Get at Full Natural Guitar Tone by reducing PHASE CANCELLATION!
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- čas přidán 17. 05. 2024
- In this video I go through the annoying phenomenon of phase cancellation, you know when the sound waves from multiple speakers collide and cancel each other out. This usually results in a thin, tinny guitar tone. I go through a couple of method how avoid this and get a full, natural and spatially rich guitar sound.
I'm using a 2021 Marshall Studio Vintage SV20H with a 1970 Marshall 2x12 model 1972B with T1221 Celestion Pulsonic Greenbacks. The guitar is a 1973 Gibson Les Paul Custom - Hudba
I hope you hit 100k subscribers this year, I appreciate that you never asked for subscribers, never make any stupid thumbnail faces, and make great content.
Thanks! I’m glad to hear that!
@@JohanSegeborn And you're a humble gentleman too.
Class act! Love this channel!
100% this
🤔🤪😝😱🤨😮😜
-thumbnails nowadays
This is perfect timing. Was just having phase issues yesterday. Thank you, Johan.
Glad it’s put to some good use! Cheers
On the front/rear micing technique, one of the signals needs to have the polarity reversed in order for it to work properly (all DAWs can perform this function). The front mic is hearing the speaker going forward while simultaneously the rear mic is hearing the speaker going backward (and vice versa). I've used a technique I learned about from Warren Huart (Produce Like a Pro) where on an on open back cab you mic front and back. He puts the capsule of the front mic perpendicular to the cone, and then directly behind that spot on the cone you put the rear mic the exact same distance also perpendicular to the cone, reversing the polarity on the rear mic. It's basically like putting two mics end to end but with the paper from the cone in between. The low end is incredible! I've gotten gloriously sounding recordings with full bottom ends from a 6 inch speaker in a tiny practice amp cabinet.
Thanks Robert! That’s a great idea I’m gonna try it too!
@@JohanSegebornyep that’s how Alice In Chains recorded guitar! Flip that phase!
I am frequently synchronizing multiple mics when micing guitars or basses. I use a device called a Cricket to send a very unique looking pulse wave through my speakers or my recording chain to make sure the phase and timing are correct. For example, using a bass DI and a mic on a cabinet always has a mic sound that's late compared to the DI. The electronic signal travels at nearly the speed of light while the speaker sound is at the speed of sound - much slower. With the cricket I can determine the delay and resolve it in the DAW. For example, a close mic'd bass cabinet is about 40 samples later than the DI at 96k in my setup. Sound travels around 3.5mm per sample at 96k. For aligning guitar mics, I will run the Cricket output directly into the speaker and move the mics until they are perfectly aligned. You can do this by listening or by looking at the waves in the DAW. The waveform created by the cricket is really distinctive and easy to figure out. I don't necessarily use it with room mics but I suppose you could.
Thanks! That’s very useful advice. Cheers
I didn’t even know this was a thing. Thanks for the educational video Johan.
Thanks!
Hi Johan, the 3-to-1 rule is often misrepresented. The purpose of it is to minimize bleed between two microphones recording separate sound-sources. The incorrect version that recommends placing a distant mic three times the distance from a sound source as the close mic is just a recipe for comb filtering (as you have illustrated in this video). As far as your room sound goes, complex reflections (as created by acoustic diffusion) can help to ensure that the sound captured by the distant mics is different enough from the close mics to minimize comb filtering, but the only way to get the sort of bloom that I think you're looking for is to increase the amount of time between the close and distant signals. This can be simulated by adding a short delay (
Always a pleasure and such great information. Thank you.
Thanks, really glad to hear that!
I check speakers with a battery, the DC will push the speaker out (+) or in (-) depending on the polarity. Some speakers like certain JBLs will be reverse polarity so it's always good to check. Also every gain stage of a tube amp flips the polarity of the signal, so some amps will be pushing and others pulling, or like in the case of 2 channel Fender amps the Normal channel will be different than the Vibrato/Reverb channel. You can check by zooming into the wave guide on your DAW to see if the wave goes up or down with the initial attack and invert the phase for that track of needed. Some people can hear/feel the difference if an amp is pushing or pulling, Steve Kimock would use a speaker cable with dual ganged banana clips so he could flip them if needed. It's also handy to have an inverted (and labeled!) XLR adapter for back of speaker or snare side mics if you're doing a lot of recording if you don't have a mixer or DAW that can do it for you.
Thanks great feedback
Thanks Johan! Explains some problems I've been having!
Thanks Eddie, glad it’s put to some good use! Cheers
Excellent video and demonstration!
Thanks, great to hear that!
I hear often times "the placing of the microphones is a science". No doubt when placed in a bad spot the sound can be ruined playing and recording. Also playing with stacks or amps in stereo can be tricky to get the best sound. Great video and great advice, thanks !
Thanks, glad to hear it!
I think what you can do is reverse the polarity of your room mic and then find the position where it cancels out the signal the most, where it will be quietest. This will mean that the wavelengths are most lined up. Then, reverse the polarity again on the room mic and you will have that full sound you are talking about
It makes the idea of using two different diameter speakers in the same same cabinet a good idea for avoiding phase cancellation. Of course, you could also just play through a single speaker, especially for recording.
Interesting! It would be interesting to calculate the phase cancellation pattern for that combination. Is it diminished or only shifted?
Aloha Johan! Very interesting. Mahalo
Aloha Victor! Glad you like it!
The moment you add a second mic, there will always be some sort of frequency cancellation/boost. You can move the mic around and/or play with polarity to get a sound you like (that doesn't mean everything is "in phase") OR you can simply stick to one mic - in that case an MD409 is the most natural sound dead on the cone on hi SPL amps, or a pre-AI version of a U87. (An 87AI has reduced headroom to achieve a lower s/n and gets a little nasty on high spl sources.
Great video! Thinking back to the days of yore (like 45ish years ago), I attended a fairly large outdoor concert featuring Cheap Trick, Van Halen and Ted Nugent. I was in front of the stage, perhaps 50 meters (165 ft) away. When Van Halen played, I could barely hear Eddie (which frustrated me). However, a friend, sitting over in the bleachers on the side, later told me that that Eddie's guitar was really, really loud where he was. Not sure if that was phase cancellation at play or what.
if you are too close you get to the sides, in between the PA main speakers. Like standing between two search lights, but not in front of them. You won't be seen. We had a similar problem once doing a video of an out door gig. We put the camera front and center to get the whole band, but we needed to be further back to get the PA. The video was un-usable because of the bad audio.
Thanks, glad to hear it!
Thanks Johan for this great sound comparison.
I use two closer mics and one room mic when recording my Tone Master Super Reverb (4x10).
Still experimenting as i want to try and capture the "in the room" sound I hear.
This has given me a few ideas.
Cheers
Pete
Glad to hear it! Cheers!
Wow, what a great subject and effective demonstration! Thanks for this. Question, what is the best way to mike the front and back of a speaker in an open back cabinet?
Johan look like a profesor of sound in this glasses . He is for sure,
without a papers !😊
Thanks 😉
Interesting video. You know so much! Thanks for sharing. God bless and rock on 👍😎🎸
Thanks! Rock on! 🎸👍
I really want to explore quad re-amping a guitar cab, digitally time aligning the sound from each speaker as heard by the microphone. Could be interesting, because the speakers are all adding to the whole sound anyway.
That’s an interesting idea for a video too!
I just realized I was using a hypercardioid mic together with a cardioid!
I think that can work well
good details for sure !
Thanks!
Ok, this is what I think: If I were you I would be more worried about standing waves due to the parallel walls and ceiling to the floor. That will do more to make any recording problematic and render it useless. Try using a stereo XY array microphone for the room ambience like the Rode NT-4. Try using another (perhaps even a different) cabinet in separate room for the ambient room sound. Rather use a Sennheiser 421 for close miking the cabinet rather than the Shure 57. The Sennheiser sounds better! Good luck!
Thanks, interesting feedback. Standing waves are certainly another thing to minimize. I’m not convinced the separate room approach will reduce cancellation though. Great idea for a video
@@JohanSegeborn It might help. This is why I also suggested using another cabinet. That way the signal will differ even more, especially the harmonic content. Plus the XY stereo mic will only be picking up indirect reflections and not direct sound which might come into competition with your direct mic-ed close range mic.
interesting very interistin johan :)
Thanks! Glad to hear it!
Personally i use one sm57 or ir's but with tour video i can try dobule mic
Would delaying the room mic with a couple of milliseconds get you out of a pinch or aligning the room mic with the close mic ?
I’ve saved some recordings that way, but I’ve also failed. Would be interesting to see how much cancellation that can be salvaged that way.
Hi Johan i got an interesting video theme for you ! How does a choke influence tone ? Marshall used 3h 5h and 20h chokes it would be interesting to compare their tone with the same amp.
I wonder how you get such good, well-defined close-miked tones without nasty proximity effect when using an SM57.
Hi! Thanks glad you like the tone. We should do a video on the proximity effect and discuss it! Cheers
i like the phase cancellation sound on a les paul. its like the brian may mod for "bohemian rhapsody.." a very "coocked wha" sound with a vox ac30 crancked sounds good! Like robert de leo style. from STP. The out of phase sounds sounds exactly like the filter matrix feature on electro-harmonix flangers
Hi! Yeah the phase cancellation between guitar pickups is a different story!
See Electrical Audio How-To: Microphone Techniques for Speaker Cabinets.
R.I.P. Steve
Indeed, he was a big inspiration, both in terms of how great he made everyone sound and also his commitment to be true and submit himself to what was unique about the bands he worked with. I have of course watched that video several times…
Definitely prefer Open back in a small space !
Interesting! I hadn’t reflected on that
👍👍
Cheers
Tip: high pass the room mic.
Yeah I use more high pass on the room
What does it sound like under water
Hahaha! I actually saw a video on that. He played an acoustic under water.
Algo😊
Crypto or math?
Phasey! \m/
😁🤘
Add 10ms to the room mic
This!
Interesting. There must be a way to acoustically treat the living room, so that annoying nagging gets phase cancelled. 😁
😂👍
Much more difficult with drums.
Yeah, that’s quite complex
@@JohanSegeborn still, tack för den här! Alltid askul och intressant att delta i dina videor, kunskap och nyfikenhet! Så jävla bra!