I'm for DSP with caveats, if the perceived sound quality for the human listening is improved, I'm for it. But so often, I've seen people chasing the perfect flat response and end up with a sound that is lifeless and boring. Also, recordings can sound so different from one another, as do sources, and so is DSP the total answer. I remain open to being convinced.
I get it, but the irony is that DSP allows you to do more that just a flat response. The Bacch gives 6 curves by the most famous recording engineers and their flavor... Plus you can manually change things to whatever taste you want or even account for hearing loss. Thus, it's the ONLY way to do all those things. Now with measurements in your ear at the listening position, they are also the most accurate measurements possible.. Versus estimating in the past. Once you hear perfectly corrected bass though, I seriously doubt you will go back to not using DSP. The fear of accuracy and high fidelity is unwarranted over the long haul of most recordings... You can always find examples where flat isn't preferred, but you'll see that accuracy wins the war regardless of an individual battle.
Yes, agree. But it is worse than you say.. I would say that "what you could have" (that those that don't DSP/measure "could have" as frequency response in room.) In my experience that in not "could have".. It is more that they "most probably have". And shit out from speakers gives shit in to ears.😂 (No you have not any golden ears and can't detect and determine that it is -8 dB at 731 Hz and +7 dB at 941 Hz and so on in your sweet spot.😢) Even IF you could detect the level of dB deviation and at what exact Hz and they for ≈12 places in the hearable frequency range (that you can't).. What are you going to about it?? Can you move speakers so that ALL the 12 dB deviation points will get ±0 bB. Or change one to all components that fix all the 12 dB deviation points.. No, whatever you do you will never fix your issues at sweet spot that your are not even realizing that you have 12 of them..!❤ Good example! I see those old audiophiles that hide behind that they are "purists"..😅 For me a "purist" means that someone that can't or want not to learn new things and are afraid of newer technology.😂 Today even a ape can carry new HiFi components and connect two RCA/XLR and think it is better but the truth is that it is just different..😂
Yeah it's pretty much a guarantee most are seeing even worse uncorrected and they don't realize the improvement possible. As you say, they hide behind excuses out of either fear, laziness, or brainwashing. The good news is that I'm showing that the fear is no longer an issue (ala Joe Rogan on Fear Factor 🤠). There's a product that will do it all for you no matter how bad it is, but you can also leverage your skills over time to help it out even more.
Still not a great idea to boost dips from phase issues like that since it's forcing the subs and woofers in the main to play harder than they should, introducing greater distortion.
There is a max boost default of 3db in the Bacch so that you don't have any issues. You can even manually change things and go as high as 6 or maybe 9db when your measurements show narrow dips. You obviously don't want it to be totally correcting the entire bass area with that much boost, but Dirac will go as high as 12db as they feel that's still safe enough. The real key though is that the measurements showed an issue where you can just flip the phase and those dips aren't as significant to correct with DSP although it did it just fine and confirmed with measurements.
One other thing to remember is that it's not like old school EQ where it would add gain and digital clipping. They basically bring everything closer down to the dip point versus just adding gain. It also calculates the max dynamic range by using attenuation which is typically inaudible and no different than any digital volume control which are commonplace.
@AudiophileJunkie it is attenuating digitally, but you still have to increase the gain down the chain. The attenuation just solves the digital clipping issue, but the amplifier and speaker will still "see" and be affected by the boost. Many a woofer has been blown by brute forcing eq downlow like this.
You may not be understanding....the max DB boost in the Baach is 2db by default. You can do more if you want, but that's the default and will cure most issues. Dirac does up to 12 db by default and you can watch a video by a guy reviewing the miniDSP SHD that somewhat stupidly added 10db to everything under 100hz (not just select small areas like I'm showing here). He didn't blow anything, but I get your sentiment if that's the tools and skills you're used to seeing on CZcams...anything can be abused in the wrong hands.
@AudiophileJunkie yea, idk if you have a technical issue in your system causing the phase issue but I have seem people try to brute force with eq without trying to fix issues first by moving the speakers, subs, listening position, and exploring the settings or the sub.
MiniDSP SHD Studio completely transformed my sound for the better. Huge positive difference.
I'm for DSP with caveats, if the perceived sound quality for the human listening is improved, I'm for it. But so often, I've seen people chasing the perfect flat response and end up with a sound that is lifeless and boring. Also, recordings can sound so different from one another, as do sources, and so is DSP the total answer. I remain open to being convinced.
I get it, but the irony is that DSP allows you to do more that just a flat response. The Bacch gives 6 curves by the most famous recording engineers and their flavor... Plus you can manually change things to whatever taste you want or even account for hearing loss. Thus, it's the ONLY way to do all those things. Now with measurements in your ear at the listening position, they are also the most accurate measurements possible.. Versus estimating in the past.
Once you hear perfectly corrected bass though, I seriously doubt you will go back to not using DSP. The fear of accuracy and high fidelity is unwarranted over the long haul of most recordings... You can always find examples where flat isn't preferred, but you'll see that accuracy wins the war regardless of an individual battle.
Yes, agree.
But it is worse than you say..
I would say that "what you could have" (that those that don't DSP/measure "could have" as frequency response in room.)
In my experience that in not "could have".. It is more that they "most probably have".
And shit out from speakers gives shit in to ears.😂
(No you have not any golden ears and can't detect and determine that it is -8 dB at 731 Hz and +7 dB at 941 Hz and so on in your sweet spot.😢)
Even IF you could detect the level of dB deviation and at what exact Hz and they for ≈12 places in the hearable frequency range (that you can't)..
What are you going to about it??
Can you move speakers so that ALL the 12 dB deviation points will get ±0 bB. Or change one to all components that fix all the 12 dB deviation points..
No, whatever you do you will never fix your issues at sweet spot that your are not even realizing that you have 12 of them..!❤
Good example!
I see those old audiophiles that hide behind that they are "purists"..😅
For me a "purist" means that someone that can't or want not to learn new things and are afraid of newer technology.😂
Today even a ape can carry new HiFi components and connect two RCA/XLR and think it is better but the truth is that it is just different..😂
Yeah it's pretty much a guarantee most are seeing even worse uncorrected and they don't realize the improvement possible. As you say, they hide behind excuses out of either fear, laziness, or brainwashing. The good news is that I'm showing that the fear is no longer an issue (ala Joe Rogan on Fear Factor 🤠). There's a product that will do it all for you no matter how bad it is, but you can also leverage your skills over time to help it out even more.
Still not a great idea to boost dips from phase issues like that since it's forcing the subs and woofers in the main to play harder than they should, introducing greater distortion.
There is a max boost default of 3db in the Bacch so that you don't have any issues. You can even manually change things and go as high as 6 or maybe 9db when your measurements show narrow dips. You obviously don't want it to be totally correcting the entire bass area with that much boost, but Dirac will go as high as 12db as they feel that's still safe enough.
The real key though is that the measurements showed an issue where you can just flip the phase and those dips aren't as significant to correct with DSP although it did it just fine and confirmed with measurements.
One other thing to remember is that it's not like old school EQ where it would add gain and digital clipping. They basically bring everything closer down to the dip point versus just adding gain. It also calculates the max dynamic range by using attenuation which is typically inaudible and no different than any digital volume control which are commonplace.
@AudiophileJunkie it is attenuating digitally, but you still have to increase the gain down the chain. The attenuation just solves the digital clipping issue, but the amplifier and speaker will still "see" and be affected by the boost. Many a woofer has been blown by brute forcing eq downlow like this.
You may not be understanding....the max DB boost in the Baach is 2db by default. You can do more if you want, but that's the default and will cure most issues. Dirac does up to 12 db by default and you can watch a video by a guy reviewing the miniDSP SHD that somewhat stupidly added 10db to everything under 100hz (not just select small areas like I'm showing here). He didn't blow anything, but I get your sentiment if that's the tools and skills you're used to seeing on CZcams...anything can be abused in the wrong hands.
@AudiophileJunkie yea, idk if you have a technical issue in your system causing the phase issue but I have seem people try to brute force with eq without trying to fix issues first by moving the speakers, subs, listening position, and exploring the settings or the sub.