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Guild Wars 2 Living World Is Dead, Yearly Expansions Announced
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- čas přidán 14. 08. 2024
- Could there possibly be bigger news except an expansion announcement itself? Studio Update 2023 has huge details for the next 6 months and the future for the MMO!
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If they can commit to this plan and keep the pace up, I think it’s a great move. I don’t mind less maps if it means higher quality content or meatier story releases.
indeed, only one additional map per full cycle, of which a portion is ready at launch, without a meta event or adventures... idk feels a little too little compared to say Bjora Marches, of which the first half felt self-contained content- and system-wise... but I guess we'll know more soon enough.
@@perisemiotics3204 agreed. PoF didn't have a final meta map, EoD felt rushed story-wise, now what? It looks like they just want to get quick money with less effort, which hurts players in the long run. I'm not optimistic.
It's all BS marketing, Living world content gets renamed to "expansions". They now cost money up front, no longer free to current players.
'' I don’t mind less maps if it means higher quality content "" I wonder how you can still be so naive
A large part of their team is working on their new game project. We will literally have to pay for 3 maps every 2 years ( so half a living story) because they don't have enough people to work on the game.
The content will be tiny and this is the best way for them to keep making money as long as possible.
@@sebastienlebail6575 It would be 3 maps per year
Whether this new approach is good or bad I really feel like they need to hit it out of the park on initial release, I think people are a little anxious about such a big shake up
10 years of inconsistent releases will do that to ya, I know it has for me.
Doesn't help that IBS happened and that shattered any confidence I had in Anet when it comes to big changes like this. But they might actually be able to execute it properly now that they seem to have a different team. I don't think the game can survive another massive fuck up so they need to deliver this time.
I am excited for the new direction, however I am concerned about a couple of things:
1.) Elite specialisations. How are they going to develop and introduce these as they were always a major selling point for expansions?
2.) World disjointedness: I love how the stories flow into one another (with the exception of Primordus' story - we don't talk about Primordus' story...). Do you think that having standalone story expansions will fit into the world lore as a whole? Will they reference past events?
3.) Will ArenaNet FINALLY let us get into the Wizard's Tower in Kessex Hills via the new standalone story expansions!?
Thanks for the continuing content WP. Love you bro.
agree, mini-expansions like these worked well in terms of story for ESO, having played it personally, as ESO had always been about regional storylines, where every region has a story of their own, but this does not apply to gw2, it would suck if the story left with a cliff hanger and we need to wait 1 year for it
The best way forward for the elite specs is to introduce 3 or 2 each year by the looks of it, hopefully they dont remove the idea completely as it was the main selling point for their previous expansions if u ask me
The wizard tower is forgotten content
1) Elite specs create a lot of overhead when it comes to balancing and it adds to the complexities that new players need to familiarize themselves with. It is likely they are now toning down this aspect of the game in favor of things like just giving all specs access to different weapons, or adding new weapons without the traitlines and mechanical overhauls. I'd also love to see more of the old weapons getting changes, as some of them feel quite dated compared to the ones that were added with the elite specs. We'll see, maybe there's one more elite spec lineup later, I would still love to have that, but I can also understand if they don't do it.
2) Whether this works or not depends entirely on the overall execution, as it can make the world feel even more rich if you focus on smaller parts of it. I personally like smaller stories, I think the whole "world is ending" in favor of "character having a crisis that only impacts them or a smaller group" can be much more interesting. It's a planning nightmare that everything must flow together into one giant arc, as that's exactly what the Marvel movies are suffering from now, always having to acknowledge everything in retrospect, which heavily dilutes the creativity of the writers. Much better to look at examples like Arcane, it's just one small area of the world but we get the sense of scale through small acknowledgements and characters coming from other places.
3) Maybe a new guild hall?
@GeneroMachina I disagree about the weapons. over the years, they have quietly tuned up some of the weapon powers that needed it, one example is focus on guardian was improved significantly w the no5 attack. another example is the warrior rifle, making 3/5 attacks bullet skills. and there are more. the reason elite weapons feel so good w their class is because they are supposed to feel awesome w the elite, as the elite is designed around the new weapon. the older, basic weapon attacks are still viable n effective, it just takes some creative energy to look over the weapon and the trait lines and find what weap/trait combo to mix to shine. if they start retooling weapon skills, then the entire balancing protocols collapse and they have to start all over. again, they have been retooling weap skills when needed. adding in new weapons is a better solution than breaking things that aren't broken. as it stands now, there is a weapon/trait combo that'll work for any playstyle, it just has to be discovered. and that has been my mission over the last decade. finding how to make various weapons work w various builds, and I am constantly surprised at just how much thought and creativity anet has put into the combat system. it's not broken, so let's not break it.
@@Jhunta The balancing is always part of the process, but with it being a change and not an addition, it doesn't increase the workload over time, just frontloads it when the change happens. I think that's an acceptable cost for something that improves the consistency of how the game feels to play overall.
Adding new weapons is a much bigger balancing problem, as balancing comes from interactions, combinatorically. One more weapon multiplies the amount of work you have to do, to make the new skills function in a meaningful way, with all of the existing skills and systems. Changing a weapon also requires you to consider all existing skills, but it doesn't add new ones to the pile, so the workload is the same every time. Adding new weapons will increase this workload with every subsequent release. That's also why adding new elite specializations becomes increasingly more difficult, unfortunately.
Your point about disconnected storylines being a huge bonus rings true for me. My best friend and I used to be GW2 fanatics, fell behind due to real life stuff, and have felt the giant wall of interconnected story was a big barrier to us getting back in. It's hard to jump into the cantha xpack when we haven't played since the end of PoF.
I remember when Ice Brood Saga was supposed to replaced Expac, doesn't seem that long ago
There are so many interesting story lines they could go down with this new system. To me a natural story progression of the end of the Dragon Saga is the Asura reclamation of the deeps. The Asura get their time in the sun that they were robbed of when Icebrood was cut.
Asura go down (with the player) to reclaim the depths. Massive underground cities, caverns, tunnels. I could see them doing that scrapped Phlunt story line where the Asura even go evil now that Primordis is gone and their reclaimed lost technology goes to their heads.
There is a term in ttrpgs called crunch. And it is the thing that drives sales of product the most. Crunch is the stuff in these games that expand player options. Spells, abilities, new passive skills, new classes and subclasses.
This relates to GW2 because it is driven by much of the same principle. Icebrood Saga failed to live up to expectations because it didn't have this crunch and because it wasn't promised the reception was incredible poor. So anet had to shift gears to release an expansion with the crunchy content we love. Elite specs.
The new expansion model seems to be making the same mistake here. We need these sort of things. We don't have ever increasing levels that other MMOs rely on. And even they add crunch. I feel anet will be right back where we where with Icebrood Saga if my suspicion is correct. New profession skills, traits, specializations, elite specs, weapons are going to be needed to make this successful. New elite specs are not the only option here, but the crunch can't be ignored.
As someone who stopped playing GW2 back in about 2019 and picked up ESO in 2020, I really hope they go back to what makes the Guild Wars world unique and interesting AND exceptional and that is first and foremost: deep build crafting and a world with incredible lore and believable cultures and locales with legends and myths that come real if you just look around a cave or two or accidentally run into a shrine somewhere. GW2 felt like it lost the lore of what made GW1 very special as far as the Mists, the Gods, the different creepy almost Lovecraftian powers seeking to control or find a way into the mortal realm (Abaddon for example or Dhuum or the Lich or Shiro etc). These were VERY compelling villains who you felt like you came to know very well despite not getting to interact with them all too much until the end AND they were interesting and they also had INTENT which is something the Elder Dragons really didn't most of the time. The Elder Dragons felt like boring forces of nature and it felt like a "hurricane relief simulator" in some ways where you just try to clean up the mess that an elder dragon caused rather than understanding more about the world, their history and past experiences with said villain by heroes of the past, why they want to do what they are doing and so on. Mindless enemies CAN be ok but...frankly Balthazar being an enemy was one of the only interesting villains yet to me because it was such a weird turn of events and he had a personality and purpose. So, GW2 ought to bring back that level of story telling. That is what took me to ESO in the first place, that they really really care about the storytelling and each story or expansion has lots and lots of callbacks to lore, the worldbuilding, cultural behaviors or beliefs you learn about, and villains who, if not always the most creative or hyper memorable, are definitely interesting as far as their purpose and their methodologies.
But more than all of that...I just kinda want a Guild Wars game that respects the Guild Wars "Canon" where I feel like we're still in Tyria etc. and where I can sense the history and depth of the lore. And frankly, a big way that this could have been achieved was through legit Dungeons...Fractals are OK but they aren't a true replacement in my mind for fully narrative driven dungeons which tell a story about the past or how the past is connecting with the future. Right around Icebrood Saga I started to feel like it was Guild Wars in name only...returning to the far Shiverpeaks never felt more alien....Drakkar didn't feel fulfilling as the culmination of this years and years long mystery of "what in the world is this weird drake I keep running over as I run through this map in GW1?!". Lots of that stuff does matter to the worldbuilding and without that worldbuilding I'm not sure I will come back, but I really hope they work on keeping those connections strong! Of course they can create plenty of new things, but as they say "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" and I think that applies quite strongly to many of the things I think ArenaNet left behind from GW1 that really, really worked and frankly which sold them millions of copies of GW2 from GW1 fans expecting a game that build on the strengths of GW1 as far as story, build crafting, exploration and so on.
Well said.
I started playing GW1 back in 2005 and left in 2013. Just tried GW2 for the first time about 9 months ago and unfortunately have been pretty disappointed. This game is only Guild Wars in name, nothing else about it gives me that GW feel. Which has been pretty disappointing. Guild Wars 1 to this day is my favorite game of all time. I keep trying to force myself to continue to play GW2 with the hope that it will somehow resonate with me, but it doesn’t seem like that’s going to happen.
@@notthatguy4062 Yup, I totally understand. GW2 is a great game but it's just not the successor to GW1 at this point, they've veered SO FAR away from that in terms of almost all elements of design whether the story, characters or gameplay and environment that it's a different game entirely.
nobody is going to play gw1 style game , it was not successful , and nobody wants to play in an instance with bots, rose tinted glasses
R U saying ESO has better lore than GW2?
I feel like elite specs aren't gonna be yearly, but I think as long as they put a good big ticket with the expansions people will agree. If the next expansions don't have specs but have stuff like housing/a new race/new legendaries people won't mind
I would have HATED if they announced that Elite Spec would no longer come with each new expac. But if we get 1 expac/year, im fine with them only adding new specs with half of the Expac, as long as the expacs without them have more stuff to interact with.
Otherwise, Elite Spec are the main reason they sell Expac, so they need to keep an attractive Elite Spec system otherwise this wont help player retention as much as they want it to.
@@TheHunted385 I think if they take more time to work on build diversity within the current stuff we won't long for new specs as much lol
Hopefully they dump the elite specs and start adding new weapons, utilities and elites that any spec can use.
@@caffynated552 agree with you! Would prefer *for now* for them to switch elite specs with new weapons/new class since imo its way easier to balance
They could make water weapon land viable or even let mix elite spec weapons without the talents to make more builds awailable without adding more
I don’t have a lot of confidence that this will be anything more than less content than End of Dragons and a more frequent price point. This is the first time I’m considering not getting the expansion.
I'm pretty happy hearing this. I hope they can fulfill those goals. A fresh story is what this game needs and fresh fractals!!!
I think you have it the wrong way round to be honest. They can remove the phrase living world but me and you both know its going to be the same thing. From what we know Living World will basically still be the same thing, there just won't be as many in a season due to more frequent expansions. Expansions on the other hand as we know them in GW2 might be dead. As the content will basically be halfed by the sound of it. This could have a huge impact on the amount of features added to the expansion and elite specs. Only 2 world maps? This does some what depend on how much content is filled in those maps. However expanding the world by 2 maps doesn't sound like much of an "expansion". Expansions are built on hype. This could kill that.
I’m excited! I like living world as a concept but I’ve been a bit burnt out with the game. Glad to have something new and fresh happening!
I like the overall change to their business plan, I think this will allow them to both release new features more frequently and follow up on them with updates/fixes/etc. within shorter periods of times than before. For example, it took about 6-9 months for the jade bot mini to be added, together with the skins option, which should have been available from the start but likely wasn't ready to be shipped to platers, feature-wise. The main question I, personally, have is, what is their plan regarding new Elite Specs and/or Professions? Will they be adding new weapons/skills to core Professions/Specs, and releasing a new Profession per small expansion? Will they be shipping new elite Specs in chunks of three? There must be something going forward - new features, such as player housing most likely, new maps, and new story or Strikes can only get you so far, without new meaningful ways of playing characters. So, I wonder why they opted to leave this so vague - are they undecided or just keeping it for a future update? Hmmm!
I would love to see a video where you discuss what you think would be the best candidates for the new type of story telling they are going for, maybe even in tier list form? Exciting stuff all around!
4:02 I don't know what to make of that paragraph... it feels like a Nothing-Burger. It's rephrasing the old "Breaking the mold of MMOs" line from their founding but I don't even know if that is the right approach. Is it healthy to compare the comparatively small GW2 to the entire industry right now? I'd much rather ANet "seek out and understand the problems and frustrations that *Guild Wars 2* players face"...
Some of this I like, some of this I don't know what to think.
I have been around the whole time, so I've had all of the living world stuff for free.
So in some regards I'm sad to see that going away. At the same time, I've also come to view the Living World in its previous form as pretty much what they are explaining here, an expansion of the expansion. I'm not the majority player though probably, so everything between HOT and POF was essentially HOT in my mind. and everything up to EoD was POF, at least in my mind.
I'm unsure how to feel aside from cautious, in some regards this feels like version 2 of the Saga's idea, which itself was an iteration on the established "Living World" concept.
I'm very glad to see this. I've been feeling very 'been there, done that' and haven't logged in for a while. I love the game, but without something new to draw me in, I have little motivation. Because I haven't been logging in, I have a refreshed appreciation for your updates! When you were gone, I missed you keeping us apprised of the game.
I think you're missing something here. It's not that this new cadence is starting next year. It's happening now. So potentially we're getting a new expansion THIS year. Feb is the first EoD patch, June should be the 2nd EoD patch. Oct should be the new expansion under this new system. Because the quarterly updates cadence doesn't mean an expansion with 4 patches, it means an expansion with 3 patches. The fractal is probably it's own patch in that cycle. So it will go like this: Big expansion, Fractal patch, 3rd expansion map, 3rd expansion map add-on. Giving us a total of 4 patches including the expansion every year. With challenge modes for the 2 strike missions put in there somewhere too.
I think it is okay to cut down on map count, as the more maps we have, the more spread out the player base gets. They basically already did that in ice brood saga, and in fact I think that it is much better to have maps that are packed with content, even though it takes several steps until they are complete.
And yes, I was also pretty much reminded on how ESO plans to do it's updates from this year on (they announced changes in their format as well). And it is not very surprising for me, as I think that ESO is probably the closest competitor in the genre when it comes to a lot of the systems. They also struggled to assign resources to systems in need for updates under the pressure of content development.
Recently though I have learned from players who switched from ESO to GW2 that they liked the continuous story of GW2 better than the self contained updates of ESO. My personal preference would be somewhere in between: There is a overarching ongoing story and previous episodes will have consequences, but we now have the chance to shed a light on all the mysteries and side stories that didn't get as much attention as they deserved. With the cast introduced over the years there are also some characters that may get some more attention, and some are set up for this in end of dragons: I would like to meet the empress of cantha again (there was only this one instance), Yao, Ayumi, Tetra and what ever the name of the jade brotherhood leader was. Besides Rama, Ivan and Navan are also prominent characters that probably will stay relevant for some more time.
Going back to previous content and picking up stuff that is not completely resolved, Livia might be an option, also Jahvi and what is going on with the Vigil, but even more likely: Will we finally have a chance to see what is going on in the dominion of the winds, now that there are other Tengu who might want to contact the other and in the aftermath of the first contact we had during IBS?
8:17 They did hit the 2 years gap between expacs. Even a little bit less. There are slightly less than 2 years between HoT and PoF. As you said, golden time
I'm glad they've made a new trajectory, but I'm unsure of how well it will be executed as of now.
Certainly, I'll have to see it to believe it, but I'm quite jaded by this point.
I have to admit part of me is a bit worried - I always associated things like yearly small expansions with managed decline, like for some other older MMOs like Everquest (though as you said, ESO seems to be doing fine with that model). Living World has also always been a core part of GW2 and it's really sad to see it go. It was perhaps always a bit of a flawed idea (certainly how it was meant originally) but at this point I would've liked to see it continue, even if its meaning was pretty diluted.
Generally speaking, shorter development cycles don't leave much time for developing big additions to the game - things that really shake it up and bring attention to it - which means it's easy to fall into a "samey" cycle of releases that add new content but don't really feel exciting. In my opinion MMOs really need those big meaty expansion releases that freshen up the game and create buzz in order to keep the game chugging along.
Then again, knowing that content will come at a fixed pace and with more budget is also very exciting - I always felt that the dev team already made miracles when the majority of the income comes from a cosmetics store with no real P2W elements, so more frequent smaller expansions might just be the key business model to push GW2 even further with higher quality releases and better told stories. If the dev team can deliver that on a yearly(ish) development cycle, then it'll be 100% worth it.
Maybe they could even alternate mini and regular expansions, in order to still have that big release with huge new additions every new and then.
You got the point, a busy schedule like that doesn't leave much room for polishing new ideas, let alone for fixing old and important bugs which are still there. I don't know man, I'm worried too.
While i agree, the major problem withgw2 now is the amount of gemstore gated content, LWS2,3,4,5 that's a lot of money for new players to pay, Also they can't reuse the content from there because someone might not have the masteris. Maps are dead too because the population of new players to existing in the maps is shrinking.
What they are describing is somewhat similar to WoW current model, release expansion - few months later add content, - few months later add content - few months later add content / finish the expansion. And new one. Granted its about 2 year cycle, with approximately 4 base maps, followed by 1, 2 or 3 maps. The main difference with GW2 is that we don't have to pay subscription, while a blessing its also a curse because a large amount of potential capital for development etc is gone.
If they manage to keep up the 12 to 18 month cycle with expanding / living maps we will actually have more playable experience. Having big map is no good If its always dead / no content to do / no incentive to do said content. We can see this in how well the smaller HoT maps worked over the bigger PoF maps. Even Seasion 3 maps are in my opinion more servicable than Season 4.
And you would think they would have released at least some content for EoD, it has been a year now with nothing new.
Are we sure it isn't a new map with each quarterly release, so 6 maps if you include the two maps that come with the initial expansion? LWS 3 and 4 had 6 maps each, plus 4/5 maps for the xpacs, so 6 for a year-long story arc makes sense.
Also maybe the quarterly updates could imply three updates, as that would equal a new xpac annually at roughly the same time.
More content more frequently is always nice, even if we do need to pay for it.
I honestly would like them to pivot away from Elite Specs. It honestly feels like it devalues the core specs and I'd like to see at least some ability to mix and match between them. My alternative would be to have all weapons and skills unlocked at all times and introduce elite talents into every tree over time, having only one active at a time. These would activate the special mechanics now associated with each elite spec and modify some skills for balance. The idea is to avoid further fragmentation of class identity and expand on the core concepts.
I 100% agree with this. Initially the elite specs were a really cool way to add new "classes" to the game, putting a spin on their original class while staying thematic to them. However now it almost feels like bloat in a sense. ANet should look at core content that can be expanded upon, like expanding on core weapons for core classes (the ones that are missing), more skill choices like we do for utility skills, but for current weapons (for example, the ability to swap Sword 3 to a new Sword skill, or the ability to use Sword as a primary with no off hand, features like that).
I'm optimistic about this change, but I also was optimistic about IBS so we'll see. I do hope this gives Anet the opportunity to explore new ground for this franchise now that we've seen Tyria, Elona, and Cantha again. Hopefully we see some of those new places we've never been to which we know are on the map.
My only concern is with such a short development time we'll see a reuse of more assets which will then make these new places feel very samey.
Its kind of funny the effect the FFXIV End of a 10 year story and planning the next 10 Years ahead stream seems to have had on WoW and GW2 devs, they obviously play FF and ideally are learning to listen to their players more.
It sounds like a full GW2 expansion, cut in half, with the launch story and base features being in the Part 1 (base) and the more endgame/grind and hardcore content being in the Part 2. (patches) Sort of a typical sub MMO expansion cycle just with likely a smaller base game and smaller patches overall and maybe FFXIV MSQ style story bites per patch?
Sounds better than the long slogs between Living world and Expanions before.
Honestly what they laid out for us feels basically like yearly "Season Passes" from other games. We buy a mini-expansion which they extend in updates ... which closely mirrors to buying a new game and ordering future DLC before we even know whats in it.
Now while I don't like Season Passes in offline single player games, this honestly sounds great in the form of an MMO (which is always about future unknown content). I'm on board with this 100% if its priced well and if they live up to the promises and timelines presented.
The End of Dragons updates to come seem like a fantastic way to put Aurene to sleep and clean up the current story in a way so that future expansions no longer have a "Commander" chosen by the great dragon god as a champion. And therefore....there's room for a new playable race like Tengu somewhere down the line since they don't need to be beholden to previous stories. It would even be a good replacement for elite specs for whatever expansion they come in with. And other future expansions could bring in a new weapon in place of elite specs.
So excited about the new plans!
Also i have a theory: they thought jade bot as one of those mechanics that get expanded with the addition of content. EoD new content is coming out and it will include more significant space for the jade bot. And that's why we currently have a mini costing 1600 gems..
I believe you can also get a jade bot mini in Cantha through the living story map currency.
My best *guess* for the next part of story: We’ll join Detective Rama and his hat to uncover the horror in the Unending Ocean while also fighting the Purists who have their own interests for Canthan society.
It’s an open thread from the EoD main story.
One of the Priory Researchers in NKC near Soo-Won’s Jade monument mentioned that horror wasn’t Soo-Won. The exodus of refugees happened AFTER Soo-won left.
If it’s something that can make even the Krait and Largos run, it’s gotta be formidable. I wonder if it’s an old god (?) like Dhuum was.
As for the Purists, doing the Kaineng Overlook Strike won’t be enough to defeat them at their roots.
I like the idea of removing living world, like they say it took a lot of the focus of adding content to the game. I read that blog post and in the back of my head I kept thinking with this new approach maybe we could finally see the next world for SAB? It’s long overdue maybe now they can deliver
they are lying bro ( in fact they already told people that they are going to develop less living world maps per year), they are just going to charge for the living world maps and keep the delevopment cicle as it is, giving u scraps of content every year, instead of taking years and years to complete a single expansion... its just pure greed at the end of the day, if they are not carefull with this they are going to kill the game...
So appears this first story on Feb 28th will take us to The Deep and Kanaxi. I wonder if demons will be the theme for next expansion and maybe that's the force in the ruined Raisu Palace?! Pretty cool if it is!
Also here's to hoping that next expansion brings a new playable race -- maybe something like a demon or mistbourne? Or maybe characters like Razah from GW1.
I still want to play as a Tengu.
I remember WoW saying they wanted to do annual expansions years and years ago. They never got close and also have huge droughts at the end of xpacks as well - and thats Blizzard.
I like this direction, I'm cautiously optimistic that it'll lead to better outcomes for the game, but I don't think they'll ever hit that cadence.
This shall be the Friends Detective Agency's first big case!
HoT 2015, PoF 2017. They did in fact hit the 2 year expansion cycle once. Looking forward to an ESO type model going forward. An expansion a year would be great. Also, how many more maps are even possible? How many places on this world are still unexplored?
I like what they are planning. It may take em a while to iron out to consistency, but if they stick to it, I feel they can deliver. I really wondered where they were going to go after the whole dragon thing wrapped up. It has me immensely curious. I enjoyed the long narrative, while HoT wasn't great, still was good, the zones just kinda hurt.... a lot. Yet, followed up with LS3 and PoF which i felt were great content. I even enjoyed LS4 to an extent. Really curious where in the end they will go.....
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again - I’ll die on the hill that transforming existing maps like they did with Kessex for the Tower of Nightmares was the best thing ever did. Reuse the maps and have the story change them. If not then I’d prefer smaller quantities of maps since I play casually and mostly just for story. Makes my life catching up easier and less tedious.
I actually enjoyed a lot how Living World worked. Getting the content for free, if you were actively playing, was a huge bonus of Living World so far. It doesn't seem that what they announced is vastly different from how LW worked and seems more like a change in monetization if anything. EoD didn't click with me and the last storyline that I really enjoyed was the Icebrood saga.
I'm going to keep a reserved perspective on this. The last time they promised "expansion level features" was the Icebrood Saga. For that we got half a living world season, but no features that were worth an expansion. No elite specs, no major system changes. Like the revenant or mounts.
From dev comments a living world episode is 9 months to develop for a team and an expansion has typically taken 9 months to develop for the full studio. The exception here is POF, which took roughly 21 months with a smaller team. So with the full development team (or realistically 60-80% of their team), they might be able to do it.
I'm willing to put this up to Anet talking big plans, let's see how well they deliver with recent track record.
24:42 "Unlike a Living World release... there's no pressure to unlock it and no gem cost for missed story chapters." In other words, another year without logging in to GW2 for me!
Remember how Joko arc was too short with 3 maps (episodes)? I feel like they are trying to go even faster with this new plan and i'm scared but hope they'll make it work :)
Regarding the yearly cycle, and the "3 months wait" before/after xpac, they could simply stick to three quarterly updates instead of four. We would have only 4 patches per year with the first one being an "expansion launch." That is actually how ESO achieves its yearly "expansion" (called chapter actually) cycle.
A better way to make the expansions feel more significant would've been to front-load all three maps during expansion launch frankly, and let the three quarterly updates focus only on progressing the narrative by revisiting said maps (could be even done by unlocking new events in these maps). If we're getting one expansion with 3 big maps per year, no one will really feel the lack of map additions over the year, especially if we have a reason to revisit said maps as new events get added to them throughout the quarterly updates for the xpac.
As for character progression, they just have to figure it out. It doesn't have to be through elite specs, but they can't just completely remove profession altering changes with an xpac, as they breath life into the game and are the main reason expansions feel special. If they don't provide some meaningful gameplay altering profession progression system, it will just feel like a glorified LW episode to me. And frankly, the story isn't this game's strong suit. I love the expansions for the new gameplay, not the cheesy eyeroll inducing plotlines. Even EoD wasn't really great storytelling wise for me. It was just good enough to act as narrative justification for why I'm exploring the new maps. It wasn't a story thrilling enough to justify playing the game for the sake of the story.
I think with their expacs, they can do something that a lot of software companies do, Tik tok releases.
Basically,each expac should kick off a big story line that is like current expac stories, short movies blockbuster steps (saga?)
Tik expac which will introduce all the new systems, like mastery system, mount system.
Tok expac will focus on refining and improving on existing systems, new masteries, new elites, new mounts.
In between are content updates, festivities, short overlapping stories like a tv show that ties up or builds towards the next expac, events, new maps, and hell, why not PvP and WvW events/tournaments, I don’t play a lot of them, but I think GW2 has a great combat system that this should be interesting to watch competitively.
I wish they made map changes like pre-searing to post-searing like in Guild Wars 1 for new players in the future in places like Kesex Hills. Then a repaired map after a player clears all the dragon saga quests. In a sense, those would keep the world alive in GW fashion
This could be good or bad.
Hoping this goes very well....
But "smaller expansions" sounds dangerously close to just a 1-2 yearly living world 2.0 but sold as an expansion. It's not as much content as an expansion, and not as many, if any, game-changing add-on's like gliding, mounts, co-op mounts and fishing etc. Also does this mean they'll be skipping or half-assing new elite spec? I'm still holding out hope for a GOOD support warrior elite spec like a GW1 Paragon. I also REAALLY wanted to see Player-created stuff that others can explore like player housing as you said, or race track builders outside of the long grind for track pieces for a guild hall. Or even smaller features like a guild browser in the guild menu where I can advertise my guild in a spot that isn't hidden at the bottom of the already under-used LFG system. Also would like to see some changes to the antiquated UI in many aspects of the game.
If they pull this off, they could see the kind of sustained playerbase that Path of Exile has seen instead of an explosive jump in numbers being tapered off as time goes on and people lose interest. But they will also need to put more than $10 + 10 minutes into their advertising...
If they are doing no more specializations, has the time finally come to introduce playable Tengu?
For the comments on the 3 map point, I do agree that the number of them can indicate a level of "grand-ness" for the expansion. However, they do have the ability to expand maps over the course of quarterly updates. Keeping players invested in those three maps for that expansion, and to have the story revisit areas as to not let them go to waste... it seems like a good idea.
I think what you said that, that "psychology" it`ll feel different, I agree entirely, especially for players that`ll come later on and need to catch up - It makes it much more accessible and sense to buy an "Expansion" and therefore, all the patches that come after it in a 1 single bundle, slightly pricer although, than just buying every single chapter alone, or Expansion + chapters bundle.
It`ll be even easier for us, core players, to advertise and invite friends, etc., to join all the fun.
They do mention "new gameplay and combat features" in each expansion. What do you think those could be? Do you think those could be elite specs every two or three expansions?
As for the upcoming map, since it's likely in the jade sea, it would be fun if the later added playable space is "underneath" the map in layers with multiple access points, rather than next to it behind a gate.
As someone who has played a lot of ESO these past years I don't know if I like this similar approach. Zenimax is moving away from this content rollout this year because they finally realized that people weren't overly happy with how things are going. Not every expansion and subsequent patches hit the mark. Especially the yearly stories felt rushed at times because they had to be concluded in a year and didn't leave much space for elaborate storytelling.
Sure, getting more frequent updates is great but I fear that the features these smaller expansions will have will be even more lackluster than in EoD. I want new elite specs. Maybe not every year but at least every other year. Moving away from that would take away a lot of reason to buy an expansion. I just don't know if they can produce an appealing product, with features that have real depth, in a shorter amount of time. The coming year could be a bit short on content while they work on the new expansion. Hopefully I will be pleasantly surprised of the things that are to come but at the moment I am cautious.
Nonethless I am excited to see what the future holds for GW2. The transition period is probably going to be a bit rough but I hope when things finally fall into place we will have a good time with their new approach.
@Roasted Bloop I already touched on the pros and cons in my post but to name more things.
Pros: You get content on a more consistent basis. ESO has 4 major content releases per year.
You know what to expect in a year. Of course you don't know exactly what every patch entails but by the quarterly rollout you know more or less what's coming. Like Q1 always starts the new expansion, Q2 has the fractal, Q3 has more maps and story, Q4 has the Strike challenge modes (along those lines).
Cons: Content seems more rushed. If you only give yourself about a year, you need to deliver something in that timeframe. Whether the product is truly ready or not.
You can't do big things anymore that take a lot of time to develop. Features don't seem as thought out anymore. Expansion features feel lackluster in comparison to real expansions. One of the pros can also be a con. Knowing what to expect can become stale fast. Nothing really new and exciting, everything feels formulaic and predictable.
It's not all bad, if ANet can really deliver expansionstyle content on a yearly basis with the quality we deserve and not just a renamed living world with trimmed down features it can be a good thing. We'll have to wait and see.
The teaser image for the next update implies that there's leylines involved, with some of the dark green/black energy of the void. I'd guess, there was some backwash of void energy into the ley-energy network, and that we might have to fight some more void enemies for a while longer, while we work to cleanse the ley-energy network of any latent corruption.
I’m just really hoping for more than just a map with some story
Lack of Elite Spec inclusion in the list of stuff caught my eye too. I get that balancing is a tough act with so many spinning parts, but having something fresh to keep combat from getting stale is vital. It really sounds like they're trying the Icebrood Saga trick again but tying it to the keyword "expansion" rather than "Living World" - or *Saga* - so that (as you said) the MMO press will actually cover it. Not a bad idea for publicity, but it is sour to me as a player that it appears they're trying to cut guaranteed elite spec development out of the loop again - stuff like the Ancient Magics mastery line is nice but not enough. Really wish the industry had a differentiation between "expansion" of the ruleset [new mechanics/character options] vs "extension" of the game story/map [more content with existing systems].
I also find it sad that MMO writers seemingly can't be bothered with building and braiding what came before and insist on making stuff whole cloth. It is shown in the abandonment of open-world dungeons, which tied into the map location and history, for fractals that they could set anywhere and anywhen (which also had the added bonus of NOT having the expectation of a story AND 3 explorable paths AND a unique gear set). It is shown when the community has to point out when story beats might tie into a personal story in order to get even a stray chat option or voice line to reflect it. But, they did answer the player requests for Elona and Cantha, so there's that.
I have felt lately that Anet really needed to adopt a release model closer to the other big MMOs out there. One common complaint/barrier to entry I see from newer players is "wait, I bought x,y,z expansion(s), why am I still locked out of all these mounts, stories, masteries, etc." I'm really hopeful this change will make the transition a lot more comfortable for newer players.
On a more selfish note, all of my favorite living world maps have come from season 2 and IBS, which had very few map releases, so I'm quite happy with this news. Also if we can get a release model like ESO has without all the crappy greed zenimax has, I will be very happy lol
Instead of always new E-Specs I would love to see them return and maybe rework some of the existing ones. Traitlines/Skills, to really define their Role.
Yes it was a little bumpy, but I loved that they tackled the Warrior Banners.
More of that. polish what you already have to be up to standart instead of just putting more and more on top.
Personally I'd like to see them polish the classes and put their effort into new Content instead of new EliteSpecs.
But thats just a personal take and I definitly see why people would like to see more Specs, it's fun to brew and engange in a new side of your favorite profession.
Just for me personally... I don't need more "classes", so the Roadmap they provided sound really good to me, since it seems they put a lot of focus on content, witch is great!
let's hope they can keep up what they are planning! :3
I hope this means they'll do better with support roles in PvE raids, maybe make dungeons worth diving into too with something other than pure damage... I just like to have some more variety in what I do and came from other MMOs enjoying tanking and healing. These things exist here but ... one patch morphs the landscape completely and as an example no one cares that Rev has healing or tanking abilities. So there's entire skill sets that hardly get used or even get you kicked for using xD
Nice to see they are trying new things. I suspect there will be an expansion and then three Quarterly updates giving us four part sets of content rather than Expac and four Quarterly updates. I also don’t have a problem with them not laying out exactly what will be in each set; don’t put stuff in just to tick a box, put it in because you have a good idea or an exciting experience you want to tie in. We don’t need more mediocre elites or maps, we need good content released with intent
If the masteries are like ice brood (aka get mastery to open chest) and there's no elite spects, they won't be getting my money. I need a bit more than maps and story.
8:04 'btw, did they ever actually hit that two year slot? I'm not sure they even did.' oh they did. _Heart of Thorns_ was released in October 2015 and almost 2yrs later they released _Path of Fire_ in September 2017. then it took them more than 4yrs for _End of Dragons_
Well no new masteries Is a win for me. Adding even 1 new mastery every 2 expacs would make balancing the game even harder than it is right now. Adding new weapons or skills to existing ones have much more sense.
i mean, sooner or later player housing has to come right? what else are they gonna do as a new big feature, maybe in conjunction with masteries
they have done a lot of tech upgrades to the game since pof so i wonder if the two expansion maps will be really big like how they wanted to do it in pof with how Crystal Highlands + Crystal Oasis were going to be one map, and Elon Riverland + The Desolation were going to be one map. It be really exciting if they were able to pull of the giant open world feeling now with the open boarders and stuff as well having a two ginormous maps everyone hangs out in.
i meen there some points i like and some points i dont know with this thought to me a few points/questions ill make
i think the bit where it says will add 2 maps and then a map after i think to me it in plays a new map every "quarterly update" (including if a map is expanded or added on (dry top style) or if its a new map what do u think?
and
b. with this new way of them doing maps and stuff do u think will see expanded maps for older maps like the ones that have doors or "end of areas" we can see but now use yet?
i think 3 maps is way to low honestly because if they do story i feel like 50% of it will use any base maps or any map to do stuff i didn't like that much over then when it made it important to go to x place but ill hold my oppion on this untill this rolls out but i will say it would be good to get a stable update content rhythm going
Are the old living world episodes going to be available to play after those changes? I haver't played some of them.
On paper sounds good and all but like you said I wonder if they can deliver. The first mini expac im sure will because they prob worked on it the whole last year, but honestly having no mentions of proffesions wich imo is the most important aspect of an expac I just dont see them doing another set of elite specs every year or even every 2 years so maybe they didnt mention it because they have no plans on making any new ones, honestly i dont think we need more since the game is difficult as it is to balance but for alot of people when they buy an expac the main selling point is the elite specs, i feel like with a mini expac we will get exactly the bare minimum 2 maps(could be just be an expanding map disguised as 2), relativly low meaninfull story since I honestly dont see how a story worth our character "the commanders" time. It will just feel silly after doing so many great feats like defeating the elder dragons the primordial life forces of tyria ,the void , defeating a god , to go and deal with detective cases feels like our characters retirement plan tbh. Just sounds less exciting, if they can create an interesting story that deals with some crazy storylines then il be impressed.
Strikes and 1 fractals isnt rly that exciting, fractals just go into the random daily pool so people wont rly be that excited about it, its just an adition to the daily t4 routine and strikes for the general casual players will be like a 1 time thing they do. So yeah im not sure about this way going forward
seeing the springer in the scene, just reminded me of how the f*ck they did it with that aged old engine of theirs. I mean, every mounts, to be exact, the physics you felts, especially the griffon for me
I haven't played since midway through Icebrood so maybe I am just more jaded as I haven't played in ages, but Anet have said this again and again. 'Hey we are changing things up now', 'Going forward we will do it like this'. I really hope this one sticks but I am fatigued from the game just never having a consistent direction.
They could make this interesting too by tying in their usual stuff like Character slots / inventory slots and other extras tied to an individual expansion. Or like "heres a standalone adventure set here - with this outfit etc and your yearly vip pass"
Im pretty positive about this. As long as we still get 9 Elite specc all at once every 2 years, im beyond happy. It means less content drought, less anxiety and more revenu for Anet which is good for them and for us.
* I specify all at once cause someone said they'd like if they release like 3-4 specs every expacs, and I find that to me beyond silly and a moronic move from Anet, so I make it as clear as possible that I dont like that idea at all lol.
It doesn't make any sense to compare their ACTUAL content delivery with all of its issues, to this new IDEAL scheme. You have to compare apples to apples - what they had wanted to do with this vs. what they had wanted to do with IBS vs. what they had intended with HoT, LWS3, PoF, and LWS4's content delivery model.
Living world I think was like Kessex Hills map changing for the story, but people that didn't experience it before it changes miss out on what it was like and it may just change for the worse like Kessex did.
I think it's unfair to call it 'only 3 expansions in 10 years'. I have been playing thorugh the variuos living worlds (especially 4) and I'd definitely call each of those living world seasons an expansion to their own....so 4 seasons, icebrood saga, plus HOT, POF, EOD? that's quite a bit.
Any plan is better than NO plan and hearing they have one, that is based on other people's successes, yet doesn't put us into any kind of grinding wheel, that sound good for me content wise.
I think the well of Elites is running a bit dry, but they could either take 1 class each quarter and give it 1, or every other quarter, then you could deliver the promise of making everyone happy in due time w/out over extending. OR they could release a new Class entirely, w/3 Elites, once a year, so 4 new playable modes per expac instead of 9.
The hopeful in me thinks this might all be hinting at an underwater combat update. There are so many things that feel like should've been addressed long ago - such as make underwater combat more engaging and less awful - bring back the beautiful underwater map designs like what we see in core tyria, that are sorely missing from the more recent zones - possibly some underwater masteries or making spear/trident/harpoon gun standard weapon types. Plenty of designspace to make this an expansion level feature in my opinon
Hi WP, Sounds good to me, GW1 was similar to this and it's a tried a tested way to go. They can change direction every major update 18 moths to 2 years and keep people interested.
I wonder if the main reason they changed the expansion/living cycle is because its a huge hassle to deal with the living world monetization on steam. Regardless as someone who isn't actively playing gw2, this change is pretty interesting for me.
Regarding elite specs: personally I feel its extremely exhausting for the devs to make 9 every xpack. It's equivalent to 9 new classes every expansion - which no other MMO does. At the same time new classes have always been one of the key selling points for any MMO, so I don't know. Maybe only a few elite specs per xpack? Or they might finally go back to making entirely new classes like practically every other MMO in existence does.
If its like the start of IBS was and not the tail end of how IBS was I'm fine with this.
i think that from their track record they may not be able to keep this momentum after the first year. This may get a little crunchy behind the scenes and burn out the teams. While good in theory, its going to be interesting to see in practice. who knows this may be how we finally get the tengu as a playable race lol
Devil's advocate here: especs as a system is already near saturation point so not having new especs probably wouldn't be such a bad thing. Having 36+ different playstyles is verging on giving new players too much choice, and learning to counter 36+ different playstyles is insane for new players. I think it would be better to focus on refining, reworking and overhauling existing parts of the combat system (including especs) since that's what people actually interact with every single time they play.
ESO player here (well obviously I play gw2 too), ESO's yearly plan has worked out well, let's just say worse and worse through the years we were getting smaller and smaller patches (which meant smaller maps over time) with less and denser content as well as the devs felt pressured. Recently they've announced the new expac, in which they've addressed that they will be changing the way the make expacs with less frequent patches which so far has been 4 major patch; 2 story/map and 2 dungeon patch where the 2nd story patch was kinda disconnected from the 1st one and then at the end of the 2nd you'd have an extra questline that connected the two. Now this crunch didn't let them focus on quality of life patches and adding new classes and things like that so what they've said as far as I understand is that they'll do one dungeon patch then one major story patch then focus one gamplay and quality of life classes(already existing ones) etc, plus we got a new class.
Now I think if gw2 did this right it could work for them better however one they aren't as ambitious with it 2 these would feel like bigger living world episodes essentially (wouldn't they?) which they already have experience with. My only fear is that they would promise to deliver something that for it to be delivered required those things to be more sparse. I honestly would rather have less maps that are as big as they can be in the game world and are fully utilised, which would include putting more emphasis on side stories (with better ui integration) as well as more secrets maybe jumping puzzles. luckily i think this technology of being able to release a map in bits is a luxury they have and can utilise, but i'd still rather have them make each map as rich and big as possible instead of having many maps where you can barely do anything.
I think these regular expansions means we'll probably get different things with each expac, so one might offer a new mount or two, another will have elite specialisations etc.
You do make a good point, if it’s cheaper when it’s already 30 dollars, and you get the patch ‘living world’ stuff without even having to log in, that would be a decent deal even if this is all lesser content. No sub, just ignore in game store, and you’ll get a pretty cheap price to play a little bit of content to jump in and out.
Maybe it's time for gw3. There are no more dragons, nothing much left to unite the races except the good memories. I don't think the charr war machine is just going to stop and join some sort of tyrian EU, nor would the assura just decide to share their knowledge with everyone. A guild wars 3 for me would be a war setting. Maybe it doesn't need to be an mmo, just an rpg with separate campaigns that explore each race's ambitions. Kinda like the Command and Conquer series but an rpg. For everyone that wants to play happy disneyland friendship fantasy, they can still play gw2, but this is the only realistic continuation of the story to me.
I interpreted it as 2 maps to open and an extra map each quarter - 5 maps a year
Haven't played since Icebrood Saga but these changes sound interesting. Sounds like it's really making better use of the staff they have available for better collaboration.
i wonder if theyll ever tackle the human gods again
like they come back and say "oh shit you guys actually won? without us? uhhh as expected!"
knowing what we know now about the void lends some more depth to their decision to depart, though hollow it still is. im curious to see what kind of role theyd try to fill in the future
I think one way for them to sustainably add elite specialisation is if, for every new specialisation, they nerf all existing specialisations of a particular aspect, like regen, and give it to the new specialisation. Otherwise, this will just make the whole combat system impossible to balance, furthering the whole power creep, and new players will have a even higher ceiling to reach, a barrier to entry, which kills a game with no sub fees.
Something I haven't heard anyone mention, but with this model shift, a lot more of their revenu is going to come from expansion and less from the gemstore, which could lead to more skins being earnable rather than bought which could be great
I remember being overwhelmed by the speed of change, and things I had to do in GW1. GW2 has and continues to be a desert compared to it. I wish them the best in fixing it; its been devestating to see how badly GW2 has done with its content.
Cautiously Optimistic. Being a fan of Guild Wars and playing it since i was a young lad you come to recognize anet's patterns. I will always hope for a better, improved, regularly updated experience. I am also willing to do my part to make the best Guild Wars experience happen. I don't like the gem store and disapprove of the implementation, but i also understand its necessity. If i can give anet a sub, like ff14, i would if it meant a better experience. The sub would be yearly, insted of monthly in this instance. Then that's fine sounds great. They need to follow through with it though. I had an experance with a fractal group today going on about how its shitty of anet to make a "totally not a battle pass, battle pass", and how raids are dead. When i argue that raids and strikes are the same thing. Somehow raids are better because they are story driven and have multiple bosses. Strikes are just raid encounters without having to go through multiple bosses to get to the end. IBS strikes were not all that great for sure, they were short and lack luster. But the EOD and recently Old Lions Guard Strikes are well made and the CMs are fantastic. IF we can get more of that in the coming years im all for it and anet can have my yearly sub.
This is what I read : "Now you'll have to pay for ``Living World´´". Because expansions are *not* free. You can't buy them with in game gold. As long as they don't mess up everything as Zenimax does (gear grind + P2W + dull open world) I'm okay. But if they design new OP Elite Specializations while nerfing previous ones (pure P2W). The sh*t Zenimax already does with gear. They'll just loose, not just me, forever. I won't live again the same disappointment and frustrations I had in ESO. I just hope NCSoft isn't too greedy and will not kill the game by greed.
I dont think they should add new specialisations for every class now, it clearly takes up a lot of resources doing all 9 and then trying to fine tune them. It might be easier for them to just introduce a new class in the expansion and then two elite specialisations for that class throughout the quarterly updates/story progression or something.
Woodenpotatoes!!!!!!!!! I HAVE A CAAAAANDLE!!!!!
Oi! Oi! Not online.
This could be a good thing, Living World seasons are not exactly easy to market to the wider gaming community. An expansion is Always a bigger opportunity to really spread the name and try to keep new players rolling in.
Ive on and off played GW2 for years at this point, The Biggest and continual "let down" in my opinion is the lack of marketing.
I had to Tell my friends the game released on steam, After i just *happened* to stumble upon it. There was no like advertisements. Bear in mind i live in Aus which would make a difference.
But even still, the marketing and advertisements for GW2 IMO have been the biggest factor in the relatively small growth compared to the other big MMO's on the market these days.
Everyone knows when theres a new WoW/ESO/FFXIV xpac. Hardly anyone knows when GW2 is doing Anything.
I think they would benefit massively from actually marketing the game properly. They wont add things like Australian servers because theres not enough players but they also wont do anything to give themselves a proper player spike. Its kind of strange tbh.
As a new player should I buy the living world expansion (Complete edition for $99.99) or would I be fine with just the expansions ($49.99 for them all)
im more inclined its going to be 1st quarter new expac and then next 2 or 3 quarters with updates to story assuming quarter2,3 and 4 arenanet willl be chipping away for next year expac
So a 4 part expansions spread somewhere between a 1 and 2 year release window, with three maps each... my fear is the expansions will feel very small in content, very rushed in pacing, and very poor in quality, especially if every expansion starts and concludes its arc within its own expansion.
This reminds me of the Jowko Arch in season 4, which was so short and rushed, it made Jowko feel like a weak villian in a pointless story thread that contributed nothing to the overall story development. That was, until Aurene died, and used his powers to resurrect, thus giving meaning to his death... but that only worked because the Jowko arc was not self contained.
I don't think any of the future story will have any meaning, if there are no links and no underlying plot leading everything in some direction.
So nostalgic hearing your voice after something like 3 yrs. Some things never change!