Nintendo (NES) Controller - Ergonomics
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- čas přidán 27. 06. 2024
- An examination of the parts that make up the NES controller and what they mean to us.
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#NES #Controller #Dogbone - Věda a technologie
There was a kid in my school a few years younger than me, born with severe Symbrachydactyly, with no digits on either hand. He was the first person I ever saw make it to World 8 in SMB1. The way he would play is to flip the NES controller over on his lap and press the back of the controller into his legs. It was crazy.
You missed one grip, Smash TV on the NES has an option to play with two NES controllers in each hand using both almost like a TV remote, allowing to move with one D-pad and aim on the other.
So you would have to buy 4 controllers to play it? Damn.
"two NES controllers in each hand"
Blood Bath and Beyond - Pop Goes Metal Covers you know what he probably meant. 2 controllers, one in each hand most likely
There is also a NES homebrew game called Spookatron where you can use the same setup. It is a Robotron clone.
@@finaltheorygames1781 and let's not forget GoldenEye 007 for the N64. If the lack of a second analogue stick bothered you in that game, it had a mode which allowed you to use one controller in each hand.
There are a few other "grips" that are game-specific that are not mentioned: "The 45" is a grip used in Marble Madness and Q-Bert wherein you hold the controller at a 45 degree angle to line up with the movement of your character in the game, for instance.
About a year ago, I made a commitment to fulfilling a childhood dream... beating Mike Tyson's Punch-Out!! After a few days of playing, I was bothered that my original NES controller didn't have the same feel as it did when I played Punch-Out 30 years ago. I tried refurbishing the controller in a few ways, but replacing the membranes with new ones from a third party was the only thing that made it feel "right" again. The old membranes had taken on a mushy feel, the new ones were snappy, like I remembered. Dodging and throwing punches with frame-perfect timing was so much easier after the swap. I thought I might be getting too old and losing my reflexes, but this time it really was the controller's fault.
Awesome, Dave G. I am glad that worked for you.
Feels like a game one would play, when emulating, with an arcade stick. More precisely a Seimitsu as it has very short travel to activation even though generally everyone prefers sanwa arcade parts that are generally better, but stick movement speed is not as much of an issue with it.
SumeaBizarro I have a hard time imagining playing Punch-Out on an emulator. As it was, I used real NES hardware on a LCD television and found the lag small but unbearable. I switched to a CRT, and the difference was profound. Besides light gun games and Punch-Out, there's nothing else that I play on a CRT. The lag-free Punch-Out experience is hard to describe, but now that I've experienced it, I could never play another way. It would be a very different game with emulation and a computer display.
@@drloko4013 hello, where did you buy new membranes? I'm trying to find more "clicky" ones.
Shutkin Sergey I bought them on Amazon. "RepairBox Controller Silicone for NES" item number B01M0OD5FX From the reviews, it seems that some of the pads are good and some are not. People who've purchased multiple times have gotten some great ones and some not so good. I guess I was lucky. Both of the sets I ordered are very "clicky".
I few things you may have missed. The D-pad for the dog bone appears to be the exact same as the D-pad on the SNES. When you open the controller they braided the cord in and out of certain internal plastic pieces often with ridges on them so that if you pulled on the cord the cord itself would take most of the tension rather than pulling off internal wires. Also Nintendo had a patent on the D-pad with that small half sphere on the bottom of the D-pad. Other companies couldn't use a piece of plastic just like it and had to find work a work around often creating the exact same thing but only slightly different.
3:14 - just put it on a table it use it as a keyboard at this point
Your content is unique. This take on controllers was much needed. Keep on it, you'll get far. Most people don't seem to care or ever think about this stuff but I've always sustained it's key to gameplay (you covered this on another video). That's why to surprise of my gamer friends I have lots of different controllers, even for emulation I try to go as OG or as ergonomic as possible for a better suited experience. Thanks and regards from Argentina!
Thanks! I try to make videos on subjects that haven't been covered that often if at all. It is a gamble, but comments like yours let me know I am on the right track, and that there IS some audience out there that is interested in the content.
I agree it's an important topic.
More so than anything else, what puts me off using emulation is the controllers.
The Wii Virtual console did pretty well here, and the mini consoles too (plus the controllers for that work on Wii and Wii U as well)
But layouts are a particular problem - modern controllers owe a lot to the SNES design, so usually those aren't so bad to play on alternate controllers.
But it really struck me how bad playing n64 games on a 'standard' (aka SNES derived) layout is.
It's not immediately apparent, but losing the 6 button layout kinda hurt.
I found Starfox 64 especially difficult to play this way...
Amongst other things, this makes me appreciate my old consoles more...
But it also makes me long for a modern take on a 6 button controller.
The loss of 2 face buttons when the overall number of buttons has increased doesn't sound so bad, but there's still plenty of things that would feel better to me with a controller that had 6 face buttons...
And then there's weird things like...
Remember the kickstarter or whatever it was for the n64 controller that removed the 'confusing' 3rd prong in favour of a more modern style?
While I can see why it was done, moving the analogue stick to the left side kills a bunch of alternate controller functions several games used.
The one that hurts me the most (though I guess it doesn't matter since I never used one of these 'new' controllers) is that it kills the ability to use dual analogue control with Goldeneye and Perfect Dark...
What seems like a good idea to some, seems like a disaster to others...
Displaced Gamers I would love a vid talking about the complication that is a DS motherboard and maybe go into details about buttons across diferent models. I just love good content about my favorite console.
Or dive in to the circuitry of a Wii Remote?
1:04 Whoa, 30 years with this game and I did NOT know that! Now I feel like I need to revisit it and see if that makes things any easier. Of course now the question is what controller to use...
android touchscreen
My preferred NES controller grip (original controller): fingers around the backside for support, left thumb on the d-pad angled towards 2 o'clock, right thumb resting on B button, angled towards 11 o'clock. This grip was inspired by SMB because I could hold down the B button and roll my right thumb to press A with accuracy, but at the same time wasn't uncomfortable to use. 30 years later I'm STILL using the same grip.
8:12 Shoutouts to that tiny dandruff spec.
Lol
I can't even see it
I'll often hold it (as well as other controllers) with index and middle fingers on the buttons, but the thumb always controls the d-pad. This is best for games that offer the ability for rapid fire. For example Ghouls & Ghosts on Genesis or SuperGrafx. I feel like I have so much more control than using my thumb to press the buttons. For tamer games like, say, ActRaiser, I'll use my thumb for jump and slash. Also, OG over dogbone any day, I hate the B and A placement on the dogbone. I always felt jump should be lower than action. Somehow I have no issue witht he Genesis and Saturn controllers where C is jump and B is action, so go figure. You can swap out the buttons with an original Game Boy and original NES controller, but honestly I never really cared for the feel of Gameboy buttons and d-pad in my NES controller.
Game Sack I do this too. Kind of a mixed grip. It works really well for mash heavy games like the Mega Man series.
I use this grip occasionally too. It's good for things like shmups where you need a lot of rapid presses.
i realize Im kind of off topic but does anyone know of a good site to watch new movies online?
@Derek Rodney I would suggest flixzone. You can find it by googling =)
@Derek Rodney i use FlixZone. You can find it on google :)
That upside down version of holding the control, the d-pad being reversed, it hurts my head.
I guess you gotta think of it like inverse flight controls.
My mom held the controller like that
So glad you mentioned the upside down grip. My cousin used to play like that and it was unbelievable - not only then, but especially in that nobody believes me when I tell them now.
Still loving loving this channel. So much quality on each one. Thank you for your love to detail.
Thank you! I wondered if the topic was too detailed and too niche, but the response has been great. Your comment means a lot.
I definitely learned to press B with the thumb tip, and A with the thumb middle, and it has always bothered me that modern games and controllers are designed to not utilize that efficiency anymore.
The problem stems not from the positioning of the face buttons, as you can easily go with the thumb tip on the left face button and the thumb muscle on the bottom face button, but from the labeling and prioritization that comes from the console manufacturers. With this approach, the button on the left feels like the NES B, and the button on the bottom feels like the NES A, but everyone in the present manages to screw this up. Nintendo in their infinite wisdom thought it a good idea to put A on the right and B on the bottom, whereas in fact B feels like A and Y feels like B. Xbox half gets this right, but they messed up when it came to placing X and B. As someone who grew up with the Gamecube controller, its face buttons feel like where they're supposed to, if only it kept the traditional diamond layout. But every letter for that controller felt like it belonged there.
Playstation completely dodges this question. It's debatable whether this is a good or bad thing.
It’s not more efficient, though.
The rest of us have just been slightly rocking our thumb over for decades.
The most you can argue is equal efficiency, if that, and for it you had to hold the controller differently in each hand (which obviously hasn’t been catered to in later controllers)
3:55 is actually how Miyamoto would play-test Mario games. It's so difficulty to get your bearings that it basically lets you play like a beginner.
Every high level hypertapper in the Classic Tetris scene holds the controller completely different:
Thor Aackerlund had a technique of "vibrating his thumb"
Classic Tetris World Champion Joseph Saelee presses all buttons with one hand, using thumb for the D pad and the other fingers for the A and B buttons, or using both hands but stillnot using his right thumb for A and B: czcams.com/video/AC-Ct5rmqC/video.html
Marc rotates the controller 90 degrees and using his left hand for A and B, which are on top now due to the rotation. Then he presses the controller against his leg and uses his right hand for the directional pad. He explains it here: czcams.com/video/MeBEMrAry-g/video.html
Great video, as always! Thanks for your work.
I never seen such attention to detail in a video. I love this video.
John Elway uses your grip on the cover of John Elway Quarterback
Looking forward to part 2!
A new Displaced Gamers video, my day just got better!
I love the og NES controller to the point I think about tattooing it. I've been playing with it since I was 2yo.
My old doc back in college days would hold computer mice upside down - so both axes reversed, scroll wheel and buttons at the bottom. I remember talking to him about it and he just said "it just feels way more natural, like those ball controller things at the arcade, you know?" - boy was he happy when I introduced him to trackballs. :)
This was enlightening. Thanks
A few Smash players I've met use the claw grip from 2:58. It was popular back in the competitive Halo days as well. Never worked for me but some people swear by it.
3:05 when I bought a megadrive my grip defaulted to that pinch position.
I grew up with the ps1 and wii...
Some of the alternative grips make me think of the Speedboard. The Power Glove episode was very popular, and many replies were "Review some of the other dumb controllers."
6:58 Sometimes I elaborate on the "Sports car vs luxury car" feel by mentioning how hardcore the sports car is.
I often use a Playstation 2 controller. When the first "Playstation to USB" converter arrived, I bought one. Sometimes I use a high grade XBOX corded controller. Also, I got some Playstation 2 turbo controllers for dirt cheap, so I use them when a modern game console needs a turbo button.
I remember in Top Gear on the Snes there is a control scheme meant for holding the controller upside down. Its the only game I personally know about with that scheme
Very interesting! I’ve been playing the Japan-only Joy Mech Fight on Switch using the NES Joy-Con, and I’ve been having a hard time pressing both A and B at the same time for special moves. I never considered changing my grip so that I could press them with two fingers instead of one, I’ll have to try that. Thanks for this video, I was just about to give up!
this is fantastic!!
The "claw" grip at around 3:00 is how I played Megaman X, due to the extra buttons on the SNES. Good times.
Omg as a kid I held the controller with that 180° flip! I liked the cord on the bottom of the controller! I just learned that way.
Years ago I had a third party Xbox 360 controller from GameStop. It was pretty bad all around, but one feature I really, really liked were the face buttons. They weren't concave or convex, they were perfectly flat, which I really liked, and instead of having the letters inside translucent plastic like the original, they were etched into the top, which added a bit of tactile grip. I know it was just an accident of the cheapening process, but they actually felt really good. I was playing Metal Gear Rising at the time, which has a lot of button mashing, and it genuinely made slicing dudes up feel a lot better.
I actually modded my Xbox One and Dualshock 4 controllers with this stupid gimmicky buttons that look like the backs of bullet shells, because they actually felt really similar to those old face buttons from that Xbox 360 controller.
wish you had also had the original Famicom controller just to compare it to the NES one. great video
Hmm... I grew up primarily with the dogbone controller, so that's what I'm used to. Not only is it more ergonomically designed, but I felt it was pretty precise as well - I've beaten games like Contra and Ninja Gaiden with it with no problem. In comparison, the original NES controller's sharp edges and corners hurts my hand. I guess that's indicative of me holding onto each controller relatively tightly.
Thumb on DPad, pinch grip on A and B. I used this grip for olympic games for faster button spamming. The thumb can help rock the controller forward, so you can effectively double your spam speed, you just alternate between a and b while rocking the controller forward with your right thumb.
awesome!
I used my index finger for
the B button, my middle finger for
the A button, and my thumb for support. Worked for me.
I used my NES controller with my thumb on the D-Pad, and my index and middle fingers on the B and A respectively (and using my right thumb for support).
I have a particularly standard hold, as far as I know. My thumb does rest across both action buttons with the tip of my thumb pressing "B" and the middle of my thumb pressing "A" like you demonstrated. As far as preference goes, it kind of depends. The twitchier the game, the more I prefer the precise feeling of the original. Battletoads, Super C, all the Mega Man games, etc. give me the original any day.
Great video as always.
Nice vid, as always. I'm the kind of person who puts his thumb on both A and B at the same time, SMB was my very first game and like you said, it came organically and probably by necessity. Can't wait for part 2 !
Awesome. I think a lot of people created some version of having their thumb on A and B at the same time.
@@DisplacedGamers Yeah, I don't feel special in any way for doing it like that ^-^ I just figured that most people would share their way of doing this so stating it would make for a nice overview of who did what (a small sample statistic for you). Again, thanks for talking about controllers, most people could talk about gaming for years without ever mentioning controllers once...
At high school I met a kid that placed the SNES controller on the table and used eight fingers to kind of “type” the buttons. It was a sight, no doubt.
I got an NES Advantage maybe a year after I got the Nintendo. It was so so much better than the little rectangle. Way more precise and conducive to all day play.
10:30 no, the hollow-out is there to avoid the plastic when it shrinks during demoulding from forming a visible dimple. You're not supposed to design with different plastic thickness in different spots, and adjoining walls must be as thick as the face, with a possible exception of the perimeter wall, and furthermore thinner shell is usually recommended for the same reason. I suspect they switched from 2mm to the more common 1.6mm after the D-pad was finalised and needed to execute a 2mm thick face plate section at the D-pad as shallow walls for this reason.
Also note that since the face of the original controller is covered with a sticker, it's significantly more forgiving towards moulding mishaps and less attention would be given at the design stage.
I did voultar’s mod swapped original Gameboy convex buttons on my original NES controller and I am very happy with it
I got my start in gaming on an Atari 2600, but this, right here, was most of my childhood.
My friends thought I was weird that I'd rest my index fingers on top of the NES controller. Turns out, it made playing the SNES natural when it came out, because my fingers were already familiar with resting where the shoulder buttons were. Super Mario Bros taught me to use the thumbtip of my right hand for the B button and the knuckle of it for A presses, a trick I'd later take to the SNES by using the thumbtip for Y and X, and the underside of the knuckle for B and A. Yes, this does mean that on the NES, my thumb is bent at the knuckle and lays jackknifed across the buttons. No I don't make any apologies for this - I still owned anyone I knew back then for fastest completion times on Super Mario Bros. 3, and I was the only one of my friends who could beat Mega Man 3 consistently when peashooter-dueling all of the Robot Masters. I'm probably rusty as all hell these days.
I prefer the classic "Control Brick" - the dog bone design's more comfortable, but I grew up with the brick and prefer its precision. My hands are bigger now than they were as a kid, so the 'brick' feels a bit small these days, especially the D-pad, but I can still play just fine. The increased spring of the membranes on the 'brick are the dealmaker for me; I need that firm pushback after a press. The softer membranes on the modern dog bone feel too loose and ... swampy, for lack of a better term. I'm not bent up about convex vs. concave, although I will say that extremly concave buttons with an unsoftened edge are brutal on your fingers. Personally, give me a flat, granule-textured button for grip, with a slightly rounded-off edge, and you've made my ideal button surface.
Playing games like Q-Bert led me to a grip you didn't cover in your video. You'd bury the side of the controller into the base of your palm and rotate the controller 45-degrees, with your right hand operating the face buttons ahead of your left. In isometric-view games like this, this 45-degree-angle grip would line the D-pad up with the movements onscreen. I vaguely recall using it on a couple games all the way up to the SNES; I want to say Solstice and Equinox, but I'm not entirely sure those were it.
Left unsaid: the original has that black faceplate with the grey bars in the middle, while the dogbone's design is much more minimalistic. That's actually one thing I love about the original NES controller, which most controllers seem to fail at, even today: it's got STYLE, man! Even black and grey can really help a design pop if you use it right.
Video game console have typically been nothing but bland uninspired two-toned' minimal sterile black & white boxes since the 2010's. Back in the tail end of the 80's & 90's, consoles had character, style, were colourful, unique and LOUD 'in your face'. Genesis model 1(89), NES, Top Loader, SNES, PS1(95'), N64 and Dreamcast being the most notable. Including the Indigo GameCube & white Wii during the early and later 2000's.
To me, the Sega Dreamcast, including it's controller design, was the last incredible looking non-nintendo console ever released. The name was amazing too. These days, Outside of Nintendo, Sony keeps on adding yet another number after PlayStation and XBOX is equally almost just as boring. Xbox 360, One, Series X...Good lord. :P
PlayStation VR1, PlayStation VR2....Why not Sony Virtua? And Nintendo should call their next console, the Nintendo Cosmo(A super hybrid) with a funky colorful unique design that actually stands out from the pack. ;)
We made many videos on refurbishing old consoles. Specifically the nes controller.
You can use membranes from many other controllers or just replace the graphite pads with a dab of superglue reused from whatever, old tv remotes, etc.
Dude... I got all the way to the end of Ninja Gaiden as a kid and didn't even know how to throw shurikens or other weapons. The day before this video went live I noted that the PermaStruct instructions left this out. Of course, they also left out the wall climbing. ;)
2:58, oh yes, the claw! I played hundreds and hundreds of hours with a grip like that. Try a monster hunter game on PSP, you'll have no other option...
Method 2 is how I usually hold the controller. Most likely learned from playing Mario. I'm not a fan of the dog bone simply because of the weird layout of the A and B buttons. If you ever plan to cover Famicom controllers, you should compare both the round button and square buttons controllers.
I learned to grip it two ways when I started playing Megaman X. one for normal jumping and shooting, and a different grip when I needed to do dash jumping.
I use to have to hold the Sega GameGear with my right pointer finger hooked around to get to the start button because that was also the turbo button for NBA Jam.
Great video to procrastinate cleaning the house.
I held the controller the same way as you, and I thought I was the only one! Well, at least for games that needed quick button controls like Mario or Megaman. RPGs I held the traditional way.
They make 3D printed grips now for the original rectangular controller, and apparently some folks really like it. Best of both worlds, if you ask me.
So much of a comparison and analysis.
I've never used a dogbone controller and have never particularly wanted to.
I had no idea so many alternate grips existed. Mine isn't even listed, funnily enough.
I hold it most similarly to the grip mentioned at 2:14, though instead of each hand holding the controller differently, my left hand mirrors my right, so each hand is coming from the side.
There's many ways to hold a NES controller.
This reminds me a bit of how there's a few ways of holding my Logitech Wireless Keyboard when playing PC games.
For example, this is a layout I recently came up with for paying Mario:
I used Numpad-8456 instead of the arrow keys. I also used the Big Enter Key for Jump, and the Backspace directly above it for Running.
This was actually very comfortable and made me realize how uncomfortable the standard setup with Arrow Keys, Space Bar and Alt actually is.
For a "deep dive" I thought you mention:
The Super Famicom controller is all convex.
The dogbone arrangement is shared with the Game Boy.
The dogbone/Game Boy arrangement lets you press one button while holding another much faster (try it!).
The dogbone shares parts with the SNES/SFC and Game Boy. For example, the D-pad is identical to the Game Boy. Similarly, the original GBA and the GameCube share a D-pad.
Definitely, Emmett! I would like to make several videos spanning various controllers, and I expect to tie each one back to one or more of the previous videos - take a progressive timeline approach. That said, the dogbone became a part of this video because I liked the original vs dogbone aspect of it all - so the timeline aspect was thrown out this time around.
I expect to have a SFC and SNES controller video in the future, and I imagine portables also won't be neglected.
Thanks for your comment.
The upside down grip is called south-paw, its commonly associated with left handed players, but isn't always the case. Also it works with topgun ok.
You are the best analisyng things In video game
Excellent video I knew something was off or felt weird about the dogbone but couldn't figure out why. This clarifies everything thank you for that! During the year I was wondering had anyone ever make replacement membranes for the dogbone and I couldn't find any but I did come across a unique solution. One day observing I noticed that the button spacing between the wii pro controller and the dogbone were the same. I had struggled finding anything closer compared to it. What I did for giggles was cut up the pad to the pro controller and swapped it with the dogbones. I did this because with the bones buttons it felt mushy and hard to press. With this mod you get a really nice "pop" feel back! It's much easier to use and way more enjoyable! No more button strain! Definitely give it a try and let me know your thoughts! It's my new way to play with the dogbone and I love it. It makes a world of difference in terms of fatigue.
I really enjoy your videos and subject!
For sideways buttons I mainly use style 1 rolling my thumb or sometimes style 2 depending on button distance and size or game. I basically grew up rolling my thumb owning a NES, Genesis then a GBA and DS Lite. (3)DS buttons are so small and tightly arranged I can't use it like an SNES or PSX with the tip and middle of the the thumb. Only recently have I started using the SNES way with 2D games.
As an aside for Tekken games I use my thumb on the d-pad but my fingers on the face buttons like an arcade cab.
Oh wow! You aren't the only one that has played Tekken games like that based on the comments so far. I find this fascinating.
I can't quite remember how I felt about the 3DS buttons - I guess I adapted to how close they were. The more recent games I have been playing on them are more menu-based (Dragon Quest series), so I haven't played a twitch game on there in awhile. Admittedly, this is also a 3DS XL.
A unique grip that I have seen with the original NES controller design is that of it is like it is an arcade grip of sorts where you have your left hand on the dpad holding the controller like normal and have you right hand press the buttons like you would an arcade style controller. Used for games like Silver Surfer.
It's fascinating how every little detail come into account in these controllers. I always thought that the dogbone (that I've got from my AV Famicom) felt a little soft and imprecise compared to the original blocky one that i grew up with. I thought i was imagining it, but I can now safely say that I definitely prefer the original one !
The NES controller layout was used first on some Game and Watch devices... the D pad on the left, button or buttons on the right.
I think a good design would have been something shaped like the Wii nunchuck. You could hold it in either hand. A and B would be on the underside and triggered by the index and middle fingers, and it would have a small thumb-controlled 8-way directional instead of analog stick on top. And of course start and select buttons would be elsewhere on the control. I always hated the plus sign d-pads as it's hard to press them diagonally.
That's interesting, Steve. The nunchuck does have good symmetry to make it easier for people to use with either their left hand or right hand. My concern would be the intensity of the games used with it. If I am playing Battletoads, for example, I will oftentimes tense up during difficult parts of the game. I think having a second hand on the controller for stability helps me in cases like that. I would be interested to try out a controller similar to what you are suggesting, though.
Shoutouts to the dust particle at 8:13
I think the very first version of the Famicom controller had square buttons like the start and select buttons. They dropped them pretty quickly because the buttons could get stuck on the side of the top shell. It was fine for buttons that weren't used as much like the start and select. It was probably for the sake of simplicity and cost-cutting that the buttons were like that initially.
3:38 I held the Genesis controller like this with my right hand only. Still used my thumv for the D pad. I only did it in games where I needed to hit all the buttons )or two at the same time) quickly Like Mortal Kombat.
4:00 is a classic lefty grip.
6:50 might be the most on the nose analogy for the different styles of controllers. People like to talk up the dog bone because it's more rare and unusual, but there are pros and cons, and even better games suited for each - just like the Advantage.
I hold it in a midway position from thumbs from the bottom and from the side. Thumb rests on B, and rolls to hit A.
I love the Dogbone controller! It has actually allowed me to beat a lot of NES games I just couldn’t beat as a kid. I’ve modded one of mine with 8-bit do’s DIY kit that lets you replace the innards to make it a wireless controller. While I also love the Super Famicom and N64 controllers, I sometimes feel like the dogbone is the best controller Nintendo have ever produced- it’s just so comfortable and elegant in its simplicity yet so effective at making NES games fun and easy to play.
nice comment
Always 2 thumbs up, 1 on the dpad and the other rolling the B and A, not tapping or placing a thumb horizontally, but differing the pressure. This explains why Im so picking about how close a stick is to those buttons on a modern controller. A ls an asife a weird thing I do now on modern controller is I never have my thumb directly on top of an analog stick, I push the edges of it, which makes games like Luigi's Mansion 3 a nightmare for me.
It's 5 AM i don't know what i'm doing...
I'm there! Hahaha.. Drinking Modelo now too
3:53 hahah my friends can not believe that I can play PC platformers with arrow keys and left control and alt :D I am used to this from old DOS games :) they can not imagine that the right hand can control directions and left actions :D hahah I am used to play with normal game pads too :)
When I discovered ROMs and emulators in 1999, I had no trouble playing NES games on a standard computer keyboard.
@@skylinefever me too I started in 1998 with Keen 4 and default controls and and about the same time I got a famiclone and start playing Mario and Rockman, and years after this I discovered NES emulation in 2001 and no problems playing again like all other DOS games, never knew that for some it is crustal to play with left hands on the directions :) and it is very funny that one of my friend crossed his hands to play DOS games with not configuratable controls :D hehe
@@intel386DX I never even thought about it until a good friend of mine pointed out that the controls were flipped, but he adapted. He was an RPG enthusiast and got into SNES RPGs. I also enjoyed playing Final Fantasy 5 back when a translated ROM was the only way to play.
@@skylinefever hehe for RPGs is not a big deal :) BTW I started even on the LCD electronic games with a D pad on the right :D mine electronic CLD game was Tronica SB-33 Air sea battle :) I loved this game
I hold my NES controller like a normal controller.
Thumbs on the D-pad and A/B, index fingers on the top edge (where bumpers/triggers would be now), and the bottom corners of the controller in my palms.
I got to play with the original controller, all of the ways you showed depending on the game. I don't even remember playing with the dogbone at all! I know this is about NES but as for the SNES controller, I just can't play Street Fighter II if I don't cover the entire control with a napkin, handkerchief or the lower part of my t-shirt since this allows me to slide my finger around easily when performing moves otherwise I hurt my fingers skin and even get blisters. Since SF2, I play all fighting games that require consecutive directional moves by covering the controller.
I was an AB Thumber. and you're right. it was precisely so i could accurately run and jump in SMB
The controller with the most grip possibilities was definitely the N64 one. At first, I insisted on positioning my hands on the far sides because it seemed wrong to hold a controller any other way. You can't really say that a controller is well designed if another person or a manual needs to tell you how to hold it. One thing almost all gamers seem to agree upon is that nobody really misses the era of giant controllers like the N64, Dreamcast, etc.
I'm curious what it would be like to have an nes controller where B is a trigger either on the top or the back. This would be like an evolution of the claw grip depicted in famitsu.
Great point on the dog bone having the rotation reversed, as i when used retroarch for the first time with a ps3 controller and on nintendo games, O is A and X is B, so its so counterintuitive. I personally do not own a switch so hadn't noticed before. This is kinda bad as i got used to using my thumb on X and [] or O and /\, and back then [] was back, but due to the xbox O is now but coming from the other consoles, it is real bad playing pokemon; "wanna switch to a new pokemon?". I also use my index finger on the face buttons, mostly when i use the right thumbstick with my thumb, and use my middlefinger on the bumpers and triggers.
Plug both of them into the NES Control Deck and the NES2 Control Deck top loader for 2 player fun or into the NES Satellite, NES Four Score, Roll & Rocker, and the Dominator Master Control and expierence the thrills of Nintendo's growing library of 4-player games.
I use the mario grip but I also hold the d-pad sideways (top of thumb going right, middle to go left).
I mostly played MegaMan 2, Super Mario 1 & 3, Tetris, TMNT and BattleToads. I might hold the controller differently for Tetris, but not sure.
I can't imagine what it's like to use a dogbone controller. I think I saw one once and thought it was a cheap knockoff.
I used to hold SuperNES controllers with index finger clawing for the A button, and middle finger for R.
Reminds me of how I would hold all controllers in my hands with just the thumbs near the buttons, until I played Dark Souls and decided planting the index finger on the B button of my Xbox controller so I could move the camera with my thumb and push other buttons with my thumb.
I've played every game like that since then. Middle finger on the trigger, index on the face, thumb on the stick. If the controller has triggers and sticks of course.
I recoiled in horror when I saw your grip.
As did most of my friends!
I agree with this video.
I feel spoiled when watching any of your videos, it's just excellent stuff
And the section about grips was a throwback, never had a chance to use a Dogbone so can't comment.
But with the original. I gravitated towards the inverted one, being a lefty prolly had something with it
I distinctively remember being more comfortable playing Karate Champ that way, and perhaps run-jumping in SMB
the way i hold the nes controller is with the tip of my thumb semi inbetween b and a. i'd rock my thumb to the a button to jump while running
Nice controller breakdown. Ive got an idea for a video. I’m an inverted y axis gamer ever since snes pilot wings about 20 years ago. Every game since I have to go to settings and invert y axis to proceed or my brain does not handle it. Thoughts on that? Thanks
My cousin would put the controller on the floor and use his fingers like it was an arcade stick. I thought it was weird as frack but he made it work. I always just played with my thumbs like most people.
In my experience the dog bone is more comfortable to hold but the buttons have better action on the original NES controller.
I prefer the dogbone, despite not having one until I was an adult. Never had any problems with responsiveness or anything.
As for grips, family friend used to grip vertically. The same hands you'd normally use, but left hand on top with d-pad, right hand on bottom with A+B. I never got it, but it worked for him.
Oh wow! I imagine I would have also caught myself staring if I saw someone using that grip. Good stuff!
Nice video. Candelabra, a homebrew rpg for the nes uses that style of grip:
czcams.com/video/1_hxqcnkApE/video.html
I haven't played the game though.
Like some others have mentioned, I think the health of the membranes in the particular controllers you used also may contribute to the "snappiness" or responsiveness/feedback feeling of some controllers, so these things may be kinda variable in the end and skew results a bit.
Long term/"enthusiastic" button presses have definitely caused some sagging in the face buttons for my Gamecube controllers, but despite playing the absolute hell out of my NES as a child (complete with frustrated heavy button mashing), the springiness of the buttons and the d-pad still feels like I remember it when first being given the NES almost 30 years ago.
I do a bit of controller repair nowadays and it seems like the membranes in modern controllers give up the ghost sometimes after only a few months of play. The material quality was just better back then - the controllers are quite literally built different.
To me the original controller is the best, it was the second controller that i had, second to the atari, and the dpad was so intuitive and more easy to control the action in the screen.
I use the the Gamerz Tek NES controller. It's like the Original controller but, with rounded edges. Much more comfortable. I also use the NES Max sometimes
My cousin beat Ninja Gaidan with the controller upside down hold when he was 3. I know you don't believe me, I don't even believe me and I saw it with my own eyes. His dad (who couldn't get past the second to last boss) was pissed... I just wish we had a video camera way back then.
Dogbone from NES2 and SNES was great.
At 08:44, the nub underneath the D-pad on the dog-bone controller is noticeably more recessed. The nub on the original protrudes by almost exactly its radius. I'd imagine that this also has an impact on the feel of the D-pad, with increased travel on the original compared to the dog-bone.