Replace Just the Ball Joint Or The Entire Control Arm - Front Suspension Repair Tips
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- čas přidán 13. 04. 2016
- In this video we explore the age old question; Do I replace just the ball joint or the entire control arm. Let's weigh the cost/bennifeit along with an assessment of a different serviceable parts and make the best choice that is a balance of time and parts cost while keeping safety a priority. In this vid I mentioned another vid I produced that shows the actual process of repair. See that video here: • Replace Lower Ball Joi...
Thanks for watching! - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Thanks for the videos and knowledge sharing. I'm not rich so I had to buy an old car (2006 Hemi Durango), was 188k miles three years ago, it's now at 250 and will hopefully keep going.
I've been able to save a lot on repairs, thanks to you and a few other skilled youtube mechanics... Plus it feels good to do something by myself.
Many thanks.
You really hit the nail on the head when doing work for someone else, time is money. Yes, you can often replace individual parts for less money in regards to parts but it can easily end up costing more on labor. That's why things like Monroe quick-struts are popular, they are much faster to swap in and out and you don't have to dance with death trying to compress springs.
But if you are doing the job for yourself, replacing the ball joints and bushings can be better because you can get the parts for less or you can sometimes get better upgraded parts. It all boils down to if you have more time than money or if you need it done quick. Plus, people like to go straight for the cheapest parts... I would much rather spend a bit more for a good Moog part and have confidence it will last for years instead of being right back here again next year replacing the same cheap brand part.
The very best guy, fantastic knowledge. Also there is something about his approach, his communication, his sense of humor that makes each video such an entertaining experience.
How kind! Thank you for watching my vids!
My new favorite channel
Cool video. Just what I was looking for
Great video love your style....you are a badass mechanic...never change!
Just got an '04 Sierra 2500HD this weekend and you answered my question. I knew upper arms were easier to replace than the ball joint but I wasn't sure about the lower. Thanks.
I have an '02 Dakota Quad Cab. Just rebuild the whole front suspension in my driveway. I went with all 4 moog control arms which came with the ball joints & control arm bushings arm bushings pre installed. Also did the tie rods, steering links, and the stabilizer bar links. The ball joints had zerk fittings. The tie rods & stabilizer links didn't, so I drilled 7/32 holes, 1/4 x 28 tap & installed zerks on these. $360 delivered from rockauto. No regrets. Wasn't worth the chance of the greif it could have been. My truck now feels as tight as when I bought it new.
Thank you for all the videos very helpful
Heya's Doc - Great videos. Thanks for what you're doing. I learn a lot with each video i watch.
+Hawaiian F150 Forgot to ask where are you based out of what state city?
+Hawaiian F150 Anchorage, Alaska just a short flight from your location. I like to visit Kauai whenever I can! I have actually applied for manager positions at shops on the island. Would enjoy living there in the winter but really enjoy the summers here. Thank you for your support. Aloha.
THANKS FOR YOUR SHARING YOU SAVED ME SO MUCH MONEY
awesome!
guys and gals! thanks for your video on this. goodyear replaced lower control arm and ball joints and just found out from a different shop that goodyear stripped out both ball joints bolts and one bolt was so lose the wheel was flopping.
Sounds like a lawsuit to me gal.
@7:50
I had the shop repair manual on CD-ROM for my 1992 Ford Probe. Most of you all know that the chassis engine and transmission was Mazda MX6.
The manual strictly prohibited replacing the ball joints saying that the control arm could not withstand the force of a press.
And yet just before I watch this video I see ball joints for that car still for sale.
As always, great video. Your customers are lucky to have a guy like you to go to.
Thanks for the video and thumbs up.
Thank you so much.
I agree totally on the quality of Moog parts. I recently replaced my lower ball joints on my 2003 Silverado 2WD, and for the application it was much easier to replace the whole arm. The joints are riveted to the arm, which would require a lot of drilling to replace.
Good call. I would make more money off labor but it would end up costing the customer more just doing the joint in some cases and they get less bang for the buck. Thanks for dropping by the shop!
Great topic, I ask my friends and family this same question when working on their vehicles. They always say. “Whatever you think”. I do these same assessments that you talked about. Yes I am in the rust belt. 😡
:)
Thanks for the video. I have to replace a bunch of front suspension parts on my pathfinder and I was trying to decide if I should go ahead and replace the arms too. Might as well! Lol
Thank you for the thank you. I enjoy your videos very much. When I did my 2500HD I just replaced the upper ball joint. Next time I will replace control arm and all. Just would have been easier. And I am in the Pennsylvania rust belt. It sucks.
+The Disgruntled Mechanic I hear that rust never sleeps. Up here ice never melts. Thank you for the thank you for the thank you kind sir. Blessings to you.
+The Car Doctor haha! hey hey my my, according to Neil Young Rust never sleeps!
If you're a well versed and equipped diy'er, as I would consider myself, I like to keep the upper and lower arms and just replace bushings and ball joints. For less money you can buy superior (IMO) ball joints and bushings than the cost of new arms that typically have basic bushings and ball joints. This is of course as long as the arms themselves are in good condition. I live in a dry warm climate, so for me, rust is not really much of an issue. The trade off is there will be the extra time to press them out but since it's a heavier duty part, the intervals in which you would have to do it is increased. Worth the effort to me. Thanks for the videos. Edit: Example where I live, complete upper control arm is anywhere around $60-$125.....all over the board really. Heavy duty ball joint and polyurethane bushings about $40.
Great videos. Thanks buddy!
thank you, glad you liked it
😍you had me at "great people"😍
Watched thru 5.5 mins, never put a tool on the vehicle! Thanks!! Just what I needed! You're the greatest!
Fast forward to 6:10 to miss the BS !
Lol
You are amazing lol.
Thanks
HERO!
Thanks John!!
Thanks for this info.
Thanks Doc
This was a good video. You always give us good and honest info. it's a pleasure to watch you and your videos. I always look forward to them Please keep the channel going. btw, your telemarker sounds like mine. But mine is selling solar panels. He can be one rude dude, lol. The phone company should stop them. A great video, Thanks my friend.
+Thomas Tommy At least solar panels are cool. Most of those calling here are offering credit card processing systems with hidden fees and they want me to disclose personal information so they can tell me how much money they will save me. Haha. Could you imagine if telemarketers were like email spammers? Calling to ask if I'm interested in male enhancement. Haha. Thanks for your loyal viewership along with your valued input. Check out this telemarketer vid from my other channel:
czcams.com/video/PN7vyFJKaIw/video.html
I love the car doc.
oxygen torch for the rust works wonderfully
Hopefully the time of chatter is'not included in the labor cost.
Most flat rate mechanics charge fairly close to the published book time, as shown in the dealers repair manual. In some individual cars, work can be done more quickly, in others a broken or rusted bolt can push time over. Like many jobs, the average is acceptable but there are tasks that take longer and the mechanic eats that time. I worry more about the guy who is cutting corners to make money by moving faster. The job ends up being sloppy and maybe not done correctly. The guy who spends a little time teaching will almost never directly charge his customer for that.
That part about the bonus butt plug reminded me of that Crank Yankers episode LMAO
Thank you! I wondered why the upper ball joint and lower bushings are not sold separately- looks like Ive got to purchase some control arms.....
I have a question, can I put 4wd ball joints on a 2wd truck? I have an 04 dakota. I do want to say this, I totally appreciate your video and how in depth you get with how to do it the job. If I lived close to you, I would so bring my truck to you. Thank you again. As always" You rock".
Your my hero...a tool box bigger than I am. Awesome! Plus my wife's favorite color. I may have a chance at buying one now that it comes in her color! A fart machine, classic. A sign of a good technician, always considering the value. I like that.
+wyattoneable I bought that box about twenty years ago and I'm not sure if they still have that color. But I'm pretty sure you could custom order it. I have the super blaster ultimate fart machine and its remote controlled. It's one of the best tools I have in my arselnal.
+The Car Doctor That color reminds me of a '57 Chevy. I don't know much but I'd bet "one loud but not too deadly gas blast" on a unsuspecting customer that Snap On has the word 57 Chevy or Teal in the paint name.
Haha. Did you see this one? Fart machine in action. czcams.com/video/o5LpDWbRK94/video.html
+The Car Doctor No i didn't -- till now. Funny as all get out. Would have loved to see her face at the end. Too bad the phone doesn't have smell-a-turd to finish the icing on the cake. ;) =-b (my lame thumbs up)
Tim, as always that was a very informative video. Unfortunately where i work we usually install the cheapest crap available. China is my boss's friend. I agree that Moog is the best but not as good as it used to be. We appreciate you, your knowledge and your videos.
+wysetech2000 I did some research and decided that it's not a given that the part is even made in the USA. But I will say that the parts continue to hold up better than any others I have tried. I can't stand installing red box stuff because I feel bad when two years later I'm selling the same job again.
Sometimes 6 months.
China's not.your bosses freind. Money's his freind and you get what you pay for. Buy cheap.gey cheap. I had a guy say once the neibors eat cheap I pay more f I r the good stuff not the cheap shit. Good day freind
Yes sir, the rust belt will eventually destroy everything made of metal. Keep up the good work.
+ManicMechanic007 don't know how you guys do it. I get sad just when I have to use my can of WD40 I've had for ten years. Haha.
I have a question kind of like this video. On replacement of idler arm. I’ve seen some replace just the arm and some the arm and bracket. Why choose one or the other?
Truly amazing to see a 14 year old truck with a ton of miles on it with no rust
+davemaster001 It's probably strange to hear but 130K is a lot of miles here. 150K on a 2001 F 150 is doing really good. This one has over 230K and running strong however the trans might be weak. Cold weather, lots of idling time, no highway miles and terrible roads take their toll. There are actually some really nice classic cars here. Quite a few exotics but they can only drive them 4-5 months out of the year. Next year I might get me a dog sled team and stop worrying about all these vehicle issues!
How do you get the shock absorber yoke bar back on to the new lower control arm? 2003 trailblazer ls.
I have a 2001 Chevy Silverado I’m trying to replace the lower control arm I got the old one off but I can’t seem to get a new one on in place what am I doing wrong
On my car 2003 Chevy Cavalier I removed the rivets and increased the holes to 1/2" to fit new ball joint bolts. But the question I can't find anywhere: what torque specifications do you apply on those 3 bolt, attaching the Ball Joint to the Control Arm? In Haynes Manual it says should be an instruction sheet in a new set, but mine doesn't have one. From Internet it looks like 10-12 or 12-14 Ft-lbs, but in one film he applied 50 Ft-lbs, though on a truck. Pls could you give your opinion what torque specification it can be? I did a lot of research on Internet, nothing on that question. Thank you for a good film.
From N Michigan. Rust is a shade of paint here. Nothing comes apart easily, and I always work on my rig on a weekday so I can buy what I break. Rust is terrible, I envy u..
Tim on my 2500hd my upper arms were good and I used moog problem solver upper ball joints. If I went for the arms I would need the alignment done. All good and tracks fine I know they suggest to get an alignment so when you just change the upper ball joint do you find the alignment out ?
+STEVE ROB If I find the alignment out after the repair I figure it's probably not due to the actual part replacement but likely from before. Maybe a condition that happened over time or because of a bad pothole. Hard to imagine that parts machined with such close tolerances would cause a difference in alignment angles of any consequence. On the rig today I changed the arms and left the plastic cam bolt locators on and used them to get a more exact position of the arms. I'll see tomorrow when I put the machine on it in the morning and see where we are at. In your case it seems like if it handles great and there is no tire wear it's probably ok. Toe seems to be the most sensitive angle when speaking of parts changing and the resulting effect. That's all I got. If you need the mathematical and physics principles in regards to this theory you'll need to talk to Eric O. Haha.
+STEVE ROB - Hiya's Big Guy! Steve - some clown left ya a note above.
Hawaiian F150 A pretty smart one too, little secret just between us guys, you know that Eric O guy well he was taught everything by Tim when he lived down south. Actually was Tim's helper, you know getting coffee's , that kinda thing , then Tim started him off with tire changing and look at him now he's a fantastic tire changer. LOL
+STEVE ROB -- i didn't know that. That is really awesome. I mean to know that someone you helped and taught has become such a good mechanic. Tim - You got to be Really Proud of that. And you certainly have every right to Proud. I would if it were me. Not many can say and show how much they helped others become better people. Many Talk the Talk - You Walked the Talk.
Thank you guys. it's really cool to watch a student of mine get from not understanding what internal combustion was to learning how to put air in a tire. He's come a long way and that's just in the last six months. So proud of him.
Thank you Doctor! I wish you were around where we live. Wife has a 06 Lincoln Town. We are replacing worn lower balls with Moog as I have sold thousand of dollars of Moog with no issues. We want to do the uppers at the same time even though they are still tight as the car is 13 years young with 100 k on the clock. Upper control arms may be steel or aluminum but I haven't been able to go underneath with a magnet. Does it matter? Should I go with the arms or just the balls and if I go with the arms should I get steel or aluminum?
Love your video, I need help ! Can't replace the bolt on lower ball joint on my audi q3?? Nuts are off but won't release from control arm
May need some heat or air impact tool. Wish I could help but I’m in Alaska
So if I get like a front end kit and it comes with new lower ball joints but not the control arms can I just replace that if there is no damage to the lower control arm and it still work?
👍👍
2004HD Duramax with 260,000 on it. Replaced both upper ball joints last year. Was not aware of that the upper control arm with ball joints was an option. Now, of course, the control arm bushings are going out. ;) So have to make the decision, do I replace bushings or complete assembly and eat the new ball joints that only have about 1,000 miles on them. :(
I have around 260,000 miles with original control arms from factory, would you recommend replacing them? My ball joints are bad but with the amount of miles I have, I figured I’d just replace the control arms. What do you suggest?
Even your time, eh, is worth something!
-car doctor
only issue i see with a upper arm is that half the time in wisconsin those cam bolts are so seized to the bushing sleeve you have to sawzall them out and then buy new cams. Its easier to just do the joint in my opinion.
+UBBERTANKER oh I believe that. You rust belt techs are hard core. I e has the same can of WD40 for twenty years. Most bolts we can remove with bare hands. I hardly ever use my wrenches. Haha.
My own 90 son central can I replace just a ball joint lower lower ball joint broke or whloe
control arm 09 Nissan sentra
“I have a cutting torch I hear you need that.” Lol I’m just below the rust belt, and I tell you sir we use it almost every day for even the simplest of things.
You're from Alaska and you don't get rust? It wasn't that way when I lived there. Maybe it's an ocean thing. I lived in Anchorage (near the ocean) for 5 years (high school plus one after) and ALL cars in that time that were 2 years old were jacked with rust. It always started from the wheel wells. This was in the '80s though. Things may have changed by now.
Now I am in Phoenix, AZ for the last 30 years and THIS is the place where there is no rust. Zero rust on all metal parts. That's why people have tons of cars from the '50s with faded paint but perfectly intact non-iron oxided bodies and frames.
Is it safer replacing whole arm with riveted lower ball joint than just replacing lower ball joint . The bolts for new LBJ has nylon inside bolts does it fit as tight after cutting and pounding out old rivets.has any replaced ever come loose
Just need to get the bolts tight and they hold just as good as the rivets. I have seen bolts that came loose but probably not properly torqued in the first place
Is reason for sand due to salt not working well below 15°F? There are too many cold days in Alaska? I hate cold weather. However, Alaska is the bomb in the Summer.
+Qiong Jia I honestly don't know the answer for sure. It only snowed a few times this winter and I don't think the temp dropped below zero and most days it was near or above freezing. But I'm sure next year we will get more than enough to make up for it. Hahaha
You would rock it here. You know Hawaii - true laid back way of living. If you do come by Oahu send me a shout out. Would like to meet you and maybe do a simple BBQ. Again thanks for what you do for us all.
+Hawaiian F150 I will do that. We always spend a couple days there when we pass through. We are going further south this winter but hopefully the following. BBQ sounds amazing.
+The Car Doctor - You got it - sounds perfect to me. I promise not to be the first one to talk about motors just so you can stay in detuned relaxed mode till ya have to get back to the grind.
I love talking about motors. It's how my wife talks to me when she wants to be romantic. Hold it, that didn't sound right. Haha
+The Car Doctor I know what you're saying. I told my wife (married 35 years) that nowadays, a good strong tool is like dream come true. She agreed with me (very rare moment) but she had this look on her face that didn't quite match up with the new 25" Snap On 1/2" drv Flex Ratchet that I was thinking about.
+Hawaiian F150 Hey I seen my old buddy Big Guy Steve Rob floating through here.. Guys - if'n it were me, I'd hold onto yer beers when he passes through... Now I'm not saying much but I heard it through the grapevine (CCR reference) he has been known to buy clear water lite beers.....
Moog! You must be a nascar fan!
+Fernando Cabrera No but I drive like one. Haha.
+The Car Doctor 👍🏼🎉🌟👍🏼 your the man keep videos coming....We watching
🏎🚓🏁
+Fernando Cabrera when you have to warranty your work you try to get the best part possible
UBBERTANKER
The car Dr. tries to get the best FART possible also!!!
Curbed my car in the snow. Already replaced a wheel bearing. And here I am researching about my lower control arm🤦🏻
I am just about to change the front control arms on my ford mondeo, I decided to go with new control arms simply becasue purchasing the bushings and ball joint separately would have been only like 35% cheaper, and in my opinion this would not offset the additional work involved.
+krugerblue That's probably my thinking most of the time. I still have customers who insist on replacing everything if your in there and others who always want to do just the minimum no mater what. Even if addressing something now will save a lot of money when they have to do it a year down the road they choose to save a buck now. I get that too. Lots to consider. I hope folks feel free to add ideas here so we can all keep an open mind to the spectrum of solutions for individual cases. Thanks for the input.
Are ball joints covered on warranty? I can't find it in the contract I have a Nissan Sentra 2012
Sam G most warranties I’ve seen are usually going to exclude those sorts of parts, most components in the wheel well are usually for you to pay for. Especially if it’s a ‘12, that’s 7-9years on the warranty. Probably at this point nothing is covered- I’d definitely call and ask.
How do you know if you need to replace the moog lower control arm? What happens if you dont replace them?
You don't have to replace them unless they are broken or somehow damaged. Its just on some applications its easier and faster to just replace the whole control arm rather than go through the aggravation of trying to replace a ball joint In the case of the Cadillac with torsion bars its too much work to replace the lower control arm because of the torsion bars and all the crap you have to remove so that's why the easier way to go on lower control arms for this car is ball joint replacement
Greetings. Hoping you might be able to answer a few question. Just had my Ford Explorer in the shop and they say I need some work on my front end which I know it needs but the estimate they gave me sounds like the same parts so here goes. For parts he has 2 Lower Ball Joints($170), 1 control arm with Ball Joint - Front right upper($97), 1 Control Arm Assembly($110), Tie Rod end - Outer Left($68)......prices are for parts not labor and under labor cost Ball Joint - remove & replace -RWD lower, both. Ball Joint - remove & replace - upper, both - [Serviced with Control Arm] Tie Rod&/or End - remove & replace - outer, one side - [includes: adjust toe-in only Note; Deduct .4 if alignment is also performed Note: Manufacture recommends removal of rack and pinion steering gear when replacing inner tie rod end(s) on some models. Left(driver)Outer! So does this sound normal to you.....thank you in advance!!
Yes. Hope they are quality parts. No need to remove rack on that vehicle so the inner tie rod estimate is probably high.
@@ThecardoctorTV Thank you!
he's an old school talker for sure and while some are looking for this type of engagement, many want answers quickly,. So unless you really want to know more than you care you will not like this particular video. I have a sibling like this and while I value his knowledge I can no longer go to him for advice because it just takes far to long to answer the question and takes offense if he's not being allowed to pontificate his knowledge on to all of us. Again, time and place and for some this video will be immensely helpful so I don;t think he should be thumbs down, maybe just put long version in title.
I changed upper control arm, ball joints and tie rods. But it feels like wheels have play and any bump pulls the car to one side. What’s next
Sway bar bushings and end links
I saw a video, made by a moog employee, stating they get their parts from around the world, USA, China, Mexico, to name a few.
Moog used to be made in US only but now that FM bought them they are
made by about 16 different countries so unless you can see the box on the shelf you do not know where or what you are getting.it is a shame. because I like you always had used Moog suspension parts. As of late there are a lot of reports of wear and especially boot failures on the ball joints.I have used nothing but Moog through the last 50 years,so now I do not know what to use anymore that I can depend on.
OEM
If the upper ball joint is change should lower be changed too?
If it’s worn out or if you want to be proactive then yes!
So how many miles on my truck should I wait to do maintenance on ball joints or replace UCAs?
I like your channel.But, did you know that Federal Mogul bought Moog and then ln 2018 Tenneco Bought federal . so now there are about 10 different countries That make Moog parts. Tenneco Especially has parts made in China.So now you do not know where your parts are coming from unless you see the original box beforehand. If you buy online its worse because they get rid of original box to save on shipping. It is sad because I always trusted Moog also.
wow a Chevy truck with non rusted rockers .
+1955gaylord What's rust? Never heard of that word before.
Video starts @10:30. You’re welcome.
Excellent!
“Rust belt” hahaha. I love you and hate Minnesota. But AK??? Hell no. Straight to DL
I used to put my 3 years son on the phone with the telemarketers when they asked for me
Just one tiny issue. They don't make the control arms for my truck. Thus my only option is to change the balljoints as needed (the originals lasted 360,000 miles and were not as bad as the ones in this video) And then when the control arm bushings start to get play in them (as of now they don't) then I'll have to cut them completely off and weld in new mounts for a tubular after-market set up. There may be some videos on this channel that show fabrication of aftermarket parts into vehicles with discontinued part numbers, but if not it may make for a good video!
You look like Jesse Ventura
The tela marketing people that call me are wanting to pay off my collage loans 😬
+N Smith well that's awfully nice of them. Tell them to call Eric at South Main Auto, I think he has some old college loans from his getting his masters degree in BS. I can get you his number. Haha.
-:)
+The Car Doctor
I know you were doing a video at the time but when you get a chance go back to that number and add it to your contacts,
You do this not because you want to call them but just the opposite, so you mark the contact name as DO NOT ANSWER.
Phone will ring again sometime in the future and you will glance at it and be glad you made note of it, smile and hit ignore.
+MostlymoparIH
Good video. Dittos on the Moog parts. I have an 01 and 02 T&C that need control arm attention. Going to replace the arms on the 02 then get the bushings and ball joint and put them into the 02 arms so when I get a chance I can put them into the 01. TFS
+N Smith -- The trick to tele-marketer calls. Works with or without caller ID. Without Caller ID, let them speak first then say the following - (with caller ID say) "This (insert your city name) Federal Bureau of Investigations - Fraud Marketing Division, Please State Your Name". They hang up and scratch your name of the list. :) Other wise, legally, it can take up to eight months to get your name through the Opt Out system to work. And even then it's usually less than 50% chance your name will be there. And note that there are some telemarketers who are excluded from the Opt Out system. You have to check with your local city, county and state laws.
I really enjoy watching your Channel , but seems you get the same number of thumbs down @ every Tutorial you put up ... Hmm .. ? Animosity perhaps ? After watching previous vid " Replacing Upper arm and Lower ball joints " , Thank You for the explanation as to why and when the Upper Arm Assembly should be/not be replaced , I was also a bit confused at first vid as well . Location ( weather / terrain conditions etc. ) along with sustainability vs. cost , plays a major roll in evaluating whats best in the long run . I'm getting ready to pull the drivers side wheel of my recently purchased ( used ) 03 Chevy Avalanche 4x4 that has some play in steering wheel and likes to float to the left @ 35-40 mph. and while braking . Previous owner says ball joints needed replaced , but I haven't inspected or sure what underlying problems may exist .. thanks for the possibility's that may incur and/or how to repair in this scenario . P.S any tips or cause on the the above described would be most comforting , Thanks RJ
Moog made in China is what Iv read ?
Moog made in the USA? What! Maybe 7 years ago. In 2023 Moog is made in China then shipped to USA.
you tackle the question after innane rambling to no end, I will check with somebody who gets to the point! Bye
Actually he explains the answer to the question in the title. Did we watch the same video?
Labor? Talk on the job on youtube on coustomer car ?wowzer
I own my own business and have customer permission to use their car as examples. Not sure what you’re getting at.
He knows what he is talking about, he just takes toooooo long to get to the point
Lot of waste of time in the video only 2 minute info 9 minute wasted.
Thank you for watching.
Would be cool if you got to it over all your gratefulness. Just rushing to fix my truck. No offense talk just gets old.
GOT DAMN HE TALK TOO MUCH
You talk too much about the guy that called the telemarketer we don't care about that stuff get to the point thank you
And you think I want to hear your two cents?
If you would stop rambling on and on you could have showed us how the damn upper arm was installed! Less talk more instruction.
Too much bullshit!!
Dude, cut the bs and get to the point!
Too much yapin.....