to really play into the idea of it being a finisher. Otherwise the change is terrible and not logical by tf2 standards.
Enforcer change alone makes me think this is a shitpost instead of a genuine video.
A nice thing to pull in spy mains too would be reverting the YER cloak drain nerf valve added arbitrarily to it.
I understand the sniper part, but bro just murdered snipers ONLY balanced gun
NEVER COOK AGAINđđđđ
he burnt down the whole kitchenđđ
This is a perfect example of why the community should not handle a game's balance changes.
On behalf of fishsicks on a sick:
WHAT THE F***!??!?!!?!??!??
Bro watched 1 Great Blue video and thought "I can do that".
lol
I feel like the heatmans heatmaker just undos the entire fix for sniper you proposed, the issue is that high skill snipers are extremely difficult to deal with, by making this gun you have empowered high skill snipers in your version of the game, making your nerf basically useless, I don't understand the point of this.
Perhaps. Hitmans could always get a nerf in the future. My thinking was to allow for tryhards to, well, try hard- but to force them to actually play extremely well and not allow them to go for cheap bodyshots
Sniper doesn't need a nerf
The Eureka Effect is Engineer's best wrench when fully set up (except on last). Destroying its defensive capabilities for an MvM upgrade - as well as stating that you're having no fun while using it - prooves that you have no idea how Engineer plays at all and how his weapons play into that.
No Sandman? No baby face bluster? No bonk? And heâs thinks scouts okay? What?
With you'r change Heavy eats dalokosh bar so fast it can't heal him full 100 health
I feel like this was made by a TF2 fan that doesn't actually play TF2
I donât play tf2 I am shocked and outraged by everything this guy said.
It's like that one redditor in the TF2 sub that wanted to rework some weapons and decided to give the Minigun a "bullet speed" buff.
Why did you make the Enforcer even worse? I mean why shoot a sniper and make him bleed when you can just flank him or something and backstab him?
I love you but dawg you canât say âIâve never actually used these weapons lolâ 3 minutes into a video about weapon rebalancing
omfg he did say that đŹ
you were not cooking as hard as you thought dude đ
French
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The kunai doesn't deserve such a harsh nerf/rework. You make it sound as if getting the first stab is a walk in the park for a "stealth class" when in reality the sheer chaos of a typical match is bound to get you killed unless you really know what you're doing. When you do get a stab, congrats! You're still just a medium health class with a knife and a pea shooter, so it'll rarely change the outcome of any one-on-one fights with competent players, it's just meant to help you run away. The only case against the kunai is that it's unfun to fight against in the hands of a pubstomper who can just get stabs back to back, which can just be fixed by tweaking the max overheal or something like that. Running into somebody that good isn't that common anyway.
IMO you're kinda missing the point by reworking some of these weapons so much. You're just deleting the weapon and making a new one with the same skin (tbf Valve is also guilty of that).
Spy backstab detection.
No way you left the baby faces blaster and the sandman unchanged
tbh baby faces is actually fine if you don't play against pyros
@@Capiosus heavys, sentry, splash damage anything than does 25 already removes your bar like for real lol
@@tiorast6802 splash is pretty easy to avoid when youâre at max speed, heavies generally also have issues hitting fast scouts, but yea sentries do still kill you like a regular scout
@@tiorast6802 splash is pretty easy to avoid when youâre at max speed, heavies generally also have issues hitting fast scouts, but yea sentries do still kill you like a regular scout
@@Capiosus False
I feel like this video is why valve gave up on the tf2 community
HOW DID YOU EVEN MAKE THE ENFORCER WORSE!?!?!?
I'm seeing a lot of negativity in the comments, so I'll offer my perspective: I think most people want to keep the spirit of each weapon as close to its current feeling as possible while turning them into actual sidegrades. Huge changes might be necessary for some weapons, but most of them should just have some stat changes IMO.
Makes sense. I personally wanted to add fresh new toys people could play with rather than just balance changes. I guess I should have made that more clear in the video :P
â@@HeyGrouchyou said you want to fix weapons not remake them
The Razorback doesnât not allow overheal to stop revolver shots lol itâs so they canât tank quickscopes, now youâve given the sniper his free âI win the sniper duelâ item back
Nah. Quickscopes still do 150 damage so he'll be dead.
@@Fatsaver An overheated sniper has more than 150 health?? đ
@@Ludee27 overheated?
@@Fatsaver overhealed fool
This video should have been released in April fool's day
I disliked this video before it was cool.
same
You were dropped on your head repeatedly as a child, you got bounced around like a basketball, must be why your nickname is double dribble. -FLEEKAZOID
There are some great ideas in this video, but the snarky "I'm so smart" attitude makes you come of as a narcissist,
especially when you market a change that completely ruins a weapon as a """buff""".
Please never make balance changes again these were awful
agreed
I disagree
you know who else had the worst balancing decisions? VALVE.
People can get better with time. Giving feedback would be way more helpful than complaining.
@@logangoetz4319 atleast valve never thought giving sniper higher jump height was a good idea
@@SaintRedFox higher jump height could be a good idea, it was just done way too extreme.
Natascha rework?
Fucking thank you
That thing was designed by someone who had already put in their 2 weeks notice
It was designed by the potted plant because he got tired of being the only one stuck in place all the time
@@HeyGrouch Honestly I'll gladly switch the slow down for me being the same speed as I walk. I'll finally be able to enjoy using Natascha for it's gun firing sound.
the fact that the counter to present natasha is to spam a/d is so bad
So I'm assuming you replaced the slowdown buff with the walkspeed buffâ, and kept the other stats as is?@HeyGrouch
Bro don't you understand that the rev speed being the same as the walking one is BUSTED. I disliked the video the instance i heard that. This man shouldn't speak on the matters of tf2 balance ever again
âScout has no broken weaponsâ nahhh who let him cook đ
never let him cook again đ
Honestly i cannot think of a broken weapon that he has.
we need better security man
@@raptormage2209 Sun on the Stick sucks, Back-Scatter is underwhelming, Crit-A-Cola/Soda-Popper are still kinda obnoxious...
@@TrustyGun2 none of them are really broken tho
is this satire?
dont ever let this bozo cook EVER agaib đđđ
With that caber buff, you can basically just add sentry busters to casual.
He should make a sentry buster line play when the caber demo respawns
Great changes because demo doesn't get enough self damage from his other weapons! Truly great design
World's most elaborate shitpost
this is the most casual garbage i have ever heard
I have a problem with the sniper rework: the problem with sniper isnât that heâs too hard to spot, itâs that the skill ceiling is WAY too high.
The fact a good sniper can effectively shut down an entire game is beyond broken(as even ValvE admits that they had no idea that people would put thousands of hours to perfectly master sniper)
The main problem being how a good sniper can do 150 damage in one shot at ANY range instantly. My suggestion is to remove the ability to crit on headshot unless fully charged, and being partially charged will do only mini-crits.
It will force snipers to be scoped in and be vulnerable to flanking attackers, and promote good positioning. If you get headshot once, youâll now know not to peek that specific sightline.
It also has the added benefit of making cheating aimbots more easy to deal with, as it only takes one sacrificial class and a soldier/demo to take out a swarm of bots(they would all target the first guy, and give the solider enough time to peek the sightline and shoot multiple rockets to obliterate the bots) This tactic will also work when dealing with sightlines(you see your teammate get his head popped off by a sniper when he turned that corner. You have the choice to either: avoid the sightline and take a different route, or take some potshots while they are vulnerable to potentially avenge your fallen comrade and/or simply scare the enemy sniper away.
Having tracer rounds does nothing to prevent a good sniper from just picking off your entire team one by one(the Machina is still used extensively, despite having tracers)
I will give credit where itâs due: I like the idea of having less primary ammo.
Thanks for the input! I'd really like to refrain from balancing around bots, you know? Feels like it's letting them win. But I do see your point. Maybe I'll try that sometime!
@@HeyGrouch well, itâs not even primarily against bots, itâs more of an added bonus.
Quickscoping is still ridiculous, and itâs even more so when you remember that a decent sniper only has to account for horizontal positioning of the crosshair, as their crosshair should be at a general y elevation with little to no adjustment necessary most of the time.
Think about it: you know the general height of all 9 classes, and you arenât going to aim low if you know that you will get 3x damage if you hit their head.
Its not the fresh installs that you need to worry about, its the many sniper mains who know basic game mechanics that will dominate the entire game, completely ignoring positioning because they are unable to be âpunishedâ for bad positioning if they can just drop 7/9 classes in 0.2 seconds if they get too close.
cool, but that'll make the linear class even more linear and one-note and FUCK THOSE 4000 HOUR SNIPERS dare they hone their skills on a broken class FUCKEM
I play in Tc2 (yeah...roblox game) and there sniper has much better balance. Like this fews nerfs:
While you on scope-tracer.
Damage on scope starts
WHAT ARE SOME OF THESE CHANGES.
I FEEL LIKE I'M WATCHING SOMEONE THAT TOOK 1 CLASS ON GAME BALANCE THAT HE WASN'T PAYING ATTENTION TO AND THOUGHT "I know enough to balance things".
You even admitted in the video that with some of the weapons you never even bothered play testing them.
This is the playtest my friend
This video really shows what happens when you're left in a bubble with no moderation or other form of criticism.
Who let bro cook
Alright half a minute into the video i see the candy cane get called useless
Dude you are on some hard stuff over there, where can buy them?
might be the balance changes ever proposed to date, this is why valve is the one that makes the weapons and not the community
The L'exécuteur's entire point of flinching a Sniper is nullified by the cosy camper, which you buffed.
I know when another soldier main is talking
"When two thieves meet they need no introduction."