The Joker vs The Riddler! | Batman: The War of Jokes and Riddles
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- čas přidán 28. 08. 2024
- Untold until now, one of the darkest chapters in Batman’s history sees all of Gotham’s villains choosing sides in a battle of wits that soon turns into a full-blown war-complete with civilian casualties. In the War of Jokes and Riddles, only one side can claim victory... but the scars it leaves will shape Batman’s future as he makes the most important decision of his life. Never miss an episode by subscribing today! bit.ly/2WYvgkt #batman #thebatman #joker
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Buy Batman: the War of Jokes and Riddles on Amazon: amzn.to/35nQuCo
Selena: How did you know about the parts you weren't there for?
Bruce: I'm Batman Darling.
Selina: Really??
Bruce: Alright, it's how I assume those moments went. Think I'm wrong.
Selina: Nope
In this episode you can see Sal, in real time, go from hating to liking a book
The whole "riddler's genius is hard to write for" comment really peeled back the curtain too. How DO you illustrate genius?
@@captainvimes6079 That is also why there are only 3 Riddler centric episodes in Batman: The Animated Series along with cameos since Paul Dini said it is hard to write intelligence. You had to come up with smart riddles.
A beutiful sight
Time stamp lol?
Sal: There isn't a lot of good Riddler stories.
Me: How dare you say things that are entirely true.
Hey at least The Riddler has the best side missions in the Arkham games...
Wait no I meant the opposite of that.
They hated Sal, for he told them the truth
Sal: why you booing me, I'm right!
There are actually quite a few good Riddler stories, they just happen to be rather obscure in the realm of Batman comics. Here are ten that I think are really good and worth checking out:
10.) Riddle of the Jinxed Sphinx (The Batman Chronicles #3)
09.) Earth One vol. 2
08.) Solitaire (Batman vol. 2 #23.2)
07.) E Nigma, Consulting Detective (Detective Comics vol. 1 #822)
06.) Questions Multiply the Mystery (Batman vol. 1 Annual #8)
05.) Riddle Me That (Legends of the Dark Knight vol. 1 #185-189)
04.) A New Dawn (Batman Confidential vol. 1 #26-28)
03.) Riddled (Detective Comics vol. 1 #705-707)
02.) Dark Knight, Dark City (Batman vol. 1 #452-454)
01.) Zero Year (Batman vol. 2 #21-33)
Funny story, I also plan to tell my fiancé the entire story of the War of Jokes and Riddles right after proposing to her so she also learns what kind of person I am.
Did you also ask her if she knew the tragic story of Darth Plagueis The Wise?
Ah yes, the story that Tom King wrote because Ethan pitched the idea of Joker vs Riddler story way back in the batman: R.I.P. episode
I really want this to be real. lol
They quite literally spoke this into existence years before it came out. The ultimate testament to the power of Back Issues
@@The1jacksprat
Batman R.I.P. back issues 42:47
Tehnically Sal pitched the idea, idk why I thought it was Ethan
Batman: I almost killed a man in anger.
Catwoman: Huh. I dig it.
Glad to see that Kite Man being a joke was not only well incorporated into this whole thing from start to finish, but that it ended up being the whole point of the war. Just, kinda funny indeed!
Tom King didn't have to retroactively make Kite-Man one of the most important characters in Batman's history in this story, but he did anyway. He did that for us. Say whatever you will about the man, you gotta respect that.
Batman is acting like he's a monster for almost killing someone who 100% deserved it, meanwhile catwoman is breathing a sigh of relief that his dark secret is so tame. "I thought you were going to tell me about your deviant art account or something"
Your FURRY deviantart account!
This felt like an event book where I didn’t buy the tie ins and missed half the story
.......omg
*Riddler:* "How could my master plan have failed?! The crux of it was Kite Man!"
Riddler's failing was getting Joker to laugh by making a Kite Man the punchline. He should've chosen to make a Mail Man the punchline.
_Because it's all in the delivery!_
Now that's funny
Was that a fucking Slimecicle reference?
Nice
“Whoa whoa whoa, an answer to your puzzle who?”
Might be the funniest joke Ben has ever made. It really got me. The timing was great and I should have, but I didn’t see it coming.
That and the "I've poisoned both your meals" bit were all-time great ComicPop jokes
Riddler carving a question mark into his chest is equivalent to Leto Jokers Damaged tattoo
I mean this still feels more credible than the Joker sitting down calmly at a tattoo parlour while he gets a needle jammed into his forehead
@@Ultinuc you mean like Joker calmly sitting in a dirty prison cell while The Dollmaker slices his face off?
@@exquisitecorpse__ so many people think that's stupid why is THAT the example you're using
@@Ultinuc I think its stupid too. Its stupider than the tattoos is my point
I actually dig King’s take on Joker. There’s a simplicity rarely seen in a post Dark Knight world.
Ethan's face when Sal mentions some people think that Batman's rogues represent an aspect of Batman is priceless.
You see Polka Dot Man represents the circular nature of Batman's dynamics with his villains
Yeah lol. Wtf does Killer Moth represent?
@@HOTD108_ Loneliness
@@HOTD108_ If I had to make a guess, it would be how a lot of people see Batman.
Ah, yes, Condiment King, a warped reflection of Batman's love of fast food
My favorite part of Tom King's run. As soon as I saw the notification that you guys did War of Jokes and Riddles, I audibly said "hell yeah."
I actually really like the ending. Bruce would see almost killing someone as shameful. Rightfully so, especially since *Joker* is the one who stopped him.
I also love that _that's_ the moment that makes Joker laugh. Because of course it is. Joker's whole thing is that he wants to prove Batman's no better than him, and the living proof just happened right in front of his face. And he didn't even have to do anything. _That's_ what's funny.
Batman: "The War of Jokes and Riddles was my greatest shame."
Catwoman: "Except for Jason's death, or that time Ras stole your contingencies for the Justice League, or letting Gotham Girls' brother die, or that Time you let Bane break your back, or that time the Riddler turned Gotham into Mad Max with giant plants, or-"
Batman: *deep sigh*
Or the death of his parents. Or the fact that he was in Batman & Robin.
@@tjjordan4207 Or the Dark Knight Rises.
@@aisnota5192 I have a confession... I actually like the Dark Knight Rises, despite that I agree with a lot of the criticisms.
The turning point for Tom King’s Batman run and the event that gave us Kite Man… Hell yeah.
Update;
“Riddle me this… The less you have, the more one is worth.”
“A friend.”
Long Live Kite-Man, the greatest supervillain of our time
@@halfmettlealchemist8076 Hell yeah.
Sal is right about the Riddler stories. I can only think of this story, Zero Year, and Dark Knight, Dark City. Hush if you want to stretch. That’s really surprising considering how well regarded Riddler.
@Killian Brodson cause they easily become predictable. They're the most terrifying and effective when Batman encounters them for the first time. Every other time it starts getting redundant.
I have a book I'm gonna read call run riddler run, it may be based on the animated series, but hopefully we can add it to the list of good riddler stories!!!
@Killian Brodson Tynion tried to make a good Scarecrow story recently with his Fear State event, wherein Scarecrow manipulated the fearmongering tendencies of mass media and government surveillance in order to create mass terror and paranoia. Which is a genuinely cool concept....and also which unfortunately got bogged down by tie-ins and wrapping up Future State plot points, and also was in the middle of Tynion leaving DC for creator-owned work. So yeah, it ended up being kind of a mess, which is a shame, because I really did like the idea of a Scarecrow-focused event.
You aren’t wrong as far as an arc. You have your great one off issues like Batman Adventures #10 as “The Last Riddler Story” and Detective Comics #822 with “E. Nigma Consulting Detective.” You’ve got those Batman: The Animated Series episodes, but that’s really it. I think a lot of how well regarded he is are from those episodes and the older fans at this point would probably cite Frank Gorshin where he was considered the best villain from that show.
There is only one you missed as far as a big arc where it’s not incredibly long which is Batman: Earth One Volume 2, but yeah, that’s the list.
I've always liked this story, the part with his son dying was tragic, and to see Charley become Kite-Man because that was his son's favorite activity choked me up when I first read it.
I've always kind of liked this story. King's run is better read as a binge than it was twice a month. The thing that finally makes Joker laugh again was pretty well-executed IMO. I always saw the no-laughter thing as his version of depression, but King thankfully left that unsaid.
Weirdly, a depressed version of the Joker who just has no patience or enthusiasm for elaborate schemes and is just randomly murdering people in the hopes that _something_ will snap him out of his funk, is genuinely one of the most creative and frightening interpretations of his character I’ve seen in years. Say what you will about Tom King’s Batman run as a whole, I always thought Joker was a character he just nailed down expertly.
I agree that king’s run is better as a binge read. I read the first bit as bi-monthly and it paled in comparison to sitting down one night end reading them back to back
@@yoda4833 wooooow i had no idea this was a thing. i read this as it was coming out and hated it but while watching this video i realized i want to re read it
Sal: “So there’s not a lot of good Riddler stories, like at all….. AT ALL.”
Me: “Well he’s not wrong”
@@CrisisComics that's a good story that riddler is in but not a good story about riddler.
That's partially why I'm excited for The Batman. It's so unbelievably refreshing to see a blockbuster superhero movie treating Riddler as a legitimate threat
I appreciate the restraint not to make the joke: Erecsmile dysfunction
King: Kite man!
DC: (Throws money) Take it you son of a gun!
I already know which side wins the war. Monty Python taught me about the lethal joke. No such thing as a lethal riddle. Case closed
Never thought we'd get another Tom King Batman arc on this show. Selfishly, I'd love to see more of the much more acclaimed Snyder run be discussed on the couch. Particularly, "Batman: Endgame"
I believe they're planning "Scott-tober" (according to a few episode ago) so they might throw the big moments of Snyder's Batman in there like Eternal, Death of the Family, and Endgame
EDIT: just went back and made sure, and they actually did Death Of The Family years ago. The others are good suggestions though
@@Wolvy114 If that's true, I feel that they might finally cover Death Metal then, and oh boy I'm hyped if that's the case
@@halfmettlealchemist8076 lmao I can’t wait for that, the Metal episode is one of my favourites
@@Wolvy114 Well they did already cover Death Of The Family years back in the first year of the show. Zero Year too I think. But maybe they can redo them perhaps. And there's still plenty more they could draw on. Maybe Superheavy with Mr. Bloom and Jim Gordon Batman.
@RedLightning17 yeah, I mentioned DOTF in the edit I made earlier
I like the ending because it makes sense of why he sees it as his greatest failing. He knows if the Joker hadn't stopped him, he would have killed the Riddler. He can try to say he's a bigger man, and he can control himself, but he knows there is a point they can push him where he will kill, where he can't handle himself.
Gotta give it to Ridler... the whole Kite Man thing WAS funny.
Wait a minute, Kiteman's name is literally Charlie Brown? Wtf is his weakness, footballs being pulled up from in front of him? 🤣🤣🤣
He has a bad relationship with the villain Sportsmaster xD
@@warioskapelli3100Ngl I'd read that team-up
Well King’s entire run does ends with him and Bruce drinking beers at bar watching football, which King has said was how he always wanted to end it even though it was cut short overall.
@@user-cn3vi1oi2t Holy shit that's hilarious
@@halfmettlealchemist8076 Sportsmaster can just be constantly sabotaging Kiteman's criminal antics and hiting him in midair with a football. Shit, this is a good idea. Why has nobody done this??
If anyone’s looking for a solid Riddler story, try the Year of the Villain Riddler one-shot Mark Russell wrote. It’s genuinely one of the best one-shots I’ve ever read.
Thank you, I was trying to remember who wrote that. It was really good. Too bad Tynion immediately reversed the outcome of that story when he started a few issues later.
Didn't Ethan wish this into existence on an old episode of Back issues?
Yeah. On the BATMAN: R.I.P episode😁
Monkey’s paw in action
Lmfao still the one part of Tom Kings run I love without any caveats is Kite Man 😂
Hell Yeah
From my experience powerscalers love the Deadshot VS Deathstroke fight, it's a big talking point when people are trying to show how good Deathstroke and Deadshot are.
"Slappers only" is a GOAT reference
This one is a long time coming, great episode guys, love it.
Wow, I can't actually beleive you guys are doing this story. I'm not a fan of the Tom Kings Batman run, but the man had some great story ideas. I've actually always really liked this story so thanks for talking about it!
Oh my God they're finally doing it, tearing apart their own Frankenstein monster's creation!
Ah yes, the comic that transformed Kite-Man from a nobody into a household icon. As he should be.
Edit: I also can't believe this comic predicted Buff Riddler from the Harley Quinn animated series, truly this book was ahead of its time
Or it could have been the stupid hard Batman Forever video game, which has Riddler transform into “Big Riddle”…yeah it was probably this xD
@@warioskapelli3100 Oh my god, Big Riddle! I can't believe I forgot about that
Predicted? Or inspired?
Still can’t wrap my head around this entire story being told because Batman had the worst case of post-nut clarity.
Batman King Tut's Tomb was a good Riddler/Batman team up story; i don't remember the stakes being high, or riddler being threatening, but it was just a fun little adventure.
It's frustrating how wildly Tom Kings writing swings from genuinely clever/intelligent analysis of classic characters to some of the most cringy "isn't this dark??" Crap I've ever read
I actually really love The War Of Jokes And Riddles, but I would have loved it even more if it was the standalone book Tom King and Mitch Gerads pitched it as
As much as I truly enjoy Tom King's efforts, his Batman run had more misses than hits. I'm still getting Batman/Catwoman once it gets a deluxe HC but I'm mostly excited about the art. Not the actual story lol.
While I love DC characters, I dislike playing the "did this happen" game between universal reboots. Thanks Comicpop for always making it digestible!
This episode just came out and it’s
Already a classic 😂😂
I really like Joker in King's run. He's not super prominent, but it still feels very Joker
“It’s The Riddler but ripped.”
So the Rippler?
The Jizzler's cousin
Nah it's Big Riddle
The joker reverse question mark bit at the end was just comedy gold 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 whole episode was hilairous 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I never disliked this story. I also never thought it was the best thing ever but you guys talking about it makes it sound so much better.
we need a kite-man run where he comes back from a vacation happening to learn about battle kites and the danger string and adapt that into his style.
Remember in an old back issues episode when you guys had the idea of a joker vs riddler story before this story was made? Anyone remember what episode of back issues that was?
I remember them referencing the pitch more than I remember the actual pitch.
_"[Batman] used that plane already,_ *these are Kites!"*
Like- Oh, duh. 😂 😂
Dear Comic Pop, ear me out: what if there were a show (maybe just a series of shorts where Ethan runs the couch and explains why or why not a comic book science thing is totally crazy or maybe somewhat plausible. I've been watching the show (Marvel and DC episodes) for years and those reactions from Ethan have always been one of my favorite parts maybe Sal could suggest the topics and Ethan can just go off from there I don't know. love the show and congrats on the recent milestone.
Oh I’ve been waiting for this one! Sal covering Tom King’s Batman is always a lot of fun
Kite-man is such a fun character to read during his Batman run. I might be in the minority, but I do dig Tom King’s Batman tbh
Man, I don't know why couldn't laugh. I was laughing through this entire episode! 😂
This one was a long time coming. Can't wait for Sal to suffer through this. It's going to be fun!
I think this is the real reason Selina left Bruce at the altar lol
This is the funniest book. Like...this whole thing is just Kite Man's joke of an origin story. This is a fantastic book.
The joke factory reminds me of the laugh factory stand up theatres
I wasnt really liking this comic until the twist which I think really pulls it together
This is Kite Man’s Killing Joke
Since Riddler was primarily based off of the Zodiac Killer in the new Batman movie, I could easily imagine Condiment Man and Film Freak (if they were ever to appear in Matt Reeves’ continuity) to take major inspiration from the Chicago Tylenol poisonings and Mark Twitchell case respectively.
I was waiting on this story to be a Back Issues episode, since I remember you guys talked about it a while ago
Ethan should be credited with coming up with the concept of this book.
Sal: "yeah the riddler is in the batman...." "PROCEEDS TO SHOW A IMAGE OF THE GIMP-LER."
1:02:25 I can't tell who or what book he's talking about here. My best guess is Run, Riddler, Run by Gerard Jones? Does anyone know for sure?
12:24 the irony that Ben mentioned "Peaky Blinders" in a Batman-related book😂😂😂.
Fun story: when I first when to college, that was the first chance I had to regularly go to a comic book store because it (Graham Crackers!) was right off of campus. I’d owned trades and very few floppies before, but now I could get issues when they come out! And what did I get first? This story arc. Oof.
"A sex worker? A superhero? But sexworkers are EEEVIL!" Some executive who is vastly overpaid and doesn't live in the real world
"Yes son I see, I shall become the Kite"-Charlie Brown or something
Aw yeah time for the greatest Kite Man story. Hell yeah!!
The Shoveler/Mystery Men homage at 34:08, absolutely perfect.
“Stabs Riddler in the face!”
“Oh my god!”
“Or so you think!”
“Oh.”
This is neat. This time Ben and Ethan seemed more into than Sal
“A letdown fuck.” Hahahahaha!
Dependent on how well The Batman performs at the box office I could see WB and Reeves adapting this into live action and marketing it as a villain civil war type civil
I hated this story so much. I remember when it was coming out and the shear implausibility was maddening. That's the worst part of the TK Batman run is that it throws logical characterization out the window with a burning passion. Virtually none of the people in this arc act as they would in any other scenario. Just frustrating.
Ok ok ok.....that was freakin hilarious 🤣😂
I imagine Batman tells stories the way Kratos tells stories in God of War 2018.
So this issue made me quit Batman so I was excited to see Sal’s view. However I don’t know if it was Ben and Ethan’s excitement or how Sal told the story but I enjoyed this issue this time. Now I feel like I misjudged Kings run and will have to go back and read them again
I've always been a big believer in the Riddler. I think the most I ever enjoyed him was in the Arkham games. But I found it especially random when they made him the twist villain in the Batman Hush movie.
As soon as I saw the notification:
AW HELL YEAH
32:10 Things are WORSE than EVER!!
A lot of Batman stories would be quicker and Batman’s life would be a lot easier if he just picks up the phone and calls any one of his super powered friends
Been waiting on this one for so long love you guys
I do want to point out you mentioned kite man retracting the gang out the window and how it's similar to the dark knight that's actually a real device that actually dates back to around the cold war the fulton device it was still a prototype back then but it genuinely is a real thing
This was an amazing video!!!!
I will be astounded if the new Batman trilogy builds to this comic since riddler meets joker.
Also Ethan looked so happy whenever kite man was brought up
Sal has a point about Riddler stories. When I think my favorite Riddler stories it's never the comics. It's episodes of the 60s show and The 90s cartoon. Maybe Batman Forever for pure nostalgia from when I was a kid.
I actually like the twist at the end. This was pretty good
I've always wanted them to do this story
NOOOOOOO WAY YOU GUYS DID IT LMAO thank you
For a batman story, it's stupid. For a riddler and joker story it's just ridiculous.
For a kite man origin story. Hell yeah.
Turns out The Batman was just a Riddler movie and I am happy for that
Sal on King's Batman run, oh this is gonna be fun
She's like Asleep - Ethan 😂😂
Lol the ComicPOP alternate ending. The Dark Ben-verse, a similar story with a whacky twist that changes everything.
Sal knows Tom, so we should take his word for the man having deep knowledge of the source material.
But King makes some strange decisions as to which villains are included on Joker and Riddler's teams, if this tale is to be included in continuity:
- Two-Face chooses a side, despite Carmine Falcone being alive (contradicting The Long Halloween).
- Scarface does not appear until Detective Comics #583, well into Jason Todd's tenure as Robin; meaning Wesker wasn't a villain in year 3 of Batman's career.
- Penguin is employed by Carmine Falcone as an enforcer - contradicting his origins both post-Crisis and in Greg Hurwitz’s Penguin: Pain and Prejudice.
- The modernised Deadshot (as Janin drew him) did not appear until Detective Comics #474, after Dick Grayson had left Gotham for Hudson University.
-Likewise for Man-Bat, who did not appear until Detective Comics #400.
- Deathstroke is the most malleable here: with his career spanning long before his first appearance in New Teen Titans #2. But if he really had killed upwards of 60 people in 5 days in a firefight with Deadshot, he would surely have been a known entity to Robin by the time he joined the Titans, given his training would've included pouring through batman's case files.
It's just a confusing one for continuity buffs to reconcile, given King attempted to be so referential to continuity that he made the post-Crisis confusion between Batman and Catwoman meeting in either Batman #1 or #408 a frequent conversation topic between the two.
Another excuse to disregard anything except Detective Comics after Rebirth as non-canonical, I guess.
Man, what a fun episode! I read this in trade and loved it. I can imagine how this wouldn't have been frustrating floppy waiting.
10:41 While that is true, I would like to point out that a lot of things that Riddler would become in later comics were first suggested by Frank Gorshin on the set of the 60's show. That's where the more dapper suit first appeared, which was Frank's idea. He had more ideas to make the character more serious, but those weren't used (at least not in the show). Stuff like that makes really obvious about how he was the only comic book fan on the show. Besides, Riddler would've been a barely used joke character if not for him and his portrayal, hyena cackle and all. Either way, we should never forget Frank's contributions.
As for Tom King's run, I enjoyed it. While I liked Snyder's run, very nice horror-like elements, I got a bit sick of the near comical levels of brutality on display in a lot of the stories. King's run isn't perfect, and it's still of the more modern comics darker take variety, but it's also got moments of levity, and can be picked up as just a fun read. The little nods to past characters and continuity were nice too, and the writing, while not stellar, was pretty good, and even great in quite a few places. Eh, it's comics, it's art, it's subjective, "mileage will vary".