Maybe, but should I feel bad if I play casually competitive? or should I quit all together? I don't know if I should feel guilty for playing competitive ultimate or not
Overall, no. Smash is fun here and there. Playing too much is when it gets “toxic”. Personally, I play with “competitive” rule sets and stages, but I just play for fun. The thing is, Smash is a video game, it’s supposed to be fun. Everyone has fun in different ways as well. Whether that’s items, final smashes, entering tournaments, or just simple stages with raw skill. We all find fun in separate ways. Where I think the line is crossed is when people make this child’s party video game their whole lives. Smash should be a hobby, a fun little game to do when you’re feeling up for it. I’m not saying all competitive players are like this, but some definitely take this game too seriously. I respect people’s choices to do what they want, but at the end of the day, it’s literally just a video game. Play the game and enjoy yourself
Ever since I stopped playing elite smash, my mentality has improved, my gameplay has improved, and I’m having a ton of fun with the game again. Battle arenas are where it’s at.
I have a problem where I've gotten decently good at the game so when I try to play casually my brain doesn't allow me to lose. If I'm losing its like " I'm not going to lose ya'll don't even play as much as me." It's not satisfying and I want just what you said here, to have fun again, win OR lose.
Here’s how to have fun playing…. Lose on purpose. Trust me. I have 3k+ hrs on ssbu. I have been every type of smash player hes described in the video. (I dont have a switch anymore so i guess im retired) but just lose on purpose and you will see how much of a good time the “opponent” has from winning. And know that you created that joy & fun intentionally. Losing is how you win in ssbu
Mkleo, Esam, Tweek, Riddles, have all said that online sucks at least once, I learned to not get upset if I loose a match on elite, because nothing works online!
The thing about competitive Ultimate is that it is a community and it does bring people together. I almost wish Nintendo made a “For Fun” and “For Glory” section like they did in Smash 4. But should we suddenly stop Ultimate from being competitive, it’s an Esport now and the game being competitive is okay, Elite Smash shouldn’t be the standard since it’s the top 10% of that character.
For some, yes. But for me, and many other competitors, no it hasn't become too competitive. What drives me to play the game is winning in the face of a person who wanted to win just as much as you did. It is much more satisfying to win when you know your opponent is in a similar playing skill level, and it was a tooth and nail scrap that left you on the edge of your seat the whole game. Why I think this isn't bad is because Smash is just as much a fighting game as it is a casual one. Sakurai made Smash as a more forgiving, and easy to pick up version of something like King of Fighters, where casuals have literally 0 chance of winning if they go up against someone who knows what they are doing. So since it's conception, it has literally been a competitive fighting game at its core. Just one that isn't as technically demanding as a traditional fighting game. Has that been accomplished as good as it could have? No, it never was in my opinion. Something inherently skill based such as fighting games never will be good at being a fair experience for everyone. But it is the closest we've ever gotten to this idea outside of one button gimmicks like Footsies, Dive Kick and One Strike. It doesn't take a lot to know how to play the game, there are two attack buttons and no matter what direction your stick is pointing the attack button does something. And on paper the most complex this game gets is a multi layered game of rock paper scissors. Attack beats grabs, Grabs beat shields and Shields ward off attacks. Though obviously there are some mechanics that make this not so cut and dry, which is where the depth of play comes in for those willing to take the game further like rolling, Oos options like attack, spot dodging, jumping. But they all feel like natural extensions of the foundational triangle/RPS game that is Shield, attack and grab. So even taking the time to learn these concepts isn't as technically demanding as older traditional fighting games can be. In summary, at its core Smash always is a take on fighting games that is easy to play, but hard to master. It is the truest definition of this idea in regards to the larger fighting game IPs. since in my opinion casual play is literally as easy as Spamming your attack buttons in the general direction of your opponent. Which is encouraged further thanks to the A button picking up items for you on top of attacking. But there is room for passionate players to turn into a combo demon who plays neutral so well that a casual player may literally never get a hit on someone who's even marginally better than them. Truly Casual play has to be arranged with friends, and I think it always will because of how online fighting game communities typically are represented by the sweaty and competitive minority looking for similar people who are looking for a good fight. Expecting Casual play to be common is a bit of an odd way of thinking because of this fact. Casuals don't live and breathe the game like people who fell in love with Smash as a video game do. So regardless of whether it's online or offline/in person, it's probably a once in a while thing with friends. Making it that much more difficult to run into a random person who just wants to throw items and screw around.
Also, I'm going to say this here since I couldn't find a good place to say it in my literal essay above. But Nintendo didn't exactly do a great job at separating competitive from casual in their online match making system in Ultimate. Which is Odd, because they had it figured out in Smash 4 Wii U all those years ago now. Sure, For Fun was a bit flawed since you'd still run into some online hidden bosses who would mop you up in a few minutes effortlessly. But you'd be guaranteed to get random stages and all the items in the world. And to separate items from Competitive play, you had For Glory where the only stage you could play is FD at the conveniently tournament legal 2 stock count. Ultimate stupidly fused them together into one matchmaking system, so if enough time passed you'd get a player who is either disinterested in playing with items/non legal stages. Or you'd literally only get players who know what they are doing, and you go on a hot losing streak no matter what ruleset you play by. So it's just a loss for everyone, and every casual who just wants to have fun, and does try to play with random players online is literally discouraged to do so as time goes on. Thanks to casuals typically dropping games quicker than competitive players, therefore slowly becoming such a dominant majority that you might just end up in an environment with only competitive players. Which is definitely the case nowadays imo. Since I rarely run players with their ruleset set to random stage, items on and final smash meter on. And I usually play for a solid 2-3 hours since competitive Smash has been my main hobby for quite some time now.
This might be the reason why I wanted to focus on my career and marriage than Smash. I still have fun playing but if I can beat my friends or go 50:50 against them, I’ll be happy. Other things, like getting characters in Elite or success in tournaments, are a bonus. Best I did is one character in Elite (Jigglypuff) and 2-2 in Smash 4 tournaments.
@haadisyed9138 You have no rebuttals besides that? If a Fighting game is out for 5 years, it makes sense that the playerbase would be better at this point.
Some people do just get good to be a total sweat but there are still other types of players out there take me as an example. I got good at smash because I wantet to teach other people how to stop mashing B or A and try to actually play the game and get good at it. So I don't think you are completely wrong but smash online is not the world
likewise, I play Melee 90% of the time and Ultimate the other 10% and my gf used to play melee as a kid, but until recently, she just spammed b button with Captain falcon and hoped for the best, I've enjoyed teaching her that the character works best as a speedy 'hit and run' kind of character, and she seems to have more fun too now that she has a handle on things. Smash is the most fun imo when you can share it with people in person, much like a lot of other nintendo games.
Most games are competitive you win some you lose some that's life. If you want to play it as a party game invite your friends and play it as a party game. I like playing this game competitively as do many other players
Yeah I got into this game when I was about 7 and it was smash bros brawl, I used to play against my older brother and his friends and it was always fun no matter what stage or rules we used. I continued to play smash 4 once my brother moved out to college and I began playing by myself or with my friends. I got to the point where I was consistently beating most of my friends, but even if I didn’t, it didn’t matter, it was still fun. Now I have ultimate and I have 900 hours in the game, Lv 9 CPU’s aren’t that hard anymore and no one I know can consistently beat me, so I thought I’d try Nintendo online and see how I’d square up. I lost my first match and won my second, which is about what I’d expect, but then I went on a 6 game losing streak and decided it was enough for that day. And now to this day it normally takes me 5-7 matches before I win even 1, I feel there’s this void between playing casually against bots or friends and playing online that needs to be filled because now playing against the people I used to play with is boring, I’m even able to beat my brother consistently who got me into the game, but I stand no chance against most people online so I’m stuck and I don’t have the time nor mental drive to start dumbing thousands of hours into the game just to win on a semi regular basis.
I wish more people would realize its beyond smash, gaming in general has gotten very competitive when it comes to online, its like this in call of duty, league, DOTA 2, Smash, etc.. One reason I think it is like that is because as you get better you play better and better players, leading you to have to adapt and - get better - if you want to feel that dopamine from the W. Personally, I enjoy playing on the couch with my homies on Ultimate and Melee just because it doesn't feel as competitive unless you WANT it to be,
I quit smashbros a year ago. Last week I picked the game up again to "have some fun". After one hour I was done. And don't get me wrong, I won most matches but I still hated it! Everyone is so serious about the game as if his/her life depends on it. (Almost) every match was annoying or exhausting. Glad I stopped for real... The game doesn't even have a fun singleplayer (story)mode. So yeah... I get what you mean.
@@user-be3qc7re9o Don't randomly assume things! I just played smash bros so much I am tired of it. And a lot of other people are at this point as well. Every other game is fine for me. Grinding F-Zero 99 right now. Is a ton of fun!
Nah competitive play and tournaments are what make this game fun. If you work for your hard earned #1 at your local and get rewarded for it, then you would want to pursue that feeling. Most good players don’t full sweat against friends who wanna mess around and goof off. As for the online situation, if you need to use nintendos wifi system to make friends, you have bigger issues than smash bros. No hate at all, this video brings up good points.
Honestly, just don’t play online. I’m a dude who grinds ganon against bots so I can crush my friends because it’s funny. I’m having the time of my life.
I dont want to get switch online so i play against cpu and it is pretty fun i think smash is best to be played in bits when also playing other games not fulltime
I'm a casual and don't have a problem with the competitive scene. I play with my friends and try to be better than them but it's just so I can spend quality time with them. Doubt it will happen but if I get so much better than them that the skill gap is too wide, I would loose interest in the game.
2:58 - 5:34 infinitely Accurate, Couldn’t have said it better myself and the main problem with free for all battles is that someone will target you, try to take your stocks first before anyone else’s, and if someone loses, he/she will rage quit wasting everyone’s time and no one wins.
I agree that smash has a very high skill floor for beginners, but i feel like this video only applies to people who are not able to play in person, or at least have an online friend group to enjoy the game with. When online is the only place you have to play smash I agree it sucks, here's a real life example. When smash came out, my whole friend group played smash and grinded the game together, and that was fun. But after Sora came out my friends started to drift away from the game, partly because we got older but also the game was just not being updated. I was one of the last to go out, and I did so by burning myself out with quickplay. However, Last year my high school was offering an esports team with smash as one of the options, and I joined because why not? I was good at the game and its fun! And even now I'm still hyperfocused on this game because I have a community to play around, teach, and a healthy competitive environment. So I don't think that people should stop trying to win, because this is a game that some people truly enjoy, but as someone who has had to teach newcomers to play the game, I can agree that it is a very hard game to get into, but if you enjoy it and have a good community there should be no reason to stop tryharding.
Yes it's too competitive. As someone who has several muscle-scheletric problems, I can't physically work out the game 8h at day as a pro player. Maybe I just want to have fun for an hour, but playing with the bots that can be spammed to death it's not that fun. So I have to go to lobby and if someone is at low level it's because they are doing a challenge to reach Elite fast. And there is no casual mode to play with. At least just the meter? I like the spirit meter, because you can win like in other fighting games with a cool finisher or do a cool move and then get fucked by the counter the second after and it's hilarious. Even with friends it gets competitive, if they win I have to get good (but I can't, I'm still trying to find a good controller set to not hurt my hands after 10 minutes), if I win they get frustrated, because online it's all about win. One time I found a guy that rematched me 4 times, 3 times he won, I slightly get better match after match, and the fourth one I won and he fucking disconnected... For real? Man your videos are the first ones I see in 30 years about having fun with a Smash Bros game more than beating the shit out of everyone
But it's also the default mode, which is why you'll have no problem getting full lobbies even years later compared to Smash Ultimate where it takes forever to get a full lobby of 4 players.
i think the point is lost halfway through the video, it becomes too competitive because almost no one is there to play casual when you want to wind down. imo no one is to blame here, casuals always drop the game after some time to play other games. Plus smash games have always been carried by competitive players since they are the ones that stick with the game all the way. Its unrealistic to ask them to dumb down their competitive nature for your sake, they love the game and dont mind the pain of grinding to get to where they are. Just hop off and play other games, there are like tons of casual games out there. Or get a hobby...
I started playing the game 2 months ago and its just frustrating tbh. Like I dont even understand why a lot of things happen and the online mode from nintendo fcuking sucks. So when I go to something like Matchbox (I go to Smashdojo for eu players) I just get fisted hard. Currently Im 0-20 and nearly the lowest player on the site, because even people with my elo are so much better than me. So now after giving it a shot for 2 months and playing a decent amount of time I will probably quit again, because its just not a fun experience. I know its hard to get into fighting games, but I havent had as much of a hard time when I started with GGS than I have now with smash ultimate
Wired LAN helps a lot. Sometimes, it’s not how much you practice. It’s what and how you practice. Never go into a game on autopilot if you’re looking for wins. If you just want to have fun, drop the competitive mindset for a while.
Hey traditional fighting game player here, so from what I'm seeing is a case of what I like to call a casual migration but with a caveat, which comes for every game at some point, the game starts slowly losing players until you get to the point where only the grinders play the game. The issue that I'm is the casual player base kinda dipped cause of mixture of multiple different issues outside of the grinding mindset, first ultimate feels way too unresponsive to be enjoyable even for a casual to, the online being the way it is player base wise, and the fact that it's got worse online servers have ever been. Do people need to take a chill yes. But also maybe I'm misreading your intentions during the whole asking why people strive to be the best and and what do you think you could possibly gain happiness wise from being the best. It felt like you were just discrediting what people find happiness in, happiness doesn't always have to be an end goal, it can also be what the journey brings. I get your frustrations but I think it's too late for any newcomers to come to ultimate to have fun free for alls as sad as it is to say
If you want to play less serious matches not on tournament rules there are always options to play in arenas with friends or other people online. You can even toggle a beginner option if you're new to the game and it prevents people in elite smash from seeing it and being able to join. If you're playing online, especially in a skill based match making system like quickplay, you have to expect to find people that challenge you. Regardless if somebody likes "just playing for fun" at the end of the day you're playing a fighting game. People are going to try to win, this is the same with any game with competitive mechanics. If somebody doesn't want to put in the effort to get to the skill level they consider "good", that's fine. Play with friends, find casual streamers, open arenas with more casual settings. There is nothing wrong with that, but I get the impression this video is criticizing the community as a whole for having a certain preferred way of playing the game, and I think that doesn't make a ton of sense.
If the point is having fun and not winning why are you so mad about losing? By your logic you shouldn't care about getting beaten online OR maybe winning is the point and then why are you mad that people are trying their best to win? Just a thought :)
It's not about winning or losing, it's about playing. If you pick up the game and everyone you play against is a kamikaze Bowser, spammy Ness, or sweaty top tier, you're spending more time trying to play than actually playing. It's OK to play to win, but a lot of people play like their mother's life is on the line, and that's where I think things go a little overboard.
I ain’t gon hold you if you a casual player then jus don’t play fighting games because all of them are going to have competitive people and that’s jus how it is, also I only got into this game because of it competitive people I get it, it’s not for everyone but it’s not fair to hate on either side because of how they like to play
Agreed, As someone who has played smash competitively for almost a decade 100% players take this game way too seriously. I've gone to hundreds of tournaments over the years and have thousands of hours in the game and even I think that lmao. My goal was not to win going to tournaments it was just something to do and meet new people, make friends, socialize but I found when I was at them some people (not all) where there to win by any means necessary, they wanted to be a top player and their whole personality and self worth revolved around the game which is extremely unhealthy which I agree on. Only thing I disagree on is the majority of people who play elite smash online. From knowing the "smash is my life" kind of people I don't think people on elite smash are trying to become the best. I know this because my region is region locked and I know pretty much everyone in my region who play in tournaments and most ppl on elite I do not recognize, plus when you've played enough you can tell a competitive player from an online shitter because the way they play is completely different. Thats because in an even more demoralizing way the people beating you online that you think are super sweaty usually get dusted at an actual tournament and will most likely go 0-2, I've seen it a lot. The game is very gatekeepy in that way and the reason its dying at a local level its unfortunate that the skill gap is that big. There are exceptions to this but the real "smash is my life" kinda ppl don't really play elite smash because the netcode is bad and the quality of practice is bad because most players on elite are bad so its not worthwhile to them so most play offline with any chance they can get or if they do play online its in arena's with other good players. Obviously there are exceptions to this, for example Onin won smashcon just practicing on elite smash so its not like competative players don't play on elite its just usually when they do they are messing around with some random char or farming for clips not actively practicing which I feel is a common misconception among casual players online. Not to deter you from coming to tournaments for whoever is reading this though cuz I made it sound worse than it is, yes there are those people but thats like any competative game. Most ppl I've met at tournaments are pretty chill and usually local communities are very welcoming and willing to help you learn. If your ever thinking of going to a tournament you probably will get shit on and lose hard, I know I did at my first few but don't get discouraged by it, just try to have fun, make some friends and its a great way to learn if you wanna become that elite smash warrior that gate keeps everyone from elite that you used to complain so much about lmao My main point though is competitive smash and elite smash are two very different things if you think they are one in the same
So to me this sounds like your local 0-2er complaining. I think the big disparity between being able to find comp ruleset matches vs free for all matches online is because of why people are playing this game. The competitive players play it to get better, to prove their skill, and to have fun. And the easiest way of doing that is playing online. Most people who play casually don't play online cause they don't play the game that much. The majority of people online at any given time are gonna be competitive players. I wouldn't say the game is too competitive. It's just as competitive as any other fighting game. That's why people play them. Is smash a fighting game or a party game? The answer is yes. Its both. Losing is frustrating, putting in so many hours and still losing can be soul crushing. But there's excitement in learning why you lost. How you can play better, learning new tricks and tech. You see yourself over time slowly losing less and less and by less and less. You go from getting 3 stocked, to two stocked, to really close games, to winning. And it's exciting seeing that progression. Seeing your hard work payoff. And that's the fun part of smash, seeing yourself improve. Taking games off players that a year ago you couldn't have dreamed of ever beating. That's the joy of it. And another beautiful part of it is, if you want to take a break from playing competitively, you can still pick illegal stages, you can turn items on, you can allow meter. If you don't enjoy the competitive grind, then that's fine it's not for everyone. And as for your analogy about naming competitive splatoon players vs smash players, I think that boils down to splatoon is team based. You don't root for players, you root for teams. Could I name a splatoon team? No. But I don't play splatoon. I could ask my mom to name a smash player and I doubt she could. I don't think smash is too competitive. I think it's just as competitive as any other fighting game. -the local 0-2er
I agree with some of your points but I really think that you don’t have the correct mindset when it comes to the game, hence your frustration with the situation. Like you said at the start of the video, you played this game a lot so your are expecting to win. Later in the video you claim again and again that’d you’d want to win but it has gotten very hard. You know who else wanna win ? Players who will just grind this game. The try harders, the sweaters. That’s literally why they spend so much time in this game trying to win and perfecting their gameplay. That’s what they find fun. You want what the grinders want without the grind. I know playing a competitive game, especially a 1v1 competitive game is rough. If you lose you have no one else to blame but yourself. If you don’t want to grind the game I respect it. Instead try to enjoy the game itself rather than the outcome. Try to implement a different playstyle, or play a different character. Or simply go for other « less competitive » rulesets. As for me, I played this game 1000h+ but I just get literally moped by my brother. But I don’t care, I still have fun. There’s so much I still am trying to learn about this game and that’s why I still enjoy it despite the losses. TLDR : Don’t focus on winning or losing but on what makes your experience with your game fun
I understand your complaints but there's a couple issues people might take with the message. If you want a TL:DR Yes GSP is bad. Yes Toxic mindset is bad, but 1. Comp playerbase is being punished by Nintendo for being a fan of the game which is not good. 2. Elite Smash & Top Players don't represent why the larger majority plays comp. They enjoy the game. Getting good at a game is fun and sometimes you can make cash from it. Plain & simple. Elite Smash only nets a toxic mindset out of choice. I could get into more detail but I don't wanna throw a wall of text in anyone's face if the video is about explaining why people getting tryhard kills enjoyment. Feels kinda ironic.
honestly people will make a little kids game competitive for the fuck of it they just want to play players that are on nearly the same level since Nintendo Wi-Fi play is shitty and always lags this is what you get a "competitve game" full of players that want to be the best at something not to mention nearly all fighting games have a big competitve side that are most likely bigger then smash ultimate
This is a bad take. It’s human nature to compete. I know it’s a “ party game” but theirs no denying that this is a fighter. Nintendo just wants to make it seem family friendly.
The Competitive Splatoon point is the single dumbest thing I've heard on this channel. Maybe you can't name a Competitive Splatoon Player because you aren't into Competitive Splatoon? That's like expecting yourself to understand a reference from a movie you didn't watch.
Do you think Smash Ultimate is too competitive?
Heck no.
Mmm i don't think so. I mean, every game is competitive xd
Bro, you literaly are doing a smash video. Why i would know a splatoon pro player name xd
Maybe, but should I feel bad if I play casually competitive? or should I quit all together? I don't know if I should feel guilty for playing competitive ultimate or not
@@funtimefredboy2350 don't feel guilty for what you play, just play your way and have fun
Overall, no. Smash is fun here and there. Playing too much is when it gets “toxic”. Personally, I play with “competitive” rule sets and stages, but I just play for fun. The thing is, Smash is a video game, it’s supposed to be fun. Everyone has fun in different ways as well. Whether that’s items, final smashes, entering tournaments, or just simple stages with raw skill. We all find fun in separate ways. Where I think the line is crossed is when people make this child’s party video game their whole lives. Smash should be a hobby, a fun little game to do when you’re feeling up for it. I’m not saying all competitive players are like this, but some definitely take this game too seriously. I respect people’s choices to do what they want, but at the end of the day, it’s literally just a video game. Play the game and enjoy yourself
Ever since I stopped playing elite smash, my mentality has improved, my gameplay has improved, and I’m having a ton of fun with the game again. Battle arenas are where it’s at.
I have a problem where I've gotten decently good at the game so when I try to play casually my brain doesn't allow me to lose. If I'm losing its like " I'm not going to lose ya'll don't even play as much as me." It's not satisfying and I want just what you said here, to have fun again, win OR lose.
Also I still get whipped fairly consistently in Elite Smash so I'm not trying to say that I'm that good haha don't want to come off as braggy
Here’s how to have fun playing…. Lose on purpose. Trust me. I have 3k+ hrs on ssbu. I have been every type of smash player hes described in the video. (I dont have a switch anymore so i guess im retired) but just lose on purpose and you will see how much of a good time the “opponent” has from winning. And know that you created that joy & fun intentionally. Losing is how you win in ssbu
What the hell?
That's not fun for me because I did nothing. I'd rather lose than my opponent lose intentionally.
Mkleo, Esam, Tweek, Riddles, have all said that online sucks at least once, I learned to not get upset if I loose a match on elite, because nothing works online!
Acola Sparg0 Sonix and Miya are the 4 best players in the world and they are clinically grinding wifi
The thing about competitive Ultimate is that it is a community and it does bring people together. I almost wish Nintendo made a “For Fun” and “For Glory” section like they did in Smash 4. But should we suddenly stop Ultimate from being competitive, it’s an Esport now and the game being competitive is okay, Elite Smash shouldn’t be the standard since it’s the top 10% of that character.
For some, yes. But for me, and many other competitors, no it hasn't become too competitive. What drives me to play the game is winning in the face of a person who wanted to win just as much as you did. It is much more satisfying to win when you know your opponent is in a similar playing skill level, and it was a tooth and nail scrap that left you on the edge of your seat the whole game.
Why I think this isn't bad is because Smash is just as much a fighting game as it is a casual one. Sakurai made Smash as a more forgiving, and easy to pick up version of something like King of Fighters, where casuals have literally 0 chance of winning if they go up against someone who knows what they are doing. So since it's conception, it has literally been a competitive fighting game at its core. Just one that isn't as technically demanding as a traditional fighting game.
Has that been accomplished as good as it could have? No, it never was in my opinion. Something inherently skill based such as fighting games never will be good at being a fair experience for everyone. But it is the closest we've ever gotten to this idea outside of one button gimmicks like Footsies, Dive Kick and One Strike. It doesn't take a lot to know how to play the game, there are two attack buttons and no matter what direction your stick is pointing the attack button does something. And on paper the most complex this game gets is a multi layered game of rock paper scissors. Attack beats grabs, Grabs beat shields and Shields ward off attacks. Though obviously there are some mechanics that make this not so cut and dry, which is where the depth of play comes in for those willing to take the game further like rolling, Oos options like attack, spot dodging, jumping. But they all feel like natural extensions of the foundational triangle/RPS game that is Shield, attack and grab. So even taking the time to learn these concepts isn't as technically demanding as older traditional fighting games can be.
In summary, at its core Smash always is a take on fighting games that is easy to play, but hard to master. It is the truest definition of this idea in regards to the larger fighting game IPs. since in my opinion casual play is literally as easy as Spamming your attack buttons in the general direction of your opponent. Which is encouraged further thanks to the A button picking up items for you on top of attacking. But there is room for passionate players to turn into a combo demon who plays neutral so well that a casual player may literally never get a hit on someone who's even marginally better than them.
Truly Casual play has to be arranged with friends, and I think it always will because of how online fighting game communities typically are represented by the sweaty and competitive minority looking for similar people who are looking for a good fight. Expecting Casual play to be common is a bit of an odd way of thinking because of this fact. Casuals don't live and breathe the game like people who fell in love with Smash as a video game do. So regardless of whether it's online or offline/in person, it's probably a once in a while thing with friends. Making it that much more difficult to run into a random person who just wants to throw items and screw around.
Also, I'm going to say this here since I couldn't find a good place to say it in my literal essay above. But Nintendo didn't exactly do a great job at separating competitive from casual in their online match making system in Ultimate. Which is Odd, because they had it figured out in Smash 4 Wii U all those years ago now. Sure, For Fun was a bit flawed since you'd still run into some online hidden bosses who would mop you up in a few minutes effortlessly. But you'd be guaranteed to get random stages and all the items in the world. And to separate items from Competitive play, you had For Glory where the only stage you could play is FD at the conveniently tournament legal 2 stock count.
Ultimate stupidly fused them together into one matchmaking system, so if enough time passed you'd get a player who is either disinterested in playing with items/non legal stages. Or you'd literally only get players who know what they are doing, and you go on a hot losing streak no matter what ruleset you play by. So it's just a loss for everyone, and every casual who just wants to have fun, and does try to play with random players online is literally discouraged to do so as time goes on. Thanks to casuals typically dropping games quicker than competitive players, therefore slowly becoming such a dominant majority that you might just end up in an environment with only competitive players. Which is definitely the case nowadays imo. Since I rarely run players with their ruleset set to random stage, items on and final smash meter on. And I usually play for a solid 2-3 hours since competitive Smash has been my main hobby for quite some time now.
This might be the reason why I wanted to focus on my career and marriage than Smash.
I still have fun playing but if I can beat my friends or go 50:50 against them, I’ll be happy. Other things, like getting characters in Elite or success in tournaments, are a bonus.
Best I did is one character in Elite (Jigglypuff) and 2-2 in Smash 4 tournaments.
Puff Gang rise up
I agree, SSB series was supposed to be a family game franchise
Ultimate has been out for 5 years now, so what do you expecf?
L plus bozo and also ratio
@haadisyed9138
You have no rebuttals besides that?
If a Fighting game is out for 5 years, it makes sense that the playerbase would be better at this point.
I just wanna do a sick combo and say to my friend. “Yes. I did that.”
finally, someone at least partially ADDRESSES this issue, and the issue of people overall defining their self-worth from these matches, thank you.
Some people do just get good to be a total sweat but there are still other types of players out there take me as an example. I got good at smash because I wantet to teach other people how to stop mashing B or A and try to actually play the game and get good at it. So I don't think you are completely wrong but smash online is not the world
likewise, I play Melee 90% of the time and Ultimate the other 10% and my gf used to play melee as a kid, but until recently, she just spammed b button with Captain falcon and hoped for the best, I've enjoyed teaching her that the character works best as a speedy 'hit and run' kind of character, and she seems to have more fun too now that she has a handle on things. Smash is the most fun imo when you can share it with people in person, much like a lot of other nintendo games.
Most games are competitive you win some you lose some that's life. If you want to play it as a party game invite your friends and play it as a party game. I like playing this game competitively as do many other players
The king finally uploads again
Yeah I got into this game when I was about 7 and it was smash bros brawl, I used to play against my older brother and his friends and it was always fun no matter what stage or rules we used. I continued to play smash 4 once my brother moved out to college and I began playing by myself or with my friends. I got to the point where I was consistently beating most of my friends, but even if I didn’t, it didn’t matter, it was still fun. Now I have ultimate and I have 900 hours in the game, Lv 9 CPU’s aren’t that hard anymore and no one I know can consistently beat me, so I thought I’d try Nintendo online and see how I’d square up. I lost my first match and won my second, which is about what I’d expect, but then I went on a 6 game losing streak and decided it was enough for that day. And now to this day it normally takes me 5-7 matches before I win even 1, I feel there’s this void between playing casually against bots or friends and playing online that needs to be filled because now playing against the people I used to play with is boring, I’m even able to beat my brother consistently who got me into the game, but I stand no chance against most people online so I’m stuck and I don’t have the time nor mental drive to start dumbing thousands of hours into the game just to win on a semi regular basis.
Break your limits. Aim higher than yesterday. It feels much better to beat yourself than any opponent.
I agree, Quickplay is cancer.
L?
Yes it is way to compitive I miss the days when your able to have fun rule sets
I set my ruleset to free for alls, but once you get to elite smash, it's basically impossible to find people.
exactly I want to have fun with rule sets but you find nothing even in 2mil gsp which all my characters are basically in
Nintendo actually hates online play as much as we do.
I wish more people would realize its beyond smash, gaming in general has gotten very competitive when it comes to online, its like this in call of duty, league, DOTA 2, Smash, etc.. One reason I think it is like that is because as you get better you play better and better players, leading you to have to adapt and - get better - if you want to feel that dopamine from the W.
Personally, I enjoy playing on the couch with my homies on Ultimate and Melee just because it doesn't feel as competitive unless you WANT it to be,
I quit smashbros a year ago. Last week I picked the game up again to "have some fun". After one hour I was done. And don't get me wrong, I won most matches but I still hated it! Everyone is so serious about the game as if his/her life depends on it. (Almost) every match was annoying or exhausting. Glad I stopped for real... The game doesn't even have a fun singleplayer (story)mode.
So yeah... I get what you mean.
So, you just hate any multiplayer game.
Got it.
@@user-be3qc7re9o Don't randomly assume things! I just played smash bros so much I am tired of it. And a lot of other people are at this point as well. Every other game is fine for me. Grinding F-Zero 99 right now. Is a ton of fun!
"Don't get me wrong, I won most matches" LOL
lmaoo
Nah competitive play and tournaments are what make this game fun. If you work for your hard earned #1 at your local and get rewarded for it, then you would want to pursue that feeling. Most good players don’t full sweat against friends who wanna mess around and goof off. As for the online situation, if you need to use nintendos wifi system to make friends, you have bigger issues than smash bros. No hate at all, this video brings up good points.
Honestly, just don’t play online. I’m a dude who grinds ganon against bots so I can crush my friends because it’s funny. I’m having the time of my life.
I dont want to get switch online so i play against cpu and it is pretty fun i think smash is best to be played in bits when also playing other games not fulltime
I'm a casual and don't have a problem with the competitive scene. I play with my friends and try to be better than them but it's just so I can spend quality time with them. Doubt it will happen but if I get so much better than them that the skill gap is too wide, I would loose interest in the game.
2:58 - 5:34 infinitely Accurate, Couldn’t have said it better myself and the main problem with free for all battles is that someone will target you, try to take your stocks first before anyone else’s, and if someone loses, he/she will rage quit wasting everyone’s time and no one wins.
Honestly the game giving rulesets that are not yours is dumb
@@UmbraStarWolf it’s like a probability generator tbh
I agree that smash has a very high skill floor for beginners, but i feel like this video only applies to people who are not able to play in person, or at least have an online friend group to enjoy the game with. When online is the only place you have to play smash I agree it sucks, here's a real life example. When smash came out, my whole friend group played smash and grinded the game together, and that was fun. But after Sora came out my friends started to drift away from the game, partly because we got older but also the game was just not being updated. I was one of the last to go out, and I did so by burning myself out with quickplay. However, Last year my high school was offering an esports team with smash as one of the options, and I joined because why not? I was good at the game and its fun! And even now I'm still hyperfocused on this game because I have a community to play around, teach, and a healthy competitive environment. So I don't think that people should stop trying to win, because this is a game that some people truly enjoy, but as someone who has had to teach newcomers to play the game, I can agree that it is a very hard game to get into, but if you enjoy it and have a good community there should be no reason to stop tryharding.
Yes it's too competitive. As someone who has several muscle-scheletric problems, I can't physically work out the game 8h at day as a pro player. Maybe I just want to have fun for an hour, but playing with the bots that can be spammed to death it's not that fun. So I have to go to lobby and if someone is at low level it's because they are doing a challenge to reach Elite fast. And there is no casual mode to play with. At least just the meter? I like the spirit meter, because you can win like in other fighting games with a cool finisher or do a cool move and then get fucked by the counter the second after and it's hilarious. Even with friends it gets competitive, if they win I have to get good (but I can't, I'm still trying to find a good controller set to not hurt my hands after 10 minutes), if I win they get frustrated, because online it's all about win. One time I found a guy that rematched me 4 times, 3 times he won, I slightly get better match after match, and the fourth one I won and he fucking disconnected... For real? Man your videos are the first ones I see in 30 years about having fun with a Smash Bros game more than beating the shit out of everyone
One objection on Splatoon. I’m 99% sure Turf War is the “casual” mode.
But it's also the default mode, which is why you'll have no problem getting full lobbies even years later compared to Smash Ultimate where it takes forever to get a full lobby of 4 players.
Also recently mkleo byleth gsp was spotted, it was 7 million, online sucks and it’s not worth it
So i tried online with my brother AND WE LOST EVERY MATCH HOW
Yeah every time I go to quick play I lose a lot of brain cells, got sonic, Kirby, and megaman in quick play and I hated that grind.
Playing for fun doesn't neccesarily mean that you play to win, but besides, i kind of agree. Let's go back to Smash 4 again 😑
See what happens when nintendo doesnt give us good online
Very good video, actually inspirational
i think the point is lost halfway through the video, it becomes too competitive because almost no one is there to play casual when you want to wind down.
imo no one is to blame here, casuals always drop the game after some time to play other games. Plus smash games have always been carried by competitive players since they are the ones that stick with the game all the way.
Its unrealistic to ask them to dumb down their competitive nature for your sake, they love the game and dont mind the pain of grinding to get to where they are.
Just hop off and play other games, there are like tons of casual games out there. Or get a hobby...
I dont think casual gamers are the ones in need of a hobby.
Splatoon 3 has the same exact issue, but worse in my opinion.
I started playing the game 2 months ago and its just frustrating tbh.
Like I dont even understand why a lot of things happen and the online mode from nintendo fcuking sucks.
So when I go to something like Matchbox (I go to Smashdojo for eu players) I just get fisted hard. Currently Im 0-20 and nearly the lowest player on the site, because even people with my elo are so much better than me.
So now after giving it a shot for 2 months and playing a decent amount of time I will probably quit again, because its just not a fun experience.
I know its hard to get into fighting games, but I havent had as much of a hard time when I started with GGS than I have now with smash ultimate
Wired LAN helps a lot. Sometimes, it’s not how much you practice. It’s what and how you practice. Never go into a game on autopilot if you’re looking for wins. If you just want to have fun, drop the competitive mindset for a while.
How about you let people play how they want maybe the tryhards have fun playing that way.
It's when they ruin it for everyone else that it becomes a problem.
Triggered much?
@@redgerran yeah I just wish people could get along
I love playing 1 v 1 but Im also open to items fffas and other game modes
@@ayar2 no because I actually like playing with other rules than just 1 v 1
I can't wait to see what they do with the next smash. Must be pretty far into development by now.
Hey traditional fighting game player here, so from what I'm seeing is a case of what I like to call a casual migration but with a caveat, which comes for every game at some point, the game starts slowly losing players until you get to the point where only the grinders play the game. The issue that I'm is the casual player base kinda dipped cause of mixture of multiple different issues outside of the grinding mindset, first ultimate feels way too unresponsive to be enjoyable even for a casual to, the online being the way it is player base wise, and the fact that it's got worse online servers have ever been. Do people need to take a chill yes. But also maybe I'm misreading your intentions during the whole asking why people strive to be the best and and what do you think you could possibly gain happiness wise from being the best. It felt like you were just discrediting what people find happiness in, happiness doesn't always have to be an end goal, it can also be what the journey brings. I get your frustrations but I think it's too late for any newcomers to come to ultimate to have fun free for alls as sad as it is to say
If you want to play less serious matches not on tournament rules there are always options to play in arenas with friends or other people online. You can even toggle a beginner option if you're new to the game and it prevents people in elite smash from seeing it and being able to join. If you're playing online, especially in a skill based match making system like quickplay, you have to expect to find people that challenge you. Regardless if somebody likes "just playing for fun" at the end of the day you're playing a fighting game. People are going to try to win, this is the same with any game with competitive mechanics. If somebody doesn't want to put in the effort to get to the skill level they consider "good", that's fine. Play with friends, find casual streamers, open arenas with more casual settings. There is nothing wrong with that, but I get the impression this video is criticizing the community as a whole for having a certain preferred way of playing the game, and I think that doesn't make a ton of sense.
If the point is having fun and not winning why are you so mad about losing? By your logic you shouldn't care about getting beaten online OR maybe winning is the point and then why are you mad that people are trying their best to win? Just a thought :)
It's not about winning or losing, it's about playing. If you pick up the game and everyone you play against is a kamikaze Bowser, spammy Ness, or sweaty top tier, you're spending more time trying to play than actually playing. It's OK to play to win, but a lot of people play like their mother's life is on the line, and that's where I think things go a little overboard.
I ain’t gon hold you if you a casual player then jus don’t play fighting games because all of them are going to have competitive people and that’s jus how it is, also I only got into this game because of it competitive people I get it, it’s not for everyone but it’s not fair to hate on either side because of how they like to play
Some competitive people I understand, but if it's a party game and everyone is trying to become the best in the world at it, there's a problem.
Agreed, As someone who has played smash competitively for almost a decade 100% players take this game way too seriously. I've gone to hundreds of tournaments over the years and have thousands of hours in the game and even I think that lmao. My goal was not to win going to tournaments it was just something to do and meet new people, make friends, socialize but I found when I was at them some people (not all) where there to win by any means necessary, they wanted to be a top player and their whole personality and self worth revolved around the game which is extremely unhealthy which I agree on.
Only thing I disagree on is the majority of people who play elite smash online. From knowing the "smash is my life" kind of people I don't think people on elite smash are trying to become the best. I know this because my region is region locked and I know pretty much everyone in my region who play in tournaments and most ppl on elite I do not recognize, plus when you've played enough you can tell a competitive player from an online shitter because the way they play is completely different. Thats because in an even more demoralizing way the people beating you online that you think are super sweaty usually get dusted at an actual tournament and will most likely go 0-2, I've seen it a lot. The game is very gatekeepy in that way and the reason its dying at a local level its unfortunate that the skill gap is that big.
There are exceptions to this but the real "smash is my life" kinda ppl don't really play elite smash because the netcode is bad and the quality of practice is bad because most players on elite are bad so its not worthwhile to them so most play offline with any chance they can get or if they do play online its in arena's with other good players.
Obviously there are exceptions to this, for example Onin won smashcon just practicing on elite smash so its not like competative players don't play on elite its just usually when they do they are messing around with some random char or farming for clips not actively practicing which I feel is a common misconception among casual players online.
Not to deter you from coming to tournaments for whoever is reading this though cuz I made it sound worse than it is, yes there are those people but thats like any competative game. Most ppl I've met at tournaments are pretty chill and usually local communities are very welcoming and willing to help you learn. If your ever thinking of going to a tournament you probably will get shit on and lose hard, I know I did at my first few but don't get discouraged by it, just try to have fun, make some friends and its a great way to learn if you wanna become that elite smash warrior that gate keeps everyone from elite that you used to complain so much about lmao
My main point though is competitive smash and elite smash are two very different things if you think they are one in the same
The game is just wack LMAO 😭 roll is busted online gl even trying to react to that shit 💀
So to me this sounds like your local 0-2er complaining. I think the big disparity between being able to find comp ruleset matches vs free for all matches online is because of why people are playing this game. The competitive players play it to get better, to prove their skill, and to have fun. And the easiest way of doing that is playing online. Most people who play casually don't play online cause they don't play the game that much. The majority of people online at any given time are gonna be competitive players. I wouldn't say the game is too competitive. It's just as competitive as any other fighting game. That's why people play them. Is smash a fighting game or a party game? The answer is yes. Its both. Losing is frustrating, putting in so many hours and still losing can be soul crushing. But there's excitement in learning why you lost. How you can play better, learning new tricks and tech. You see yourself over time slowly losing less and less and by less and less. You go from getting 3 stocked, to two stocked, to really close games, to winning. And it's exciting seeing that progression. Seeing your hard work payoff. And that's the fun part of smash, seeing yourself improve. Taking games off players that a year ago you couldn't have dreamed of ever beating. That's the joy of it. And another beautiful part of it is, if you want to take a break from playing competitively, you can still pick illegal stages, you can turn items on, you can allow meter. If you don't enjoy the competitive grind, then that's fine it's not for everyone. And as for your analogy about naming competitive splatoon players vs smash players, I think that boils down to splatoon is team based. You don't root for players, you root for teams. Could I name a splatoon team? No. But I don't play splatoon. I could ask my mom to name a smash player and I doubt she could. I don't think smash is too competitive. I think it's just as competitive as any other fighting game.
-the local 0-2er
Perfectly said! I agree with everything
Dawg free for all being your favorite way of playing smash is so telling. Win neutral on your own ya bum.
No 😡
dude respectfully you gotta reevaluate the script some of the stuff said here was outta pocket
I agree with some of your points but I really think that you don’t have the correct mindset when it comes to the game, hence your frustration with the situation.
Like you said at the start of the video, you played this game a lot so your are expecting to win. Later in the video you claim again and again that’d you’d want to win but it has gotten very hard. You know who else wanna win ? Players who will just grind this game. The try harders, the sweaters. That’s literally why they spend so much time in this game trying to win and perfecting their gameplay. That’s what they find fun.
You want what the grinders want without the grind.
I know playing a competitive game, especially a 1v1 competitive game is rough. If you lose you have no one else to blame but yourself.
If you don’t want to grind the game I respect it. Instead try to enjoy the game itself rather than the outcome. Try to implement a different playstyle, or play a different character. Or simply go for other « less competitive » rulesets.
As for me, I played this game 1000h+ but I just get literally moped by my brother. But I don’t care, I still have fun. There’s so much I still am trying to learn about this game and that’s why I still enjoy it despite the losses.
TLDR : Don’t focus on winning or losing but on what makes your experience with your game fun
I understand your complaints but there's a couple issues people might take with the message.
If you want a TL:DR
Yes GSP is bad.
Yes Toxic mindset is bad, but
1. Comp playerbase is being punished by Nintendo for being a fan of the game which is not good.
2. Elite Smash & Top Players don't represent why the larger majority plays comp. They enjoy the game. Getting good at a game is fun and sometimes you can make cash from it. Plain & simple. Elite Smash only nets a toxic mindset out of choice.
I could get into more detail but I don't wanna throw a wall of text in anyone's face if the video is about explaining why people getting tryhard kills enjoyment.
Feels kinda ironic.
100% argee
honestly people will make a little kids game competitive for the fuck of it they just want to play players that are on nearly the same level since Nintendo Wi-Fi play is shitty and always lags this is what you get a "competitve game" full of players that want to be the best at something not to mention nearly all fighting games have a big competitve side that are most likely bigger then smash ultimate
The compeitive Smash Community Is soft asl, especially in a era of not working out the bad MUs.
This is a bad take. It’s human nature to compete. I know it’s a “ party game” but theirs no denying that this is a fighter. Nintendo just wants to make it seem family friendly.
Better to be family friendly than scandal friendly
The Competitive Splatoon point is the single dumbest thing I've heard on this channel. Maybe you can't name a Competitive Splatoon Player because you aren't into Competitive Splatoon? That's like expecting yourself to understand a reference from a movie you didn't watch.