SMC vs Zeee vs Lishen batteries heavy load test and internal resistance measurements
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- čas přidán 3. 04. 2023
- We do some serious testing (including 500 amp load tests!), measurements and comparisons between SMC's SRD (Speed Run Drag Series) 4s drag race pack, Zeee's 9,000mah 4s pack and a pack I put together using 6 Lishen LTO 18ah cells. Please consider helping me pay for this stuff through CZcams's Super Thanks (Heart with the "$" symbol above) or Patreon: / alexltdlx
AC Internal Resistance Tester: amzn.to/3nN8Q97
SMC Internal Resistance Tester: www.smc-racing.com/index.php?...
SMC SRD Pack: www.smc-racing.com/index.php?... - Věda a technologie
Ok I've been waiting for this.... thanks again
I own 6 SRD Packs, they are amazing batteries!
Very cool testing! Brave too hahaha.
Thank you!
Great video Alex! Excellent data! 👍🏼👍🏼
Thanks, Jeffrey.
Great video as always.
I really dig the calculator. Awesome.
Awesome, thank you!
Great video, really curious to see what your solution for a real c rating will be, looking forward to that video.
Yeah, I really need to get on that. Maybe a good video to make while I'm setting up and finishing out the new place.
When you look at the prices, internal resistance, and C-rating, it all aligns so no real surprises.
I think if this test was revisited, I'd want to see an equal weight and/or dollar amount compared. As in 4x Zeee's vs 2x SMC's vs 1x LTO...or other multiples since I can't really find LTO pricing.
Pretty much. The LTO cells are expensive - I bought 60 of them for about $1,500. They're hard to find in stock, too. I use 24-26 in my "sledgehammer" electric turbo setup, depending on where I want the SOC - if you haven't seen it, here it is making about 722 hp at the drag strip: czcams.com/video/nlTVHkfSQXM/video.html But, you're correct - not everyone needs max power delivery. It's important to me for my electric turbo projects; but for others, size, weight or price may be more important. Which is why I included that data.
Very interesting video! would love to see a 2nd run on a much lower AMP hit, lets say like what a 6s Kraton or Traxxas Maxx would pull on full punch. Just to see real life example of the difference in power provided on the SMC versus cheaper Zee's/HRB etc.
That's a good point. I'd imagine the relationship would be pretty linear. So if there was a 4 volt voltage drop at 500 amps, you'd have a 2 volt voltage drop at 250 amps. BTW, the starting voltage doesn't matter - the voltage drop is purely current dependent.
The heavier LTO cells weight can be an advantage in some drag racing electric blower applications and back-to-back runs without charging, invaluable.
The more videos I see, the more I'm leaning towards the Lishens, especially given the cost and that I want to re-gen on my application. The SMC packs, from reading, seem to be formulated for amp rating over capacity, but pricing out what I'd need is a steep battery bill lol
As always, thanks for sharing your research.
Thanks. Yeah, I'm searching for the smallest/lightest packs, but the advantages of LTO are hard to ignore.
Fascinating. I’d like to see a technical deep dive on exactly how bogus C ratings are.
I'm going to try to do a video on exactly that. Thanks!
Definitely need to build some LTO packs because they're just awesome. I'm curious if form factor matters as much (other than Price/shape) I'd love some of the rectangular type Toshiba cells.
to answer your last question: fire
Lol. Most likely, the higher voltage pack would try to charge the lower voltage pack, but there'd be no current limiting aside from internal resistances. So you'd probably see about 250 amps instantly; or even more for a few milliseconds - big sparks.
@@AlexLTDLX Well, it could be done if the packs were managed by the same BMS at the cell level with an identical layout, but given that they are different chemistries, i really wouldn't do it lol.
Sometimes, e-bike people will run packs in parallel, but they are identical packs.
Even 0.1v of difference would make for huge currents.
It becomes a portable welder 😂
Nice vid! All hail the algorithm
Thanks.
💜💜💜💜💜💜💜💜💜
Amazing video! Thank you. All that after 2 days at full charge! Wow. Pore batteries lol. Never thought the difference would be so drastic. Smc is definitely going to be my next set of batteries!
Im curios, what if u ran a pair of the zeee batteries in parallel through the same test. Maybe the wouldn't completely 💩 themselves?
Thanks. Actually, that's kind what I've been doing when I was using them in the first electric turbo setup. They perform how you'd expect - with about half the voltage drop. Here's the video of that drag test at a private airstrip: czcams.com/video/AOL3Qyczt3Y/video.html
@@AlexLTDLX very kool. Thank you 😯
I have smc and onyx (uk high power) packs. You need to heat the packs up to about 100 degree for the full potential and discharge without voltage drop. Thats how we pull massive amps
That's how Tesla does its "Ludicrous mode" too. In fact, in the drag and dyno testing of the electric turbo, the second pull always made more power than the first; at least until we switched to the LTO cells.
@@AlexLTDLX 👍👍. LTO are way more stable. If you run heated lipo batteries in parallel,should beat the LTO cells but very volatile
AC IR shouldn't be used to measure voltage drop. It's not DC IR.
The reason why the Wayne Giles meter wasn't "accurate" is because it doesn't test at 500A. Most DC IR testing is done at currents well under 100A. Usually 1A to 20A
I don't think those little EC5? connectors are going to be up to the 1000 amps. Especially with how hot it got.
Maybe you could measure voltage drop before/after the connector? Maybe using the balance lead.
Well, the packs came with EC5 connectors and that's how they'd be used. But I have measured the resistance of most RC connectors in another video: czcams.com/video/-jLcgRxIfG8/video.html The connectors, along with the short length of cable, are responsible for about 0.25 volt drop.
Let's talk c ratings, my 8s kraton of 150c vs 50c ARE EPICALLY Noticable
I do want to do a video on that - since c ratings seem to mean different things to different manufacturers.
@@AlexLTDLX do China lipo comparisons to with spektrum and other easily accessible batt. The market offers. I'd be willing to donate some for this video if needed and I'm sure many other followers would be willing for such a video. Might also consider affiliate links on a video like this and your attention to detail🤗
I would love to do that - and I probably will. I'm in the process of moving (it's a bit of a long process, since it's over 1,600 miles and I'm building the new place), but I should be situated sometime this summer. Then I'll set up a PO box and I'll be happy to test whatever people send me. Thanks for watching, commenting and the kind offer! Here's a video on the new place, in case you haven't seen it: czcams.com/video/8Jvj5RCvxSM/video.html
I’m investigating this awesome new world of electric driven superchargers. Current plan. Standard crank-driven Procharger F1A for my 21 Camaro 1LE. So a compressor easily capable to support 1,000 flywheel hp on a 6.2L engine.
If going electric- is there another affordable compressor that you are aware of that supports my desired HP or would I be looking at two of the ones you have ?
Second question:
What battery needed to last at least 5, 9second pulls at full boost?
You would probably need to use 2 units given the current limits of available motors and ESCs to do that. The Speedmaster P2 supercharger is the way to go - dollar for dollar, it's tough to beat.
Haha, that last part was great.
I get nervous that things are going to blow up/catch fire. When they don't, the post-stress seems to come out in goofy ways...
@@AlexLTDLX I've twice had the unfortunate experience of plugging two LiFe 4s packs positive to negative before in my hands. You get that split decision to try and rip the leads apart as they are rapidly heating up. If you're lucky, the battery tabs evaporate.
Wow. I'm glad I didn't try it - I'm glad things didn't get ugly for you.
What do I need you to do to compare Onyx 4s 8000mah lipos to thr SMC SRD? Just let me know this is long awaited in the RC community
How can I get my hands on that Onyx pack to test?
Looked like it was in parallel not series but I would not as there’s a voltage difference….
yeah, interesting, i wouldnt have dared to do that test inhouse with lipos.. i hope that was a burn-blanket atleast you had it standing on
It's a moving blanket. And it's ok. I'm moving... lol.
Have you ever tested headway?
I haven't. But some others have with less than great results.
When you get thos setup in a package to sell, I call first to buy. LOL
Most likely, I'll start small - getting someone local with a good fit car-wise. And then eventually perhaps I'll sell "modules" - compressors, ESCs, packs, etc. But honestly, I'm just having fun doing this.
Mabye some 26ah Lishen LTO at 33$ individual could be a replacement for OEM Lead acid Automotive battery?
The LTOs aren't a great option for an automotive battery. LiFePo4 is the chemistry your want - 4 cells are perfect. I built a 100 ah LiFePo4 batter for the LTD (the race car - this one: czcams.com/video/nlTVHkfSQXM/video.html) and it's been working great since I put it in - way, way better than the lead acid battery it replaced. Here's a video on it: czcams.com/video/cS1aQJOnqTQ/video.html
The Zee battery didn't drop all that voltage, a large amount was dropped across the ec5 connector... hence the massive heat put into the cables. You should have measured on the battery-side of the connectors not the load tester side.
Voltage is Voltage doesn't matter how much restriction in circuit voltage will still be present. Not to mention a restriction will add resistance in return less current draw in return less voltage drop. In return the SMC lipos handle more of a load then the zee lipos.
@@KiloWattRC That's not correct. Voltage dropped over the connector.
@@timjs1018 the connector is not a load. Look into basic electrical. The Zee lipos couldn't handle the amp load and that's why voltage dropped
@DISHDOCTOR Everything with resistance is a "load" and voltage drops proportionally across it. This power is lost as waste heat, hence the very high connector temperatures he had after the test. I suggest you take your own advice and read up on basic electrical.
@@timjs1018 what u think the ec5 measures out 10 ohms? You won't loose voltage across the connector. Connector did just fine connecting path to ground, zee lipo had a hard time supplying 500amps for 5 seconds vs the higher true C rate SMC SRD pack
Some simple health advice when working with batteries that support big current outputs: DON'T USE METAL RULERS. I know people who have suffered severe burns or worse from "whoopsies" that vapourised the ruler.
500A through 8-10 guage wire.... lol
Looking at the shakes in your hands, there was a sense of the energy levels you were playing with.
Actually, yeah, the shakes do get worse when I'm excited about something; but it's a medical condition known as "essential tremor." It runs in my family; I have a cousin with MS. Believe me, I wish that wasn't the case and it is something I'm a bit self-conscious of. And I did notice in editing how close the ruler looked to the pack in the video, but it wasn't in reality. I actually have a plastic ruler I'd usually use, but it's be hard to read on video. If it makes you feel better, the backside of the metal ruler is covered with cork. And I have dropped a busbar into a Lishen LTO pack before - I think there's a shot of it in the building of the "ultimate 12s pack" video.
@@AlexLTDLX Hey mate, you obviously have found a way to live and deal with what you have been dealt, keep it up.
Yeah, my first trade was electrical engineering building switchboards and not your little domestic turds either, our boards started at several hundred amps (Aus, 240V, no 120v crap here) out to kiloamps in HV so a healthy respect for what you where using around potential energy was always on my mind. One of our reps put a stainless ruler to close to a set of enrgised 3-phase bus-bars and copped 70% coverage, 3 degree burns. Hard lesson.
omg 500amps for 5seconds? lol you are really pushing them little packs and killing them at the same time. But thanks for doing the test to lay to rest the nonsense about triple digit C rating and how much bragging amps these little packs are supposed to be able to support and be able to do it again and again rather than a one off kamikaze style burst.
For short bursts they'll hold up ok for a little while at least - but there is quite a bit of variation between Lipo brands - and these bursts are where the major differences will show up. For my purposes I need to know what these will do at very high amp draw. I have yet to find anything that can match the Lishens, though.