Why People Misunderstand The Meaning of "Size Matters Not"
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- čas přidán 12. 09. 2024
- Another shortman for y'all because it's about to be a busy couple months.
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Oh, I forgot people think The Force Unleashed is good.
Depends on what you think is good. What shonen anime is to mass media, the Force Unleashed is to the Star Wars IP. It has its place, but I'd never really call these the same cup of tea. Neat video btw
I love it, but the power scaling is BONKERS
Jedi knight academy is very goog.
its a fun game
😂😂
Please don't ruin this for me it greatly helps in my relationships
🤣
"Search your feelings. You know it to be true."
Star Wars helps your relationships? Really? In that case whomever you are with at the moment, treasure them and never ever let them go.
IM A GROWER I SWEAR
@@StephenLeGresley it's the "size matters not" meme I think
In Clone Wars I like how Dooku gave Savage a variation of this lesson. "The task is only impossible because you have deemed it so." He's not literally saying anything is possible so long as you believe, just that you have to believe in yourself to achieve your full potential. It's a nice nod to Dooku being Yoda's apprentice.
No. It's not a nice nod. It's a pretentious derivation.
@@Eldarion561 I don't agree because obviously Dooku himself is a pretentious person. It's a nice nod from the writers of the episode because they're using pre established character history to drive dialogue
Oh fucking A I forgot they named a character Savage and then tried to pronounce it Sa-vahj. Cringe ass character lol
So that's why savage is able to choke centres and dooku at the same time?
@@mrzirak792 Yes but honestly that moment was made retroactively bullshit by the kind of skewed power scaling in Star Wars. Savage got nerfed after he found Maul
Starkiller is excusable as a videogame power fantasy. He's almost like the doomslayer or something. It's fun, it's cool, it's awesome. It should not be canon
I prefer looking at it as a dramatization where Starkiller represents the factors that lead to the Rebellion's success, but personified as a single OP hero. It's pure headcannon but it's fun to think about
Also at the very least we saw that it was taking a lot strain on his body. It also helped that the star destroyer wasn’t actively flying away from him.
Except he didn't pull the ship from the sky. He took a ship that was already about to crash and redirected it into the ore cannon. There's nothing canon-breaking about this feat. Starkiller isn't even as powerful as most people think.
@@vetarlittorf1807 he moves a massive object much quicker than Yoda moves an Xwing. I'm aware of the details, but I don't think they matter.
He literally loses to Palpatine, a CANON character.
I think the not-yet-Darth Zannah said it best:
"But while the Force may have been infinite, her ability to draw upon it was not."
Another commenter has already mentioned the Matrix, but I think it's a comparison worth expanding on. The people in the Matrix live their entire lives believing that the Matrix simulation is the real world. It is incredibly difficult for its inhabitants to accept and internalize the notion that it is entirely fake. But once they do, they can manipulate the simulation, hence the "bending the spoon" scene.
"Do or do not, there is no try" and "Size matters not" operate on the same logic. It's not simply a matter of thinking something is possible, or really wanting it or whatever.
It requires the user to fully accept and internalize the sheer vastness and transcendence of the Force, to fully and wholeheartedly accept that compared to the Force no physical size matters. But this is an incredibly difficult concept to internalize, as even Force-users are still bound by their perceptions of the physical world. Even if consciously they understand that the Force transcends all, there is still an instinctual, visible difference between a rock and a skyscraper. It is much easier to accept that one of those is of irrelevant size.
One of my favorite old EU books was I, Jedi, which introduced an idea that Jedi could have strengths and weaknesses in aspects of the Force. Like in that book, the protagonist couldn't do telekinesis to save his life (unless he absorbed energy), but mind tricks were very easy for him.
I know it would have been difficult to convey on film, but it's a concept I really wish had been embraced in the prequels. (With one of the signs of Anakin being the chosen one that he had no "weak" aspect.)
Even in the sequels, that could have been cool. It was perhaps hinted at a bit in the PT but they didn't have much time to deal with it
I understood it the way that Yoda was just disagreeing with Luke that a space ship would be fundamentally different from small rocks.
In my perception, Luke basically saw the Force as a "remote access". Lifting things that he could with his muscles.
Luke saw the X-Wing being more than he could lift physically, so he thought it was impossible. But Yoda showed him that it's not your bodily strength that matters, but your attunement with the force.
It's harder to lift something big and heavy. And it might be more than you can do. But it's not limited by your body.
But also because you don't have to interact with it physically, there probably actually isn't a limit to the size and weight, given enough time.
Just like a pen could pierce the earth if fast enough, the opposite would be true as well. You can move anything by a fraction of an inch, if you use the Force. And if you can do that, it's only a matter of how long it takes.
This was part of my understanding too. I always understood the line being about not just the objects being lifted, but the size of Luke and Yoda themselves. Hence "judge me for my size, do you". The point wasnt that size literally doesn't matter, but- like you said- it isnt the deciding factor. One's attunement to the Force is.
The problem with stopping a ship in midair from flying away isnt that jts theoretically impossible, its that I dont buy for a second the vast majority of characters are that attuned to it
I like this interpretation, because it fits with what we've seen on screen. Yoda lifted some VERY heavy objects, but look how much he had to concentrate to do it. He barely caught the pillar before it crushed Obi-Wan and Anakin, and he had to stop fighting entirely to do it.
Yeah I figured this was coming. I have to admit, I really LIKE the idea of the Force being this ultimate equalizer, that size really does mean nothing against it, but that interpretation doesn’t really work in-universe. It would require you to suspend your disbelief in such a way that virtually any conflict with a force user involved should be completely one-sided, which obviously isn’t the best for caring about narrative stakes or action scenes.
It doesn’t work simply because breaking the in-universe rules wasn’t considered.
This was in the same movie as Luke kissing Leia.
They didn’t have the force or even characters fleshed out yet.
The reason it doesn’t work is an inconsistency in power balancing
I'm not nessesarily opposed to ridiculously op feats done with the force, but it needs to be clear just how difficult they are.
Starkiller was supposed to be stupid powerful, and it took absolutely everything he had to drag down an already crashing ship.
In the EU, palpatine actually could destroy a planet with the force, but it was so ridiculously taxing and required such an absolute focus, that building a death star was an easier alternative.
Darth Nihilus was able to drain the life from entire planets.
These things can exist, but they can't be thrown around willy nilly, they have to be reserved for very specific characters, and have very strict limits, or this whole system falls apart
This
I hate how they’ve polluted Sion’s “too angry to die” shtick as somehow something Reva could do. Same with the GI after she stabbed him.
It completely negates what makes the likes of Sion unique and important in the story he was originally presented in. If they were to adapt that story, he would not be as unique now because “he’s too angry to die” has been done and done poorly in Kenobi.
The issue is the force limits / rules were never really fleshed out.
Different tasks were “difficult” depending on the story needs at the time.
If you are talking about the movies, even between the OG and and Prequels (before Disney), there are massive issues of power inconsistencies and what the force is.
I fully agree with what you said. And it could have been fleshed out as a major plot point to show what using a massive amount of force does to someone’s body and mind, but we just get “squinty eyes and shaking outstretched hand”.
@@ForsakenKrioscause it’s not even too angry to die anymore, it’s just “I’m mildly ticked off”.
It shocks me that Disney didn’t just use that to bring back palpatine
@@ForsakenKriosIt started with Darth Maul in The Clone Wars. He pretty much had no character in The Phantom Menace besides looking cool, and yet we're supposed to buy that he survived being sliced in half and falling down a shaft because he was "too angry"?
Sheev as a reviewer: argues correctly why the Force needs limits
Me as a powerscaler: am unfazed by the feats Sheev described as ludicrous because I've seen Star Wars characters scaled at planet busting level
I've seen plenty of people unironically scale Jedi and Sith as faster then light lmao
@@eugger3011 I mean, is that too unreasonable if the feats and/or scaling are there?
@@vaggos2003 Yes, because by that logic no Force user should ever have any trouble whatsoever fighting any non-Force user. And Order 66 should have never worked. Taking individual feats out of context from the rest of the character and then having the most extreme interpretation of that feat is dumb. Especially when used to argue how that character would defeat other much more powerful characters.
In the original 6 films?
@@rayvonvelez3129 More from extended media.
Feel free to check out the Star Wars Death Battle episodes of the last few seasons for a quick example of the scaling I'm talking about.
I’d like to add that Starkiller didn’t pull the Star Destroyer all the way down. He triggered an ire cannon that fired on the orbiting shipyard and sent the ship into freefall. Not to mention that the novelization, which tones down his powers and outclasses the game in terms of canon status, describes him as simply redirecting the Star Destroyer so it doesn’t hit him, not pulling it down. I wouldn’t normally use George Lucas as a benchmark for what is good and bad for Star Wars, but since many people seem to go by that standard then the power scaling in Force Unleashed was approved by him for the EU. That is, portraying the Force in an “exaggerated medium” so the portrayal of the Force in that game is not supposed to be canon. You want the EU canon version go read the book
They also miss the point that a truly wise and powerful Force user doesn't NEED to do showy stuff. Obi-Wan (and by extension, Luke) didn't need to use the Force to crush the Death Star like a beer can, they just needed to guide a single torpedo into an exhaust port. (Foreshadowed by Vader rendering a politically mighty and powerful Moff helpless by applying small pressure to single point on his body.)
You wouldn't need to crash a starship - even a star destroyer via super telekinesis. You'd just need to mind trick the pilot, or loosen a few safety valves, or crimp a fuel hose....
The problem is that writers seem to have no imagination with how to use these vast powers the way a real Order which spent millennia mastering them would.
As a Christian, that “I can do all things through the force who gives me strength” bit made me giggle and I appreciate that 😂
The Star killer feat is so overblown
All he did was push a crashing Star Destroyer down so it would crash into the planet faster therefore it wouldn't kill him, and he didn't even believe it was remotely possible to do so until instructed by Koda.
And even then it took absolutely everything he had to do that.
He's not grabbing it out of the sky and spinning it like a pizza.
There are so many other feats in Legends that are so much more powerful than this, it's a joke.
In any case he grabs and crushes mid-flight tie fighters with ease in tfu2, so my perception of starkiller as a character is pretty soured in general
also no i just watched that, that was fucking insane. you can’t do that
There's an arc in the old Clone Wars Multimedia Project where a Knight under Ki-Adi Mundi's command, Rivi-Anu, pushes a crashing Star Destroyer back long enough for her corps to get out of the way. The exertion of this _does_ kill her, but not before her friends escape.
If you're going to do something like this, make sure it has consequences for the user. It shouldn't be something that doesn't just take a _tremendous_ toll on them.
I agreed until I saw him actually force it downwards, that's too much, the depiction is what ruined the scene, he can't I pick it up so there's that but it seemed if it was closer and not moving, he could pick it up.
Thats because star killer had his wheatabix in the morning. Having wheatabix gives you a lot of both force and physical energy.
I swear to god, I would never implement a world building aspect as otherworldly and mystical as the force, because shitty writers would just twist it to fit whatever garbage they wanted down the line.
The OT needed Deathnote style mid-rolls with rules on the force, said plainly, so idiots who can’t write can’t appeal to the poeticisms of the likeable frogman to excuse their failures.
Rules/Limits/Downsides for any magic/superpower in a fictional universe is necessary. Otherwise, you end up with situations like "If x power exists, then why didn't y character use it in z siutation." Leads to writing headaches
Otherwise you end up with speedsters lmao.
My thing is that it's one thing when they introduce a new concept at a later point in the timeline, but it's a whole other level of stupidity when new abilities are shown in media that takes place BEFORE other movies and shows chronologically.
Like, is it kinda hacky and dumb to introduce "force healing" (the kind that we see in the movie) in the literal last episode of the saga? Sure. But at least you can think "maybe this was the first time in-universe it was done". It's narratively annoying, but logically consistent.
But when you show Darth Vader using the force to stop a ship from taking off, now I'm spending the entire rest of the series that comes after the Obi-Wan show thinking "why doesn't he just do that again?"
Option B, just get good writters in the first place.
@@theimpersonator7086Explicit rules, however, can very easily destroy the mysticism & spirituality. It becomes a form of engineering rather than spiritual, a mechanical system.
You have to be very, very careful in general & keep things implicit.
It doesn't really matter if you do this or not for hack authors. Hacks will throw out the rules you establish.
Honestly the trick is to just not farm your writing out to other people. That includes the absurd amounts of nepotism present in TCW.
Limiting the space wizards is smart, making the force be an unlimited capability to just do whatever you believe you have to do is just dumb, and leaving yourself a lazy cop out instead of having to have characters find creative ways to work within their limits instead of just having them do whatever they needed in that exact moment then just go "It's just the Force innit?"
A OP and limitless force is basically the same as Speedsters really, just asking for a bunch of plot and character issues.
So this is symptomatic of sheevs rather mediocre explanation of the topic at hand.
What he should have mentioned is that the force itself is an eternal, omnipotent and essentially barely understood eldritch cosmic phenomenon that defies explanation or quatification. That doesn't mean that any person who happens to have the genetic gift of a strong connection to the force is just a demigod by default as it's explicit in every star wars medium that a user's ability is capped by their willpower, mental fortitude and concentration ability
@@wizard_of_poz4413 Still force wielding and powers have no limits and each time someone comes with a new idea of what it can do. There is a sith that could absorb planets, Luke Skywalker shutting black holes down and in canon each time we have more rocks being lifted, bigger ships being stop midflight, force zoomcalls, force healing, force ressurrection... This distinction between the wielder being limited and the power not calls for power creep and dragon ball z escalation.
@joaopedrorosa6198 well there's nothing inherently wrong with creativity or evolution of people's abilities so long as there's some sort of logic to it.
This is after all part of the fantasy genre so you sorta sign up for that
@@wizard_of_poz4413 actually, "Magic systems" have a Lot of ways to be build off. There IS a case where The Magic has a set of strict rules and chracters have to use those rules with creativity to get out of situations (mistborn as an example). To stories where several authors Will leave their Mark indeed having a more strict Magic system looks more suitable to avoid continuity problems. In a novel we can talk about How once one of The greatest Jedi Master lift a Very heavy rock. In another a padawan pull this trick like IS nothing. Exactly like sheev showed. Yoda trying to lift a rock with dificult. Obiwan throwing 200 of that like IS nothing...
This is a very solid interpretation on the matter, and I feel really elucidates a system that is left intentionally vague. It really is all about limits and what someone is capable of in that moment, and using Yoda as the upper limit of what is possible seems to be a pretty good place to draw that line. I personally see using the force similarly to flexing a muscle. One can absolutely train that muscle, and Yoda has trained it for the better part of 900 years, but even he can do only so much. A bodybuilder can train to deadlift 400 lbs, but he won't be lifting any cars anytime soon. The force is absolutely a soft magic system, but that doesn't mean you can do whatever you want.
The whole "flexing a muscle" concept also makes sense to explain why Force users aren't constantly using Force push when fighting non-Force users like Jango Fett or General Grievous. They CAN do that, but it takes focus, which is very hard to do if you're being constantly barraged with attacks.
Counterargument!: The implications on the canon are not damaged bc to take the statement to mean that you can blow up planets would be a No Limits Fallacy. Yes, Yoda doesn't imply a limit. However, one can always neglect to mention limits to something bc it is understood that limits lie at SOME point, the implication of anything being limitless being reasonably ridiculous or impossible in conversation...yes, even with the Force (Well, the use of the Force a single person may have).
It still has a few issues, like Dooku escaping. However, it's easy to view that as a plot contrivance to not end the war right then & there, rather than something that should retroactively change our understanding of the Force. If better written, any use of the Force should do that, but it demands very little to appeal to the idea that the case should be ignored there. Yoda being too old can also reasonably explain how he struggled to lift an X-Wing, so there is no issue there.
5:27 That Star Destroyer was still moving toward the ground, Starkiller just moved its direction slightly so it wouldn't kill him.
Vader's comment about the power of the living force is greater than that of the Death Star makes sense since one force user getting coached by another force user was able to destroy it. It wasn't easy and it required a lot of moving parts but they did.
But there was a requirement and it wasn't performed like an everyday routine and I think that's what most people failed to understand about the force
That’s not how this works. By that logic, the rebel alliance is as powerful as the force, since they could destroy a Death Star too.
Starkiller cutscene was a disrespect tbh. The Star Destroyer was already coming down to the ground, all he did was merely pull it down alongside the gravity which was affecting it, so that he wouldn't get smashed by it (hence why it crashes into the ground in front of him).
citing starkillers star destroyer pull down as an "overpowered move" as earlier cannon had examples of yoda smashing together 2 trade federation landing crafts in 2003 CW
Actually, the point is that any size can be overcome, but not by believing in yourself.
I like to compare this to The Matrix. In that movie, it's made clear that you can die if you are shot in the Matrix because the body can't live without the mind. So if the bullet feels and seems real, your mind makes it real. But as Neo accepted the interconnection of the Matrix, he overcame the limitation of the mind and as such bullets could no longer hurt him.
With the Force, you can indeed lift the Death Star if you wanted to. So long as you accept the interconnection between the universe and the Force and completely let go of doubt. Just like accepting the interconnection between Atman and Brahman in Hinduism.
However, that is an EXTREMELY difficult task for a mortal mind to accomplish. But the point is that it's not impossible.
The problem is that was not what Yoda said.
I agree with you, but the simple fact is Lucas and his team weren’t thinking about “power creep” or any implications like that when they made this scene.
Keep in mind this was in the same movie where Luke French kissed Leia.
@@FilmFlam-8008 Luke didn't kiss Leia. She kissed him.
Yoda is a little guy, but has been doing the Force thing for 900 years. So yeah, he can do stuff that punk Luke, son of the chosen one, can’t do. But Yoda did expect Luke to eventually do stuff like lift that X-wing. In fact the little green dude was excited when it looked like he was going to succeed in lifting the starfighter.
The whole point of the scene was summed up in the exchange:
Luke: I don’t believe it!
Yoda: That…is why you fail.
Luke’s own preconceptions we’re holding back his potential. Yoda already told him to ‘unlearn’ what he had learned. Luke had the ability to move a multi ton vehicle, but his belief in what was and wasn’t possible got in the way. But does that mean he would be able to snatch a starship out of the sky as it was accelerating at multiple G’s? I doubt it. Maybe knock a small ship off course with a massive push, but more powerful feats would require such a knowledge and connection to the force as to be a part of the Force, like an avatar.
I will call BS on Yoda straining to lift stuff during the Dooku fight, unless we are to believe his Gremlin Buzzsaw attacks exhausted him and he didn’t have any level 9 spell slots to upcast telekinesis.
Just to add to your commentary on the Force and the Death Star, I see that scene mostly as some clever foreshadowing from Lucas rather than just worldbuilding. He says the Death Star is insignificant compared to the Force. We then see this fulfilled during Luke's trench run when he uses the Force, the torpedoes go down the shaft and the Death Star is destroyed.
I like this interpretation better because, as you said, people can misunderstand this line and think that only if we had a strong enough Force-user we could see someone literally crush a Death Star Starkiller style or something stupid like that.
People like to claim that midichlorians demystified the force but really, having force using characters be able to pull of ridiculously over the top stunts where theyre pulling star ships out of the air, or hurling dozens of massive boulders around, or accidentally shooting force lighting with zero knowledge of it, or having a character force push someone when a day ago they couldnt force pull a tea cup to them is what ruins the mysticism of it all. Like.... When its a half dozen people in the galaxy that can tap into and successfully use the force its a mystery. When its an entire order that has devoted several generations of study to the ways of the force and still not having complete knowledge and control of it, its mysterious.
But when you have characters that know next to nothing of the force pull of miraculous stunts, or characters that have "cut them selves off" from the force for 5-15 years with no practice pull of these awe inspiring feats..... Its just power creep. Bad power creep at that.
Why must everything increase exponentially?
More power, more unnecessary spectacle.
And also less effort for a character to obtain those skills.
It diminishes the struggles and achievements of the heroes from the previous films. It wasn't easy even for Yoda to lift the ship, but in the sequels it is nothing at all to hold the ship at full speed.
Where is proper character development with a set of early established rules?
You can make a new story without inventing world breaking bullshit just to show something new to your audience.
But it requires an actual effort and a passion for storytelling, so nah.
Sadly every big franchise suffers from this problem.
That's the only way bad writers know how to increase tension
Yes thank you! Biggest world building misconception.
Also another one yoda does not talk backwards. He speaks in shakespearian language, which involves speaking in unconventional sentence structure sometimes. This got ruined when George doubled down on the prequels, but especially in tcw
Damn the Yoda one is insane because now that actually tracks and I never picked up on it because I grew up with the prequels and clone wars
@@pablolacalle6098 ik. Dave filoni has ruined more than you realize 😏
Thank you! He speaks in clear normal structure at times. As usual GL ruined his own creation ("nooo! moment edit long after the special editions which were supposed to be definitive when Anakin finally picks up the Emperor to destroy him is another example.) The issue is the "feel" for a universe's rules and proper art design, etc. is not equally distributed in people who enjoy that setting. And violating those rules or design or feel is left to an aristocracy of perception but that isn't who owns or works on these shows and movies. And even the person who should know best does not really understand much of his own work (GL.) SW unlike some works really was a collaborative effort.
Dude, concentration is the key to using the force(especially for such feats) which explains most of this. Yoda in AOTC was focused on Dooku, Maul was focused on Qui Gon and Obi Wan was trying to track Jango which explains why he didn't try it(also Slave 1 had weapons). Yoda on Dagobah wasn't struggling, that sequence was meant to be slow and even if he was, he was nearing his death and only being sustained because of his connection to the force(which was also concentration).
In Yoda’s defense: In a Lore-Book about the Jedi order, there is a mention of nine superheavy stones inside of a certain meditation chamber. If you even manage to make them move a few centimeters while meditating, it’s a massive success. The book also mentions a Jedi grandmaster who, while in their deepest form of meditation, was able to lift all nine.
Yoda then comments on this, saying how ever since he became 900 years old, he only manages to lift eight of the stones.
So I wouldn’t say that the X-Wing is his limit. It’s just what he can do on a whim. And he’s also very old at that point.
I both agree with the premise of this video and heavily disagree with the conclusion. Yes, saying that there are no limits and that there are no differences in difficulty between different feats of force use would be terrible. This should not be the takeaway from that line.
However, that does not mean you must limit force user's abilities to make them as impotent as possible. Obi-Wan or Rey lifting a bunch of rocks should be easily achievable for instance. It does not strain credulity at all. Yoda needed to concentrate of the x-wing, sure, but the force works by immersing yourself into it. You always need to concentrate, which is one way in which "size matters not" does apply. Just as there are limits upwards, there is a minimum of concentration necessary to achieve such feats, which is why force users do not pull them out in the middle of a duel. That does not mean that Yoda is then limited by the weight of an x-wing or would have to put in multiple times the effort for multiple times the weight, as the tower in AOTC demonstrates. It is an inexact science at best, but those rules pretty much always apply.
You and the people that make this argument then always contradict yourself when you first assert this: "Since size does matter and it takes different amounts of effort for different feats, we therefore want an upper limit below holding down ships (for some reason this is what we decree)." only to then argue for it with this: "That has to be the case because force users being able to hold down a ship would contradict them not stopping a ship flying away in mid-flight." If size does matter, if weight, gravity and force matter, then there would also be a difference between a ship that is standing still and a ship that is flying away. Even the speed of a ship would matter in that calculation. You saying that it doesn't contradicts exactly the point you're trying to establish by making this argument.
In summary, just because there should be limits and force abilities should be scalable, that does not mean that you can arbitrarily decree what those limits should be or what that scaling would look like. It also means that you have to take into account everything surrounding a particular feat and can't compare apples to oranges when you want to make a point.
"The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the force." I know Sheev is saying that it's an exaggeration that doesn't work because everyone has limits, but that line is said as they're discussing the threat that is the rebellion.
Yoda lifting the X-Wing wasn't the only teaching moment on Dagobah. Why there was a snake hanging out could still be argued, but it made the idea of the dark side creepier. That scene with the illusion made Luke understand how easily he could turn evil.
100% spot on. This doesn't get said enough.
Another thought: the force binds all living things together. While it may allow force users to do things they wouldn’t otherwise be able to do, it is not in the nature of the force to produce effects that are wildly inconsistent with natural laws and the existing order of the universe (for instance, destroying planets). If anything, the force, especially the light side, would tend to reinforce natural law rather than oppose it.
It doesn't just bind living things. It's created by living things, but it surrounds, penetrates, and binds ALL things. Even inanimate objects like rocks or ships. It's omnipresent.
@Sheev, my friend you could do an entire series of these videos.
"Why people misunderstand the meaning of 'balance in the force' ".
"Why people misunderstand the meaning of 'The force is my ally' ".
'Why people misunderstand the meaning of "The force resides in all living things' ".
'Why people misunderstand the meaning of "Midichlorians' ".
"Why people misunderstand the meaning of "Attachment is Forbidden' ".
I could go on and on.
What are misunderstings for 2 and 3
@@Hello-bi1pm Watch Sheev's livestreams he's covered most if not all of these. Basically it's similar to this video where people take the concept and broadly apply it in a hyperbolic sense.
Galen didn't really move the ship. It was already falling onto the planet. All he did was slightly nudge it into a better Position. And then he immeadiately jumps away because he can't stop it in its Tracks. After that, he gets thrown around like a ragdoll by vader and dies against the emperor.
You're spot on with this one. I remembered that you defended the boulder lifting in Kenobi, and I couldn't understand why, when you seemed to have such a good understanding of how that sort of thing can break the stakes in a story. I understand why people want the Force to work this way, because having characters pull off these types of insane feats is very satisfying on a basic, spectacle level. However, there simply has to be a hard limit on the power of the Force, if you want to be able to maintain any kind of stakes or consistency in the Star Wars universe.
You can't have lightsaber duels that make sense, if jedi and sith have the power to simply fold their opponents like a pretzel with the Force. Hell, you can't even have them fight a huge number of regular enemies, when they could all just be simultaneously levitated and thrown aside with enough training. You can't have Force users pulling ships out of the sky, because then no one can ever escape a Force user in a vehicle. You can't have force users be able to come back to life via "something something, darkside is a pathway to many abilities...", because then you can't ever kill off your main villains.
You have to be very careful about introducing any new ways of using the Force, lest it break the worldbuilding entirely. To be fair to Disney, it's not like the EU didn't also have this problem a lot too, but that was mostly videogames wanting to do videogame things, not actually making it a major part of the narrative. I can forgive Empire at War for having Luke be able to turn invisible using the Force, because that was just for gameplay purposes. If they did that in an actual story though, that would be very, very bad for the canon.
Hi Sheev. If I may, I would like to weigh in on this topic. When Yoda says, "size matters not. judge me by my size? " and "do or do not there is no try. " It means quite literally, even if you are small of stature and the task before you is large (for instance, a small rebellion against a massive empire) you must commit to your purpose not just casually "try". That being said, the Force is the power of the universe, and as such, a Force user may influence the universe, but not demand that it restructure itself to suit the users' desire. The dark siders try this all the time,light siders know that the Force doesn't work that way. Harmony and Balance is the way of the Force. The point is subtle influence can bring about profound change.
A better way to look at it is this, imagine the Force as an infinite energy source, if that is the case than the limits of what can be done are the conduit through which it flows. If you put an infinite power source in a racecar and use that same power source in a children's electric car, of course the output of the racecar is going to be far greater.
Two side notes:
FIrst, in fairness to Starkiller, it's only in the video game where he's that ridiculously powerful because otherwise it wouldn't be as fun, in the novelization of the game, he's far more reasonably powerful. Plus, they were obviously just trying to make the Star War version of Kratos since GOW was at its peak around the time of Force Unleashed.
Second, Obi-Wan was actually one of the weaker Jedi of the order, so much so that if he hadn't been picked up by Qui-Gon Jinn, he may have returned to her previous life before the Jedi.
Brilliant point, explained clearly. I love how you back it up with Yoda having to try hard to lift the xwing or the rubble. There's no way these other jedi are stronger than prequel Yoda. Maybe by the time of OT you'll get shills saying he's weak and out of practice. But not prequel Yoda. He goes toe to toe and matches with Sidious.
Its more about how you use it
I have always thought that you CAN do anything with the force, but your limited by much much your body can take, since telekinesis seems to have more and more strain the larger the object is. Which is why some sith could do some really crazy stuff since they had kind of disconnected themselfs from their physical form
@@dogecursor5190Lmao the joke went over your head and you instead wrote a paragraph about the Force. Ultimate nerd moment.
@@eugger3011 there... was a joke? also what made my comment a "nerd" moment?
@@dogecursor5190 The joke was talking about dick sizes. People say "size doesn't matter, it's more about how you use it". The joke went over your head and you started talking about Star Wars instead, which is what a stereotypical "nerd" would do. I'm not trying to insult you or anything, I'm sure I've had moments like that as well. I just thought it was funny.
Darth Nihilus: "I'm so hungry!"
I love how Sheev has had a large account for years all about Star Wars, frequently praises TESB and proclaims it to be his favorite Star Wars movie when his Twitter account shows he had no clue who wrote the movie until, like, three months ago.
I interpret it as "Size matters not..... to the force" as in any object can equally be affected by the force, it being simply "crude matter" and the only limit is it's wielder, which through doubt and physical limitations, cannot manipulate the "crude matter" to his full potential.
Yes. It comes from the Hindu conception of Maya - all of the physical world is an illusion we are bound into, and it is only through great discipline and careful meditation that one can even perceive the illusion; it takes far more to break it.
I would like to push back a little bit on the points regarding Yoda and Vader. Though I broadly agree with the sentiment stated in the video.
Firstly for Yoda. Yoda by the time we are seeing him, is nowhere near his prime and while he is very strong in the force, he is positively geriatric in every movie we see him in. To compare his life span to a humans. He would be 88 in Episode 2 and 90 in Episode 5-6. He is old. Regardless of his ability he isn’t going to be able to pull off huge feats like he might have when he was only a few hundred years old. In Episode 3 he is quickly exhausted after only fighting Sidious for a few minutes and that is with him constantly feeding into the Force, again cause he is old.
To the point about Vader pulling a ship out of the sky, I genuinely do think that that is something within his capabilities. Vader is literally the chosen one and incredibly strong in the force, maybe even more so at a base level then Yoda. While also taking into consideration that Vader’s power in the Force fluctuates greatly in Legends in accordance with his mental state and his ability to cleave to the dark side at any given time. In the scene in Kenobi (as bad as the show is) he is highly focused and emotionally stable. He seems to be able to feed on the dark side of the force a large amount and perform a very power and blunt task with the force, something that the dark side excels in as the dark side is physically more powerful though more unstable than the light side.
But that’s just my two cents on the topic. :)
I will say that there have been sigh lords in the past that HAVE used the force to practically destroy a planet. But this sith pretty much did not have a body at this point anyway, so any physical strain was non existent. They were pretty much just pure dark side energy and hate fused to a mask and cloak
That was dumb then too. If it can be done once then it can be done again. And it makes no sense that Nihilus could be defeated at all if he could do that.
@@paulbutkovich6103 well Nihilus was pretty unique since his body was literally falling apart due to being exposed to the Thought bomb, during the battle of Ruusan, so his condition is pretty hard to replicate. Also all this info is from Legends so is unfortunately probably non canon
- Size matters not!
Said master yoda trying to cope with his tiny lightsaber.
Interesting view. Well said; I like it.
The Book of Five Rings author had a similar view, I presume: said something about if you can defeat 1 enemy, then you can defeat 2, then 10, then 10,000 (maybe not that high, but I recall feeling like 'this guy is ambitious!'). His point was more like you have to work hard to get the ability, but as long as your body holds up, and if you can master the warrior's skills, then as long as you stay better than the others on the field the numbers don't matter. Certainly a bold dude, but also talked about the necessity of various skills; it's been a while since I read it, but I had the impression he was talking about the ability to keep focus, and don't count the 10,000 now, just take care of the 1 or 2 tasks bearing down on you now, efficiently. They'll eventually add up, as long you stay alive.
It's by Miyamoto Musashi: 五輪書, Edo period, Japan. Probably something SW creator had access to.
Starkiller is NOTHING to some of the EU feats. Like Luke and his nephew becoming one with the force and becoming literal immovable objects or Palpatine opening and controlling black holes.
This misconception has been around for a while.
I think the Starkiller scene is another example of severe misinterpretation, just as the premise of the video is about the original quote.
1. Starkiller was standing still and had to gather his energy for several seconds.
2. He couldn't stop or control the star destroyer, he had to guide it's course, and even that took everything out of him.
3. He still almost died in that effort.
Even he had his limits. And the game went out of its way to show that.
Look at his fight with Sidious. He put everything he had into trying to kill the Emperor, and he only managed to delay him long enough for everyone else to escape. Sidious didn't even have a scratch on him.
Thank you I feel like he was being super disingenuous on star killer
Bro, thank you for making this video!! I can't stand how all force users are basically Dragon Ball Z characters now.
If he hadn’t seen that scene as a kid and became a Star Wars fan he would be a successful doctor with a loving wife, 5 kids, a 401k, who exercises regularly to keep his incredible figure.
For the part about being able to use the force to levitate opponents, I’ve always assumed that trained force users naturally used some kind of “anti-Force shield” in duels and that if they are distracted or unbalanced they become vulnerable.
I never understood why Yoda didn't deflect that pillar onto Dooku's ship. You don't have to stop it from falling, just redirect the energy. That's easier than making it stop in midair. This is why George Lucas should've returned my calls.
That’s why
Legends is not canon
Same with visions
To much over the top stuff
It’s a total reinvention of Star Wars
He was struggling even lifting it bro.
Thank you! It's good to see someone finally break this one down in such detail. I've heard so many people (both fans and people working at Disney) misinterpret this scene and lesson, that I was starting to think, maybe *I* misunderstood it.
Personally I don't think that scene with Obi Wan throwing boulders was that insane. Correct me if I'm wrong but we don't know what type of rocks they were. Rocks are usually really heavy, but some like pumice in the real world are really light and sometimes even capable of floating on water. Even a CUBIC METER of pumice is less than 1,000 pounds (under 350 kilos) so it's light enough someone in good shape could at least flip on its side, equivalent to the weight of like 3-4 people. And a cubic meter is pretty big.
I think another reason Yoda has trouble with the X-Wing (and I'm not saying he could stop a moving X-Wing) is his age. I always got the feeling he is putting a lot of his will into fighting off death so he can train Luke, or Leah if necessary.
The quote was also misinterpretted in the very serious film, "Space Balls", in which case size would matter
Thank you! I pondered this for years. Why did Yoda struggle when the mass of the object is meant to be insignificant? So glad you discussed this.
Starkiller steered a crashing Star Destroyer, both Yoda and Palpatine could have done the same.
No…no they couldn’t have
Also, he pulled it out of the sky, too. Let’s not downplay what he did as if that makes it better
@@SheevTalks Dude.. it was ALREADY crashing. Have you even read the novels? He merely brought it down faster, and BARELY at that.
Literally in the own context of the game and books Palpatine completely is stronger than Galen, he absolutely could.
@@Johten The clip I played literally shows him make the move that causes the star destroyer to lose it’s orientation and start plummeting. Also no, Palpatine is NOT shown to be stronger than Galen (and thank God for that, because then the power scaling for Palpatine would be completely out of whack). Starkiller rag dolls the shit out of Palpatine and the only reason Palpatine wins in the end is by taking him by surprise
@@SheevTalks sooooo I'm getting that you haven't read the novels.
The game is intentionally dialed up to 11 for cases like this, it's an artistic choice to make it seem more powerful because that's the type of medium it is.
In the Novels it shows very plainly that the ship is already going down and Galen is merely pushing down on it from the top, and once it is low enough just pushing as hard as he can to slow it down. (Which he gets lucky it lands lower otherwise it would have killed him)
Galen literally dies just trying to stop Palpatine's full strength. You're taking the artistic choices of a God of War Esque game far too literally.
@@SheevTalksPalpatine survives the same Explosion that kills galen, without any Kind of physical injury. He just played galen throughout the entire fight, hoping to turn him instead of killing him
My first exposure to Star Wars was the N64 game Shadows of the Empire, I thought it was so cool that I wanted to know more about Star Wars, that's when I later saw the original trilogy on VHS, then in theaters when the Special Editions came out, and then the prequels
So, something to point out with regards to Starkiller’s scene (and it’s a fair misconception to make) is that he’s not pulling a Star Destroyer out of orbit, it’s already falling, and what he’s doing is using the Force to guide its fall. It’s the difference, I think, between pushing and pulling something. One might argue it’s _still_ a bit much, and I don’t fully disagree. But it’s important to keep all the facts in mind.
I saw someone use this to argument on the topic of the fat pada in the anolyte
I've never had an issue with the idea to lift someone using the force
But I do have an issue with it when people lift others and float em around easily, fast and without effort
It questions why can't force users just fly
Coz its supposed to be a difficult and straining process
Telekinesis doesn't just give you flight coz one error and your lifting their body by lifting their spleen and crush it inside of them
5:45 Better question, why didn't Yoda shove the two (well, okay, 1.8) humans out of the way of the falling pillar instead of slowly and carefully lifting the falling pillar? I mean, what if Dooku used that as an opportunity to attack Yoda instead of escape?
Poetry it rhymes something something hopefully it works
It's the usual, what used to be limited and special is now amplified 100x until it loses all meaning or uniqueness whatsoever. So yeah, eventually they will move planets out of orbit because anything less would risk the audience getting bored because they've seen it all before a million times on a smaller scale.
But... but your argument IS size matters not, the only differnce is you add that you have to believe you can (which doesnt seem like a particularly hard obstacle, just learn that you can), i mean you said that Yoda struggles but there's no in universe explanation for why he struggles if what you're telling is to be believed. Also if moving this small ship is such a hard feat even for Yoda then why does Vader think that the Death Star is nothing compared to the force?
It's almost as if the OT is also very inconsistent with how the force works (remember Luke's telepathic mesage he developed once with no explanation and never used again?), which of course doesn't excuse when newer material does it.
To be fair, Vader is the Chosen One. Whose master is the one that orchestrated the downfall of the entire Jedi Order. His view of the Force is likely far more nebulous than someone who's spent a few hundred years meditating on it. Not to mention who's to say he's not just trying to knock them down a peg or two for being so proud of their "technological terror"?
Well, the chosen one is a prequel thing never mentioned in the OT, and Vader telling his generals that his telekinesis is stronger than the Death Star is undeniably weird if it wasn't. Imagine a military officer telling those in his command that he's physically stronger than a tank.
@@Tat011 A "Prequel thing" or not, it still exists and he's still The Chosen One. And apparently you don't know how the military works. If an officer said that, it would be taken as bravado. Sure, weird, but ultimately as bravado. Which while I didn't say precisely that, "knocking them down a peg" is still an act of bravado.
Excited for the acolyte videos but are you planning to cover tales of the empire as well?
didn’t watch it
@@SheevTalksthat’s fair
To be fair, lots of legends does have jedi moving massive things.
Also to be fair, in forced unleashed the star destroyer was moving towards him, in a gravity well, and he did it in stages while being an incredibly powerful force user (plus before rouge one star destroyers were not ment to be in atmosphere). So its not entirely out of left feild
People and even I be forgetting that Starkiller pulling down the star destroyer wasn’t all him. He had the planet gravity on his side and also had Koda telling him what to do.
And feat-wise, I don't think these two variables mattered all that much.
thank you for making this-- the prequels and sequels went way to far with the "ease" of telekenisis -- rendering the OT "illogical"
Palpatine can destroy worlds with his force lightning in Legends.
I’ll say this. In the force unleashed novel the Star destroyer is already falling and he just redirects it.
I always interpreted it in a similar way to buddhist teachings, or that idea in The Matrix "there is no spoon". In that a flawless force user would have near limitless power to bend reality to their will but ultimately all beings are flawed. There is a difference between intellectually understanding there is no difference between lifting a stone and an X-Wing, and being able to detach ones spirit from the material world to such a degree that they feel zero inhibition or distinction between those tasks. I think it still works, from a worldbuilding perspective, if what prevents any force user from moving planets is their own mental inhibitions
It would make sense then that powerful force users cannot perform incredible feats during moments of conflict. Being locked in battle would make it hugely more difficult to put oneself in that mindspace where the conscious and subconscious barriers melt away
I will defend that vader ship pull. Specifically that one depiction, nothing else, nothing to be infered further beyond about my opinion than that scene I am okay with. Just to be clear.
There is are four elements there, beyond the mandatory Vader is a beast. First, the ship was technically moving, but it had barely any speed. Not much different from stopping a non moving ship in that regard. Second, ships are much less heavy than they look due to being largely hollow, unlike rocks (i.e. the obi wan feat in obi-wan, even more nonsense).Third, vader doesn't need to "reverse lift" the shit, the planet's gravity already does that for him. All Vader needs to make the mechanical parts no do their job, and then the thing that is denser than air will come down naturally. Which takes us to number 4, ships are complex things, and they can't fly well or at all if Vader does the equivalent of obstrcting the fuel lines in a combustion engine. Given that Vader is a mechanics rat on top of being a beast force user, he has the power and the knowledge of exactly what to fuck up with a ship so that it can't quite work well enough, and he doesn't even need a complete failure, just enough to make the power output less than the force of gravity, and then gravity does the hard part of moving all the actual mass.
And this is why I am okay with the scene. You see vader is struggling, and that he just couldn't do the same to the actual ship that took off immediately after he spent himself pulling down the decoy ship and tearing it appart.
One of my best friends accidentally gave me Yoda's advice when it comes to lifting/working out. That projections and previous exercises show a lift is possible, but knowing the weight, and seeing it can get into a lifters head. That a high weight lift is still a lift, no different from a lighter lift. It is harder, requires more focus and energy; but still just a lift.
I think it's a comprehensive issue. Size doesn't matter, but knowing that and using that are two entirely different things. The Jedi/Sith isn't moving anything themselves. That's something I think most people tend to forget. The person in question has no power themselves. The force is doing everything, and that is a universal energy that connects, binds, and penetrates all things. The force IS power itself. It is literally THE force. Logically, Yoda should be 100% accurate at face value. Size means nothing. The difference in size between the pebble at your feet and a planet only matters to you. As far as the force is concerned, they're equally insignificant.
But as I said, knowing that, and using it, are two different things. Training doesn't help, either. As I said, it's mental. And it's not even necessarily consistent. You can grasp something one moment, only to lose it the next.
Yoda and Palpatine are supposed to serve as benchmarks of just how insanely difficult this concept is to grasp. Yoda, who has over 800 years of training and experience. Palpatine, the culmination of a thousand years of Sith study and effort. Even they are still only lifting starfighter sized objects on a consistent basis.
Yeah, I always assumed the effort Yoda requires to move the X-Wing and the (relatively) small masses he and Dooku can throw at each other in the hanger scene in AotC show the difficulty involved in such feats.
Sigh. Starkiller didn’t pull the star destroyer from the sky. It was already falling down and he basically just gave it a controlled landing. And even then, it he nearly destroyed his body doing so, along with barely being able to stop it from landing on him and the rogue shadow.
Also, as much as I hate the Kenobi show, Vader stopping that ship as easily as he did is consistent with his capabilities in and out of canon, he’s always pulled off feats like that. Comparing him doing it easier than Yoda did doesn’t really help when he had surpassed Yoda due to years of him and Palpatine getting stronger in the dark side all the up to RotJ, while Yoda (who couldn’t even beat a comparatively weaker Sidious) exiled himself and only got weaker as he grew in age.
I’m not saying the force hasn’t been used for bs plot contrivances as of late, but Idk why fans pretend that force users doing stuff like this makes the universe “less grounded” when feats and accomplishments has always been present, especially in the EU that many (including me) love and defend to the end. Hell it’s half the reason Revan is such a fan favorite lol.
I thought it was no matter the size, the size of the problem is only about perspective.
Finally someone calling out Star killer for how much of a “OC” he is
“If you have faith the size of a mustard grain, you can move mountains” -Very Obviously Not Literal (on account to most mountains still being where we left them)
Yes. It is clearly a mental obstacle, similar to Neo the first time he is tested in The Matrix. If size mattered not, Yoda would have lifted the X-Wing with a flip of a finger and Dave Feloni would have introduced flying jedis or space whal...
As I recall, in and then authorization for The Force Unleashed. The Star destroyer is already crashing towards the planet.
Btw when are you gonna make a review of the acolyte? Seeing your analysis on that show would be really good imo.
I don't think Yodas or Darth Vaders words are to understand word-by-word. Both of them wanted to show a bigger picture.
Yoda was kind of mocking Luke at their first encounter, because of Lukes worldview, his ideals, wishes and the reason why he wanted to become a jedi in the first place. Yes, his heart was at the right place but so has been Darth Vaders at some point. (IRL) - A lot of people are very idealistic in their early ages. Luke is reflecting this 1:1. Luke even said to his friend, that he feels like he could fight the whole empire. (or something similar, if i remember correctly).
Yoda tried to explain Luke that righteousness and power can be very dangerous without prudence and wisdom and through Yodas lessons; Luke started to change.
It is so ironic - that Disney Star Wars suffers from the very same type of person. Young and very idealistic in their worldview.
Starkiller is based. Do not disrespect him.
He will if he so pleases.
I like the interpretation, i think its better than the original. But just because i like something doesnt mean its right. What exactly did yoda mean then by "size matters not". I wouldnt say the scene is saying its the exact same experience, my head canon is that its extremly difficult wrapping your head around every bit of the ship to lift it up, more so than rocks, but the force can lift anything. The size doesnt mattet when it comes to the force.
Well I think that no matter how skilled and powerfull you are in the Force, you just can't use your powers at 100% every time you want. Vader is struggling pulling that ship down (you can actually hear him) and at this specific moment he was extremly angry and was able to use 100% of his powers, he was so sure that Obi Wan was inside. The Force itself is limitless, but the user is not. The user is actually the limitation. Count Dooku did not use that pillar only to escape, but also to get Yoda tired.
The Force requires focus and physical energy too (every time someone uses the Force to do something big, you can always see them struggling, shaking, you can see their face like they were lifting something very heavy). I would say that using the Force is extremly physical
"Master Fae, it should be noted, can levitate all six [stones] after entering a deep state of meditation."
Note: ("Impressive! While size matters now, only five can I lift since I passed 700.") - Yoda
From the Jedi Path. Yoda openingly conceding he has limits. Personally I think the examples of pulling ships are fine depending on the context, given even a padawan was able to temporarily hold up a Venator at the cost of her life, and other such mitigating factors, but overall, yes, there are certainly limitations.
great acolyte review. i like the part where you didn't talk about it! 😊
He has an Acolyte review on the channel. It was posted before this video. This video also never said it was an Acolyte review.
I don't think you (or anyone else) necessarily misunderstood what Yoda was saying, but that power creep in the Star Wars universe is real. When George Lucas wrote "size matters not", we had a total of 5 Force users (Obi-Wan, Yoda, Luke, Vader, Palpatine. 6 if you want to count Leia but she never uses it), and due to the limitations he had at the time, people weren't getting ragdolled everywhere. I mean, there's a reason that Palps gets manhandled into the pit rather than Force thrown, after all. All this to say that Lucas probably thought that he wouldn't need to lift anything bigger than a ship, and if he did, he could just call back to this scene and say "Well, size matters not."
Now, almost 50 years and almost 10 films (and more series) later, most of which follow Force users, we've had a gradual power creep that we could ignore back in the EU because books are at least a different medium than TV. Because every main character has to be stronger than the last, we go from Luke being unable to lift the X-Wing to Rey pulling a ship while it's in-flight. I think Lucas had a notional idea of where "Size matters not" would end, and because he's Lucas no one would really question it because it's far from the first time he's rewritten his stuff; unfortunately, with Lucas gone and people wanting a greater spectacle, we end up with feats that don't really make much sense and using Lucas' "get out of jail free" card to try to avoid criticism.
I always saw it like this: for the Force, size matters not.
Luke's connection to the Force was infantile. He saw it as a connection between the physical nature of things, and thus he was limited on what was possible. Yoda surrendered his understanding of the world to the Force, and thus was able to do the impossible.
Your connection to the Force and your faith are both required. Faith bypasses your self-imposed limits on the Force, and this allows you to connect at your full potential.
Good video Sheev. I argue the discrepancy with Yoda’s words comes from a problem with the Force with regards to its nebulous, ethereal nature being used as a justification to have Jedi characters do whatever they want. The scope and scale of the abilities becomes insane because the standard capabilities are not readily apparent. This is why I love Sanderson’s laws of magic saying limitations > Capabilities. Because the fun of storytelling is having a characters abilities having a shortcoming which can create risks/ stakes. A very good example of this is the anime Code Geass with Lelouch. His Geass( the powers in the world) enables him to brainwash anyone if he looks into their eyes. Pretty powerful. Except it has a lot of limitations. Not being able to use it more than once on the same individual, distance etc. The joy comes from seeing Lelouch this smart individual work within the limitations of his power and use it in creative, satisfying ways.
That is why much as I love the Force; I do think in terms of a magic system, if you want to have a magic system like this you need to to clearly establish the limits and be consistent. If someone tries to lift something beyond their powers, show them either failing or succeeding but at a tremendous cost/ consequence.
That’s where you can get good drama. And where a good magic system shines. Character choices and working within the rules you’ve built.
Another good example I can think of is the powerful side bending abilities in Last Air Bender. They are powerful, but written with innate restrictions to prevent them from becoming writing problems/removing stakes.
-Lighting Generation: Need to be basically a GM of Fire Bending and be at complete inner peace/psychopath
-Blood Bending: Need to be a GM of Water Bending, and Full Moon
-Metal Bending: Need to be a GM of Earth Bending and have attuned senses.
You hear that girls size doesn’t matter…………
What do people think of physical objects amplifying, or even channeling its own force?
Like, if palpatine wanted to, he could have made the Death Star be a 'dark force focus' and instead of firing a laser, it could fire force laser.
(would still make sense Palp would want a regular laser, since it would require him to be present every time and exert himself)
(JK Jedi Academy has that force amplifying staff that shoots a laser)
People overestimate how powerful the Jedi are in movies 1-6.
Sorry but I don't want to be that guy but Yoda was already about to die so he wasn't at full strength apart from that it was just a basic lesson for Luke so I don't think lifting an X Wing is the limit of the Jedi but still it's not that Exaggerated like in the Vader comics where he survived the explosion of Kaver crystals with the power to destroy planets (something similar happened in Rebels) and that with pure force he was able to open a crack in space and time to another dimension Vader in the canon I guess it's at the level of a black hole thanks to that
What do you mean that "Obi-wan lifting dozens of heavy rocks is dumb", he was obviously lifting paper mache props.
How else was Vader able to endure getting pummeled and walk unharmed.
Plus, they were foreshadowed from the fact that a lot of the locations in this show look cheap and fake.
Silly Sheev, always the professional nitpicker you are 🤓
The way I always saw it is that you have to focus your mind on the objects you want to lift. Some objects are just too big for the human mind to focus on.
Real stretch to say Yoda was struggling to lift the X-wing. He looked as relaxed as Kermit the frog drinking tea.
Not saying limits don’t exist but you are exaggerating the characters limits.
In Obi-wan Kenobi, the rocks he throws at Vader, combined would barely equate to two wings of the X-wing. And this is after obi wan gets his groove back.
Also when you show Rey pulling the ship from the sky, she is obviously struggling and it wasn’t really working. And when Vader pulls the ship out of the air in Kenobi, the ship was obviously a decoy and lighter due to no cargo or passengers.
One more thing, we don’t know a lot about Grogus past. And if you pay attention, he’s only pulling around the petorian guards when their ganging up on mando and he’s distracting them