The UAD Neve Dynamics Collection REVIEW & SHOOTOUT with a VINTAGE 2254/E and 33609/C HIDDEN FEATURES
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- čas přidán 5. 07. 2024
- This is a review the New UAD Neve Dynamics Collection.
It also features an A-B-C-D Test between the Plug-ins, a Vintage Neve 2254/E and a Neve 33609/C!
Is this the ULTIMATE Review?
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Time Table:
0:00 Introduction
0:30 What are Diode Bridge compressors?
1:50 The 2254/E Review and overview of all (hidden) features!
2:55 The Sound of the 2254/E Circuitry
5:10 The Sound of the 2254 Limiter
6:20 2254 Limiter Shootout
7:20 The 2254 Compressor section: Overview of all (hidden) features
10:57: Features not available on the Hardware Unit
11:40 The Sound with the HPF on the side-chain
12:50 The Sound with reduced Headroom
13:55 Parallel Compression example
15:50 The 2254 Compressor and Limiter Shootout!
18:10 The track overview: Mic selection, EQ and Dynamics
19:30 The 33609 Review and overview of all (hidden) features!
21:30 The Sound of the 33609/C Circuitry
22:55 The Sound of the 2254 vs 33609 Circuitry
23:45 The Sound of the 33609 Limiter
24:46 The 33609 Compressor section: Overview of all (hidden) features
27:35 The Sound with the HPF on the side-chain
29:26 The Sound with reduced Headroom
30:10 Parallel Compression example
30:33 THE SHOOTOUT !!
34:17 My Conclusion
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Hi, I'm Peter Claes, and welcome to my Masterclaes® Channel.
This CZcams channel is designed to improve your knowledge about sound and help you make better mixes.
I specialise in sharing my knowledge gathered in the 30 years of experience in live sound and studio work.
Artists I have worked for are: Arsenal, Hooverponic, Axelle Red, The Simple Minds,The Human League, CPeX, Milk Inc Live, The Night of the Proms, Millionaire, The Sore Losers and many more. In the past 25 years I have shared my knowledge through my Masterclaes® program.
Video's published on this channel are about mixing in the box, working with the band, microphones, Mixing desks, Rig Rundowns of my studio, Product reviews and much more !
On this channel I also make fun and entertaining mixing content based on crazy and sometimes “gimmicky” equipment. I like to cut through the marketing hype about products and I like to give you the honest truth about audio equipment.
If you enjoy the channel make sure you hit subscribe and also tap the notification bell so that you are always notified when I release a new video. - Krátké a kreslené filmy
Im still watching now but this is a great comparison. Also great detail on explaining features.
The sound on those drums.. wow. Its like butter flavored audio.
also Peter, your analyzing breakdowns are just spot on. just Increasable.
Thanks for the positive comments! If you like my Video's please smash that THUMBS UP and SUBSCRIBE to my Channel to appreciate my work!
@@MasterclaesVideos Its me Charlie. i subscribed like 2 months ago
@@MasterclaesVideos can you do one against the lindell 254e from plugin alliance against you're 2254e hardware
this channel has quickly become one of my favs for production
Brilliant. This should be the gold standard of hardware/plugin shoot-outs! Thank you, maestro.
Thank you! Please subscribe and spread the word!
It's THE gold standard!!
The analog 2254 was very pleasing to listen to. Sometimes by adjusting the HR, I can get a more "analog" character with the plugins, but YMMV. The 33609 plugin sounded spot-on, and it's nice that the plugin also has a slow attack option if you want the track to breathe a little more.
Videos are getting better and better! Thanks!
Excellent review and shootout! I appreciate that you call out all of the little hidden features
Thanks for the positive comment! If you like my Video's please smash that THUMBS UP and SUBSCRIBE to my Channel to appreciate my work!
That s my favourite channel in audio plugins and gears comparing! You are the best! Thank you!
Thank you for the compliment Andras. More video’s coming soon!
Thank you Peter this was absolutely excellent. Please keep it up these are priceless videos. P.s. I made the same face you did when the bottom end punches in! So good.
Great Review, helps a lot. Thank you!
Brilliant video, thank you for making this video Peter
Great video thank you! Amazing selection of gear you have, the plugins are really great but... your hardware 2254 and 33609 are simply magical!
Hi, thanks for the comment! Which one would you choose? Plugin or hardware?
Thank you for sharing your insight and wisdom. I do find your clips highly educational. Cheers.
Many thanks! Hit that like and subscribe button please!!
Great review Peter ! I can agree 100% with your findings after listening to your shootout. I hope you will do a lot more "in-depth" UAD/Hardware comparisons in the future. I really enjoyed this one, and learned some things along the way. I am looking forward to see the next. Thanks!!
Hey Jef! Thanks for the positive comment! Best wishes! Pé
Again, great review/shootout!
Best honest and anti snake oil reviews on youtube today!! hope you keep on this track!! greetings from Argentina!
Excellent demonstration - best I’ve seen. Thank you, sir.
Hi david, thank you for the comment! What was your favorite?
Excellent work Peter. Really helpful.
I am VERY NEW to all of this...
...And like the (i'm certain) tens of millions of have joined the audio production community, have an overwhelming amount of information to figure out.
With that stated, and Universal Audio being one of two Interfaces which I recently purchased while knowing nearly nothing about the analog or digital versions of any of these pieces of equipment... I find that this video with you explanations and audio examples were EXTRAORDINARILY helpful as I attempt to figure out which plugins I will need most urgently from the current sale, and which I may want to purchase during the sales in the future.
I will be reviewing more of your videos in the near future, hoping that you are just as consistently helpful and informative in those videos as well (and if I am lucky, perhaps you will have like a top 5 or top 10 plugins which you recommend for producers in different musical genres... Very helpful for "noobs" like myself).
In the meantime, I have subscribed AND activated ALL notifications so that I can slowly begin to build my knowledge base with you.
P.S. I needed Microphones so I picked up 2 analog and a Townsend Labs modeled Mic so that I can learn to use those as well... I believe that should be enough for now since I will be producing "in the box" for the foreseeable future. But, the point is that I am hoping that you also have coverage of the microphones which they carry and the extensions which they share with Universal Audio.
Very very informative. Great video! Thanks!
Thank you! Please don't forget to like, subscribe and hit that bell button!
Great channel! Hopefully much more content coming.
Excellent comparision, thank you!
Thank you for the comment!
Your shootouts are excellent - thanks
Thank you! Please don't forget to like, subscribe and hit that bell button!
Hardware 2254 was definitely my favourite, really nice punch/smack on the close mics. More low mid impact. But I'll just stick to my UAD ones :)
The plugin is like 90% there. That fullness in the lower mids is a common difference when comparing most analog-modeled plugins to their hardware counterparts. For all intents and purposes, you're getting a very good and very useful sound with the plugin that is comparable to the hardware. That said, there's no denying that hardware in most cases sounds noticeably "better," even if it's an aural preference that comes out of familiarity developed over time to find a certain sound "more right" or "better."
That's all of a nonsense word salad until you make them null lol.
@@kalidesuyou can't make them null. first of all-aliasing, second-pre/post ringing, third-phase shift. also the compressor action will never be the same. i'm not saying digital sucks, i'm just saying digital sucks at pretending to be analog.
Great stuff! Really enjoying your content! If it would be of interest to you I would love to see an awesome shootout like you do of all the different 33609 emulation (UA, IK Multimedia, McDSP) and 2254 (UA, Lindell, ..?)!
Superb..great work
thanks for this comparison! your last line was the most significant for me "we are not gonna hear this difference when we mix the record"
Great video.. great channel !!!
This comparison is very well done and I learned a lot about Neve compressors. Many thanks!
Thank you! I always try to put some knowledge in the tests. Have you seen my other video’s ?
@@MasterclaesVideos I've already subscribed and will start watching today!
Excellent video, I've waited a long time for someone to do this 4 way shootout. I've always wanted to hear the 2254 and 33609 side by side. Honestly hoping you do a follow up with other sources including on the main bus to hear where else these units excel.
I'll keep that in mind! Thank you! Please don't forget to like, subscribe and hit that bell button!
NICE ONE! very interesting!!
Thank you for doing this helpful shoot out. The 33609 has more of a snap and clarity over the plug ins. I would seriously consider getting that unit. It sounds great.
Thanks for the comment!! More content coming soon!
I only use hardware. I’m really surprised how far plug ins have come! I’d say these examples are about 75% there.
Great review ! There's almost no content available on the 33609 on CZcams, here's an interesting shootout that conforts me in buying the hardware version. I use and love the UAD plugin but now that i hear all these harmonics in the HW, it will be very hard to live without these ! Thanks Peter !
Thanks for your positive comment! Dont forget to subscribe! 🙏
@@MasterclaesVideos i did
I really enjoyed that; thank you. My only problem is that I now want a 2254.
A studio in town where I mixed had a 33609 in the rack, and I remember getting fantastic drum buss results with it, really radical, fast moving GR. I don’t quite hear that from the plug in your demo. I even loved the repeatability of switches, one less thing to think about, as I used my drum faders to get the threshold I wanted. I miss that box.
Would love to see more of this content from you :)
I’m taking a sabatical from live mixing so more content coming up!
Thank you so much! One of the best comparison videos I've seen and heard.
Keep your hardware! It's amazing!
Yet, the plugs are quite impressive. 80%?
I'm hearing more phatness from the 2254 and more focus from the 33609.
And then simply more goodness from the analog versions.
I actually use the plugins on live recordings where i need them to absorb the room 😂
Excellent review. Just suscribed yo your channel.
Thank you!
I own the hardware 2254/e pair and I enjoyed this thank you Peter.
Hey! Drums sound GREAT!! Thank you for giving a mic rundown! I'm curious what you used for preamps while tracking the drums? Were you just using unison preamps into the Apollo, or outboard preamps? Cheers!
It was recorded using a Yamaha QL5 with a Rio3224D rack!
Dear Mr. Claes. We love your channel! Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience with the world!
Do you think the UAD 2254/E Dual emulation might be wider than the 2254 E (single) you tested and closer to the real deal?
Hi Ari, I did that test too and the result was identical between the Dual and the Stereo version. To be honest, i think they did not emulate each channel seperately to avoid discussion on which channel sounds better! Nice to hear you like my channel! Please like my video’s and subscribe to appreciate!
Good job !!!!!!!!! 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏😎
excellent
thanks for your work! I all ready have the UAD 33609/C and I like it a lot! Don't have the UAD 2254/E because I have the PA Lindel Version. Did you compare the UAD against the PA Version? It would be nice if you can do an Compressor Shoot Out between your Hardware CL1B and the UAD CL1B! I only have the UAD CL1B but I love this Comp so much that I'm thinking bout to get the real Box. It's very expensive and it is not necessery but it's one of those studio gear things that I just want to have :)
I will do that in my upcoming website! I’ll keep you posted!
UAD plugins are so close..thank you
I just used your dry/neve/uad to try out the Arturia Diode-609... it's pretty convincing and maintains the stereo field better than the UAD.
The sitral, neve 1073 and 1176 from Arturia are great!
on 2254 it might be cause you have one unit per side that gives the more open sound than the tighter plugin sound (mid focused) if you split the channels ( use separate plugin instances ) in the daw and change the amount of harmonics or the type maybe for each channel might do the trick... (not a uad owner here, just a suggestion) and since you like transformers you should check and test the true iron from kazrog .. i would love to hear your opinion since you have a great experience in the mater (cause your 100k gear is something i personally dont have access to) thnx, great vid
Nice review! I hear more difference in the 33609 than I do the 2254. HW sounds "better" but in this case I don't think someone would tell the difference bin the context of a full mix. I use both!
Hi Chad! Thanks for the correct comment. Although I must say that I believe in those "percentages" that add quality... If you add them all up, I think the overall mix will sound better.
If you like my Video's please smash that THUMBS UP and SUBSCRIBE to my Channel to appreciate my work!
excellente comparaison avec des analyses neutres et réelles. Les plugins UAD sont très proches du son hardware même si celui-ci à ce petit "plus" de netteté et de largeur qui rend le son encore plus agréable à l'oreille. Mais vu la différence de prix et de facilité d'intégration sur plusieurs pistes dans un DAW, je trouve que l'UAD fait parfaitement le job. Je pense d'ailleurs que les compresseurs UAD sont les meilleurs du marché des plugins actuels (avec une petite mention pour le Presswerk de U-he)
Hey Cyril, thanks! Never heard of U-he’s presswork. Can you tell me more?
Great video!! Can i download wav??
Have you ever tried the Lindell 254e?
what about that gap54 with carnhills? different enough from an ssl clone that you really need both?
Great video. The plugin loses something and I think you noticed it too. The hardware has an open sound and it seems to dull when switched to the plugin.
Thanks for the comment! I actually use the plugins to get rid of excessive ambiance on live recordings. I learned that from making this video! So use the disadvantages in a positive way!
outside of a buss compress you have any go to EQs that ad color thats you'd recomend? also you ever try the tk comp?
I do! Please watch the rig rundown video’s. There i describe my setup. And don’t forget to subscribe 🙏
Can you please do an in-depth comparison like this for Slate Digital FG-116 vs your 1176 and Slate Digital's FG-2A vs your LA2A ?
Those comparissons allready exist. Have a look at the slate website, you’ll find it there
@@MasterclaesVideos It is not there. The way you do tests and comparisons, let us hear the sounds, is such a joy to watch for. More than A/B, its about your amazing calibrated demonstration. 😊
UAD wins for me. I think the differences are negligibles and the wider signal may come from the DA/AD round trip (see OTB summing effect)
If budget was unlimited, I would own all the hardware but UAD will have to do for now. Thanks for these videos. Really good stuff and very revealing.
Thanks!!
@@MasterclaesVideos Pete, I`m a bit confused because you access a hi-pass filter at 27:30 on the 33609 but I do not have that on my version. How do you access that? I read the manual and don't see that function anywhere.
@@ernestbuckley8671 You need the latest and updated version to access that function...
@@MasterclaesVideos Thanks Peter, thats what I figured but I'm not updating my OS right now... too much of a hassle. Thanks for the great videos.
Be nice to have the Lindell 254e in this shootout! I find myself using it more than the UAD version. No clue if it's more or less like the hardware though.
Yes I know! This was a different video than the rest of the shootouts i did. Just wanted to compare the UAD’s to my hardware. I just bought the Lindell, so i should give it a go! What did you like best? Hardware or plugin?
Hardware on the 2254. 33609 plugin vs hardware is more just different, not better or worse@@MasterclaesVideos
2254 kick has balls
Thanks for the comment! What other shootouts would you like to see?
the UAD 2254 seems slightly high-passed with all dynamics bypassed compared to the hardware. Am I nuts?
great and detailed shootout Peter! Nice to see you use the Fabfilter Pro-Q 3 as well. It's my favourite ITB EQ. So you don't commit to hardware EQ while tracking drums or was this just the case for this exampe/shootout? Thanks!
Tracking was done flat because that was a pre-amp/AD-converter shootout as well...
@@MasterclaesVideos Aaah I see :) Is there another video of that? Happy Apollo x16 user overhere
@@frankrotthier4392 there was, but i took it offline... Working on a website that will have all of my knowledge video’s
One thing that should be keep in mind when comparing a hardware unit to a plugin is that the hardware unit is connected with audio cables, which in and of itself changes the sound. Plugins are not connected through audio cables.
Hey! Thanks for replying. You are correct, but don’t you think DA/AD conversion plays a bigger role in the sound than cables?
It's a shame that the plugins are as you say.. "Narrow." Compared with the hardware devices.
That's a pretty crucial part of the emulation I think, and I believe I would miss that in a mix.
the best part was when you played that drum track
analog obsession offers a free 2254 comp, its called the Britpressor.
That guy makes great plugins. I love Tuba and Prebox too.
Are you reviewing the 5711 anytime soon..? :)
Sure! Here we go: it shows time and date and it is real lightweight...done... happy? 😎
@@MasterclaesVideos Totally won me over!
Awesome review, I was deciding myself if I should spend $1590 on a Stam Audio 33609 and if it would be worth it against the plug in... I think that there is a big difference.
My honest perception here: I first listened to it in my bluetooth headphones, were it was hard to tell if there were big differences with them (BT is a real sh but it is what I had in hand).
Then I went to my monitor headphones through my audio interface and man, the plug ins SUCK THE TAILS of the snare and bass drum, like a ducked reverb. There is also a loss in the overall rhythmic musical sense, like if each hit was slightly lagging in random intervals in the plug-in.
This will hurt my wallet.
Hi, thanks gor the comment! Did you buy the Stam? Does it compare to the neve?
@@MasterclaesVideos hey there, I made a reservation but the batch is not finished yet. I'll record some samples once I get mine, but I'm afraid I don't have a neve to compare it with.
👍🤩👍TOP👍🤩👍
Any experience with the 2254 reissue hardware?
I have no knowledge of Neve Reissuing the 2254. But if I'm missing out on something, let me know!
@@MasterclaesVideos I think it's the 2254/r.
Peter did you sell your hardware neve 2254 ?
I don’t see why I should?
@@MasterclaesVideos I saw a 2254 listed on reverb and the guys name said Masterclaes so I thought I was you lol, I was wrong
Why does software make the stereo image narrower, including the phantom centre image, and why does it lack the sense of depth/space and heft from hardware. This is almost always the way when i listen to software vs hardware comparions.
I dont understand why software developers can't overcome this. I often wonder if software developers have good ears !!
That's the way I always hear plug-ins as well, which is why I'm partial to the HW. I think that while plug-ins are getting better, impressively better, there's something about the computing of 1's and 0's that just doesn't match the physics (if you will) of real components imparting their magic to the source. What I believe makes for a better sound file at the end is that there was minimal math done to the file to achieve the desired sound, so there's still a lot of raw integrity to the file than if layers of computations were done, with the risk of denominators - quantizing. Know what I mean.
@@FamousTVvoice I have a feeling that the imperfections of hardware electrical components, resistors etc, means each pass of signal is slightly different everytime, and this is happening many times per second. The result is fluctuation in the signal, especially between L/R stereo signal, and as we know, this variation can lead to audio 'illusions' such as a sense of space and width. The harmonics from distortion is an ovious one for 'heft', etc, and sometimes theres like a 'rounding' or smoothing of the signal, and that would have to be connected to the frequency slope over the whole spectrum, something like a filter.
Combine this with the fact that its happening almost instantly, capturing a full uninterupted signal, and you have an impressive result.
What i've come to find out since i wrote that original comment, is that circuit emulation is bringing us much much closer to the hardware result. But the cpu usage is too much and the research and development required are not financially viable with typical business models. What we have with software at the moment are shortcuts to emulate the final sound.
I don't know if you've heard of FPGA chips, but they are being used for circuit emulation and Behringer has had great success at using them in emulating components that are no longer available, and their synths sound almost identical to the old original synths !! Antelope Audio has put FPGA into their audo interfaces, and has created hardware modelling plugins. They sound great, but there is more that can be done. There is no limit, the talent of the engineer combined with the time to truly investigate every variable and nuance of a piece of hardware, could probably have us 99% there. But which company can afford to do that !? Its not profitable.
I think thats where we are at, but as technology improves and RnD gathers more knowledge and data, then we should see something great in future. Outboard boxes with FPGA chips will likely be the standard.
@@bontempo1271 You make several points here. As for HW, the fluctuations that you mention are what I believe I'm listening for when I marry components to the signal chain. It's my belief that not all processors resonate with others in a chain, regardless of settings. Some might write it off to mere sonic character, but I believe that when there's a good match, there's a great sense of what I'll call phase synergy between them and that alone is what will impart a nice, focused sound, along with the desirable characteristic harmonics. Obvious to many, but I sometimes hear a "smear" in the sound that has me question what's being used in a recording. Not sure if it’s a worthy comparison but it's like walking into someone's house and just knowing the speakers aren't wired right in the sound system because you can hear the phase issues. Yeah, a harsh stretch of a comparison but I trustthe gist is there. I can go on but it'll be easier to agree by just adding that plug ins cancel out those concerns or obsessions but as we agree, it's just not the same.
I'm familiar with hearing about FPGA chips but your mention of them will have me read up on them some more to see what the current buzz is about their progress. Meanwhile, My Genelec's have convinced my ears and my body that there's more to what passes my HW Vs the plug-ins, and I know without a doubt that its not a need to justify the investment in those rack spaces, there's just MORE to the HW.
Even if we were to get to a level playing field between plug-ins and HW, to me, there's more inspiration and connection with the creative process to be hands on than constant mouse clicks.
@@FamousTVvoice Yes i prefer hands on also. Interesting thought about phase synergy between components :)
Hardware still has a sound. The 2254 will cost you 10k for hardware. You can still buy a 33609/N but not sure how it compares to the /C. You can buy the /C for around 5k.
Unless you have that kind of money in your pocket, software will at least get you close.
Hoi Frank, Thanks for the comment! If you like my Video's please smash that THUMBS UP and SUBSCRIBE to my Channel to appreciate my work!
Actually, the 2254 was reissued in 08, instead now in a one rack space unit (mono). Google Neve 2254/R and you'll see then for sale, new. AMS Neve has a nice page with all the info on their web site. Average price in the US about $2800 for the mono channel. So it's still very attainable.
The hardware 2254 has a lot more clean and punchy lower end/lower mids to my ears.
Thanks for the reply. What is your favorite diode bridge comp?
Plug-in emulations don't provide air, depth and separation. Why UA don't emulate these aspects remains unknown.
I think that is the most difficult part and very difficult to achieve because it goes beyond frequency curves snd THD
HARDWARE !!!!!!!!
Bro! U gotta talk faster! Gotdamn! Thanks for the video tho!
SooooHW has More bottom and just better all over sounding, No race here!
Hi Carl, I believe in percentages too! I must say I just got a Focusrite RED3 and did a shootout between it and the Neve's... I prefer the RED for it's transparency and "forwardness"...
If you like my Video's please smash that THUMBS UP and SUBSCRIBE to my Channel to appreciate my work!
Hardware always wins. So annoying. Software always sounds a bit congested. One day they will figure it out.