Force Free Dog Training | Uncle Stonnie's Opinion
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- čas přidán 5. 09. 2024
- Today Uncle Stonnie takes the dog for a hike and discusses the idea of force free dog training. If you have a different opinion concerning the use of force in dog training please post your thoughts below!
I hope you guys enjoy!
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What type of long line is that orange one you use here? It looks very high quality.
One of your more humorous videos. Love it. I always enjoy your common sense. A rare quality these days.
Seriously, what people refuse to consider is that sometimes death is better than a cage.
You would have to force me to hang out with the force free people. Love it!
😂Stonnie spot on.
😆🦦
The arguing and rants that have been going on between other trainers and their followers have gotten ridiculous. Stonnie, I'm glad you addressed this. You did an excellent job explaining things and also used great examples. I am a big fan of your training style, and it's clear that any dog would want to be around you!
The force free side WILL 100% make the entire country use their techniques. It's already happening in Europe. Ignore them and they'll get legislation passed to remove all aversive training and leave many dogs untrainable.
What 'force free' people don't understand is that once a dog realises they don't have to think for themselves anymore all their worries disappear. The anxiety goes away, they become more confident and they come to to bond with the handler much more than they would otherwise. They come to realise that they can just be a dog and the handler will take care of the stressful stuff, all they have to do is listen and in exchange they get a lot more freedom.
What really cracks me up is that those "force free" advocates truly think it's possible to live without pressure, obligation and so on. That it's possible to avoid all kind of aversives and stress when in life every living creature is continuously exposed to stress and forced to do things once they get off the womb. But that's it, let's them keep living in fantasy land, It's useless to try and talk some sense into their heads.
I want my bitch to have discretion.
I trust her instincts and nose for a reason.
Simple, practical, and sensible. Well said, Stonnie
When you own a predator, you’ve got to be willing to use some level of force. I own dogs and sheep, and I had to use force to remove my dog from the pasture when she thought chasing sheep was a good idea. It’s either that or a pile of dead sheep. It’s a fantasy to think dogs will behave without consequences for misbehavior. Where people get it twisted is thinking control comes from aggression and rigid dominance. Control is a dynamic give-and-take process, not a fight
Allways the voice of reason. But also a real master of his trade, you cannot argue with Stonnie's logic..
Keep us posted on how this turns out. I have a husky that I can run with a 4 wheeler 10 miles, have him follow me on a tractor but the second I turn around to turn some wrenches he's bored and off he goes to entertain himself with something a half mile away
Husky type dogs are great, lots of fun, but they ARE bred to RUN. It's who they are. They're a little ADHD in that regard, and are often quite intelligent dogs, as well as strong willed. Ya gotta reign 'em in if you hope to hold their attention long enough to do any training. Love seeing you work with such a dog, Stonnie.
I had a cross eyed husky as a kid. Sweetest dog. Kids for 3 hollers around thought of him as half theirs.
Ready to Run......😊😊😊😊
Well Stonnie l have the same dog and at 6 month I forced him to walk to group training with 10 other dogs . The trainers told me that Huskies were high energy, noisy , difficult and would disrupt the class.'He's lucky he's handsome' they said. I said he's a lover not a fighter'. Well I forced him to learn to sit stay come and heel like the 10 other dogs . After 10 weeks he got a diploma and they said they could not believe how well he behaved. I didn't tell them that every morning I forced him to run alongside me on my bicycle up and down hills for 30 minutes to the class !
Cobra' Siberian Husky 80lbs North Dakoda
What an absolutely perfect way to put this into a simple perspective.
I worked in shelters and did a good few courses on dog training (not an expert at all but I've seen and heard multiple different training styles in real life) and I LOVE your training method. As you said, the proof is in the pudding. Happy, relaxed dogs and a happy, relaxed Uncle Stonnie. What more could you want?
Interesting. I haven't heard force free as much, but I agree with your thinking. I would lean towards error free learning, where I just praise the good and don't do much correcting. But even that is not 100%. I have 15 years of mostly informal experience, and what I find is safety takes priority over any preference on methodology. If I need to use some force to keep my dog from running across the road toward the trailhead, because cars, so be it. Force free is a well intended overcorrection from Dominance/Alpha style dog "training" that was more abusive control. We need to have patience and respect for dogs as living creatures, but that doesn't mean all discipline or "force" is bad.
Force-minimized seems like the practical/actual approach.
The term I often hear used is “least aversive” which starts with positive reinforcement. I think “force free” was an idea of how a lot of training could be accomplished without some of the corrective, and sometimes quite harsh, methods of the past. At some point, like so many things these days, people became polarized, and stopped using common sense, and just dug in their heels. Like so many things, the answer lies somewhere in the middle depending upon the dog and the circumstance.
I like this analogy- well done Stoney you are spot on ❤
😂You had me howling! You are so right! Personally I think most dogs would love to go live with Uncle Stonnie!
The force free community have become extremists. I'm all for using treats and luring a dog as well as using rewards, however there are things to dogs which are much more satisfying than any treat or praise. Corrections are just a part of training a dog and raising kids! I would love to see a force free trainer take on aggressive dogs and show success. Instead they usually recommend euthanasia as the dog can't be helped.
Stonnie, you have a great balanced approach to dog training and love watching your videos.
I love Stonnie Dennis's knowledge and wisdom. I love how he treats dogs and the joy he gives to them and receives from them. He inspired me to deep dive into behavioral science. This video challenged me. I thought he was being very shallow and felt disappointed because I respect him a lot. So I stepped back and found what triggered me, it is because I am a woman and it wasn't that long ago that women were owned and at the mercy of who owned them. So I like the fantasy of my present autonomy being force free, but it is not. There are rules, I have been taught and guided in specific directions. My takeaway from this is that dogs are at our mercy so make their lives as fun and enriching as possible within the boundaries set by the human society they are in.
The one thing I never am, is shallow. Sometimes you just have to dig a little bit to understand what I’m trying to do…
Excuse me?
How long ago did your people own you? I don't know which culture you are, that's why I'm asking.
The World must be ending! I thought Stonnie would never take on a Husky.
Oh that explains the taking off and running straight forward lol… I am blind so didn't know what kind of dog it was but had a feeling it could've been a husky😊
Ha! I need a new tractor!
Huskies are good for your brain. You need to be 10 steps ahead , they are amazing dogs
When Stonnie dropped the long line, I was waiting for the husky to notice he was free and take off.
I want to board at uncle stonnie's. No, not my dog, ME. I want to be out there like that everyday! God bless.
Beautiful words as usual Stonnie! I used your techniques to train my Labs and we hike every day. Everyone always asks how I got my dogs to behave so well and I refer them to your videos!
Dogs with off leash reliability live better lives. Period.!!!
My “force free” friend only walks her dog to go potty, otherwise dog refuses to leave the house, and my friend doesn’t wanna force her to…
What do you think a good argument would be when the dog is, allegedly, too afraid to have fun adventures outside?
I’m so happy to hear you say what you have stated in this video. You’re right on.
This is such a well articulated point! Ive always felt that force free training isn't exactly truthful. If you have a fenced in yard or keep the dog inside your home, arent you forcing it to live with you? To some extent, force affects all of us - for example, if a storm comes along, I'll be forced to take shelter.
The best option is a flexible one that provides both freedom and safety. Great work, Uncle Stonnie! You nailed it. I'm envious of your lifestyle, though I recognize it's also a tremendous amount of work. It must be so rewarding for you! Be well
You rock! I adventure hike with my GSP every day. I am your exception though. I used to not hike so much. I got a high energy dog, but I did changed my lifestyle to go hiking with the dog. It's been super rewarding.
Simply true … Force free is a non sense argument… you cannot train humans, soldiers, police officers or even professionals with force free stupidity whenever there is training there have to be restrictions and forced boundaries involved….
Not force free here, but we do cool stuff and two of three of my dogs would still want to go hang out with Uncle Stonnie. The Heelers are always down for an adventure. 😂 The third, my Aussie, wouldn’t go. He won’t even leave with my SO if I’m not going with them. He’s my service dog and knows his job is to be with me.
dear mr @stonnie dennis:
haters always gonna hate, but please dont mind them.
just continue the good work 🙏
I like that long leash bc you can just step on it instead of carrying it all the time. Plus the dog MIGHT learn his boundaries. (I know Huskies that love to run) Force free training is like free range parenting. Sometimes you have to say no. There are many ways to say no.
You're actually never supposed to step on a leash but it just shows what a f****** retard this guy is. Seek out some videos from actual canine behavior trainers.
I love this explanation ! Thank you, for taking the time to address this and for stating so clearly, what should make perfect sense. My dog is grateful,too, as she and I have trained using your principles and logic.
Stonnie, your channel is the best resource on dog training I have seen; but also the best channel for people to educate them on specific dog breed requirements before purchase or adoption. Watching dogs perform exercises and hiking in the open with a variety of dog breeds is the best method I have seen to truly uncover the best breed choice based upon the lifestyle of the human wanting a dog. Most people with canine behavioral issues never researched the needs of the dog breed before purchase or adoption. This also applies to parrots. Keeping a Cockatiel is distinct from keeping a Macaw or African Gray in terms of diet, exercise, habitat size, type of exercise required, and the amount of physical contact necessary on a daily basis. People that purchase a Husky or Malamute will have very different relationship/training requirements than people choosing a Labrador Retriever or Standard Poodle, although there will always be shared similarities no matter breed choice. I highly recommend watching this channel to help determine the training requirement difficulties and challenges before bringing any dog breed into your home. Thank you again for sharing your wisdom and experience with us, you are truly a zen master of dog training.
Thank you for watching!
@@StonnieDennis thank you for sharing your skills and discoveries in the world of dogs and dog training.
Stonnie, you are my kind of trainer. Love your videos and your philosophy. Keep bringing us great videos. ❤
I enjoy your videos, your perspective and the very fun things the dogs get to do with YOU!
Hi Stonnie, I just found your channel and I really enjoy your videos. I live in an apartment and mainly use treats to train my little Lagotto Romagnolo. Luckily we live close to the mountains so I can take her out on adventures. I keep her on a leash when hiking. The leash saved her from getting into trouble with a large bull elk yesterday. There is no way she would have come back for treats once she picked up his scent. She doesn't have enough experience to reliably make good decisions so a leash lets her get out and learn safely.
Kara says thanks for the idea to blow out her coat after adventures with the forced air dryer (I got that from your golden doodle video) It lets us get outside instead of spending all day in the bath😂
True. The Force-Free approach is used by some of these trainers to train a dog without corrections; which is, in my honest opinion, just extremely dumb. If I were not to constantly correct my 1 year old Malinois x Dutch Shepherd, she'd end up walking all over me. And that's not something I can't afford to happen. Not for my safety and not for hers either.
That’s not the dogs fault
@@beastinblack4055 What's not the dog's fault?
@beastinblack4055 it's genetics. It's not a bad thing, but it's inheritantly known both breeds succeed with balanced training.
.
@@joyfulk9services I wasn't sure what he was talking about, but yes, they are very strong-minded dogs. She is an absolute sweetheart indoors and outdoors she shows no signs of aggression. But she was showing some extreme resource guarding at first, indoors and outdoors. Which if not corrected, it would've ended up in a lot of fights and possibly me getting hurt if I didn't correct it from the start.
And yes, genetics. I never had these issues to fix with my labrador... her, I'd have to correct not to jump in every pond of water whenever we came across one (for example) 😂
Either way, corrections work and are paramount to good dog behaviour... and yes, sometimes it takes some force to maintain your dominance over the dog.
@@vanguard1424 100% agree. Especially giving YOU confidence to handle those situations too! Resource guarding etc is also no joke! Luckily seems in the rear view, but at least you have a seat belt on always, for sny situations that pop up. Your dogs, your way! As long as happy, healthy & balanced that's fantastic. Remote collars bring a whole level of enjoyment for you and your dog. People inexperienced or never used them cannot truly understand-nor if they've never handled a high drive working breed 😊
Our black lab Hooley walks in the woods for 2 hours a day... but aged 12 months she decided to chase deer. She came back quickly eveytime. But she risked getting gouged by barbed wire or the deer theselves. She has spent 4 months on a lead Walking the woods for 2 hours a day but learning not to chase animals. She now spends most of the time off the lead and is much less of a risk to herself. She was only doing what she was breed to do. But it was putting her at risk. Teaching her boundaries was to protect her and was the only responsible and loving thing to do
MY GSD was a hunter; sight or scent, it didn't matter. I taught her not to chase wildlife with the E-collar. She was off leash in a week. But...I studied how the E-collar works, not just putting it on her and get on with it. Preparing her took two weeks. And I never used it for obedience, just to teach her that wildlife is taboo.
All breeds are different for sure. Huskies love to run, so you have to use force on some breeds. The dog is so much a better dog! You are spot on Uncle Stonnie!
Exactly, you've just hit the nail, the proof is in the pudding. What all those pure-positive, force free is about is pure talking, they never show any reliable work, they say "yes, i'm able to train any kind of dog, even the most difficult without corrections, force and with only love and positive reinforcement", that's the moment when i shoot the challenge, "ok, do it, record it and show me your magic" what happens then is crickets and silence, no more talking
it depends on the definition of 'force' and also how a 'correction' is implement and in what circumstances. Dogs learn best in a positive environment, that is a fact, but totally agree life cant be 100% positive. But it takes alot of skill to get it right.
Whoop! I needed a Stonnie video. They calm the brain and focus the mind.
Gee you should advertise this as a parenting video for kids and dogs!!!
Yes these are GREAT parenting videos uncle Stonnie is a very wise man
Stonnie....you keep doing what you are doing and how you are doing it. The theories behind your dog training are also theories in which a person can "train" up a child. I am talking theory, not physical dog training aids like leashes or collars being used on children.
This culture has gotten too far away from holding one (dog or person) responsible for their own actions, which then can lead to consequences.
CARRY ON, Stonnie 😊
This is the best response I’ve seen to force-free training. Well articulated and humorous.
💯💯💯 I have hunting dogs for years.. i they get to adventure all over the country.. they must have recall & manners.. I use positive and negative reinforcement (force) some need almost no pressure some require quite a bit.. but I’m here to say stopping one hundreds of yards away.. turn from a road, cliff, partially frozen river…..whatever to likely save their life. I use a GPS collar and all of my dogs check in on tone & steady/slow on vibrate but they were all nicked at different levels.. my current Lab (black) 2 which I can hold in my hand with almost no notice like a tickle.. my English Setter 9-11. She’s 6 now and I haven’t nicked her since she was 3 and she’s steady through shot but will track bird after and I missed a pheasant and she was not turning from a road and at over roughly 28-30 mph I needed her to turn back right away. Done right creates a far more zen hunting environment
There's always some force even with force feel training. The collar and lead are force right? But I think most people are referring to hard corrections, prong collars and general rough handling etc which you don't do! Love your channel stonnie!
Yes, we should all strive to be as creative and positive as possible!
lol I doubt uncle stonnie don't use hard corrections, you can't train some dogs like mals and heelers without strong corrections. And nothing wrong with a prong collar
What's wrong with a prong caller and an e-collar training?
Some of them think slip leads like he uses are cruel jajaja
@@97guimaraesyou're telling on your own skills when you say that mals and heelers can't be trained without hard correction. i have trained many dogs without hard corrections, including mals and some mean work-line GSD. the TECHNIQUE is what makes a difference.
Again 100% with ya.
Met a force free dog trainer once. She trained dogs and horses, and she owned two border collies and 5 sheep. Absolutely lovely, wacky Lady.
She was excellent with horses, as far as I can tell, but in the evening, had to bring in the sheep herself. 😂 Her two dogs, 5 and 3 yrs old, were absolutely unimpressed with whatever she told them ...
so good to see you and hear from you Uncle Stonnie!! Looking well. And yeah, we moved from tropical rainforests of North Queensland to suburbian Melbourne... missing our epic mountain hikes as was just a 4 minute walk to the hills from home. Walks and backyard ball have been keeping him happy and tired. Still, we miss our radventures and being owners who did rad stuff. Also seriously miss the beaches!!
I see your point. There are limits on pretty much everything in society, if we are to function cohesively. Same for domesticated animals. What I’ve watched and read about force free training seems to label any other type of training as abuse. They have comments on their videos about prong collars, electronic collars and the like as abusive tools. They feel that any dog, regardless of its breed, temperament amid background can be trained/ managed with treats and kind words. Now, a lot of dogs can be trained successfully that way. I had a wonderful West German GSD female for 11 1/2 years who was the easiest dog in spite of the worst trainer (me). People with dog phobias would cite her as a dog that got them over their fear of dogs. But that is the exception. ( Which I discovered after she passed away and we got other dogs) Anyway, a rambling post to say that I agree with you.
Nice relaxed dogs
And some current discussions are just not good for the most folks involved. Positiv-only or force free being one of them
Hi from a mean mom who forces her kids to brush their teeth Aaaand wash their feet…
These people talking trash are ( TALKING WHEN THEY SHOULD BE LISTENING ) keep up the great work! Keep up the great work Sir !
Thanks for all you do Stonnie I really appreciate all your content and have learned so much from your videos!
I also see a lot of "force free" trolls infantizing their dogs as "fur babies" and such. They're animals that will grow up knowing boundaries and limits or be nightmares to handle. It's "no!" When they try to handle a behavior and the dog completely ignoring them. Will I correct a dog? Absolutely. I will do it fairly. Dogs need corrections. My brothers dog at a year and a half consistently jumps on people as a greeting. Had he simply leashed him in the house and practiced greeting people without jumping, fairly, this wouldn't be an issue. But instead it's "No" and the dog completely ignoring him.
Uncle Stonnie, looks to me like Loki, though he might forget from time to time, really just wants to be around you and your pack. I am in awe of the way you contrive to engineer situations
This man is so chill. What a nice guy
You provide so much great information for those people looking to train a dog, is a shame people want to urgue with you. Keep doing the great work always enjoy those videos 👍💪🐕
WOW! well put! I'v never heard any one explain it better. Thanks. I'l be using that, cause here in Israel things are headed that way to...
Depends what you call force. It’s about non aversive training, to be honest. Force doesn’t have to mean pain or discomfort.
That is an insincere position. Pain and discomfort are inescapable aspects of life.
@@StonnieDennis To a point it can be seen like that I agree, as long as the dog understands why the pain is there and its not just used in a way that the dog ends up getting anxious and fearful, which ive seen and it truly is dreadful, but as much as id use positive reinforcement to teach my dog, and as a general method, I dont deny I have to step in for the dogs own good in terms of safety, and not allow her to make a decision that would have serious consequences, but id never want to make my dog be fearful as that can have foreseen consequences too, and totally agree things like jerking the leash is totally unavoidable sometimes. I think what I meant was people using aversive as their primary training tactic, hitting their dogs, using loud sirens, spraying with water, e-collars etc - almost as though they think their dogs are on a perpetual quest to dominate the world and defy, which clearly isnt the case. Problem is online people do jump to conclusions and get the wrong end of the stick, we are all guilty of that - and it reminds us how important non verbal communication truly is, not just with us but with our dogs too! A positive attitude alone is a great motivator to most dogs, but our modern world is total overload to alot of them and its not easy to strike a balance thats for sure. You have a great location for your dogs and I totally envy it! You are totally correct that if the positive aspects of life outweigh the occasional discomfort then you get a happy dog, but in a city apartment? Not enough happy things to tip the balance sadly.
You are so right, I had to laugh but only cause it’s so true. That’s the world force free raising kids , that’s why the kids are so damn friendly now-a-days.
You tell ‘‘em Stonnie!!!!!!!!
Thanks for this. Our labsky puppy is more husky than lab in our field at home. I always have a thirty foot orange nylon band training lead on her to work with her on recall. Whew what a challenge she is! She is mostly indeferent reward/treats as encouragement. I sometimes give her a little too much freedom and, I'll be darned if shes not making dash for an open gate. I tottally agree with you using force is must to keep your dog safe especially when setting safe boundary limits. However, I am really challenged by "Ruby". My frustration with her is not being able to use positive reinFORCEment effectively for training her. Im sticking with my long lead and, she's is slowly learning the limits and, I'm getting better at keeping her within an appropriate distance.
I'm not in the situation to get my own dog right now, but I follow lots of trainers from all kinds of views to educate myself on as much as I can when I get there. I'm always coming back to your videos since your ideas on what makes a happy, healthy, meaningful and balanced relationship with a dog resonate with me the most. Keep up the good work. :)
Well said….its so obvious…so many people get hung up on a word and don’t think about it…
My understanding is Force Free Training is simply training without punishment or intimidation. I believe what you describe in your video is permissive training, not force free training. Based on all your videos I've watched, you are a Force Free Trainer, and a very good one. ;-)
Stonnie is definatly not force free. Punishmennt is anything uncomfortable for the dog (in any degree) to do/not do what you want. Stonnie's whole "sometimes you have to do things because i say so" while lightly leash popping the dog is a huge force-free "no, no". I'm a huge fan of Stonnie's, he is 100% correct in his approach imo!
I'm not a fan of the type of language people use to define their leash and collar corrections as "lightly popping", as they are being just as dishonest as the force free crowd.
The truth is they jerk the leash as hard as it takes to gain compliance. The artful trainers are able to minimize the amount of force, from a human perspective, but the basic calculation is based on the dog's reaction. From the dog's perspective it isn't lightly popping, it's uncomfortable enough to alter their perception of the activity.
@@StonnieDennis yeah i totally get what you're saying, i like to say "minimum force necessary" but "lightly popping" or "lightly nudging" is the most simple way i can describe it. The least amount of forced used + tons of positive reinforcement is best way to train but what gets me about the FF community is the "absolutuly no force" philosophy. Many even go so far as to say "no" is too adversive. Meanwhile they alter the dog's whole life & enviournment to make sure they cannot make any unsafe descisions. basically a lonely, bubble wrapped life. They can never trust their dog off a long line attached to a harness unless they have 100% control over a fensed enviourment.
Keep doing what your doing!
Have a working line German shepherd
I adopted from a shelter. She was 2&1/2 when I got her--- she'd had 4 previous owners(!) Poor girl. We luve in the city but have a nice large fenced back yard. She was nervous, afraid of noises-- ADHD ( always moving). She bit a dog ONCE when accidently loose -- front door was left open by family member--- and off our property. 😢 She latched onto a harness at the neck the other dog was wearing and held on. Had to force the bite open. We use prong and she is always on a lead, 6ft or 30-ft. Behavioralist vet diagnosed her with anxiety. Put her on Prozac and she's been a different dog with diligent training. Much calmer, still high prey drive with squirrels& rabbits,& passing cars when she's riding in our vehicle. But--- we are managing her. Would love for her to be as relaxed as all your dogs look together. ❤ We have an elderly boston terrier she's never even growled at...they are coexisting and show affection mutually. Not food aggressive at all. People friendly/neutral. Just leash reactive toward dogs. But don't feel comfortable trusting her to meet any other dogs because I don't have the skills for tjis. She barks ferociously at certain dogs on our walks, ignores others.
Does she sound like a candidate for socialuzation, or will she be labeled dog aggressive for life? Thanks.
Stonnie is a force free trainer if I've ever seen one. It all comes down to how you define it, that being said putting a leash on a dog is about responsibility and safety, not force. Dogs were trained/disciplined a lot rougher when I was growing up and the way I see Stonnie train dogs is miles away from what people who didn't know any better used to do.
So true! I remember my dad beating our dog when he killed a chicken. It was brutal for a little kid to watch, but it didn't result in the dog being afraid of him, but respect was certainly there. I'm not an advocate of that now, with so many great options available, but it was the way things were and probably are in various places.
You are my favorite dog trainer. I wish I could bring my dog to work with you. Force free training sounds silly, if they had my two year GSD they would know that it is impossible!
No, it’s not. I took Stonnie my third GSD for his socialization and training while Covid was ongoing. It was the only way he was going to meet other pups. He is now 2 1/2 and is pretty perfect.
Depends how you define force free to be honest. Many interpretations of it. Corrections don’t have to be physical. Verbal correction works fine for my lab, and it’s not even confrontational.
If a correction works then it’s confrontational from the dog’s perceive, no?
Very well said Stonnie
i would be interested to hear your opinion on "tools" like corals, shock-collars etc...
Fantastic video - you are a real dog trainer, working in the real world. Dealing with the same issues at the moment in terms of a dog not respecting the rules so this video is well timed for me, thank you!
Stonie is the man!!! Use the “force” lmao
Stonnie, I've been following for a while & watching a few videos here and there & I really don't understand what you do to get these dogs to behave so well with you. Don't get me wrong, you're absolutely doing something right but in the time I've been following I haven't seen much of training "tools", usually you're just using a leash.
What would you say you specialize in? Confidence building through basic agility? What makes you trust these dogs off leash? Would you trust them off leash in a new area such as a trail for the first time? Would love to hear your answers!
I've been training my dog through e collar training over the past several months & we're now at a point where offleash hikes are 100% an option. Personally for us, without ecollar training we'd be using a long line forever - not because we can't trust him but because our city leash law is "leash or other means of control" - which means "ecollar" because there is no other form of control other than a leash or "digital" leash
Also, how long have you been working with dogs? Every video I watch you definitely seem to know what you're talking about & you have all of your marbles together. Seriously, for someone who doesn't use any tools I wouldn't have guessed you'd have a comeback video to the "force free" epidemic.
Hell, as a kid I wanted to run around and explore every mall in America. My momma had me on a childs backpack leash!! Ain't no way Jayson was running away haha. I was forced to stay! Today she'd be called a bad parent all for wanting me to be safe... It's crazy...
Anyways, would love to hear back from you on my few questions. Thank you for your time Stonnie!
You would be amazed at how few tools are needed to help a dog adapt to an environment designed for them to be successful.
Most dog training technique, tools, etc... are only necessary because dogs are asked to adapt to sub optimal environments on sub optimal schedules.
The right dog, in the right place, at the right time, requires almost zero effort.
The dogs look very happy. Pretty place too!
Great stuff Stonnie!
So true. Most of my life, I had dogs that I trained with love AND discipline. For some reason, with my latest adoption, I was talked into listening to the 'force free' trainers. What a disaster! I was using the harness that came with the dog. I know now, harnesses are made to pull sleds - and me through the yard! And she hated that harness. Now, I have a prong collar and she sticks her neck out for me to put it on and go out. Now she obeys and I will wean her off the collar, but I wasted months getting brainwashed with these new force free trainers. I wonder if they have kids?
No, they do not have kids for the most part; the ones that do, have kids in therapy…
Lol i love your philosophy on training vids, like this and the “look in the mirror” vid. Nobody else talks about that stuff. Make the dog like you…makes sense lol
Good one.
You are very good behind the camera sir. The scene along with the message and delivery made a great video!
Well said! I have a traumatized dominant female rescue that was a reactive mess. I tried distractions and treats, but her DNA shows her to be GSP, Australian cattle dog and malamute, so pretty headstrong, and she needed more.
I watched hours of videos and had to start defining boundaries with her, fairly forcefully at first, because treats and distractions were no match for her "target lock" and prey drive. It's been a year and I'm happy to report that she's SO much better. She's a part of my business and clients love her. She requires exercise, obviously, and although leash training was a challenge, she'd rather go (and behave) than not. In life, there are consequences for our actions and every day we choose to participate in various constraints and rules in order to live peacefully (well, at least some of us do).
I've acquired a few "troubled" dogs. Each time it took about 6 months to mostly straighten them out. Perhaps I'm ignorant, but I don't think that there's a fast-track way around that. It always seems to require months of Patience.
Amen!
Force, being strict, words like, "no" are OK, so long as you remember one key rule: Never punish your dog while s/he is learning. DO this, and your dog will always want to be with you.
Stone, my dog will mind sometimes on command but most of the time he will not. Let's put it this way--if there is a squirrel he would like to chase it rather than mind and cars make that a real dangerous situation.
The thing I always say to people who give dumb, touchy feely advice like "force free"... Where are you going to be when something terrible happens from your advice? Are you going to apologize or make it up to me? No, you'll be conveniently absent, and I'll get to live with it.
It's good that you point out the importance of using clear language in communicating and show that extreme views are almost never a good thing.
I've never heard the expression "force free" training, but I still think you may be taking it out of context. I've known AKC people who after years of using methods that rely on punishment suddenly discover that they can get better results with less stern methods. The people using this phrase may be participating in competitive obedience or other dog sports. In competitive obedience there are activities like the dumbbell carry and other random stuff. Some people use a lot of force and punishment to train these silly stunts while others focus on making it fun for the dog and use shaping or connecting with the dog's drive. I think these people are very cool with using force should their dog be doing something dangerous or rude to another dog or just really undesirable. But much of their training isn't about basic manners, and is it cool to use force to train your dog to dance with you or sniff the ground and never raise your head to sniff the air in tracking? maybe not. Also, sometimes a redirection is as effective as a correction and some old school trainers are just waking up to this and people see the old school methods, are excited about new methods and aren't careful with their language.
Some people are prone to getting caught up in language and will accidentally take things to the extreme, but if they see the results of balanced training they will figure things out. Sometimes we need to use force free people training and lead them in the right direction, and sometimes we need forceful interventions depending on the situation.
It’s force free or it’s not; context isn’t in play.
I’m responding to the label, I didn’t create it.
Siberian Huskies love to run….25 miles is nothing for a full grown Siberian…he/she looks like it’s having a good adventure with you and the other dogs !
I couldn't stop laughing when you were talking about Loki .... I own a Malamute
Stonnie Dennis mic drop to the FF community. Love it! Pretty much all dogs would choose YOU, except maybe those tea cup dog or purse dogs.
Force can mean pushing your dog away from the table, or tugging the leash or removing something gross from its mouth, things that alot of us cant avoid doing for their own good, but equally it could mean an e-collar shock or being hit in the face or even worse forms of abuse to force compliance. Its too broad a term to get to the point properly really in my opinion as it truly is a big spectrum of methods that vary in how severe they are. I for once would never abuse an animal directly, but if given the choice of a dog eating chocolate off the sidewalk or getting run over by a car? That leash will get pulled with all my strength to remove the dog from making that decision without question. As stonnie implied, life isnt about 100% luxury even for dogs.
Force free seems like something that works if your life is 100% in line with your dogs wants. And also if the world is 100% in line with your dogs wants so you never have to force them to mind other people. Maybe there’s a breed where that’s possible. I don’t know.
What I do know is husky’s are 100% NOT that breed.
The fact that that also applies to children explains a lot.
Hi Stonnie. Your videos are the best and I continue to learn so much. Would you be able to do a video about dogs meeting horses out on the trails? Thanks for everything that you share with us!
This is such a funny down to earth way of addressing the silly argument that force free is the only correct way. 'Plastic prison with a crazy lady', haha.
I'm frustrated by the seeming hypocrisy within the 'force-free' dog training community. Learning something new often requires facing challenges and some pressure. For instance, when I bring a dog reactive to other dogs on a positively led socialization walk, the very situation can create pressure, even though we use a reward-based training system and maintain a safe distance.
While I firmly believe in conditioning and reward-based training as a foundation, setting boundaries, teaching a dog to manage emotions in tough situations, confronting challenges, and using personalized corrections can be integral to the training process. These elements apply whether you identify as 'force-free' or 'balanced' (labels I find limiting and dislike).
The importance of a well-rounded approach to dog training, recognizing that effective training often includes elements beyond purely positive reinforcement. People should just acknowledge that various methods and tools can have their place, depending on individual circumstances.
Nailed it! It’s so simple
Love this example
Discipline = Freedom
Of course you are exactly on point, as always. Common sense appears to be at an all time low
I've watched a few of your videos before and while I thought you were doing a great job and seemed very knowledgeable, it wasn't necessarily what I was looking for to help with my shepherd mix and my malinois. Completely agree with you on this take here as I've had to set a few dummies online straight with their ignorant judging philosophies and impractical methods. Subscribed and looking forward to gaining some more insight into your techniques. Also, I used to live in Hardin county and just seeing you wander through the Kentucky woods makes me miss that scenery.
Ha! This isn't the episode I thought it would be but it was hilarious.
Thank you !❤