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3 ways to live loop like Elise Trouw - hands/pedal free using Ableton and ZenAudio
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- čas přidán 15. 08. 2024
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UPDATE: Unfortunately Zen Audio have stopped selling their ALK software. However, please do watch through that part, as I later explain how to get similar results with Ableton Live.
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TIMELINE:
00:00 Intro
00:35 Demo session
01:40 Method 1 (ZenAudio ALK)
03:35 Step-by-step
06:15 Method 2 (Abelton)
08:50 Method 3 (Abelton IAC)
13:45 Demo + Sequence
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This clip explains three ways to live loop without touching a pedal or controller.
If you've seen clips of Elise Trouw live looping, aside from being an amazing artist, you've seen her effortlessly live loop without touching a looper. All she does is play her instruments and sing, and the parts she plays loop, stop looping and then come back in again automatically at just the right times.
I've seen comments to her clip saying it's fake - that someone's pressing looper buttons for her, or that it's all just done in post, but that's not the case. Live looping without touching a pedal is very possible, and in this clip I show three ways to do it.
The first (and probably best) method is using software dedicated for this purpose, called ZenAudio ALK. It supports plugins and there are many benefits to using it, and you're not missing much by ditching your DAW.
However, it only currently works on MacOS, and since I realize some people may feel more comfortable with their DAW, I also show two more methods to achieve the same goal with Ableton Live.
The more complex method is how Elise performs - using an IAC driver or loopback software like LoopMIDI, Bome MIDI translator Pro or LoopBe, MIDI YOKE
I also show a simple method, using automation of Loopers in Ableton Live.
I love loopers - they're a great way to play solo with multiple different and varying layers. However, dealing with a looper is a distraction from actually playing music, and it's virtually impossible to tap dance around a looper to naturally bring parts you recorded in and out at just the right time.
Controlling loopers is probably still the only way to go if you're jamming, but if you're playing a song it typically has a pre-determined structure, automated looping is a great way to help you focus on your music rather than operating a looper.
Here's Elise in action:
• Elise Trouw - Radiohea...
NOTE: Occasionally I’ll try out affiliate marketing and include affiliate links. This means that I may earn a commission when you click on or make purchases via affiliate links. The content of this clip is entirely my opinion, and was not paid for or dictated in any what by the company creating the gear. Without addressing the particulars of products shown here as they might be under NDA, gear shown on this channel may be either sent by the manufacturer, on loan for review or bought at a discount.
![The Best Guitar Amp In The World [And Tips On Using Pedals With It]](/img/n.gif)
Get ALL my tips in one convenient place: Check out my In-Complete Book of Electronic Music Ideas, Tips and Tricks: patreon.com/loopop
UPDATE: Unfortunately Zen Audio have stopped selling their ALK software. However, please do watch through that part, as I later explain how to get similar results with Ableton Live. Unfortunately Zen Audio have stopped selling their ALK software. However, please do watch through that part, as I later explain how to get similar results with Ableton Live. Also, check out Nabla Looper for Reaper - I've not tried it, but it's worth a shot if you don't own live: czcams.com/video/LmMO4KhsxLI/video.html
Hi there, I have ZenAudio already, but I'm finding a bunch of issues with it, and now there's no support I don't know how to troubleshoot them. Would you recommend just ditching it and going with Ableton?
@@kirstylouise why not try? Ableton has a 90 day trial going on now
@@loopop I already have Ableton, I found out about Zenaudio and got excited because it’s a lot simpler and to the point for this. It’s disappointing they’re winding it down, I would like to keep using it but I’m not sure it’s worth the time investment if it’s going to have issues that won’t be fixed or supported.
@@kirstylouise indeed disappointing - there’s a reason I put them first, however, in light of how operating system updates tend to break unsupported software, ALK probably wouldn’t be a good long term bet (just like Ableton Live 8 or 9...)
@@loopop oh... I have Ableton 9... it’s not supported in Catalina? I’m about to upgrade my computer
Thanks for this. My entire Twitch performance has been built using method 3 from this video, and I want to say a huge thank you to @loopop for this brilliant video. It does take time to sequence the looping, but the benefit is a stable looping environment where you can focus on the performance and forget about pedals! I also use a ‘cue track’ where I tell myself what to play next (and remind myself of the lyrics). The possibilities are endless!
I have been wondering about how this works for a long time, and I feel lucky to have found this video. Excellent description of these methods. Thank you!
Best video on looping ever!!
@RickySweum, well we did cover this in class way back in 2016 ;-) Lesson 5, I believe. Ableton's Looper is certainly the easiest, it works just like a looping guitar pedal, only better (more features). But with the an IAC bus control you can map out a much more complicated live looping performance, including loops of different lengths and changes in your arrangement, such as muting a loop after you've recorded it and then bringing it back in all hands free. The downside is that you need to follow along with your mapped out game plan or you can easily end up lost. It's really the most powerful and flexible technique but it certainly requires a lot more planning and rehearsal, versus just looping away with Looper.
Auto punch out for Ableton: m.czcams.com/video/XJCLVWmfOd0/video.html
Great video for multiple approaches!
I'd like to add that for the IAC approach you can get away with doing it without an external midi controller for mapping. Kind of a hack I used when I was away from a midi controller.
1. Create a midi clip on a new midi track with a single instance of the CC or note you want to use. Set midi output to IAC.
2. Play the clip.
3. Stop the transport (not the clip.) The clip should still have a green play arrow that is paused.
4. Turn on midi map mode and click on the parameter you want to map.
5. Press spacebar to start the transport. The clip starts playing with the midi CC or note. It should map to the selected parameter.
6. Hit spacebar again to stop the transport.
7. Leave midi map mode and delete midi clip (or just change value for next mapping and repeat.) Your parameter should now be mapped to that midi CC or note.
As someone who also teaches music technology I really value your videos! Thanks!
Thanks for your comment!
ZenAud.io - Now available for Windows PC!! Thank you for this simple explanation.
Well it is available for Windows, but it doesn't work on my Win10 64 Pro because the ASIO4ALL drivers crash my BEHRINGER drivers. I need a Mac.
Auto punch out for Ableton: m.czcams.com/video/XJCLVWmfOd0/video.html
@@JDNicoll $150 for just that?
@@jt9800 It's $129 for the package of three devices. Audio or midi alone is $60. tinyurl.com/yatxbm9f
If you loop instruments, it's indispensable. If not, maybe not needed.
Zenaudio is now officially dead. Just 5 months later. :(
dude you have helped me a ton. Not just this video, your videos are just incredibly helpful. Thank you.
Singlehandedly the most useful looping video I have seen to date! Thanks!
Auto punch out for Ableton: m.czcams.com/video/XJCLVWmfOd0/video.html
This is literally EXACTLY what I was searching for. Thank you for this awesome and very helpful video!
Auto punch out for Ableton: m.czcams.com/video/XJCLVWmfOd0/video.html
Whoa this totally blew my mind. I have been trying to wrap my mind around how she did that for a long time and you solved it in a 15 minute video. Great stuff!
I’ve spent the whole day trying to figure this out via experimenting and watching videos. This video was definitely the most clear! Thank you
Auto punch out for Ableton: m.czcams.com/video/XJCLVWmfOd0/video.html
I just saw Elise Trouw for the first time minutes ago and had to do some research which is how I got here! Thanks!!
That ALK Zen Audio looper is pretty great. Works as advertised and has been super easy to stay in the box and make music. Finding it hard to record and arrange on the fly, that software makes it seamless.
Some of the most useful minutes I ever spent on youtube, thanks a lot for this!
OMG im so thankful i ran into this video!
LOVE IT! thank you for explaining so quickly, clearly, and simply :)
The technical side os great but more importantly you have told us how to create a very convincing renditio of Feel it Still with just a bass, a drum, and a lead. Thank you!
Hey bro, lil late but I found your video today, and it helped so much, so I made the timestamp for ya :V just put this in your description 👇
Timestamp:
00:00 Intro
00:35 Demo session
01:40 Method #1 (ZenAudio ALK)
03:35 Step-by-step
06:15 Method #2 (Abelton)
08:50 Method #3 (Abelton IAC)
13:45 Demo + Sequence
What a feat of technical wizardry to achieve a smooth flow in a process like this with pre determined record, play, loop and stop processes.
Thank you so much for this tutorial! I'm getting into live looping after a while of wanting to do so. I already know how to play piano and electric guitar, but I'm still learning about live looping. Thanks again! I'll check out the rest of your videos.
dude that thing in the beginning is beautiful
The biggest drawback to method 2 is that, as far as I've been able to tell, you have to have the audio monitor turned on for Looper to get any input. Which really sucks if you're trying to keep stuff in perfect time (like you'd want with looping). Monitoring is best done through your audio interface for the lowest possible latency.
Thank you soooo much! This is what I’ve been looking for for a longtime. Really helpful!!
Just saying ... thank you so much for this video... I've been struggling for quite a long time...your a lifesaver ..
You’re welcome my pleasure ;)
Wow. Thank you very much! Too bad I havent found this earlier... gotta think about how much spirit of „traditional looping“ is still in there, but great that these options exist!
Yes, this seems to me to be more like pre-programmed multi-track recording rather that what I think of as 'live looping' but it's amazing what these musicians are doing. And I'm going to have fun giving it a go :-)
wow so a bunch of these "live loop performances" are actually so intricately planned out with all the instruments, loop lengths, pre-amps/fx pre set up in the daw! never realized
I always wonder if it's cheating...I like to use it with a drum track and sequenced looping and I feel kind of guilty haha. I don't like backing tracks but I think this is a decent compromise for a solo performer.
wait, so you're saying she actually had to time her walk from the drums to the bass to be exactly x bars because the recording start/stop are pre-determined? I thought it would have been some super fancy edge triggered mechanism.
She shuffled ;)
Not only that, but she did it after 3 bars which makes me super uncomfortable because that either means the bass loop point is halfway through the drums or she started the drum beat halfway through the loop! I mean it’s amazing but as a performer it stresses me out!
Yeaaaaaaaahhhh method 2 is what I was looking for for ages 🙏🏻😍 thank you so much
This was helpful. Thanks. You may want to note that Ableton Looper does not actually loop MIDI, but the audio output of a MIDI instrument.
This was great! I'm going to use method #2. I'm currently running my live set in session view, so I've been thinking about using ClyphX to trigger automation for the looper (which it doesn't do, to my knowledge). Maybe I'll have to run my songs through arrangement view. Thanks so much - a whole new world just opened for me!
this is an eye opener ...thank you so much.
Thanks a lot for posting this. I'm so over all the commenters basicly calling Elise a liar when she says in her video descriptions that they are done live in one take. Not that she doesn't reherse but she DOES do the finished vid live.
RADThird1 thanks and yeah - if you need proof check out her jimmy kimmel performance - the clapping at the beginning of the first loop constantly bleeds into the first loop and you hear it throughout the song. No one would prerecord that
how come you never hear a metronome in her videos or live performances?
Ollie B I don’t know this first hand but there’s a little earpiece in her ear so my guess is it’s there.
that's interesting. I guess she would have to press play right on the downbeat of a separate metronome that is programmed to be the same tempo of the session. and give her self some bars before she has to play
Ollie B it’s really super simple - all she has to do is start the sequence just like I do in the clip. The first couple of bars can be a metronome as part of the sequence, and then the looping starts. Once she records the drums, the metronome isn’t even necessary
much apreciated man, thanks
Unreal man, thank you so much! So hard to find a succinct tutorial for these techniques.
Method 2!!! So stupid simple.. How I didn't thought about it? Awesome video 👍 👏👏 thanks!
I bought Zenaud.io based on this video, and it was great. The only real drawback was that you needed to already be versed in VST and Audio Units, as well as bring your own, to really use it.
Sadly they have since gone out of business.
been looking for a simple looping video for ableton this works great thanks.
I love you bro. Awesome and simple explanation!
there seems to be an ALK2 for windows from Zen Audio. nice video easy to understand.
Thanks so much! Not sure why anyone wouldn't just use method 2!
Method one is more tailored, but compared to 3 for sure
i like the nethod 2 but it has some limitation, since you are using the play button and not the recording button, everything is gone once you hit the stop button, also as mentioned above , when you are working with multiple armed tracks at once you cant turn off the monitoring otherwise the looper won't record anything
I use option 3 not for live looping but in order to arm/disarm tracks at various points in a live show so that I can control multiple synths in ableton from just one control keyboard. Kinda fiddly to set up, but it works.
Mind blown! Thanks loopop! Gonna use this asap
Excellent video. Thanks for taking the time to explain it
Third method seems best, to be honest - it's more intuitive for anyone who has used (or seen) an APC/Launchpad/Push controller. It's like sequencing the button presses so you don't have to have hands on it!
Also, I haven't tried it yet, but I imagine you could use a hardware sequencer to control Ableton Live and treat it like a loop-pedal (instead of a DAW). I am going to test this with my Digitakt today!
Jamie you know, I understand where you’re coming from, liking method 3 if you’re used to session view but live looping this way is really more like sequencing/arrangement than the improvisational grid based sessions imho, but if it works for you, great! And yeah hardware should work too!
Programming Ableton to control itself could be tough for some people to wrap their head around, sure. But using an external sequencer (another DAW or hardware, mpc, etc) and that thing controls synths, and Ableton is just another "midi module" in the rack. At least that's how I looked at it when I tested :)
Yes, it does work very well. Problem with Digitakt is that the note comes back around and hit's "play" again, even if you stop that clip. The sequencer is too short (no song mode...)
Yes, USB or MIDI both work.
What I meant is you can't have it record a loop, play for 8 bars, stop, and record a new loop, etc.
Oh, maybe with pattern chaining? That's gonna be a little nuts. And MPC would be much easier to turn Ableton into something like the first method. I bet it would work with a hardware looper pedal too (RC-505?)
Awesome, thanks a lot!
ZOMG! You are our new best friend!
Live Loopers where have you been all my life!
Was just about to ask the same thing. Just added your channel to our featured channels.
legend. thanks
Thank you!!! Great video!
Awesome! 🤘
the owner of Zen Audio released his program for free use just last week, and it's available for windows now too, so thats pretty cool news..
Well, actually, for the moment it ONLY works with windows, which is quite ironic... I'll have to go for 2nd method, I guess, unless there exist a substitute for ALK which is still maintained.
Thanks Bruu
Excellent video - thanks!
ZenAudio looks so simple and interesting to use compared to the other methods. It's available for PC too. I'm going to play with the demo version over the weekend.
@jekennedy108 Good to know, thank you. The demo worked out well for me for home use but if I was to use it live I'd be far more concerned with the bugs. I decided not to use it anyway as I'm currently leaning towards live hardware looping.
Super well explained...thank you
Thanks Loopop.
great video. fun lil jam at the front too :-)
Great video man! I just not tried the first option. I agree with you, the last one is the best one.
My God I’ve been dreaming of this for so long and saw a complex method years ago but never expected it to be made so easy! Thanks for this awesome video. The other part I dreamed of ten years ago was to apply groove quantisation to parts and even tweak the quantisation in real time using a knob controller. Can this be done now or just the straight quantisation you mentioned? To record a percussion part and then quantise it into a John Bonham groove in front of an audience would be unreal.
Thanks ;) It depends if you’re taking about zen audio or live. For zen audio, no, but email then, who knows... for live, it’s just like anything else - if you can to it in live, you can include it here. I’m sure there’s a groove/swing plugin somewhere (which would also then most likely work on zen audio tracks)
Thought we'd chime in -- so currently you can't quantize to a groove in ALK; only to your standard 1/4, 1/8, .., 1/6 (triplets), etc. The usual. However, one thing we do differently is that you CAN assign a knob to it and alter it in realtime. The reason is that in ALK, quantization is not a function -- you don't quantize the notes once to the grid and then they're moved. Instead, the original position of the notes is stored, and we shift the notes in an online fashion according to the current value of quantization amount, which of course can be automated. This allows you to start a song with a fairly loose groove, and then tighten everything as more elements are introduced. Please note that this also currently only works for MIDI, unfortunately, though we certainly plan to have extend our audio warping code to handle that. Hope this helps :)
+ZenAud.io , What about a windows version of ALK. Plleeeaaassseeee.
It's definitely planned, but it's not going happen right away, I'm afraid. We want to spend some more time on Mac honing the product and really nailing the feature set before moving to other platforms.
Extremely useful. Would love to see if/how this could be done with an iPad too.
qwe1231 hopefully ZenAudio will come out with an iOS version... though with clever midi loopback it might be possible
qwe1231 touchable pro...
Awesome video! Thank you!
I assumed she had a bunch of foot pedals all over the floor to control everything regardless of where she was sitting / standing. How interesting!
Súper cool and useful
This was very helpful. Thanks!
i dont have that automation option and i also dont have that looper ableton plugin
It doesn’t exist in all version of Live. Check out the Melda looper as an alternative
What's cool is if you have an Arturia key step like that, or even an op-1 or any other midi controller with a sequencer built in - then you can do the IAC driver method without any automation. (The sequence is run from the same keyboard you are controlling with) :D
True
Would you have a video it doesn't need to be yours) or a quick explanation in how to do it? Looks now we have plenty of options to MC with built in sequencer. Any of them would work? Thanks.
@@fabiofazmusica I don't actually know if there is a video on doing it that way or not. I will make one though on my other channel @synthshapes. I think the nice thing about doing it the way I'm talking about, is it eliminates the need to do all that loopback/IAC driver confusion because you're just using a sequencer to control it (have it tempo synced to your project) instead of having to "connect your DAW to itself" through software. Which in my experience also can cause latency and other annoying issues.
@@brodiecole8856 thanks man! Looking forward to watch your video. Meanwhile ill buy a Midi controller - sequencer - keyboard.
Shame ALK2 from Zen Audio is no longer available as it looked great here.
Thank you 🙌
Great content. Thank you.
Thank you!
my big question about all this though is LATENCY. I get about 8 - 10ms of latency, which means when i record though audio (like how she does with drums or bass or guitar or vocals) i get a delay when looping so each time i lay down a loop it gets more and more out of time
Awesome, I learned a lot!
Well explained
You are a life saver!
My pleasure ;)
Super Tutorial!! Thanks...
Thank you so much
Well done!
Really useful, thanks
First off thanks for this wonderful content! For live looping you prefer this over the looper pedal? Also please, which midi controller/virtual keyboard is this? Looks amazing, I mean the screen one. Thanks Loopop!
Thanks for the kind words! I prefer a pedal to this for "regular" live looping, but for arranged live looping, nothing beats Ableton Live and the technique I show here. The little synth is an organelle.
Thanks so much for this vid. I've been thinking of a similar concept for years - a way to grab loops at the beginning of a performance and distribute them through a song - but never knew that I already had the software to accomplish this (Ableton Live) all along. This nails it.
This is a highly disciplined approach to looping, diametrically opposed to the traditional freeform improvisational approach. That's not a pejorative comment, it just a new and different thing. It needs a new term. Is "hands-free looping" the new term of art?
Or should it be "foot-free looping" :)
Dope theremin!
great video thanks a million
you saved my life!!!!!!
Do you know if is possible to program live loop on Logic Pro X like you show?
great job thank you!
badass lol. “ill show you...” hahaha. very well done.
Nice little dragon loop there
Thank you for demystifying this! So you basically have to have the whole structure mapped out up front. this is not a technique for live jamming. Sort of like learning a magicians secret, it ruins the fun of wondering how it’s done but I am glad to know that I’m not as dumb as I thought I was. ;-)
Hits hard considering ALK is free now(but support is discontinued).
Did you get it? Are you a Windows user?
This is great!
Windows version ALK coming very soon.
RIP Zenaudio ALK2. It's officially not an option anymore. The owner stopped selling the product as of the 5th of October.
bummer
Thank you!!!
Awesome video! Any chance you have the download and Authorization key for ZenAudio ALK?! I know the company closed a few years back and stopped selling it. I haven't been able to find it anywhere online. Currently using Ableton and Push 2. Would love to try out the ZenAudio. Thanks!
Thanks! No I don't but you should be able to get to very similar results with Live using "method 2" in the video
@@loopop Yeah Ableton and Push 2 are awesome. Thanks for the reply! Best wishes!
how do you even begin to do something like this like what is everything you need
Hi! Awesome video, I am thinking of going with a Boss RC 202, DAW methods feel a little shaky to me :(.
What is the blue box you are using for percussions? I am looking for standalone synth and percussion hardware.
It’s called Organelle
Elin how are you getting on with your Boss? I have the RC505 and feel the same! Especially for performing live, this software feels so foreign to completely change to... tempting to try tho!
@@danielawilliams7911 I do not still have it in my hands. I am getting an RC30 btw.
I have a pedal board for my guitar and It wont pick it up in sound all it says is Asio4all?I clicked all of them no sound comes from any of them...
If you use Ableton and play real instruments with different vst's you will need to 'automate' the recording, and the looper alone won't help, that is when things get complicated, IAC is Apple only, and I haven't found a way to make this work on PC yet, all tutorials show old versions of Ableton and things derail quickly. Also ZenAudio is no longer available, tried Reaper scripts, but those are very limited
Heyho thanks for the nice tutorial !! I am wondering if anyone knows what this keyboard like Instrument is called ??
thank you for this!
Thanks for the video. Pretty clear and well delivered. Btw, anybody knows if the ZenAudio ALK is back available? Any new versions or did they just simply disappear from earth?
At 11:02 you switched to Arrangement View then double clicked on measure 1 then a Place for you to put midi notes just appeared on the bottom portion of the screen how did you do that mine does not do that.