Good morning, and thank you for this video I just watched it again. When I purchased my sliding table saw 3 years ago you were the only person I could find that had videos on sliding saws. I have learned some good things about how to use it from you.
Some brilliant advise right there I've been struggling to get my slider cutting perfectly parallel for some time not knowing it's the relationship between the fence and the edge of the slider I needed to be looking at. Great video thanks
Great video...I use my grandfather's aluminum framing square we use it to set everything and have in my shop for 20 years. We call it GOD....It's always right and us the benchmark we set everything to
Love your informal style of conversational tone teaching - just almost like being there with you as you carry out this alignment exercise. Very helpful. Bill in Kerrville
Aloha Sam, I received my new Felder K700S recently and had a difficult time squaring the crosscut fence to the blade with the 5 cut method. Your 3 cut method made the difference. Using a 4' x 4' panel as you did I was able to get it square and squaring the slider to the crosscut with my 24" machine square as a second check. Would you ever consider making a video on the rip fence alignment for sliding saws. Mahalo for all your valuable content.
I use a 3 cut method also. As long as your saw makes a straight cut, cutting the two perpendicular sides with your first straight cut as a base will tell you if your saw is square... provided you can a couple of precise measurements.
I have a Hammer K3, the consumer version of a Felder saw with a 48" slider. I used the 5 cut method with a 2' piece of plywood and was able to, within about 30 minutes, to get the cross cut fence square with the blade within .005" over 8'. I used the 5 cut method and a caliper to measure width of the last off cut, front to back. It was almost pure luck, but the fence and slider were obviously very accurate from the manufacturer. I called that close enough.
@@kobudoka1165 For both layouts and machine calibrations, I always try to index from the two most widely spaced points possible. Size matters. The exaggeration of inconsistencies and errors inherent when those differences are extrapolated over longer distances makes them more visible. Another example: Is it easier to see the exact angle on a small miter gauge or on a very large one? Same general principle applies to these saw setups IMO. Sam's first try at correction read .006" over 48". At 10", that amount of error would be pretty, pretty tiny indeed... Where accuracy is concerned, most convenient and most accurate don't always coincide. I believe your method is definitely more convenient than accurate.
Thank u very much. Two years ago I got a new Grizzly 5hp table saw, however this I finished most of the setup for my new 10.5 ft. Slider from Felder model Kf700s. It's my second machine from them and I am happy with the machine. However the manual is not very informative on a lot of simple things like this in your video. I can't even find how to reset my riving knife. I am taking all this as a challenge or a puzzle where the only solution is success. Thank you very easy to replicate and it will go into my knowledge tool box.
Thanks for this there is very little information on sliders and your almost the only individual giving us information and very helpful. Any suggestions on a parallel cross cutting homemade jig?
Ah...so I can invest thousands of dollars in precision measuring equipment and reference surfaces that will likely not be used often, or invest a few dollars in a sheet of plywood. This is a tough choice.
@@tundrawhisperer4821 That's a Noga mag base. They come in a variety of sizes, and are available on Amazon, MSCdirect.com, and many other industrial supplier web sites. That particular dial indicator is a cheap model from Amazon - you can spend anywhere from $15 to $150 on one depending on your desired resolution and accuracy. This is a rundown on the indicator stands from Noga: flic.kr/p/2dPANjW This setup is sufficient: www.ebay.com/itm/1-0-001-Dial-Indicator-Universal-Fine-Adjustment-Magnetic-Base-Holder-P/300938766455
For those that do not know, a carpenters square can be adjusted. Using a 45% metal punch you can bring a square in or out (within a couple thousands, not a 1/4 inch)
I'm a 5 cut kinda guy, Sam, and perhaps because that was the system I've found tried and true over the years in my cabinet shop. I wasn't impressed at all when you first pulled out your tape measure to check the distances at both ends, but when you pulled out your rular and thickness gauge I could see the merit to your system. But to be honest, I'm not convinced that your measurement system is as accurate as that of comparing the thickness of both ends of the offcut strip. To each his.her own!
You are correct, Marty. I think with a large enough caliper this method could be just as exact as the 5 cut. I simply chose to shoot for a level of accuracy that I am comfortable with, plus it is easy and quick. In the world of woodworking I find it is very seldom I need to work to thousandths of an inch. To each his own, indeed. I, personally, don't want a monster truck, but I am sure glad there are people who do because they are fascinating to look at an explore. I love all forms of creativity. Thanks for stopping by.
Anyone here have a Robland E3200? When i purchased mine 18 yrs ago it was commissioned by an engineer working for the saw sales company . It didn't cut 100% square then . It was always slightly out of square. After many attempts in fine tuning it is still not cutting square . Its driving me nuts. He also set the parallel fence so that the fence is not 100% parallel with the saw blade ie if you put the fence against the blade there's a tiny fraction of a gap at the back of the blade near the riving knife. Is this normal?
Hey there, would you be kind to offer some advice, any is very useful: I have a Robland Z400 M panel saw sliding machine with 2 blades. Problem is that i can't align them perfectly... The pre cutter is always a bit off to the right or to the left and that is my problem. How can I allign those 2 blades perfectly?
I am not very familiar with that machine. On my SCM machine there is a knob below the table to move it right and left. Some saws come with a simple scorer installed and use a spacer on the arbor. If you are using a split scorer or dial scorer you may need to remove that spacer, or if you are using single blade scorer you may need to add a spacer on the arbor first to move the blade a little to the left.
Hi Sam, great video and very helpful. What model sliding table do you have there? I’m ready to move into the sliding table world and have been trying to gather as much information as I possibly about these saws. Thank you.
Hi Sam. Big fan of your videos:-) Do you know if it is possible to install and align the large rip fence bar on a sliding table saw on your own, or is it a job for professionals with specialist equipment only? I recently bought a second-hand Felder K700s 2012, and in order to transport it, it was nessasary to uninstall the rip fence bar, support tables etc. I'm not sure if the rip fence bar was properly aligned before, but it is off now unfortunately. I find it hard to adjust the rip fence bar as it can move in all directions and I'm not sure if it's fixation should follow a specific sequence ..plus that steel bar is heavy:-) Is there a trick to this, or maybe a manual or video that you know of, that could be helpful?
Hi Emil. You would adjust the rip fence at the bar. I'm not sure how Felder attaches theirs, but if it is anything like SCM, then try it. There are three connection points with our sliders. To adjust, eliminate the middle one (or you'll rock on it), just loosen the nuts so the bolt is just there basically. Then you can use the outer and inner connections to make the micro adjustments necessary to get the toe out you like (I prefer .015" on a rip fence). Keep the rip side support table bolts loose as well. I imagine the bar is rectified, like SCM, so it should be straight by itself. Once you get the set you want, then just cinch up all the loose bolts (don't overtighten) to the tables. If you overtighten any of the bolts you left loose you run the risk of putting a slight bend in the bar with can cause some issues. I hope this helps.
@@SamBlasco That's great - thanks a lot, Sam! :-) I will try that out, and keep an eye out for any new videos you might put out in the future! Have a great weekend. Cheers!
Sam I am interested in your dro sliding stops. I have a Hammer K3 slider by Felder. It's my second, getting the longer slider helps. The dro read out from Accurate I would have to change out my existing fence. Is yours a retrofit or new front fence? Which make? I enjoy your videos!
I modified my existing flip stops, using parts from Siko Products. Readouts with pigtail sensor, and I mounted the mag tape in one of my two tape slots, so I can read the tape quickly and use the readouts to dial in. I made a simple platform for the readouts.
Hi Sam, for your model sliding saw how much total “sliding path” room does it require? So from sliding all the way back to sliding it forward to when it stops do you know that distance? After watching this video and seeing how you positioned your slider, I like the idea of possibly putting my future slider at an angle in my shop.
Hello...does this include room front and back for material handling, etc. or is most of the material loading done from the side of the slider making a lot of room in front of the slider not as necessary. Thank you.
All slide wagons will toe out at the back of the blade, approximately .006” - .008”. This is for safety reasons as it keeps the blade from cutting twice, once on the down stroke and again on the upstroke (the dangerous stroke). Even the best blades in the world have a plate flatness tolerance of .002” and this translates to .004” of blade wobble, which needs to be accommodated for. That is also why you want your scoring kerf, when using the scoring blade, to be .004” wider than the kerf of your main blade for better chip out performance (it is like you are creating a micro rabbit, which will disappear, for all intents and purposes, when you add glue to the edging treatment of that panel. Also keep in mind all rip fences should toe out at the back of the blade approximately .015” for safety, too, and because of this you never want to use your crosscut fence and rip fence at the same time. They will fight each other. You always focus on one fence or the other.
It could be an isosceles trapezoid -- two parallel sides, and two sides that diverge, which can happen with the 3 cut method. It is actually helpful, I find, because once you know how much divergence you have, you then have a pretty good idea of how much to adjust your squaring fence. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isosceles_trapezoid
I feel, personally, that a slider offers more versatility. Maybe if you were doing cabinets exclusively, lots of sheet goods, that might make some sense. I do a mix, but more furniture work, and work with solid lumber. Most shops I know that have a panel saw, also have, at least, a cabinet saw, too, and the gray area needed between the two of them would be about the same as a single slider. I have a limited space, and deal with it by having a combination machine. My slider is part of that -- so in the same machine and footprint is also my shaper, a 16" jointer and planer and a horizontal mortiser. I have also found that, unless the panel saw is a high end machine, it is not as repeatable or accurate.
@@riverbuilder2251 Panel saw = Takes up less space , safer , less handling of heavy pieces , faster cutting . But I also have regular tablesaw for really small pieces and hardwood , etc.
@@derekcraig3617 Well based on the end result he had, that’s pretty darn accurate. Plus, like he says, in wood working there are many ways to achieve the same result. It’s just preference at the end of the day.
This method really worked - simple, intuitive and effective. My saw is really dialed in now. Thanks Sam!
Glad it helped!
Good morning, and thank you for this video I just watched it again. When I purchased my sliding table saw 3 years ago you were the only person I could find that had videos on sliding saws. I have learned some good things about how to use it from you.
Some brilliant advise right there I've been struggling to get my slider cutting perfectly parallel for some time not knowing it's the relationship between the fence and the edge of the slider I needed to be looking at. Great video thanks
You’re not alone there. Was chasing my tail until I found this one gem of advice.
Great content, AND learned two used for stair steps that have never, in the 20 years I've had and used them, learned. Bonus!
Great video...I use my grandfather's aluminum framing square we use it to set everything and have in my shop for 20 years. We call it GOD....It's always right and us the benchmark we set everything to
Thank you very much. I am very appreciative since I believe that you are the only one taking about sliding table saw improvement suggestions.
Thank you.
Thanks alot! Especially I respect of your grandfather square! I also have some square and other tools of my grand
Love your informal style of conversational tone teaching - just almost like being there with you as you carry out this alignment exercise. Very helpful. Bill in Kerrville
Aloha Sam, I received my new Felder K700S recently and had a difficult time squaring the crosscut fence to the blade with the 5 cut method. Your 3 cut method made the difference. Using a 4' x 4' panel as you did I was able to get it square and squaring the slider to the crosscut with my 24" machine square as a second check. Would you ever consider making a video on the rip fence alignment for sliding saws. Mahalo for all your valuable content.
Excellent tips well presented. Thanks Sam.
Wonderful video have a sliding hammer just learning how to use it this is really helpful
Thank you.
I use a 3 cut method also. As long as your saw makes a straight cut, cutting the two perpendicular sides with your first straight cut as a base will tell you if your saw is square... provided you can a couple of precise measurements.
found my answer on this vid! Thanks so much!
that is an inforamation that made my day, will try it tommrow.
that was very generous of you!
Hi Sam, great video, I note that you have 2x DRO'S do they ron off one magnet strip
I have a Hammer K3, the consumer version of a Felder saw with a 48" slider. I used the 5 cut method with a 2' piece of plywood and was able to, within about 30 minutes, to get the cross cut fence square with the blade within .005" over 8'. I used the 5 cut method and a caliper to measure width of the last off cut, front to back. It was almost pure luck, but the fence and slider were obviously very accurate from the manufacturer. I called that close enough.
I think 5Cut is more useful method because you can use ANY SMALL PIECE of material (e.g. 10x10 inch)
@@kobudoka1165 For both layouts and machine calibrations, I always try to index from the two most widely spaced points possible. Size matters. The exaggeration of inconsistencies and errors inherent when those differences are extrapolated over longer distances makes them more visible. Another example: Is it easier to see the exact angle on a small miter gauge or on a very large one? Same general principle applies to these saw setups IMO. Sam's first try at correction read .006" over 48". At 10", that amount of error would be pretty, pretty tiny indeed... Where accuracy is concerned, most convenient and most accurate don't always coincide. I believe your method is definitely more convenient than accurate.
Thank u very much. Two years ago I got a new Grizzly 5hp table saw, however this I finished most of the setup for my new 10.5 ft. Slider from Felder model Kf700s. It's my second machine from them and I am happy with the machine. However the manual is not very informative on a lot of simple things like this in your video. I can't even find how to reset my riving knife. I am taking all this as a challenge or a puzzle where the only solution is success. Thank you very easy to replicate and it will go into my knowledge tool box.
You should have 3 or four screws the help the orientation of the riving knife. If not, I have just bent them in the past on some machines.
Thanks for this there is very little information on sliders and your almost the only individual giving us information and very helpful. Any suggestions on a parallel cross cutting homemade jig?
You should check out this channel. czcams.com/video/uVUgjr_Iw1w/video.html He has some great information as well.
Very cool!!
No cutting required and exceptional accuracy: flic.kr/p/2hQEwdH
Ah...so I can invest thousands of dollars in precision measuring equipment and reference surfaces that will likely not be used often, or invest a few dollars in a sheet of plywood. This is a tough choice.
Where would I find that magnetic base and dial indicator set up? Thx
@@tundrawhisperer4821 That's a Noga mag base. They come in a variety of sizes, and are available on Amazon, MSCdirect.com, and many other industrial supplier web sites. That particular dial indicator is a cheap model from Amazon - you can spend anywhere from $15 to $150 on one depending on your desired resolution and accuracy. This is a rundown on the indicator stands from Noga: flic.kr/p/2dPANjW This setup is sufficient: www.ebay.com/itm/1-0-001-Dial-Indicator-Universal-Fine-Adjustment-Magnetic-Base-Holder-P/300938766455
@@Mike--K Here's a $34 setup. www.ebay.com/itm/1-0-001-Dial-Indicator-Universal-Fine-Adjustment-Magnetic-Base-Holder-P/300938766455
@@David_Best Thanks, David! One on order now.
For those that do not know, a carpenters square can be adjusted. Using a 45% metal punch you can bring a square in or out (within a couple thousands, not a 1/4 inch)
Tis correct, but I believe it needs to be a steel square, not aluminium.
I'm a 5 cut kinda guy, Sam, and perhaps because that was the system I've found tried and true over the years in my cabinet shop. I wasn't impressed at all when you first pulled out your tape measure to check the distances at both ends, but when you pulled out your rular and thickness gauge I could see the merit to your system. But to be honest, I'm not convinced that your measurement system is as accurate as that of comparing the thickness of both ends of the offcut strip. To each his.her own!
You are correct, Marty. I think with a large enough caliper this method could be just as exact as the 5 cut. I simply chose to shoot for a level of accuracy that I am comfortable with, plus it is easy and quick. In the world of woodworking I find it is very seldom I need to work to thousandths of an inch. To each his own, indeed. I, personally, don't want a monster truck, but I am sure glad there are people who do because they are fascinating to look at an explore. I love all forms of creativity. Thanks for stopping by.
Anyone here have a Robland E3200? When i purchased mine 18 yrs ago it was commissioned by an engineer working for the saw sales company .
It didn't cut 100% square then .
It was always slightly out of square. After many attempts in fine tuning it is still not cutting square .
Its driving me nuts.
He also set the parallel fence so that the fence is not 100% parallel with the saw blade ie if you put the fence against the blade there's a tiny fraction of a gap at the back of the blade near the riving knife.
Is this normal?
Hey there, would you be kind to offer some advice, any is very useful: I have a Robland Z400 M panel saw sliding machine with 2 blades. Problem is that i can't align them perfectly... The pre cutter is always a bit off to the right or to the left and that is my problem. How can I allign those 2 blades perfectly?
I am not very familiar with that machine. On my SCM machine there is a knob below the table to move it right and left. Some saws come with a simple scorer installed and use a spacer on the arbor. If you are using a split scorer or dial scorer you may need to remove that spacer, or if you are using single blade scorer you may need to add a spacer on the arbor first to move the blade a little to the left.
Hi Sam, great video and very helpful. What model sliding table do you have there? I’m ready to move into the sliding table world and have been trying to gather as much information as I possibly about these saws. Thank you.
I have the ES level machine from Minimax, a combination machine, the CU410 Elite S (now ES).
the cart table that runs and is lower than the fixed table
What do you mean by "cart table"?
Hi Sam. Big fan of your videos:-) Do you know if it is possible to install and align the large rip fence bar on a sliding table saw on your own, or is it a job for professionals with specialist equipment only? I recently bought a second-hand Felder K700s 2012, and in order to transport it, it was nessasary to uninstall the rip fence bar, support tables etc. I'm not sure if the rip fence bar was properly aligned before, but it is off now unfortunately. I find it hard to adjust the rip fence bar as it can move in all directions and I'm not sure if it's fixation should follow a specific sequence ..plus that steel bar is heavy:-) Is there a trick to this, or maybe a manual or video that you know of, that could be helpful?
Hi Emil. You would adjust the rip fence at the bar. I'm not sure how Felder attaches theirs, but if it is anything like SCM, then try it. There are three connection points with our sliders. To adjust, eliminate the middle one (or you'll rock on it), just loosen the nuts so the bolt is just there basically. Then you can use the outer and inner connections to make the micro adjustments necessary to get the toe out you like (I prefer .015" on a rip fence). Keep the rip side support table bolts loose as well. I imagine the bar is rectified, like SCM, so it should be straight by itself. Once you get the set you want, then just cinch up all the loose bolts (don't overtighten) to the tables. If you overtighten any of the bolts you left loose you run the risk of putting a slight bend in the bar with can cause some issues. I hope this helps.
@@SamBlasco That's great - thanks a lot, Sam! :-) I will try that out, and keep an eye out for any new videos you might put out in the future! Have a great weekend. Cheers!
Sam I am interested in your dro sliding stops. I have a Hammer K3 slider by Felder. It's my second, getting the longer slider helps. The dro read out from Accurate I would have to change out my existing fence. Is yours a retrofit or new front fence? Which make? I enjoy your videos!
I modified my existing flip stops, using parts from Siko Products. Readouts with pigtail sensor, and I mounted the mag tape in one of my two tape slots, so I can read the tape quickly and use the readouts to dial in. I made a simple platform for the readouts.
Hey that’s original. Never seen a woodworkers video in slow motion.
That's normal speed, not slow motion. When truing something I move rather deliberately. Ha.
Hi Sam, for your model sliding saw how much total “sliding path” room does it require? So from sliding all the way back to sliding it forward to when it stops do you know that distance? After watching this video and seeing how you positioned your slider, I like the idea of possibly putting my future slider at an angle in my shop.
Ideally you would have about 22', but you could just get by with 20'.
Hello...does this include room front and back for material handling, etc. or is most of the material loading done from the side of the slider making a lot of room in front of the slider not as necessary. Thank you.
@@steinbierzCorrect. I've seen different operators load sliders in different ways, but loading the wagon in a neutral position works well for me.
Could you please explain the toe-out again? I am about to take delivery on a k500 professional.
All slide wagons will toe out at the back of the blade, approximately .006” - .008”. This is for safety reasons as it keeps the blade from cutting twice, once on the down stroke and again on the upstroke (the dangerous stroke). Even the best blades in the world have a plate flatness tolerance of .002” and this translates to .004” of blade wobble, which needs to be accommodated for. That is also why you want your scoring kerf, when using the scoring blade, to be .004” wider than the kerf of your main blade for better chip out performance (it is like you are creating a micro rabbit, which will disappear, for all intents and purposes, when you add glue to the edging treatment of that panel.
Also keep in mind all rip fences should toe out at the back of the blade approximately .015” for safety, too, and because of this you never want to use your crosscut fence and rip fence at the same time. They will fight each other. You always focus on one fence or the other.
great video, get some sleep Sam, you sound like you could use it!
How can corner to corner measure the same and not be square? You would have an edge not straight, throwing your square out.
It could be an isosceles trapezoid -- two parallel sides, and two sides that diverge, which can happen with the 3 cut method. It is actually helpful, I find, because once you know how much divergence you have, you then have a pretty good idea of how much to adjust your squaring fence. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isosceles_trapezoid
Как ты долго всё делаешь..это же уснуть можно.
nice video.. But your voice volume goes down when you ramble and the soundtrack drowns you out.
Thanks for that. I will work on making it better for future projects.
Agreed
Why in the world would you use a slider over a panel saw , especially with limited space ?
I feel, personally, that a slider offers more versatility. Maybe if you were doing cabinets exclusively, lots of sheet goods, that might make some sense. I do a mix, but more furniture work, and work with solid lumber. Most shops I know that have a panel saw, also have, at least, a cabinet saw, too, and the gray area needed between the two of them would be about the same as a single slider. I have a limited space, and deal with it by having a combination machine. My slider is part of that -- so in the same machine and footprint is also my shaper, a 16" jointer and planer and a horizontal mortiser. I have also found that, unless the panel saw is a high end machine, it is not as repeatable or accurate.
@@SamBlasco Ok , I have a commercial cabinet shop use a panel saw for all panels , doors etc. and a regular table saw for small cuts
Because they’re better.
@@riverbuilder2251 Panel saw = Takes up less space , safer , less handling of heavy pieces , faster cutting . But I also have regular tablesaw for really small pieces and hardwood , etc.
Doni5717846 safer? Crap
I can only hear a guitar playing.
That's not even close to the 5 cut method
Yeah, that’s why he titled it “5 cut method in 3 cuts”! 😁
@@tundrawhisperer4821 That doesn't take away from the fact that this method is missing key components to make a sled accurate
@@derekcraig3617 Well based on the end result he had, that’s pretty darn accurate. Plus, like he says, in wood working there are many ways to achieve the same result. It’s just preference at the end of the day.