Dungeons & Dragons: Honor Among Thieves In-Depth Film Review
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- čas přidán 2. 08. 2024
- MONSTERS OF DRAKKENHEIM is 300+ pages of eldritch horror inspired monsters for 5e by the Dungeon Dudes! Coming to Kickstarter March 26th, 2024: www.kickstarter.com/projects/... We discuss the Dungeons and dragons movie in depth!
This episode is sponsored by Beadle & Grimm's: Game Master's Journal. check it out here - beadleandgrimms.com/dungeondudes
We start with a spoiler free review, and then do a deep dive discussing what we liked and didn't like about the movie overall. SPOILERS BEGIN AT 8:36
TIME STAMPS
0:00 - Sponsor
1:19 - Intro
2:43 - Spoiler Free Review
8:36 - Spoiler Deep Dive
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I think the platonic friendship between Holga and Edgin was really cool, strongly disagree that making them family would have been better. How refreshing to have man and woman best friends with no romantic tension. Also, almost no mention of all the great practical effects
Absolutely agree; you don’t need romance to create strong bonds between two people and you don’t need blood ties to become a convincing adoptive mother. I very much liked this take! Especially when early in the movie someone at the bar asks Ed if he wants something to eat for him “and his wife” and they both go ‘what? With him/her? Gross! No, god no!’.
@@toplectures Yes, I really didn't understand that obsession he seemed to have with needing her to be related to someone instead of found family. Found family is such a big thing in movies for a long time now, why does he seem confused by it?
Absolutely agree
@@heatherdavenport4639 Found family is also a key group dynamic in D&D, so it works perfectly in the movie.
@@heatherdavenport4639 In fact it is the foundation that makes Guardians great that he keeps referencing as one of his favorites so really strange he misses that point in this movie.
Holga literally meet Edgin in a tavern tho and they became friends, bonding over the care of Edgins daughter, they showed that to us clearly. I also think its important that Holga is not Edgins biologial family, she is a platonic friend of the opposite gender without any romance or blood, its just pure friendship, but she is still just as much of a mother to the daughter.
One of my favorite things in the movie is that Holga became Kira's mother figure without being romantically involved with Edgin.
Yeah Holga's connection was well established, but I'm not gonna nitpick a review from dudes who only watched the movie once. I'm sure I missed some stuff too.
Exactly. A familial connection actually makes this relationship weaker. That she was basically a random person he met in a tavern and structures a lifelong friendship is pretty awesome. The character building within that family unit was the heart of the movie.
Praise. I love the dudes. But they got this so wrong. FAMILY ISN’T ALWAYS BIOLOGICAL. This was a beautiful story of friendship as family.
Yeah, it felt to me the connection between Holga, Edgin and Simon was established with the exposition dump. They were a crew. And I believe Forge was part of the crew for a while. Sure, they could have added a line saying how long they were a crew, but it was implied how long Holga and Edgin were "together", given how Kira grew. So connection between the 4 was explained well enough. To me at least. Maybe the Dudes were distracted by all the shinies :)
I liked when Holga suggested to tie the rope on the axe and throw it. That’s a dialogue that comes directly from most tables.
Also plays into her low intelligence a bit by her making illogical decisions, so there was an element of roleplay in that scene.
Oh yeah and it fails... every. Single. Fucking. Time.
yeah- that was great. I was sitting next to a player at my table and I'm looking at him the whole scene.
Yeah, discussing how to cross the chasm would have taken hour in a real game.
100% I immediately thought of all those players’ ideas to cross a chasm
Favorite Easter Egg: Bag of Holding
I like how though you can see it, they never say that Simon has a bag of holding. Instead, Edgin is just always telling him to "Hold this". Awesome Easter egg!
I kept noticing that without understanding it. Duh. Great observation!
YES! I said the same to my boyfriend when we watched it; because you never see Simon actually carrying a lot of stuff, the things that he gets handed always just ‘disappears’ as he puts it away
I thought I saw the lute and some other stuff get pulled out of a small bag a few times
Crap, how did I miss that? I was just overjoyed to see rust monsters!
If we ever get another dnd movie I would love to see a bag of holding sequence. Because we'll all know players just love going in them and what not
Considering these half-baked plots we’ve been getting lately I was really happy that we got a coherent story and characters with overall positive messages throughout
Definitely. The characters were actually likeable, which was a refreshing change from most modern cinema.
I liked that the DMpc's quest was to make the party believe in themselves and be better people and he succeeded, the ultimate and most handsome redemption paladin
Definitely agree (looking at you Rings of Power)
Either way it was still a fun movie worth the watch
Exactly! You don't need a super complex Christopher Nolan-style plot. The setup was very straightforward, the complexity came from failed plans and unexpected coincidences along the way. Like a heist movie should be.
As far as Edgin not being a spellcaster, it seemed to me like all of his 'spells' were just reflavored as natural charisma; suggestion, charm person, calm emotions, and bardic inspiration all played more understated than Simon's more fantastical magic.
This! I don't think his stat block has any offensive spells either just ones of that nature id assume he's just a college of swords
As presented in the film he was a Masermind Rogue. But his official stat block makes him a Bard.
@@bradwillis7415 maybe he's multi class? Simon also seems like he took a cleric dip
That’s what I came away thinking too-not spellcasting per se, but getting similar effects. Seems like the kind of person who would constantly get himself into trouble trying to use Friends.
@@BlazingLion2010 Like 1 class Cleric dip? For sure.
Regarding Holga's death/return...
I'm a tank in my heart of hearts (even when I shouldn't be, its a personal flaw). I've died in game, standing between the danger and the egg heads. A lot.
When she was dying and comforting THEM. Expressing pride that she did her "job"... I felt "seen".
If I feel seen I have usually failed a sneak roll.
The exposition dump at the beginning also served to give an insight into Edgin's personality, with how he began the story. Also, "Jarnathon" was totally a DM who was put on the spot when a player asked for an unimportant NPC's name.
I thought maybe it was a reference to nightjars. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nightjar
@@SparkTiger could be! I love that it works both ways
The "exposition dump" didn't bother me at all, and that kind of surprised me when I thought about it later. I think it worked because it was both a narrative device for the audience, as well as a stalling tactic for the characters to achieve their goal in the moment.
Every campaign starts with everyone doing exposition dumps, so I thought it was an interesting nod to that.
Exposition dumps are often the worst part of any movie. In this movie it was my favourite scene. The way he kept referencing back to Jarnathon during his exposition was hilarious. I loved it.
Holga had most definitely taken the tavern brawler feat. She could use basically anything as a weapon.
Dude I said exactly the same thing as soon as she started beating ass in that alley
My first thoughts ran to monk until she grabbed that axe, and then I thought "oh never mind" :P
i thought she was a path of the old gods barbarian
Dnd beyond released official character sheets for the character
@@MrHarshverdhan NPC stat blocks specifically not Player Characters
Re: the Holga timeline. Edgin states that Holga was also at rock bottom. They met at a bar because she was looking to get drunk. She left her tribe to be with Merriman. While living with Merriman, she would get drunk and stay out til all hours. (See their conversation) She met Edgin and they decided to start robbing people. While doing that she helped raise Kira. Meanwhile poor Merriman is sitting at home worried about his lover. She obviously visited him frequently because she gave him a walking stick and they used to ramble. But then she'd leave again. Finally when she was sent to prison, he broke up/divorced? her. So, in essence, being there for Edgin and Kira cost Holga her man. It's an interesting twist, the man staying home and waiting for his woman to come home to him.
Good point on the twist.
I thought Holga and Merriman had broken up first, and Holga had moved to town because her tribe had disowned her for being with him. Edgin was at the bar getting drunk because he was sad at his wife’s death. Holga walked in just to have some drinks, saw the drunk dude with a baby, and her mama instinct kicked in.
@@TechnoLawyer It IS a little unclear, but there's throwaways about Edgin and Simon both having at least met Marliman. And Marliman talks about Holga not making her living honestly and her getting the divorce letter while they're in prison. So, as far as I can figure, they were officially still together while the original thieving group was active. Meaning she spent all that time raising Kira, robbing folks, and cavorting with Ed instead of being at home with her husband.
@@the_corsair Makes sense I guess. Thanks for providing that extra bit of explanation.
Helga literally just randomly meets Edgin in a tavern and was charmed by his daughter. They did explain that and it's the thing that you said you wished happened.
Thank you! She literally took pity on the child and made her own tribe to replace the one that cast her out. That's a very strong bond.
Exactly!
Yes it was there. Same with her being stabbed. If you watch close enough, you can see her get stabbed.
Holga was the foster parent who ended up being the parent; Kira already knew it, it just took Edgin a while to figure it out. 🙂
Well, I guess that's what happens when the critic only sees the movie once.
I think the paladin was less player who couldn't show up but DMPC that the DM realized was problematic. Here he is Mr Perfect can do anything better than anyone. Comes in, gives them the quest, drops a bunch of lore on them, and the DM has him not able to go with them because... reasons.
I loved how Edgin tells the paladin he's better than the rest of the party at absolutely everything (can't recall if he uses the term "over powered"), "Except talking...talking to you is not fun." 😅
I saw a theory somewhere (Can't remember where) that the Paladin was a straight up NPC and they played with that. No sense of humor, laser focused to the mission, always walks in straight lines, etc. I kinda like that theory
Thank you. Yes me and my DM went to an early screening together and we figured the Paladin was more DMPC. Came in, helped get to the McGuffin and left once the story beat was done.
The way he walked right over a rock was also very DMPC
I agree that he was the DMs favorite NPC, but I also joke that he was the "I thought we were playing 3.5" player
That's how I gathered it too. There have been times when I'm using a DMPC with the party, and the party encounters a puzzle/trap/situation whatever, and they ask the DMPC for help. I always just sigh and jokingly say something along the lines of "do you just want me to play the game for you?", and it reminded me of when Edgin is saying "you do everything so much better than us"
One little thing I liked, though it only showed it once, was in the final fight scene. The wizard is clearly concentrating on a spell, which ends after she takes a hit.
Yeah, Doric hits her with her sling.
Was shown in the introduction of Simon too. In the fight in the Theater on man interrupts Simons Spell by closing his mouth.
@@steveaustin2686 She shoots her, specifically, with garlic. I wonder if that was a hat-tip to the spell Halt Undead?
@@unimpartialobserver Might be, although Halt Undead is a 3.5e Sor/Wiz spell. On the other hand, it's not like they were rules lawyers either. 😎
As for "Holga's rage" it was the Potatoes. It was established quickly that she gets angry when her eating potatoes gets interrupted. So it was a visual cue/gag that shows up before she gives epic throwdowns
DnD potatoes = Godfather Oranges
😂😂😂 potato barbarian that's gold
I think my favourite moment was something fairly subtle. When the Paladin gets into a duel with the top henchman, they choreography is very fast (and possibly sped up) and it made me go, "oh these are higher level characters because they must have 'Extra Attack' to be fighting this quickly".
The paladin was clearly the overpowered DM NPC who was there to set the party on the right path, then leave so he didn't overshadow the PC's too much. I admit I was expecting him to show up again during the climatic battle.
The Holga/Edgin connection:
Holga was broken after her split with Bradley Cooper’s character. She got kicked out of her tribe for him, and after him she was completely alone. Then in a tavern she runs into Edgin, a newly single father struggling with raising his child and she steps in and helps him, becoming a new family. They helped fill the holes in each other’s hearts and did it platonically which I loved
Well said. It was a found family and I thought a good choice for it to be platonic.
I feel like they spent so much time critiquing they clearly missed the plot connections they were confused about. All have clear and strong motivations, and Holga's timeline makes total sense. It's like they missed the whole exposition sequence where Holga clearly developed a massive bond with Kira. She was even the one that got her the amulet. Heck, Ed even had a flashback about it all lol. The whole first chunk of the movie is about their connection.
I think he's referring to Holga's relationship with that halfling/nomb dude (the bradley cooper guy) and how that lined us with her being a surrogate mother. Bradley cooper says he's been with his new lady for just over a year. (implying that thtey split up basically just before they went into prison..), so where does that fit in that she's been looking after this kid for the last 6 years?
@@danzai They were in prison 2 years. Prior to that she'd been running heists with Edgin and sort of became Kira's surrogate mother along the course of it. Because of her tendency to be away for long periods or just take off to go drinking, their relationship was already pretty rocky. When she got sent to prison, that was the last straw for Marlamin. So sometime around the end of that first year of imprisonment he nullified their marriage, and met his new lady.
It’s a bit weird that you didn’t talk at all about the theme of “found family”, to me it was pretty prominent, especially at the end when Edgin says that he is with his people.. everyone in the group was failed by their families and found a new family in the party.. and it’s like that irl too, a lot of friends group are like new families we choose for ourselves.
Btw I really enjoyed the movie, it’s so much fun!
Hugh Grant was gold in this movie. Chris Pine was also excellent. Great movie for casual viewers as well as fans of D&D.
I was under the impression that Ed, Holga, Simon, and Forge were a party prior to working with Sofina. That's the connection I thought that they had.
Yeah. Ed states that Forge brought Sofina in, telling them she had hired them for a job.
5/10
Yeah they outright show that
They were. In the prequel novel, they do several jobs prior to meeting Sofina, with whom Forge has a prior association:
Kinda Spoiler Warning I guess:
Fun Fact about Dorics abilities:
WotC published NPC statblocks for the main characters of the film via D&D Beyond a few weeks ago. In Dorics statblock she has an ability called "Change Shape" which basically functions like Wild Shape with the exception that she can use this ability not only to change into beasts but also into an owlbear. She can use this ability five times per long rest as a bonus action.
Adding this to the two Wild Shapes she has as a druid would explain the seven beasts that were part of the chase sequence
Even as an action it still fits
My favorite part of the Druid chase scene was how perfectly it encapsulates what happens when a great PC plan utterly COLLAPSES when the dice don’t go their way. We’ve all been there and it was percect
One thing you didn't mention Kelly about the alleyway escape scene and that didn't even occur to me until now is the whole time Edgin is trying to break out of the rope, his couple of comments "we got them now!" and so on were clearly Bardic Inspiration to keep the Barbarian in top form.
Yeah, he so rolls a Nat 1 to get out of the bonds.
This, they mention that he doesn't cast a spell the entire story so how could he be a Bard? The answer is simple - the core defining feature of Bard is Bardic Inspiration, not spellcasting and that's what they chose to focus on to make Edgin stand out and he does it phenomenally.
@@steveaustin2686 Nah, he used his Actions giving Inspiration, meaning he wasn't able to focus on getting free. Not a bad roll, just simple action economy. 😅
@@the_corsair Edwin was definitely giving out inspiration to Holga, just after he rolled the Nat 1 on the escape his bonds attempt. That combat lasted a few rounds.
One thing I haven’t heard anyone else comment on is the way in which the arena ends up feeling like the miniatures on the grid in the center of the table. Whenever it cuts to scenes of the aristocrats betting on the games, I couldn’t help but see that. Maybe I’m seeing something that isn’t there, but i couldn’t see it any other way. Especially when the the gelatinous cube came in fitting perfectly within a square. I knew instantly that every block was exactly ten feet by ten feet.
The paladin, for me, was more of one of your DM's favorite characters that always make a cameo in their campaigns. I've seen it a ton of times on my games.
Totally an NPC the DM puts in as a plot device and a way for the party to get something that they clearly aren't able to do on their own. Indeed, that gag when he leaves, walking completely straight, including right over the rock, seems to seems to be a laugh at the expense of video game NPCs that have really strange AI behavior. And, of course, the paladin spoke in royally accented NPC speech like all of the other background characters, while the core party were the only ones that spoke in natural vernacular with Americanized accents... because there are usually much higher expectations for the DM to do NPC voices then for the players to voice act.
There are times where I seen former DM PC characters cameo in games. At times I seen it handled seamlessly where players didn't realize it was a previous PC, I seen where the players realized this but shrugged because it still worked, I seen it where the character was a cameo from a previous campaign. Sadly I also seen it not go well with DMPCs taking the spotlight from the party or said characters overstaying their welcome. I can think of one time in particular where we had a previous DM PC appear and the first appearance or two was fine as an easter egg. But the DM kept bringing the character back even when it became very clear that we were getting annoyed with a character. One PC even kicked them off the wagon when we were traveling through town and made no effort to retrieve them because they got sick of dealing with them.
@@si1verg3cko I had a DM who would always have his old PC, Ima Fiercefighter show up for a cameo. Sometimes the gully dwarf would be a merchant, sometimes he would be a mercenary and help us fight, once I think Jason forgot about the running cameo gag and suddenly one of the thieves being executed was a gully dwarf just so he had a cameo. The appearances were always just fleeting and we started looking for Ima, like Cid in a Final Fantasy game. Great bit, made epic because we loved it too. It took SEVERAL cameos before someone finally asked his surname, you could tell my DM had been dying to drop that one for a while.
Edgin says during his backstory that after meeting Holga in the tavern, she become like brother and sister. So it was an adoptive sibling situation there.
Fully agree with Monty’s final comments on it capturing the spirit of D&D. I feel like historically there’s been a trope in media of overly self-serious D&D players speaking exclusively in Shakespearean English and dramatically describing their epic heroics. I’m sure there’s a table somewhere that fits that perfectly (and more power to them), but every game I’ve played in has been lots of jokes and hijinks with the occasional emotional character moment or sobering reminder that we’re trying to save the world. This movie felt like the latter, and I loved it.
Regarding edgin not casting spells: the directors intentionally made it that way as they didn't want too many people casting spells.
Classic campaign start. Edgin and Holga met at a bar.
It would have felt weird to me narratively if he had been casting spells as well. It was a good depiction of a d&d party, but it didn’t need to be a one-for-one recreation. It’s a good example of creative license.
I'll probably still see him as a rogue... I mean, some bard subclasses are probably indistinguishable from some rogue subclasses in-universe (like sword bards and swashbucklers), and he wasn't called bard in the film (I mean, he wasn't in translation to my first language; I didn't have a chance to watch in English yet), so I don't think it's somehow a problem.
I will die on this hill: Edgin was not a bard. He was a mastermind rogue with a lute.
Well for cryin' out loud.... YES, there had to be a Rogue in a movie with "Theives" in the title!
I suspect the Sorcerer was multi-class too, he really wasn't good enough at anything to be a anything else.
@@Ladyrosieparks It's lonely at the top.
Very fun movie. I hope it makes enough to get us a sequel. There's no limit to where they could take this story.
Sequel not so sure... I would prefer a new cast... while I loved the characters, they only truly worked with the story given. Anything after this will probably be a far weaker movie that just feels like a money grab.
Take a new cast, a new story idea and run with it.
The movie felt like a One-Shot. And the story was ended with said One-Shot. So make some room for new characters!
Well, to be honest... We could keep the cast, if it could be made really clear that they are other characters... Like Chris Pine playing an elven Ranger and stuff like that...
@@jackwriter1908 they could keep it in the sword coast and even the red wizards but a couple decades later. maybe talk to the chars a bit for info. just say the horn somehow was stolen from a harper hold again. maybe the daughter ends up being the slightly older more experienced adventurer leading a group of new misfits to finish what her dad started and destroy the horn which recently a harper died getting the info back that it has been seen again in some city.
Oh HELL yeah!
That's what i am hoping too, but only a great box-office can give us that. And YES< Forgotten Realms is practically infinite as far as stories go. They could even get into Dr'zzt's story.... the first few, I mean.
Saw it last weekend, and going again this weekend.
Mainly because I had to take a break in the middle.... damnit.
@@isaacmathews5800 Ditto.
As far as Do-Urden goes, think they should start with Crystal Shard instead of the Underdark? I would certainly prefer that way, dark gritty is getting to be a trope that has been done to death these days.
@@johnpaullogan1365 this whole red wizards thing is probably the way to go, though I would hope for the Paladin to be in focus, considering that he actually seems to fight them... him with a bunch of other new characters trying to fight the red wizards and at one point his group says "we need this thing but it is heavily guarded, we need experts for this."
With another replying "I doubt we know anyone who could pull this off."
With the Paladin who no-one expects to actually know friends saying "I know a guy."
Have them show up for twenty minutes. We can see how the characters developed, while also focusing on new people.
And with them only being pulled into the story because they want to steal something we won't have the MCU problem with asking later _Where were all these Heroes?_ when they fight some final boss.
Did anyone notice that Edgin did in fact casted Suggestion on Sofina when she turns on them in the backstory sequence? He whispers in her ear not to hurt anyone, which is why she does a non-lethal timestop.
"We don't hurt anyone" - hey, you're right!
Xenk as the insanely OP DM PC was still my favorite. The bridge scene, where he's explaining the puzzle, and Simon takes a wrong step is a classic DM nightmare moment. A whole setup ruined b/c of a player screwing around, and then the 30 second "really??? really???" stare. I fell out laughing in the theater. After that, we get an arcana check and then "Oh look, a magic item that bypasses the whole damn thing, how convenient." That whole scene was brilliant and relatable.
Holga and Edgin met in a bar where she saw him at his lowest and presumably herself as well and they said she felt bad for the child so she helped him raise Edgin’s child. My guess is since she wanted a family of her own but was having romantic issues at home with her halfling husband.
Edgin 100% was using charisma, Bardic Inspiration, and expertise all time. He is great at a few things, but is okay at a lot of things.
The party members meet in the most DnD way possible "I want to join you"
The fact that they only want gold is VERY DnD.
i got into a debate about Edgin's class. My thought is he's the only multiclass character. He was a rogue while with the Harpers (for all the reasons you guys brought up) BUT once his wife dies and he leaves the harpers, he starts pulling in levels of bard. Because I would say he provides A LOT of bardic inspiration to the party throughout the movie, biggest one being helping Simon finally attune.
Absolutely loved it!!
SHOCKED you guys didn't say anything about the party that rose up next to them in the arena, it was the original cartoon characters from the TV show dungeons & dragons!!!
Hope they expand the world of D&D to the big screen 🤞
Same. I instantly recognised that party the moment I saw them.
@@Cherrytea558 I screamed out there's Bobby!!
They probably decided not to. no need to spoil all the eastereggs - besides that would take 20 min alone
Simon using prestidigitation and telekinesis to rob his audience was timeless. I'm going to have to use that next time I play a sorcerer.
100% agree! The movie was a really fun couple hours that was a great representation of the 'feel' of a campaign. I really appreciated that they didn't go into explaining the rules or explaining magic. I think that was a wise decision . And speaking of rules, it looks like they really leaned heavily into the 'rule of cool' when they were deciding what they wanted to showcase on the screen! Like the number of times the Druid could wild shape.
I went to see this with my dungeons & dragons group, and my comment to them after it was over was that this movie was not going to win any awards for best screenplay, but it was a lot of fun and a great way to introduce people to dungeons & dragons!
Seen it twice now. It still holds up on second viewing. I absolutely adore the found family of Holga, Edgin and Kira.
This may have already been covered by another commenter but I totally saw Holga get tagged by the knife in that final fight. It was at the very end when the whole party was going shot for shot with Sofina I may be Mandela effecting it but I seem to remember a overhead or elevated shot looking downward at the fight with sofina in the middle and each character making attacks in rapid succession. If I remember correctly, holga comes in from the left side of the screen, strikes at sofina, maybe strikes a glancing blow and in a cobra like moment, you see sofina’s arm/hand strike at her and the momentum carries holga offscreen,not to be seen until after the fight
I loved the moment when they sprung the trap on the bridge and couldn't get across. Oh? what's this walking stick? No, it's a teleportation wand. Felt like the DM was just like "shit, they messed up the dungeon already, um, you have a magic item."
LMFAO, yes, that is literally the exact same vibe I got with that scene as well!
And then the party proceeds to use that accidentally overpowered magic item to solve every subsequent problem in the campaign. I can't think of anything more classic D&D.
The prequel book D&D Honor among thieves: Road to Neverwinter really defines the back stories of Edgin, Holga, Simon, Forge, and Kira.
I want to know more about Doric. Very interesting back story that never really got explored.
@@XanderHarris1023 There is a prequel novel about her as well.
The 2 pre-qual books are really good. Read them both knowing they are young adult books…
It also addresses the timeline question of Holga and when she met Edgin. Basically, she _just_ got dumped by her husband, and that pub was kinda her first stop. So she was really down, and somehow Edgin's baby gave her comfort and purpose. I would say that the book does a fabulous job with character development for Edgin, Holga, and Forge. I would say that Simon is super one-dimensional (his arc doesn't complete until the movie), and Doric is not mentioned in the book.
The reason that makes the most sense for why they didn't have the other characters doing spells, is that to someone outside of D&D, they would get confused. If you had them using spells, the audience that isn't initiated in the game, would just say "Why do they need this guy to cast spells when they could do it?" Trying to explain to the audience in a good time frame that the Bard's spells are different than the Sorcerer's spells would just be too much. Not to mention if they had shown that the Bard had something like Healing Word, they would wonder why he can't just use Healing Word to stop his wife from dying.
My headcanon, even though the director himself had said otherwise, is that Edgin is really a Rogue with Lute proficiency.
@@jcdenton2187 and the inspiring leader feat.
@@jcdenton2187 i think he just rolled high on deception and tricked the director but i think the lute had expertise
Something, something, Red Wizard super blade that negates healing and resurrection, something.
@@AzureIV they stole that from Mordor and Fellowship of the Ring.
SPOILERS
***
One thing I really liked about the movie was how you could subtly see them rolling high and low in different situations. Like when the sorcerer uses a minor illusion so they can sneak past and then gets his foot stuck on a cobblestone. Or they come up with an incredible plan to use dimension door and wildshape to get past a ward but then the sorcerer trips on the way in. Totally the kinds of things that actually happen in a real session.
I feel like they simplified the classes to their core content. The bard became the person who talks and schemes, the barbarian hits things and takes hits, the sorcerer casts spells, and the druid turns into animals. Keeps it nice and simple for the sake of the movie, but you still get the main thing that defines the class they played.
Watching the review now. You guys are super sleeping on that Ed and Holga motivation is to get their daughter back. Simon literal arc is proving to himself that he is a worthy spellcaster. I agree we needed more with Doric and hoping there is something on the Blu-ray.
Took my wife to see the movie, one of the remarks she made during the movie, was “this is what your games are like?” And I responded with “yes this is the kind of stuff we are imagining going on when we role play”
🤣👍
Edgin is a multiclass bard. He eluded to it in his backstory, as him being a Harper bard wasn’t paying the bills so he started stealing. He just has no spells. But he sings, gave out bardic inspiration all movie long, and persuaded and received a lot. Face of the party bard/rogue
Also I kind of have to disagree with Monty on Holga's connection with the daughter. I mean I get the whole, it would make more sense if she was a relative to the deceased mother and stuff but personally I really like the aspect of two random people coming together and forming a bond to complete an objective, that objective being to raise a child.
I especially like it because it's so rare to get a movie where the main male and female protagonists don't get together in the end but instead just really close friends.
We really need more of, the opposite sex can just be friends not just be a couple.
But again, I do just like the concept of Holga who decided helping this random dude with his baby was the right thing to do with no prior relationships beforehand.
I think he honestly just missed out on the intro of her character 😅
It does go by pretty quickly, so there was probably just this tiny gap missing when they met that changed the entire perspective of Why and How she joined with Edgin.
Also would explain why he thinks her timeline is confusing, because it makes plenty of sense
To address the criticism against motivations for the heist, the money was Simon's motivation, Doric wanted to get back at Forge, Edgin wanted the tablet to resurrect his wife and Holga wanted to help him (and if there's gold too then bonus). That was pretty clear to me and I never had an issue with motivations.
Holga and Edgin also wanted to get Kira
My 9-year old son asked me what Charisma is on the way to the theater. When they introduced the Paladin, I learned over. "That's Charisma!"
I liked how they distilled the classes from the game into their most important aspect in the movie, having everyone casting spells would be to confusing. The Bard inspires and uses charisma, the Barbarian is strong and reckless fighter, Druids turn into animals, Wild Magic Sorcerers cast spells and dont really have controll of their magic.
Also the defining feature of Metamagic of Sorcerers was the clutch ability in the climatic moment of the battle with Sofina - Simon Counterspelled her Time Stop and she had no idea because he used Subtle Spell!!!
@@TheHandgunhero wait I thought it was that the antimagic bracelet was placed on her wrist by the daughter
@T It was placed during the monologue Sofina made. The Timestop effect was very visible and happening, but it didn't continue after going through Simon. He subtle spell counterspelled - he even said so.
@@TheHandgunhero ahhh I missed that, thanks :)
This was a great movie. They made it interesting for newcomers and fantasy lovers, and they threw in enough for d&d players and enthusiasts to enjoy. Loved it. 10/10 fantasy, 8/10 overall.
I was pleasantly surprised how funny the movie was! I actually really liked how Chris Pine seemed to use his bardic spells in really low fantasy way. He would give Pep talks and sometimes the players would use the inspiration and sometimes they might forget to use it until later in the campaign 😂
Spoiler:
For example he spends a lot of the movie trying to give confidence to Simon, telling him he believes in him and it takes the whole move for him to listen to it and successfully cast his spells and harness the helmet
When the Barbarian got stabbed during the fight, you can actually hear the sound effect of it happen and then she disappears from the fight. I thought it was an editing mistake of them adding a weapon sound effect when one wasnt present, but in actuality they were setting up the knife. It was a well done and subtle moment that I'm sure a lot of people miss.
It was an application of Checkov's principle. If you are going to pull a gun off the wall and shoot it in Act 3, scene 1, it needs to be on the wall in Act 1, scene 3. A great use of playing fair with the audience.
I sure missed it, though the twirling speed of Sofina's fighting against all four of them makes it very believable.
****SPOILERS****
I understood Edgan's statement of bringing back his wife and not her mother to mean his motivations were selfish. He was concerned about his loss and not her loss. I thought it poetic that it in the end his chose to revive the mother figure in his daughter's life.
The paladin's moments all screamed borderline 'DMPC' and I thought it funny that he ended up stepping away, choosing not to join the group, and stating that it was their story and their quest, lol.
I also think the audience is suppose to discover the closeness of Holga and Kira alongside Edgan. Edgan seemed almost baffled when Kira ran past him to Holga when they first reunited. It gave me this impression that the intention was that we, the audience, were to slowly unwrap the relationship between them the same way Edgan was.
I feel like Monty had to go to the toilet or something near the start cause Hulgas timeline seemed pretty clear to me.
She left her tribe to marry Bradley Cooper. She got depressed and started frequenting bars, she saw Edgin being a drunk and felt sympathy for his baby so started looking after the baby with him. They become friends, everyone gets older meeting Hugh Grant and Simon then go on the one last "quest" to get the tablet but get arrested.
Agree 100%
I think it’s kinda funny the way you guys interpreted the Paladin, because I had a much different interpretation (I kinda saw him as this super badass DMPC that the DM wanted to show off for the portion he appeared in)
it was a lot of fun! i don’t even really want a sequel, BUT i absolutely want more DnD movies! i loved the movie!
Thank you! Agreed! I just want more DND films like this one, being new characters and places!
These characters don’t really need a sequel, but the cast was so enjoyable to watch, I’d love a sequel. Or…and I really doubt they would do this, but I’d watch this cast play different characters, which would mirror D&D as a game…
Holga the barbarian is by far, my favorite character in this movie!
Baldurs Gate 3 gives Barbarians improvised weapon proficiency and the ability to use an improvised weapon (or use a creature AS an improvised weapon) as a bonus action. Watching Holga fight really plays into my opinion that this is a *fantastic* design decision that should be rolled into core D&D. It also counters a lot of the limited complexity of the class by giving you so much fun stuff to do
Definitely would add a bit to the class. In the Epic NPC Man D&D Campaign, while Rowan loves playing Bodger, I think after a couple of years he's getting a little bored. All he does in combat is rage and smash, while everyone else is able (often compelled) to get creative.
Guys!!!
I truly expected you guys to mention the homage to the D&D cartoon from the 80's. In the arena cage the characters are dressed just like them. I picked them up right away.
This movie was the best I have seen in 5yrs! Easily 10 out of 10 for me!
Awesome to see Joe & Jill here. Thanks!
Hope this movie helps us get more new D&D players and I hope our community gives them a great welcome.
The holga fighting with every single item she could grab was gold to me it was everything I think of when a barbarian fights
Or with the Tavern Brawler feat to get d4+Str on unarmed attacks and proficiency with improvised weapons.
I went in with a mindset of that this is a dnd session that I've played with my closest friends. And I was just in awe of it. Seeing these locals, scenes, fights, and creatures; I feel like my love for dnd has been brought to a greater height. I want to play a dnd campaign where we start off in a Jail cell and have to plan a way out or even have us be pardoned by the lord of the realm but are forced to do a specific task for them. All of these ideas are just surging through my head, and I cannot wait for the next time I get to play dnd with my friends and geek out over the game we all love.
As someone who watched this with their whole dnd party and my dad who played dnd long before me and my friends we had a fantastic time and it was a really good movie to us. I do hope this isn’t the end of dnd movies because I’d love to see more.
Spoiler for Holga at the collapsed bridge
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I loved how when they're trying to cross the downed bridge and she's like, well, I have rope. I think it's 50 feet? And the chasm is so much bigger than 50 feet. How many people have said that in a game? 😂
It was a great adaptation of D&D! There were lots of goofy antics, but the villains and the world were still taken seriously.
Exactly. They weren’t taking it too seriously, but they weren’t lampooning it either. The had fun, but they didn’t make fun…
My favourite scene was convoy infiltration. The amount of DnD bullshit at play with the portal staff and them doing it all right in front of the convoy was both hilarious, and yet looked like a very plausible scenario for a DnD campaign.
I cannot stress how much that use of the portal staff looked like it came right out of an r/dndmemes post, and how much I loved it.
Love to see a video where y’all go over the stat blocks that were made for the characters.
Was literally just looking at Ginny Di's community post asking if people had seen the DnD movie, I've finally personally experienced the Dungeon Dude's uncanny and perfect timing I've heard of so much first hand!
I like to think Kira did pick up some tricks from Forge (molded in his image... to a point) and the team now has a Rogue.
Edgin IS a Bard even though he doesn’t cast spells. He frequently recounts tales and plays songs that are very impactful to the story and the party. I like to think that he is there to give bardic inspiration frequently even though it isn’t explicitly shown
The stat block from D&D Beyond has the more non-combat spells of Friends, Charm Person, Suggestion, etc, so not really obvious combat spells.
I agree - he even cheers Holga up after her visit with Marliman, and I think that singing that song with his lute is bardic magic, bolstering Holga's morale after a downer of a meeting with her former husband.
I feel like they shot extra scenes for Simon and Doric that got cut for length. Would love to see the 200 minute director’s cut with a scene where wanted posters of the party litter the city and Simon is stung by Sophina’s description of him as a petty hedge mage. Hell, she could have used Sending to taunt him personally and mocked him for not knowing the spell himself.
How about the scene where Doric actually does leave the party at the beach and runs into some of her displaced wood elf kin on the road escaping from Forge’s deforestation squad that rekindles her resolve to strike him down.
These moments would add maybe 5 minutes to the run time but do a lot to reestablish supporting character motivations and ties to the villains.
Agreed. The movie was just a couple of scenes of character development away to be a stronger & deeper story.
Still great fun though. :)
The relationship with Edgin and Holga was explained, at first, as she felt bad for the daughter who had a drunk as a father and later on when we find out that Holga's marriage was ruined because of her own struggles it really fits into place for me.
The Jornathan stuff was so hilarious to me bc if you don't know what an Aarakocra is, you think that Edgin is desperate to wait for the other judge bc he'll be sympathetic, but a D&D player realizes that they specifically mentioned a race that can fly with that window behind them. It was wonderfully executed, and then I just know the DM was like "JFC, they were going to sign the pardon! Why was your impulse to kidnap the Aarakocra and jailbreak?? You rolled so well on that Persuasion check and you wasted it!"
Pines character was a pretty good bard. he gave the most inspirations
Edging and Doric not casting spells makes it easy for non-players to understand why Simon is essential. KISS principle.
Such an awesome in theater experience, really happy to see so many new people falling in love with DND
I recently watched all of Record of Lodoss War and that immediately became my recommendation for seeing DND in action. It's not technically a DND setting, but it perfectly portrays how I've always imagined DND worlds, magic, and fights looking. I particularly love how the 3 sources of magic are explained for Mages, Cleric's and Shamans/Druid's
Holga's banishment from the Elk tribe was for choosing to be with Bradley Cooper and she met Edgin after they broke up. That's why Edgin knew about it and asks her if she's sure she wanted to go by her old place on the way to Neverwinter.
I get thinking of Edgin as a rogue but for me it seemed as a bard to a T. Bardic inspiration showed multiple times in the movie, convincing Forge to let them fight was suggestion to me haha, and seeing his stat block shows most of his spells are more subtle
I remember hearing the half-elf was specifically a wild magic sorcerer. Which would certainly explain both his confidence issues and his inconsistent showings of magic.
After all, with Wild Magic you can accidentally explode someone you're trying to charm with magic... or turn yourself into a potted plant while trying to cast *Magic Missile* XD
Simon literally mentions that he uses wild magic in the movie.
22:21 A couple things on Edgin, specifically the lack of (obvious) spellcasting or other "Bardy" traits:
I think the directors said that he's being played by the guy who doesn't actually keep good track of what's on his character sheet.
His "We've got 'em now!" quips as Bardic Inspiration is not really more of a stretch than the Owlbear Wild Shape.
I also agree with Monty's points at 35:03 about the needs of the film medium being different.
Personally, I think it makes an enjoyable popcorn movie. Characters were generally deep enough to be interested and had some funny moments.
This is a movie that I am hoping gets an extended edition.
Saw it night before last, 10/10 film! If i want to go back and see it again, it's an auto 10/10 for me.
*SPOILERS:*
The way they handled The Red Wizards of Thay, absolutely brilliant.
The way the Druid just owlbear Hulk Smashed her at the end?! Amazing!
I also really loved how in the arena we got to see the original Dungeons and Dragons animated cartoon characters as one of the teams in the games
Something that's really cool for me to see is that WotC is making a Red Wizards of Thay module and they based the character art off of the Red Wizards we've seen in the past as well as the ones they used in the movie.
Overall this movie is really good, it has one or two moments where I'm like "meh" but that doesn't discount the entire film!
I think Dan Wells explained the convenient portal rod best …
How many of us have had a player at the table ruin a fantastically planned puzzle (Simon breaks the bridge) and as a DM had to find a way to make it so that the group can still continue with the quest past this point (Ohh wow that’s a portal rod) and then for the players to abuse that in amazing ways (sneaking into the cart, not the vault) and completely let them impact the story (getting everyone out of the arena). If this was specifically set out like this, then absolutely “chef’s kiss”.
Really enjoyed the movie.
Spoilers below:
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On the interpersonal attachments, I thought they were better laid out than Monte made them seem.
Holga and Edgin met in the Tavern when Edgin had her watch his daughter and came back to see them bonding, at which point they stuck together. They met Simon when Forge put his crew together. Doric and Simon had history from Doric having courted her before. So there were definite ties and reasons for them be together (Holga and Edgin had been together for a while before being recruited, Simon was in Forge's crew, and Doric was someone from Simon's backstory). Yes, Doric had the most tenuous reason to stay around, but given her primary goal was to stop Forge from clearcutting her forest, it was enough for me.
Overall, it felt like a D&D game to me, but it stayed out of the weeds to keep it approachable for non-gamers. It was a narrow rope to walk, and I feel they stuck the landing.
I absolutely love the movie. I saw it twice opening weekend. I did want to comment on your remarks about the relationship between Holga and Edgin. SPOILER BELOW?
In the film, he explains that she basically came into his life and became like a sister to him and helped raise his daughter. They didn’t really elaborate further. In the prequel novel, she basically picks him up off the ground while he’s in a drunken stupor at a tavern, and basically took pity on him and his daughter, and then just never left their lives. I mean she was feeling abandoned and cast out from her tribe and the ending of her marriage so I guess she just had nowhere else to go.
The stab in Holga can be seen very quickly during the sequence where they were all in close combat. I thought I saw something that didn't happen until they panned to it later.
With how majestic and absolutely flawless the Paladin was, I am convinced that the paladin was an npc character based in the dm’s previous played character
I enjoyed this movie way more than I expected to - honestly the most fun I've had in theaters in a while. This is an easy recommendation for me, especially if you're a D&D player
I thought the Paladin was DMPC. He pretty much solved all their problems and had that fight scene where he alone took down a group of enemies while the PCs could only watch, like in those RPG horror stories.
I've seen it three times and when the party rushed Sophina, she pulled her dagger and stabbed Holga. But then, I was looking for it.
I heard the sound effect of the hit, during the fight.
As many have pointed out by now, they've reskinned the Bard's magic to be inspirational and motivational speaking instead. It makes total sense.
Really liked it! I actually thought that the magic was really well done in this movie. I love when there is no huge need explaining spells, even if as a dnd player you could. I think you pretty quickly figure out that magic is all around in this world, even as a non-initiated. Of late the explaining of magic systems has become all the rage, but I never found that to be a great story augmenter if overdone especially in movies/tv series.
I was so unsure about Chris Pine in this, like would he phone it in for the acting part. Now I want to thank him for playing with it. I know if I was a young DnD player again I would be even more hyped about Doric too than I was. :p I think the only thing I truly was lukewarm about was Hugh Grant. Now I actually don't hate him as an actor, but he was too Hugh Grant in this. It took me out a bit in his scenes, so it was probably more on me than his performance.
I actually loved the connection between Holga and Kira and think it was a totally believable connection. I would have felt it was a bit of a let down if it was just because she was related. As it stands it's a lovely story about someone who has lost all their family and connection stepping in and forging a family with this down and out dude and his baby.
But maybe there could have been a line where she talks about needing to find a family too, at the time when she happened upon Ed in the pub.
I haven't seen it yet but hearing everything about Holga made me happy. I LOVE Barbarians and just about every way you could play such characters and it sounds like they made my ideal barbarian and put them in a movie.
The prequels (2 books "Road to Neverwinter" and "The Druid's Call" / comic book "The Feast of the Moon") are some light and fun additional material that definitely adds to tighten the party's bonds to each other, as well as addressing more D&D rules. Definitely recommend them!
Thanks for mentioning these. I’ll check them out.