HARDCORE Trump supporter confronts me...how did it go?
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- čas přidán 26. 01. 2024
- -- Caller says David is derisive on religion and inflation
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Broadcast on January 26, 2024
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If churches want to be involved in politics they should pay taxes and not be exempt!
Agreed. Jesus said to seperate church and state. Render unto Caesar that which is Caesars. Render unto God that which is Gods. The kingdom of God is in Heaven not on Earth.😊
Amen to that!!! 🙏
No. They should pay taxes and still have no say. In fact the Bible stated that the church must follow the law of the land.
Good luck getting that to change
"Congress shall make NO law respecting the establishment of religion!"
A PERSON'S beliefs are protected, not religion, in our Constitution. And our Constitution is the highest Law, not Guad's.
It baffles me that religious people don’t understand that their personal religious beliefs are not valid arguments for a secular society.
💯
Well said!!
Religious people lack critical thinking. They are all brainwashed.
Religion was created when the first conman met the first fool and it's still going strong today.
I think it’s important to first recognize that the United States is supposed to be a secular government but not a secular society. Aside from that the issue really lies in the fact that some religious organizations try to twist the meaning of the first amendment to make the argument that the United States is not supposed to have a secular government, while ch leads to the problem with not understanding why religion should not be a basis for laws
I'm religious and I agree with you.
I don't want churches writing laws and I don't want government writing church sermons and services.
good one...I'll remember that one!
Back when the church ruled society was called the Dark Ages.
And I dont want an orange prezzz that poops his pants😅😅😅😅😅
The dude could not get off the broken platform of 'my religious belief's should trump anyone else's'.
That's the trouble - every religion beige its Repton is the only true one and of course they'd want it to be the basis of law and therefore imposed on everyone.
If you don’t want an abortion, don’t have one! You have no right to take my rights away because “you don’t believe in my rights”!
Bingo
Right, but dare not take the vaxx, and you're an evil anti vaxx maga republican grr! My body my choice until you dare not take an experimental drug in which you cant sue for damages under any circumstances.
Well said.
I know some act ignorant to this despite understanding it but I seriously don't get why there seem to be so many people who sincerely don't understand this perspective. Why is that?
@@4yinyangthey it's another reason for them to be selfish.
How can any religious individual even remotely believe that trump is moral?
The have high levels of gullibility. They are primed to believe anything without evidence.
Your guess is as good as mine.
If he's a Netanyahu supporter, I could see why they may support Trump.
Beyond me
@@SirFingerLickinwhy? Netanyahu is evil
Very simple. Separation of church and state. Religion has no place in government period.
David Pakman is incredibly articulate.
this caller was not bad either (Intelligent, formulated responses, patience, the ability to debate a point and concede others). Maybe Shmuel should be running for the GOP ticket instead of the whack job known as Trump who couldnt possibly have compiled sentence structures like these. His red hat actually should say "dunce."
Yes David is able to get the point across clear, and Dave has reported on inflation but tit-for tat
If a person cannot separate their religion from their civil office, then they must not hold office.
Our speaker of the house.
@@MyopinionNUrs4880 NO! NOT MOSES MIKE!!
Trump has no religious belief he is completely shallow
I do not understand how people tolerate and elect psychologically questionable leaders that do not represent them. Does it all comes down to media propaganda?
or EVEN a cup of coffee for that matter!
Your religion does not prohibit "ME" from anything......it prohibits you. People should learn the difference.
Spot on!
💯
@Jorel032777 that’s a mic dropping statement! 💯 Perfectly said!
Exactly. Excellent!
Perfect
The point is, religions have made an enterprise of telling "non believers" how to live their lives. It has always been wrong, and has been the basis for atrocities for ages.
Evangelism is, by definition, profoundly disrespectful, presumptive, and demeaning.
That Shmul listens to, and called David in the first place means he is questioning his Trumpism. Great Socratic arguments, David!
Probably not ... that Shmuel dude has a CZcams channel. He comes across as reasonable, but he is most assuredly a lost cause. Another CZcamsr named Logicked did a few response videos on that guy.
I like a president who is NOT a sex offender and rapist.
Save America!! Vote America!!
I agree! How can the right bring the moral argument to the table on the topic of abortion when they support a man who is so incredibly immoral? It blows my mind every single day and has for years!
A tax dodger, a draft dodger ,and liar.
A conman
you missed one, traitor
Rapist, fraudster & insurrectionist coup leader, as well as being an orange clown, are all things you do not want the leader of your country to be.
American women's reproductive health care shouldn't be decided by politicians. Vote for Biden-Harris 🇺🇲
or priests or rabbis or any other religious men. or any man at all. It should be her choice and hers alone because its her life at risk to carry that baby to term.
No one locks up someone who says they don't want to do a living donation of an organ to someone else if they don't want to do it. no one tells them they are evil for denying life to another. no one tells them they bad for not agreeing to donate an organ as a living donor. They assess the risks and are told all the risks and then the person who has potential to donate agrees to do so or not. because it is their body and the affect of that donation will affect the rest of their lives.
A pregnancy is no different. A woman just doesn't get a choice in a lot of situations.
@@dragonstooth4223
I came here to add on to this comment, but you responded far more extensively than I was going to.
Big thumbs up to you, thanks for your excellent response..!
@@dragonstooth4223nor do doctors, if it comes down to saving a woman's life, even if the bub inside is dead and rotting, or even has a living twin...
What about equality? What about the man's rights to his unborn baby ?
@@user-rj4yk3ib8xit should be the decision of the couple, if there's no couple than the woman's decision
As Hitchens once said:
"I'm perfectly happy for people to have these toys, and to play with them at home, and hug them to themselves and so on, and to share them with other people who come around and play with the toys. So that's absolutely fine. They are not to make me play with these toys. I will not play with the toys. Don't bring the toys to my house, don't say my children must play with these toys."
A good friend of mine once gave me a wonderful gift. We somehow ended up talking about religion over lunch and he stated that he believes the earth is only six thousand years old and clarified her meant regular years. We talked back and forth about things like fossils and such when he then shared his gift that enlightened me forever. He explained that he believes that because he CHOOSES to believe it. No apologies.
This helps me understand how people can possibly support DT.
What I'm struggling to understand is WHY they choose to support him and the republican mentality.
"One of the hardest decisions a woman can make, Isn't yours."
“Billie Jean is not my lover…”
@@jimohara wrong.
Yes another dude pushing his views on the woman's right to choose.
@@Dark_Bandon EXACTLY!!! Women should judt say to the world..i.e. men..the "shop" is cloded!! No shop..no pregnancy and no abortion! see what happens then
@@Dark_Bandon The misogyny badge is a mark of achievement in the Maga Scouts😑
You don't need religion to be moral.
I would argue that you have a much better chance of being moral without religion.
It's an interesting one where morality and ethics are kind of different things, and religious people tend to have morals, while secular people have ethics.
If that didn’t come through it says,
A religious person will do what he is told no matter what is right, a spiritual person will do what is right no matter what he is told
He was very respectful and engaged in a good dialogue.
WTH was that > a rational and compassionate discussion between 2 grown men...YESSIR! You go David!
Always is with David
This is what the religious will never understand. Their religion prevents THEM from doing certain things. It doesn’t prevent ME from doing anything
😅💯
Totally agree! I am religious but I don’t think my beliefs should affect others.
I've seen so many posts about abortion doctors being heroes. It's kind of gross the way the Left can minimize abortion, maximize abortion, and just almost make light of it. I was raised by a very pro-choice family, but once I had a baby, I started to realize that it's a tragedy. Each abortion.
I think the caller may have been trying to send the message that the Right actually thinks it's murder, and therefore, unless Trump kills a baby in the middle of 5th avenue, they're probably thinking they've got the high ground.
From a scientific perspective, it's hard to dismiss that it's a potential human and if we discovered any kind of zygote or a single cell in the rest of the galaxy, we'd all be stoked on the Left.
Abortion doctors should be seen as necessary and providing a service, not heroes. Personally, that seems gross to me.
@@kendrabryant4738 I agree with you what I believe is my belief and I don’t think anyone should push your belief on others even if right or wrong
@@lora3530But if a person could generally prove what they believe to be factual then it would no longer be a belief, it would be a fact. That almost never happens under most circumstances actually.
The problem with a lot of these people is they pick and choose which parts of the Constitution and Bible they want to follow.
Precisely. Jesus (New Testament) never said anything about homosexuality or abortion, and while Leviticus (Old Testament) calls homosexuality an "abomination", it also condemns eating shellfish (so, no trips to Red Lobster for you!), pork (so, no bacon nor Chinese food for you!), men shouldn't cut their sideburns, women should retreat to separate quarters for a week while in a menstrual cycle, and about 70 other condemnations that I am sure 99% of so-called "Christians" who will vote for tRump again do not follow.
They also don't follow at all teachings that Jesus actually said, such as Matthew 19:24.
Right.
Both are horrible documents that are extremely confused. Neither one should be used to make your world view on. Think about it the constitution makes no effort to place checks and balances in place to stop corruption. The bible is made up of stories stolen from other cultures, out right lies and no known source, just some anonymous writers with no connections to those they wrote about many generations later.
Yup - the bible has a recipe in it for abortion but they never mention that. It's also filled with references to the breath of life. They don't even read it anyway.
Correct, they cherrypick because they want any and all systems that they engage in to work for them and never against them, thus they make excuses as to why they don't follow certain things but enforce their own interpretation of whatever thing they like the idea of.
They want to be included into groups without actually following the groups rules. They want their cake and eat it too.
This was an excellent debate. We need many more like this, and this is exactly why I watch David Pakman!
David, you are very smart and always give your points in factual words that should be easy to understand by all.
Also, how can a man who talks as intelligent as the caller does support someone as evil as Trump what so ever ?
To my ear he sounds well rehearsed, not intelligent. He can lay out an argument like he's reading from a script, but he does not respond to or engage with the counter argument.
@@gilberthamilton9312 It also sounds like he's not ever engaged with someone like this, so he is a little surprised to not hear the normal things he hears all the time.
Unfortunately, there are plenty of intelligent people who support Trump. From my point of view, simple aware intelligence should preclude many viewpoints and behaviors, like being Republican in the first place, or Christian, or bigoted, or misogynistic, or violent, or deliberately wasteful, etc etc. People disagree. The variety of human experience is amazing.
politics is not rational.
While I disagreed with the caller's arguments, that was infinitely more civil than just about any Trump supporter I've heard. We are in dire need of more interactions like this.
Agree completely, the guy stirred up a lot of smoke, but that's all there was, he never showed where there was a fire.
No. The more appealing their manner, the more insidious they are. Trump is an evil man, and even if he were not is incompetent to hold the presidency. His supporters are advancing an evil and incompetent agenda. Whatever their arguments, they are wrong. There is no point in trying to understand them. We know all we need to know about them.
True... which is why I'm thinking how can a civil decent human support Trump? I have not listened to the entire piece yet. But I guess maybe I need to...
And impressive trump supporters😂
Yeah, I am not used to a Trump supporter sounding so civil and display efforts of critical thinking. Although his attempts to go after David on inflation comments struck me as clutching at straws, and trying to find something to criticize him when there is nothing there. Anyone who thinks critically about inflation would notice that Biden has done a good job with it and things would be worse under Trump in that department.
Religion has no place in politics full stop. I agree with the American constitution.
Nothing conveys one's point of view better than when one spells out the '.'👈🏼 (full stop)!!😂
religion has no place with the reasonable
@@thunderpooch
"religion has no place with the reasonable"
One step further -- religion has no place with the SANE !
Period.
Full Stop.
@@CherDelevery good job arguing the points and not using ad hominem.. oh wait..
This is why the Founding Fathers deemed *ALL* religions unfit for modern, civil governance.
_“The United States is not a Christian nation any more than it is a Jewish or Mohammedan Nation.”_
*- John Adams* (American statesman, attorney, diplomat, writer, Founding Father & 2nd president)
The *1st Amendment's Establishment Clause* prohibits the government from making any law, _“respecting an establishment of religion.”_
This clause not only forbids the government from establishing an official religion, but also prohibits government actions that unduly favor one religion over another. It also prohibits the government from unduly preferring religion over non-religion.
*Constitution Article VI Supreme Law - Clause 3 Oaths of Office*
_"The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; _*_but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."_*
This means nobody is ever required to swear to a god or on the Bible, or any other religious book for an oath of office. They may choose a god or religious book, but none is required.
Thomas Jefferson and Calvin Coolidge did not use a Bible in their oath-taking ceremonies. Theodore Roosevelt did not use the Bible when taking the oath in 1901, nor did John Quincy Adams, who swore on a book of law, with the intention that he was swearing on the constitution.
_"In this enlightened age and in this land of equal liberty, it is our boast, that a man's religious tenets will not forfeit the protection of the laws, nor deprive him of the right of attaining and holding the highest offices that are known in the United States."_
*-George Washington*
_“...the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion."_
*-Treaty of Tripoli - June 7, 1797. Signed by President John Adams & Ratified UNANIMOUSLY, by the Senate June 10, 1797*
....only a few times in history the Senate unanimously agreed on anything.
A 2018 Supreme Court Ruling re-affirmed this statement, from The Treaty of Tripoli.
The Supreme Court released an opinion on May 14, 2018 in Murphy v. National Collegiate Athletic Assn., 584 U. S. (2018), Justice Thomas in his concurring opinion wrote:
_"The Treaty of Tripoli was passed by the Senate and signed into law by President John Adams. As such, it is a "legislated text" which must be read "textually". _*_The lower courts in this case read a hypothetical legislative intention into the text by dismissing Article 11 as "a mere formality". The language itself makes a clear direct statement that our government is not based on the Christian religion_*_ and any attempt by a government official to represent our government as Christian contradicts the text and the historical understanding of our founders."_
I don't know who you think you are but this sort of mature, civilized, grown-up conversation about resolving and understanding differences in complex opinions has NO place on the internet. Thank you. That was amazing, subscribed.
Huh?
@@philipliethen519 sarcasm
@@mr_mr Most definitely, sarcasm, and obviously so! Unfortunately it goes over the heads of some people.😉
David Pakman your rebuttals are precise and you don’t get rattled even when being interrupted.
I am Catholic Christian and I agree whole heartedly agree with David! 🤦🏽♀️ If you don’t believe in Abortion; don’t have one! Why should you want to stop someone, who doesn’t have your religious views, from having a a much needed an abortion. That is crazy!
Christians in the US often want to interject their morality into legislation, especially on the Evangelical side. Abortion is a health care issue and a practical reality that many conservatives don't want to examine critically how it was before abortion was legal. You can already see the effect in some states of it being essentially banned, where rape victims are being forced to carry their baby to term and threatened with arrest if they try to cross state lines to get an abortion. Others are even worse when miscarriages are forced to be carried for months threatening the life of the mother. I've been an atheist for a long time but used to be a practicing Catholic, and I believe even the catechism even has some morality clause that abortions can be acceptable if the intention isn't to kill the fetus in attempting to save the mother's life.
The church is full of sociopaths. Way too many people wave around the word “Christian” as a free pass that it automatically makes them a good person. Nothing could be further from the truth. So many use Christianity as nothing more than a phoney facade. They are just narcissistic people masquerading as Christians who seek to control and impose their views onto others.
Please understand that the Conservative movement with Maga considers itself a Christian nation and want G/d back in schools etc. There is a strong bias against Catholics even if their members are Catholic.
Conservatives are mostly Protestant.
Agreed.
I am Catholic too. I agree with you and David.
Bottom line is that no one gets to force others to conform to their religious beliefs. Period.
That's what is so fantastic about our constitution. Those men were brilliant!!!!
Their so called religious "rights" cannot trample MY "religious RIGHTS"!!!
Very smart argumentation, very respectful. Great job David!
Why should I as a nonreligious person have to observe any religions' beliefs in my personal life?
If I wanted to observe Christian morality, I would go to church. If I wanted to stress dressing modestly, I could join a mosque. I want none of those things. So I chose to leave the church. The church should not be able to force me to follow their rules by making them law.
Faith or religiousness is a private and personal choice. You don't need to attend church or groups to live life the way you choose. People are known by their deeds not their words.😊
There are zealots out there who want to tell other people what to do. And they live in a modern liberal society where that immoral urge is seen (correctly) as evil, wrong. So the only strategy they have left is to play the victim, to lie to the rest of us that our freedom is their oppression. When really it's the opposite: THEIR idea of freedom is oppression.
The caller is one of those many misguided people who think morality comes from religion. And not just any religion but only MY religion.
In a country that says you have rights, like freedom of religion.
Exactly
How in the world is there a single Trump supporter left, with all the facts we know of the Mango Mussolini?
Its mind boggling!
Bubbles protect
Group think. Whatever you don't call them out, they get a bit huffy.
Stupid people flock to stupid people. If people want to throw their money and time at trump………….you do you
your assuming trump supports can read ...
@@dragonstooth4223
Nope, just like their dear leader, they watch their news.
This was a civilised conversation, which is not very common nowadays, especially with topics such as these, so thank you for both of you.
The killing part about his argument is, regardless to how courteous and intelligent he was, he still couldn't wrap his mind around religion not being the nucleus and foundation for which all laws derive. Religious people never understand why others want separation from their religious beliefs until the beliefs of another religion is forced upon them.
That dude must be so tired after going through those mental gymnastics in justifying his poor choice in supporting Dump.
The Dunning-Kruger was so strong with this guy! He thinks he is intelligent, but so obviously can't absorb information that destroys his narratives. The rank hypocrisy of his deliberate attempts to frame it is obvious to anyone but him...
He initially sounded articulate enough, but then offered nothing of substance to the debate ...a complete waste of time.
Trump is only an option because of a Biden and Harris! That’s the problem!
He's working himseslf into a mental frenzy because of his utterly closed mind.
The caller wants Trump in power to hurt people, especially women
I'm curious why most of the people who would say that abortion is murder would be in favour of the death penalty.
because babies are innocent and murderers are not
People who say abortion is murder are good at dehumanizing others. They may say their concern is about the fetus, but the truth is that most are actually dehumanizing pregnant women. And if you cam dehumanize women that easily, of course it's not a problem to dehumanize folks on death row.
@@BrokenWillHow about those whom are killed under the death penalty and found not guilty afterwards?
It's called hypocrisy.
A better question is why those against abortion are also against food stamps, medical aid, etc. In other words, if they don't really give a s*&t about the baby after it is born why do they care beforehand?
This can’t be an act of faith if a choice isn’t offered to the individual.
It was refreshing to hear a civil debate.
I am a woman, and I am sick and tired of men telling me what can and cannot do with my body... I was raised LDS.
Well then you have had more than your share of men telling you what you had to think, say and do. I hope you get everything you want in your future.
Thanks Jim 🤣@@jimdavison4077
As a man, I am deeply ashamed that men are doing this to women. I cannot fathom how we landed here in this era. A woman's body, a woman's choice. Unless the man was raped (yes it can happen to anyone who thinks it's a joke), he shouldn't have gotten a woman pregnant if he wasn't willing to take the risk of her controlling the outcome of the birth. This is just logic.
much appreciated, if men wanted to stop circumcision, I would completely support that, I just want the same body autonomy.@@NeonKix
There are a lot of conservative anti-abortion women out there, too. Not just men.
How religious people can support Trump is beyond my understanding.
Especially since he is the closest thing to the anti-Christ that this country has EVER seen.
it makes perfect sense
hint hint: religious people are not rational or ethical or moral
religious people are illogical first and foremost. and then they're concerned with power.
Have you read the old testament? It’s an immoral book about an immoral malignant narcissistic god.
They aren't religious, or spiritual. They certainly don't follow the prescribed doctrines that are the foundation of their 'faith'.
Anyone supporting DT today must be a sociopath. They fear and attack educated or wiser/compassionate people that are more moral than themselves.
Because you have to be low IQ to be religous.
Great conversation between 2 people with opposing views. No personal attacks, name calling, cursing, etc. This needs to happen all over the country. Thank you David and Schmule!
David, your proficiency in debate is truly remarkable, as you consistently employ logic and reasoning with finesse to present your arguments. Your ability to dissect complex issues and articulate your viewpoint with clarity and precision sets you apart. This methodical and insightful approach to debate is strongly reminiscent of Sam Harris's style, known for his articulate discourse and thoughtful analysis. Your skill in navigating discussions, much like Harris's, demonstrates a deep understanding of the subjects at hand and an impressive capacity to engage and persuade your audience through reasoned argumentation.
Cheers!
Trump 2024 is an expiration date NOT a political slogan 🙄
So true 👍🏻
This would be great! This would make Americans grateful again too!
@CherDele hope I'm correct. Another 4 years of the ORANGE ONE will seal America's fate as a global embarrassment under Trump(the 1st time) and if it happens again - America's DONE FOR ✔️
That's great! 👍
we shall c... signed, reluctant Democrat
David is right on point. Nobody 's religion should be reflected in policy.
Nor should it be respected.
I disagree. If your religion guides you in a way that can also be backed up by science, I think it's as acceptable political tool as any other spiritual guidance you may have - humor, music, naturalism, etc. For example, Judaism tells us to care for our neighbours - if that helps drive the argument that we should care for our neighbours because of basic human decency - great. As a secular Israeli Jew I don't mind and even kind of like seeing that being brought into arguments, I just don't want THAT to be the sole argument. Religion can't be ignored, and when secular people try to abolish it entirely from the political field - it only makes religious people more protective of it. And that protectivness encourages bad politicians to latch on to that fear of "anti-religiousness" and use religion as a political argument, rather than an embelishment of a fact-driven message.
You did great David. The conversation was relatively civil, although he kept up with the ad hominem like attacks. Well done sir!
Give Schmoodle and David credit for being courteous and listening to each other's views without yelling, interrupting and name calling. Enjoyed this respectful conversation.
How can one get angry with one that is so lacking intelligence to have critical thinking skills. You can try to educate until the cows come home but you’re up against low hybrid vigor. This poor kid was indoctrinated; brainwashed as a child. Use this example as a warning to parents before they take their babies to church.
Yessss! It was really good to hear 1 civil conversation without name calling or yelling, it's been a long time.
Agree
My thoughts exactly! Great interview David!
yes this was so pleasant to listen to!
So his argument against abortion is basically, "think of the feelings of religious people!" Their feelings are more important than the life of the mother. Insane argument.
He didn't say that, and he said personally he believes in exceptions to protect the mother, but that if one could come up with a civil law reason then his belief that it is murder could be a driving reason for pushing for laws to protect the fetus. We should at least try to understand the argument so we can better argue against it.
@@gliberty42you just said the same exact thing with more pointless words. You change the word feelings to beliefs on abortion. Same sh*t.
@@gliberty42the point is: that guy’s beliefs are irrelevant when compared to reproductive freedom.
He thinks his religion is more important that other people's, and gets to make the choices.
He also admits that Presidents don't have 100% control over inflation, but blames Biden for inflation. Biden's policies didn't create the inflation, but they did help bring it down, as can be seen by comparing US inflation to that in other countries.
He can't be reasoned with, because he hasn't used reason to reach his current views.
I hate the idea of abortion it makes me feel sad but making it illegal ,taking away a person's rights is wrong and even worse some of the horrendous cases such as handicapped females who have been abused and are now pregnant, female children who have been raped and are pregnant, any female who has been raped and is pregnant, women whose babies died in the womb, women who are carrying unviable foetuses, women whose health or life is at risk if they continue with their pregnancy, ectopic pregnancy, and other possible reasons why a pregnancy should not continue should be exceptions .
Sadly i do have personal knowledge of a young woman who had 3 abortions before giving birth to her now soon to be 4 year old and she is only 20 years old now.
Education helps
Contraception should be free and should be readily available to anybody who requires it.
The pill
IUD's such as the coil
Condoms
Moon cups
Arm implants
And any others I've missed
Sterilisation for those who want it .
Injection like depo provera I'm not sure what is currently available
The morning after pill
Fast track abortion services for those who are in the very early stages of pregnancy .
If these were all free,
non judgemental ,
Did not have a string of conditions to qualify for it would be so much better.
Men who want vasectomy should be given free treatment .a woman can only get pregnant approximately every 9 months generally speaking but a man can impregnate several women in one day every day .
The cost of medical care for a pregnancy and the birth and medical care of the child let alone the cost of all those unwanted children until they are adults must be huge .one IUD one injection, some condoms surely must be a better option ?
Why is the death penalty ok, but abortion is not.
You have enlightened this Trump supporter and hopefully many other Trump supporters.
If you don’t agree with abortion, don’t have one! You don’t have the right to tell others how they should live!
Right! I'm pro choice but never had an abortion.
Exactly! 💯
They don't even say the real reason behind their opposition. There are probably some regular people who really do object to abortion on the grounds of seeing it as akin to murder, but that is not at all why right-wing thought leaders and pushers take this position. Granted that the true motives to which I am alluding are basically open secrets, there is still no doubt in my mind that being honest and transparent about them would certainly result in very large number of people becoming very angry (and rightfully so).
I't very dishonest, to say the least, and I have no respect for it whatsoever. As if that wasn't bad enough, the real motives are disgusting, repugnant, and immoral.
Noticed how republicans are so obsessed with women and trans genitals? They’re so creepy
@@amarisimpson1506 I will one up you. I am against abortion and am pro-choice because my personal opinions do not get to dictate a woman's life or choices.
Don't need any religion to be a moral person .
💯❗️
Exactly, and so many"religious" people are immoral. @@jaefrmbk2k
Agree!
The poorly educated needs it to be moral but it's a double edge sword
exactly.
i tried to tell a person this and they attempted to try to tell me well god put morals into you
i said that's YOUR BELIEF. but that's not what happened in reality
i told them its more complex than just that and we are every complex and can learn through history and have an understanding of empathy, which has to come first before morals
they just could not accept that. they've been so indoctrinated into believing that the god they believe in made you one way and it cant be any other way. I find that a lot of organized religious folks...their way or the highway. no if and or buts or in-betweens with them i.e. fundamentalism like this caller
And then im like, what about the other 1000 religions that say otherwise? who's right and who's wrong?
they short-circuited after that...
you just earned yourself a subscriber. and it’s refreshing to see a younger generation carrying a very important torch.
Nice to see a intelligent respectful discussion about opposing views without the need for insults or screaming for change
People have an absolute right to be religious. What religious people do NOT have the right to do is to force their beliefs onto the rest of the population. Period.
They have the absolute right to vote their conscience though ... howsoever it is arrived at! It hardly matters (at the individual voter level) whether their personal ideology is religiously based... or rationalist... or comes from long periods in the bathtub intently staring into their navel!
And, if the Christians genuinely believe that abortion is murder, then they MUST vote for a general prohibition at the federal level.
Alternatively, WE should seek a codification of the absolute right of abortion access at the federal level.
But, if Christians believed that we shouldn't eat pork, this would be a category that is best addressed at the personal choice level (clearer food packaging laws and transparent labelling) rather than as a general prohibition.
This is because laws should impact personal freedoms to the least extent possible. But Murder is NOT one of those types of issues that can be dealt with at the personal choice level.
And, sure, we can argue the science... but ultimately we live in a democracy (or, more correctly, a psephocracy) ... and NOT a technocracy/scientocracy. So whilst science may try to guide us, ultimately we are free to vote for the unscientific. This goes for Christians too. So there is NO requirement for them to yield to the academic view - that's not how a democracy works.
And all of this has NOTHING to do with separation of church and state.
Basically, if we don't like what they're doing - then we need to vote our OWN consciences - rather than try to argue that they can't vote theirs. Surely.
And, just to be clear, I am VERY much pro-abortion.
@@garychap8384: For all proLifers:
Is it OK to let taxpaying women die in order to 'save' a dead, still-born, nontaxpaying fetus?
Is that not murder?
@@garychap8384 I like your comment. My problem is my state represtative promotes & is a Christian Nationalist. No rights for anything #Lgbtq or trans...All issues matter to me but this rep desparages so many...all for financial & political gain. She does not speak for me & I will vote accordingly. #SaveThe14thDistrict #Georgia 💙
Another jew here, I agree with david 💯 but I also think he missed the argument. Not saying he would have convinced the caller, that would be a miracle (and a mitzvah lol) however if he acknowledged that caller believes (keyword there) that juxtaposing religious beliefs and science as two sides of the same coin they might have had a substantive conversation. Of course science and religion are NOT the same. Faith is defined by the absence of evidence of course. Any way, already too long comment.
Exactly
I’ve been a registered Republican my whole adult life. How can anyone listen to one sentence out of Trumps mouth and say “that’s my guy”? Mind boggling. This guy sounds very intelligent which makes me wonder how he could back MAGA even for a minute.
He probably isn't a MAGA nut. His religious beliefs chain him to the Republican party, so he wouldn't consider voting Democrat.
So you're voting for Biden? I hope so!!
I must be honest, I fail to see the difference between Trump and the people who came before him in the Republican Party except that Trump says the quiet part out loud. Joe Scarborough talks about this kind of talk as “throwing red meat to the base” (which does kind of mean that he thought of Republican voters as some kind of animal while he was in office)… that was in the 1990s. What you see from Trump has been the Republican Party for as long as I have been alive, they just used to use polite language.
@@aidancampbell5644exactly. They've been racist ass holes.
Trump is not overtly speaking to the classic core constituency of the Republican Party, which, given the legislation it passes demonstrates a platform of limited social services, maximum defense, tax cuts, and a public relations strategy to minimize Democratic use of the national credit so Republicans can maximize the use of public credit for their agenda. Republicans are not opposed to the government borrowing money, they are opposed to Democrats borrowing money. I've noted less empathy for the sick until Republicans themselves get cancer or some other life-threatening malady. Then empathy becomes a thing. Trump has no felt empathy, but he can read what a lot of people want to hear, and he delivers enough to win votes. He's a dangerous demagogue. I would encourage spiritual, pro-life Republicans to consider the American Solidarity Party, although its social services agenda may be very hard indeed to swallow.
David you are an absolute doll, a gentleman and scholar. You are so cool and so prolific I love how you take phone calls from the opposite side and a few whackos in between and still are not ripping your hair out. We all appreciate you out here. Forever.
That conversation and exchange of opinions gives me great hope. Thank you both.
freedom is a tough pill to swallow when u wanna impose morals on others
U relize that not many people actually like freedom at all but many love to say the word . It's weird how delusional people like to be
@@komlat253hence religion.
Conservatives are full of contradictions. Their two biggest catch phrases are "Freedom" and "Law and Order". It's mind boggling they think these two words can appear in the same sentence.
I believe there's a Almighty Creator but I'd still be considered a Pagan because I Don't have No Religion. Also there's Plenty of Atheist that has Morals and Common Sense but as We Listen to this Religious Guest and like the Rest of the MAGA Cult he Lacks Common Sense and No Shame!😅
@@komlat253 I disagree. I think we’ve set up a society where freedom and security are in direct opposition.
Thats a systems problem. It’s why all of our systems are broken.
You did well David. This guy is a trump supporter and trying to sound reasonable. His arguments didn’t hold water and to be Frank, he only dug his own holes. His logic was illogical…
At least he speaks coherently, though he is in deep cognitive denial. When David reports objective facts such as inflation rates he is not being particularly political. The phone guest is doing exactly what he accuses DP of doing. Total brain-wipe.
How can this caller support an immoral bigot like Trump?
As all MAGA'S logic is illogical.
@@eo6311 Would have liked to hear David ask this caller how much the 8 trillion dollar Chump deficit in just 4 short years contributed to higher inflation under Biden.
Why can't all political disagreements be handled an amicably as that? Kudos to both Dan and the caller.
This is why it's called "free will" You choose what's right for you. I myself could not have an abortion, but I have not right to tell someone else what to do.
You can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can fool trump supporters ALL of the time.
🤡 🥴
after jan 6th if you told me trump would be evens favourite to win in 2024 i would say you were off your head.......how can this guy keep fooling you americans
That's FUNNY ASF !!! MAY I USE THAT PLEASE ???
Hahah this is a great repurposing of the classic phrase, love this
Says a Biden sock puppet voter who gets their "truth" by watching CNN and tiktok. How is that bidenomics working for you? Still living in moms basement?
Separation of church and state. Period
That's why the FF left Europe and England in the first place. And now all the Republican's who CLAIM to be constitutionalists are trying to impose "GOD" into politics.
the reason "in God we trust" is on our money, is that back in the day currency had to be blessed by the puritanical God... otherwise no one would have used it to pay tithe in church on Sunday... and the framers knew separation from church had to be the foundation of the new Republic they were forming. A new government of the people, for the people and by the people... so they could get away from King George and his Church of England.
And as David pointed out, there are religions in direct conflict. My religion supports women's rights and healthcare.
As an outsider ... wasn't the USA founded to get away from the religious oppression in England? It's a little ironic when England is now 40% non-religious wouldn't dream of imposing crazy laws (I hope) 😬
@@njones420 You are 100% right! Roughly 250 years ago the colonists wanted to worship Jesus the way they wanted to, and not have the church of England be so overbearing on doing this way or that way. That is the separation of church and state. Unfortunately, MILLIONS have flipped it around implying or outright stating you can't have God in any of the USA politics or laws. This is incorrect. Many of the forefathers went to church and believed in God. It's common to have corporate prayer before a legislative session starts. We dearly need the wisdom of God in both the house and the senate and even with the executive branch. If we are to turn this nation around it won't be by man's policies and man's thinking, we need the wisdom of God involved in our nation and in our laws. This is the reason why God has blessed the United States of America is because we have embraced Him through the years. But, as you know the USA is quickly getting away from any assemblance of morals and doing the right things. It's no accident that we have so many oil reserves, and gas reserves underneath our ground here in the states. God saw we were serving him early on.
Separation of church and state is a bedrock of our constitution. The tenets of ANY religion cannot and should not be used to form or evaluate laws. To do so would bring chaos.
This caller didn't call to debate he called to manipulate David into saying what he wanted David to say.
I'm a Christian and have been for 30 years, and I agree with David that it all comes down to personal choices
Yeah because you can't live for God and Go against anyone
Same. It isn't right to inflict a persons religious views upon another. No matter the religion. We are supposed to lead my example.
@@garylefevers don't supposed to mess with anybody because God is the Judgment of all of us
@@toneyingram732 In your opinion....
Mate, give the religious rubbish a miss. I’m a lapsed Catholic and came to the enlightenment that religion is nothing more than a construct created by men to control others. Give your invisible “friend” a total miss because there is no logic in reference to religion. Grüße aus Australien. Tschüss.
Biden is doing a good job fixing drumpts mess and this guy just doesn't want to admit it. Typical drumpster.
BS... 🤣🤣🤣Poor you living in your glass castle.
@@carmendasilva600 Poor you living with your cult mentality.
This discussion, and so many like it, demonstrates so depressingly that one cannot reason with a religious person when it comes to certain issues. They operate on a completely different premise (wishful and magical thinking, essentially) such that there is no changing their minds.
For starters, abortion isnt murder. Murder carries with it a specific legal definition to different degrees. Should your unfounded religious beliefs play any part in determining legality. I'm glad David touched on that. If my religion says that white people aren't allowed to drive Jeeps then my beliefs are irrelevant. Rational people aren't going to let someone else's unproven religious beliefs govern them
David is such a reasonable debater and really knows his facts.
Keeps his Cool like a champ! 🏋
😤👍💯 YES HE SURE DOES!💪👏🏆
He knows which ‘facts’ to tell and which ones to not mention. That’s for sure.
@@jimohara😅
This was refreshing to hear two people disagree in a civil discussion.
Cringe
@@TheNiftyManiac absolutely agree
it's sad that it is notable
Caller - you put your points very well. I applaud you for that. David, you did the same. I enjoyed that conversation.
Here's how I take it. "That's against my religion I can't do that." = perfectly acceptable. "That's against my religion YOU can't do that." = unacceptable
Did he call you just to affirm that he has no good reason to vote for Trump?
Yes. And he did a fine job
Some dude who will never get pregnant thinks his book gives him the right to influence the reproductive choices of people he doesn't even know.
🎯
And you know everybody?
And it's only that dude's (or more commonly his leaders') interpretation of that book that leads him to that idea.
Taking it a step further, why are MEN "dictating" what RIGHTS women should have based on their OWN personal opinion and not on science. 🙄😒🤦♂️
@@donniehagy5125 WTF! Did you brain just suffer an aneurism?
religion that demands respect is worthy of none and should be disregarded as such.
Don’t be afraid to be confronted. They’re just trying to bring out the fear in you. Make sure you have plenty of your boys around too but don’t back down bc it gives them credibility.
Caller,
How about the government just stay out of the doctors office and leave the full and unadulterated decision up to the individual, full stop.
Nah
yep@@steventhomas3481
@@steventhomas3481 😂 Nah, (Perfect response). I’d rather impose my beliefs upon someone else and screw up their lives because that will make me feel morally superior and I have nothing better to do.
Love the way Pakman doesn't roll his eyes, grimace, mug for the camera. Cool, calm, collected, and competent. Keep it up.
Absolutely agree
yes.
This is a perfect example of how a conversation between 2 people who have differing viewpoints should go. Calm, no name calling etc. thank you David & schmul!
They always want religion involved as long as it's their religion.
The government should not be involved in a woman's choice if she wants to keep the child or not.
I agree unless taxpayers are paying for the abortion.
It is not a child or baby it is a foetus !!!!!!!!!!!!! Religion is totally nonsense
'Aight; nobuddy's talkin' about adoption tho, dawg...
@@fayhays8618let's face most of the choices are by people that can't be a parent. Don't want to be either. Most have drug problems . Abd can't support them anyway. You want to foot that bill x 150,000. The way it's set right now it's cheaper.
Some Religious people think we have to comply to their beliefs...
WE DO NOT.
Some? I think most
The belief that your spiritual wisdom makes you more special than others is also known as spiritual narcissism.
@@algregory6597 I want someone... anyone... to explain to me what differentiates the 'spiritual' from the 'imaginary'. Been asking for 30 years and no answer yet.
@@HalfCrazy520 I cant wait for the day when someone running for anything has the balls to say enough NO i do NOT believe.
@@richoliver1095 Rich, for people like us (I stopped believing when I was 12) it all seems so silly... childish... inconsequential.
As if believing something without evidence is somehow a virtue? Shouldn't we prefer to KNOW things rather than BELIVE things?
What makes me nuts is that religious people think they have a corner in the moral department and they don't understand how insulting they are when they say secular people can only learn a moral code in a religious setting, that's total crap.
Thank god I live in a country where medical assistance in dying is legal and available to me when the pain gets too much. The religious lunatics in 40 of your 50 states say it is a crime. Hands off my body!
The shocking thing about that phone call is that someone can actually speak coherently and still support Trump. I didn’t think that was possible.
The worrisome thing is that Trump supporters believe that Trump cares about the unborn. He only cares about votes and the overturning of Roe v. Wade was nothing more than a political stunt.
At least his comments were conspiracy free.
Blaming President Biden for the inflation caused by mr. trump's mishandling of the pandemic is a conspiracy.@@user-oy1gp7mo3u
I wish Shmool would have provided that secular argument against abortion. Almost got there.
He still supports a serial liar, conman, and crook.
How did it go? Very civil, finally a Trump supporter who doesn't spew straw man arguments, ad hominem, or insults.
I think that trump supporter is beginning to realize that people who believe in the Biden administration are people that have sense.
He also tried to put words in David's mouth.
I'm surprised there's a relatively intelligent Trump supporter out there that is able to speak rationally. He agrees that Trump fearmongers but still supports him, fascinating.
@@NeonKix I have to admit, he did seem as though he was too smart to be a Trump supporter
How could Jews be for trump?? He loves hitler!! He thinks there are fine people on both sides! He kept mien kraumf on his bedside! How stupid are they? Don’t they remember the holocaust?
Religion does not belong in making laws of rules. Keep your religion at home and between yourselves
!
better yet, just come to your senses and give it up entirely
This was the best conversation between a Trump supporter and the other side that I have ever seen. You both were polite, repeated the others' points, took turns speaking, did not get angry, and seemed to respect each other.
What I find frustrating is people like this guy that say "I hear you and I understand what you're saying" when clearly they don't. They immediately return to the same argument over and over with absolutely zero comprehension of the constitution.
I think they’re just placating to move on to getting their point across.
Orthodox Jews are very extreme. He's struggling to square up the American way with his deeply ingrained religious upbringing. We should give him credit for trying.
And neither of the two guys are even mentioning women’s rights over their own bodies. I’m sick of hearing men’s opinions about this issue. I’m kind of surprised that David never brought women’s rights up. They got stuck on the religious aspects.
@@joannemiddaugh122 Whose rights did you think he was talking about, men who abort their babies???
@@joannemiddaugh122David is speaking up for the right to choose, and you're crapping all over him. Stop trying to drive people away from the choice option.
Don't complain about the gender of an ally. That's madness.
You could argue with this guy all day and never convince him. He's Maga.
He could argue his points for hours, but his real problem is that thinks Trumps would fix any of it.
It’s a combination; cultish religion and an inability to admit a mistake.
@@janinegrey6937 and ignorance. There’s so much basic ignorance just of economics. Don’t. Get me started on vaccine stuff.
I mean, after all, strapping Judaism to nationalism is an idea that David supports. He just doesn't support it in any other case.
Typical brainwashed lefty talk all day about the Constitution, until the 2nd amendment comes up.
Pakman U impress me with your intellect & demeanor all the time . U handled that quite well , respect !
Confusing religion with morals. Our foundational beliefs are based on what we’ve learned and believe in, and should be involved in creating laws, but not religiously bound.
Separation of church and state. Period, your religion is not to stop my or anyone’s freedoms.
Period😊
First amendment protects only a person's right to believe, not religion. They can't stand that, and that's why the founding fathers put it there.
same...and let churches pay tax. and vote blue💙🫂🌊🙏🙏🙏🙋
The caller is one of those many misguided people who think morality comes from religion. And not just any religion but only MY religion.
Agreed! One can be moral without being religious.
@@annedouglas9769 it's quite easy being moral and atheist, just treat others the way you want to be treated... sadly religious folks need a "god" to tell them that, or to tell them who to hate
Humans have created their religions based on their morality and not vice-versa.
I noticed that as well. The caller framed it as moral vs secular when in reality they were arguing for religious vs secular. Morality is is not a belief, it is a value practiced or not practiced in civil society.
Excellently done David!
David -- your patience and clarity are admirable. Bravo for your ability to hold such a discussion.
Excellent discourse on both sides! How awesome to witness 2 people of opposite views interact in a patient, intelligent, courteous, civilized manner! This is what we’ve been lacking in America, especially since Trumpiocchio!