Don't forget CZcams is two weeks behind the Patreon! www.patreon.com/UsuallyHaplessVideos If you want to see reverse slopes in action, 50 minutes worth of the Duke of Wellington hiding behind a hill went up today!
My goodness, Hapless has touched grass It's really cool seeing real life footage being taken and explained how it applies to the game like how Free Whiskey did for his walkthroughs of real WW2 battlefields
One thing to add is that combining both makes very tough defenses. Infantry on the reverse slope with support weapons behind on the next forward slope.
An excellent video as always. In the opening shots I couldn't help anticipating John Cleese walking out holding a microphone and saying "And now for something completely different" though.
Another point worth mentioning is the "military crest" aka a point on the reverse sloap where you barely expose enough of yourself to spot or engage the enemy. This offers some of the long sight lines of the forward slope but the protection and "hiddenness" of the reverse slope. It's basically a fancy name for hull down.
"Forward slopes have more of an attritional character". For a modern example, think of 3 para companies advancing on Goose Green settlement after the action at Darwin hill. B,C and D company experienced withering direct and indirect fire advancing toward the airfield on a forward slope.
One big thing I see not mentioned is the value of the reverse slope against tank cannons. A tank cannot effectively put its gun down at the crest of the hill, and so is forced to put its hull within line of sight of the defender. It is very difficult (especially for Soviet tanks) to get an effective hull-down position while assaulting a reverse slope defense.
True, but it depends a lot on the reverse slope and exactly which tanks are interacting with it. You can get reverse slopes that are almost imperceptible to the human eye.
@@usuallyhapless9481 also true! In CMBS, Russian tanks tend to perform relatively well, since most of the supposed slopes are just a few feet tall over the range of +-1 mile. However their slightly older counterparts in CMCW Combined with the overall… fragility of most Soviet tanks and it can become a serious obstacle to overcome. I’ve noticed that in CMSF2 and CMBS, many of the struggles with inverse slopes can be negated with artillery: many artillery teams also have drones available, which can allow for visibility without ever actually cresting the ridge. Combine that with heavy artillery, and you can do some serious damage, especially in regards to things like vehicle optics and people. Still. It’s often better to have that reverse slope position, simply because of the advantages it offers. If there’s a second hill, as well, you can use that ones forward slope to retain an effective ranged fire base with things like ATGMs.
Great video on Reverse and Forward slopes. I think you should've mentioned "skylining" against the sky being a key factor especially forces without optics or advanced fire control systems since the mark one eyeball can easily see movement over a ridge as compared to a cluttered background. Mortars do break the trend of indirect fires being unable to get past a reverse slope but due to their lack of range they are still limited. In more modern examples of this we have seen Saddam Hussein army try to use reverse slopes to get tank engagements closer like during the battle of 73 Easting yet failed due to their lack of Modern optics and FCS for their vehicles. Another modern example is in the Ukrainian counter offensive the battle of Robotnye being a town in the middle of a cauldron surrounded by high grounds held by Russians in Forward Fridge positions (Trenches) but also hiding behind reverse slopes (holding supplies, vehicles, reserves) to conceal their units, but this also meant Russian armor trying to enter the Cauldron would be immediately spotted reducing the fight into an infantry one. I know those last two examples are a bit too long for the video but they're noteworthy for any reading this who isn't aware of any of it's uses. Great video, and hope to see more videos in the great out doors or perhaps a museum!.
Just wanted to add my two cents. Reverse slopes are particularly useful when you're significantly outnumbered, even if not necessarily outgunned. A reverse slope is very similar to an ambush in some ways and can allow you to quickly degrade an enemy force before it has time to bring it's numbers to bear. This works two-fold in rapidly destroying enemy assets, which in turn helps panic and suppress others. Also it should be considered that a ridgeline defense can be employed, not just a forward or reverse slope - this is generally a compromise between the two, but is particularly useful for armour. Especially if you have a small recce team hidden on the forward slope that can spot targets, the tanks can quickly roll up over the ridge, fire off 1 or 2 rounds, before then reversing out of harms way. Generally it's smart to then jockey left or right a fair distance before conducting another 'pop-up' attack, so as to avoid guns/missiles trained on your old position.
I seem to recall that Wellington was a big fan of reverse slopes (certainly there's the famous example at Waterloo). They provided good protection against French artillery and observation, and he could position his men at the optimal "one volley and charge" range from the crest. Pretty much all the same reasons you described for why you might prefer a reverse slope position in the modern day. It seems that, while a lot of the specific implementations can change radically with each passing decade, a lot of the general principles of warfare can remain more or less the same for centuries.* *More or less. More general principles seem to change more slowly or less frequently than more specific implementations. But it seems that almost everything is subject to change eventually. For example, the difficulties imposed by fighting at night remained pretty much unchanged over millennia of warfare, and then night vision came along and suddenly made night combat a lot more like day combat (although I suppose the advent of gunpowder, and muzzle flashes, probably counts as a fairly significant pre-night vision change in night combat). I wonder if, with the widespread availability of cheap drones on the modern battlefield, reverse slope positions might not offer quite as much protection from observation as they used to. Perhaps observation being limited by reverse slopes is about to go the way of the difficulties of night combat.
Forward slopes mean your vehicle has its upper hull exposed (e.g. engine deck) as well, not as good as hull down. Reverse slopes also help you if your force is markedly smaller as you only engage the enemy as they crest the ridge (small chunks at a time) and aren't exposed to the entire enemy force as it is arrayed across the valley. Also the attacker may not see any tactical obstacles until they crest the ridge.
To add: observation by fixed or rotary wing aircraft, mitigates the scouting issue, although these are obviously vulnerable to AA fire, so care should be taken. (I learned that the hard way in the wargame series) Reverse slopes on the flanks are also good terrain to hide your mobile forces for enfilade fire. AA weaponry should be set up on the reverse slope, depending on how high the hill is relative to the surrounding terrain, since aircraft are very unlikely to fly so low that the crest will block them.
UH, can you share with us where do you get so mutch information about tactics and warfare? Obviously not counting with CM gameplay experience that you have
Not yet. There's a couple more Basics videos that might qualify, but they're folded in amongst the CM stuff. Specifically, ISR: czcams.com/video/Whgxfc66NAU/video.html and MG Theory: czcams.com/video/WZ9V1kt5UhE/video.html
What is your opinion on Graviteam? I enjoy both CM and Graviteam but when it comes to the technical problems I would have with the CM games I prefer Graviteam.
Not sure why people keep bringing up Graviteam. It is a very different game from CM and they try to do different things. If anything I would suggest Armored Brigade as that one plays somewhat similar to CM. Also AB arguably portrays cold war better than CM does.
Don't forget CZcams is two weeks behind the Patreon! www.patreon.com/UsuallyHaplessVideos
If you want to see reverse slopes in action, 50 minutes worth of the Duke of Wellington hiding behind a hill went up today!
Well it has to be better than the dross from Ridley Scott.
This new CM engine's graphics look splendid. Wonder how good the physics are.
Can confirm that the physics are excellent... which is why some of the footage of me getting down the reverse slope didn't make it in :P
The sheep AI look good too. Kind of unnecessary, though.
I've seen better TBH.
@@BrorealeK tac ai for sheep was a questionable investment by the devs...
Subtly, Hapless has let us know that he considers sheep to be his enemy.
You can't trust 'em! They're up to something!
Clearly not a Welshman.
Guys, guys! They made reverse slopes from the hit game Combat Mission: Battle For Normandy into a real thing! Wow!
Casting my vote for calling them "Pixelsheepen" henceforth.
Love the sheep
In this episode of basics, Hapless teaches us how to touch grass
My goodness, Hapless has touched grass
It's really cool seeing real life footage being taken and explained how it applies to the game like how Free Whiskey did for his walkthroughs of real WW2 battlefields
I couldn't find any actual footage of someone standing on a forward slope saying "this is a forward slope", so...
Educational with a touch of overcast british skies. Would have been more surprised if you showed us sun on the peaks.
I ordered some clear sky, but it didn't turn up in time.
And was snow.
Oooh, Hapless is turning into a vlogger now with real life footage! :D
Wrong, Hapless isn’t real, he’s just a figment of the Engine
One thing to add is that combining both makes very tough defenses. Infantry on the reverse slope with support weapons behind on the next forward slope.
Yep. I left counterslopes out, but I have a good one I can visit.
What I try to remember each time, and fail consistently to apply, is that if you choose a position where you can see everyone... everyone can see you.
An excellent video as always. In the opening shots I couldn't help anticipating John Cleese walking out holding a microphone and saying "And now for something completely different" though.
The sheep would have gotten him
Love these types of videos. Please upload some more Tactical Basics!
unmistakably yorkshire, wonderful
Another point worth mentioning is the "military crest" aka a point on the reverse sloap where you barely expose enough of yourself to spot or engage the enemy. This offers some of the long sight lines of the forward slope but the protection and "hiddenness" of the reverse slope.
It's basically a fancy name for hull down.
"Forward slopes have more of an attritional character". For a modern example, think of 3 para companies advancing on Goose Green settlement after the action at Darwin hill. B,C and D company experienced withering direct and indirect fire advancing toward the airfield on a forward slope.
One big thing I see not mentioned is the value of the reverse slope against tank cannons. A tank cannot effectively put its gun down at the crest of the hill, and so is forced to put its hull within line of sight of the defender. It is very difficult (especially for Soviet tanks) to get an effective hull-down position while assaulting a reverse slope defense.
True, but it depends a lot on the reverse slope and exactly which tanks are interacting with it. You can get reverse slopes that are almost imperceptible to the human eye.
@@usuallyhapless9481 also true! In CMBS, Russian tanks tend to perform relatively well, since most of the supposed slopes are just a few feet tall over the range of +-1 mile. However their slightly older counterparts in CMCW Combined with the overall… fragility of most Soviet tanks and it can become a serious obstacle to overcome.
I’ve noticed that in CMSF2 and CMBS, many of the struggles with inverse slopes can be negated with artillery: many artillery teams also have drones available, which can allow for visibility without ever actually cresting the ridge. Combine that with heavy artillery, and you can do some serious damage, especially in regards to things like vehicle optics and people.
Still. It’s often better to have that reverse slope position, simply because of the advantages it offers. If there’s a second hill, as well, you can use that ones forward slope to retain an effective ranged fire base with things like ATGMs.
Great video on Reverse and Forward slopes. I think you should've mentioned "skylining" against the sky being a key factor especially forces without optics or advanced fire control systems since the mark one eyeball can easily see movement over a ridge as compared to a cluttered background. Mortars do break the trend of indirect fires being unable to get past a reverse slope but due to their lack of range they are still limited. In more modern examples of this we have seen Saddam Hussein army try to use reverse slopes to get tank engagements closer like during the battle of 73 Easting yet failed due to their lack of Modern optics and FCS for their vehicles. Another modern example is in the Ukrainian counter offensive the battle of Robotnye being a town in the middle of a cauldron surrounded by high grounds held by Russians in Forward Fridge positions (Trenches) but also hiding behind reverse slopes (holding supplies, vehicles, reserves) to conceal their units, but this also meant Russian armor trying to enter the Cauldron would be immediately spotted reducing the fight into an infantry one. I know those last two examples are a bit too long for the video but they're noteworthy for any reading this who isn't aware of any of it's uses. Great video, and hope to see more videos in the great out doors or perhaps a museum!.
Skylining didn't make it in, sadly, being a little more... micro-tactical? Honestly, I probably skipped it purely because CM doesn't model it.
Wellington made excellent use of the reverse slope at Waterloo to keep most of his forces out of harms way of Napoleon's mass batteries.
Hold that thought for the next War Room episode ;)
This has strong Monty Python "How not to be Seen" vibes.
Just wanted to add my two cents.
Reverse slopes are particularly useful when you're significantly outnumbered, even if not necessarily outgunned. A reverse slope is very similar to an ambush in some ways and can allow you to quickly degrade an enemy force before it has time to bring it's numbers to bear. This works two-fold in rapidly destroying enemy assets, which in turn helps panic and suppress others.
Also it should be considered that a ridgeline defense can be employed, not just a forward or reverse slope - this is generally a compromise between the two, but is particularly useful for armour. Especially if you have a small recce team hidden on the forward slope that can spot targets, the tanks can quickly roll up over the ridge, fire off 1 or 2 rounds, before then reversing out of harms way. Generally it's smart to then jockey left or right a fair distance before conducting another 'pop-up' attack, so as to avoid guns/missiles trained on your old position.
Aw man, you're real? I was hoping you were an articulate super AI
Jury's still out. You don't see any of my body in this video.
The dream is still alive!
I seem to recall that Wellington was a big fan of reverse slopes (certainly there's the famous example at Waterloo). They provided good protection against French artillery and observation, and he could position his men at the optimal "one volley and charge" range from the crest. Pretty much all the same reasons you described for why you might prefer a reverse slope position in the modern day. It seems that, while a lot of the specific implementations can change radically with each passing decade, a lot of the general principles of warfare can remain more or less the same for centuries.*
*More or less. More general principles seem to change more slowly or less frequently than more specific implementations. But it seems that almost everything is subject to change eventually. For example, the difficulties imposed by fighting at night remained pretty much unchanged over millennia of warfare, and then night vision came along and suddenly made night combat a lot more like day combat (although I suppose the advent of gunpowder, and muzzle flashes, probably counts as a fairly significant pre-night vision change in night combat). I wonder if, with the widespread availability of cheap drones on the modern battlefield, reverse slope positions might not offer quite as much protection from observation as they used to. Perhaps observation being limited by reverse slopes is about to go the way of the difficulties of night combat.
Forward slopes mean your vehicle has its upper hull exposed (e.g. engine deck) as well, not as good as hull down.
Reverse slopes also help you if your force is markedly smaller as you only engage the enemy as they crest the ridge (small chunks at a time) and aren't exposed to the entire enemy force as it is arrayed across the valley. Also the attacker may not see any tactical obstacles until they crest the ridge.
Goodbye Tom Scott, hello Usually Hapless!
To add: observation by fixed or rotary wing aircraft, mitigates the scouting issue, although these are obviously vulnerable to AA fire, so care should be taken. (I learned that the hard way in the wargame series)
Reverse slopes on the flanks are also good terrain to hide your mobile forces for enfilade fire.
AA weaponry should be set up on the reverse slope, depending on how high the hill is relative to the surrounding terrain, since aircraft are very unlikely to fly so low that the crest will block them.
Yep, yep, yep. Also, drones can push that aerial observation right down to the tactical.
I feel sorry for those enemy sheep.
Cracking job, Hapless!
Ta very much! I've got a few grass-touching Basics up my sleeve
Lovely british weather
UH, can you share with us where do you get so mutch information about tactics and warfare? Obviously not counting with CM gameplay experience that you have
Living in what looks like a small library helps
Please post mod pack info, looks realistic. Thanks in advance.
Will post as soon as I remember where I got it from.
those sheep about to become statistics
anyone else find it really hard to analyze terrain in CM, the colour pallet used makes everything look flat
Sometimes. There are gridded ground textures mods that make it much more obvious, but it would be a nice toggleable option
First 3 minutes - Wow, Game Engine 5 looks amazing, they finally improved the shitty engine!
Whose sheep mod is that?
The comment's 😅
Do you have a dedicated playlist about tactic basics?
Not yet. There's a couple more Basics videos that might qualify, but they're folded in amongst the CM stuff.
Specifically, ISR: czcams.com/video/Whgxfc66NAU/video.html
and MG Theory: czcams.com/video/WZ9V1kt5UhE/video.html
@@usuallyhapless9481 nice, thanks. Looking forward to see this format more, highly entertaining and useful not only in CM
Sheep
Sheep
I see multiple shoop.
What is your opinion on Graviteam? I enjoy both CM and Graviteam but when it comes to the technical problems I would have with the CM games I prefer Graviteam.
I picked up Graviteam in a Steam sale but have never played it, so wouldn't say I was in a position to judge
Not sure why people keep bringing up Graviteam. It is a very different game from CM and they try to do different things. If anything I would suggest Armored Brigade as that one plays somewhat similar to CM. Also AB arguably portrays cold war better than CM does.
@@alexy590 maybe, if say the 49 to early 60s, so far i do not see it, let alone to say some other factions was not even there.
A Combat Mission player touching grass? Nice try, I see right through your lies, where is Hapless and what have you done to him?