Installing The Highest Flowing Most Expensive Air Intake Filters | BMW G80 M3 Sprint Filter

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  • čas přidán 7. 02. 2023
  • Installing The Highest Flowing Most Expensive Air Intake Filters G80 BMW M3 Sprint Filter. I have used these filters before on all my Alfa Romeos with great results and decided on doing this on the new M3 for performance and not bling. The aftermarket makes some beautiful but mega expensive carbon fiber air intakes but I am not building a show car and wanted performance and value over under hood bling which does not add value to me. If anyone is interested in this kit please send your inquiry through the Auto Fanatic website. We have filters coming in directly from Europe for these applications.
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Komentáře • 110

  • @tigerbiterhater
    @tigerbiterhater Před rokem +11

    Honestly intakes just for show. The oem intake still best for what it is. Keeping temp lower than these “Cold Air intakes or intake systems”. I’ll just get some nice filters like what you’re doing and call it a day. Save a lot money 💰

    • @autofanaticcars
      @autofanaticcars  Před rokem +1

      exactly glad you feel the same way,

    • @mushy1983123
      @mushy1983123 Před 11 měsíci

      Your right about the intakes I put intakes on my f80 m3 the ones that sit behind the grill and I gain zero power just makes induction noise from outside that's about it

  • @FreshlySnipes
    @FreshlySnipes Před měsícem

    I just did a similar install on my manual G80 but I went with the CarBahn high flow filter. After a few runs I notice a difference in engine RPMs, it’s much smoother. Dunno about power gains but it’s definitely breathing better.
    Thanks for the install video! I wouldn’t have been able to do it without watching this!
    I got a Valvetronic titanium mid-pipe on the way. Pretty excited to install that.

  • @g.dubyou6263
    @g.dubyou6263 Před rokem +3

    Eventuri for 6k miles. Haven’t had any idle issues and no lights. It also had a noticeable difference in throttle response. The very top end also seemed to feel much better. Watching the Speedo climb and climb.

  • @smooveoperatortr
    @smooveoperatortr Před rokem +3

    Love the OEM compatibility/seamless look. With as much power as these cars come with nowadays, I think the subtle upgrades like this make the big difference. Will be on the lookout for your upcoming stock.

    • @autofanaticcars
      @autofanaticcars  Před rokem +2

      glad you like this upgrade it feels amazing feel free to send us an inquiry through our website for more info and pricing.

  • @snowman2834
    @snowman2834 Před rokem +1

    Just used a flat head on my 23 and they popped out

  • @zachh8664
    @zachh8664 Před rokem

    Ive got the Spoon/Sprint P08 on my FK7 civic. Made a big difference. I run 21psi of boost and the filter makes it feel super smooth especially in the top end. The aftermarket intakes these days are pointless and only for sound.

    • @autofanaticcars
      @autofanaticcars  Před rokem +1

      yeah these filters are incredible. I removed my airbox last week after 3000 miles there was not a spec of dust in the airbox which means these filters really work. the skeptics will never understand unless they try them

  • @G82Watts
    @G82Watts Před měsícem

    Wooshing noise is amazing. Only reason id want one.

  • @justinphillips5043
    @justinphillips5043 Před rokem

    How much for the stelvio air filter from sprint?

  • @luisln4841
    @luisln4841 Před rokem +1

    I noticed you modified the wheel did you add the Alcantara wrap? if so can you sell that?

    • @autofanaticcars
      @autofanaticcars  Před rokem +1

      i do custom upholstery for customers all over the country and beyond if you wanted to do your wheel shoot me an email with your request, core wheels are very hard to find these days but for an automatic car you might find a core on Ebay

  • @SlumRacing
    @SlumRacing Před rokem

    Keep up the good work man!

  • @TheDizman
    @TheDizman Před 4 měsíci

    Hi, just got a 2024 G82 M4 Competition Xdrive. I’m like you in that it’s my daily driver, but I’d like to free up some hp without going overboard.
    I live in Phoenix where it is kinda general dusty at times and we get dust storms. I was wondering if you’d still recommend the high end filters you used or if maybe I should go for their “normal” ones (P08 was it?).
    Wasn’t sure how good those high end ones are at blocking dirt/dust, since you can see thru them! Thought I’d get an opinion before spending that much on air filters! Thx!

    • @autofanaticcars
      @autofanaticcars  Před 4 měsíci +1

      These filters are great but in your condition I would just clean them more often they made a substantial difference in throttle and midrange but there not cheap and very hard to get. We are currently out of stock again

    • @TheDizman
      @TheDizman Před 4 měsíci

      @@autofanaticcars Thx for the reply/advice. So how often would you suggest I clean them in an environment like Phoenix? I’ll probably end up putting 9k-10k miles a year on it, I only travel to the office 3 days week.
      Yea I saw them on Amazon for $700, not sure if that was the msrp or way high. The regular P08 set was like $260 from same seller

  • @Khemic
    @Khemic Před rokem +3

    I like that this filter is not over the top, seems it does it’s job very well and plays nice with the OEM intake hardware/electronics. Man that exhaust is wicked though 😆

    • @autofanaticcars
      @autofanaticcars  Před rokem +2

      Yes it does i wish you guys could hear this exhaust in person I am still scouting a proper location to shoot the exhaust video but not easy finding a large open space without being next to a highway with noise. the two Sprint race filters and Remus race completely transformed the M3 it boogies. Those carbon intakes are pretty but none of those brands show dynos and gains with their intakes alone they always shows piggyback and tunes combined which isn't fair for most who just want an intake for performance.

  • @JTAloft
    @JTAloft Před měsícem

    Any update on this filter and how it's performing? Is the clean side of the airbox still clean?

    • @autofanaticcars
      @autofanaticcars  Před měsícem +1

      Filter was flawless for a year then i sold the car

  • @randomchannel1712
    @randomchannel1712 Před rokem +1

    Actually, I have done some testing on sprint filters, well they are truly amazing,
    The F1-85 is really the one and only filter that can outperform a performance intake, they are on a league of their own.
    And I also have made some filtration testing and believe me they are ok, a video of my findings will come in due time.
    Obviously, they don't filter as well as paper (nor the P08 or F1-85 maybe the P037 does), but that doesn't mean their filtration capabilities are inadequate for daily use.
    So you are ok imho.

  • @lawrencemuscara6195
    @lawrencemuscara6195 Před 11 měsíci

    Hi Guys just purchased the Sprint Filter P08-F185. I have read through the specs and it details that aside from the superior air flow of which we know about it filters debris up to 85 microns. The stock filter only allows up to 10 microns. Would this cause a noticeable difference of wear and tear on the engine Overtime and shorten its lifecycle with every day use. I live in Oz. Any feedback?

    • @autofanaticcars
      @autofanaticcars  Před 11 měsíci

      no worries just enjoy the better performance

    • @lawrencemuscara6195
      @lawrencemuscara6195 Před 11 měsíci

      Just FYI in Oz we don’t have carbon filters which is good it means you don’t have to stuff around with removing them….

  • @BigThumpr1
    @BigThumpr1 Před rokem +2

    What did the car pickup number wise? Kies Motorsports did a before and after on their car, bone stock M3 Comp XDrive. Stock numbers 506whp/461wtq. After an MST intake, 518whp/472wtq. That’s a gain of 12whp/11wtq. For the price of those drop ins, you can have a 3.5inch intake system that shows gains in both horsepower and torque. You say that BMW did their intake for a reason, going off that theory you could say the same about the exhaust, but you upgraded that. $700 for drop in filters just to keep the factory intake piping and intake boxes is insane. Makes zero sense to upgrade only one part of the intake system.

    • @franklinwatson7767
      @franklinwatson7767 Před 8 měsíci

      Kies dyno reads a bit higher than other dyno's. Bone stock M3 Comp on a dynojet dyno reads between 465 whp and 497ish whp depending on the temp; but as far as the MST intake adding power, you're absolutely right...

  • @hg1496
    @hg1496 Před rokem

    Any drone with the Remus race exhaust?

    • @autofanaticcars
      @autofanaticcars  Před rokem

      very little in what i call the drone zone 2000-2700 RPM which i rarely sit, small displacement engine and huge pipes but it is so minimal that all you do is switch gears and your fine the #1 issue with these cars is the Active Sound Design, you MUST turn off completely otherwise most exhaust drone to unbearable levels. I will have a full exhaust video up soon but if you watch my last few videos of the M3 you can hear exactly how it sounds in the cabin as I talk and drive.

  • @cbruno12180
    @cbruno12180 Před rokem +2

    You should of done a test run with just removing the charcoal filter I’d bet you would notice a diff? What ya think phil

    • @autofanaticcars
      @autofanaticcars  Před rokem +2

      wasn't worth my time really ive done that in the past on a V8 and V10 car the removal of the charcoal is noticeable at first but removing the entire bottle neck in one shot was the goal the car feels incredible

  • @blakeslide6919
    @blakeslide6919 Před 7 měsíci

    Hey bro where did you get that suede steering wheel? Let me know, thanks.

    • @autofanaticcars
      @autofanaticcars  Před 7 měsíci

      I made it

    • @blakeslide6919
      @blakeslide6919 Před 7 měsíci

      @@autofanaticcars Came out amazing! Let me know if it's a sort of DIY kit. If you made it out of scratch you have some skills bro.

  • @edgarcorrado
    @edgarcorrado Před rokem +1

    Dyno numbers would have been nice to see the difference

  • @Top_g80comp
    @Top_g80comp Před rokem

    Iam looking at Remus ,please make a video and where to buy it 💯🤘🏻❤️

    • @autofanaticcars
      @autofanaticcars  Před rokem

      yes i will have a full video soon once i find a proper location to film the drove bys. the exhaust I have is not available in the USA and my company is now a dealer and we are importing these systems directly from REMUS Austria if interested send us an inquiry via our website

  • @pure7199
    @pure7199 Před 5 měsíci +1

    I need one for my g82 asap please let me get a link 🙏

    • @serkdamerc6236
      @serkdamerc6236 Před 5 měsíci

      @pure7199 try k&n air filter their really good I’ve got it on my g80 and my mates got it on his g82

  • @klasseact6663
    @klasseact6663 Před rokem

    What tires are you running on that car this winter?

    • @autofanaticcars
      @autofanaticcars  Před rokem

      Michelin Pilot Sport 4 all seasons they absolutely suck on this car on the Alfas, Porsche and AMG they work amazing on the M3 I hate them for some reason. I think this is based on the chassis design versus other cars we have installed these tires on. the M3 feels way better on P Zeros

    • @klasseact6663
      @klasseact6663 Před rokem

      @Auto Fanatic my car came w/Michelin Sport 4S' and there's NO WAY I could drive in cold weather. I got the car at the end of March 2022 and I had to white knuckle it a couple days. I've had Michelin X-ice's since the fall...AWESOME tires❗️

  • @ninjastar217
    @ninjastar217 Před rokem +4

    Check your airbox after 3 or 4k miles. We ran those Sprint filters on our motorcycles and they let way too much dirt and pollen blow past em. Keep ya eye on it.... Spirit filters belong in a screen porch door not any vehicle. My opinion backed by super dirty airbox. Use em at your own risk.... Ps.I would like to see a follow up video after 3k miles if you don't mind let's see how dirty the "clean side" of the airbox is

    • @autofanaticcars
      @autofanaticcars  Před rokem +2

      I ran the Sprint filters on both of my Alfa Romeo QV and Stelvio for over 4 years and the airboxes were spotless and I checked them very often I guess it all depends on the car maybe or the conditions your driving in. The M3 is so easy to check and I plan to check at every oil change at every 3k miles from here on, if there are any issues I will report back in a detailed video but for now I am enjoying the benefits.

    • @DippinItUp1
      @DippinItUp1 Před rokem +3

      Exactly, With air filters you either get great flow or great particle trapping but you cant have both. These filters are going to let way too much dirt through leading to possible premature turbo and/or engine wear.

    • @ninjastar217
      @ninjastar217 Před rokem

      @@autofanaticcars I found your channel looking at Alfa. Love the M3 Keep the videos coming. Maybe the ram air effect is more prominent on sport bikes but I'm not the only one reporting blow by. I made the switch to a DNA filter and it's spotless in there with the same performance as Sprint. Just thought I'd share my experience.

    • @autofanaticcars
      @autofanaticcars  Před rokem +1

      yes i was meaning to reply back regarding sport bikes since those motors have a RPM range of almost double of most cars i would assume they create much more vacuum on the induction side ti suck in dirt than most cars that have all the boxes and plumbing in place and this might be what you noticed. I remember with my old ATV I put one of those foam filters on the engine and it was trashed that I had to use this secondary fabric protector over it to prevent dirt and grass from getting in. I will keep everyone posted on this but from prior experience i was not too worried but time will tell.

  • @luisln4841
    @luisln4841 Před rokem

    I don't see mine as a show car either but that metal brace hurts my eyes so bad!!!! let us know if you will address that and how as every option Ive seen I don't like

  • @dennisajones9352
    @dennisajones9352 Před rokem

    They got one for a GT-350?

  • @jasinedward
    @jasinedward Před 9 měsíci

    Why are there no dyno test results for these? With the crazy price I would expect to at least see some justification other than it "feels better".

  • @cmlf1
    @cmlf1 Před rokem

    It's refreshing hearing someone state how the manufacturers spend significant time and money designing their systems and that the cone filters are more often than not a waste. I did a lot of work on BMW's with M30 engines back in the 90's and the cone filters and the K&N drop in panel filter may have made a couple of HP at redline, but drivability in real world conditions was significantly worse with cone filters and the panel filter had a fraction of the surface area and restricted airflow when dirty and did not increase filtering as claimed.
    These are high quality filters and the airboxes 30-40 years ago were well designed from the factory, so these I am sure cannot be easily improved on by a small aftermarket company.

    • @autofanaticcars
      @autofanaticcars  Před rokem

      yeah in the 90s we use to manufacture intakes for cars and on the dyno 90% of the time the cone filters lost power due to heat soak in the engine bay which nobody realizes. without isolating the engine bay temps your wasting your time. The OEM design their intakes around which is why flat panel filters are a great options for performance without going crazy.

  • @mrguillaa6601
    @mrguillaa6601 Před rokem

    Nice, do you have removed the fake engine sound ?

    • @autofanaticcars
      @autofanaticcars  Před rokem

      Yes it was not easy but i completed coded out the Active Sound Design i had to get a special BETA app from Bimmercode. With the ASD and my exhaust the drone and noise in the cabin was unbearable OMG there is like a hidden microphone somewhere under the car that amplifies the actual exhaust it was intense and annoying. When I disabled it i heard a loud POP as if the microphone was disconnected, i will post a short video on this soon of the process.

    • @mrguillaa6601
      @mrguillaa6601 Před rokem

      @@autofanaticcars Thanks, I absolutely HATE those fake engine sound ! In M5 F10 it was pretty simple to remove ... Waiting for the video ! Cheers from France !

    • @autofanaticcars
      @autofanaticcars  Před rokem

      it seems the 2022 late production and 2023 are the hard ones to fully remove ASD as the app is not fully developed yet and the prompts are totally different in Bimmercode. I think Porsche and Ferrari do a better job with the sound pipe from the engine being directed into the car instead of stupid microphone and sonic processing BMW does.

  • @williebrown2525
    @williebrown2525 Před rokem

    Would this void your Factory Warranty?

    • @autofanaticcars
      @autofanaticcars  Před rokem +1

      i highly doubt it but using oiled filters or front grill intakes most likely will. dealer will never need to access the airbox for any service or warranty work anytime soon on these cars.

    • @user-np9co2nm1z
      @user-np9co2nm1z Před rokem

      Stop letting the dealer make you feel like if you change something on the car the entire warranty is null and void. 10+ years in the industry for multiple manufactures I never saw it happen. What can happen is the dealer can decide they personally dont want to work on the car so they aren't liable for anything. How often do you hear of the warranty being void when a vehicle is in an accident? Toy with your car all you want and be a good customer and you'll have nothing to worry about.

  • @FreshlySnipes
    @FreshlySnipes Před měsícem

    What steering wheel is that?

  • @clarencewilliams61
    @clarencewilliams61 Před rokem

    Where you buy them

    • @autofanaticcars
      @autofanaticcars  Před rokem +1

      imported directly from Europe if your interested contact us we have more coming end of this month

  • @synergy2782
    @synergy2782 Před 8 měsíci +1

    You claim there are issues with K&N? I’ll stick with K&N before paying almost $700 for a totally ridiculous and absurd markup for a filters that from what I hear allows way too much dirt in.

  • @markb7000
    @markb7000 Před 2 měsíci

    I would NEVER run that Sprint Filter on the Street (P08F1-85), that filter is just for race use, ie when they rebuild the motors quite often. that filter will let pass anything smaller than 85 Microns, Stock Filters only let pass smaller than 10 Microns. I would only use the P037 on a road car (37 Microns). it's like letting in micro sand into your combustion chambers that will just prematurely ware out your rings and bore.

  • @Racedoc
    @Racedoc Před rokem

    I wonder what is going to happen to the warranty.

    • @autofanaticcars
      @autofanaticcars  Před rokem +1

      If your afraid of air filters ruining warranty sell the car and ride a bike instead.

    • @franklinwatson7767
      @franklinwatson7767 Před 8 měsíci

      LOL, absolutely nothing! if you blow the engine and need warranty work, a drop-in filter is the last thing BMW is going to investigate!

  • @pacoflyer
    @pacoflyer Před rokem

    I'd watch a dyno video. I put the orange one in the Wife's V60 polestar. Way more responsive. Considering these for my G80. People be bitching about filters and go look at an open turbo supra and be like Ooooh....😂

    • @autofanaticcars
      @autofanaticcars  Před rokem +1

      some skeptics in the comments feel these do not filter out dirt. well after several thousands of miles daily driving on these i removed the air box the other day. Absolutely zero dust inside the lower and upper air box. These filters are like magic no idea how they accomplished this.

  • @chrisjames2079
    @chrisjames2079 Před rokem

    id done some researcch on this and going by independent reputable tuners is that most modern day bmw intake box have gone through alot of R&D from the factory , id been looking to go eventuri, dahler, and mst myself but from what i could gather you were mainly paying for cosmetics . i will be going this route myself based off of research . ive spent 4K+ on exhaust mods but couldnt justify the overpriced intakes based on research, didnt make any sense .

    • @autofanaticcars
      @autofanaticcars  Před rokem

      yeah same here my exhaust cost $5k plus and these fancy intakes show minimal gains per dollar just makes no sense. If those carbon intakes proved a 30-40hp increase without ECU tuning on a dyno i would have one on the car by now.

  • @alexstealth27
    @alexstealth27 Před 2 měsíci

    For real you were expecting fuel economy from an M car??? 🤯

  • @luisln4841
    @luisln4841 Před rokem

    also I will be waiting when you have those filters in stock I want them

    • @autofanaticcars
      @autofanaticcars  Před rokem

      Hi Luis send us an email if you want to order these are very hard to get and we are preselling them prior to them arriving in a few weeks.

    • @luisln4841
      @luisln4841 Před rokem

      @@autofanaticcars sure I will do that asap

  • @Prodigy_ad
    @Prodigy_ad Před 8 měsíci

    I understand making money but almost $700 for suspect drop in filters? For the money I could get K&N drop in’s for $100 and a piggyback tune for $500 and still have money left over.

  • @chrisbradley3224
    @chrisbradley3224 Před 4 měsíci

    I’m personally not a fan of high flow filters. They always filter worse than OEM and I’ve seen high silicon in used oil analysis with DryFlow and K&N style filters. I’d rather protect the engine better than gain 0.25 HP.

    • @OneTwoThreePunch
      @OneTwoThreePunch Před 3 měsíci

      I agree, I have g80 comp x and all my friends are modifying saying it won’t matter… if something catastrophic happens BMW WILL figure it out. If I wanted a faster car I would buy a 911 turbo S. While tempting, keeping a car stock helps resale value and warranty.

  • @zd141
    @zd141 Před rokem +2

    and yet the stock air filters work just as well..."high flow" air filters are a scam 🤯

    • @autofanaticcars
      @autofanaticcars  Před rokem

      you have no clue yet your watching videos on high flow filters

    • @zd141
      @zd141 Před rokem +1

      ​@@autofanaticcars look at tests done by other CZcamsrs ...high flow air filters vs stock air filters..no difference in power or filtration.only difference is noise
      and it's you're not your

    • @autofanaticcars
      @autofanaticcars  Před rokem +2

      you just answered your own question your relying on youtubers not engineers looking to click bait to earn revenue. no youtuber tested this brand or style filter before in those videos on almost any car due to how hard they are to obtain and the cost. those videos are all about oiled cotton filters and oiled foam filters. if they all were a scam these companies would be out of business by now yet they continue to grow each year means those youtube videos did nothing to hurt sales.

    • @G82Watts
      @G82Watts Před měsícem

      Evanturi v2 has shown 15hp gain and has been dynoed. Even the project gamma and some other front mount intakes have been dynoed and got a HP boost. Ur clueless.

  • @gxp99
    @gxp99 Před rokem +1

    If all you want is airflow then ditch the filters all together, why pay so much money?
    There's barely any info on this filters actual filtering capability, its all airflow this airflow that. I'm sure you know that a filters airflow capability is directly proportional to its filtering capability and its a fine balance to have both, this filter most likely is only good in airflow while being terrible in its main job... to filter particles out of the engine. I wouldn't use this filter even if it was free.

    • @autofanaticcars
      @autofanaticcars  Před rokem +1

      you did not take the time to read the data. the filtration specifications are clear as can be on their website and other sources.

    • @gxp99
      @gxp99 Před rokem

      @@autofanaticcars ya there's some info about the threads of the filter being 22 micron thick and the spacing being up to 40 micron thick... which would completely fail an sae dust test that uses particles up to 20 microns in size. A paper filter stops 99% of these particles, this sprint filter would let 100% of the particles through.

    • @autofanaticcars
      @autofanaticcars  Před rokem +1

      I do not live in the desert or Middle East climatic conditons and Sprint makes a very specific filter for those dusty sandy conditions it is called the P037 which flows way less because of the tighter filtration pattern

  • @JT-wy3xl
    @JT-wy3xl Před rokem +1

    Lol this is a joke… $670 for filters that don’t filter properly. It’s very much “free flowing”

    • @autofanaticcars
      @autofanaticcars  Před rokem +1

      they filter damn fine and the car feels amazing with them. this is what I decided on mine and you do not need to agree with it.

    • @JT-wy3xl
      @JT-wy3xl Před rokem +2

      @@autofanaticcars 37 micron is just fine? Are you kidding? High-end filters flow well and filter down to 5 micron. This is a scam. Secondly the g80 is speed density tuned so power from an intake without a tune is unlikely.

  • @jeffl1944
    @jeffl1944 Před rokem

    Garbage does not wasting your money

    • @autofanaticcars
      @autofanaticcars  Před rokem +1

      please elaborate how you can say these are garbage? is it the price premium or actual engineering facts to prove your claim?
      i doubt you ever used these filters shown in this video as they are so hard to get

  • @klasseact6663
    @klasseact6663 Před rokem

    Phil..."most expensive", come on man, that's not really needed in this install video🤔

    • @autofanaticcars
      @autofanaticcars  Před rokem +1

      show me another pair of flat filters that cost over $600 pair so yes these are the most expensive flat panel filters you can buy period since everyone is so used to the $49 K&N

    • @klasseact6663
      @klasseact6663 Před rokem

      @@autofanaticcars No I am not doubting that but I just think it's a little tacky to mention expensive

    • @autofanaticcars
      @autofanaticcars  Před rokem

      not at all people need to know that when they go search and see the cost they will be in for quite a shock. the title of this video is 100% factual

    • @klasseact6663
      @klasseact6663 Před rokem

      @Auto Fanatic I'm quite shocked myself and it had better produce SOMETHING for that amount of 💰

  • @nickemangione
    @nickemangione Před rokem

    Engine bays just can't be beautiful anymore

    • @autofanaticcars
      @autofanaticcars  Před rokem

      I agree except a classic Ferrari or European and Muscle car those still look cool and have stuff to show off

  • @nexushexus4365
    @nexushexus4365 Před rokem +1

    Sprint filters are poor at filtering.

    • @autofanaticcars
      @autofanaticcars  Před rokem

      4+ years on both my Alfa Romeo QV , Stelvio and not a spec of debris in the factory airbox or inlet tubes do not believe what you read on forums as every filter and car will be different.

    • @nexushexus4365
      @nexushexus4365 Před rokem

      @@autofanaticcars Had a sprint filter on my 2.0L Giulia it left a dust film on the intake tube, and yes the filter was seated properly.

  • @amoni1959
    @amoni1959 Před rokem +1

    $670 for intake filters!? 🫢U trippin Phil. 😂

    • @autofanaticcars
      @autofanaticcars  Před rokem +3

      ha ha yes but i rather spend that than spend a few thousand on intakes from China that just look nice, like i said they make cheaper filter versions but I wanted the absolute best and there is a premium for these