How Does Barrel Length Change Velocity
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- čas přidán 26. 06. 2022
- Paul tests how barrel length changes velocity with his Dan Wesson Pistol Pack.
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I'm more than a little jealous of that pistol pack. Still, it is further proof that Paul does indeed "like the classics".
I thought the same thing, I'm definitely an autoloader guy but I do want a revolver some time but now I really want THAT set
A friend of mine had one with a Satin/Nickel? finish.
The term maybe wrong I do not know what they call it.
That was one of the nicest looking pistols I have ever seen.
The kit in the case was impressive.
I never got to go to the range with him to shoot it.
If the best slingers back than could use modern weaponry... they would be gods... now put a modern deltaforce guy or navy seal into the 1700s or 1800s I wonder
@@CadmusCurtis don’t do it, going down that rabbit hole will put you in debt quick.
Until last year, I never own a revolver either. Was the same always wanted to pick one up. Now I own 5. 38spl, 2 357 magnums., 45lc and 22lr/22mag.
But really you should pick one up, they have their uses. Just be warned, it won’t stop at one. Lol
@@o1mtbiker Don't have a .41 magnum or .44 magnum?
This isn’t a gun channel, it’s a science channel featuring guns
Perfect timing - just came in from evening chores.
You, my CZcams community friend, are much more industrious than myself. This typically, perhaps perfectly, excellent presentation, is just in time for evening repeat movie watching of the mist.
@@viva0las0vegas 🤣
Paul never fails! You get education and entertainment!
@@viva0las0vegas Something in the mist took John Lee!
Unless I’m working I automatically stop whatever I’m doing. And turn on the video as soon as I see that PAUL HARRELL notification. Mr. Harrell is the man!!!
I’m a new shooter and finding your channel has been one of the best sources for finding a1 content. I’ve learned so much in very little time. Very much appreciate you!
All his videos are well worth the time. And welcome to the shooting sports!
Paul gives great information. You can learn a lot from his videos.
Paul is a Masterful Teacher and I consider his videos as required viewing for shooters new or seasoned. He "Walks The Walk" and so when he "Talks The Talk" and demonstrates, we listen and take notes. And also enjoy his life experience storytelling.
New Jersey CCW means three "reputable" people vouch that you have not lied on the form which is only accepted in triplicate and notarized then off to a third party to get fingerprinted and get four passport photos as the police don't do this anymore then you must pay 150 dollars for the first gun and 50 dollars for a second gun which would be the only guns that the license would cover. Then after all that you must take a certified training course of classes (at your expense) and a 50 round target test of which 10 misses means you failed start over .The same process needs to be repeated every two years. Have a medical marijuana card? Then don't bother applying. Easy Peasy we are free!
The most educational firearms videos on CZcams.
New Jersey CCW means three "reputable" people vouch that you have not lied on the form which is only accepted in triplicate and notarized then off to a third party to get fingerprinted and get four passport photos as the police don't do this anymore then you must pay 150 dollars for the first gun and 50 dollars for a second gun which would be the only guns that the license would cover. Then after all that you must take a certified training course of classes (at your expense) and a 50 round target test of which 10 misses means you failed start over .The same process needs to be repeated every two years. Have a medical marijuana card? Then don't bother applying. Easy Peasy we are free!
One of those differences in velocity might be due to the ammo companies selecting a powder that has its best burn in a 4 inch barrel.
Agree, short barrel ammo....
Different powders have different burn time.
Given that almost all the powder burns before the bullet is an inch down the barrel. The optimum powder for any given cartridge will usually be the slowest burning powder you can use which fills up the available case volume the most, and which keeps you right at max pressure. As long as you aren't going to ridiculously short barrel lengths the powder that gives you the best speed at a longer barrel length will also be the fastest at a shorter barrel length. There are reasons you might choose a different powder for a shorter barrel though. Things like fireballs or pressure at the muzzle would be good reasons to pick a different powder for a shorter barrel, but not for getting the most velocity.
@@mitchelwendland5195 I gave you a thumbs up on your comment because this makes perfect logical sense to me. However, the Lyman book lists lil gun for .357 to have a high velocity with a relatively low pressure as compared to H110 or 2400? Is this powder an outlier? I chose to use it based on that pressure data to load for a carbine to maximize velocity while limiting pressure. I'm new to reloading so I am genuinely asking to educate myself.
Yes. Did that with pistol and rifle. Same bullet weight in two .38's different barrel lengths, different powders preformed better. Same with the 30-06, in this case it was precision we were working on.
That Dan Wesson is a sweet gun. I have one with a 6in and i love it. Also I called "The Dan wesson pistol pack" right before he said it. I was very proud of myself XD
I think it's fascinating to hear the subtle changes in sound with the different barrel lengths during the shooting portion.
Yes, you can hear that from 4" up the rounds become supersonic which is something I've never experienced the difference of before. Something to think about if noise is a concern.
You can also tell by the sound whether a round is faster or slower than the previously shot from the same barrel... Faster is slightly louder and higher pitch than the slower round.
Hey Paul thanks for giving Lincoln City Sporting Goods a plug in the video. I’m sure Bruce will appreciate it. I’ve seen you in there a few times and even sold you a couple guns when I worked there. Your always a class act and I appreciate your willingness to educate. Keep up the solid work!
Oh look!!! Paul is giving away prizes now!!! LOL
Man I'm sick of these spam bot replies.
Where is this place?
@@Stroke2Handed all one can do is report them. But it’s pretty ridiculous that CZcams can’t get rid of the spammers and scammers.
@@bracoop2 Yep. I've been selected to win something on just about every channel I'm subbed to.
@@deepb249 Lincoln City Oregon
It boils down to the age-old and highly contested saying; "It's not the size, it's how you use it."
I didn't get that, I learned bigger is indeed better.
Nothing like watching Paul Harrell while maintaining your guns
I watch as I reload quite often . Very relaxing
@@kevmoful That reminds me, I need to get out to the shed and cast some bullets so I can reload.
@@Quadrenaro I got a shed 2 months ago ac and everything. It’s bliss, never got into casting but I certainly see it as a valuable skill to learn . I even bought a 45/70 to motivate myself to learn.
@@kevmoful Dude it's amazing. I cast 158gr 357/38spl projectiles and 95gr 380/9mm projectiles and it's brought cost per round down significantly.
@@Quadrenaro what’s a good source of lead? I’ve heard wheel weights but Is that suitable?
I’ve often wondered how to do a barrel length velocity test without having 4 identical models and the Dan Wesson was the perfect test platform.
Get a long barrel and cut it down.
Yes, great pick. My first thought was the same model of a S&W 357 Magnum in snub nose, 4", 6", and 8". Then test 38 Special and 357 Magnum. Maybe a little variance due to four guns, but not enough to matter.
If any of you guys have revolvers like that and a chronograph, let us know what you get!
One bolt-action single-shot, one hacksaw, one file to tidy up the cuts, ...
@@Sableagle Can not love that post any more!!!!
@@Sableagle
A few have done that, one actually used a lathe to chop barrel back at 1 in / 2.2 cm at a time, face off barrel then 10 shot group.
Thank you for leaving the chronograph sessions in. I not only enjoy watching it, but following along with your math on my own.
It was the entire video!
@@bigrocc3925 that's the best part lol
I prefer to skip them, but leaving them in for the sake of completeness and letting us impatient types skip if we choose is the right choice.
This is why I conceal carry an 8" .357 magnum as my EDC.
I was thinking “Pistol Pac” almost as soon as you started talking. And you found one! 👍This is a great comparison. Too bad Ballistics By The Inch isn’t still collecting data; they could certainly use this. Thanks!
Yup, I am a fan of the 4" barrel. That Dan Wesson set is beautiful.
*SCAM* ALERT! ^^^ THAT is a *SCAMMER.* Please be aware that that is a *SCAMMER* and do not fall for the *SCAMMER.*
I see Papa Paul drop a video. I click.
And what is the only logical answer to this predicament?:
The Dan Wesson Pistol Pack.
Of course!
I still remember when these revolvers came on the market, they seemed like the coolest thing since the invention of coca cola
And now we all regret not buying one!
@@johnknapp665 Of course!
Sad to say, I know exactly what Mr. Harrell was referring to when he mentioned trying to find the right part of the trifocals to aim through. As my octogenarian father says, “getting old is not fun, but it sure beats the alternative... “
I very much enjoy my Dan Wesson 357. Very cool seeing one in this presentation.
Thinking of Jack Nicholson as the Joker in the very early Michael Keaton Batman... That 21" barrel, tho 😂
That was a 22 colt though.
You can get basically the same idea from heritage for about 250 bucks.
Happy pre July 1st Dev, I hope you picked up plenty of extra standard capacity magazines.
I wondered how the telescoping barrel on that gun worked....Lol
@@jamesa.7604 If I told you, Michael Keaton as his roles in Multiplicity + Batman would kick down my door. There would be four or five of Batmen? I could probably take out the copy of a copy with some ice-cream, the others I'd have to hide in a cardboard box, and stem shot one by one, not an easy task. I know they would have called Val Kilmer for back up, and as everyone knows, nipples on a batsuit is my kryptonite...
The most impressive part of this video is avoiding all the jokes, aside a small one.
Came to learn about muzzle velocity in relation to barrel length, left Googleing around to buy a Dan Wesson Pistol Pack...
Next week we'll compare the accuracy of the different barrels.
The one point I would like to make is that the point of Complete Combustion is not necessarily the velocity vs barrel length inflection point - it is often after, and very rarely before then, instead being the point at which the force on the bullet resulting from pressure differential inside the barrel drops below the force of frictional drag on the bullet.
As propellant burns, it indeed builds pressure, and the bullet begins moving before that propellant has fully burned (ideally - see various overpressure failure scenarios). Pressure will only increase for as long as the propellant burns, but that pressure increase will only continue as long as the increase in gas volume outpaces the dynamic increase in volume behind the bullet. Most powders burn fast enough with enough volatility (the amount of gas created per mass of powder) that this isn't an issue, but it can happen on rare occasion. Even when combustion completes (in situations where the bullet hasn't yet cleared the barrel), there will very likely still be a large pressure differential acting on the bullet in the barrel.
As the bullet accelerates, the frictional drag on that bullet will increase, being proportional with the bullet's velocity. As long as this frictional drag is less than the force created by the pressure differential, the bullet will continue to accelerate. As the bullet travels down the barrel, the internal volume behind it will continue to increase, which will lower the pressure differential and resulting force, lowering the bullet's acceleration until a point where the frictional drag overcomes the force of the pressure differential, slowing the bullet back down. Air pressure will also build up in front of the bullet as it is being accelerated, as the air in the barrel has to go somewhere, and this will contribute in various measures to reducing the efficacy of progressively-longer barrels.
In short, in the overwhelming majority of cases, a longer barrel will yield higher velocities, but it will do so with diminishing returns (requiring a linear increase in mass and length for a diminishing increase in velocity), and even then only to a point where an even longer barrel will actually hurt your velocities.
A 16-inch barrel will do quite well with standard-pressure 9mm, for instance, getting pretty much everything it can out of it. Velocities just barely start to fall off from their peak at around 18 inches, so something like a 24-inch barrel would have quite poor performance. Most sources I can find claim that 9mm pistol powders undergo complete burn inside 6 inches of barrel length, but there is still a marginal increase (+10%-15% depending on load) in muzzle velocity up to 16-17 inches of barrel length.
Nice job in covering it. I know that I used to understand it the way Paul explained it but when looking into the advances in cartridges I learned some new things.
I just wanted to add that at least in a rifle velocity is fuel limited. Velocity comes from the total area under the curve and you want to get to full pressure as soon as possible but at the same time burn as much fuel or probably produce as much volume of gas as possible and within reason develop as much heat as possible. The pressure is important for the fuel to burn correctly so if it drops off to much the powder probably won't even burn before it exits giving powder burns. The design of the sharp shoulders on high performance rifle cartridges are trying to make this happen in the case by making it harder for the powder to exit and give it a swirl burn. Why do slower powders give higher velocity? Most of the room in a case is already taken up. By slowing down the burn a little bit there is a bit more volume. For a round number if the powder takes 20%longer to burn then maybe you can free up 20% more unfilled volume since any room gained is free room and not filled with powder. That means that you can pack in 20% more powder or a more energy dense powder. There is both the total volume of the gas and how hot you can keep it. I think it is True Velocity that is getting more energy than the.308 with less powder do to lower heat losses. The fact that we can switch to a larger case and get more velocity is a give away that even on a short barreled gun we don't have enough gas to even keep full pressure out of a snub nose. I am sure that since pistols run at lower pressure there is a major difference in all the losses and energy density of the powders. Also unlike rifles they tend to run at far lower pressure and those pressures are all over the place. They also tend to be larger bores and that helps to squeeze more power out at minimum recoil. The weight of the powder and the rocket effects are both part. Unlike rifles case size isn't a great way to gauge energy since often you are not trying to increase energy all that much.
Or you can just say it's complicated 😅
One of the best revolvers ever made. Congrats on finding a complete one in fantastic condition.
You got me,Paul. I thought for sure there was going to be a hacksaw in the case. Well played. Keep up the great content, and “Keep up the Fire.”
KUTF, Hooah!
I love Paul's pedantic obsession with good testing. Most CZcamsrs would have gotten different models of revolvers at different barrel lengths and called it a day.
Been watching Paul's videos for some time, and one thing still amazes me: I cannot tell, how long they are, alway feels like couple of minutes. Good job, Sir, love Your channel. Greetings from Poland.
*SCAM* ALERT! ^^^ THAT is a *SCAMMER.* Please be aware that that is a *SCAMMER* and do not fall for the *SCAMMER.*
@@Sableagle Was never going to fall for it, but thanks 👍
What I've learned from this is what I always suspected- Fiocchi is light on powder, heavy on the box's suggested FPS number.
It would be nice if ammo manufacturers would show the barrel length used to reach the stated velocity. Or is there a standard length?
Paul has a video from a few, maybe six, months back where Fiocchi absolutely embarrasses themselves in terms of FPS. I wish I could cite it specifically, but it's constantly on my mind when buying now. EDIT: Found it: czcams.com/video/QpG2O2X8wxI/video.html
It doesn't matter! 2 inches is large enough!!!!! *starts crying*
Hi Paul
A resource that may be relevant to this topic is a website called "ballistics by the inch". They have tested multiple calibers by cutting down a long barrel 1 inch at a time. They also have a section on the effect of various cylinder gap distances. Very interesting stuff.
Not trying to take anything away from your presentation, just thought it may be of interest.
SCAM ALERT! ^^^ THAT is a SCAMMER. Please be aware that that is a SCAMMER and do not fall for the SCAMMER.
@@Sableagle
There seem to be a lot of those scams going around at the moment. I've been reporting all that I see, but I don't know if YT actually does anything.
It's informative shows like this and others, made by highly experienced professors that cut out that learning curve for guys like me who go to the range or hunting on rare occasions, who spend waaaay more time with our guitars. So we get the benefit of all that knowledge without all that experience that screwing up brings. Thank you.
*SCAM* ALERT! ^^^ THAT is a *SCAMMER.* Please be aware that that is a *SCAMMER* and do not fall for the *SCAMMER.*
4” barrel is optimal balance for carrying and velocity for 38 spl/.357. That’s why most revolvers are offered in ~4”.
The adage is for every additional 1” of barrel, there is a gain of 100 FPS. But as Paul stated, it depends on gun and ammo and there are diminishing returns.
I think it was Shooting Times that used a Ruger Blackhawk and cut the barrel down 1” at a time and measured the velocity. Article was probably 25 years ago.
Yeah, I remember that article. Have read ST since I was a kid.
Mainstream ammunition brands are going to run pretty under-utilized powder capacity in the .357mag. If you want to see more dramatic velocity increases with barrel lengths, go with the hot stuff. Buffalo Bore, Underwood, Grizzly, Doubletap, Corbon, Steinel, and some others. Buffalo Bore will run 158 gr bullets at 2,153 fps from a 18.5" carbine, and 2,298 fps with 125gr in the same carbine.
Your wife rather have 8" stop trying to make up stuff why 4" is better
@@InbredJed82060 diameter or circumference?
@@exothermal.sprocket yeah the big box 357 is pretty weak nowdays. I was one of the last guys on the road that carried a 357m back in the early 90s. Coworker bought a chrono and also loaded at home. I brought my carry ammo which was winchester cheapo white box 125g sjlnhp vs his hot home loads. We run it all thru a half dozen s&w of varrying brl lengths and a bolt action 8" brl pistol.
The winchester factory loads were maybe 25-35fps slower than his hot loads. My 686 6" was sending the winchesters down range around 1500fps. Same round out out of the bolt action was nipping at 2000fps. Nowdays you gotta buy boutique 357 to get those #. I'm still a fan of 357m out of a 4 or 6" barrel.
Paul is the only one where i will watch such an obvious sounding title. He still manages to either teach something or make it interesting. I was happy to see that Dan Wesson pack, i haven't seen one in years.
I was curious why I hadn't seen a new Paul Harrell video in a while... Found out I was magically unsubscribed by CZcams again. Don't be an idiot like me and make sure you're still following Mr Harrell for his great videos!! Keep up the great work Sir!
New Jersey CCW means three "reputable" people vouch that you have not lied on the form which is only accepted in triplicate and notarized then off to a third party to get fingerprinted and get four passport photos as the police don't do this anymore then you must pay 150 dollars for the first gun and 50 dollars for a second gun which would be the only guns that the license would cover. Then after all that you must take a certified training course of classes (at your expense) and a 50 round target test of which 10 misses means you failed start over .The same process needs to be repeated every two years. Have a medical marijuana card? Then don't bother applying. Easy Peasy we are free!
Great topic and nifty test equipment. I liked how you tried to mitigate the other factors by using the same frame but different barrel lengths.
*SCAM* ALERT! ^^^ THAT is a *SCAMMER.* Please be aware that that is a *SCAMMER* and do not fall for the *SCAMMER.*
Good topic. I remember reading Elmer Keith's book where this was discussed.
In fifteen minutes, I went from complete ignorance of the existence of that pistol pack to wanting one.
5:03 is literally the best time stamping I've ever seen!!!
I audibly gasped when you open that revolver case, that was only eclipsed by your professional use of time stamping.
*SCAM* ALERT! ^^^ THAT is a *SCAMMER.* Please be aware that that is a *SCAMMER* and do not fall for the *SCAMMER.*
@@Sableagle They seem to be the only ones that can comment on CZcams anymore.
I tried the trifocals and it was too much for my brain to handle. Every time I would approach an on coming car, it looked like starlight in about 5 different directions.I stuck with the bifocals. Great video as always!
classic.
Since I only see pistols there, I’m going to ask this question ahead of time, as I begin watching. What is the effect of a 16 inch barrel on a 9mm PCC? I ask because I have been told that 147 grain for instance, is ideal for this length. I’m assuming because the barrel speeds this heavier but usually slower round up. I want to confirm the validity of this.
Edit: loved the attention to detail and dedication to giving us the “boring” stuff (that isn’t boring). I see a Paul Harrell video and am watching within minutes.
Check out Lucky Gunner Ch I think he did this test , I thought the same thing . Turns out with most factory ammo , very little change . 125 gr +P type stuff got more gain .
We have a presentation comparing handgun velocities and PCC's
@@PaulHarrell Thanks !!
This looks like the one Paul did in this test with Win Wt Box he got about 130 ft/ sec gain +/- czcams.com/video/S1AHNWgrFnY/video.html
@@danoneill2846 You’re outstanding! I was still looking and got sidetracked by the wife. You went out of your way. Much appreciated!
If there is ever a revolution I’m gonna ask Paul to be our weapon instructor
I am looking forward to Part 2. Well, I look forward to all of Paul's presentations.
Dan Wesson is so choice -- just an amazing interchangeable kit. I love my CZ's! +1 Like
*SCAM* ALERT! ^^^ THAT is a *SCAMMER.* Please be aware that that is a *SCAMMER* and do not fall for the *SCAMMER.*
Paul, I appreciate you for your service, skills and experience in this field of study and practice. I find that you always do a great job collecting and showing your topic data with a variety of weapons, ammunition and testing mediums. Your analysis of each topic, the data and the results are interesting, insightful and often helpful in my own journey with weapons, ammunition and accuracy on the range and in the field. Thank you and keep up the great work on your channel. I wish you great future success in all your personal life goals. Thanks again, sir. Thomas
*SCAM* ALERT! ^^^ THAT is a *SCAMMER.* Please be aware that that is a *SCAMMER* and do not fall for the *SCAMMER.*
The purpose of the Dan Wesson pistol pack is finally uncovered!
Thoroughly engaging and very well presented as usual.
Great job Paul (and team). From the thousands of videos I’ve seen, I’m pretty sure you’re the first to actually mention there are other factors in velocity, and definitely the first to actually overcome that obstacle in demonstrating it.
It did seem to show the heavier bullets did take a little longer to get up to speed, but I was surprised that 8” made little difference. My gf insists that it does.
*SCAM* ALERT! ^^^ THAT is a *SCAMMER.* Please be aware that that is a *SCAMMER* and do not fall for the *SCAMMER.*
I guess there is some scientific evidence as to why I prefer 4" barrels over snub-nosed revolvers. Thank you, Paul and crew, for another excellent presentation under less-than-ideal weather conditions.
For as long as I've been shooting, I've always found that snub-nosed revolvers, and other small form factor handguns, are just incredibly unpleasant to shoot. They're handy, when you need something that's easy to hide, but they're a chore to practice with...
Snub noses are for up close and personal
It was never in doubt and vast evidence has been there for many decades. You just had to look it up or chrono it yourself.
@@williamgregory6684 Guess my 686-6 is worthless at anything UNDER 15 meters then.
There's another thing about the snubbies: the shorter the barrel, the higher the pressure when the bullet leaves it and the louder the pop.
You also get a bigger fireball from more unburned powder mixing with the air and burning at low pressure, incompletely, which makes it shine like the soot in the outer part of a candle flame, so you get a flash to go with that bang.
A short-grip, short-barrel, five-shot, internal-hammer, DAO revolver is a great thing for a girl to have in each jacket pocket as a "Get the hell off me!" device, but imo no fun at the range.
14:23 Man I was not expecting that lol. Excellent demonstration, as usual.
Count on Paul to find something like "the Dan Wesson Pistol Pack". I love it, thanks for being awesome , Paul.
Yay! Another informative PH video!
There is a barrel length for everyone out there. In revolvers, if it is a concealed carry revolver, I top out at 3". If it is a revolver for when I am deer or hog hunting with a bow, or rifle, 4" and longer. This is just me. My most accurate revolver is a toss up. I have a 7.5" Ruger Super Blackhawk 44mag that is a tack driver. I load it with a 200gr FP bullet, 44spl load chronographed at 1050. I carry a 637 S&W 38spl Airweight when going down to the mail box and wearing shorts. They are all different and have a different application. All of them are fun to shoot.
To the mail box?? Are you in possesion of classified information that could destabilize the country or something?
He dated Maxwell...?
@@NRG56 He always likes to be armed, dont need a special reason to be dangerous to f~ck with.
@@NRG56 I live out in the sticks, 60 miles from the Mexican border. Most people have no clue what is happening down here.
@@sisleymichael ... coyotes?
Lovely video as always Paul. Keep making these amazing videos as usual
I never new that pistol pack existed! That thing is awesome, and I now want one.
What a great topic! Velocity has always been a major contributing factor when it comes to the handguns I choose and the specific round round that's best for said platform. Tons of people don't even consider this, and when they do it seems like the choice is based on the fastest round possible. I've always wondered if there was some kind of equation to go by when it came to estimating velocity from one barrel to another. It took me a long time to find the best round for the 4.5" pistol I use for the home. So many resources out there seem to test in barrel lengths of 3-4". I've also heard a steeped chamber can greatly effect velocity too.
I went with the CZ-P09 for this exact reason. What did you go with? Never knew about steeped barrels, I’ll look into it
The 4.75 inch barrel Heritage Rough Rider with .22 magnum gets about the same FPS as a Ruger 10/22. That's why I like the Heritage Rough Rider revolver as a backup to Ruger 10/22
I made an equation but it involves calculus. Specifically u-substitution integration. The eqution itself calculates muzzle energy, which if given the mass of the bullet, makes finding muzzle velocity easy. And you have to input everything using SI units.
@@PuppyPulverizer Walther pdp 4.5"full size. I love it! Apparently due to the steeped chamber it causes a tighter hold on the round further down a bit. I'm pretty sure Gen 5 glock barrels are the same way. Supposed to help with velocity and accuracy.... Whether that's true or not, I haven't the slightest clue but I do love this damn gun.
When you absolutely, positively need every conceivable fact to back up your argument with an anti-gun nut (or anyone else, for that matter), Paul is THE person to turn to.
Quite frankly, IMO, Paul is the Mr. Spock of gun facts. Even his guesses are better then other people's facts.
Another fabulously fact-filled video from a man so thorough, it makes me jealous. Thank you, Paul!
Do not fall for the scammer.
Report the scammer to the FBI.
Thanks, Paul, for your videos, especially the commentary. I appreciate your simple, but informative explanations.
The information Paul provides is priceless. Thank you again, sir, for the great informative content.
It can definitely depend on the propellant. I have found for a longer barrels, slower burning powders like H110 and Blue Dot are able to better capitalize on that extra length. That being said, the French GIGN determined that 5.25 inches was the ideal combination of speed, power, and accuracy, hence the Manurhin M73. Love that Dan Wesson though. Kinda wish I hadn’t sold mine.
I got my first revolver in a five inch. A 686+. I couldn't decide between 4&6 so I chose 5. There something about the looks and feel of a 5 that is just right.
Interesting about the Manurhin M73 . Ever since I bought and fell in lov with my first 6" 357 I've been hoping NOT to run across that $3000 Manurhin M73 in a gun shop ... lawd grant me the strength .
Well, having M73, I dare to say I would never need any other revolver in my life :)
@@EdD-ym6le I understand your concern. I'm saving up for a cytogeneticly treated AR barrel. The what would Stoner riffle is nice but I have food and gas to buy.
@@rodrigoroaduterte9415 I second that !
Thanks Paul!
This is not meant to detract from the presentation at all.
While the 8" barrel shows diminishing returns using factory ammo, someone who hand loads their own ammo may be able to whip up a combination of components that could really step up performance in the longer platform.
I have no doubt that there are also factory loads that could do that also. But I've no idea what those would be.
Norma makes ammunition specifically designed for PCC use.
With the right handload you can definitely up your game with the longer barrel, but handloading wasn't the focus.
I would think to optimize burn, a person would greatly benefit from handloading this caliber - perhaps more than most?...Given it's one of those calibers used in both rifles & pistols, it would seem something must give. I'd speculate with the pistols, that the burn isn't completing and powder being burnt after the projectile leaves the muzzle. Just guessing, but with a Henry 20" barrel, factory ammo must be such that it burns to that full length? Or maybe not? - Because then I don't see a huge fireball when Paul's shooting from the shortest barrel, - just somewhat, occasionally. And hardly any at all with the longest barrel - which is so very much shorter than a rifle. Very curious how this caliber works out of both lengths with factory loads. Are they possibly slowing down out of the rifles?
@@zantrex4 in .357? I wasn't able to find that type...I only get results for 9mm PCC ammo, + results from other makers, besides Norma in that caliber. The .357 I find a head-scratcher. I'm not really familiar with it, but when I bought a Henry a couple years ago, I considered various calibers, and noticed this was one (& .44 mag) that is available but also common in pistols. The others, (like .45-70 & .30-30) weren't...So, I couldn't figure out how to buy ammo for it if I had chosen it. Or is it all the same?
@@PaulHarrell
Yup, that was why the response was caveated. It was meant to add some info, and in no way be a critique of your presentation.
Excellent content and a thorough evaluation of the topic as usual. Thank you for all your efforts, Paul.
Oh this is perfect! I was looking for information like this!
Thanks Paul, great stuff!
As a septuagenarian I am anxiously anticipating your ‘Which part of the trifocal?’ test and demonstration video. Cataract surgery in 2015 much improved my situation, substantially brightening my view of whatever front sight is in use, and allowing a return to less complex shooting glasses. However, presbyopia does seem to result in diminished resistance to cumulative eyestrain: In less than optimal light, I find myself working hard to choose among two or three apparent front sights after less than an hour at the butts.
If you are right eye and right hand dominant, pick the front sight on left when having double or triple choices. At least that's what works for me.
I'm right behind you and typically cope with it by using 1.5x "cheater glasses" so the sight picture is sharp and clear, then just aim at the center of the blur.
Good test. I’m a bit surprised there was not more difference from 4”-6” and 6”-8”. I suspect most factory loads are optimized for the more common barrel lengths so 6” is probably about the longest that would give you any significant gains. If you roll your own and use slower burning powders you could probably see a more significant difference in the longer barrels. I use 7.5” and 6” revolvers for hunting on occasion and also reload, but I don’t own a chronograph unfortunately so I don’t know if any of my loads are really getting the most out of my pistols. Maybe it’s time to invest in a chrono.
How are you reloading ammo without having a chronograph to even check for standard deviation on your ammo? Not trying to be an ass but it is a basic principle of reloading if you want to understand what the changes you make are doing to the rounds you fire.
wouldnt say needing to know standard deviation is basic. if accuracy cant detect the problem then most of the time it probably isnt enough to be relevant in the situation.
@@joshua_J Some people reload for cost, others do it to get a specific load. The former doesn't really need a chronograph.
@@joshua_J reload for accuracy and you'll pretty much have a SD that doesn't matter.
That's how people hand loaded for decades before chronos were available. If you're competing in long range shooting sports it matters but outside of that loading for accuracy at normal hunting and self defense ranges you'll be in a more than enough without having a chrono.
@@JamesSmullins well phrased
I concur with virtually everything in your explanation about how barrel length affects muzzle velocity. The quibble is with the relationship between pressure build up and bullet pre-muzzle movement.
Some years ago I had two clients. One was a handgun manufacturer, who, as a result of more modern piezo pressure sensors, was interested in the same question but uncertain as to how to develop data to answer it. The other was a scientific outfit whose capabilities seemed to be exactly what was needed. I put both clients together and was rewarded with the opportunity to go along for the ride and see what was learned. And, for the record, putting these two groups together was my sole contribution; I claim no personal expertise on the subject.
It turned out that for loads like mid-range to factory normal using propellants like Bullseye or Unique, peak combustion chamber pressure occurred before the bullet began to move out of the case. For higher pressure rounds using typically “slower” propellants, such as Win 296/Hodgdon H110, the bullet began to move before peak combustion chamber pressure was achieved, but only by a very small amount (less than about ¼ to ½ of an inch, from memory).
A couple of other things of possible interest that I learned. No. 1 is that the point of peak chamber pressure signals the completion of whatever degree of propellant combustion is going to happen. No. 2 is that as the bullet begins move down the bore, the effect of the Ideal Gas Law and the resultant increase in combustion chamber volume causes post-combustion combustion chamber pressure to decrease. However and No. 3, so long as combustion chamber pressure during down-the-bore bullet travel exceeds a given value (dominated by friction of the bullet within the bore), bullet velocity would continue to increase (up to the point of bullet exiting the muzzle and combustion pressure venting to the atmosphere).
I really appreciate videos like this from you I always end up learning something even when I thought I knew everything about it. thank you Paul.
One thing to consider is that it takes more energy to accelerate the faster you go, so an increase from 1200fps to 1300fps is not the same additional energy on target as an increase from 1300fps to 1400fps. The returns might not be quite as diminishing as they seem simply by looking at chronograph velocities.
its a velocity squared relationship in energy terms. To double your velocity means to quadruple the energy to do so.
My thoughts exactly, but thats why he mentioned what kind of ammo he uses, so you could do the math and show the energy the bullet had when passing the chronograph
Yeah but for the demonstration, carrying a 8 or 10 inch barrel on a pistol is rediculously long and heavy. That said, people that advocate for 16 inch barrels for 9mm carbines are usually dampening the velocity woth that kind of barrel. If you need more energy, I'd highly suggest using a more capable caliber. You are very correct though and the numbers agree that 1000fps and 1400fps are incredibly different effects with the same bullet weight (9mm vs .357) for example
So I crunched the numbers and here's what I came up with:
Percent energy increase:
2.5 to 4 inch: 21.0% (Fiocchi), 20.9% (Remington)
4 to 6 inch: 6.4% (Fiocchi), 12.5% (Remington)
6 to 8 inch: 5.7% (Fiocchi), 2.2% (Remington)
One other thing to build on what you're saying is although energy increases exponentially, recoil (momentum) still only increases in direct relation to velocity.
Percent recoil increase:
2.5 to 4 inch: 10.0% (Fiocchi), 9.9% (Remington)
4 to 6 inch: 3.1% (Fiocchi), 6.1% (Remington)
6 to 8 inch: 2.8% (Fiocchi), 1.1% (Remington)
@@f38stingray the momentum calculation (or your wording) isn't necessarily true. Though its more attributed to talking about these concepts using freedom units.
Energy is still a viable metric for recoil. Instead of .5*m*v^2, you are able to use mg(x) Because lbs is a weight and not a mass, the acceleration (32.2ft/s2) is already there. Ergo, you can infer recoil directly from impact energy (ft -lbs). There's also some percentage of this energy being translated to recoil (not 100%) obviously and so you'd find it in relative terms experimentally. By that, I meant the net recoil is some % of the energy in the system, and therefore - any change in energy is also multiplied by the same %.
The units work out very easy. If you end up with 300ft-lbs and the object is 200lbs, then if 100% of that energy is dumped into the 200lbs, it would move 1.5 ft. Obviously, this never the case due to heat, bullet expansion, pass through, etc. If referring to perceived recoil - you have whatever damping built into the stock/ grip as well damping through your hand/arm/body etc.
It's actually really cool watching high caliber pistol shots in slow motion as you can see the rippling energy wave through the hand.
Using your numbers for energy, even that 20.9% increase would widdle down to
The greater velocity is probably due ALSO to the greater amount of time that the pressure is acting on the bullet. Pressure exerts a force. A force over a time frame generates an impulse which generates momentum. Momentum is equal to force times time (longer barrel equaled greater distance and therefore greater time and greater momentum).
Momentum is mass times velocity.
@@metamorphicorder That's also correct. Check the units and you'll find that force times time equals momentum equals mass times velocity. All three quantities are expressed as mass times distance divided by time.
Thanks for this, Mr. Harrell. I have been quite curious about this subject.
WOW! I stopped the video just to say THANK YOU! and "Three Cheers for the Dan Wesson Pistol Pack!" SOOOO COOOOOL. Now I will watch the rest for the rational data with an attempt at emotional detachment. But if I had a tail, it would be wagging.
Extremely in some calibers no so much in others
Paul, in light of your last vid, I wish there were a way for you to test a selection of what the anti-gunners used to call "Saturday Night Specials", a media buzz term much like Assault Rifle and Mass Shootings. They weren't great, or even good for that matter, but they sure were "the gun you have" for a LOT of people who couldn't afford anything else for self defense.
Has a barrel that’s blue and cold
Ain't good for nuthin'
But put a man 6 feet in a hooooooole.
@@BFunkP38 not blue and gold?
@@joshuagibson2520 sadly that's the best outcome in some cases
There's a group called ballisticsbytheinch that did some pretty extensive testing back in the day with barrel blanks for several dozen calibers and cut them down inch by inch while recording the results. Their data is still published online for anyone interested.
Their site is worth visiting.
Very interested in this topic. Thanks to those who annoyed Paul enough to make him do it.
Beautiful Dam Wesson pistol set sir. Thank you for doing this demonstration. My take away from this is that after you hit 6" in barrel length you are quickly approaching the point of full combustion for the powder charge. It would be interesting to see if different calibers would have different barrel lengths where this effect begins.
*SCAM* ALERT! ^^^ THAT is a *SCAMMER.* Please be aware that that is a *SCAMMER* and do not fall for the *SCAMMER.*
13 minutes since posting and 540 likes. Paul's got some pull.
Fantastic video as always, thanks Paul!
Thank you for all this wonderful content
I'm wondering how much the velocity would increase with a 16" or 18" barrel. Interesting results you got from the revolver. And what a nice kit you were able to get. 👍
can you do more .40 s&w, but not 180gr, between 135gr and 165gr.
also can you use federal hst & punch, winchester ranger t-series & supreme elite pdx1 & silvertip & defender, hornady critical duty & defense, underwood, buffalo bore, sellier & bellot(jhp & fmj), doubletap, corbon, black hills ammo, remington golden saber & ultimate defense, prvi partizan(jhp & fmj), fiocchi(jhp & fmj), speer gold dot, sig sauer v-crown, blazer, pmc, magtech and grizzly ammo.
through your meat simulation target and ballistics gel & through barriers like glass, sheet metal, drywall and plywood in front of the ballistics gel and meat simulation targets? and also the meat simulation and barriers like glass, sheet metal, drywall and plywood targets from different distances for performance at different distances?
and vs 9mm, 9mm +p & 9mm +p+ and .45 acp & .45 acp +p+ through all the same for the 9mm, 9mm +p & 9mm +p+ and .45 acp & .45 acp +p
thx!
Thank you Mr. Harrell for the great early birthday gift of this video! I always look forward to your guidance and knowledge!
That's a lot of work there Paul! Great info!
It would be interesting to throw a .357 lever action carbine into the mix to see if there would have been a drop in velocity especially with the Remington ammo. I've always wondered if pistol caliber carbines are effective with ammo loaded for pistol barrel lengths under 6". I'm assuming factory "pistol caliber" ammo is optimized for pistol length barrels, correct?
I shoot identical .44 "magnum" ammunition (reduced loads for SASS matches where limiting the maximum velocity out the barrel is the goal) in my Ruger revolvers (5.5" barrels) and Marlin rifle (20" barrel). Granted, the actions and barrels are different, but my velocity goes from 790 fps in the revolvers to 930 fps in the rifle. If .44 magnum defensive ammo comes down in price, I'll have to try chronographing it.
@@kevingoebel170 regular winchester super X is 1800fps out of a 20 inch 1892 levergun
depends on the powder slow powder will likely get more vel from a longer barrel
Yeah, most pistol ammo is gonna have a super fast powder to maximize the shorter barrel. Sticking it in a longer barrel won't do much if anything which is kinda what we saw here. If you hand load, a longer barrel could be a much bigger deal.
Here's the answer I was looking for. The burn rate of the powder being used in a shorter vs longer barrel. As a Reloader since I was 9 years old & now 57 I have many many different powders for certain guns. Not just for barrel length but for accuracy & bullet weight.
Their are " SPECIALTY AMMO " out there that claim they are for shorter barrels but they're lacking & STUPIDLY EXPENSIVE AS MOST SPECIALTY AMMO IS. GREAT COMMENT, SIR.
@@WaterZer0 that's debatable. While what you're saying is totally correct, manufacturers no longer publish burning rates of their powder. The only one I know it does is magtec. While you could figure out which powder is best among those of the same brand judging by their recommended recipes, it would be guesswork to compare powders from different brands
@@Neomalthusiano Why load a slow powder into factory handgun ammo? The velocity is gonna be bad, and people are not going to buy it most likely.
Granted I guess you could claim some insane velocity and put in the fine print it's out of a 10 inch barrel.
@@Neomalthusiano One way would be use a wad cutter , likely very fast powder . And use a Winchester 158 gr sold for hunting or high power likely Win 296 / H110 powder used very slow for a handgun .
Awesome video Paul. That’s a nice revolver by the way. I really like how that set has the extra barrels. Thanks for another great video.
These videos are great. I love watching Paul Harrell videos when I have nothing else to do. Great topic too.
Not more pressure, more time for the pressure to act on the bullet increasing the velocity.
yep
More pressure too, because pressure builds up until the projectile leaves the barrel. Just part of the powder burns inside the chamber, part of it start to burn while the bullet is already in the barrel.
I think the high point is about shortly after the bullet gets out of the case and or in the first 1.5" or less ... could be much less
@@danoneill2846 : My memory is that peak pressure in rifle cartridges is when the bullet has traveled about 3" - 4". I imagine the distance is less in pistol cartridges.
@@Neomalthusiano they have done lots of testing that show the spike is when the bullet is close or very close to the case in a handgun
Love the content. One small complaint though, I always find that your mic is super quiet. Do you just use the mic on the camera to record audio or is there a mic on person?
Would you possibly be open to donations of a mic?
I find your videos extremely informative and entertaining, but just a little hard to hear sometimes.
Ive been wanint to make this comment for a long time, but always catch your vids when they have 5000 comments and i get lost in the sea of them. Hopefully this one gets through
I’m hearing impaired and I hear him just fine. I found this handy control on my various devices that controls this thing called “volume.”
@@honkerman74 Whoa there is an option for that? I didnt think of that, is that a new feature? I know youtube is adding new stuff all the time, and i swear i have never seen anything like that before.
Maybe i should have googled a way to make sounds louder in videos before making such a silly comment. Do you think they released a patch notes with all the new stuff they added with the Volume feature?
Having a little experience with recording outdoors myself, I can tell you that there are times when the mic will not pick up all that well because of environmental factors. As a hearing impaired person, I’m sensitive to these factors; however, other than days when he’s recording in windy conditions, it’s never something I’ve observed in Paul’s videos.
That said, if you wanted to buy him different mic equipment, I doubt he’d turn you down, but of course I can’t speak for him.
Even though my hearing is good, I always have closed captions "CC" turned on mostly to see if if the spoken word and the captions match, plus I'm listening and reading--it must be akin to watching the video twice.
Really love your videos Paul, keep them coming, and while some may find longer video formats boring I really love sitting down and listening to an hour and a half of what you have to say in its entirety. Keep on ignoring those who've only shot a gun through their computer screens, because to me your one of most in depth firearms expert that really has impacted the way I see things.
As usual, another excellent video. Thank you sir. Keep up the good work.
May you please do a video on .22lr, and simply test hand guns and rifles with different barrel length. I wonder where the diminishing returns start with a small caliber like the .22lr. I've always used a 22" barrel on my rifles, but I wonder what the most ideal barrel length would be. If there's already a video on this, please share.
Supposedly 22LR velocities start to suffer after 16", but longer barrels have been popular due to the increased sight radius.
@@craigbenz4835 I'm watching videos on it now. But nothing compares in the slightest to Paul Harrels extensive knowledge and mitigation of outside factors on the test subjects in his videos.
If I can get the right guns to make a fair, realistic comparison I'll put something together. I have heard conflicting reports about when .22 barrrels are too long.
@@PaulHarrell you're the man!
I have a theory that the longer the barrel, the scarier it is and therefore the more useful it is as a deterrent.
Paul, what is your longest gun and is it A) scariest B) most approachable or C) exactly as scary as any other gun length?
Isn't muzzle diameter a deterrent too, though? Also capacity. We're all supposed to be _fine_ with small magazines but _terrified_ of big ones, right?
Logically, the best deterrent would be a 12- no, wait. A 10- no, again. A twelve-shot 40 mm grenade-launcher revolver loaded with eight-ounce buckshot loads.
Yeah. That'd scare someone off. I mean, seriously, anyone who can casually stroll around with that thing on their hip and actually use it is someone you don't want to tangle with unless you brought your own tank and/or AH-64.
Excellent video, Mr. Harrell. Well thought out and executed testing.
Thanks for making the Barrel Length / Velocity video.
Paul Harrell: The "Alton Brown" of firearms.
Nah
Thanks for demonstrating the topic of barrel length. Sometimes a 4-inch barrel produces greater velocity than a 6-inch barrel using the same ammunition as measured by a chronograph. Generally, most of the time the longer barrel will produce more velocity with the same ammunition. Does that make enough difference? According to Bill Jordan and his "No Second Place Winner," motor patrols were better off with the "inferior" four inch barrel than with the six inch barrel because other factors (such as being able to sit in the patrol car) were more important than marginal shooting performance.
The Dan Wesson was innovative.
Again, thanks for the demonstration. It was a mostly peaceful protest--and quite informative.
Thanks Paul, very cool!
Thanks for the presentation Paul.
Accurate, to the point and excellent gun safety.