The Four Horsemen: Hour 2 of 2 - Discussions with Richard Dawkins, Ep 1
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- čas přidán 23. 02. 2009
- richarddawkins.net - On the 30th of September 2007, Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennett, Sam Harris and Christopher Hitchens sat down for a first-of-its-kind, unmoderated 2-hour discussion, convened by RDFRS and filmed by Josh Timonen.
All four authors have recently received a large amount of media attention for their writings against religion - some positive, and some negative. In this conversation the group trades stories of the public's reaction to their recent books, their unexpected successes, criticisms and common misrepresentations. They discuss the tough questions about religion that face the world today, and propose new strategies for going forward.
This video is provided free online by The Richard Dawkins Foundation for Reason and Science (RDFRS) and RichardDawkins.net . If you would like to support our work and help us provide more videos like this, please purchase the DVD through our online store richarddawkins.net/store/index... and/or consider donating to RDFRS: richarddawkinsfoundation.org/f...
Books by these authors:
"The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins
"The End of Faith" by Sam Harris
"Letter to a Christian Nation" by Sam Harris
"God is Not Great" by Christopher Hitchens
"Breaking the Spell: Religion as a Natural Phenomenon" by Daniel Dennett
Produced by The Richard Dawkins Foundation and R. Elisabeth Cornwell
Filmed and Edited by Josh Timonen - Věda a technologie
That was hilarious when Hitchens said he wouldn't wish people to lose faith altogether, for fear that he would have nobody to argue with. As someone who loves a good heated debate/ argument, I know where he is coming from. The look on Dawkin's face was priceless. I'm loving these videos.
Hitchens worst nightmare is to wake up in a world where everyone agreed with him lol
Was thinking this today. Hitchens was way ahead. Death awaits you and I. Only a short time to tell it like it is.
haha yep. A contrarian even amongst friends.
Your comments pack more punch without the lol. Have confidence in your words.
@@dudeeronomy3805 love to argue i think Christopher could not see at peace because riligion is faith in so many
he would then become a christian just to argue lmao
I'm not surprised Daniel Dennett likes christmas, I mean look at him!😙
HA!
IT'S BECAUSE HE HAS A LONG WHITE BEARD LIKE SANTA. HE LIKES THE FESTIVAL ASSOCIATED WITH SANTA BECAUSE HE SHARES A SINGLE COMMON PHYSICAL TRAIT WITH SANTA. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA *breathes* HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
alexander I would like to thank you for your contribution to the discourse. W*nker.
@Mike Kane Hi Mike, are you on drugs perhaps?
*LOL* The celebration of xmas is fun for most people.
We lost a great man 10 years ago today. You'll never be forgotten. RIP Hitch!
Two of of four now. Time takes its toll 😊
CZcams is forever.
@@TMK1450It fills me with dread to know that my personal favourite horseman, Dawkins, will likely be the next to pass.
I can literally listen to Hitchens talk about the sound of running water and still remain fascinated and wanting more.
watch the devil and father amorth trailer.
That can keep you fascinated too that's the sort of thing christopher hitchens needed to box with when he was alive.
He speaks with a diction and timbre that reminds me of Richard Burton reading, well, anything…
I wish this was 4 hours long.
But I’m grateful it even exists at all.
Many a night with a glass of whiskey, a cigar and the horsemen.
Same :)
Tearfully agreeing! 💜💜💜
2 years later. Not a whiskey, but bourbon and the 4 horsemen. Enjoying my evening.
The best 2 hours of conversation I've seen in a long time. I think I come back and watch this every year or so to remember how meaningful, peaceful conversation and thinking is done.
i see you commenting within the armwrestling community a lot. i’m glad i could find you here as a fellow armwrestler and philosopher alike. i was also at the high five practice with devon lol. good day
The fact that Hitch can provide deep insight, at or above the level of a brilliant neuroscientist, evolutionary biologist, and philosopher, goes to show what an brilliant person he was. He cared about nothing but gaining insight into the universe and spreading knowledge and intellectual freedom to the world.
his smoking belied his intellect and it killed him. A person that smart can read the label on the pack of cigarettes or other tobacco and deduce that 1) it [the tobacco warning] is a joke, 2) it is the truth.
I suppose he either, 1) thought the danger was a joke, 2) too stupid to quit, 3) lived in a magical world where cancer only affects others 4) Straight-up addict, who happens to be intelligent, except in the realm of his self-preservation. I'm stupider than him. yet somehow I was able to quit the legal substances that are known killers, alcohol & tobacco.
And having ppl to argue with 😂
What makes you suggest he was a mere layperson without a title? He was an author, social commentator, polemicist, etc.. And to be fair, he wouldn't dare trespass into neuroscience or evolutionary biology beyond his limitations... perhaps philosophy. It's not like they just picked some random guy off the street.
@@Hexon66 lol the last sentence
not really. He just loved whiskey and drunk people tell the truth 🤣
I can honestly say that, watching this, I frequently felt that there is no place I would rather be than in a room with these four men. I also felt acute regret on the passing of Christopher Hitchens, who, more than anyone I have had the pleasure of listening to, embodied the epitome of the ideal skeptic. He listened and heard, and always had the courtesy to say what needed to be said with far more eloquence than most of us will ever muster in a lifetime. The world has lost a rare man.
Four legends, four horsemen of reason fighting against the evil and childish anachronisms of religion and God.
RIP Hitch.
Phil.
Lost yes, not forgotten by video.
Stay Free
amen@@tinaa9231
I especially respect their willingness to disagree with each other.
Me too ... it's an absolute highlight .. and there is much to be learned from proper debate (conversation) rather than the childish point scoring and rubbish arguments to be found on social media .. But it suits our polico religious leaders that on the whole we've been manipulated into being dumb &*$£s
Why wouldn't they?
@@patrickkirby7612 If I were seated at the same table, I would be apprehensive about expressing disagreement, or receiving it, knowing their cumulative reputation.
Each of these men has an astute command of the subject, the language, and debating skills, and therefore enough confidence to both disagree and more importantly, accept disagreement.
More simply put, they regard disagreement as an instrument for progress, not rivalry.
48:11 I think what impressed me the most was when Sam made Christopher chuckle 😊
Does anyone else notice, in observing Hitchens, that he sometimes backs himself into a corner for a moment in conversation, and the subsequent challenge and questioning only makes himself sharper and reach for deeper truths? Clearly he’s a powerful intellect, and we watch him transcend himself in these moments
I've never seen him back himself into a corner. No one could out debate him.
I see what you’re referring to. I think it’s incredibly refreshing to see someone refine their beliefs and answers to difficult questions in an organic conversation.
I believe it was his hope his arguments would stimulate the same in religious discourse.
@@edwardrhea58 _"No one could out debate him."_
Well, that's not really fair. ..Selection bias, ya see..
Hitchens didn't debate what he didn't _actually_ believe in.
@@Dr.JustIsWrongwhy would he debate something he didn’t believe in?
@@willpolr _"why would he debate something he didn’t believe in?"_
I don't think he did.
4 intellectual academic freethinkers. A breath of fresh air. I wish these guys ran countrys!
(RIP Christopher Hitchens)
Hardly a breath of fresh air as Christopher keeps stinking the joint up with his cigarettes.
Oh Glen, get over yourself. Yes, we all know cigs are bad for you. I'm sure Hitch did too. He was an adult choosing to live his life as he saw fit (and a great life it was).
I still use one of Hitchen's quotes as my assertion, from a debate or discussion with Tony Blair.
"Once you assume a creator and a plan, it makes us objects in a cruel experiment whereby we are created sick and commanded to be well; I'll repeat that, created sick and then ordered to be well. And over us to supervise this is installed a celestial dictatorship, a kind of divine North Korea, greedy for uncritical praise from dawn until dusk and swift to punish the original sins which it so tenderly gifted us with in the first place. However, let no one say there is no cure; redemption is offered at the low price of the surrender of your critical faculties. "Religion" it might be said, must be said, would have to admit, makes extraordinary claims but, though I would claim that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, rather daringly provides not even normal evidence for its extraordinary supernatural claim. I am asking you is it good for our world to appeal to our credulity and not to our skepticism? Is it good for the world to worship a deity that takes sides in wars and in human affairs? To appeal to our fear and to our guilt, to our terror, our terror of death, is it good to appeal? To preach guilt and shame about the sexual act and the sexual relationship, is this good for the world? And asking yourself all the while, are these really religious responsibilities as I maintain they are? To terrify children with the image of hell and eternal punishment not just of themselves but of their parents and those they love? Perhaps worst of all to consider women an inferior creation, is that good for the world? And can you name me a religion that has not done that? And to insist that we are created and not evolved in the face of all the evidence? Religion forces nice people to do unkind things and also makes intelligent people do stupid things."
@@glennwashington5365 Four highly intelligent men having the deepest possible discussion - and the only thing you can comment on was a cigarette.
Tony England I could comment on the fact that Hitchens is now in hell and you will soon join him, Tony
Hitchens talked about Dawkins reaction to his not wanting the rid the world of religion moment at 10:45 at the end of the documentary "Collision" and said quote, "The incredulity with which he looked at me, stays with me still. I've got to say." I'm really glad I got to see that moment in this video.
Best things in life last very short, we must appreciate them while we can. We miss you Hitch.
Three of my gurus who saved me from pit of ignorance I had been living for first part of my life.
watch the devil and father amorth trailer.
gurus? That is all about the Hindu religion!
Who are the 3, which one was missing
@@Rico-Suave_ George Carlin is missing Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennett, and Christopher Hitchens
Hitchens is dearly missed.
Nope.
Yes, and I say it as an anti-communist. He truly got what islam is all about and wasn't afraid to say it, which makes him the opposite of a islamophobe, if there ever was one who irrationally feared to be beheaded by religious zealots.
Not happy he's dead but I don't miss him and did not like him
@@zenodotusofathens2122 Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, at least you dont defame him so cant complain on that stance.
@@gerritkruger4014 Defame is only if you lie. There were misrepresentations in his book the Missionary Position. I believe Hitchens defamed Mother Teresa. Strange how you are a valiant warrior protecting the moral integrity of Hitchens while he wrote a rag of a defamatory book (without one footnote) attempting to demolish the reputation of Mother Teresa.
I'm so happy that I was brought up in a home where I was taught critical thinking and never had a religion forced on to me. I didn't know that my grandmother was an atheist until I was a teenager. She always told me I had to find the answers to the big existential questions for myself, she never claimed to have some sacred Truth that I had to believe. She turned me into an atheist by telling me to figure things out for myself and to admit when I don't know something.
Sounds appalling!
How did you every get comforted without an invisible friend that never talks to you?
How did you get morals without being beaten into a soul-crushing, sobbing stupor several times a day?
How did you ever feel safe and protected and loved without an all-powerful God lurking over your shoulder, watching every move you make, reading every thought you have, ready to instantly kill you for *_any_* perceived imperfection and throw you in an eternal fiery pool of red hot magma?
How did you ever feel 'secure about the future' without a fundamental world view that this life is meaningless except as a test of hardship to be worthy of an unobtainable afterlife?
How did you get a job with a Supreme Being giving it to you?
/s
I love how chill dennett is.
Ive watched this discussion like 3 times now, I would love to be able to sit at the table and just listen these guys chat about anything :')
This is very refreshing, 4 very intelligent men having a laid-back and sophisticated conversation. This made my day.
You gentlemen definitely helped me. I was alone and struggling with my overwhelming sense of doubt, yet not getting anywhere because I was surrounded by so much strong belief. Only you gave me the facts I needed to decisively stop believing in the myth. I feel so bad that so many others are trapped because belief is so pervasive.
same
I used to love this interview until I had a supernatural encounter with Jesus
@@Hannah11235No you didn't.
Always a pleasure to listen to educated, informed discussions like this.
Hitchens on Christmas: "It's a good old norse booze-up, and why the hell not?"
lol
18:50 That french inhale by Hitchens, absolute lord.
such class!!!
Damn you are so right, I'm a nonsmoker so I didn't notice something so badass like that until you said it.
Dawkins looks surprisingly underwhelmed to finally sit next to his hero, Charles Darwin
Lol 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Ha ha. He’s got a gray beard
Brilliant humour.
Lolol
The wonderful Hitch has yet again managed to make me smarter than yesterday !
i wish this was my family and this was how the conversation went at the thanksgiving dinnertable... with granpa dennett, great uncle dawkins, the alcoholic uncle hitchens and the non alcoholic uncle harris... then i would soooooo look forward to family reunion instead of just stuffing my face and falling asleep at the dinner table....
Bruh Hitchens was so drunk in the by the mid of 1 hour and in last omg
Thank you for posting this. I can't begin to explain how influantial these men have been in my life. It's truly an honour to sit here and listen to them freely talk without being interrupted.
They've also influenced me a lot. And still do. I just rewatched the two hours. As I mature, I find myself getting more insights from rewatching the same videos and love it. Peace be upon you and godspeed 😊
I feel late to the party. Watching their debate, their relative youth while in other videos seeing Hitchens barely able to speak due to the stage 4 esophageal cancer brings me to tears. It’s as if I was asleep for years if my life not acknowledging them until now. Thankfully I can at least do that much for the technology afforded to us and the kind people who made it available. Yet I still find no solace in this. Instead I find myself wishing I could turn back the clock to be more present when such men could impact me at that time so.
You and I are still early to other parties that are going on right now!
Science, philosophy, even art and music are always coming up with new things and ideas to experiment and reminisce about, not to say they will be nearly as good as this .
similarly how thinking of things I used to experience in childhood will always feel better than how it is now. " The grass is always greener than where you stand right now".
I kind of rambled on for too long ;) but I hope to have made your day better stranger.
@@relentless5275 thank you kind person!
I love seeing Sam Harris laugh and have a good time. Makes me happy too.
Why ISLAM???
For a religion or any ideology to be true it must be
1.Mathematically consistent
2. Scientifically consistent
3. Philosophically consistent
Therefore consistently accurate ((Truth))
1. How is Islam mathematically consistent?
Answer: The fundamental belief in Islam is ((The ONENESS ☝️ of Allaahh)
Mathematically that is 1=1
1 is 1
Not 3 like Trinity (1=3)
Or Atheism (1=0)
Or other ideologies (1=X)
Or Satanism (0=1)
Therefore only Islam is mathematically consistent ☑️
2. How is Islam scientifically consistent?
Answer: Quran talks about many Scientific Facts e.g Embryology, Big Bang, quarks, photons etc...
But mainly
it talks about an ancient house(structure)
Known as The kaba and Allaahh commands the Muslims to orbit around it
((( وليطوفوا بالبيت العتيق )))22:29
Atomic structure=Kaba
NEUTRON = kaba
ELECTRON=people orbiting for purification from negativity(sins)
PROTONS= people in prostration facing it
Mentioned in a Hadith(narration) of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon Him: A person is closest to Allaahh in the state of Sajidah(prostration)
Thefore in complete positive MoDE(proton effect)
And so scientifically consistent throughout history from generation to generation till today Muslims perform Hajj.
3.How is it philosophically consistent??
Answer:
Science and philosophy or any other ideology Fails to answer
The Question (How can something some from Nothing???) a scientific impossibility
The fundamental CREED taught by all the Prophets Adam, Noah, Abraham,Moses, Jesus and Muhammad (peace be upon them All) was
لا اله الا الله
There is No GOD (worthy of worship) except Allaahh -translation)
PROPHET Muhammad peace be upon Him said who ever testifies his faith in this he Will enter the Heaven (To the effect)
Now Word for Word In Depth Analysis
لا=Nothing(both are negations)
اله=(who’s partnership is Impossible
Therefore worthy of worship)
الا=Except
الله=Allaahh
“Nothing is impossible except for Allaahh having a partner”
So..
Anything is possible for Allaahh ((والله علي كل شئ قدير)
This is the answer to the scientific impossibility
Further ANALYSIS..
“Nothing” is either
1. Impossible
2. Misplacement of something
3. A value of something (0)
If 2.(misplacement of something then it could be anything especially 💀 DEATH
Except Allaahh)
Because
If Death was in it’s place we would all be dead (Everything would seize to exist) 0 multiplied by anything =0
But Death is an inevitable REALITY (Can’t be NOTHING)
&
Since Allaahh is (The Infinitely INDEPENDENT (((1)))
He is above and beyond Time, Space And MaTTER
1/0 is impossible (check your calculator)
Result will always be 1
(Infinitely (undefined independent 1)
Now if 3. (Value of something)
It is The DEVIL 👿
SataN was rejected by Allaahh
So has NO value or worth (👁🗨)zero
Since everything has a common denominator of 1
Satan is also a being that exists 0/1=0
Therefore Satan can’t Be Nothing rather is something.
Who is worth nothing.(mathematically 0) and it serves a Purpose therefore exists.
So we can conclude with confidence that without the 1 everything is 0 but with the 1
nothing is 0.
And since everything exists therefore the existence of nothing is impossible.
Thanks for clarifying the Atheistic position further
The left brain 🧠 vs the right 🧠 brain
The debate will never be resolved since The fundamental premise of Atheism is (1=0)
So it seems that Peterson
Was left brain(1) and Harris(0)
Since they couldn’t agree completely so Not (=)
That’s true mathematically (1=/=0)
Now at one point in the debate even Harris said “that I can even accept that” on God
Thefore only once for a few seconds they both become fully rational (1=1)
I feel sorry for Jordan he had to try so hard to make it happen(Respect him for that)
He sure is an open minded guy who can pull you out of your Extreme point of views
(In this case Harris’s denial of God)
Why Jordan is 1 in(1=0)
Jordan 1:27:00(Reading )
“God is how we imaginitivly
And collectively represent the existence and actions of conscienceness across time”
“As the most real aspects of existence manifest themselves across the longest of time frames but are not necessarily apprehensable like as objects as in here and now.”
(His explanation)
“What that means in some sense is that you have conceptions of reality built into your biological and metaphysical structures that are a consequence of evolution that occurred over unbelievably vast expanses of time. And they structure your perception of reality in ways that, it wouldn’t be structured if you’d only lived the amount of time you are going to live.
And that is also part of the problem for deriving values from facts because your evencient and you can’t derive the right value from the facts that portray themselves to you in your life span.
Which is why you have a biological structure which is like 3.5 billion years old.
-god is that which eternally dies and is reborn in the persuit of higher being and truth. That’s a fundamental element of hero mythology.
-god is the higher value in the hierarchy of value
(That’s another way of looking at it)
-god is what calls and responds to the eternal call to adventure
-god is the voice of conscience
-God is the source of judgement and mercy and guilt
-God is the future to which we make sacrifices.
into the trancedental repository of reputation.
Here is a cool one if you’re an evolutionary biologist
-god is that which selects among men in the eternal hierarchy of men
(So you know men arrange themselves into hierarchy and men rise in the hierarchy, there are principles that are important that determine the probability of their rise and those principles aren’t Tyrannical/ Power they are something like the ability to articulate truth and the ability to be competent and ability to make appropriate moral judgements and if you can do that in a given situation then all the other men will vote you up the hierarchy so to speak and that will radically increase your reproductive fitness
And the operation of that process in the long expanses of time looks to me like it’s codefied in something like the notion of The God the Father.
It’s also the same thing that makes men attractive to women because women peel of the top of the male hierarchy and the question is what should be at the top of the hierarchy???
The answer right now is tyranny as part of the patriarchy but the answer is something more like the ability to use truthful speech in the service of let’s say “well being”
So that operates across tremendous expansions of time and it plays a role in selection for survival itself and it makes it a fundamental reality.”
1:48:08
Sam Harris (where he also admitted (1) therfore they agreed (1=1) even though only for a second then back to (1=0)
“To call that thing god, fine that’s the god I have no problem with but that’s not how most people most of the time are using the word
“G-O-D”
Sam is the closest we currently have to a successor for the other three
@@mohsinakhtar7876 No need for "evidence" ;). I prefer hell over worshipping a indescribable personality ... even Hitler + Mussolini couldn't beat the level of his brutally "creativeness".
history should not repeat itself.
thank you my friend for your enlightenment effort.
@@mohsinakhtar7876 Thank you for this illustration of confusion. Please note that numbers cannot be "equated" to anything other than other numbers. To suggest a meaningful link between numbers and mind states ( eg, belief systems ) is to make a fundamental error of characterisation. We can use numbers as metaphor for mind states but this step opens the door to " interpretation "..... and I fail to make sense of your interpretation.
Wow, Ben Stiller is really smart.
Lolololol
I'm deeply appreciative that every one of these guys has the passion they do. I was already questioning when I stumbled, first, upon Mr. Hitchens and his debates. This led me to ideas I hadn't though of and the other gentlemen here. Dawkins is brash, Harris and Hitchens seem to appreciate more the brainwashing the religious undergo and more ease their ideas along. It was mostly Hitchens arguments that caused the light bulb to finally click but all of these guys greatly aided my search for truth and understanding reality. I have no idea how long I would have struggled, or if I would have continued to, had I not come across such precise, in-depth, and knowledgeable observations and questions. But they didn't cause me to question, realizing I was NOT experiencing what the bible said I should did that, my own observations did that...while I can't express my views to my family and many others I know, I like seeing sincere, caring people putting the knowledge out there and, unlike the religious, aren't shoving it down the throats of others but allowing them to easily come to the knowledge IF they look for it.
I think I came about the same way. I always confuse dawkins with Darwin Hahah but thats irrelevent. Hitchens ..idk if its his voice..or his tempermatn ... Idk what it is that he just truly captivated me. It was my desire to find someone that did to me what he did- is how i came acrosd the others. Which i love the work of all of them . but hitchens had something else. Still cant identify it, and if be surprised if the othet 3 at that table didnt agtee with me that hitchens somehow had something extra to add
I think personally, I needed Dawkins brashness to really wake me out of my religious slumber.. so I suppose the differing methods are useful for differing believers.
@@JT29501 I came across him after I began doubting. I had always ONLY read/listened to believers refutation of science but once I realized their bias I began listening to these others. While Dawkins harshness was a little much at first, and I can still see how it would be ineffective to convince a believer...as someone already doubting his razor sharp analysis did help me
I'm glad you have all come over to the dark side lol sorry poor joke.. But honestly the beauty of all that we see we can appreciate because of are understanding through science. All the best to you all for the future 👍
I made the switch after reading Harris's books. I had always sensed bullshit in Christianity but it's hard to explore that when the mere mention of doubt is seen as a character flaw. You're not alone, keep learning.
I have more neural connections now, thanks to these legends.
I just found you all, and I am glad. 😊
THANK YOU 😊
The breadth of knowledge and, more importantly, wisdom, that was contained solely within the confines of that room is more awe-inspiring than any religion could ever hope to be.
I wish atheists would update this conversation, with more women involved.
Timestamps (Topics discussed):
00:00 Hour 2
00:04 War of Ideas
06:28 Cognitive Dissonance
09:40 A World Without Faith
18:42 Islam
24:02 Knowing More than What's Good for Us
32:40 Seeking Profundity
34:40 Culture
44:48 Should All Religions Be Criticized Equally?
52:55 Danger of Unreason
56:26 Hopes and Fears
58:57 End
U DA MAN
u the men
Was trying to find an argument and you made it a lot easier, thank you
Thank you for your service good man
You are the person
I felt like I was there setting with them, while I was listening to these great people, which I have infinite respect for.
Now this is my kind of party!!
I would need prostitutes and spirits for my party
watch the devil and father amorth trailer.
@@terrytibbs5678 That is because you are a pleb.
These two videos changed my life 15 years ago when they were released. I never would have imagined that 15 years later, we'd be drowning in this type of long form conversation about any number of topics. What a time to be alive!
This conversation around a singular topic, the ideas in their respective best-sellers and the responses to them, is something I'd love to see from various religious, woke, etc. experts.
Four great minds in one room!
What an absolute pleasure to listen to.
RIP Christopher Hitchens , debate like this will be lost for words without you - not ironic that there is turmoil in the middle east at this time yet again -a religious war that never ends
because their religion or faith instruct them to keep it ongoing - the 4 horsemen said they did not want to see British churches empty but there are more empty now tides are most definitely turning .
cheeky little grin to camera... LOVE IT!! :)
HOUR 5:
Bennett: BLLAUUUURRRRGGGHHH!!!
Harris (pounding shoe against head): Hear that? It's my skull! I'm soooooo fucking wasted!
Dawkins: I remember this charming young lady on the pristine sands of Bora Bora....
Hitchens: Amateurs.
My pleasure. :)
Brilliant, that was my most outrageous laugh of today... Thank you.
You're very welcome - glad to be of service. :)
What an incredible discussion....to be a fly on the wall during it is immensely satisfying and pleasurable. Thank You for posting this. RIP Chris Hitchens...
Richard Dawkins is very good at pointing out things that other people apparently haven't understood....
I wish this conversation could have continued for another hour, but they were tired and needed to end it. Thank you to all involved in making this possible.
Hitchens with the fresh drink
@Benjamin Park black :)
‘Johnny Walker Black...breakfast of champions, accept no substitutes’
I clicked on hour 2 (midway through hour 1) just to make sure.
God-damm Sam's use of analogy and incisiveness is amazing.
Thanks for clarifying the Atheistic position further
The left brain 🧠 vs the right 🧠 brain
The debate will never be resolved since The fundamental premise of Atheism is (1=0)
So it seems that Peterson
Was left brain(1) and Harris(0)
Since they couldn’t agree completely so Not (=)
That’s true mathematically (1=/=0)
Now at one point in the debate even Harris said “that I can even accept that” on God
Thefore only once for a few seconds they both become fully rational (1=1)
I feel sorry for Jordan he had to try so hard to make it happen(Respect him for that)
He sure is an open minded guy who can pull you out of your Extreme point of views
(In this case Harris’s denial of God)
Why Jordan is 1 in(1=0)
Jordan 1:27:00(Reading )
“God is how we imaginitivly
And collectively represent the existence and actions of conscienceness across time”
“As the most real aspects of existence manifest themselves across the longest of time frames but are not necessarily apprehensable like as objects as in here and now.”
(His explanation)
“What that means in some sense is that you have conceptions of reality built into your biological and metaphysical structures that are a consequence of evolution that occurred over unbelievably vast expanses of time. And they structure your perception of reality in ways that, it wouldn’t be structured if you’d only lived the amount of time you are going to live.
And that is also part of the problem for deriving values from facts because your evencient and you can’t derive the right value from the facts that portray themselves to you in your life span.
Which is why you have a biological structure which is like 3.5 billion years old.
-god is that which eternally dies and is reborn in the persuit of higher being and truth. That’s a fundamental element of hero mythology.
-god is the higher value in the hierarchy of value
(That’s another way of looking at it)
-god is what calls and responds to the eternal call to adventure
-god is the voice of conscience
-God is the source of judgement and mercy and guilt
-God is the future to which we make sacrifices.
into the trancedental repository of reputation.
Here is a cool one if you’re an evolutionary biologist
-god is that which selects among men in the eternal hierarchy of men
(So you know men arrange themselves into hierarchy and men rise in the hierarchy, there are principles that are important that determine the probability of their rise and those principles aren’t Tyrannical/ Power they are something like the ability to articulate truth and the ability to be competent and ability to make appropriate moral judgements and if you can do that in a given situation then all the other men will vote you up the hierarchy so to speak and that will radically increase your reproductive fitness
And the operation of that process in the long expanses of time looks to me like it’s codefied in something like the notion of The God the Father.
It’s also the same thing that makes men attractive to women because women peel of the top of the male hierarchy and the question is what should be at the top of the hierarchy???
The answer right now is tyranny as part of the patriarchy but the answer is something more like the ability to use truthful speech in the service of let’s say “well being”
So that operates across tremendous expansions of time and it plays a role in selection for survival itself and it makes it a fundamental reality.”
1:48:08
Sam Harris (where he also admitted (1) therfore they agreed (1=1) even though only for a second then back to (1=0)
“To call that thing god, fine that’s the god I have no problem with but that’s not how most people most of the time are using the word
“G-O-D”
Why ISLAM???
For a religion or any ideology to be true it must be
1.Mathematically consistent
2. Scientifically consistent
3. Philosophically consistent
Therefore consistently accurate ((Truth))
1. How is Islam mathematically consistent?
Answer: The fundamental belief in Islam is ((The ONENESS ☝️ of Allaahh)
Mathematically that is 1=1
1 is 1
Not 3 like Trinity (1=3)
Or Atheism (1=0)
Or other ideologies (1=X)
Or Satanism (0=1)
Therefore only Islam is mathematically consistent ☑️
2. How is Islam scientifically consistent?
Answer: Quran talks about many Scientific Facts e.g Embryology, Big Bang, quarks, photons etc...
But mainly
it talks about an ancient house(structure)
Known as The kaba and Allaahh commands the Muslims to orbit around it
((( وليطوفوا بالبيت العتيق )))22:29
Atomic structure=Kaba
NEUTRON = kaba
ELECTRON=people orbiting for purification from negativity(sins)
PROTONS= people in prostration facing it
Mentioned in a Hadith(narration) of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon Him: A person is closest to Allaahh in the state of Sajidah(prostration)
Thefore in complete positive MoDE(proton effect)
And so scientifically consistent throughout history from generation to generation till today Muslims perform Hajj.
3.How is it philosophically consistent??
Answer:
Science and philosophy or any other ideology Fails to answer
The Question (How can something some from Nothing???) a scientific impossibility
The fundamental CREED taught by all the Prophets Adam, Noah, Abraham,Moses, Jesus and Muhammad (peace be upon them All) was
لا اله الا الله
There is No GOD (worthy of worship) except Allaahh -translation)
PROPHET Muhammad peace be upon Him said who ever testifies his faith in this he Will enter the Heaven (To the effect)
Now Word for Word In Depth Analysis
لا=Nothing(both are negations)
اله=(who’s partnership is Impossible
Therefore worthy of worship)
الا=Except
الله=Allaahh
“Nothing is impossible except for Allaahh having a partner”
So..
Anything is possible for Allaahh ((والله علي كل شئ قدير)
This is the answer to the scientific impossibility
Further ANALYSIS..
“Nothing” is either
1. Impossible
2. Misplacement of something
3. A value of something (0)
If 2.(misplacement of something then it could be anything especially 💀 DEATH
Except Allaahh)
Because
If Death was in it’s place we would all be dead (Everything would seize to exist) 0 multiplied by anything =0
But Death is an inevitable REALITY (Can’t be NOTHING)
&
Since Allaahh is (The Infinitely INDEPENDENT (((1)))
He is above and beyond Time, Space And MaTTER
1/0 is impossible (check your calculator)
Result will always be 1
(Infinitely (undefined independent 1)
Now if 3. (Value of something)
It is The DEVIL 👿
SataN was rejected by Allaahh
So has NO value or worth (👁🗨)zero
Since everything has a common denominator of 1
Satan is also a being that exists 0/1=0
Therefore Satan can’t Be Nothing rather is something.
Who is worth nothing.(mathematically 0) and it serves a Purpose therefore exists.
So we can conclude with confidence that without the 1 everything is 0 but with the 1
nothing is 0.
And since everything exists therefore the existence of nothing is impossible.
@@mohsinakhtar7876 so much bullshit in a single comment. Truly fascinating!
@@mohsinakhtar7876 did you really go through the trouble of creating a bot to post this shit all over youtube or do you go yourself to each and every one of those videos posting it? jeez, the idleness. go pray to Allah to get your virgins or something.
@@mohsinakhtar7876 I don't care about your stupid argument, because it already starts with a false premise "The fundamental premise of Atheism is (1=0)".
And even if that premise were somehow true, you'd still have to prove the existence of 1.
How cool is that Dennet and Dawkins having a Martini and Hitchens and Harris with their Scotches while having this brilliant discussion.
Even amongst his closest intellectual peers, Hitchens embraces the role of the contrarian.
That’s one of the first things I noticed. Ever the contrarian! 😂
That was the most abstract Monty Python sketch I've ever seen.
I love how they closed near the end: having the ability to appreciate (and even act upon) religious pieces of art (music, literature, paintings, etc) without giving any credence to the actual truth value of the underlying deity or dogma. I had never considered this before in my own life, where I have family members that continue to practice Christianity. I still have an appreciate for well-spoken sermons, and moving worship music. Perhaps I shouldn't be so quick to dismiss the services?
9 years too late. Interesting thought. I play drums for a church occasionally and am a Dawkins/Harris style Atheist. I enjoy music and the occasional sermon as well but the music enjoyed is the secular sounds of the band/orchestra and most certainly not the ridiculous lyrics. The best sermons are the same, life lessons, poetically done, thoughts to think about. None of this though requires the belief in specific gods or even a god. If a God must be believed then there is nooo reason whatsoever that it should be any of the three big God religions, these have dangerous little tidbits that could be interpreted. Of course there is nothing wrong with attending church but prescribing to the notions is a dangerous game IMO
What an amazing video,thanks for uploading. Hitchens is so missed :(.....
Can't decide if I'm happy to have experienced this or I'm sad that this world is missing such brilliant thinkers. #sad
Sad ... I dread the day I see of Richard's demise .. I've read so many of his books and seen so much of his teaching amazing man .. and as for Hitch .. well ... :-( So sad he's gone .. what a giant among men
16:22 when Hitchens lights his cigarette and then makes that gesture towards the cameraman- such a perfect microcosmic moment of his humor and humanity. I would give anything to have a drink with him. Rest In Oblivion Mr. Hitchens
The sad thing is, it is actually insane that these men should be known as free thinkers. What they contend should be the mainstay of human thinking and development, as opposed to the ridiculous tooth fairy tales.
Agreed. I feel peace knowing that people are leaving the church in droves (20% in the past 30 years) and the numbers continue to increase.
I’m not sure why it is sad to think of these four as free thinkers. That is high compliment. Mainstays are the tooth ferry according to you. Who is teaching your kids about the tooth ferry beyond you or some random commercial or some television program u are allowing ur fam to be indoctrinated with? The magic of the tooth ferry isn’t so large as the santa clause, where u have to live in an igloo in the north pole to maybe assuage ur children against myth, tall tales, a slightly more giving spirit, jingle bell songs and lesser bullshitty c-mas songs, ya know, the season finale of our capitalistic greed. Or maybe, it’s the little baby jesus in a manger u take issue w/...a harlmess situation u have had 20+ years to figure out, like the tooth ferry...to come up with some way as to prepare this next generation with some defenses...against babies and ferries. Of course they have have all kinds if different names for all the different kinds of snow, ya know, the igloo people, which is kinda sad, all that free thinking about the different snowy types. These four should not be questioned. The tooth ferry? Yes. Jeez. Did u get demoted from preschool, and have to repeat day care for that kinda indoctrination? What was ur initial reaction when u realized u couldn’t make money off ur wisdom teeth? What happened next? Let me guess, independence day became less about freedom and more about wars u didn’t know anything about, and still don’t. Cryminie!
Fds I wish all this 4 men in this video would've met annelise michel in germany in 1976 that would the greatest thing ever.
@@jmags2586 Just because people leave church does't mean they leave jesus christ.
@@jmags2586 Google The 6 voices of annelise michel. Listen to the 6 voices of annelise michel. Google the translation of annelise michel. Listen to the translation of annelise michel.
Hitchens' reaction to an apparently unexpected camera angle change at around 16:14 is great.
Sam was drinking scotch with Hitch in the first hour and water by the second when Hitch freshens his glass!! 😂🥃
Hitch is dead. Sam isn't. I wish they'd been burning one, passing it around the table. That would have been interesting. Alcohol is toxic (root of "intoxicated." It's only medicinal purpose is sterilizing wounds & instruments. Whereas, the human body (and canine, other animals) evolved a cannabinoid system to take up the compounds found in cannabis.
I didn't think there was anything great about Hitch slugging whisky and smoking cigs (who extremely unhealthy habits). Taking years off his life.
Haven't read much of Dawkins, but I think out of these four men, Dennett's books are the best.
Dawkins is the closest to God status 🙌🏾
Thanks Richard. This is a great panel discussion. I fully appreciate the exposure.
The look of incredulity on Dawkins’ face when Hitchens professed he wouldn’t wish to see religion totally eradicated…stays with me still. I’ve got to say.
😏
I'll have a 100 more hours of this, thank you very much.
Me too, with a scotch on the side. This was brilliant. Sorry it took so long to find it.
I can't believe it either, this video needs to be shared!!!
Everyone here is brilliant. And they dig deep into their own wells of experience. But Hitchen's history and travel depth just make him the single greatest intellect that ever lived. For the rest of history, people will go back to that well. The lead singer of the four horsemen.
Hitchens was such a great orator, but Dawkins is the most grounded and considered. I thoroughly enjoy watching these interactions.
The Israel-palestinian conflict under discussion at the end of this video is disturbingly prophetic here in 2024.
I love how this slowly, and gradually descends into an interview between Harris and Hitchens.
Yeah, I wish Dawkins had talked a little more. We know what Dannett thinks already
And how Hitchens gets more and more pissed
Four truly great human beings!
We all missed an opportunity to force these four gentleman to run planet Earth.
also For truly great human beings!
What brave men these are. Not just for standing up and questioning popular conception but facing up to their personal misconceptions and accepting the logical conclusions. Many of faith are simply unwilling to answer truthfully enough to reach their conclusions.
16:17 ..a subtle reminder of Hitch's insuperable charisma! 🤣
This discussion is very valuable. Thank you!
This was a superb experience to sit and listen to. I long for such conversations in my life but this is as close as I get. For what it’s worth: I enjoyed every moment of this. Thanks.
It really is so very enjoyable to hear such clear truths uttered in such calm intellectual ways. This is something very rare in our times. And I take particular enjoyment in Hitchen's refined use of language.
Dawkins hit the nail, When I was a little girl I happily sang the Gregorian chants in Latin but then, Joan XXIII in the Vatican 2nd Council modernized the mass and was translated in my own language and men, what a lot of nonsense it all was.
watching this in 2024 makes me want to jump into the screen and take Hitch's cigarettes away! great discussion and still very relevant.
On Sam's statements around 32:30. Yes, a new sort of church and space to feel profundity is important... I used to have exactly this thought years ago when I went into the large Barnes and Noble on E. 18th in NYC on Sundays: "this is my cathedral... of knowledge". This point is, I think, very important. These days, it is the world wide web. Dan makes a nice point also about communal, secular, group solidarity: perhaps that also is happening on the www.
Www as sacral and profund area? Is it really what satisfies you enough? I don't know whether to laugh or cry if it is really the only place left for human spirit...
***** Not the whole thing... just parts of it e.g. the wiki, and many other knowledge resources. Not to mention, yes, talking about things like philosophy and even, in this case, atheism.
Kon Berner it is all wonderful but modern society rather needs something like real temple, which combined sacred space, word, artistic experience and feeling of unity- i don't see any analogy with www which is a mixture of atomized content, the nobility, intelligence, entertainment, time consuming mockery and highest possible stupidity-not to mention anonymous nonreality, lack of responsibility, lack of real meetings etc... the library maybe would match this analogy better, but given that there were some kind of "masters", real teachers, who we need today more than ever
***** I really do hear you, but ultimately, I think this is a matter of taste. When I walked into that bookstore every week, it was a powerful spiritual experience for me... that is uplifting, inspiring, and having that sense of awe and wonder that is indeed so wonderful and kept me going through the week.
You may not believe I feel the same about e.g. wiki, but I really do. I totally agree with you that this will *not* work for everyone, but I'm that sort who finds well structured information to be... well, "holy" for lack of a better term.
All that said, if I had a center for Einsteinian "religion" down the street from me, you bet I'd pop in on occasion.
On Sundays I used to go to The Church of the CleveLand Browns until it got corrupted
34:00 ! A point that gets me thrown out of rooms! Thank you, Sam!
And fuck Christmas trees! Wasteful ass mfrs!
"Awareness is known by awareness alone," is the sole irreducible axiom of reality. To put forth a syllable to refute it is to concede..
Honesty plus intelligence equals life without parole. At best.
17:46 this is how I feel about minerology and geology in contrast with crystal healing. The former is so much deeper and interesting than the latter, yet something like 60% or more of rock shops cater to the nonsense of healing crystals for farsical energies and using them to somehow protect you from harmless cellphone radiowaves.
The latter does not require any true knowledge. The majority of people do not want to engage in anything which requires effort, rather they want simple things that create the impression of being enlightened (as well as other instant gratification), and so because more people will want these superstitious rocks, they will make more money, so the shops will sell them.
I’m a rockhound myself, I used to sell rocks, minerals and fossils on market stalls. It took all my reserve to control my verbal filter whilst new agers spent up to an hour concentrating with their palms suspended over a tray of crystals. 9 times out of 10 they were drawn to silica dioxide probably because it’s shiny. When asked the esoteric properties of each I handed them the “Crystal Bible” which I always kept on hand, let’s face it a sale is a sale.
@@dorothymelia2569
Oh man, I couldn't imagine being subjected to that for work.
But I too buy things because they are shiny.
Monkey like shiny.
And not to be pedantic but just in case you didn't know. The word 'silica' is already a reference to the oxide. It would be 'silica' or alternatively 'silicon dioxide'. It's the same convention as in 'alumina' ie corrundum.
The bits where they disagree with each other are the most interesting. 4 giants of reason!!
"That's why it's called faith" He says that, feels that way and says it so defensively because well actually its not faith it's FAMILY HERITAGE.
it's the same thing
Drives me absolutely insane that Dawkins has what looks to be a martini and never touches it!
Imagine if we could get these podcasts on a weekly basis....
''Bach was more important to God, than God was to Bach''-Emil Cioran.
Haha good old Hitchens. Essentially saying "I don't want a world without faith, i want people to argue with" lol
17:36 There you go Richard, tell him!
I was brought up a Christian, watched during my childhood how praying completely failed, and that the suffering that comes from growing up in an impoverished Scottish housing scheme can never be abated, and that the only real love and support came from my human family. Atheism was an easy choice to make at 14, and I'm lucky to come from a religious family that have respected my choice.
listening to these four is simply refreshing - a summers day!
I will have to watch this again.I had several wikipedia tabs open & read them while watching this.I never really absorbed what they said.
What makes life worthwhile is freedom of thought and freedom from state imposed religion.
One of my favorite talks on CZcams. 2020 and still makes me smile and enjoy watching it.
Imagine how amazing it would have been to sit at that table and just listen.
Love the fact that they are all just "chilling," drinking whiskey and chris smoking. So cosy..
There's also a martini glass in the mix. Probably the good stuff.
22:22 Made me crack up. Dennis's reaction to Hitchens was priceless.
Absolutely fascinating discussion, thank you for uploading.
The part at 57:33 terrifies me slightly; Hitchens was an incredible intellect, and while his views were sometimes pessimistic or even extreme, I am inclined to believe him slightly - at least in as much as he understood the issue a lot better than I do.
Food for thought.
What a beautiful and gentlemanly debate. This shows class in the discourse... Hats off...
I'm going to tell my kids these were the knights of the roundtable
You can sense Dawkins admiration for Hitchens in this recording
That's because Prof Richard Dawkins is a clever man .. :-)
@@BassGoBomb watch the devil and father amorth trailer.
@@lightbeing8174 Horrendous ... :-(
@@BassGoBomb well the devil and father amorth trailer might be horrendous but my profile picture is heavenly.