An Uncomfortable Problem with the Oberheim OB-X8 & Behringer UB-XA
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- čas přidán 25. 06. 2022
- Today, Zach's goin OFF about a problem he has with Oberheim, and the reintroduction of Oberheim synthesizers into today's market. Take a listen and let us know... do you know agree?
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Thanks Tom Oberheim for being a genius and still going strong, helping the synth-community at age 85.
Yeah and thanks to Dave (RIP) for helping him out too
@@noiselabproject9659 It feels so weird, I thought Dave would be with us for so much longer, lost way too soon.
Where some people are as passionate about Moog or the Prophet sound, I think I am in the camp that has always preferred the Oberheim sound. All of them are iconic and are a part of the historical legacy of electronic instruments. I am just thrilled that we all can get newer versions of them all so that they can continue to be explored in the years ahead.
now for Yamaha to bring some of their legends back
The most annoying thing is that OB-X, OB-XA, OB-8 doens't have proper oscillator and noise mixer, like Memorymoog and Prophet do have. Only Matrix-12 finally acquired the mixer section, but ... lost snappy envelopes.
I think that the glory of albums is often subconsciously transferred by the public to synthesizers. People think that a particular synthesizer is the key to success. But it's actually well-made music that has made certain synths more desirable today. At the time this music was being written, a particular synthesizer was just an instrument that the studio could afford.
Today, any professional synthesizer already provides a thousand times more features and a thousand times more quality than people could dream of in the 80s and 90s. Today it's not about the instruments, it's only about whether you can sell the album and concert tickets - or not. And it doesn't matter if you use a free VSTi or a $5,000 analog synthesizer.
I agree!!! It Def goes both ways though! I mean the synth player had to think that sound was rad enough to use first then the people agreed and validated it! Lol
Well said, mate. That summarizes the whole synth thing!
Ok tone snob!
It is kind of about the instruments too though. Maybe if you don't care about sound selection, sure, you can just use generic presets or something, but some of us actually have certain sounds in mind that we want to use. Oberheims just have a certain tonality that I'm totally in love with, and I'm sure the bands in the 80s that used it chose it because they liked the sound of it too. If music today was only about songwriting and selling tickets, why would anyone even bother with buying/using synths? Just use acoustic instruments at that point if that's all music is to you. Those of us who enjoy sound design and cool aesthetics can worry about the synths lol
The magic of the Oberheim sound is in the 2-Pole filter.
As an older person I tend to see people overthink this. My formative years in the world of synths was the early 80's and naturally I gravitated my interest towards big poly synths and I discovered that jupiter-8's were their own thing, same as anything by Sequential, Oberheim and many others. But I especially was drawn to OB-X's, -A's and -8's. They had a sound I liked above all else, never could afford one. That situation continues today, I can't justify buying one but it still has that Oberheim character and sound in similar ways its predecessors did. If I did have a lazy few thousand dollars lying around that would be the synth I would buy. We are especially spoilt these days when it comes to synths so the fact that the OB-X8 generates attention in a much louder and congested market speaks to its qualities. But here's the thing, three years ago I had the enormous privilege to visit Five-G Music Technology in downtown Tokyo. That store is iconic and a must visit for any synth person, it's chaotically stacked with an enormous array of vintage gear, some of which you would have certainly heard of but never have seen an example of in real life, but I digress. On the day I was there I noticed people gravitating towards OB gear more than any other. There was a young service tech in store with a soldering iron in hand under the hood of one, you couldn't chisel the smile off his face, he looked about 20yo. That's the Oberheim effect. Sure it's hugely subjective, your mileage may vary, which makes any attempt to perform an objective analysis largely redundant, it's what you like and what you feel when you make your music. The OB-X8 continues to generate that feeling and I for one am so glad it continues what is an enormously important historical legacy especially in the minds of a younger generation who clearly appreciate everything that came before it. Video opinion pieces make me laugh really, show us the gear, explain the controls, demonstrate the sounds but let us make up our own minds rather than pick at the seams in the vain hope something unravels. That's the real uncomfortable problem.
I think PRINCE kept the OB sound relevant, at least for me.
The Prince VST?
@@bangmateo7481 Bwaaa ha ha ha
Let's play ball...
Rush as well
Queen
@@johndeaux3703 I never knew that is what they used…cool.
Ferris Bueller had an EM-U Emulator 2 in his bedroom when he was a teen so it is no surprise he made this video.
I have always wanted an OG Poly Obie so I preordered the X8; based on a few close and trusted friends who own various OG Obie's and have had considerable hands on time scutinizing the new X8.
As an aside and because Zach talks about the P5, I own a Prophet 5(rev2). Just purchased the new Prophet 10. Comparing the two, I can, tonally, get the rev4 within 95 to 98 percent of the rev2; no FX, just pure raw sound.....pretty damn amazing.
The new OBX8 sounds fantastic. It lives in our studio since 3 days. We can't wait to record new songs with it.
I own the OB8, OBXa, Two Voice, and the more accessible Matrix 6 and 1000, and I’m waiting on my preordered OBX8 just to answer that question: is it going to sound like the vintage ones ? And I think I already know the answer: No
But that’s ok. It would be unrealistic to expect that.
It takes more time and lots more of knob tweaking to get the best sounds of the vintage OBs as compared to the Prophet V or the Jupiter 8 which I also own. The presets in the vintage Oberheims are ok, but the brilliancy is on the editing and endless tones you get from that analog circuitry. The videos by J3PO prove that.
Prince just used presets. Testament to the tune being more important than the synth
It sounds like the originals. Check out the 3 Marcus Ryle videos.
@@SPAZZOID100 No. someting is missing
Hey , just read your post. So what do you think today about the OBX-8. Have one + 2 SEMs reissue ( my dream synth will be an FVS-1!!! Had obx/ xa/ 8, sold them long time ago with an LM-1….. so could you tell me if it an obx used on funkadelic , knee deep?! What about sex shooter, nasty girl( Prince , vanity) get it up! ( Prince, the time) probably the obx-a or the 4 voice, seen live on a video) please answer!!! 🤓😉😎☔️☔️☔️☔️
When I think of the "Oberheim Sound" I think of Zawinul, Bob James, Bill Payne, Lyle Mays, etc. I don't consider "Jump" to be what makes the Oberheim legendary.
I always found the warmth untouchable. The Prophet comes close but the Oberheim still rules there.
You absolutely right. But I think Prince was the best using OB’s!!!💕☔️☔️☔️
I think Tom Sawyer by Rush is by far the best example of the Oberheims strengths, that fat filter sweep sounds incredible
This is a VERY interesting POV and video! I think I speak for many of us when I say that a chance to own an Oberheim has always been just out of reach for many reasons, the main being availability, reliability, and affordability. Now that Tom, Sequential, and Behringer have released a brand NEW version, I think it had nearly ALL of us salivating and pining to get one into our studio. The most affluent and spontaneous of us probably have one or two of the shiny new boards displayed proudly in their studio. I on the other hand have decided to wait and see if indeed it would be worth the investment.
I was one of those skeptical voices that didn't jump out of my seat when I heard the CZcams Demos. It sounded "nice" to be sure, but it just didn't WoW me like I had anticipated. HERE is the point I am taking forever to make - I think that the expectation > the sound. The sound is pretty much identical to the original, but I think that I had expected way, way too much from it. Oberheim has been such a cherished and ubiquitous instrument in the music that I fell in love with over the years - but the tools I've been using for sounds, Polybrute, Summitt, 3rd Wave, Pro 3 etc. have such a wide range of possibilities that it made little sense to shell out 5G's just for a few AMAZING sounds that could honestly get close to with my other synths. Especially being used in a mix. The Behringer now makes more sense, especially the polyphonic aftertouch. Time will tell though if these instruments will continue working properly or if they've been designed to get through a couple years and then fail after the "Big Push" of getting the first few batches is over.
Thanks for this video, it helped me realize that I've possibly been slightly hypnotized by the possibility of owning a legendary instrument, and not necessarily because I needed it. : )
Interesting topic Zach. That said, there is so much more to the OB sound than just "the fizzys". Take a good listen to "The Beautiful Ones" (Prince). You will hear OB's soaring on this song. Prince was a master of the OB's (and everything else for that matter). The OBs are such an iconic segment of the synth palette. Glad Tom got his name back, and partnered with Dave Smith for the OBX8 before Daves untimely passing.
Long waffling video just to say . . . "not sure the OB sound is for everyone".
Thank you
Absolutely.
Hahaha I was thinking the same thing
Offset by high quality frenetic chest-level hand flapping. Mesmerising.
Lmao thanks for saving me the watch. How condescending. As if we don't know what sounds we want to use lmao
Edit: watched it anyway and wow it's even worse than I thought it would be. Basically took 5 minutes to say "These oberheims sound like oberheims, I don't know if I like oberheims" lmaoo
The older the electronic components, the better the sound As the wine, the older it gets, the better the taste
For me, it's always been about the oscillators. From the SEM module to the 2-voice, 4-voice, and then the OB series... the oscillators were/are incredible sounding. Especially on big sawtooth type stuff - just H U G E. It cuts through glass and still sounds warm. It cuts through a mix like butter. For me, the OB series was unobtainium during my formative playing years. Now, I can finally afford to get one, and somehow I'm going to squeeze it into my studio. Besides sounding huge, the thing IS huge. Figuring out that later!
First of all you need to realize that when the first polyphonic analog machines appeared (Prophet-5 and the OB four voice), there had never been anything like that. EVER. And of course there were no affordable digital synths yet either. Hard core Oberheim fans (like me) have sentimental appreciation of these machines because we remember them when they first came out, and maybe more importantly we remember the great MUSIC that was made on them by actual creative talented musicians. The list is long so I won't bother listing them. When you say "do it for me", you sound like you are not a sound designer. It takes time and work to unveil their power. These machines were designed to be used as unique sound creating devices. Most of the synth consumers I have seen in the past two decades either don't program their own sounds (they base their opinion on the presets), or they cannot write or play music. Or both. If anybody thinks that all you have to do is plug in the synth and you're home free, they are hugely mistaken. The owner's manual that shipped with the Prophet-5 contained a comment from Dave Smith encouraging the user to create their own sounds. I distinctly remember the volumes between the presets on the P5 were all over the place. I wonder if they were trying to force us to learn the machine by doing that. These machines are only a tool. The presets are only a starting point. You have to work to get them to sing. It's like polishing a rock or wood. The longer you polish, the more it sparkles.
^ THIS. *
to add a bit:
One might have to spend years with these things and use them again and again to produce recordings - before knowing them very well.
My CS-60 and A6 took dozens of hours to get used to, because they were designed in idiosyncratic ways....Prophet-5 and Jupiter-8 are comparatively cake, as they are the start and end of the Gen-2 polysynths, wherein some standards had settled - and the MIDI/multi-timbral/AT+velocity complexity had yet to arrive.
Many many famous sounds of these synths on famous records have originally been presets maybe only slightly altered.
great comment!! The importance of taking one's time with anything in this time is greatly overlooked. The spoils of spending time on art and our tools are infinitely fulfilling. Anybody who reads this, ingest psilocybin ASAP! It will brighten every aspect of your life and destroy your neurosis :-]
YES. i just read a comment from someone saying they dont think the Oberheims have a recognizable "signature" sound compared to prophets or rolands....like what???? it is probably the MOST instantly recognizable and characterful synth sound i can think of. and i say this while being a DIE HARD fan of vintage rolands.
*laughs in D-50
I owned an Xpander back in the day. You could dial in some tones that were total duds, then 5 minutes later you've dialed in something that will blow your socks off and sound unlike any other synth in the world. Where as with other synths I feel like experience wise, you're not in dud territory you're still just shaping something. Hard to explain.
I have an OB-6, and it certainly has a lot of character. You can get some unexpected sounds out of it, but it takes some more fine tuning if you want to have it not sound fizzy and Oberheim-y. So you either like that or don’t.
BUT
I think a lot of the demos of the two new synths referenced here have been done on patches that are not “bread and butter” Oberheim sounds, which (in a pre-release situation) are what most people want to hear. I suspect that, once they’re in the wild, we’ll get more comprehensive demos.
very valid question. While exploring the OB sound I find I enjoy about 12 different presets immensly, but the overall sound in the others is not to my taste. So for me I ask, can I be satisfied with software emulation to get those 12 presets I love and put my hardware investment into something that hits the spot more generally. Thankfully there are a number of quality emulators out there to choose from.
In the soundtrack world, there almost was never an OB synth on any score by itself. Prophet 5 was everywhere. In fact, most of the time an Oberheim was on a soundtrack it was a SEM Four Voice...and on the rare occasion an OB synth was on a score, it was always accompanied by another synth like a Prophet (for example, Brad Fiedel’s first score for Terminator was OBXa, Prophet 10, Emulator 1, DMX drum machine). Tangerine Dream’s Edgar Frose was a big Oberhiem user but always played his OB next to a PPG.
I’ve come to the conclusion that the Oberheim sound is more of a “compliment sound” to be played alongside something else. Likely why a lot of rock bands used Oberheims to cut through the mix...while most New Wave bands used a Prophet 5.
You know Fiedel never even had MIDI back when he was composing T1?
He never even knew the time signature of his theme either, which ended up being 13/16 after someone worked it out, after he was asked if they could play it with a live orchestra.
Pkew what a mouthful lol.
Yeah that makes perfect sense; I think in the pop/rock world, the Prophet was the compliment sound and the OB or Jupiter for the more distinct parts.
The SEM was of course just that, a compliment to another synth. I think the layering is a big thing with many instruments.
The OB-X8 is essentially Sequential making the ultimate capstone Oberheim. So of course it is going for a classic vibe, and of course they aren't going to push it to pull double duty with their already existing line of synths. (They also partnered to manufacture the 3rd Wave.) So Sequential is really doing great work helping other synth designers bring their vision into physically produced reality. I think it helps to know what sort of filters and presets you are working with, because the OB-X8 can probably do a lot of cool things that aren't in as easy reach as it's default sounds. Plenty of famous synths like the DX7 or CS80 don't really shine until you've learned their quirks. Other synths are loved precisely for the cheap presets. It's all in the approach, any $5000+ synth in 2023 is going to be a pretty sweet piece of hardware if you can justify it. I'd probably get the 3rd Wave myself, but I'd enjoy the heck out of either.
at the end of the day they’re all niche instruments some with a bigger pallet like the prophet five or some with a very narrow pallet like the tb303. But really do you not have a Hammond b3 for that specific sound or do you expect vox continental sounds from it?
Good point, OB has that fizzy sound.
The people who want these synths know what they want. They want to sound like Geddy Lee. If it can deliver that sound, it will sell. IMHO
Right…. But don’t forget Prince, zawinul…. 💕☔️☔️☔️
Since you talk about niche synths, the Waldorf engine immediately came to mind, I was wondering if we ever get a Studiologic Sledge review.
I had the dilemma of choosing between a Prophet 6 and an ob-6. At the end of the day I chose the p6 because I felt that if I’m goin with Sequential I might as well go for the authentic prophet sound not their take on the oberheim sound.
Not gonna lie I felt kind of jaded when they reissued the p5 because that was the sound I was going for with my p6- but I’m happy I got the more modern machine with stereo outputs and effects and the extra voice.
I’m sure a lot of ob6 owners felt the same with oberheim now putting out the obx8 which seems to nail the oberheim sound better than the ob6.
@ghost mall " I don’t see it as a battle of P6 vs OB 6 "
for some it's simply a matter of limited space and/or funds.
the synths are also too alike to justify having both, to most people.
The OB6 is SEM based and nails that sound totally. And with polyphony.
Just watched Starskys 2nd Ob6 Obx8 comparison and I am pleased with how the Ob 6 faired!
Tom was involved with the OB-6, it wasn't just Sequential's take on an Oberheim. And it sounds like Sequential helped with the OB-X8 as well. The voice cards in the OB-6 are basically SEM cards. For me the big pluses of the OB-6 are the interface (knob per function, no menu diving just to access mixer levels), and the sweepable state variable filter, which is a big one for me that the OB-X8 doesn't have. But I think they are both great synths, and it is great to have options.
I LOVE THE OBERHEIM SOUND!
There’s a lot of perspective that’s hard to process around so many influences and presentations of any instrument. OB sound is definitely more focused and singular, giving the perception that it could be “tired” or past its prime, whatever one might choose. I think it depends how it is used in a full production, not solo videos on CZcams.
What happened to the behringer? Cant find it anywhere.
To produce, I'll continue with the plugins, but I like having a real synthesizer to play, the experience, the speed to improvise, test ideas, create... in short, the fun part. behringer is making fun accessible for everyone!
The Oberheim OB-X series of keyboards have been used in more famous rock band songs my bands cover than any other synth. Or at least, the cool sounds that stand out. I'm big into the sounds of Styx, Rush, Van Halen, Foreigner, Kansas,, etc.
It's been a dream to own an OB-X something. I came real close in the mid 90s to buying an OB-8. The main reason I didn't was it was too big to fit in my sedan's trunk with the hard case.
I've been running the OP-X VST for a while and other Oberheim VST's. The real question is will the OB-X8 produce any sounds I can't with in reason, reproduce closely in my bands?
Of the OB-X series, the new OB-X8 looks the most appealing to me. Includes all of the features of the X-, Xa & 8. If I could spend $5000 on a synth, the OB-X8 would likely be at the top of my list.
I think other competing famous analog synths are great for other types of music like synth pop, but the Oberheim OB series was king for rock sounds.
I know they won't but if Roland ever got off their butt and brought a genuine analog re-issue of the Jupiter 8, it would supersede all of these synths in popularity and sales.....but again they won't.....
OP-X Pro II .... is just an awesome VST. Glad you mentioned it.
I love the Oberheim sound. I own an OB6 and just love creating patches. A lot of holy sh*t moments for sure. I also own a Matriarch and its the same deal.
I have the same pair of synths. Have you tried poly-chaining them? Wondering how simple that is to pull off. Thanks.
@@jamesriedy6825 ????
@@SPAZZOID100 Hey there.
I've got the same pair also! Lol
Nena 99 luftballons spooky pad, simple minds don't you.... brassy stabs, Thomson twins general sound.
@ghost mall he always played an obx live. I'm pretty sure it's an oberheim obx. Listen to the ending of the song when he plays the higher notes. Sounds magical but creepy.
@ghost mall It was a Uranus Pad, pretty stinky.
Having played both new and vintage, would you say in your experience that the Obx8 is similar or spot on in sound to the vintage? Regardless of taste, the complaint I’m hearing more is that it doesn’t sound like the vintage ones.
No, it has a very modern analog sound - which is not a bad thing, just different.
@@asoundlab They’re are original OBX and OBXa owners online who claim they can’t tell the difference in sound between and original and an OBX8 so I’ll go by they’re opinion.
@@asoundlab I’m curious as to what you mean by “modern analog sound”? Also curious why you are “concerned”? Generally, I expect folks who will buy a $5k synth (like I just did) know exactly what they expect from it. If you’ve never had and programmed and made records with a vintage Oberheim synth, you probably should find someone who has and spend some time with them before you spend $5k. If you are concerned that in a time of VIs with every effect imaginable, modern modeled synths like the Roland line, Hydrasynth etc, someone is gonna pay $5k for ob-x8 and be disappointed that it doesn’t sprout wings and fly around their bedroom, then don’t be. They will return it. This synth is from a different mindset and those who know, know and will be happy to pay $5k for it. I’m not on fire to sell my vintage Obs, but if this box is what it purports to be; I will be pleased to use it for convenience. I will know weds by 11pm. Lol.
To me: the Oberheim iconic sound is that of the Minneapolis Sound! Prince, Jam+Lewis… these are universally loved tones in my perspective
Prince=Oberheim!
When i started with synths oberheim was my most loved synths. i loved the sounds all the time. is it niche? sushi was niche when i first ate it, but not in japan. i think it is the price, if it would be a synth for 500 usd the question would not come up.
Don't forget Rush's Subdivisions and Foreigner's Waiting for a Girl beautiful intro which can only come from an Oberheim-XA. And Tom Sawyer's intro explosion which cannot be replicated exactly except on an Oberheim because of the punch in the ADSR combine with the circuit closing the way it does.
Im curious to see how the poly aftertouch on the behringer could be used to crossfade two timbres 🤔 the patch morph on the polybrute is amazing & wonder how much of that the behringer could pull off
Spot on. I haven't heard a decent good sound from the Oberheim OB-X8. WHy is that?
Because the polyphonic OBs were a collection of 4 or 8 SEMs, you had each of the voices doing their own thing when played together which gave it a richer more animated sound. Kind of what would happen if you recorded chords by layering Minimoog parts.
As far as I know this is only true of the # Voices (2 Voice, 8 Voice, etc) and not OB-8 and OB-XA, Matrix, etc which used Curtis or SSM chips.
Though the OB X I am not sure about, I think it may have had a SEM variant inside.
Sold my OB-6 bought a Prophet 10 (module) Sold my Prophet X bought a Hydrasynth Deluxe and to fullfill my dreams I am almost sure that I'll buy the Oberheim OB-X8... and accept to not be able to buy anything more for a long time!
I think there are two things happening here. Oberheim does have a sound that people are familiar with, and it’s pretty warm, dreamy and thick and not everyone loves that. But there’s also the issue of how far you get into the instrument. It makes a lot of difference sounds if you learn how to use it. And a lot of those sounds are really strange and biting and unique. Real time exploration on an OB is a joy and can be very surprising.
This.
If one is just trying to create Oberheim sounds for unique use here and there, or in a cover band playing songs that used the warm, dreamy, thick textures, I see no reason why a UB-XA, at $1500 or so, you'll be golden. This likely will work for most people looking for an OB sound.
If you're hoping to create deep electronic textures, layering various synth sounds, be that in any sort of electronic music, be that pop, dance, film score, or old school Tangerine Dream layering of analog sounds you program yourself, and get heavy use out of, coughing up $5k for the OB-X8 could be worth every penny to you.
It is niche. I don't think anybody would deny that. But it's a damn nice one.
The thing you have to remember is that the these new instruments are not just just Oberheim instruments, this is a Sequential Circuits Dave Smith Collaboration with Oberheim. Along with their digital envelopes which I know people say doesn't affect the sound (I dont agree) these are two fundamentally different synthesizer philosophies coming together to make a new sound. Heck to Oberheim synths hardly sounded the same. This new sound is not going to get you the "iconic" Oberheim sound, if there is one, and an old broken Oberheim is not going to get you full picture.
For me, the ultimate Oberheim sound is found in a youtube video called "Oberheim 8 Voice" by Gforce Software.
The "Oberheim OB-Xa Analog Synthesizer (1981) "Oberfett Xa"" video by RetroSound also gives my favorite demonstrations of the raw sound of the instrument.
For me the new Synths for some reason doesn't capture the same virility, perhaps that might change when I get to play it one day.
Cheers to opening up uncomfortable conversations✌
I think the fundamental problem with old synths is simply they make a few great truly iconic sounds, but very little else. As an owner of quite a few, I can honestly say that wonderful though they are, these machines are remarkably limited. The manufacturers were aware of this and digital synths soon replaced them. This lead to the development of new and evermore versatile synthesis technology, which today offers us so much more than any analogue system could dare to dream.
The Oberheim OB-X8 is a small production instrument for rebooting the brand, suitable for a few customers who can afford and will appreciate it, but it’s likely to hold a Prophet 5 rev4 vs Take 5 relationship to an upcoming lower price instrument from Focusrite that will show how they intend to update the brand for the future.
They already have a lower priced model in the OB-6 keyboard/desktop. The OB-X8 might say Oberheim on it, but it's still a Sequential collaboration under the Focusrite umbrella. Other than the desktop model which has now been released I wouldn't hold my breath for something cheaper. If I were Focusrite I'd be looking at another 2-Voice reissue and a modern take on the Matrix/Xpander
I just don't see Focusrite using these premium brands for cheaper products. It makes no business sense
@@oblitafier You’re probably right. Would love to see a modern Matrix/Xpander class of instruments. Something following up on the legacy of the Matrix 1000 would be interesting as a more affordable product, but they might reserve the brand for the higher end. Plus manufacturers seem disinterested in making multitimbral modules these days.
When I think of the Oberheim, I think of Shuki Levy and his 1980s cartoon and television soundtracks, especially the Hitchhiker, which always had these dark, emotional sounding synth patches all over it. It's like this super moody but 1970s sci fi sound that's ideal for scoring movies and television shows of a certain period. Even if it came out in 1980, its aesthetic is still rooted in the decade before it. Either you want that particular sound and aesthetic or you don't, I guess. I love it and it's the holy grail of synths for me personally -- nothing sounds like the ob-xa, imo -- but other than some Prince records, I don't think it's necessarily a retro pop music sound that most people would identify.
I think this is a legit gripe. I watch some of these vids and think; wow, some of these don't sound so hot. But then i see one and say; now i've heard something i havn't heard before. I wonder what knob he clicked? But i think it all depends on how they changed the particular sound. Whether they left it untouced and familiar or whether you try and tweak the sound. I agree, now i have said to myself; if i played a synth and could afford one, i'd buy an OB-6. Then i also thought i'd probably get bored with it. But i vacillate between the Prophet 6 and the OB 6. I also see some wind up getting both because there are just some things one does that the other doesn't sound wise. One last point, alot of the pop records were produced using the stock sounds, but according the Jimmy Jam of the Time and so on. He says they would layer sounds from different sources. So again i think it all depends on how much customizing went into the sound. I love em just as well. But i'd get a Prophet 5 rev 3 or 4.
How would anyone get a good idea how these things sound at the namm show. On those headphones?
Hardly a good test. Gotta get ‘‘em in the studio.
Agreed !! The floor of the NAMM show is SO noisy.
True the oberheim sound is a particular owing to the filters. It's variation is limited but what it does is very ear friendly. Behringer now releases the ubxa and it's sales will probably be far greater than the original. It's double the power of the original with poly after touch I believe.
Synths for me need to be far more versatile. But I agree your question is really cutting thru the hype.
I was more concerned about you. No videos for I dont know how many months, good to have you back :)
I am one of those who really love the Oberheim sound, but I dont love the traditional sounds from classics, I love the melancholic sound that Oberheim can produce, I love the high end grit and state variable sound and bandpass.
It’s like any instrument and the internet. First you need to find the instrument that inspires you, second, you can’t trust the internet. Just because the internet hypes something up doesn’t mean it will inspire you. I like my Prophet REV2 because it has a more modern sound and has a lot of power. Most prefer the sound of the Prophet 5. .But I’m satisfied with my purchase. I also have a Moog Subsequent 37. I’m sure a Minimoog sounds better. But I’m satisfied with my purchase. We can’t assume that if the internet says product A sounds better, that product B won’t work for us. And we can’t assume because a certain instrument didn’t inspire you that you can conclude that it will only be something niche. Maybe for you, but look how analog and digital teeters and totters throughout the decades. Analog was hot… now we’re shifting back to digital with these new wavetable synths etc. hardware is hot. Then things will shift back to plugins. Sometimes in this community people spend more time chasing after the latest technology instead of actually writing music. I know that happens with me sometimes. Ignore the opinions, try the gear, and choose the stuff that makes your heart skip!
The "OB" sound to my ears is defined by a handful of artists/songs. Styx did a lot with the OB SEMs, Prince used OB synths in most of his early stuff and of course VH - 1984. Most Styx and Prince sounds max the filter cutoff, but if you lower the cutoff, you can get some nice mellow tones. When you max the filter, a P5 and an OB sound different for sure. But, if you don't max the cutoff, they can get much closer. Their resonance responses are also different, but an OB can get closer to a P5 than the other way around if you tweak the filter. Of course if you add the Rev-1 filter mod to an older Rev 3 P5, it can get sound very OB. ;) The full on OB sound may not be perfect for all songs, but the OB doesn't "have" to sound that way.
I have an OB-X8, and I can most certainly say the sound is for me.
I’m concerned about Will from inbetweeners
The sound in the Anderton's Behringer UBXA was really absolutely atrocious, something was definitely wrong there. The rest, of the Behringer, and of course the OB-X8, sound really good. J3PO's video ode to the OB-XA sounded completely awesome. I noticed True Cuckoo didn't seem completely taken by the OB-X8 either, particularly on depth of programming, so it's not just you. Price aside, I'd take a Polybrute over an OB-X8, any day, I would get so much more out of it.
Im still more awestruck by the Matriarch ! The sound , and the patching opportunities.... The Sub 37 is also FAN EFFING TASTIC sounding ....
@@MikkelGrumBovin yes, exactly, I'd originally wrote Polybrute AND a Matriarch ... just the size consideration of two full size keyboards. But absolutely, size permitting, for modern analogue, that's what I would buy, space permitting. Because for 5k you can get both for near the price of an OB-X8, and cover so much analogue ground. Another option is to get a Matriarch and add a side skiff along side it. Spending 2k loads of interesting modern modulation and effects modules, XOAC Zadar, Maths, Pamela's, Zoia Euroburo for effects chains. Raw power + modern processing. Or add that quad cloud terrarium wavetable oscilator from Syntech, plus an 8 channel mixer to patch an extra set of digital oscillators to patch into the Matriarch CP3 mixer inputs.
@@compucorder64 Funny you should mention it, i just recieved my downfall, a Niftycase , a Pamela, a rampie,and a Plaits for the fuck of it , as its always was my danger dream to hook up my Grandmother, my Erebus, NYX, O-Coast , Microfreak, and Behringer 2600 to a Eurorack skif, And THEN.... The Matriarch ... and the only reason i havent GOT it yet ... is a deadly catch of GAS (Which got me a Deepmind,a Rise61 ,a Digitakt and Tone, a Cobalt8,a Medusa, an Opsix, a MEGAfm, a plethora of Vintage keys ,mixers and amps, pedals like ZOIA and the everpresent Microcosm, all kind of old and new samplers, loæpers and everything in between,like the S2000 and the Boomerang,
too many verbs incl. The Bluesky , the Specular Tempus, the Empress Reverb , and a gazzillion obscure guitar/synth pedals ....and im a goddam bassplayer , who fell in love with the Grandmother , and fell into the $#@!*¿☆ Rabbithole... ... ... !
@@MikkelGrumBovin Grandmother is the gateway drug :) Mutable Rings was what hooked me in, a few years ago. Keyboard makers are missing a track not adding patchpoints to all their synthe, and selling matching cases with custom modules
by the way - the Grandmother is - by any fair amount , the best sounding synth i ever played .... even the goddam springreverb sound unbelieveble gorgeous , - - so if i can get FOUR Grannys , with A STEREO DELAY, and a fullfledged patch option - damn , its a hard hard choice between the lovely PolyBrute and the Matriarch ... and i have a feeling that theyll both end up in my homestudio ..... (unless that skif gets me in a stranglehold first ! ¨) 🙄
An Oberheim designed to sound like an Oberheim, well, who would have thought...
Synthwave is still a very strong and growing genre. I think the new Oberheims could be very popular. I'm an amateur and want to sound more original so the latest from Korg is where I'm at both with affordability and originality.
Like you said, you have to have an ear for it. I own many synths and my favorite are the Oberheims, OBXa, OB-SX, Xpander, Matrix 6R, (3) Matrix 1000's chained and more than likely, will eventually buy the OB-X8 just for the effort that was put into designing it, I already have the sound. I believe any analog synth with the 2 and 4 pole filters can be adjusted to sound like any analog synth, including Oberheims. Many musicians I've spoken with suggest the Korg Prologue 16 voice and the fact it has the low frequency boost, makes it just as fat sounding as a vintage discrete circuit synth like the OB-X and Jupiter 8. If you like or grew up with groups like Rush that centered most of the fill sounds derived from Oberheims, the sound is imbedded in your brain. Similar to old vintage stereo receivers with old style transformers or magnetic turntable cartridges' compared to compressed digital MP3 or MP4 files.
There is a difference between old and new capacitors just by the way they were manufactured. Most are banned because of toxic chemicals used to produce them. All these things change the timbre of the instrument, like acoustic instruments, you change one vital component and the sound changes. You can get most synths to sound the same if you work at it, some patches take months to create and sometimes becomes part of an iconic song you hear over and over. The more circuits, the more creative the sound. The trick is to make that sound likeable to as many ears as possible. Cheers!
I have one word for the people who think they don't like the Oberheim sound... Prince!
Zach, I think that you may be a bit critical. Having grown up with the Prophets and the Oberheims, I can appreciate that warm, thick power of older analog units. Obviously, there are many who agree, as can be witnessed when looking at what the old original units are going for. But now, you can now have that sound, with a much better keyboard and build quality, for half the price. If you like that sound (and they do have their own sound), the new recreations are amazing. For Oberheim, witness the synth sounds on Weather Report songs (“Birdland”), or some of the amazing synth sounds of Lyle Methany (“If I Could”, on the Full Circle album by the Pat Methany Group)…very thick and warm. The list of Prophet enhanced songs from the late 70’s-80’s is even longer. Those instruments had their own set of sounds that still to my ears sound unique…and make the purchase of one of the new units a great option (provided that you can afford it).
I have another question. What if Van Halen's "jump" was recorded with a Casio CZ101? Would it have been a flop because of the "bad" or "incorrect" sound? Or would it have been the same hit as we know it now, because its not really the sound that made the song, but the synth riff? In that case, maybe the CZ101 would be one of the most expensive synths, and maybe everybody want a casio because of its sound in... Jump?
I had the same thinking than u .
Nobody will pay more than 4000 USD for a CS80 if it wasn’t on the legendary Vangelis soundtracks
I like the sound, I associate it with Japan more than Prince though. I have two Moog mono synths at present, the 25 and 37, and I am giving deep thought as to the polysynth I choose. Likely the ob-xa or prophet 5 as the Moog one is now too expensive. If I go for the ob-xa I might sell the subsequent 25 for the pro 3.
IT’S YOU!
Just joking....
To each their own. For me something like the PolyBrute creates a close enough simulation to many other synths,
that it’s a budget minded dream machine. Some people don’t have the option to buy every latest and greatest synths that
come out every other month. The OBs sound great, but isn’t going to be in my den.
What speakers did you listen to it through or headphones, that can make a huge difference. Oberheim chips are super warm & full. That's why so many keyboardists used them in the 80's to cover synth parts in their bands. BTW, Prince used it all over his songs, he's considered a musical genius. Try listening to it through high end studio monitors or headphones.
Have never heard anyone say they don’t like the sound of Oberheim stuff generally. It tends to be fat and brassy, and the pads are gorgeous. Making a bad sound with any instrument is the fault of the musician not the tool.
Being an older guy the real obx and prophet 10 synths cannot be duplicated. The sounds & functionality were special. Havent heard anything new touch those classic synths. When someone duplicates the beginning of Tom Sawyer properly ill be impressed. Just dont think it can happen using modern parts.
they're synthesizers. Literally machines using electronic laws to produce controlled, exact sound. They're not magic. The main issue is just recreating the sound and understanding how it was programmed and played.
The Prophet-5 rev 4 sounds identical to the originals, and has a LOT of new features.
If I remember correctly, Geddy used effect pedals along with the Obx on Tom Sawyer. Plus going through a PA &/or mixing board, the sound is manipulated. In other words, it won’t sound “exactly” like the original….it simply can’t!
I think 2 things are true. 1. The infamous UB-Xa demo from Andertons is truly awful sounding in ways that have nothing to do with “Oberheim having a ‘niche’ sound.” And 2. I do think Oberheim synths have a lovely sound which-for me-rarely finds its way into a track. Oberheim synths scream “Hey look at me, I’m an Oberheim! Ain’t I yuuuuge?!” As gorgeous as they sound in their own, they’re usually just a bit too rich for me. Sort of like every dish is some sort of old-fashioned French concoction with a lot of heavy cream in it.
There is no "perfect sound". Everybody is different, and different tools do different jobs, and you know, absolutely nothing wrong with that, it's honestly very beautiful. I think of huge brassy pads and layers of modulation with Oberheim, it's not a "subtle" synth but that's the key to it's charm! i think people are just missing the forest for the trees
The perfect sound is the one that gives you chills.
what you're saying is pretty much spot on, i am a huge synth nerd. i own mostly everything from Yamaha FM to Nord to Roland Analog, DSI and some boutique stuff, but i just don't like the moog sound, it doesn't speak to me and i don't know why
having said that, i just bought an obx8, i love it
Oberheim has created the best synths to my ears. Abstrakt Instruments VS-1 based on the OB-X is the best modern take I've heard on CZcams, the demos gave me goosebumps, but they've had massive delays in receiving all the parts.
For me it’s Roland. Roland is iconic and spawned several genres of music like psytrance, italo disco, etc.
My theory is ~20% of the addressable market is Oberheim to the core, knows what they are buying, and desire the legendary Oberheim sound. The other ~80% is the broader synth market of users who want to shop for something much cooler than their current Fantom, Montage, etc., and will have to decide on a modern analog synth. They’ll read SOS reviews, watch CZcams demos, clips from NAMM, see the price tag, and get what they can afford.
Very interesting this, apart from jump, the oberheim sound isn't associated with a music genre like other classic analogues.
In early '80s funk and new wave OBs were everywhere...you probably weren't around then :)
@@shaft9000 I was around. Question is, did it define the sound of a genre? It was a bit tough for 80s polys, a lot sounded similar because of the shared ssm and cem chips. All great machines though.
@@stuartcrossen2723 it defined the Minneapolis Sound. Prince, Morris Day and The Time, Jesse Johnson, Jam and Lewis. Those keyboards are as vital to that sound as the Linn LM1 and Linndrum were
The SEM Midi reissue I got a few years ago just blew my mind. So, that is the yardstick I would measure my expectations for poly Oberheims against. Ideally, I woud have an 8 voice, or 4 voice.
Good question. I think all instruments are like this. Always will be disagreements re: taste. And yes, I think the OB synths might be a more pigeonholed. Very swirly and lush. But when your track needs that they sure great!
I have an OB6 and two SEMs. I think the Oberheim sound is beautiful and certainly different from the Moog sound (which I also love).
To be honest I think this video is a click bait to some extent.
i had a Matrix 6 and didn't get it. now i want it back
I totally agree. I had the OB-X8 back in the early 80's, and it was great, but back in the 80's, thats all we knew!!
Now it's 2023, and though it's so FANTASTIC to have these great synths back, better then ever. I just can't get around paying $5000 for a particular sound set! Now, if money was no object, I guess it would be a cool, nostalgic, throwback thing to have, and every once in a while, take it to a gig for shits and giggles, but I always need a Swiss Army synth.
Ya know, I kind of feel bad saying all that, but that's just the long and short of it, for a working, Joes Bar & Grill musician.
If someone doesn't connect with an instrument and how it sounds or the way they interface with it...it's just not for them. Jack doesn't owe anyone interested in the OB-X8 to "do the synth justice" because the synth was used in well known songs. He didn't connect with it.
I doubt people go to a local music store to buy an instrument, and make a decision to buy the instrument based on how a store associate plays the instrument.
I think of Oberheims and Moogs as having a specialized, niche sound, while the Prophet sound, and to some extent the Juno sound tends to find its way into more places in a mix. What's interesting, however is that the tone of both Oberheim and Moog seems to invoke a certain level of polarized passion... those that love them REALLY love them to the point that they almost don't want to play anything else. Meanwhile Prophets are almost universally adored by all. Me, I'm a Prophet and Oberheim guy, but when it comes to Moog they are okay (I own a couple) but I'm not really a ladder filter guy and prefer the punch of a Pro One bass sound to a Moog bassline.
I recently got an OB-X8 desktop -- it definitely captures everything Oberheim lovers want, with 100% authentic Oberheim sound. Some of the VSTs are good, but won't quite get you to the authentic OB sound. The OB6 is a fantastic synth (I have one and it will never be sold), but quite not the same vintage Oberheim sound... this is the real deal. However, what's surprising is how much versatility is available within the tones that come out of it.
Now, because of the title I have to mention it.. the UB-XA, in the demo's I've heard sounds profoundly terrible. The quest for the "real Oberheim sound" seems to be somewhat elusive and they are having trouble finding it, just as VSTs have failed to faithfully reproduce it.
There are really only two options currently for the true OB sound... the OB-X8, or a vintage model. I was not brave enough or affluent enough to purchase the three vintage units I would need to get all of the filter types and features of the OB-X8, but I envy those who do.
I had similar thoughts after owning an OB6. This conversation reminds me of my Farfisa Compact, by comparison to other combo organs it doesn’t suit as many styles of music, it’s harder to make it fit into a track, you almost have to make the track fit around it….. but its got its iconic sound which is great, but not as flexible….. maybe that’s the key word, flexibility
can't wait to get my hands on the Behringer UB-XAcSynth Kings really handles it well.
I find this dilemma somewhat funny because I always liked the Oberheim sounds (even the broken one you did a video on), but I’ve always thought Prophets sound uninspiring and generic 😁
this is exactly it. prophets aren't loved for having a signature sound, they are loved because they sit so nicely and politely in the mix. they don't rattle the cage very much, which is great for some people's workflow and i totally respect that.
Oberheims on the other hand demand to be heard. nothing else sounds quite like them. i definitely prefer synths like this that have a character of their own. they are unmatched for me in terms of lushness.
"People Music" on Herbie Hancock's "Secrets" album (1976)---8 minutes of sublime funky R & B music, with all kind of guitars, drums, Moogs, ARPs, Rhodes electric piano, a clavinet, and an analog atmospheric ocean of Oberheim polysynth SEM sound all through it---deepens quite profoundly around 2:41, and 4:56, into something totally amazing, and fading so raw and warm-sounding at the same time, that it feels like sonic anesthetic to me. I love their sound, and sound architecture. I think it will appeal to many ears over many years!
One thing to consider synths like the Juno 106 or the Korg Polysix were not seen as much in professional studios in the 80s. The Jupiter 8 was the exception. What you did see was Oberheim and Sequential Circuits. Most of the “classic synths” that have risen in price over the years were not much in demand all thru the 90s. At that time a Roland Juno 6/60/106 could generally be had for less than $500. The popular tech at that time was romplers. The Roland JV series, Korg M1, E-mu Proteus etc. and samplers like the Akai S series even Ensoniq ASR 10. And after the late 70s Rock/Pop pretty much abandoned the Moog, what kept it alive was it’s use is R&B music. It was not until the late 90s when the fetish of Analog synths started to come in.
Honey I shrunk the synths! 🤣Actually, I think you hit on something here, I also played the OB-X8 at NAMM and thought it sounded fantastic- for what it does. I find myself in agreement with you, and I am of an older generation who heard these synths on songs I grew up with. If Oberheim comes out with a desktop version I may reconsider it, but I ended up preordering a Groove Synthesis 3rd Wave. Personally I would love a Jupiter 8 reissue, but I am not holding my breath with regard to Roland...
Many of us old-timers cut our teeth on Prophets, Obies, Minis, and the like… Part of it is nostalgia… But (IMO) it’s all about being able to understand synthesis and the instrument to get the most out of it and be able to tweak the knobs to obtain the desired sound that you hear in your head. I have read interesting interviews with Michael Boddicker and Suzanne Ciani about what they were called upon to do regarding sound design. Something like “the sound of ping pong balls underneath the wings of a bird” comes to mind… (I can’t remember the exact quote) But these people, and many talented voice programmers at synth manufacturers, could do it. The old analogs were far easier to learn about synthesis compared to the later menu-driven machines. Twist a knob; something happens… We are coming full circle to that method. The possibility of infinite creations is there. Look at the number and variety of patches that were crammed into the Matrix 1000… These new entries let you get your hands dirty and explore sound. Will they reproduce a Steinway D ? No, but that isn’t their role. They may come as close (for what they are) as analog permits, but it is only impressionistic… These companies are placing the block of marble before you and putting the hammer and chisel in your hands… -the rest is up to you!
✌🏻😎🎹🌴🌞
Zach, now that the UB-XA is hitting the streets, maybe you should revisit this topic. I bought a used one for $1k and it exceeds expectations and stands on its own merits as a 16-voice bi-timbral polysynth with a poly aftertouch keyboard. New for $1200 vs. $4k+ for 8-voice Oberheim deserves some discussion.
It's all preference kids... if you can make music that you and/or people want to hear, most importantly love with it, then THAT'S IT! Just another music making TOOL.....
Behringer inspired machine hasn't come out a year after this video and I got my doubts it will be here in another year either
rick moranis has a synth channel?
🤣
There is no problem at all. The OBX8 is selling very well, while the UBXA is nowhere to be found.
Ultimately, these are very different synths for totally different markets.
It's fair if you don't vibe with it as much as other synths - some people want VOX, others want Marshall. That's why having diversity in the market is a good thing.
For me, it gets me to peak Quincy Jones - early MJ/Prince. It gets me that early Madonna sound. You can't get that sound with anything else. Personally I have waited for this release for a long time, and was a few weeks away from buying the Abstrakt (which I may well still do). I played the OB-6 and it didn't grab me, so i didn't buy it. The raw oscillators on the X8, to my ears, sound much more like the real deal. I've heard that sound too many times not to know it.
OB-6 will surprise you with the effects off. Total different beast. Just sayin ;)
The OB6 sounds incredible. I own one.
Great question Zach. I think what people are seeing with the OB-X8 is a combination of factors: mainly terribly uninspiring demos - many of which aren’t even remotely musical - using terrible presets that don’t reflect “the Oberheim sound.”
An OB can sound captivatingly warm, lush, and beautiful, but for whatever reason, many people haven’t focused on those kinds of sounds that they are known for. I also know that several sound designers who had protypes just happened to focus more on bizarre effect type sounds rather than the classic OB stuff. I think once people have units in their hands, you will start hearing really great demos. I know I will certainly be making some!
I think another aspect of your question may be; How many people have actually had their hands on a real OB synth... Personally I'm spoiled, coming from the right generation having played a bunch of Oberheim and Sequential synths in my life, and I am just waiting for Behringer to give me the opportunity to swipe my credit card, total no-brainer. On the other hand, 8 voices for 5-6 grand, is imho a bit steep even if if I'm very sure the "real deal" will sound great too.
I'm still waiting for Behringer to bring out their Prophet 600 clone. I will certainly be buying their Prophet 5 clone also even though I have a Rev 3 P5. The price of an Oberheim is ridiculous for the little it can do.
I think one aspect is that few people have an experience of playing the original Oberheims. Most people expect them to sound like what they have heard on records, with compression, EQ and effects applied, sometimes doubled with itself or other synths. The raw sound without effects is not that impressive as a Prophet V raw.
This idea that everything is iconic, and so you have to like everything, it's not particularly real: more marketing and reverence for the past that anything else. Fun fact: I was able to copy 1:1 the "iconic" jump sound with a Virus TI. It sounded identical to the album song. Not surprisingly: it's a very simple patch, detuned saws really, with a smogaborg of effects. Also the fact that you can emulate the solo sounds of Vangelis with almost every synth on earth that has a sawtooth wave, a filter, aftertouch response and a built in reverb, should be illuminating: it's not the sounds of the synth we want but the prestige we think we get from the ability of reproducing already overused presets.
I think the special thing about Oberheim is that the sound doesn't get thinner at high resonance. This is of course ideal for fat basses with a lot of resonance. I don't know why it is, but I think the Oberheim Two Voice Pro Special Edition sounds the best, as good as the new Oberheim OB-X8 may sound.
As for the Sequential Prophet 5, the only thing special about it is that it was one of the first polyphonic analog synthesizers. But I don't like the sound of it at all. It's actually strange because the sound of the Sequential Pro One is really excellent. I also like the sound of some of the newer Sequential. The Pro-3, Take 5 and Trigon-6 really sound great.
Of course, it's all a question of personal taste and it also depends on what kind of music you want to make with it and what kind of sounds you need. Personally, these synthesizers are far too expensive for me. But I would probably buy it if money wasn't an issue.
Luckily, there are a lot of great synthesizers available these days in the low-price segment, whether analog monophonic/polyphonic or digital. The Modal Cobalt 5S, Korg Minilogue XD or Waldorf Blofeld, for example, simply sound sensationally good. Even much better than some really good high-end synthesizers.
I am far more excited about the third wave, wider sound possibilities