Thanks for the info. Also, a good idea to check the funnel-shaped rubber connector on the bottom of the TPI oil tank from time to time. Checked out my 2020 KTM 300 xcw at 100 hundred hours. It had multiple cracks in the rubber connector.
@@slaverace1 thank you for the video, one question I still have, this oil injection of TPI works with 0 throttle on long downhills? I shut mine off for every downhill to avoid the engine brake, not sure if for TPI is needed or they inject the oil even when going 2000rpm with no throttle.
Great video Jeff, thanks again for setting the record straight. It is really unfortunate that snake oil salesmen and keyboard enginidiots manage to snag so many unsuspecting victims.
Thanks Jeff at least once a week im explaining this to a customer, so much so that i keep a 2 stroke cylinder handy to show people. Only thing i would add is pack a chainsaw and be part of the solution rather than the problem.
I now see that after watching this video that this TPI system works just like the multi port fuel injection works in a automotive engine. This makes perfect sense now that I see that only air goes thru the throttle body so putting oil in the fuel does nothing but waste oil.
I'm at around 175 hrs on the original oil pump, I have not changed it because I think the chances of getting a faulty new pump are greater than the current one failing. It's a simple pump and should not be prone to failure. The pumps cost closer to $200 here in Canada.
*200 "dollars" hehe yeah just giving you a hard time but even with the exchange rate that is a gouge. Time to open the fricken' borders! I bet the Sumas mail drop is jammed to the gills.
@@endurok39pnw Bike parts are much more expensive up here and shipping from the US is killer too. My US mailbox is literally across the street from the border, they could almost throw a package over to me, but I won't be able to access it for some time still.
I don't have much time for watching videos but I did see one of yours. You have some great stuff in BC and we have similar trails here. If you weren't so far away, I'd beg you to join in on a ride. I love gnarly trails.
@@slaverace1 well when the borders open up I'd be glad to show you around if you want to come up. You have some trails in CO that are at the top of my list of places to ride as well.
@@PNWEnduro Thank you for the offer. I'll try to get up there before I'm too old to ride the gnar. I'm 67 YO so the clock is ticking. I'll gladly give you a tour of Colorado trails if you make it this way some day.
well, ktm does has some ridiculous recommendations. such as rebuilding top end every 80 hours normal use, 40 for racing. like what the hell. or even the oil pump recommended at 80 hours
I've got 100 hours on my 21 300tpi, thought I'd measure how much 2t I used last ride, I ran 70miles in about 3 and half hours trail riding, bit woods, bit road, bit of everything. Anyway bike only just over 65ml of oil and about 7.5 litres, well looked after bike seems to run great ,but this dose seem very low to me
Jeff , great information, I really find all your material very good - I have a 2021 TE300i and it’s been great - i try to ride more and worry less as you advise but just wondering if Amsoil interceptor is fine instead of the dominator - only because a few bottles free up to now I’ve been using the powerex I have your S3 low elevation heard - power commander tunner and your adjustable idle screw and the bike runs fantastic I ride In the interior mountains of BC Canada Thank you
Jeff you have mentioned that you use Amsoil Saber in the carbureted models 80:01. Can you still use that stuff in the TPI models or is there a specific oil for oil injected applications? Thanks 🙏 I buy Amsoil products wholesale that’s why I ask. I use a lot of Saber in all my current two strokes. Its great stuff just didn’t know if there is an equivalent if it can’t be used.
His intank fuel filter does seem beneficial to me. Not for the purpose of running premix in the tank, but I have seen several instances of the stock plastic filter splitting. Do you guys sell a filter like this with an aluminum housing?
Awesome video Jeff. I never truly understood how the transfer ports worked. So with my new 21 300XCW TPI, fuel never sees the bottom end then? I understand there is no need for it to be there since combustion is done above the piston. So with oil injected in the throttle body before the reeds and with the incoming air, don't the reeds get gummy from just oil and air going across them? I mean with the carbed bikes the pre-mix I assume always kept the reeds clean. No? Thank you sir Sid
With the current path of air/oil coming up from the bottom end and fuel only getting to the top of the piston via transfer ports, how is there enough time for everything to mix? I always thought the reason for everything being spun around in the bottom end by the crank was to promote an even mixture of all three headed up to the top of the piston. Just trying to learn.
Jack: Great question. It's actually somewhat amazing that 2 strokes run at all. When studying the 2 stroke engine in detail, it's actually quite magical compared to a 4 stroke. With carbureted 2 strokes, the carb does a great job atomizing the fuel and doesn't need additional help but does get a little as it passes through the ports. Once the atomized premix hits the cases and engulfs the crankshaft, the spinning crankshaft creates arguably detrimental turbulance. Then the piston comes down, compresses the crankcase mixture which transfers the mixture to the top of the piston. At X degrees BTDC the ignition fires the plug during the compression process and "we have lift off Houston". Tpi models go through the same "cycle" but the atomizing is done by the injectors. Many think the injectors produce a stream of fuel but 50 PSI pushes the fuel through several small holes in the injector which produces a spray mist. Hope this helps!
@@slaverace1 Thanks for the reply sir. We forget that this "Symphony" is happening at a crazy rate of speed. Not just fuel gets dumped in here, oil gets squirted in there, and pull some air in from over there, and cross your fingers. Have a great holiday sir and enjoy your family and be safe. Please keep the videos coming. Such great tech. at an easy to understand level and not just sales BS glossing over. I like data and reasoning. All of which you provide, PLUS trail stewardship which we often forget. Thanks again Sid
Isn’t there an accumulation of oil in the bottom that provides the oil for each stroke? In a mixed gas situation the oil and gas seperate but oil previously seperated is transfered back into the mix. That is how one was to judge (during rebuild) if the ratio used was too lean or rich (size of the puddle). That is how there is enough time. The oil that enters at the same time as the gas gets processed later with other gas. Correct me if I’m wrong here. I make no claims of being an expert.
What about the start up process ( 2,3 minutes plus ) on the TPi’s . Seems like the Oil pump would be not adding much oil and you’d be running on straight fuel?
Hey Jeff, Quick question regarding the oil pump.. I have plated my '23 GasGas EC300 and am curious on how the oil pump decides how much oil to send? Main reason I ask is usually a carb 2t will only oil when on the throttle. So actually, a hill with a long decent can potentially damage engine if engine breaking for too long of a period and seize. Does TPI oil pump go off the TPS or RPM or both? If i were riding on the street cruising 55 and let off throttle is the Oil pump going to send less oil because im coasting and not on throttle? Or will it decide since my RPM is at a certain level send "x" amount of oil. I dont ride long distances but only 5-6 miles at a time to connecting trails. Thank you for your awesome products and videos! Ive already learned so much from you!
Hello TR5: First of all, carbed bikes use premix that is the same ratio at all RPMs and will NOT damage the engine on long descents unless the pilot jet is too lean. The ECU controls the oil on TPi models and does a good job for all conditions. Worrying about the oil delivery is a big waste of riding time. There are bigger fish to fry.
That's a common issue that can be resolved with an ECU Reflash slavensracing.com/shop/slavens-mule-ez-ecu-tuning-reflash-for-ktm-hqv-gas-gas-tpi/ that will also give it more HP.
Well in saying this I have an 18 with 55 hours witch has swollen the skirt and stuck the rings in and scored the barrel due to running to lean. Would you say oil pump?
Nathan: I'm a little confused. You said it was running lean, which was a problem with ALL '18 and 19 models, but you are also questioning the oil pump? Sounds like a lean fueling issue to me, not the pump.
@@slaverace1 when pulling the cylinder off to inspect it looks super lean like it's been starved of oil (no way on earth that would of lasted 55 hours like that). Very light powdery couler.. now if the pump was dispersing the correct amount of oil it wouldnt be running lean right??
I am one of the unfortunate ones who lost a oil pump, 2020 300 xcw 2 hours on it and oil pump went but since then it has been good minus a ccp sensor great bike overall though
@@jadenantal1652 it did shut down because it blew up lol there is nothing to tell you the oil pump failed no lights or no safety thing to shut the bike off just catastrophic failure since this has happened I've gone back to a carb/pre mix bike 22 sherco 300 se to be exact and couldn't be happier no regrets
I’m on my third spark plug on a 2019 250xcw. First two fouled out within 20 hours. Both times it happened around startup. Running motorex in the res. Non ethanol 93 in the tank. Never mixed gas. Some days it feels doggy like it won’t clean out. Any thoughts?
Thanks for the replies. I'll be sure to do it. I love the bike when it's running well. Crisp and rips. But man it sucks the life out when its having an off day.
I put like 200h on my 125cc 2009 just this year. I i don’t understand why they didn’t just keep premix. Like everything is dead simple on my 2009 bike and that’s why it’s still alive. Btw the bike has about 3000h and been torn down three times. Oem cylinder, about 5 pistons (not sure if first owner changed once or twice). Tpi will kill your bike faster, i would personally like to have premix. But it is what it. When they work they are beautiful
I owned one since that comment, have about 120h on my ktm 300 exc tpi 2021 sixdays. Put about 30% of that on the road and 50% medium enduro training. The rest of that 20% is just wood/gravel roads@@davidbeauvais1364
I really want to use a oil that gives it that old 2 stroke smell we all love like Klotz Bean oil. Is there a injection oil (smelly one) I can use in my 21’ XC 250 TPI?
Josh, Sorry for the issue but I'm unable to duplicate it. Plenty of volume on my computers and phone and I've asked friends to check and it was fine. Do you have the volume on the video and the computer volume set to the max? Do your speakers have an adjustment?
Just an add to this info. I just bought a 21 300 XC-W tpi and the dealer gave it to me with 3/4 of a tank of premix gas. The service tech who handed the bike over told me it was a break-in procedure they do with all the tpi bikes and that I should burn that tank before putting any fresh gas in. Fouled two plugs before burning half of it, got frustrated and dumped it out. Also, not to complicate the issue but, if you use the GET plate and move the injectors to the front of the throttle body, wouldn't you now be able to accomplish what the snake oil guys are trying to do? Since now the fuel is injected into the crank case.
I really enjoy your very helpful tech videos. Jeff.
Thank you as always.
"Throttle therapy"...I've never heard this before...brilliant!
Thanks for the info. Also, a good idea to check the funnel-shaped rubber connector on the bottom of the TPI oil tank from time to time. Checked out my 2020 KTM 300 xcw at 100 hundred hours. It had multiple cracks in the rubber connector.
Great info on trails, very true. I have built lots of trails. Thank you for the TPI info!!!
We call those guys SPUFS “swap parts until fixed”. Thank you for what you do sir😎
Parts changer. Im gonna steal that one. You sir are a true master. Thanks for all the info.
Any time!
Really enjoyed that, very informative and straightforward. Thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Amen Jeff on everything you said!!! Thank you for spreading good information and being a great ambassador to the sport!!
Thank you!
@@slaverace1 thank you for the video, one question I still have, this oil injection of TPI works with 0 throttle on long downhills? I shut mine off for every downhill to avoid the engine brake, not sure if for TPI is needed or they inject the oil even when going 2000rpm with no throttle.
@@2WheelDerness
If the engine is running the pump is pumping.
@@slaverace1 czcams.com/video/7237cTD4I8o/video.html just saw for 2023 has a diffrent injection
Really appreciate your video thank you very much. I'll ordering more stuff from you soon...
Thank you.
Thanks for making the video, I learned something.
Great video Jeff, thanks again for setting the record straight. It is really unfortunate that snake oil salesmen and keyboard enginidiots manage to snag so many unsuspecting victims.
I’m this
This is bull crap if you put an ounce in your gas tank it 100 percent keeps your bike a little lubed.
Great Video you nailed it ! Ride your bike
Thanks Jeff at least once a week im explaining this to a customer, so much so that i keep a 2 stroke cylinder handy to show people. Only thing i would add is pack a chainsaw and be part of the solution rather than the problem.
I now see that after watching this video that this TPI system works just like the multi port fuel injection works in a automotive engine. This makes perfect sense now that I see that only air goes thru the throttle body so putting oil in the fuel does nothing but waste oil.
Are those hoses pinch resistance? If so what kind are they?
I'm at around 175 hrs on the original oil pump, I have not changed it because I think the chances of getting a faulty new pump are greater than the current one failing. It's a simple pump and should not be prone to failure. The pumps cost closer to $200 here in Canada.
*200 "dollars" hehe yeah just giving you a hard time but even with the exchange rate that is a gouge. Time to open the fricken' borders! I bet the Sumas mail drop is jammed to the gills.
@@endurok39pnw Bike parts are much more expensive up here and shipping from the US is killer too. My US mailbox is literally across the street from the border, they could almost throw a package over to me, but I won't be able to access it for some time still.
I don't have much time for watching videos but I did see one of yours. You have some great stuff in BC and we have similar trails here. If you weren't so far away, I'd beg you to join in on a ride. I love gnarly trails.
@@slaverace1 well when the borders open up I'd be glad to show you around if you want to come up. You have some trails in CO that are at the top of my list of places to ride as well.
@@PNWEnduro
Thank you for the offer. I'll try to get up there before I'm too old to ride the gnar. I'm 67 YO so the clock is ticking. I'll gladly give you a tour of Colorado trails if you make it this way some day.
It’s funny how some people will try to go against manufacturers recommendations. Great video!
well, ktm does has some ridiculous recommendations. such as rebuilding top end every 80 hours normal use, 40 for racing. like what the hell. or even the oil pump recommended at 80 hours
KTM is kinda going against their own recommendation now with the move to TBI.
I've got 100 hours on my 21 300tpi, thought I'd measure how much 2t I used last ride, I ran 70miles in about 3 and half hours trail riding, bit woods, bit road, bit of everything. Anyway bike only just over 65ml of oil and about 7.5 litres, well looked after bike seems to run great ,but this dose seem very low to me
Jeff , great information, I really find all your material very good - I have a 2021 TE300i and it’s been great - i try to ride more and worry less as you advise but just wondering if Amsoil interceptor is fine instead of the dominator - only because a few bottles free up to now I’ve been using the powerex
I have your S3 low elevation heard - power commander tunner and your adjustable idle screw and the bike runs fantastic I ride In the interior mountains of BC Canada
Thank you
Hello:
Interceptor and Dominator are both good choices.
Jeff you have mentioned that you use Amsoil Saber in the carbureted models 80:01. Can you still use that stuff in the TPI models or is there a specific oil for oil injected applications? Thanks 🙏
I buy Amsoil products wholesale that’s why I ask. I use a lot of Saber in all my current two strokes. Its great stuff just didn’t know if there is an equivalent if it can’t be used.
Saber is too think for the injectors. Switch to Amsoil Dominator.
His intank fuel filter does seem beneficial to me. Not for the purpose of running premix in the tank, but I have seen several instances of the stock plastic filter splitting. Do you guys sell a filter like this with an aluminum housing?
Yes, sometimes the OEM filter splits. Go to your local automotive parts store and purchase a steel one for $5-$10.
Awesome video Jeff. I never truly understood how the transfer ports worked. So with my new 21 300XCW TPI, fuel never sees the bottom end then? I understand there is no need for it to be there since combustion is done above the piston. So with oil injected in the throttle body before the reeds and with the incoming air, don't the reeds get gummy from just oil and air going across them? I mean with the carbed bikes the pre-mix I assume always kept the reeds clean. No?
Thank you sir
Sid
Correct, the fuel never sees the bottom end and thee reeds don't get gummy.
@@slaverace1 I was wondering about the reeds since no fuel was travelling along with.
Thanks again.
awesome.
Great video, does the gearbox oil also lube the cranks bearings ??
No
With the current path of air/oil coming up from the bottom end and fuel only getting to the top of the piston via transfer ports, how is there enough time for everything to mix? I always thought the reason for everything being spun around in the bottom end by the crank was to promote an even mixture of all three headed up to the top of the piston.
Just trying to learn.
Jack:
Great question. It's actually somewhat amazing that 2 strokes run at all. When studying the 2 stroke engine in detail, it's actually quite magical compared to a 4 stroke.
With carbureted 2 strokes, the carb does a great job atomizing the fuel and doesn't need additional help but does get a little as it passes through the ports. Once the atomized premix hits the cases and engulfs the crankshaft, the spinning crankshaft creates arguably detrimental turbulance. Then the piston comes down, compresses the crankcase mixture which transfers the mixture to the top of the piston. At X degrees BTDC the ignition fires the plug during the compression process and "we have lift off Houston".
Tpi models go through the same "cycle" but the atomizing is done by the injectors. Many think the injectors produce a stream of fuel but 50 PSI pushes the fuel through several small holes in the injector which produces a spray mist.
Hope this helps!
@@slaverace1 Thanks for the reply sir. We forget that this "Symphony" is happening at a crazy rate of speed. Not just fuel gets dumped in here, oil gets squirted in there, and pull some air in from over there, and cross your fingers.
Have a great holiday sir and enjoy your family and be safe. Please keep the videos coming. Such great tech. at an easy to understand level and not just sales BS glossing over. I like data and reasoning. All of which you provide, PLUS trail stewardship which we often forget.
Thanks again
Sid
Isn’t there an accumulation of oil in the bottom that provides the oil for each stroke? In a mixed gas situation the oil and gas seperate but oil previously seperated is transfered back into the mix. That is how one was to judge (during rebuild) if the ratio used was too lean or rich (size of the puddle). That is how there is enough time. The oil that enters at the same time as the gas gets processed later with other gas. Correct me if I’m wrong here. I make no claims of being an expert.
303hrs on my oil pump...
I agree....ride the damn thing
what premix oil is the best to use in the 300 xc W bikes ? newer ones.
The system is designed for Motorex 2T but I use Amsoil Dominator.
So by adding oil into the fuel, it does' lubricate the cylinder wall?
No
How hot do tpi bikes run during normal use? My 2015 husqvarna operates at around 140 on most rides.
Most bikes should run in the 180-190 range.
Good to mentioned that a cause of oil pump failure is from debris contaminating the oil and clogging the pump’s solenoid.
What about the start up process ( 2,3 minutes plus ) on the TPi’s . Seems like the Oil pump would be not adding much oil and you’d be running on straight fuel?
Hello:
When the engine starts, the pump provides plenty of oil for all RPMs. Everyone needs to stop obsessing about the oil and just ride.
JS
Hey Jeff,
Quick question regarding the oil pump.. I have plated my '23 GasGas EC300 and am curious on how the oil pump decides how much oil to send? Main reason I ask is usually a carb 2t will only oil when on the throttle. So actually, a hill with a long decent can potentially damage engine if engine breaking for too long of a period and seize. Does TPI oil pump go off the TPS or RPM or both? If i were riding on the street cruising 55 and let off throttle is the Oil pump going to send less oil because im coasting and not on throttle? Or will it decide since my RPM is at a certain level send "x" amount of oil. I dont ride long distances but only 5-6 miles at a time to connecting trails. Thank you for your awesome products and videos! Ive already learned so much from you!
Hello TR5:
First of all, carbed bikes use premix that is the same ratio at all RPMs and will NOT damage the engine on long descents unless the pilot jet is too lean.
The ECU controls the oil on TPi models and does a good job for all conditions. Worrying about the oil delivery is a big waste of riding time. There are bigger fish to fry.
@@slaverace1 thank you!
My 2020 ktm 300xc tpi is smoking a lot and Boggs in low rpm’s, switched both sensors, new pipe. Can’t figure out the problem. Any thoughts?
That's a common issue that can be resolved with an ECU Reflash slavensracing.com/shop/slavens-mule-ez-ecu-tuning-reflash-for-ktm-hqv-gas-gas-tpi/ that will also give it more HP.
Well in saying this I have an 18 with 55 hours witch has swollen the skirt and stuck the rings in and scored the barrel due to running to lean. Would you say oil pump?
Nathan: I'm a little confused. You said it was running lean, which was a problem with ALL '18 and 19 models, but you are also questioning the oil pump? Sounds like a lean fueling issue to me, not the pump.
@@slaverace1 when pulling the cylinder off to inspect it looks super lean like it's been starved of oil (no way on earth that would of lasted 55 hours like that). Very light powdery couler.. now if the pump was dispersing the correct amount of oil it wouldnt be running lean right??
So if you have some pinging it’s not running lean?
This video is about oil, not fueling. If you are experiencing pinging, that is a lean fueling issue.
I am one of the unfortunate ones who lost a oil pump, 2020 300 xcw 2 hours on it and oil pump went but since then it has been good minus a ccp sensor great bike overall though
when your oil pump went, did the bike automatically shut down? worried mine might do that and just seize the engine from no oil
@@jadenantal1652 it did shut down because it blew up lol there is nothing to tell you the oil pump failed no lights or no safety thing to shut the bike off just catastrophic failure since this has happened I've gone back to a carb/pre mix bike 22 sherco 300 se to be exact and couldn't be happier no regrets
I see you removed the thermostat. Is that a good idea?
I did it because it improves cooling and reliability.
I’m on my third spark plug on a 2019 250xcw. First two fouled out within 20 hours. Both times it happened around startup. Running motorex in the res. Non ethanol 93 in the tank. Never mixed gas. Some days it feels doggy like it won’t clean out. Any thoughts?
Hello, That is a mapping issue. Ask your dealer to update the maps. If that doesn't correct the issue, a GET ECU will fix it and give you more power.
Ya definitely mapping, happened to my brothers bike. Just take the ecu in and the dealership will sort the problem out for u.
Thanks for the replies. I'll be sure to do it. I love the bike when it's running well. Crisp and rips. But man it sucks the life out when its having an off day.
Definitely mapping. I have 250h on my 2019 300xcw and still on original plug.
How does the crank and rod get lubrication?
Always great info!!! I was buying into the snake oil for a little bit.
Oil injection directly into the cases.
What do you think about ipone mixing oil? Is there any difference between ipone and motorex?
iPone is not readily available in the US so I've never used it.
@@slaverace1 but I think if it's fuel injected recommended it's good. Thanks!
I can't seem to find a straight answer on whether engine braking will hurt the TPI bikes or not.
Please explain why you think it would cause damage. There are much bigger fish to fry. Just go ride.
Looks like you took the thermostat out, can you give me your part # for the hose kit you used on your bike
SSKTM-114 slavensracing.com/shop/radiator-hose-thermostat-bypass-kit-for-ktm-125-530-by-samcosport/
@@slaverace1 hi, do you really need the thermostat for the 2020 300xc??
@@vancebivens6846 I second this comment, should i just remove it on my 21 300xc TPI?
I put like 200h on my 125cc 2009 just this year. I i don’t understand why they didn’t just keep premix. Like everything is dead simple on my 2009 bike and that’s why it’s still alive.
Btw the bike has about 3000h and been torn down three times. Oem cylinder, about 5 pistons (not sure if first owner changed once or twice).
Tpi will kill your bike faster, i would personally like to have premix. But it is what it. When they work they are beautiful
You are saying it will because you are too poor to try a TPI bike out. Get your money game up like me.
I owned one since that comment, have about 120h on my ktm 300 exc tpi 2021 sixdays. Put about 30% of that on the road and 50% medium enduro training. The rest of that 20% is just wood/gravel roads@@davidbeauvais1364
Why people think KTM would sell a faulty system is beyond my understanding
I really want to use a oil that gives it that old 2 stroke smell we all love like Klotz Bean oil. Is there a injection oil (smelly one) I can use in my 21’ XC 250 TPI?
Sorry, don't know. Might be worthwhile to post that question on the chit chat forums.
Technoplate.
I love your videos. But I wish the audio was enter. Hard to hear you
Josh, Sorry for the issue but I'm unable to duplicate it. Plenty of volume on my computers and phone and I've asked friends to check and it was fine. Do you have the volume on the video and the computer volume set to the max? Do your speakers have an adjustment?
My father had a bad pump, now he's dead.
That’s it, I’m buying another FX WHEN THE TIME COMES!
Just an add to this info. I just bought a 21 300 XC-W tpi and the dealer gave it to me with 3/4 of a tank of premix gas. The service tech who handed the bike over told me it was a break-in procedure they do with all the tpi bikes and that I should burn that tank before putting any fresh gas in. Fouled two plugs before burning half of it, got frustrated and dumped it out.
Also, not to complicate the issue but, if you use the GET plate and move the injectors to the front of the throttle body, wouldn't you now be able to accomplish what the snake oil guys are trying to do? Since now the fuel is injected into the crank case.
Yes, the GET relocation kit will put the oil where it will be beneficial but the oil pump delivers plenty of oil and adding oil is not needed.
The tapping noise on everything with ur screwdriver was too annoying to watch.
I'll tap a little louder next time.