Why Reva In Obi-Wan Kenobi Was A BAD Character...
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- čas přidán 26. 06. 2022
- Star Wars fans, we need to talk about Reva in Obi-Wan Kenobi... There's a lot to get into here, but let's do an objective deep dive on why this character was not written well! There are some really good ideas here, but the execution was SO BAD... Let's discuss!!
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Star Wars fans, we need to talk about Obi-Wan Kenobi Episode 5! This one needs to be amazing for me, and I want to explain what I mean by that... Luckily, there are MANY dope things that we think will be in the final 2 episodes of Kenobi! Anakin flashbacks? Another Vader fight? Reva is the chosen one?? LET'S GET SWEATY!!
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Star Wars fans, let's talk about Obi-Wan Kenobi Episode 4 on Disney Plus! Now, after being wounded and embarrassed by Darth Vader, Kenobi will be brought to Jabiim to heal. Will he find purpose and hope in this Episode? Will he train to fight Vader again in order to rescue Leia? How will Reva and Darth Vader treat the young princess? Let's go over it all!! - Zábava
I didn’t care about her ethnicity or her being a woman. I care more about it just being a bad character with bad writing. Like the last episode with the Luke thing…what was the point of that?? Just sloppy.
It was sloppy because she was supposed to die in episode 5. But then the whole episode 6 was reshot to make room for a potential future.
This show was storyboard storytelling (Pixar/Disney) run amok
@@ryanb9749 why tf did they reshoot it?
@@mrj4082 Rumor: Reva series.
@@mrj4082 if they wanted to do a Reva series, they should have done it before Kenobi so that she was an established character and required screen time. Disney makes no sense.
As soon as Reva appeared in the very first trailer, I along with many others knew exactly what her story would be. A forced, villain to hero arc. The problem? It’s been done over and over in Star Wars. It’s redundant. There’s no reason to care. On top of that, she was poorly written with a ridiculous amount of plot armor.
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And a ridiculous amount of screen time. She took the screen time of Vader and Kenobi. And if you think about it, she is the only inquisitor who used her lightsaber in combat. The GI spun his once, and the fifth brother and forth sister didn’t even use theirs.
@@longlivethesith7660 Holy shit you're right 😱 There was literally zero inquisitor action in the whole show. Just when you think you cant be more pissed at Disney/Lucasfilm, you get realisations like that 🤦♂️ RIP Star Wars 💔
@@xx_mojat_xx Honestly it gets worse. The good thing about the show is that we got more of Ewan and Hayden. But the bad thing is, the ROS had more action than this. Disney, just bring GL back as a producer, your ruining SW
And it also didn't help that she can NOT act. Terrible writing but even worse acting. I'm sure she's a great person on a personal level but sorry, sister, your acting is atrocious
I think the question of whether or not they wanted Reva to be a Diversity Token is irrelevant because even if Reva was a Straight White Guy, if the story and dialog was the same, they would still be a Bad Character
Exactly.
You know most Star Wars fans see a black person and they start to cry , the insecurity is pitiful
@@elderdiggs5951 ok lil man 🤣 if you really think the reason why sum ppl don’t like a character is cause of race then ur the real problem. Lol It’s time to stop being racist
That doesn't change the fact she was a diversity hire. She was wrongly misplaced in that show. Terrible decision by disney but im not even surprised at this point. They support little kids being taught about gender swapping from a young age. Disgusting company
It’s true, the storyline and dialogue for Reva was so forced, especially early on when the audience is making their first impressions. That scream while pointing at Obi-Wans ship taking off was just awkwardly awful. The writing in the scenes with the other inquisitors was a big disservice to her as well.
People hated how Obi-wan himself was written and Ewan, a hetero white male, is generally universally loved by fans.
Everything points to the issue being bad writing rather than sex/race. Of course there are racist trolls, but they don’t speak for the fans at large.
I felt she traded sides very quickly for someone who had a life long hatred for Obi Wan. I get she could hate Vader just as much at the same time but it just felt very wishy washy
Bruh, she's one of the last Jedi to survive after Order 66. It's not wishy washy. She had no choice but to join the empire especially if she wanted to get close enough to kill Vader. She doesn't like or trust Vader or Obi Wan so she has a similar distain for them both.
Kk killed Star Wars
@@ShawnWeeded510 it's still wishy washy, just not the way the OP meant, she had better chances killing Vader before he gave her one, and he didn't even help her in a combined attempt.
She didnt hate obi wan so much as she knew if she found him she could draw out vader. She definitely didnt like him but her real goal was anakin. She changed sides because she realize she was about to become everything she hated when she tried to kill luke. It makes sense
… she didn’t have a life long hatred for Obi Wan. She had a lifelong hatred for Darth Vader and Obi Wan was the way to get to him.
I was genuinely excited when Vader force choked her into the air because I knew this was the scene in which she'd finally be killed off, and then Vader pulled the least Vader move he's ever pulled and didn't kill her. When she said she put a tracker on the ship Vader would have replied something like "Good, that will go far in assisting me with fixing your failure!" before he snapped her neck with the force, allowed her limp body to slap the ground, and then done his patented "Darth Vader cape twirl" right out of the room.
That would have been fantastic! That’s how she needed to be felt with!
Reva was predictable since she walked on screen. And she added nothing to the story. Nothing against Moses. It’s the script and directing
Tbh she did add to the story by kidnapping Leia. Obi Wan would never have left and would have stayed a broken man if not for her
@Joshua Barbato facts
The way Moses is so cocky and acts like she deserves all the recognition she gets because her character is „badass“ I can’t really sympathize with the actress and really dislike her
@Joshua Barbato her arc is literally a worse version of Trillas (in my opinion) Trilla is the Ideal inquisitor, Reva is what happens when ur character has too much plot armour
@@Jermrants ☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️
Calculated agendas is a massive part of Hollywood these days. I don’t doubt that Moses Ingram is a fantastic person, but her character just didn’t fit what Star Wars is for me. But that’s just me personally. I’m sure others loved her character and that’s perfectly okay too.
I agree. I felt her character, not the actress, but the character was too entitled.
Spot on everything nowadays has to fit the woke agenda and then when people are critical they blame 'racist', 'sexist' and 'toxic' fan bases as that's easier to do that instead of blaming themselves for shoving identity politics and political view points down our throats.
In reality a tiny minor make bad comments (don't condone) but they blame everyone
@@tylorabdnor5562 yeah I agree like she really was tryna get in the way between obi wan and darth vader
@@tylorabdnor5562 Yea and cocky
She worked fine
Have you seen the Kai Patterson re-edit of the Kenobi series? Transforms it into a movie and solves a lot of problems with the Reva character. Much better paced and flows better as a story.
Totally agree with your view here. Problem also is that they also wanted us to feel like Reva was intimidating and powerful, but she is just not intimidating whatsoever. Instead she came off annoying more-so than anything else.
Honestly, I didn't really feel like she was *meant* to be intimidating. More like a brat who isn't getting her way, so she is doing rash things to try to seem powerful. The 5th brother, grand inquisitor, and Vader all look at her as an idiot (though tbf they do stupid stuff in this show too).
A character is made interesting by facing conflict and being forced to act outside of the character’s comfort zone. We like seeing characters be tested and how they change because of that conflict. No struggle means no real growth. It’s why we love Batman vs Joker; Joker tests Batman’s ethos at every level, forces him to reevaluate his own ways.
Exactly! This is the same problem with Rey. Never really pushed out of her comfort zone. At least not far enough.
one punch man
Reva was a minor character. She was only there for Obi Wan to help and grow. She’s a plot device!
Why wouldn’t Vader take over after episode 2 and Reva being the leader of this
Great commentary, as usual! There are so many ways they could've brought this NEW character into the hearts & minds of SW fans....like Din Djarin; we saw his struggle, he almost always needed help to succeed. And now he is a beloved character to millions of fans.
And he could have been any race because of the mask!
The difference is The Mandalorian was about... A "Mandalorian". They should have minimized her role or changed the narrative completely... For those who have an issue.
She became more of a distraction than a good addition to the show.
I am fed up of folk being made out to be racist, this actress is atrocious, she was barely in queens gambit, frauded her way to some award nomination owing to color, and now we can not call her out on having no talent, or else we are an ist or a phobe. hahahaha nah she is simply terrible !!
Reva skywalker 😂
Reva is Finn’s mother.
Ooh, good theory.🤔
The sequels don’t exist anymore lol
@@srod349 Why because they're both black?
As cool as that would be, I hate that every character has to be connected to someone
Ya even if that’s true, I don’t think Boyaga will ever come back to SWs
I think the thing that needs to be more talked about is Deborah Chow. Was she a good pick to direct this series?
That's a good point. But, how do you direct bad writing? I have a feeling she did the best anyone could with what she was given.
@@Callisto_Arcas I can answer with how good she looked directing Mandalorian with Great writing. I think there is good directing with bad writing and it is visibly noticeable. Cannot think of much off the top of my head except Jurassic World 2, the writing for that is Horrid but I feel the directing was really good. The dino fights were some of the best in that universe. Other than that can't think of something off the top of my head can get back to you.
@@Callisto_Arcas I mean, the chase scenes, the parkour scenes, the shaky camera, etc. Those dont have anything to do with writting
@@Callisto_Arcas why direct if it's bad writing?? She has plenty of cash! I'm sure she was paid well but would still be able to eat without doing the work. She made the decision to drive a broken car to a car show. She could have said no thank you
This show has some of the worst camera work I’ve ever seen. It was literally fan film quality.
Being someone of colour I think it is dumb that people think she is a character because of just trying to have a black female character, even though I hate the character too I think there are just not enough people of colour in star war’s so when you introduce a black female character it looks like they did it because to just have a black character and I think if Reva was a male and or white or a alien she would not have gotten that much hate because of the character. That’s just my thoughts i loved Kenobi just not as much as I would have liked, so what im trying to say is that because their is a black female character is makes it look like there’re trying to just be inclusive but I think it is just bad writing for the wrong character at the wrong time. Looking forward to seeing Nerd Theory tonight MTFBWY
Agreed ! Star Wars has always been inclusive in its casting.
I think people feel overloaded because all of these companies are overloading us. Everyone’s trying to be break through inclusive for financial reasons which has dissipated the actual effect of these castings.
That being said I didn’t like the entire series reva aside it just feels so dang rushed we need character building.
Thank you fam, calculated and explained very nicely for the people who weren’t understanding! It’s not her herself or her (juice) as you mention it’s really the writing and the way she and the cameras are *Directed*, along with the fluidity thru the narrative. Really hitting the nail on the head here Josh🤘🏽
6 Episodes wasn't enough time to develop a new character in the Kenobi series. If anything there should've been an Inquisitors/Reva series that covered her surviving/escaping the Jedi Temple up until the Kenobi series (saving her connection to Anakin for Kenobi).
this was a fantastic video man. very well put together.
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I think the problem is there was alot going on in just 6 episodes. They were trying to introduce us to a new character among all the other plots with young Luke, Leia, the Inquisitors, Anakin and Obi-Wan , Tala Owen, etc - so many characters. So, Reva's character wasn't really written very well. I think if the show had been 10 episodes, the writing of her character and other plot issues could have been better addressed. But, despite that I enjoyed it. I'm hoping there is a season 2 and seeing Anakin and Obi-Wan again was great! Plus, young Leia was adorable.
Have you ever watched television before? Take any episode of Incredible Hulk or the Fugitive! A character is introduced, the main character has to help the new character and they move on. All in less than an hour! The difference in this is was they spread that hour over a few episodes. But the story could have been told in one episode then the other episodes could have been One episode about Leia, one episode about the Empire woman. One episode about the Jedi railroad and one Episode where he fights Vader. The only difference is they spread the various stories into various episodes rather than making it episodic and only focusing on one story an episode!
I don’t think too many characters is an issue
My favorite show in all of television “Dark” introduces 19 characters who are pivitol to the plot + some side characters who have more minor roles to play all within the first episode alone and that show only has 8 episodes per season. The Show can balance the complex plot and large cast very easily due to great writing and directing. It can handle its own ambition because it has the skills to pull it off
I think there was probably a writing and directing problem for Obi Wan tbh that can really make or break cinema
@@mrfloosak a show doesn’t need to be episodic either to be good :((
@@AK-Drakoin Yeah, you're right, I agree.
@@AK-Drakoin true. Obi Wan Kenobi was a great series
Best video on CZcams!!!! I couldn't have summarized it all better 👏👏👏👏👏
I think you hit the nail on the head. I've been trying to figure out how to fix Reva from a writing standpoint. Ultimately they should have given us more of her back story earlier in the series to promote some investment in her. Due to lack of context, her actions seem pretty contradictory. I think we all guessed she was one of the younglings featured in the order 66 scene. So....she wants revenge on Vader for killing Jedi, so.....she joins a Jedi killing squad to get to Vader....wait so she is killing Jedi to get back at the guy she hates for killing Jedi? Then she fails so she runs off to kill a son that Vader doesn't even know about yet....because you know what's a little child murder after a bunch of Jedi murders....got get my revenge after all. Her motivations didn't jive with her actions, now perhaps if we saw more of how she had come to take those actions things would line up more. As it stands now, she just didn't make much sense narratively.
She shouldve died protecting obi wan and leia. While vader is busy trying to hold the ship with the force, she strikes while he is vulnerable.
Vader sees it coming all along and defeats her easily but the distraction allowed obi wan to get off world and escape.
Her character satisfies it's arc and place in canon. Vader doesn't have to be a complete jobber for Obi Wan. Vaders identity and leias connection to the jedi dies with Reva.
They wanted a new character that would be like a second hand bad-guy with a cool background but they did use her in the right way. The actor did a great job playing the character however the direction the script had her going was to, fast. We didn’t see enough of her to get to know her before the character changed and in some places of the show she almost replaced where Vader should have been.
Love u Josh!
Honestly, it felt like she was walking through the show with cheat codes...so I dubbed her with the nickname "Game Genie." Also, Grace is out there on Twitter referring to Gina Carano as anti-Semitic so it's hard to take anything she says seriously anymore.
Wish Gina had been in the show! She is missing from SW big time!
Cmon guys we all know why Reva was in the series.
Regarding your question in the video, about the character of Reva being made just to have more diversity in the show, is yes. I can't of course not know for sure, but I think it is very likely.
Perfectly well said. You described every thought in my head about this character since the finale but couldn’t really put the words together to say it out loud.
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100%. Yes. I absolutely agree. I would take it a step further and say that the Grand Inquisitor situation and the Reva walking away at the end knowing everything is just so counter to everything cannon. Forced. Big time.
At the end of the day I just "Didn't think about it to much to much to much" also great morning stream
Too*
🎶 Don't Think About It Tooo Much 🎶
This problem has nothing to do with diversity at all. She's simply a half-assed character in a show that can't decide if it wants to give it's main- or side characters screen time, in a show that's only six episodes.
You can show her story and motivations all you want, but we didn't spend enough time with her to connect with her, and to like her.
She's already off to a bad start in a show about Kenobi and vader, so she was never gonna succeed.
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It would’ve been fine if they introduced her a just a bit in Kenobi and then saved her full story for the actual reva show, but THE REVA HAS TAKEN OVER!!!
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Her story arch is like a dollar store Darth Maul on 32x ff
Well said, Josh. It’s not like they didn’t have time to write this show. They’ve been thinking about it for 10yrs!! Can you imagine the storyline if we get a rushed season 2??
One problem is that Hollywood believe that they have to add these characters or there will be an outcry for representation. Even though that in some cases might be true, the most important thing will always for the wider audience be how they are portrayed. Lando and Mace Windu were both POC and even though i might be too young i cant recall ever hearing about anyone hating on them. I just feel that they have to take a step back, analyze their stories and characters before they release content. Rather wait a bit longer for a show or movie thats good, than getting stuff close together that f-ing sucks.
If you think this now bad for a character of the Kenobi show, then maybe you could agree with how bad the narrative was for Dr. Strange Multiverse of Madness movie and how it’s lack of building up the film failed the characters of the movie.
Darth Vader SHOULD HAVE Count Dooku’d Her.
Simply put, great video Josh, explained well as always, I must agree with your statements
Reva the bestest EVA!
This video sums up why I didn’t like her character exactly. It all just feels forced, rather than organic.
Great explanation Josh. Well done.
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Yes, she was obviously added for the sake of representation. Still, I can live with that if the character works, and that character doesn't work. For starters, we shouldn't have as much Reva screen time as Obi-Wan screen time in an OBI-WAN show.
Why did she survive 3 lightsaber holes? Qui-Gon got screwed!
It's like golf, the fewer the lightsaber holes the better the character.
great video hit the nail on the head !!!
Damn this was really good I love your explanation for this
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A fair, comprehensive, intelligently researched, multifaceted, well articulated explanation...Well stated Josh👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾...
Let me add, I believe the character/actress would've been better served if, as with other inquisitors, had she been adorned with a head covering or makeup, hiding her physical features until the conversation with Obi-Wan, revealing Reva's true intentions. This would've served two purposes: 1) Audiences wouldn't have easily deduced that Reva was the youngling at the Jedi Temple, saving that as a surprise in episode 5; and 2) a covering/makeup would've had the added benefit of hiding Moses Ingrams' skin color, thereby dissipating the racism directed at the actress earlier in the series.
Just a thought.🤷🏾♂️
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She was absolutely fine as a side character...did not take anything away from the show
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Remember when Luke in the original trilogy talked about how a woman in all black with a red lightsaber came to the moisture farm, almost killed Owen and Beru and chased him into the desert and almost killed him??
Okay, I just learned about sign-posting today. That was a great analysis, I'm also thinking in the same camp as you. I don't want characters to be thrown into a show just for the sake of Tokenism. All characters, no matter if they are central like Kenobi, Vader, Reva, Leia, need to be done with the same emotional depth, and good story telling.
Was thinking about this and my main problem is that the writers did not commit to the character of Reva fully as a POV character, in the finished product. Aside from the reveal in Ep 5, we should have know who and what she was (minus some particulars perhaps) from Ep2 at the latest. And it should have been /blatant/. We should have seen a fb where she makes the decision to walk this path. It would have upped the stakes and added real tension because here we are, the audience, who knows "everything" while the other characters do not, all the while wondering how much they know, do they suspect, how is she going to pull this off? How far is she willing to go? In each ep we would be looking really closely to see the reactions of others around her, we'd be invested in what she is trying to do cause we are rooting for her and afraid for her. Any time Vader is on screen, we'd be wondering how long before he finds out. It's how suspense works. And let's say that she knows Vader heads the inquisitors which is why she hates him, but that is all.
There is no mention of him being "Anakin" not until we see the full reveal at the end of Ep5 where she sees his face in the past and from the moment that Vader calls her "youngling" and is standing over her only then does she for sure know WHO Vader is just as she is about to be stabbed. Only then does she make that connection. We never knew she knew and even she was unable to accept it. She was a child, she was traumatized, a lot was happening. (She certainly doesnt shout it from the rooftops. She mentions 'Lord Vader" in Ep 2 and Obi Wan of course makes the connection himself because he saw the video in RoTS.) That would have been truly chilling. Her "confession" to Obi Wan at the wall , her admission to hunting him would be even more charged because we've been carrying the weight of this secret with her for several eps just like we have been carrying the weight of Obi-Wan's emotional burden, Anakin's conflict when we see him staring into hyperspace. We actually get to care about her.
It is far more challenging and emotionally compelling to write a story where the audience knows things, where you are responsible for showing how that occurs, putting in the work to suck the viewer in . Far easier, imo, to write something that serves to confuse the audience, where you are holding most of the cards, so to speak, and get to parade some "twist" later. It is lazy writing and the "twist" is rarely satisfying and not worth all of the hedging. Think of how much more intense the interrogation scene with Leia could have been if we knew she really did not want to do it. And let's say she is not so much doing it on her own but there is this expectation that she must do it. And she is obviously being observed. And the hell of it is, they could achieve this without detracting from the main conflict between Obi-Wan and Darth Vader. It could have just added to it, by introducing another point of view and giving yet another perspective on events where we really /feel/ yet again how tragic and messed up all of this. The fall of the Jedi and the take over by the Empire becomes even more gut-wrenching. It's all about knowing what to conceal and what to reveal for the maximum emotional impact. I just do not think that they handled Reva with the finesse necessary. I really liked her at the end, but it could have been a much richer experience. And with only six episodes, it needed a greater focus, and perhaps fewer chase scenes.
Well the force is female so that’s why Reva could do and know everything. Like the dark force ability of healing herself as a child while she was training with the Jedi and the female force told her Luke was Vaders son. It’s amazing. Bestest evaaaaa
@Jesus' Ho lol “Jesus’ ho” please continue to try and criticize anything with that name. It’s perfect. Man, what a treat you are.
@Jesus' Ho wow the gift that keeps on giving. What other over used internet terms do you have in your vocabulary?
Hit the right notes and I agree completely with this perspective! Thanks for saying this man. 👍
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I agree with pretty much everything you said.
I do think she was intentionally created at least to be a woman because Disney likes their women to be better than the men, and it's pretty likely they wanted her to be a WOC because of their diversity quotas and opportunity to virtue-signal "Look at us! We're not racist! Ignore the way we act globally!"
My main problem with the character in the beginning was that she appeared to be only written as the stereotyped "angry black woman" with no other explanation as to why she was so mad and obsessive. I didn't like when teenage Anakin and Kylo Ren were written with temper tantrums either. It makes them look very immature, in my opinion.
By the end, we find out the WHY she was so obsessed but it didn't really make sense to me. She hated Vader for killing her Jedi friends so she decided to kill Jedi to get closer to Vader? I'd have preferred it if they threw in a twist where we find out none of those Jedi were actually killed but rerouted to that underground railroad and sent off safely to the resistance.THAT would have been a better revelation, for me anyway. That group was already there in the story, why not secretly hook her up with them? It would have made her more likable, especially if they really want to give her a spin-off series as is rumored.
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The lack of stakes was the main problem with the show. Nothing bad could happen to any of the protagonists. Reva was the only character with any real potential, and I like her character. The issues with the series are about more than just her exposition. They told a story that ultimately mattered very little to the larger continuity. And what intimacy and development it did bring was unneeded and added very little in terms of layers to the characters. This is the kind of problem that comes from stories that fill in the gaps in larger continuities. It’s hard to make that matter. The key would have been to avoid Luke and Leia entirely and find a different reason to lure Ben out of hiding.
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This has to be the most coherent explanation of what went wrong in the Kenobi Show. Thanks Josh! keep up the great work.
agreed however I personally don't think her performance was good in anyway. I could never buy into the character performance. Also the makeup and entire look of the character of Reva just looked terrible imo. I personally think she was a bad pick for the role.
A lot of great points.
People tend to forget, including Moses that she is not the first victim of bad writing.
Daisy Ridley is white and Star Wars fans have criticized the character of Rey for years.
So race has nothing to do with it.
We also have had Lando, Mace, and Finn.
I don’t think I have ever heard a Star Wars fan throw a racist comment out about Lando or Mace. If anything, they want to see more Mace and have him return to canon.
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The main problem i had with the show is it felt rushed which meant the characters weren't fleshed out enough. I liked moses Ingram she was really good in the queen's gambit. It was just the writing I had a problem with.
Has anyone added up the all the characters screen time?
Thank you! I really appreciate your concise evaluation of her character and Disney issues with writing.
I really liked the character of Nala and would have much preferred they spent more time on her than Reva. Liked little Leia too, my only problem with her was that it potentially created plot holes every time she interacted with Obiwan. I didn’t care for one part of the Reva story, no matter who played the character.
Honestly, I think Reeva is a product of a previous script more than anything. I think the idea behind her originally was to have someone Obi-Wan could fight and kill in the series that wouldn't disrupt the established story. So that it wasn't just constant running.
I'm not saying there wouldn't have been a final fight with Vader. But I think Reeva was meant to be a type of mini boss for Obi-Wan at one point.
But somewhere along the line, they changed their mind and came up with this whole youngling backstory.
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This might be the useful/constructive video you have EVER done! This has got be seen by everyone no matter which side you come down on. Once again keep it coming and speaking the truth!
The writers in Kenobi were just plain bad. Once again I agree with you that Reva’s story arc sounds really great, but was poorly executed by the writing room.
Wait so Anakin isn't as dope as I thought? He couldn't even kill a youngling?
@6:00 the Inquisitors knew they had no authority on Tattooine. It was controlled by Jabba. Take your Jedi, and leave. Hurt his subjects, you risk war, or Jabba cutting off the space trade to Palpatine
Preach it, Josh! Excellent analysis.
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Man, my take on it was, I didn’t think her performance was particularly great. Queens Gambit was great, just not necessarily here. Also, the more we talk about the color of someone’s skin, the less it allows us to just objectively watch and say something. I don’t car what Disney’s reason for hiring her was. If I liked her story and her acting in this show, I’d support it. I literally though the Inquisitor’s in their entirety were terrible. Almost unnecessary. I did however like the series, I just fast forward their parts now lol.
Weird seeing how diversity is an argument when Star Wars has been diverse since EP 4. Mace Windu, Adi Gallia, Depa Billaba, poc are in Star Wars already.
Revas character would’ve been GREAT if Disney stepped out of the 6-8 episode series method. Marvel does this and now Star Wars does it.
I don’t blame the writing. I blame the neglect of the corporations in charge to not see how important a title like “Kenobi” is upon the past 3 generations.
I loved Reva , just wished we had more time to answer all of the complaints towards continuity. I’m prolly alone on this one lol
I would also argue Disney needs to extend its episode running time. There are episodes that are under 40 minutes and it is hard to tell a compelling narrative with such time constraints. They should be a minimum of 50 minutes an episode. Reva really could have benefited in having her character fleshed out more instead of just relying on plot conveniences just to serve the story. In where we left off with her character I find her redemption to be far more compelling. I could see her dedicating herself to The Path and even running into a former Jedi like Cera Junda who helps mentor her in finding her purpose in the Force.
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@@captainmofongo584 agreed to be honest I would’ve have loved if Obi-Wan tracked down Quinlan Vos and had Reva stay with him and learn how to adapt as a light sided person again. But I disgress cuz Disney.
if im not mistaken, isnt reva from the fallen order game?
You're spot on here, Josh... and I sincerely appreciate your well thought out opinion. A diversity hire, if such a thing was the case, would not inherently make a character better or worse. Personally, I'm all about a black woman being given a big role, in a big show... unfortunately for Moses, the character wasn't ideally developed / written. I do think the arc over the 6 episodes, improved my opinion of the Reva character compared to say the first 2-3 episodes , and Moses is a GREAT actor, but she was given a role that was going to be divisive among a lot of SW, fans from the start. Someone so apparently crucial to the Skywalker Saga, whom we have never heard of before, and saw more of then Hayden (masked or otherwise), seems next to impossible to pull off successfully, regardless of the character's gender or race.
2:07 don't fly too close to the sun Icarus, your wings may melt.
Amen Josh. Thank you. May the force be with you.
Vader's mask getting damaged and the words shared between him and Obi-Wan has probably become one of my favorite scenes in all of Star Wars. Say what you want about the rest of the series, but this specific moment is perfectly written, directed, and acted. Ewan McGregor and Hayden Christensen have such good on-screen chemistry. Ewan nails Alec Guiness' speech pattern perfectly. Hayden gets a lot of flak for the prequels sometimes but honestly it's the dialog's fault and not his. George Lucas wrote some wonky lines for that role in the prequel.
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Hi Josh, If Disney+ green light a potential second season of The Book of Boba Fett and Obi Wan Kenobi how would you fix S2 of the Star Wars series
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Reva really had more screen time than the Grand Inquisitor smh.
If I can find the video I will send it but the original writer of the film adaption of kenobi stated he wrote Reva for a 2hr film arch. When Disney decided to make it a TV show, he claimed they took his ideas, chopped it up ruined the arch by doing their own thing with it. He had no input in the show beyond taking his film ideas and he’s already spoken out about it. But like I said I’ll track down the video of the CZcamsr that covered the story.
The problem is that Disney is rushing out content without really baking it all the way until it is well done.
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Very good assessment of Reva. They really missed a chance to create an interesting character of depth. Maybe they can repair what they have done in future stories.
Finn and Rose were perfect examples of characters who were created with diversity in mind but ended up having laughably bad writing for their characters that led them to being almost written out of the story in the mess of Rise of Skywalker. Disney just wants the Twitter sheep on their side but don’t actually care about crating compelling stories and a characters that will stand the test of time. They made Finn a laughing stock when his story could have been one of compassion leading him to become a badass Jedi too. They don’t care about minorities they just want to diversify the people who give them money.
can't believe even lightsabers are useless now because of disney's plot armor.
Well said, and I agree. I don’t blame Moses Ingram at all for the outcome of the character of Reva in the series. She was cast in the role, and she was simply doing her job. I think did the best she could with the script, the scenes, and the screen time given her. But the one point that nails it, is your observation that this series was at minimum 2 episodes too short, for the story they wanted to tell. Yes, the last two episodes were mostly really good (they saved the series for me, actually). But I think the pacing was off in many places. There was insufficient character development not only for Reva, but for Tala, Haja, and Rokan as well. Given the overall brevity of the episodes, too much time was wasted chasing and rescuing Leia (twice!) and on filler and overlong scenes that didn’t move the story forward. There were many good things about the show too, of course. But really in the end, they should have been budgeted either 6 full-hour running times (not counting recaps, titles, and end credits)…or an 8-episode season like The Mandalorian. Corners were clearly cut on this series. For every great moment, there are others where you can see that economies were made, as though Disney was still trying to make up for the fortune they lost on SOLO. But this was NOT the show to do that with…
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All these points are ...on point lol However, my main issue with the character is I hated the way she was taunting people like a 3rd grader, especially early on when she's talking to Obi while searching for him before he and leia get on the ship.
I was hoping she would be in the first few episodes reva was in then she was going to be in andor and she would become a rebel and we would then get a spin-off show in 2024 - 2025 but then I thought they were going to kill her off with Vader and they didn’t then I thought the grand inquisitor was going to kill her but they let her go then I thought kenobi was going to kill her but he didnt even though she just tried to kill Luke and she had killed more than one Jedi probably but I hope she comes back so they can work on her character and make her better.
I think you make some good points. I do take issue with her acting though.
Now to be fair. I don't think that means she is a bad actor. I mean we have all seen what a weak script and lackluster or bad direction can do to a good actor. The trainwreck that is almost every scene between padme and anakin in the prequels is a good example of that. I challenge anyone that thinks hayden is a bad actor to watch shattered glass and still hold that opinion.
Now with that being said. Reva is set up to be this menacing and sinister character, in other words she is supposed to be scary. At least as scary as we can expect anything in star wars to be.
Instead I found reva to be very awkward. Most of her attempts to come of scary is just her shouting like a child throwing a temper tantrum, and the poses she keeps doing to look "iconic" look out of place and forced. This is further damaged by the lack of continuinity in her mannerisms. I. E. After kenobi escape with leia from the imperial base, she has this "creature" like hunch as she speaks to the other inquisitor, then in the next shot we see her from behind alone, in a wide footed "heroic" stance.
This contradiction in her body movements is something that persists in most of her scenes. Constantly shifting from this very confident wide shouldered stride to hunching over and looking to the side, seemingly to look more sinister.
I think a general rule about star wars villains seem to follow, that was left out for reva is. They are either portrayed by a character actor or they are visually menacing.
I assume they did not want to make reva "ugly" to sell her as a villain because they wanted this redemption arc. But I would argue that her redemption fails because doesn't really come of as a villain as well. Or rather only comicly so, with the writing making her out to do "evil" Just because she is the most evil of evil most of the time. Or as you mentioned. Adjusting the characters around her to make her come of as particulary bad. We need to see the strugle for redemption to pay off, but we also first need to believe this character to be unredeemable for the pay off to really make an impact.
I liked moses fine in the Queen's gambit and I am sure she can act challenging stuff. But I feel like this character needed to be more theatrically crafted to be appealing. Instead it felt like the writer, director and Moses thought that to mean overacting. Who is really to blame is hard to say, as we don't know how this was discussed behind the camera. I just won't personally give her a pass on the acting either.
I mean I know not everyone can be Ewan, Who generally plays himself and still manages to come out of bad writing looking good most of the time.
When you realize this show could have been averted it Anakin had just chopped Reva’s head off during Order 66…
My feelings how this show turned out match the rants of Overlord DVD, Nerdtrotic and Disparu. But I love your objective take on this Josh.
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Here is what I got from her storyline.
1. As a youngling who survived Anakins slaughter, it was not a stretch for her to deduce the identity of Vader. Fighting style for example. Additionally if she knew Obi Wan was responsible for Vader then she would especially hate him. But also, she would hat the other jedi who failed to save the young lines.
3. Her goal is to kill Vader and to do that, she has to prove she is a better choice than the current Grand Inquisitor. That's how she will get close to Vader, by removing him, or delivering Obi-wan.
4.Her willingness to delay Vader for Obi Wan showed she was not truly lost to the Dark side, and was more acting like a Sith would be.
5. When she failed to kill Vader and went after Luke, she realized in that moment that by killing Luke she would only become the monster she sought to destroy.
Returning him as she did, will allow the character to return and have a redemption storyline play out.
I give her a 7/10 her arc was alright. the show had some clunky writing in a few areas.
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Have you ever heard of Literature Devil, in this video I have heard you discuss Reva in a similar manner as LD does?
I think you make a good point, the biggest problem with this in other Disney Star Wars TV shows is the writing. If you look at IMPD, the writers for the Obi-Wan show have a little experience, and come from anime doing Lego Star Wars movies and Lego video games. Probably not the person I want involved in this project. That tells me it was probably a budgetary thing, and they want some of this going to do what they want their price.
I just find it so infuriating seeing the agonizing amount of spotlight her character gets in the series. Like anytime the plot moves forward, it's always because of her, any of the major fight scenes of the series, it has her in it, the other Inquisitors are just there while she gets some sad Anime backstory and a full on shoehorned character arc like ughhh. I wished the show would've been about Obi Wan being discovered by the Inquisitors and him fighting them one by one until the finale where he has his grand showdown with Vader, but NOPE. We get a cheap copy of the Second Sister from Jedi Fallen Order which let's be real here, was way better written and more badass. Hell, fuck it, even the Ninth Sister was more tragic and compelling than Reva, and she had no flashbacks or any cheap bs to make the viewers go "OMG! I FEEL SO BAD FOR HER DX". I don't have anything against Moses Ingram, people who send her racist messages and all that stuff are just wrong, but that doesn't make her character immune to any valid criticism.
Agreed. It’s the same thing as what Disney did to John Boyega. They’ll use identities for marketing but won’t give the time to write a decent character.
First glance at the new Disney canon was him as a stormtrooper without a helmet.
First Black actor to be in a leading role with a lightsaber. Plastered all over the first movie poster.
But then all writing goes out the window and John turns into comedic relief for the last 3 episodes of the trilogy.
Treatment so bad that the actor himself refuses to be a part of Star Wars anymore.
But the fans who point out things like “Chewie should have gotten the falcon over Rei” are the problem because we point out inconsistencies with fictional characters.
As you stated, there was a crucial problem with the entire Reva character because her supposed grave "threat" against all the main characters (Obi, Vader, Luke, Leia) was non-existent or it'd break canon otherwise. So her whole character's function/existence was fundamentally flawed from the beginning.
Also, from the very first moment I first saw an image of her as the only human next to the other inquisitors, her redemption couldn't have been more telegraphed and predictable. She might as well as had "redemptive character" tattooed on her forehead or on a big neon sign around her neck.
Additionally, the Reva actress was just horribly miscast as I found every scene she was in, especially whenever she tries to put on that tough guy act, entirely unconvincing. It was like watching a 5-year-old puff out his or her chest, purse their lips, and talk in a lower voice to try and sound intimidating. It's more comical, embarrassing, amusing, cringe, etc. than effective and fear-inducing.
I think the GOT actress who played Tala would've been a much better Reva because she may have had a snake-like killer seductress delivery like Asajj Ventress. Or closer to her role in GOT. But just about any delivery by her would've been a vast improvement over the Reva we had.
Speaking of which Reva should've looked like Assajj Ventress, Aura Sing, or a female Darth Maul, etc. as being the lone human Inquisitor couldn't have been a bigger tell for her hugely telegraphed obvious af redemption from the very moment she first appeared on screen.
Someone who looked like Assajj Ventres, Darth Maul, or anyone with a truly evil, terrifying appearance turning good would be way less predictable, more effective, and much more impactful than someone who already looks and sounds like they're good turning good as we had with Reva. Her turn to the light or some other turn away from evil could be seen coming a mile away. So when it inevitably happened the surprise and emotional impact were almost entirely absent.
And I would've said the same if Cal Kestis, who is a white male, was the only human Inquisitor.
So it had zero to do with her supposedly being "woke", a woman, Black. Or whatever else these right-wing Fandom Menace Fandumb Degenerates Trump worshipping MAGA cultists like to push with their white replacement rhetoric. As usual, it actually only has to do with the quality of the material in reality. And Reva was just a poorly: conceived, written, performed, and badly cast character from the start.
Again, Josh, you nailed it! Write a good character and it won’t matter what color they are or what sex they are. Disney SW is so poor at the thing they are trying to do that they end up damaging their own cause. This ends up having the opposite effect of what they want. It’s sad and so simple to fix.
Completely agree. The idea behind the character could've been a great story but instead they just threw her in to meet a quota. It honestly doesn't matter what her race was, anyone could've played her part but with how bad the writing is it still would've been bad. I don't think it was the acting it was 100% the writing that ruined the character. They should've just done an inquisitor show with her as the lead before Kenobi happened.
I am an African from Cameroon. Everyone in the world can relate to a good story and good developed relatable characters no matter the race. I think that Disney writers need to do research on the source material and given quality time to write their movies or series. As an African their famous Hollywood characters which are universally love no matter race because these characters break social barriers. It's worst to watch black character without soul no true development. Everyone loved Black Panther no matter the race or Cyborg. Same light people love Superman or Batman. People love Shangchi. Race of the character is not a problem what is a problem is if the presence of the race of the character felt force. Even I as a black man there are movies I ask myself why did they put this black character was it just to check box?
She survived being stabbed through the chest with a damn lightsaber. Oh yeah, twice and once as a damn child! Enough said!
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I think it would have worked if Tusken Raiders had taken Reva in the dark as she was chasing Luke in the Desert, they could have come out of the shadows and ambushed her. She was already wounded and weakened. She would have gone down fighting but a group of Vicious Tuskens at night could have taken her out. This would have paid off Luke's line in A NEW HOPE when he tells C-3PO "We have to wait till morning (to search for R2) It's too dangerous with all the Sand People around."
It's so funny to me that some prople think her lightsaber campain doesn't say anything about how mich people like her.
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I think they should’ve given reva her own show. Her character was interesting but the writers gave her character too big of a role in the show. They should’ve used the inquisitor in rebels and gave reva an opportunity to have her own show because if they do it now I don’t think the show won’t do that well
Problem is no one would watch it.
@@youtubeistryingtocensorme true
Great video! I agree completely.
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