Antikythera Fragment #7 - Ancient Tool Technology - Precision Soft Soldering
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- čas přidán 15. 09. 2018
- Antikythera Fragment #7 - Ancient Tool Technology - Precision Soft #Soldering
Continuing on with the investigation of what it was like inside the #ancientworkshop here's a closer look at another of the demonstrated techniques: The precise joining of metal using #softsolder
If you would like to help support the creation of these videos, then head on over to the Clickspring Patreon page: / clickspring
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Tools & Shop Products:
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References:
De Archetectura by Marcus Vitruvius Pollio:
www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/t...
Credits:
Clips from "The 2000 Year Old Computer" courtesy Images First Ltd.
Antikythera Fragment #7 - Precision Soft Soldering, by Clickspring. - Zábava
My only complaint is a lack of a second like button so I can double like the video. Stunning and fascinating as usual!!
Agree - some videos are just so well made that you want to show more likeage than the standard “I watched this and liked it” option.
Yes, I need a fresh like button every time I watch something this good
@@johnross6436 - indeed. Sadly all I could do to show my appreciation to the algorithm was to like your comment and the one above.
Truly wonderful video! Thank you, Chris!
Thank you mate :)
Lol alec
This should fill everyone with a sense of awe. The craftsmanship is, as always, superb, but the technique, the process which it emulates is nothing short of miraculous.
@unknownguyX2 I don't know if it's always necessarily less skill, but rather less time. That said, it's hard to imagine being able to make a machine so intricate with such limited technology. It's truly remarkable that this device was indeed made with such precision.
"It takes a fair amount of work to keep the fire well tended and hot." And thus apprenticeships were born....
Thank you for another beautiful video. This is CZcams at it's best!
too right, it was not done by a lone master craftsman with an idea, there where apprentices for all the key parts, chemists, mathmaticians, blacksmiths, and many other supporting roles to make this piece of art. i think they had a few apprentices to fan the fire though.
What an amazing refreshing look at soldering.
Those joints look amazing, well done!
oem42 Probably after his new shop is finished? Priorities must be respected. ;-)
it really baffles me that this channel only has 370k subs, hands down some of the most interesting, and beautiful videos around. Giving you an excellent salary, a staff of editors, and assistants so that you could do this full time would be a service to humanity...and no that's not hyperbole.
I could watch Clickspring videos for hours and never get bored...wish he posted every day, but I understand why he can't. Production quality through the roof!
You out class TV channels and entire production companies. I hope CZcams is just your start, love your work.
Awesome - it's amazing to hear and see how they did this "back in the day"...
Thank you mate :)
What draws me to Clickspring is the combination of craftsmanship, high quality videography, and the history behind the processes you use. So much information, beautifully presented and executed. Thank you!
WELCOME BACK!
Typersx1 a
I thought he had died
I think so too!!
Nah, Chris never really went anywhere--all that hand-filing is just very time-consuming, I imagine.
This old Tony trapped him in ancient times. It took a while to fit together a new time machine using stone knives and bear claws.
The instant I got that notification I clicked. Best vids on youtube.
Aside from This Old Tony, in my opinion
Project Binky!
Oh shit. Bad Obsession Motorsports and This Old Tony are tied for #1 for me
There are several components in the mechanism that were carefully soldered into position - here's my take on how it may have been done - please enjoy :)
Loved the use of the copper! That red is so nice. One question that came to mind is why not hold the whole thing above the fire on a rack/bricks/etc and solder it that way?
Mathieu MacAdam That might work for the first join, but as soon as you try to get another part soldered on, it would break the first one.
Yep that's it exactly ccrraazzyyman - multiple loose parts on both sides of the plate were soldered, so it needed to be a method that could very precisely target the heat with both hot elements and heat sinks - Cheers :)
@@ccrraazzyyman - Ahh I missed that detail!! Thanks to both of you :)
amazing ... i actually enjoy watching your videos they are both entertaining and educational .as some one who likes jewelry and watches i only was able to teach my self lapidary and jewelry making thanks to you i have learned more about watchmaking and more importantly thee tools they used in the past how they made them... i would like to thank you for your videos and the effort keep up the good work and let us learn more :)
There was a Lecturer at Sydney Uni who had a talk/paper about the Antikythera machine and it seemed they were teaching a course about it.
I put them onto your videos. I hope they've been in touch to give your personal insights into the machine in the class because you obviously have taken an intimate interest in the machine and recreated what it would have taken to make the machine back in the day. A supreme source of knowledge for the students I expect.
What strikes me, apart from the thoroughly researched historical and technical knowledge you show here, is the sheer beauty, excellently produced and edited movies you're presenting here. I just look at your channel every odd week or so, without any chronology, just because they are so beautiful to watch. By far one of the best channels on youtube. Respect.
Thank you mate, I very much appreciate you watching :)
There are so many great machining videos out there. The level you take your videos to is almost difficult to believe. The overall presentation is so extremely pleasing and hypnotic in a way. Please don't ever stop making videos. You have encouraged me to work toward a skill set allowing me to work in brass as you do.
Simply Beautiful... I can't speak high enough of the quality our your videos... Just gorgeous...
A question: It looked like the spacing of the parts you were joining were eyeballed. How much space did you allow yourself for slop on those positions, or were they precisely placed off-camera?
Yes mostly by eye, a few mm either side doesn't affect the performance of most of the parts, but the support block for the H/I assembles is an exception - it requires very accurate placement so I used a couple of locating pins inserted into the drilled holes from below the main plate to guarantee location (visible from above the block at 1m 12s) - Great to have you watching mate :)
@@Clickspring 1:12
The ignorance of people thinking our ancestors back in the days of old had no knowledge and skills regarding their tools and work processes truly is one of the travesties of modern thinking. If anything, demonstrations such as this clearly show us that they not only had to work harder and arguably more precisely than any of us could manage without the handicap of modern equipment that allows less skilled individuals to achieve similar results, but also had a much closer relationship with their works than we do. This demo was enlightening and quite awe inspiring, realizing what the ancients achieved with what they had at hand.
It never ceases to amaze me with the inventiveness and creativity of ancient craftsmen. Sometimes when I see old mechanisms, I'm amazed how they work. Then I see the techniques used to create them and the finished product isn't as fascinating as the techniques used to create it. Your Antikythera device boggles my mind and I can't wait to see it working, but it is fascinating to see you employing ancient materials and techniques to create it.
completely exhausted from a 12 hour shift and its 1am but theres no way i can resist a new Clickspring video
What a fascinating piece of practical and experimental archaeology. The lengths you go to in this series to show how these tasks may have been achieved in ancient times is astounding. This video series on completion will be the modern day equivalent to the importance of finding of the Rosetta stone. There will be people living on Clickspring street some day and having a drink and a meal at the Clickspring Bar.
Just wish you could release videos daily. I can't get enough of them.
Me too - crazy time consuming to make - Cheers :)
I have a confession - Clickspring inspires me a lot. I've always wondered what the enormous Lathe machines do whenever I saw them in our labs at school, we never used them. I got to know on youtube and my life has never been the same. Now all I want to do is to build things like you
I always learn something new and exciting from you Chris! Amazing work and video skills!
Thank you so much mate :)
Another fantastic video with great research and demonstration of ideas. Truly remarkable stuff.
Thank you mate - absolutely love your work.
Not only recreating the antikythera mechanism, but constructing it with period methods.. I am impressed!
I am envious of people in the future who will be able to binge watch this entire series without having to wait between episodes. I love the building process but can't wait to see it working at the end.
This realy demonstrate why new inventions or techniques are not made faster in ancient time, its need a plethora of suporting inventions and techniques to make the new inventions or technique practically possible. My respect to the orginal inventors/clockmakers.....and the youtube host personal skill and patience.
JR You can still see what you’re talking about on an accelerated scale today.
Ever since we’ve had electronic devices we’ve been miniaturizing them, but why did it take decades to go from a desktop to a laptop?
The miniaturization of the computing hardware was simple, but it wasn’t terribly feasible until both higher capacity batteries, and smaller screens were perfected.
Then there was a similar situation with cellphone technology, why did it take so long to get smartphones, or anything like them when we already had both portable computing and cellular service?
Because until there was a massive network, and improved data transmission protocols in place, even if they built them there wouldn’t be much you could do on one. Not to mention the need for massive further miniaturization of the computing hardware, screens, input devices, and the advent of high energy density batteries.
laptops were made as soon as the chips and storage would fit into something portable, people made do with little tube monitors before thin screen technology was on hand, and battery technology isn't nearly as helpful as you might think, as soon as the tech improves, the improvement is used to make the device thinner, insted of giving it more battery life, or additional computing power, or both.
Simple, the agracultural revolution was not yet at hand, and the printing press was not yet a thing, most people needed to dedicate most of their time to farming, and resource aquisition, the tinkerers had no way to spread their knowledge quickly, since everything had to be copied by hand, if they were even willing to relinquish their secrets to begin with. You will note that the industrial revolution didn't happen until after the ag revolution, and the printing press.
Lovot Core I’m not sure exactly what you base that statement on.
A lot of old laptops has single digit battery life as they were still using stuff like Ni-Cad etc.
NiCd is no excuse, stick more of them in there until the battery life is acceptable
Beautiful. As someone who is actively in the tool and die world ,it is wonderful to have a connection with our ancient journeymen, even across thousands of years.
you have no idea how happy i am to see a new video from you!
I am so glad you are showing how the work was done by skilled craftsmen and not some aliens from Ork .
Props for showing an image of *cello* rosin
In my opinion, you have the most well produced videos on CZcams. I understand this work takes lots of time and effort but please don't torture us for 3 months again 😂. Glad to see you back.
even your soldering irons are breathtaking.
Every one of your videos fill me with wonder and amazement. Thank you.
I know it takes tremendous amount of work to make this kind of content, but in last 2 years it has come to soo little content. I still love every bit of it but for last two years there is a video in two months. A year before that there was a video every 2 weeks. That is 6 videos instead of 24 per year. I was a Patreon then, but now with more Patreons it feels like more time could be invested in the project. Videos are such a masterpiece that I could watch every screw and pin being made. Now it feels like a lot of content is left out or there could be more videos of same project steps.
To sum up I want to say that we are spoiled and want to see more and more from a creator and a lot of us would love to see more and more from you instead of other channels :) Thank you for everything!
I really need more videos man.
Ha ha! Thank you mate - Should be another one out in about a week :)
@@Clickspring thank God! I am suffering from serious clickspring withdrawals.
So much information was lost in the bronze periods 3-4 dark ages glad to see someone finally taking an interest in trying to restore some of that lost knowledge. Most shops teach orally via apprenticeships so many of the old tools and techniques got passed down without any written word to go with them.
I also think Iron was used prolifically in the bronze age but due to the decomposition rates of irons things older than 800 years rarely survive unless maintained or sealed off from the air. Some rare examples like Tuts dagger behave almost like a stainless steel and Iron would have been easier to make than bronze which relied on the silk road for most tin production and the island of Cyprus for most copper. Iron on the other hand was likely an accidental bi-product of heating limestone rocks to make cement and might have even formed trying to process other ores but without more documentation from the Era we only have scraps of information to base hypothesis on.
I like the fancy packaging the rosin comes in. Gives it a nice touch. :)
Thanks Chris. Been here since the beginning of the clock and love seeing new videos. Cheers!
Thank you mate, very much appreciate that :)
Back from another time traveling journey with This Old Tony? I am sure one of you is the Doctor.
Looks like a week of work to solder a few pieces! Chris is the most patient and meticulous man on earth!
Whoa! Impressive!! This must've been quite the challenge!
I can’t believe the moment has finally come.
Your work is admirable as always. We work with an electronically heated iron, & mail ordered flux and solder every day, and your attention to the time period’s details make this video fantastic. Great work.
I have done lots of silver soldering. Not much brass. This helps a bunch. I have a half barrel of scrap copper. These will be great base heaters. I really want to try rosin flux. Totally enjoy these presentations. Tool making is what being a complete metal smith is all about.
You haven’t used rosin? It’s the most popular flux and it’s cheap
If you watch very carefully at 2:58 you can see the metal expand between the two cuts, really cool
I have to say you get an A plus for this video. Very well done and explained also. VF
I am sure someone else has pointed this out, but I will also.
The large rectangular blocks would transfer heat more effectively if they were to be made flat again, after you work them with the hammer the surface has many ridges and valleys in it. This would apply to any tool that would be used to solder.
Most heat transfering via IR so not a big deal. Also if talking about heat transfer via surface contact: copper block covered with copper oxide layer(you cant avoid it at red hot temperature) and copper oxide have bad thermal conductivity, so again you mostly relying on heating via IR.
I was pointing out the loss of contact area that can be seen when the blocks are placed on the brass plate. Not the oxide/scale. The gaps are obvious, the heat loss there could be lessened by making the blocks FLAT, by surface grinding/flattening, with a file, since 2000 years ago the milling machine did not exist.
@D Sloop: I really doubt it matters at the heat and large masses of metal he's dealing with. Yeah, you get better thermal contact with a flat surface, but that just slows heat transfer. Some extra heat will be lost to radiation or convection from the block during the extra time, but not THAT much.
Yes, but everything he has fabricated so far has been the very definition of precise. I know the heat transfer worked, I saw it.
When I would build a PC I used the thermal paste to insure that heat from the cpu transferred to the aluminum heat sink most efficiently. The very small imperfections on the top of the cpu and the bottom of the heat sink would not allow the best transfer of heat without the paste.
Different situation but same principle. Better fit = better results.
They'd wick up the flux and solder easier too! To me, it looks like they're heating by radiation anyway.
I was just wondering when the next Clickspring video would post. As always Chris, you delivered. I wouldn't have believed this this technique if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes. Thank you for sharing!
every time i watch one of these it blows my mind to think that someone was doing this 23 centuries ago. I also appreciate the time you spend to get your camera setups so clean and precise. soft-box lighting a coal forge can't be easy.
Thank you mate, appreciate you noticing :)
My God. I lose track of this channel for a while and I come back to you using heated blocks of copper, traditional rosin and lead to solder like they did in antiquity. Amazing.
As someone who soldered (professionally) for over 20 years, I can honestly say that this method never occurred to me. Always love your videos, and hope there are a lot more to come! :)
On a side note, given the labor intensive nature of doing this, do you think it was easier than pinning the pieces, or was there a mechanical/manufacturing reason to do it this way? Just curious, since you have the experience of attaching pieces both ways...
personally I think its much easier to pin them, so the choice to solder is interesting - Cheers :)
They might have put the whole thing up above a fire (suspended above a fire), to get it hot but not too hot (just to stop it from sinking too much heat), and then stared heating the pieces they were going to attach more (with copper tools). They could have put all the pieces on really quickly, since they weren't structural.
Clickspring, Wow, that was a quick response! I suspected pinning would be easier back then, but your videos make it all look easy - the mixed blessing of being a master! Keep up the excellent work! :)
I'm thinking maybe it has to do with future mobility? Or removal. A little heat and it can be moved this way or that Just a little bit quite quickly.. Or disassembly?
Ran out of pins?
Damn! i forgot about your channel! :O Glad you are still making videos! :D
Chris, you truly have the patience of a saint, and nothing less.
So happy to see another video. It's been quite a while since the last one.
As always your video was eagerly awaited and as always it hasn’t disappointed. I like looking at the skills involved and the accompanying history lesson when I’m sure that your methods may not be exact but so very very close. As a mark of your skills you are being mentioned by more and more CZcams contributors. Regards.
"Oh crap!... hang on..." - 99% of human discoveries
I heard once that a great many of humanity's most amazing discoveries started out by a scientist saying, "Huh, that's weird."
Too bad that such methods aren't taught anymore. It expands the horizon of a craftsperson so much and may inspire a lot of people to not just solve problems by buying new machines, but to figure out simple solutions with already available materials in the shop. I would give this a lot more than just one like, if i could.
If there is a better, more professionally produced creator video series, I'm unaware of it.
Yours is the most knowledgeable, informative and entertaining channel...honest.
Thank you
Thank you mate, terrific to have you watching :)
STOP EVERYTHING!!!! It's time for clickspring. *Watches intently* Today is gonna be a good day.
I am sexually attracted to clickspring videos. Please don't judge me.
Put that thing away before CZcams demonitize it :-P
Only Judy can judge me
You're not alone...
Same. Let's stand together, side by side with our shoulders touching and watch...hands down our pants...
NO EYE CONTACT!
That is only a plus in my book:)
Thanks bud. Always a pleasure.
Genius as always. Love the idea of craftspeople passing down tangible history through mechanical devices.
And here I am sometimes fighting simple copper pipe fittings to solder together proper.
Throw a block of copper on the barbie!
That’s impressive. I think my favorite part of these videos is the ancient tech you don’t just explain, but go on and use. Good on you
Four years later, I've watched this video about 40 times. Every time I come back to it - or share it with a friend and watch with them - I see the things I've learned about soldering, welding, brazing, and metalworking in the time between reflected here, waiting for me to be wise or experienced enough to see them. This remains a masterpiece of a video.
That feeling, when a guy with ancient tools and methods achieves ten times nicer and probably twenty times stronger joint than you do while using modern soldering equipment.
Yep, I feel like an absolute failure right now. Great video tho.
Yess
Your videos are my favourite thing on CZcams and always bring joy and fascination to my day :) thank you so much for all your work!
Cheers Joseph :)
im amazed on how easy you made this look
Didn’t even watch. Here’s your like and thumbs way up!
Thank you!
I thought this channel was dead, nice to see you back.
He posts content consistently on his pateron. There Chris is working on a sundial project along this one with progress pictures and instant replies to questions. It's really worth the $3.00+ a month.
Bloody amazing. Had no idea soldering was a thing in times before electric soldering irons.
Your videos are better than most shows on television! Keep up the great work!
Notification squad !
Would you ever consider a face reveal?? As you are a master in which we as your community would most likely love to see the man, the myth, the LEGEND.
Fantastic.....well everything. I could go on forever, but this video was faultless.
Its great to get a better understanding of what was done in ancient times. Thank you.
People back then were more advanced than most people now lol
Not really the people who were the absolute best in the entire world were probably a bit more smart than a Layman today but not nearly as knowledgeable as a regular expert today
Keep in mind this is back when only the royalty got to learn how to read and write, having an education equivalent to one you get in an elementary school today would give you knowledge they wouldn't be able to dream of.
like 50 years ago we launched a rocket to the moon and back with math that we did on paper. Like the whole reason these devices are impressive is because they resemble something we could make today
I wonder how the ancients discovered the concept of flux
Spilt something, and noticed some things allow metals to bond... then trial and error using EVERYTHING you can find? :D
and ky jelly?
resin melts with heat and is sticky. wild guess: they used resin as a preliminary glue to hold the part in place before soldering. Note that there are some tricks to solder with out or with less flux. We saw here a charcoal fire - let that burn with reduced oxygen and you get a O2 free, but CO containing atmosphere that can act as an reducing agent.
I'm thinking something to do with cooking. People eat a lot of different things and most of it needs to be cooked. Probably somebody noticed something while they were cooking. The mind is a terrible thing. LOL I've put together so many things while I was sleeping that I could not do awake. I used to fix copiers. And there are many times I woke up in the middle of the night realizing what the problem was. AH ha moments Can come at the damnedest times.
People heat up rosin to hold small parts while shaping them. So it was probably sitting around nearby in a bunch of workshops. Maybe someone dripped solder on a piece stuck in rosin.
You are a giant, a monster. All hail Clickspring.
These videos never seize to amaze
WUT, a clickspring video?! What luck!
An alternative. Grind the solder with the rosin to make a paste. Position everything. The instead of moving the device move the heat source underneath. That means its unlikely that any component moves. No need to make tools. When the solder flows, remove the heat source and wait.
I was thinking something similar. How about adhering the piece with rosin, then simply laying thin strips of solder wire around the edges, making sure they're touching the sides of the piece. Then, just apply heat and it will sweat itself in as soon as it's molten.
The could make a paste. Enameling goes back to 13th century BC. Lots of experience with gold working too. Just grind it all up, make a paste and apply on.
True - historically, that is the basis of enameling, and tried-and-true techniques are certainly the more likely. I was just suggesting another possibility that would work and makes it less likely for the parts to move. Every time Chris put a piece of hot copper on the part, I held my breath and hoped he wouldn't cough or sneeze while the rosin was soft.
Agreed.
So the idea of bringing the heat to the plate, by placing a fire underneath and not touching the plate at all strikes me as a better solution.
Relying on capillary action I suspect would work.
PS: Looks like Chris has partially answered us in another thread - "...multiple loose parts on both sides of the plate were soldered, so it needed to be a method that could very precisely target the heat with both hot elements and heat sinks..." So that drops our heating from below idea on its head, as it's hard to be precise enough coming at it from underneath - but I still think you may be on the right track with the "rosin/solder paste" idea. Applying the heat as Chris did would still work, and there's less chance of anything moving if he doesn't have to work around the copper heating blocks and dip the solder rod around the part.
Absolutely superb demonstration!
Without a doubt one of the best video production channel on CZcams.
Whoa! I thought this channel was dead. Glad that its not.
I would have guessed they would use an oven and a paste made of lead and rosin... ironically the most advaced soldering in common industry today! ahhahahahhaha
Astonishing authenticity. Thanks!
Welcome back. Awesome dedication to the craft
Glad to be a patron, so I'm watching part 8, while everyone else is watching part 7. :D
I unsubscribed to this channel because you said that. Thanks for the warning.
So you're waiting for part 9 as we are waiting for part 8 and you have essentially gained nothing except a feeling of superiority over us? Tells us a lot about your character but doesn't really speak all that much for becoming a patron.
@Barsabus Why would you unsubscribe?
Wow, so much butthurt.
They're entitled losers. They think that everything should come for free.
His passion and production value are astonishing
Always a pleasure to see a new video posted from Clickspring!
I've gotten so hyped by the intro that I tried to fullscreen the already fullscreen video! I guess, to cover the wall of my room!
Magnificent work as always!
Thank you for this excellent exploration of ancient soldering. It drastically improved my understanding of soldering in general.
I seriously love your videos. Your attention to detail and tradition is impeccable.
Good to have you back. Old technology is facinating
one of very few youtubers that doesn't CLICKbait you into watching vids that are some of the best on here! you never cease to impress! i like the use of the copper blocks as location specific heating, that's the kind of thing that you could even do with a rock and some sticks if you really had to solder something out in the bush and didn't have anything else... not that i know what one would have to solder like that but hey! you never know this day in age! the sheer amount of rudimentary tidbits of techniques is what has brought life as far as it did!