CMPE PVP: Operation Whetstone Mission 3: Destroy
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- čas přidán 22. 02. 2024
- British forces return to storm Copehill Down in the final mission of Fight Club's Operation Whetstone.
Fight Club International is a wargaming experimentation group learning to fight across all domains of conflict and competition. #ThinkFightLearnRepeat
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It was great to face off against you in this mission. I agree with your commentary on REDFOR, I felt that I didn't have enough personnel or equipment to defend the village, in reality a full company group would have been much nicer to have. From my side I knew I couldn't hold you at range outside of the OBJs, the UK kit is simply much better (as in reality). My general SOM was to repeat what I did to poor 3rd Sect when they approached and attempted the left hook, with reinforcements being timely to prevent you from coming all the way around and outflanking me. I had kill zones established in the streets in anticipation that the best place to destroy your forces was during their break-in, which is exactly what happened. This would be assisted by fire from the BMPs (those which hadn't fallen prey to your AS90s).
From my side, the things which kept me on my toes the most were the AS90s which were completely devastating, combined with the isolation element using Javelins on the right. They completely threw a wrench in my reinforcement plans.
Looking forward to the next one!
22:10 NLAW gunner definitely had an ancestor who was a Victoria Cross recipient PIAT gunner.
True to VC qualification he did get killed out of shot later
The RPG shot that knocked out your Challenger is the kind of shot that every soldier who's ever fired an AT weapon has wet dreams about... that was both incredibly satisfying, and painful, to see
Sort of disappointed by the extremely limited timeframe of the mission, it feels to me like it would have been a really interesting engagement with just a little more time to develop
Can't wait to see some proper brawling after the "float like a butterfly, sting like a bee" approach of the previous missions. At least, that's what the Challengers imply...
Your self-criticism at the end was accurate. I would like to add that your decision to attack with one Inf Platoon at a time was a mistake as well. One route of attack can always be shut down by a concentration of enemy artillery, so it is important to use two prongs of attack if possible. By using only one platoon at a time and feeding the rest of your force in afterward, you gave the enemy time to attrit your force (if you spend enough time in front of an enemy defense, everything can happen: remember the key holed BMP and the RPG hit on your MBT). When 3rd platoon attacked into the village, it was already down one squad and quickly shut down by artillery. Even so, it managed to enter the village before becoming combat ineffective. An attack, performed by 2 platoons in line, could have gained a stable foothold for the last platoon.
As for the game engine: while I don't own combat mission professional, I like to split my infantry squads during the deployment phase and put them into different vehicles (example: split 1st and 2nd Squad into A and B teams and then put both A teams and B teams in the same vehicle) this way a squad can dismount and occupy two locations during one turn.
Planning stage was exceptional this time round. The visualization of the triangle you’re going to create was an ahah moment for me since I feel like in my own plans I tend to go for more flat deployments with depth, instead of planning around certain shapes in terrain
Overall, I think you did well with the assets you were given, but I think a little more aggression might have been called for-especially with your armor. For instance, when you did that thing and your opponent [reacted/didn’t react], I might have pushed harder to [gain a positional advantage/destroy his ability to resist/seize the objective/all of the above]. Hindsight is 20/20, though, so overall nice job.
(This comment was written before the video was released.)
I enjoyed this one. Your explanation was wonderful, as always.
The time limit really required you to play aggressively, and meant this scenario didn't seem to be so much your cup of tea. I think it's fair to say you much better suit a more patient style of play.
I love these videos that show what Black Sea could/should have been. I understand now it's too late to add expansion packs due to current events, but I'll never understand why Battlefront didn't add a NATO module - just ported over from SF2 - way back when.
Any chance modders can do it?
Sadly, it's not moddable. Also sadly, the ten year time gap between SF2's 2008 and BS's 2017 is a hell of a long time in military technology. The SF2 'legacy' kit available in CM:Pro is pretty outclassed.
@@usuallyhapless9481 you mean the SF:Pro Edition isn't even using up-to-date units unless individual users do the work themselves?
@@4rnnr_asThe quick run down is that CMPE basically mashes Black Sea and Shock Force 2 together. There's some new stuff for customers (ie. defence contracts), such as Boxer or Stryker Dragoon, but everything else is the same as it is in Black Sea or Shock Force.
Which means that there is a mix of stuff from different time periods.
The time limit made things tough! Though it does suggest a modern peer to peer (is that the correct term) engagement would be expensive and bloody, and probably reduce both sides to using much simpler, cheaper and less accurate weaponry very quickly. A 20 minute dump of artillery followed by an en masse attack would probably be the only way to go. Can't wait to see more PvP from you!
Very interesting and enjoyable, would be great to see more CMPE British games
Fantastic video and analysis as always, Hapless.
that nlaw gunner from 22th minute, how the hell did he fit in that boxer with size of his balls?
What lost you the battle was the time limit...I assume its low due to the fact CM:PE is meant for PVP and it would take ages to do a 45-min-1h battles but...still its so limiting I find it unrealistic. Its my biggest gripe with CM scenarios.
i agree the clock makes it feel so unrealistic and borderline suicidal when it comes to battle tactics
I think Operation Whetstone is more designed with PVE in mind and against a non-reactive AI opponent 30 mins is a lot more doable. Still tight, but that's what's needed sometimes.
Love me some good industrial metal.
The time limit really killed this one, would have been a much more interesting fight with an hour to spend on it, and perhaps a bulked up red side to make the fight a bit fairer in manpower
Excellent! Looking forward to this...
It's good to see the t72b3's armor being effective for once, although I don't think the roof era could've stood up to a javelin atgm though. The atgms in these games seem to be a little bit too good at outspotting the tanks. Supposedly in Ukraine atgm teams have complained about being not only outspotted, but also outranged by tanks as well.
The defender did a great job at positioning his forces. I probably would've left an mg team and a bmp to cover the north, but that's just because I personally would send forces from both sides. The rules of war state to take ground you need to surround, isolate, and then destroy your opponent. Good job on your use of artillery to cover your assault, and your use of hmg/gmg fire in support of your advance.
I do have a few issues about this senario since normally the russians would have setup some scouts, atgms, foward observers and agl in the woods arround the village. Thus you would have been forced to either go tru the forested minefields or engage the troops in the treelines, likekely getting targeted by krasnopol or losing a couple vehicles to well hidden atgm teams. There is a senario in black sea called brutal somewhat similar to this one were you play as the afu and defend a river town from the ruaf. The key to win is to place atgms or a spotter in the treelines arround the town to pick off some attackers before they reach the river and cross it.
Man we need some of these features in civilian CM games. The ability to call in coordinates based arty without eyes on is awesome even if slower or less accurate.
Time limits really do not mesh well with your strengths as a player I think. You have this incredible talent for attritional warfare and are capable of these absolute masterstrokes sometimes, but time crunch seems to unravel a lot of that. Understandably! Aggression is hard
That hits the nail on the head, I think. I've spent a long time growing out of trying rapid, dramatic manoeuvres that look cool but get all my troops killed... but sometimes that what you need.
I think will was watching this video 😂 that spotting round on your inf was just painful!
Yeah, that one made me wince. Not so much as the miracle shot on the CR2... once I'd calmed down and realised that it hadn't noclipped through the turret cheek armour.
Industrial Metal - Agent of Chaos // Royalty Free Copyright Safe Music is my favorite song!
How convenient!
I was under impression that Boxer had STANAG 4569 Level 6 protection. Shouldn't it be rather harder to colander with 30mm through the front?
It does and it should. That's a bug.
They won the psychological game.
Not sure when u plan to do a campaign again but id love to see how you'd tackle the Netherlands campaign in shock force 2
Even after reviewing the actual redfor, you still had only a slight numbers advantage. Attacking into a defensible position with a time limit really asked for an overwhelming advantage for success.
Great stuff. What's Combat Mission Proffesional? are all the other Combat Mission games different?
CM Pro is basically CM with a few extra nuts and bolts for defence stuff. For instance, this battle kicked out a 37,000 line log that melts my brain but could be useful data for someone.
Just a quick question regarding a different CM, will you try to attempt either the Soviet or American campaign in CM:Cold War in the future?
Maybe. They're both pretty hardcore and I just finished the Scottish Corridor, which was also pretty tough, so... maybe something a little more digetible first...
Thank you for answeing : ) Yeah the campaigns in Cold War are pretty... challenging, with all the big missions you get from mission 3 onwards @@usuallyhapless9481
Good fight :)
Do you think this scenario would've been meaningfully easier to handle with an actual IFV capability, whether something like the Bradley or even a substantially less capable platform like Warrior or its now dead intended CT-40 upgrade?
Potentially. Certainly the reloads for the RWS wouldn't be bugged :P
But, the mix of .50 cal and 40mm GMG is pretty solid- adding in 30/40mm cannons would be an advantage with less ammunition. There is a Boxer variant with a turret 30mm (or 40? can't remember), so I could swap them over and try it out.
So do the vehicle GMGs operate properly in the professional version or are they broken like in SF2?
Wessex Storm in combat mission
What combat mission version is this please?
At about 22:10 a situation where a 30mm on the boxer would have been the difference between life and death.
To be fair, the 40mm HEDP could have done just as good a job at nailing the BMP, it was just out of ammunition and I didn't know about it needing manual reloads
I don't know if they broke something (or modern hardware broke something) but I've noticed a reoccurring problem with the modern setting combat missions where APCs and IFVs randomly bug out and stop firing their weaponry despite having ammo available.
Ah it's because the boxers need to open up to reload their RWS's. Them not automatically doing that seems to me to be a coding issue. Having to micro that when there is no display for how much ammo a RWS has left in its magazine is a game design decision.
The flipside is that having crewmen randomly stick their heads up to reload the RWS no matter how dangerous it is causes its own problems.
@@usuallyhapless9481 A point that
13:30: Why did the ERA stop the Fin round? Presumably it is modelling say Kontakt-5 or maybe Afganit?
It looks like the round hit the upper turret at an oblique angle, so it would’ve probably shattered (or ricocheted) even without the ERA
@@AUsernameWeShallMarchToKiev Sure, but I tend to take "hit rays" as an approximation.
I’m sorry what game or brand of combat mission is this?
Professional. My understanding is that it's a mashup of Black Sea and Shock Force 2 that's usually reserved for government contracts but is situationally available members of the public.
@@Prayin4headeyes oh thanks bud appreciate it. Back and forth on their website and mod sites for the past 2 weeks 😂
What @Prayin4headeyes said
@@usuallyhapless9481 me sad me want game 😔.
What makes it a "professional" version?
CMPE has multiple differences from “civilian” CM games, but the most important (barring it’s replay functionality, which normal Combat Mission doesn’t have), is the fact that it has updated TOE and equipment for the British and U.S. Army in 2022
For example, CMPE has NLAWs, Boxers, and (according to some stuff I’ve seen on the UK Fight Club’s channel) Stryker Dragoons with the 40mm remote-controlled cannon.
That and the fact that it’s locked to only official government use/Fight Club (civilian playtesters licensed by the UK government), make it a “professional” edition
@@AUsernameWeShallMarchToKievThanks
what is music in trailer?
czcams.com/video/4bqvERzCdBs/video.htmlsi=ms9wITmjDpEYmwTo
@@usuallyhapless9481 lovely
How do we get this game? Looks heaps better than black sea and SF2
does time limit matter in single player??
Yes
@@usuallyhapless9481 what happens if you go over?
Is there any given reason why the Battlefront devs don't allow non-LOS plotting in their regular games?
Boxer falling prey this easy to 30mm? Huh… the time limit is crazy too. Nice video and the battle but the mission maker could do better.
The Boxer's frontal armour is a bit under-represented.
RPG Gunners in Urban combat are OP in Combat Mission. BF need to tone them down. So may times they're basically a guaranteed enemy squad wipe.
If it looks risky ,just pretend to do it.
Then reverse behind the smoke.
You know they are professional so have to asume
They will catch you if doing sensible thing.
Game?
I went right. It is viable and you shwack the AAA in the arse, which is nice.
Did you play against the AI though?
🥺 I want a Boxer too i wish i could get CMPE 😭
Might wanna hold that thought...
@@usuallyhapless9481 No way
🤔@@usuallyhapless9481
CMPE would be perfect, But a public version maybe.
This video should not been shown to any of the British Army chiefs, they'd have a heart attack from seeing this!
the time constraints on TOO MANY missions in this franchise are ridiculous. artificial fake difficulty/
it is almost as ridiculous as its 20 year old engine barely chugging with these graphics.
The challengers in this scenario saw more action than the ones in Ukraine!
Ew.