@@RichO1701e I wonder if their "sensors", literal or figurative, are sensitive enough to detect that Voyager in "Endgame" turned the invention of multiple technologies into a closed time loop.
Well, she tried. She tried and she failed, but what did you expect from her, she is only human? I mean, time travel is for Janeway like smoking is for a regular person: addictive and hard to stop.
The writers wrote themselves into a corner with Relativity. When Admiral Janeway went to the past, Relativity was nowhere to be found despite drastic changes to the future.
I do not get the issues some people have. It is just a handfull of alternate timelines. Once you accept that the cause can be in a alternate timeline and the reaction in yours, it becomes trivial. Not harder then any other Multiverse theory.
Contrary to Troi, Seven never went to Starfleet Academy, was even never graduated at any school since she was assimilated at 6 yo. A uniform requires the academy training and if she had applied to the trainee admition program, she could have just worn the same kind of cadet like uniform as Wesley, which would have been if not completely the same, just little less sexy than the cat suit. Once and for all; Does 7/9 look sexier in a uniform? No, Was it more morally appropriate for her to wear a uniform? Possibly, but then again, it would have taken for Janeway, Chacotay, B'elanna, Harry and Tuvok to mount an official training to earn her the right to wear one. And since she got all the Starfleet knowledge with the Borg Collective, she's already as skilled, ( if not even more because the Borg doesn't only assimilate Starfleet officers) as a Starfleet officer. They still could have designed a more appropriate civilian outfit, they would have done it since they demonstrated to have good taste on other outfits throughout the franchise. But of course the "attracting new audience" defcon button was on... And she still looks good in a more standardized uniform -Starfleet pyjamas style uniforms were always better looking on women, even on Discovery, the first Starfleet Uniform that looks kinda bad both on men and women was the Picard one)
@@Hyperion5182 Lol probably not, but if she's hungry, she can get coffee later and have sushi for lunch. I hear it goes well with the Tempura Prime Directive and a little bit of saki.
Anyone else feel bad for the past Braxton? He never showed any sign of being convinced by his future self and tried to capture himself before he was arrested, but he still gets treated like a criminal.
I think it works with the overall, uh, "zany" tone of the episode. Pretty much the only moment of it that's treated as entirely serious is the confrontation between "present" Seven and "past" Janeway in the corridor. Otherwise, Braxton's misfortune comes off more like Wile E. Coyote than tragedy.
The younger Braxton was basically a victim of the grandfather paradox caused by his older self's actions. It sucks because usually consequences happen after someone does something, not before.
When she says "let's just get started before my headache gets any worse." she looks like she's in the middle of a stroke... They couldn't have found anyone better for the role. Love her as Captain Janeway.
Why do I love the part where she reacts to her past self giving that ensign orders while walking confidently down the hall? It’s like she got caught up in the crisis, shrugged it off, and then thought, “Focus, Janeway, on the current task at hand!”
Indeed ! Then they can use so much 'old' episodes clips , from all former series ! like DS9 , Voyager , TNG , etc With all the good CGI nowadays , they can really make a good looking serie , with exiting story's ! I AM ALL FOR IT !
aramanth it is a Wells Class science vessel from the 29th century. 31st century ships are bigger on the inside. Time Lords must have joined the Federation between the 29th and 31st centuries.
Star Trek Online has you interact with a timeship from time to time, the USS Pastak. There are also some snippets of information from a Cardassian tactical officer from on a timeship you can get access to which describe some of their missions. Mainly it is them thwarting plots from Temporal Cold War goons, from Star Trek Enterprise. My favorite one is about temporal terrorists trying to do something at DS9, I can't remember exactly what, but by the time the timeship crew got there to apprehend the subjects they found them dead with Garak leaving the room containing the bodies. It is highly implied that Garak "handled" the situation himself.
I love Janeways look when she realises she's been cornered into volunteering, also seen when Paris needed someone to play Queen Arachnia in 'Bride of Chaotica'
JanetFunkYeah First I'm not alt right. Second. Where do I begin? I can honestly say that a dream Liberal world would be beautiful. BUT it could never work in reality. For instance liberals believe they can just ban guns and criminals wouldn't use them. Or people just use Welfare for temporary hard times in their lives and not as a primary income source. That would be nice. But doesn't happen. It's like true communism. Works great on paper, but can't work in reality.
This is why you idiots are losing everyone that disagrees with you is alt-right its as meaningless now as the playground insult of calling someone gay. Which by the way their are a lot of gay conservatives if you would get your head out of your ass.
My ending to this scene: Time Agent: "...Try to avoid Time Travel." Janeway: "You say Voyager pops up on your sensors too often? I have a one-word answer to that charge." Time Agent: "Oh?" Janeway: "Kirk" Time Agent: "Touche"
Sisko: "Yah I shook Kirk's hand on the bridge in the 2260s" Temporal Investigations guy 1: "You what?" Temporal Investigations guy 2: "Kirk, what a menace" Temporal Investigations guy 1: "What?" Sisko: "Yah, Anomaly + Darwin=Kirk. Also...Picard..." Picard: "Bruh, you try fighting Devians and Borg going back in time to end Earth. Also, Nexus... ya, Kirk..." Kirk: "Come on, yall try getting two extinct whales from the past to prevent a bloody whale probe from ending Earth. Also blame McCoy for becoming high and going through the Guardian of Forever..." Agent Daniel: "ok this is going out of hand" Archer: "Why did you bring me here Dan?" Agent Daniel: shrugs Burnham: comes in with her angel sht. "Well.." Everyone: together "Shut up!"
@@salilbhatnagar But I thought Picard broke the temporal time directive more times than Janeway. yep to my recall, he did, as well as the prime directive.
“or should i say backward?” seven LOVES puns and plays on words. it’s like her favorite thing. nobody ever talks about her sense of humor, but it’s her most humanizing trait (besides her obvious social anxiety and panic disorder. and autism.) she’s constantly cracking jokes but nobody ever laughs at them. and it reads to me as if she knows exactly how she sounds- she delivers her jokes in the same kind of robotic, beaurocratic tone she usually speaks in. she uses her own inflection as a part of the humor- the fact that you wouldn’t expect her to be making a joke seems to be part of the punchline for her. she shares this trait with the funny vulcans.
Reminds me of a quote I read in a story once... "Anyone who hasn't gotten a headache while contemplating temporal paradox does not truly understand the concept."
As someone who has once tried to map out the Dragonball universe timelines out of sheer boredom, I can confirm: It is the quickest route to a self-inflicted migraine.
Time agent: avoid time travel if you can Admiral janeway: I’m about to end this mans whole career and get voyager home quicker and sacrifice myself killing the Borg Queen!!!!
@@TheH3dgie The show was originally supposed to pick up the dark theme from DS9 and have the marquis and starfleet crews always at odds, but they integrated them too soon, and gave a happy ending.
@@sarfaraz.hosseini Yep. I know. Ronald Moore wanted it darker, Berman wanted kindergarten Star Trek. Moore left and created Battlestar Galactica which featured everything he wanted to do with Voyager, and it was a far far far superior series
"See you in the 24th century." "I look forward to it. Or should I say backward?" Funniest line ever. Really shows how Seven of Nine really can be funny when she wants to be.
"Yeah, I'll avoid time-travel, unless I decide to use to it in the far future to get Voyager home much earlier for the sake of an awesome series finale."
Life is so boring and depressing these days. Watching Star Trek cheers me up in ways I don’t think anyone understands, I appreciate these actors and series makers so much.
1:50 I love the eye thing Janeway does, even I would be confused given the circumstances 2:38 is like "Was I really like that thos years ago?" or simply just the weird sensation of seeing her younger self, which sort of fits perfectly because at the end of Voyager, she also encounters her older self too
And nobody who watches the time line did anything about it. But anytime Voyager itself ended up traveling through time, Braxton was always there. The year of hell doesn't count, since they don't actually travel through time, just dealing with aliens that are manipulating it.
i wondered this too, how did she know the name of the ship when she was beamed on board, i dont remember them reveling it to her at any point of the jumps
@@shailathunderbird5319 I believe she was remembering the events of Future's End, although that is unusual in and of itself, given the Berman Era's near-phobic avoidance of continuity.
It was actually "Since none of your time jumps were to your *foreseeable* future." In other words, to points in their own lives they could then alter with the knowledge. Not much damage they could do with just the knowledge of a ship's name from five hundred years in their future.
maybe cuz the transporters on ships like the USS Relativity several times more advanced and were designed that way for a ship of its century for temporal transport.
I like how the Janeway of that era and her assistant (and possibly others) just wander past a wounded crewman lying in the hallway and either don't see it or completely ignore it.
I'm guessing the only reason the Relativity didn't get involved in the series finale is likely because in the original timeline, they had more time travel shenanigans in the decades before they finally reached Earth, so future Starfleet was probably like: "One temporal violation to erase several others? We'll allow it."
The way it was written up in the books was "That was how it was supposed to happen." Basically a preview of the same line of reasoning the TVA used when they didn't interfere with the Avengers.
This was the focus of several major story events Star Trek Online, if you're willing to accept apocrypha canon. There's a fair amount of time-travel that occurs in STO. Not too surprising in an MMO story. But at one point a race of aliens in the future starts to protest the future signing of the Temporal Accords. This alien race is the Na'kuhl, the same aliens that appeared for 2 episodes in ST:Enterprise. STO fleshed out the Na'kuhl's story and made them a lot more sympathetic. The Na'kuhl had lost their homeworld when their star went supernova due to a running temporal battle between a Kal Dono and the Tholians, who were trying to steal the Tox Uthat (ST:TNG). They were caught in the crossfire of a time-travel fight they weren't involved in, and their civilization never fully recovered. The Na'kuhl were protesting because they viewed the Federation-Klingon-Romulan alliance as hypocritical for attempting to restrict the use of time-travel to change the past when they've used it to save themselves countless times, and were now turning around to prevent anyone else from doing the same, especially when the Na'kuhl homeworld was destroyed as a direct result of someone else using it. The Alliance judged that they needed the timeline to proceed exactly as it had in order to preserve the order of events, which means they indirectly judged that the destruction of the Na'kuhl homeworld was a necessary sacrifice. "Why does your civilization get to be saved, but not our's?!" The Na'kuhl become a major villain across several STO story arcs, tying into the Temporal Cold War of ST:Ent. They try to do everything they can to save their homeworld, up to and including destroying the Federation. While the player, representing the future Federation-Klingon-Romulan alliance, tries to stop them. The unfortunate implication of the story is that, yes, the Federation has timeships to protect the timeline. But, they're protecting the timeline in their own self-interest. They might believe they're doing some good, and in many cases they probably are, but they are not immune to unilaterally letting some time-travel occur in order for their own desired timeline to remain intact.
According to one of the books, Admiral Janeway's temporal incursion created the chain of events that put the future on the path that they were from. She got a bye on that one.
Seven, you disrupted the time line with your infernal ping pong game! We must rewrite the past, or all the ping pong balls in the galaxy will be simultaneously transported to Marty McFly's home room at Hill Valley High School in the year 1985!
The *"Temporal Enforcement Cop",* is clearly "warning the wrong party", when he sends Janeway, and Seven, back to their respective points in the timestream! The only reason Voyager show up on the Temporal Enforcement Police Scans, is *due to other Time Travelers, seeking out Janeway and Co.!*
People tend to forget that Relativity/Braxton appears whenever people from Relativity's time try to alter future. The timeline where Relativity exists is post-Endgame, therefore the timetravel in Endgame led to their timeline. Relativity messing with Endgame events is them messing with their own past.
Captain Janeway : Since my first day on the job as a Starfleet captain I swore I'd never let myself get caught in one of these godforsaken paradoxes - the future is the past, the past is the future, it all gives me a headache
Jon Z I have to strongly disagree. Watch Renaissance Man. Near the end, when the Doc is rendering his anticipated last chance mea culpas (they're all hilarious), Seven's reaction to his admission of long hidden ardor for her, is a fantastically realized mix of incredulity and a barely repressed laughter explosion. Wonderfully, we get a lovely twofer, as B'Elanna's response is a characteristically sarcastic, stone faced, "yeah, right, give me a break" put down. The series, has myriad contenders, like Chakotay's pained expression in being stuck with Neelix as his search partner, and subsequent reaction to the latter's request for relationship advice, in Twisted. But I still find my first inclination to be the most persuasive.
@@mitchellmelkin4078 didn't every crew member try and get some alone time with N'elix , and it would have been awesomeness if the Doctor teamed up with N'elix to try and cheer up the crew with comedy routines every time they were under attack, so basically every episode
@@pyrodiscoflash6115 , Despite his laudable ability to render genuinely sagacious and compassionate counsel to whoever might be in need, I think that many in the crew would find their exposure to his comedic chops, sufficiently satisfied, by having to view Briefing with Neelix/Good Morning, Voyager!!!🙄🙄🙄
@@mitchellmelkin4078 it definitely would have been a incentive to get back to Starfleet space asap, also the Doctor should show up in different attire from his adventures in HollowDeck Hallucinations with Doc, helping the crew getting thru
@@FireLordJohn3191 Only those that try to have something that never had even a whisper of possibility. The square/round thing (and I DON'T mean in any sexual way on that imagery). Though if the fictions were of an invented(oc originalm character to use the terminology) one the result would be acceptable. The same thing is with the Benoist Supergirl and McGrath Lena Luthor in what is known as "SuperCorp". Of course if there is SOMETHING there like in Xena and Gabrielle and maybe Callisto, then they go all out on the tale.(That's TALE not TAIL, getcher mind outta da gutter!).
Everyone who is normally in a catsuit looked much better in uniform. Troi, Kira (yeah, many of her Bajoran outfits were very catsuity) and T'Pol (not only mirror universe, but when she wore Starfleet standard in "Twilight" (ENT).)
@@suzukispider No, that was time travel AND wormholes. Voyager made it home...at extreme cost. Janeway, having aged into an old steely grey battleaxe, decides she no longer gives any fucks. She takes torpedoes and a new armor tech back to Voyager, just as they are leaving a Borg Transwarp Hub, the Janeway at that time deciding it wasn't worth the risk. Old Janeway fits up the ship, then remains behind to clean up the evidence. She "sows a little discord amongst order", resulting in a massive Borg setback, including the loss of the Hub. We have reason to believe that she doesn't survive the experience. Young Janeway gets home, and promoted to Admiral. Everybody actually survives this time around.
SigmoidStatue6, Not really funny, as much as predictable, unimaginative, and unfortunate. Instead of taking the understandable, but ho-hum choice of Voyager's return being wholly centered around Janeway (two of them, yet) and the Borg, some creative and redemptive thought might have been, at least, considered, in having the series arc come full circle, as the mechanism employed. Alright, the Borg certainly could have served as the nemesis, but instead of relying on time travel's iteration of Janeway, providing a bag of future technology to provide the means of escape (along with all the drama spent on 2 Janeway's in conflict), the dilemma might have been presented as truly existentially dire and seemingly inescapable for Voyager. Instead, salvation could come from creatures whom have abilities that are superior to anything that the Borg can muster, finally, in opposition. No, not the Undine, but rather, and so appropriately, in an organic and logical sense, the Ocampa, specifically Kes. Rather than having wasted her return to the series, as was essentially the case, the final scenario might have been thoroughly conceived, far in advance. So as not to have Kes pop out of thin air, to act as a deus ex machina that would not only save the crew from death, but allow them to get home as well, the same crisis that bedeviled her in Fury, could have been utilized, as a parallel plotline. However, rather than having the confusion and dislocation of her post-transformation experience, inflicted on Voyager, an alternate and similarly cogent source for her recovery, could have been provided by an encounter with Suspiria, whose rather implausible years' long absence from the series would rightly be resolved, by her returning, at the end. Despite Kes having defeated her intention of destroying Voyager in Cold Fire, the realization that Suspiria was simultaneously exposed to, i.e., that Janeway et al. were not the malevolent lot that caused her mate's demise, would coherently, have quelled any enmity that she might have harbored. So, in coming across Kes at such a disordered and falsely imagined stage in her life, Suspiria, rather than Janeway, could have acted as the agent of calm, recollection, and reconciliation that Kes was in such desperate need of, an act not of mere plot convenience, but as a symbolic squaring of the circle, for the devastation that she and the Caretaker had inadvertently wrought on Ocampa, ages before. Hence, freed from the solipsistic trap that had so narrowed her vision and the full range of her cognition, Kes would be in a position to sense the grave peril that Voyager was facing, that in the meantime, Janeway had been able to stave off, but to no real effective possibility of averting eventually succumbing to. Whether the escape dimension of the presence of the Hub had been revealed at this point of the plot, could have been finagled in some manner. But, the Queen's seemingly inexorable role of Voyager's executioner, would be confronted and overwhelmed, not by a simulacrum from the future wielding a debilitating virus, but instead, by a real character, who, out of love for those that had become her family, and whose sacrifice had saved her race, while stranding themselves from home, for an indefinite future, and in so doing, bring the full dimensions of the series, to not only an unerringly valid denouement, but a movingly emotional one, as well. Whether Kes might have survived that duel with the Queen, and gone on with Voyager on the last leg of the trip home, would have been a decision that, legitimately, could have been argued with reasonable vigor, from both ends, but, perhaps, one of the great disappointments, voiced by many, of the actual Endgame realization, could have been remediated, with some inclusion of scenes depicting the crew's being greeted, at least, on the only planet, that they had longed to see again. Such might have been an outline of a genuinely merited ending to Voyager, rather than the pat, safe, and trope filled story, albeit, with bells and whistles of differing sorts, galore, that the audience was given, after 7 long years. Would such a concept have conceivably been foreseen to have the type of appeal (read ratings potential), that the eventual product would be anticipated to? Almost certainly not, even conceding a certain percentage of the show's loyal followers would have perceived how well met, in so many ways, this sort of creativity might have been unquestionably satisfying. Obviously, and with real justification, both B & B and the network, as any other, would desire as popular a finale as could be managed. Still, looking at the scenario from the point of view, that realistically, I believe, bespoke a more than slight irrelevancy that any conceivable ratings success would play in redeeming what had been an endeavor with a years long declining following (however, the numbers truly illustrated that), and one that had been likewise known, would not continue in any form afterwards (movies being out of the question), why not have taken a gamble, in bringing this arc, compromised as it had been, in what it might have come to represent in the ST ouevre, to an end that would have been so much more fulfilling, honest, and resonant, in a way that few programs choose to make manifest?
I think it depends on what reintegration *is.* The reason there are three Braxtons during this scene is because they're all on the Relativity at the same time. If they send them back to the moments before they time traveled in the first place, then in any given moment, there is only one Braxton and none of them are hurt or destroyed. I think that's what "reintegrated" is supposed to mean. I mean, Seven of Nine is going to be reintegrated as well, but there is only one Seven on the ship, so it's not like she ceases to exist because she merges with another one. She is simply sent back to her correct time. Braxton is probably a special case because he already exists at a point in time where they can basically have three trials for the same person "at the same time," but in reality they exist at different points in time.
@@Adam-ni6ne I still feel bad for the first Braxton. He was trying to stop the destruction of the Voyager, not knowing that his future self was the bad guy. So this Braxton was innocent but still punished for something he never had the chance to do, despite two versions of him actually doing it. Basicly, there should be three trials 1 Braxton: Innocent. He didn't do anything bad but actually tried to help 2 Braxton: Guilty for time travel and almost destroying the Voyager (Caught by Seven) 3 Braxton: Guilty for time travel and planning to destroy the Voyager. (Caught by Janeway) To be honest, the whole Relativity plot is full of holes. Braxton tried to save the future from being destroyed by destroying the Voyager. So he went back in time (present) but ended even further back in time (past) with the Voyager. So he was the reason why mankind evolved faster than possible (because of his ship) and was left on Earth when the Voyager tried to save Braxton's future. By doing so, another Braxton appears and everything seems fine, except that the first Braxton still is on Earth. In theory, the Relativity (or a different ship) should have fixed this mistake (and many other ones.) although it would have messed up the current timeline. Then we got the whole Relativity episode ending with Janeway agreeing to be careful with the timeline. Of course, Admiral Janeway and future Kim ignored that and both of them changed the timeline without anyone caring. The whole Star Trek universe is more or less based on messing with the timeline (first contact with the Borg on Earth, Q giving Picard a second chance, Picard destroying manking, the whole new Star Trek universe with a young Kirk) but only the Voyager got in trouble. The episode was good but the story should have been different. The whole Time Police plot doesn't work for Star Trek because many important events had only been possible because of messing with the timeline
@@Kanerudo , It's my interpretation, I understand, but, I don't claim the intellectual chops to have conceived of it individually, as I've heard many other folks relate the same thing, and I simply find it persuasive, so I subscribe to the contention. Anyway, in opposition to the linear theory you're positing, there's no messing with THE timeline, going on at all, in any of these episodes. What is happening in Endgame, for example, due to Janeway's tinkering, is the creation of a wholly new and separate timeline, that exists out of any connection with the one she left. That Starfleet is aware of this, is implicitly implied by what Kim says, before she crosses over, just as was the case, with Laforge's dialogue with Chakotay, in Timeless. Neither gave any sense that existence in their own timeline, would be erased from existence if they weren't successful in stopping Janeway and Chakotay, respectively. Their concern was only related to some unpredictable and unknowable impact that the establishment of these divergent paths might cause, in their own. I would suggest that such a worry, was similarly illusory, as once such a divergence took place, there really shouldn't be any conduit or interconnectivity between the two, that could possibly to that sort of consequence. Each would proceed, as with highways that never converge afterwards, following whatever potential future, each would encounter, based on the self-contained actions, therein, occurring independently. The only undisputed change rendered in Admiral Janeway's timeline, going forward, would be her absence from it. Anything more, would be entirely speculative. Just my two cents.
I bet, reintegration is just chronobeaming the person on Relativity to the very position of his or her "real self" on the time line. So Braxton takes a dump and the Relativity crew beams the correlation Braxton into the shitting one. Reintegration.
Even with an incursionfactor by .0036, the timeline has been altered. On a universal scale, that's too much. But in case of canon, the golden show-rule counts "...what you see is what you get." "Try to avoid time travel." An advice any writer should take.
3:40 "Voyager shows up on our sensors too often. Try to avoid time travel".
Captain Janeway: "I'll leave that up to Admiral Janeway".
I suppose it technically wasn't Voyager that time travelled in Endgame...
@@RichO1701e Good point!
@@RichO1701e I wonder if their "sensors", literal or figurative, are sensitive enough to detect that Voyager in "Endgame" turned the invention of multiple technologies into a closed time loop.
The original "that's Future Me's problem."
Goddammit, Barry Allen!
"Try to avoid time travel?" *nods*
...*uses time travel to get Voyager back home*
Yep lol
Well, she tried. She tried and she failed, but what did you expect from her, she is only human? I mean, time travel is for Janeway like smoking is for a regular person: addictive and hard to stop.
Maybe when Admiral Janeway travels back to get Voyager home she prevents more damaging incursions from Voyager getting home naturally.
The writers wrote themselves into a corner with Relativity. When Admiral Janeway went to the past, Relativity was nowhere to be found despite drastic changes to the future.
Oxe! Yoshi! Or maybe that particular jump was always intended to occur, and the 25th century was like, "I'll allow it since we owe them one."
Janeways eyerolling is the funniest thing ever
Exactly 😂😂
Very true 😂
I absolutely love it, makes me laugh every scene she does it 🤣
Eyeroll... it looks closer to a stroke.
somebody needs to do a gif of that.
Moral of the story: time travel is a headache, so don't do it.
I do not get the issues some people have. It is just a handfull of alternate timelines.
Once you accept that the cause can be in a alternate timeline and the reaction in yours, it becomes trivial. Not harder then any other Multiverse theory.
I'm sure Janeway said something about time travel being a headache back in the Future's End two-parter. XD
@@DanielS2001 Admiral Janeway or Captain Janeway?
Because I am sure the Admiral got over her headaches.
And never and I mean NEVER piss off Cptn Janeway or you’re dead.
Unless it can be used to rip the Borg a new arsehole .. in-which case, go nuts!
"Remember the Temporal Prime Directive. Discuss your experiences with no one."
7 of 9 whispers to Janeway, "Who are you going to tell first?"
"I'll put it in my memoirs."
"Or should I say backward"
"don't get started"
god I love Janeway.
It looks like kate Mulgrew's issue with Jeri Ryan snuck its way into film
"See you in the 24th century."
"I look forward to it..."
"I hate temporal mechanics" is still one of my favorite lines in star trek ever
I'm picturing them in her ready room in front of a whiteboard with different colored markers trying to figure out what had just happened.
I like Seven in a Starfleet Uniform, she looks like part of the crew
Sir, I believe you have missed the point completely.
Contrary to Troi, Seven never went to Starfleet Academy, was even never graduated at any school since she was assimilated at 6 yo.
A uniform requires the academy training and if she had applied to the trainee admition program, she could have just worn the same kind of cadet like uniform as Wesley, which would have been if not completely the same, just little less sexy than the cat suit.
Once and for all; Does 7/9 look sexier in a uniform? No, Was it more morally appropriate for her to wear a uniform? Possibly, but then again, it would have taken for Janeway, Chacotay, B'elanna, Harry and Tuvok to mount an official training to earn her the right to wear one.
And since she got all the Starfleet knowledge with the Borg Collective, she's already as skilled, ( if not even more because the Borg doesn't only assimilate Starfleet officers) as a Starfleet officer.
They still could have designed a more appropriate civilian outfit, they would have done it since they demonstrated to have good taste on other outfits throughout the franchise.
But of course the "attracting new audience" defcon button was on...
And she still looks good in a more standardized uniform -Starfleet pyjamas style uniforms were always better looking on women, even on Discovery, the first Starfleet Uniform that looks kinda bad both on men and women was the Picard one)
Wish she stayed on the time ship Relativity
Was there ever an episode where they met an alternate Annika? Who wasn't assimilated?
@@quoniam426 the one worn in flashbacks or the oen that looks like it’s a Kelvin timeline reinterpretation of the voyager/ds9 uniform
1:49 Janeway.exe has encountered a problem and needs COFFEE.
Will she settle for Java, or with that voracious sex appetite of hers, does she need Python?
@@jameswasil There wasnt enough coffee in the alpha quadrant for that one.
@@Hyperion5182 Lol probably not, but if she's hungry, she can get coffee later and have sushi for lunch. I hear it goes well with the Tempura Prime Directive and a little bit of saki.
0xC0FFEE :P
@@Hyperion5182 Just one? There wasn't enough coffee in all four quadrants.
I love that little head shake future Janeway does at about 2:37 after her past self walks by. Like she's thinking, "This is just too weird."
she always thought she was way too uptight
She was probably thinking "That hair style was awful, what was I thinking"
Anyone else feel bad for the past Braxton? He never showed any sign of being convinced by his future self and tried to capture himself before he was arrested, but he still gets treated like a criminal.
I think it works with the overall, uh, "zany" tone of the episode. Pretty much the only moment of it that's treated as entirely serious is the confrontation between "present" Seven and "past" Janeway in the corridor. Otherwise, Braxton's misfortune comes off more like Wile E. Coyote than tragedy.
The younger Braxton was basically a victim of the grandfather paradox caused by his older self's actions. It sucks because usually consequences happen after someone does something, not before.
Maybe they got inspired by the movie Minority Report
I mean if you are going to put your entire carrier in the temporal field you have to commit to it and own your mistakes. Past or future ones.
I am sure past Braxton’s situation will be accounted for at the trial.
Mulgrew's facial expressions when she's beamed aboard Relativity are outstanding. Makes the whole scene.
@aaronjg682, Kate Mulgrew was a true actress in the older, I think more authentic, sense. I don't know that many of them exist nowadays.
Guaranteed to make me laugh every time!
When she says "let's just get started before my headache gets any worse." she looks like she's in the middle of a stroke... They couldn't have found anyone better for the role. Love her as Captain Janeway.
Why do I love the part where she reacts to her past self giving that ensign orders while walking confidently down the hall? It’s like she got caught up in the crisis, shrugged it off, and then thought, “Focus, Janeway, on the current task at hand!”
This is what the next step in a Star Trek series should have been...
about the timeship Relativity and its crew!
Indeed ! Then they can use so much 'old' episodes clips , from all former series ! like DS9 , Voyager , TNG , etc
With all the good CGI nowadays , they can really make a good looking serie , with exiting story's !
I AM ALL FOR IT !
That is something I would pay for.
aramanth that sounds like a nightmare to write.
aramanth it is a Wells Class science vessel from the 29th century. 31st century ships are bigger on the inside. Time Lords must have joined the Federation between the 29th and 31st centuries.
Star Trek Online has you interact with a timeship from time to time, the USS Pastak. There are also some snippets of information from a Cardassian tactical officer from on a timeship you can get access to which describe some of their missions. Mainly it is them thwarting plots from Temporal Cold War goons, from Star Trek Enterprise. My favorite one is about temporal terrorists trying to do something at DS9, I can't remember exactly what, but by the time the timeship crew got there to apprehend the subjects they found them dead with Garak leaving the room containing the bodies. It is highly implied that Garak "handled" the situation himself.
Janeway: How are you guys not insane doing this job?
Timeship crewmember: Bold of you to assume were not all constantly screaming internally.
I love Janeways look when she realises she's been cornered into volunteering, also seen when Paris needed someone to play Queen Arachnia in 'Bride of Chaotica'
I love Bride of Chaotica. They played it perfectly
It's the look of someone who's spent plenty of time getting pulled into annoying side tasks they really can't refuse. I know it well...
Love the way Janeway’s eyes move at 1:50 when she says “Let’s get this over with before my headache gets any worse”
Comet5551 That's exactly how
I feel about the Trump administration.
BILL MURRAY Awwwww that's cute.......... Still can't get over you liberals lost?........
+David Horgan
And what the hell are you Alt-Right nuts doing here watching Star Trek clips? The _Star Trek_ franchise is a Liberal utopia.
JanetFunkYeah First I'm not alt right. Second. Where do I begin? I can honestly say that a dream Liberal world would be beautiful. BUT it could never work in reality. For instance liberals believe they can just ban guns and criminals wouldn't use them. Or people just use Welfare for temporary hard times in their lives and not as a primary income source. That would be nice. But doesn't happen. It's like true communism. Works great on paper, but can't work in reality.
This is why you idiots are losing everyone that disagrees with you is alt-right its as meaningless now as the playground insult of calling someone gay. Which by the way their are a lot of gay conservatives if you would get your head out of your ass.
*1:50*
Right? Such a perfect transition!
And right at 1:52, how she's glancing right at the camera; priceless comedy genius.
I guess I missed what's so funny about it.
"Remember the temporal prime directive, talk about your experiences with no one."
Got it. Tell everyone.
My ending to this scene:
Time Agent: "...Try to avoid Time Travel."
Janeway: "You say Voyager pops up on your sensors too often? I have a one-word answer to that charge."
Time Agent: "Oh?"
Janeway: "Kirk"
Time Agent: "Touche"
Sisko: "Yah I shook Kirk's hand on the bridge in the 2260s"
Temporal Investigations guy 1: "You what?"
Temporal Investigations guy 2: "Kirk, what a menace"
Temporal Investigations guy 1: "What?"
Sisko: "Yah, Anomaly + Darwin=Kirk. Also...Picard..."
Picard: "Bruh, you try fighting Devians and Borg going back in time to end Earth. Also, Nexus... ya, Kirk..."
Kirk: "Come on, yall try getting two extinct whales from the past to prevent a bloody whale probe from ending Earth. Also blame McCoy for becoming high and going through the Guardian of Forever..."
Agent Daniel: "ok this is going out of hand"
Archer: "Why did you bring me here Dan?"
Agent Daniel: shrugs
Burnham: comes in with her angel sht. "Well.."
Everyone: together "Shut up!"
@@salilbhatnagar like the weird musical episode in every show
except most of Voyager's time issues are because of the time police so they need to look at themselves
@@salilbhatnagar But I thought Picard broke the temporal time directive more times than Janeway. yep to my recall, he did, as well as the prime directive.
@@salilbhatnagar The concept of Picard saying "Bruh" has me in fucking tears
“or should i say backward?”
seven LOVES puns and plays on words. it’s like her favorite thing. nobody ever talks about her sense of humor, but it’s her most humanizing trait (besides her obvious social anxiety and panic disorder. and autism.)
she’s constantly cracking jokes but nobody ever laughs at them. and it reads to me as if she knows exactly how she sounds- she delivers her jokes in the same kind of robotic, beaurocratic tone she usually speaks in. she uses her own inflection as a part of the humor- the fact that you wouldn’t expect her to be making a joke seems to be part of the punchline for her. she shares this trait with the funny vulcans.
Reminds me of a quote I read in a story once... "Anyone who hasn't gotten a headache while contemplating temporal paradox does not truly understand the concept."
As someone who has once tried to map out the Dragonball universe timelines out of sheer boredom, I can confirm: It is the quickest route to a self-inflicted migraine.
@@tanall5959 Just try making sense out of the Legend of Zelda timeline. Oof
Seven looks hotter in a proper uniform than in those silly catsuits.
hmm... lol, I'm not so sure.
nope I so disagree Seven was extremely hot in the catsuit and looked downright hidious/ugly in a uniform
Gotta love a woman in uniform.
I don't know that she looked hotter in the regular uniform but she is beautiful enough she would look good and almost anything.
She would look hot even without any clothes!
I love how intolerant Janeway is with trying to understand time travel and that she just goes with it. LMAO
Janeway's reaction to Time stuff is always great!
Time agent: avoid time travel if you can Admiral janeway: I’m about to end this mans whole career and get voyager home quicker and sacrifice myself killing the Borg Queen!!!!
I hated this show and the ending was just fucking ridiculous.
@@TheH3dgie
Bitch
that wasn't even he first time the use timetravel to save the voyager
@@TheH3dgie The show was originally supposed to pick up the dark theme from DS9 and have the marquis and starfleet crews always at odds, but they integrated them too soon, and gave a happy ending.
@@sarfaraz.hosseini Yep. I know. Ronald Moore wanted it darker, Berman wanted kindergarten Star Trek. Moore left and created Battlestar Galactica which featured everything he wanted to do with Voyager, and it was a far far far superior series
"See you in the 24th century."
"I look forward to it. Or should I say backward?"
Funniest line ever. Really shows how Seven of Nine really can be funny when she wants to be.
"Don't get started."
"It appears Voyager is not ready for assimilation"
Just give the Captain coffee and she might be willing to talk about temporal paradoxes without risking an headache.
OneofInfinity yes coffee black
@@Dancestar1981 Make that Rhaahhtegino, the Klingon blend brewed from the finest beans semi digested from tarrgs.
"Try to avoid time travel." Yeah right.
No kidding. They should have had the time ship Relativity appear in the series finale.
"Yeah, I'll avoid time-travel, unless I decide to use to it in the far future to get Voyager home much earlier for the sake of an awesome series finale."
Robert Currie though it wasn’t a great finale. They get back to Earth, but nothing after that.
I agree Yeah like that is going to happen..
LBF522 Can anybody out there name
Every Star Trek episode from All the Series that dealt with
Time Travel?
Anybody Dare to Try?
"Like they say in the temporal mechanics department, There is no time like the present" - Adml. Janeway
"I get the feeling im about to be drafted"
her entire body language of 'Ohhhhhhh No.' as she turns around to deliver the line was hilarious!
Doctor McCoy just prior to STTMP.
@@kurtsnyder4752 "Why is every object we don't understand always called 'a thing??!'"
@@Doctor_Robert (Laughing emoteicon)
Life is so boring and depressing these days. Watching Star Trek cheers me up in ways I don’t think anyone understands, I appreciate these actors and series makers so much.
_"Relativity"_ . One of my favorite episodes of _Voyager._
1:50 I love the eye thing Janeway does, even I would be confused given the circumstances
2:38 is like "Was I really like that thos years ago?" or simply just the weird sensation of seeing her younger self, which sort of fits perfectly because at the end of Voyager, she also encounters her older self too
The quick edit away to the next scene while Janeway is still making faces is what makes this so funny.
A wonderful example of how Seven could have been in uniform through out the series instead of the ridiculous cat suit.
No, that catsuit was part of her character. And she was damn hot in it.
I think she was hotter in the uniform.
Personal taste.
If by ‘ridiculous’, you mean ‘sexy’.
Kind of enjoyed the cat suit
Cat suit wins.
I love the transporter effect.
"Try to avoid time travel" like any of the times they had to deal with time travel was their fault
dragonseyeangie
Well when she came back in the last episode it was for fault.
And nobody who watches the time line did anything about it. But anytime Voyager itself ended up traveling through time, Braxton was always there. The year of hell doesn't count, since they don't actually travel through time, just dealing with aliens that are manipulating it.
dragonseyeangie yeah if Braxton had actually looked at his sensors in Future’s End he wouldn’t have gone back in time
I have one word for you: endgame
@@pioneer_1148 TVA.
This has always been one of my favorites.
"Since none of your time jumps were to the future..."
"What did you say this ships was called, again?"
i wondered this too, how did she know the name of the ship when she was beamed on board, i dont remember them reveling it to her at any point of the jumps
@@shailathunderbird5319 I believe she was remembering the events of Future's End, although that is unusual in and of itself, given the Berman Era's near-phobic avoidance of continuity.
It was actually "Since none of your time jumps were to your *foreseeable* future." In other words, to points in their own lives they could then alter with the knowledge. Not much damage they could do with just the knowledge of a ship's name from five hundred years in their future.
1:50 I love that smash cut barely within a microsecond of Mulgrew getting her line out 🤣
Hmm, a transporter that transports targets through time... the mishaps with that can fill so many seasons alone
maybe cuz the transporters on ships like the USS Relativity several times more advanced and were designed that way for a ship of its century for temporal transport.
Assignment: Earth (ST:TOS)
I like how the Janeway of that era and her assistant (and possibly others) just wander past a wounded crewman lying in the hallway and either don't see it or completely ignore it.
Seven's expression at 0:45 with the big blue eyes and the pouty lips is just screaming, "sorry Mom."
I’ve always loved the sudden cut to Voyager being casually attacked again.
"Voyager shows up on our sensors too often. Try to avoid time travel"
James Tiberius Kirk enters the chat...
“ there’s coffee in that nebula”😂
Intense chase scene interrupted by a game of ping pong. Oh Star Trek. I love you.
*immediately cuts to starship phaser fight*
Janeway: AHHH... that's better than aspirin.
Seven/Jeri Ryan in a Starfleet Uniform is perfection
02:39 she is like look how bad my hair was
I like that "time to avoid time travel" when 99% of the time it's just something that happens to them, and there's no way they could have avoided it.
The timeline with too much time travel was the kind of timeline avoided by him saying that, I suppose.
Just what I was thinking.
Most of the time they can't avoid it that easily.
I'm guessing the only reason the Relativity didn't get involved in the series finale is likely because in the original timeline, they had more time travel shenanigans in the decades before they finally reached Earth, so future Starfleet was probably like: "One temporal violation to erase several others? We'll allow it."
The way it was written up in the books was "That was how it was supposed to happen." Basically a preview of the same line of reasoning the TVA used when they didn't interfere with the Avengers.
Thank you for finally justifying what I originally thought was an unethical use of time travel in "Endgame".
This was the focus of several major story events Star Trek Online, if you're willing to accept apocrypha canon.
There's a fair amount of time-travel that occurs in STO. Not too surprising in an MMO story. But at one point a race of aliens in the future starts to protest the future signing of the Temporal Accords. This alien race is the Na'kuhl, the same aliens that appeared for 2 episodes in ST:Enterprise.
STO fleshed out the Na'kuhl's story and made them a lot more sympathetic. The Na'kuhl had lost their homeworld when their star went supernova due to a running temporal battle between a Kal Dono and the Tholians, who were trying to steal the Tox Uthat (ST:TNG). They were caught in the crossfire of a time-travel fight they weren't involved in, and their civilization never fully recovered.
The Na'kuhl were protesting because they viewed the Federation-Klingon-Romulan alliance as hypocritical for attempting to restrict the use of time-travel to change the past when they've used it to save themselves countless times, and were now turning around to prevent anyone else from doing the same, especially when the Na'kuhl homeworld was destroyed as a direct result of someone else using it. The Alliance judged that they needed the timeline to proceed exactly as it had in order to preserve the order of events, which means they indirectly judged that the destruction of the Na'kuhl homeworld was a necessary sacrifice.
"Why does your civilization get to be saved, but not our's?!"
The Na'kuhl become a major villain across several STO story arcs, tying into the Temporal Cold War of ST:Ent. They try to do everything they can to save their homeworld, up to and including destroying the Federation. While the player, representing the future Federation-Klingon-Romulan alliance, tries to stop them.
The unfortunate implication of the story is that, yes, the Federation has timeships to protect the timeline. But, they're protecting the timeline in their own self-interest. They might believe they're doing some good, and in many cases they probably are, but they are not immune to unilaterally letting some time-travel occur in order for their own desired timeline to remain intact.
According to one of the books, Admiral Janeway's temporal incursion created the chain of events that put the future on the path that they were from. She got a bye on that one.
"That's about as much curvature as you're going to get from a time travel story."
- Rick Sanchez, 2019
Just another day for Kathryn.
"We are Starfleet. Weird is part of your job!" - Janeway to Kim.
Seven, you disrupted the time line with your infernal ping pong game!
We must rewrite the past, or all the ping pong balls in the galaxy will be simultaneously transported to Marty McFly's home room at Hill Valley High School in the year 1985!
Irrelevant
Janeway resisting the urge to give an order to Torres in order to protect the timeline. Nice.
That last interaction they had on the transporter pad felt like their rumored real life relationship on set.
“ don’t get started…. I don’t want another headache.”😂😂
I love 7 of 9's snark right at the end. 😆😆😆😆
I love the fast cut from "Before my headache gets any worse" to the battle scene. Fast cuts are so underused for humour.
I like how in the end they recongize that, yeah, braxton is right that Voyager messes with time travel too much.
I like Captain Janeway. Though I've never done it, the thought of time travel gives me a headache.
Those two made for an interesting pair.
The *"Temporal Enforcement Cop",* is clearly "warning the wrong party", when he sends Janeway, and Seven, back to their respective points in the timestream! The only reason Voyager show up on the Temporal Enforcement Police Scans, is *due to other Time Travelers, seeking out Janeway and Co.!*
jeri ryan is just perfect
"None of your time jumps were to your foreseeable future..."
said the bloke IN THEIR FUTURE.
Time jumping episodes are my favorite in Star Trek. Our family nicknames them "Headache Episodes".
2:37 "I can't believe I thought *that* hairstyle was a good idea."
How dare you slander the Bun of Steel 😂
People tend to forget that Relativity/Braxton appears whenever people from Relativity's time try to alter future. The timeline where Relativity exists is post-Endgame, therefore the timetravel in Endgame led to their timeline. Relativity messing with Endgame events is them messing with their own past.
Captain Janeway : Since my first day on the job as a Starfleet captain I swore I'd never let myself get caught in one of these godforsaken paradoxes - the future is the past, the past is the future, it all gives me a headache
2:38 "Christ, glad I changed from that bun hairdo a couple years ago."
I thought all he hairdos looked great on her.
Even to this very day I know which season is which according to her hairstyles😅
Probably the BEST reaction in Star Trek history EVER.
Jon Z I have to strongly disagree. Watch Renaissance Man. Near the end, when the Doc is rendering his anticipated last chance mea culpas (they're all hilarious), Seven's reaction to his admission of long hidden ardor for her, is a fantastically realized mix of incredulity and a barely repressed laughter explosion. Wonderfully, we get a lovely twofer, as B'Elanna's response is a characteristically sarcastic, stone faced, "yeah, right, give me a break" put down.
The series, has myriad contenders, like Chakotay's pained expression in being stuck with Neelix as his search partner, and subsequent reaction to the latter's request for relationship advice, in Twisted.
But I still find my first inclination to be the most persuasive.
@@mitchellmelkin4078 didn't every crew member try and get some alone time with N'elix , and it would have been awesomeness if the Doctor teamed up with N'elix to try and cheer up the crew with comedy routines every time they were under attack, so basically every episode
@@pyrodiscoflash6115 , Despite his laudable ability to render genuinely sagacious and compassionate counsel to whoever might be in need, I think that many in the crew would find their exposure to his comedic chops, sufficiently satisfied, by having to view Briefing with Neelix/Good Morning, Voyager!!!🙄🙄🙄
@@mitchellmelkin4078 it definitely would have been a incentive to get back to Starfleet space asap, also the Doctor should show up in different attire from his adventures in HollowDeck Hallucinations with Doc, helping the crew getting thru
Janeway was the most entertaining Captain in my humble opinion.
"Let's get started before my headache gets worse!"
That was a perfectly timed jumpcut after janeway’s line 😂😂😂
I'm quite certain that Janeway and Seven were quality time together.
Seven of nine its 69 time.......again
Lotta femslashy fanfictions out there.
@@kurtsnyder4752 Nauseating.
@@FireLordJohn3191 Only those that try to have something that never had even a whisper of possibility. The square/round thing (and I DON'T mean in any sexual way on that imagery). Though if the fictions were of an invented(oc originalm character to use the terminology) one the result would be acceptable. The same thing is with the Benoist Supergirl and McGrath Lena Luthor in what is known as "SuperCorp". Of course if there is SOMETHING there like in Xena and Gabrielle and maybe Callisto, then they go all out on the tale.(That's TALE not TAIL, getcher mind outta da gutter!).
1:50 one of the top 10 lines said in all of Star Trek.
My favorite episode. Always wished they had a series based on the Relativity ship.
Great clip! One of my favorite episodes of Voyager. I always love the time travel episodes. My favorite 👍
"The future ain't what it used to be." -- Yogi Berra
Like Troi, Seven looked awesome in Starfleet blue.
Temporal Criminal law must be a hell of a legal field
Bruce McGill must be an actual time traveler because he seems to keep working on shows as a time traveler.
“Try to avoid time travel.”
“Haha Klingon time device goes brrrr”
Love it when she looks at her former self and shakes that head, as if to give her disapproval of that bun.
Fun scene, the timeship relativity is awesome😊
“See you in the 24th Century.”
“I look forward to it. Or should I say backward?”
“Don’t get started.”
I am a Trekkie cat and I love her cat suit.
How to understand timetravel:
Either you do or you don't. It's that simple.
have to be open to the many schools of thought on it, as well as any possible consequences.
"I look forward to it. Or is that backwards to it"....great line for Seven there. She actually told a joke...
They should have kept 7of9 in the uniform for the remainder of the series!
Everyone who is normally in a catsuit looked much better in uniform. Troi, Kira (yeah, many of her Bajoran outfits were very catsuity) and T'Pol (not only mirror universe, but when she wore Starfleet standard in "Twilight" (ENT).)
Lord Debrick looks cute.
One of my favorites!!!
I’m with Janeway. Time travel gives me a headache.
Funny time travel is how the show finished up
that wasn't time travel, that was wormholes
@@suzukispider No, that was time travel AND wormholes.
Voyager made it home...at extreme cost. Janeway, having aged into an old steely grey battleaxe, decides she no longer gives any fucks. She takes torpedoes and a new armor tech back to Voyager, just as they are leaving a Borg Transwarp Hub, the Janeway at that time deciding it wasn't worth the risk.
Old Janeway fits up the ship, then remains behind to clean up the evidence. She "sows a little discord amongst order", resulting in a massive Borg setback, including the loss of the Hub. We have reason to believe that she doesn't survive the experience.
Young Janeway gets home, and promoted to Admiral. Everybody actually survives this time around.
SigmoidStatue6, Not really funny, as much as predictable, unimaginative, and unfortunate. Instead of taking the understandable, but ho-hum choice of Voyager's return being wholly centered around Janeway (two of them, yet) and the Borg, some creative and redemptive thought might have been, at least, considered, in having the series arc come full circle, as the mechanism employed. Alright, the Borg certainly could have served as the nemesis, but instead of relying on time travel's iteration of Janeway, providing a bag of future technology to provide the means of escape (along with all the drama spent on 2 Janeway's in conflict), the dilemma might have been presented as truly existentially dire and seemingly inescapable for Voyager.
Instead, salvation could come from creatures whom have abilities that are superior to anything that the Borg can muster, finally, in opposition. No, not the Undine, but rather, and so appropriately, in an organic and logical sense, the Ocampa, specifically Kes.
Rather than having wasted her return to the series, as was essentially the case, the final scenario might have been thoroughly conceived, far in advance. So as not to have Kes pop out of thin air, to act as a deus ex machina that would not only save the crew from death, but allow them to get home as well, the same crisis that bedeviled her in Fury, could have been utilized, as a parallel plotline. However, rather than having the confusion and dislocation of her post-transformation experience, inflicted on Voyager, an alternate and similarly cogent source for her recovery, could have been provided by an encounter with Suspiria, whose rather implausible years' long absence from the series would rightly be resolved, by her returning, at the end. Despite Kes having defeated her intention of destroying Voyager in Cold Fire, the realization that Suspiria was simultaneously exposed to, i.e., that Janeway et al. were not the malevolent lot that caused her mate's demise, would coherently, have quelled any enmity that she might have harbored. So, in coming across Kes at such a disordered and falsely imagined stage in her life, Suspiria, rather than Janeway, could have acted as the agent of calm, recollection, and reconciliation that Kes was in such desperate need of, an act not of mere plot convenience, but as a symbolic squaring of the circle, for the devastation that she and the Caretaker had inadvertently wrought on Ocampa, ages before.
Hence, freed from the solipsistic trap that had so narrowed her vision and the full range of her cognition, Kes would be in a position to sense the grave peril that Voyager was facing, that in the meantime, Janeway had been able to stave off, but to no real effective possibility of averting eventually succumbing to.
Whether the escape dimension of the presence of the Hub had been revealed at this point of the plot, could have been finagled in some manner. But, the Queen's seemingly inexorable role of Voyager's executioner, would be confronted and overwhelmed, not by a simulacrum from the future wielding a debilitating virus, but instead, by a real character, who, out of love for those that had become her family, and whose sacrifice had saved her race, while stranding themselves from home, for an indefinite future, and in so doing, bring the full dimensions of the series, to not only an unerringly valid denouement, but a movingly emotional one, as well. Whether Kes might have survived that duel with the Queen, and gone on with Voyager on the last leg of the trip home, would have been a decision that, legitimately, could have been argued with reasonable vigor, from both ends, but, perhaps, one of the great disappointments, voiced by many, of the actual Endgame realization, could have been remediated, with some inclusion of scenes depicting the crew's being greeted, at least, on the only planet, that they had longed to see again.
Such might have been an outline of a genuinely merited ending to Voyager, rather than the pat, safe, and trope filled story, albeit, with bells and whistles of differing sorts, galore, that the audience was given, after 7 long years. Would such a concept have conceivably been foreseen to have the type of appeal (read ratings potential), that the eventual product would be anticipated to? Almost certainly not, even conceding a certain percentage of the show's loyal followers would have perceived how well met, in so many ways, this sort of creativity might have been unquestionably satisfying. Obviously, and with real justification, both B & B and the network, as any other, would desire as popular a finale as could be managed. Still, looking at the scenario from the point of view, that realistically, I believe, bespoke a more than slight irrelevancy that any conceivable ratings success would play in redeeming what had been an endeavor with a years long declining following (however, the numbers truly illustrated that), and one that had been likewise known, would not continue in any form afterwards (movies being out of the question), why not have taken a gamble, in bringing this arc, compromised as it had been, in what it might have come to represent in the ST ouevre, to an end that would have been so much more fulfilling, honest, and resonant, in a way that few programs choose to make manifest?
Reintegration sounds like a pretty morally ambiguous concept.
I think it depends on what reintegration *is.* The reason there are three Braxtons during this scene is because they're all on the Relativity at the same time. If they send them back to the moments before they time traveled in the first place, then in any given moment, there is only one Braxton and none of them are hurt or destroyed. I think that's what "reintegrated" is supposed to mean. I mean, Seven of Nine is going to be reintegrated as well, but there is only one Seven on the ship, so it's not like she ceases to exist because she merges with another one. She is simply sent back to her correct time. Braxton is probably a special case because he already exists at a point in time where they can basically have three trials for the same person "at the same time," but in reality they exist at different points in time.
@@Adam-ni6ne That makes the most sense.
@@Adam-ni6ne I still feel bad for the first Braxton. He was trying to stop the destruction of the Voyager, not knowing that his future self was the bad guy. So this Braxton was innocent but still punished for something he never had the chance to do, despite two versions of him actually doing it.
Basicly, there should be three trials
1 Braxton: Innocent. He didn't do anything bad but actually tried to help
2 Braxton: Guilty for time travel and almost destroying the Voyager (Caught by Seven)
3 Braxton: Guilty for time travel and planning to destroy the Voyager. (Caught by Janeway)
To be honest, the whole Relativity plot is full of holes. Braxton tried to save the future from being destroyed by destroying the Voyager. So he went back in time (present) but ended even further back in time (past) with the Voyager. So he was the reason why mankind evolved faster than possible (because of his ship) and was left on Earth when the Voyager tried to save Braxton's future.
By doing so, another Braxton appears and everything seems fine, except that the first Braxton still is on Earth. In theory, the Relativity (or a different ship) should have fixed this mistake (and many other ones.) although it would have messed up the current timeline.
Then we got the whole Relativity episode ending with Janeway agreeing to be careful with the timeline. Of course, Admiral Janeway and future Kim ignored that and both of them changed the timeline without anyone caring. The whole Star Trek universe is more or less based on messing with the timeline (first contact with the Borg on Earth, Q giving Picard a second chance, Picard destroying manking, the whole new Star Trek universe with a young Kirk) but only the Voyager got in trouble.
The episode was good but the story should have been different. The whole Time Police plot doesn't work for Star Trek because many important events had only been possible because of messing with the timeline
@@Kanerudo , It's my interpretation, I understand, but, I don't claim the intellectual chops to have conceived of it individually, as I've heard many other folks relate the same thing, and I simply find it persuasive, so I subscribe to the contention.
Anyway, in opposition to the linear theory you're positing, there's no messing with THE timeline, going on at all, in any of these episodes. What is happening in Endgame, for example, due to Janeway's tinkering, is the creation of a wholly new and separate timeline, that exists out of any connection with the one she left. That Starfleet is aware of this, is implicitly implied by what Kim says, before she crosses over, just as was the case, with Laforge's dialogue with Chakotay, in Timeless. Neither gave any sense that existence in their own timeline, would be erased from existence if they weren't successful in stopping Janeway and Chakotay, respectively. Their concern was only related to some unpredictable and unknowable impact that the establishment of these divergent paths might cause, in their own. I would suggest that such a worry, was similarly illusory, as once such a divergence took place, there really shouldn't be any conduit or interconnectivity between the two, that could possibly to that sort of consequence. Each would proceed, as with highways that never converge afterwards, following whatever potential future, each would encounter, based on the self-contained actions, therein, occurring independently. The only undisputed change rendered in Admiral Janeway's timeline, going forward, would be her absence from it. Anything more, would be entirely speculative.
Just my two cents.
I bet, reintegration is just chronobeaming the person on Relativity to the very position of his or her "real self" on the time line. So Braxton takes a dump and the Relativity crew beams the correlation Braxton into the shitting one. Reintegration.
Mr. O'Brien (Miles O'Brien, that is) commented that temporal mechanics gave him a headache. Gotta say the gentleman has a point.
Even with an incursionfactor by .0036, the timeline has been altered. On a universal scale, that's too much. But in case of canon, the golden show-rule counts "...what you see is what you get."
"Try to avoid time travel." An advice any writer should take.
This was a great time traveling story
This has always been my fav Voyager episode
ONE OF THE BEST MOMENTS!!!!!
O love these guys.