Where would Aston Martin be with 2x Lance Stroll's?
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- čas přidán 26. 09. 2023
- I wanted to see where the Aston Martin Formula 1 team would be in the constructors championship, if they had to rely on Lance Stroll, and his teammate - Lance Stroll. To demonstrate the difference a great driver, and a not so great driver, can make to the way a car and team is perceived.
The difference? It's bigger than I thought it would be to be honest...
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#TommoF1 - Sport
Two Lance Strolls would definitley increase the chances of an incident ruining MAx's race and giving someone else a chance.
Fully agree on this take. It would be enough to frick up at least 2 championship hopefuls.
That implies that he could get anywhere close to max.
@@tarettime9392crashing and bringing vsc after max pits does the same
More safety car shenanigans
Genius answer!
Alonso is a truly exceptional driver, which really exaggerates Lance's shortcomings. That being said, the F1 driver field has never been more merit based, and never been more high quality. Lance is starting to stand out more than ever because of that.
Lance stood out the moment he entered F1. He didn't beat Massa in seasonal points, he didn't beat Perez, he didn't beat Vettel and now he's not even close to Alonso.
Fair comment. As the standard increases across the board, those who can't keep up will increasingly stand out.
I mean Ocon didn’t have too many problems challenging Alonso here and there
I’d take him in the second AM if offered ngl
@@Duval-In-The-Wall - Look how many DNF's Ocon had vs Alonso.
Do you think DNF's play a role into a drivers points total in a season?
Ocon was close to Alonso in both 2021 and 2022 in points, race and head to head qualifying. Alonso only beat Ocon 11-10 on qualifying last year. Which makes sense as he is 41-42 and not in his prime. Stroll is so bad, he's making Alonso look better than he is.
I remember stroll in 2017
Joining f1 as a 17 year old 2nd youngest driver to start an f1 race
Has a terrible first 6 races
Then gets a podium at Baku becoming the youngest podium sitter in f1 (behind max)
Gets a front row in torrential rain conditions at monza
Finished 3 points off massa in the standings (a 16 second world champion)
And I thought damn this guy could be a generational talent
And he’s had his epic moments but what started so well has now spiralled to mediocrity
Saying that Lance Stroll is mediocre is an understatement😂
He's too comfortable. He knows his place is secure so he's not hungry enough
How could you ignore 6 terrible races? 😂
He doesn’t deserve front running machinery, but put him in a haas and nobody would care. And he’d pick up a few points
Massa could've won Baku had his car not broke
Pretty impressive from the Strolls, finishing close to each other every race and not once crashing into each other 😄
Good inter team relationship
They hit each other in Bahrain, just no damage
Save on driver salaries, but double the crash budget.
Economics
Would be interesting to see how Williams would be doing with 2x Albon
Williams with 2x Sargeant: 💀
@@potatogirlcultist19 funnily enough, with two Sargeants, one Sargeant actually scores a single point!
@@TheLaXandroHe'd probably spin out a few laps before bagging that point. 😭
@@potatogirlcultist19repair bills will force Williams to pull out ☠️
Just basically multiply his results by 1.75 or so. You don’t need a CZcamsr to tell you.
Unless I'm mistaken, they DID rebuild the car in Singapore. It was Lance who wasn't prepared/cleared to race. No Drugo because you have to complete one practice session prior to the race.
The main issue was qualifying. The driver that qualify the car must be the one to drive it in the race. In 2020 Hulk drove the Eifel GP without taking part to FP. In Singapore, since Stroll was in qualifying, no one else could drive the car in the race.
Fairs, I wasn't aware of that rule!
to clarify: qualifying is officially called ''qualifying practice'' by the FIA race directors. So to be able to compete in the race you need to compete (or atleast be registered for) in qualfying because it's also forbidden to change drivers after qualifying.
@@pouyouboy4153That's also the reason Fittapaldi didn't get to drive in Abu Dhabi in 2021, cuz Mazepin got tested positive for Covid.
Great stuff Tommo! Now how would Red Bull do with 2x Pérez? Or, equally interesting, no Perez (i.e. Red Bull becomes a one car team).
This
Agreed this would be a good one.
That's the next most obvious one, for sure.
Red bull with just max would still be leading the Constructors
2016 Mercedes simulator......SuperMax 2 would be just behind Max 1, just like Nico Rosberg.
As a father I understand what Laurence is doing but I actually think what he's doing is just going to hurt lance more and more as time goes on. Even if the Aston was the best car on the grid, there is no teammate that wouldn't beat lance, so there is no reality in which he can be a champ. Also, having zero accountability/repercussions for performance will stifle his ability to grow and improve. If Laurence wants a championship team, he needs to get rid of his son and if he wants lance to have any chance at succeeding as a driver then he needs to step away and force him to do it on his own.
Aye, that's a very mature way of looking at it. I hope Lance is doing what he's doing from a position of happiness.
which team would have had lance this long? or which would hire him after racing point?
From the outside he certainly doesn't look like he wants to be there.....but then again, neither did kimmi, and we all accepted and loved him for it.
@@gonpala right now his form is quite poor but people discredit him a little too much. He's not great but he's not terrible either. Zhou, Mick....and even current Daniel all seem to get a free pass for the same mediocre performances. The threat of losing his seat he may have been able to push him to improve.....or maybe not. Self motivation just won't be enough, he needs the pressure to perform to help improve.
@@morganmartin9286 Zhou, Mick and Daniel didn't have the opportunity to drive the Aston at the beginning of the year where it was amazingly fast.
If Aston Martin had two Lance Strolls, they would inevitably crash when trying to overtake each other
Interesting that only yesterday I made a similar what-if experiment, what if Perez was DSQ'd from every race?
The answer is yes, Red Bull still would lead the Constructors Championship
How about 2 checos in the red bull?
@@hideouspatje Then RedBull will tailor make the car to suit his need, Max is genius who can work with anything
Ez
@@csvigneshwar3390 but it would make him slower because the car is slower.....
I looked it up, in the FIA rulebook (I looked at 2021) section 26.1.a it says you cannot change a driver after the start of qualifying so even if AM rebuilt the car they would not be allowed to put Drugovich in at Singapore
Shame that. Especially if it's the designated reserve driver.
I'd argue that mechanical DNF shouldn't count for both clones. The other clone should count as projected finishing position without the DNF.
Fair cop, I'll consider that for next time.
@@TommoOnCZcams Only mechanical though, if driver error it should count as double DNF.
Agreed
Is it possible to project a finishing position, though? It makes too easy to argue against, imo.
@@CarlosSempereChen Reliably? No.
Now do RBR with 2 Perez and 2 Max 😊
2x Max would be pretty easy to work out tbf 😅
@@TommoOnCZcams Yeah i know 😂😂😂
The 2 max one would just be a short lol. 2 Perez would be interesting.
@@empiresSR 2 Maxes would be 2016 Rosberg vs Hamilton simulator.
If Alonso had Vettel as a teammate this season... I bet one of them would have won a race by now. Well, not really since Max is totally killing it, but you get the point
At least one of them would have won in Monaco
I think they could have won races like in Zandvoort or Monaco as they had two drivers who could put pressure on Verstappen and therefore also from the strategy.
Putting Vettel as the second "Fernando" would be the perfect way to replicate this hypothetical in real life. Although, as much as I am a Vettel fan, it pains to me say that there probably would be a mistake in one race where he's just down the order. But yes, they'd both have been on the podium in Monaco, maybe even Canada. They could've tried an early stop for inters with one of either Sebastian or Fernando which might've given them a 1-3 or even a 1-2.
@@barcafan94 big call
@@barcafan94lol no. You’re giving drivers far too much credit. Seb had development failures at Ferrari while being the lead driver. This is way above their heads.
Fernando maximized the results every single time this season and only in zandvoort he actually over performed (thanks to the rain too) ,rest I think a Singapore would have been a possible p6 if not for horrible pit stop.
He's got the minerals
Well, apparently his car was already damaged before the pit stop, so that probably would have been pretty difficult
@@arroe8386 he was still way ahead of gasly but anyway
@@bullymaguire14 With the damaged front suspension housing, Alonso's tires were dead before the pitstop. He wouldn't have been able to keep Gasly or anyone else behind much longer with 20 laps to go.
Nonsense, Spain, Austria, Singapore and now Qatar were terrible from Alonso
No way that’s maximum results “every time”
The interesting thing about Stroll is no matter the car he will get that p7 to p13 mark.
Williams 2018…
Great video concept 👍, especially because of the level of detail you took into consideration (not too much and not too little)! This was a lot of fun Tommy! ✌
Please, do the same with "A championship without Max Verstappen". Really curious to see what championship fight we could have had
There is, would Sergio Perez dominates F1 if Max Verstappen left
@@MhdAkmall
Absolutely not
There once was a lad named Lance,
Whose F1 skills put us in a trance.
With each race, we hoped for the best,
But his driving just caused us unrest.
Oh, poor Lance, bless his heart,
Seems like he forgot how to start.
His car would sputter, cough, and wheeze,
Whilst other drivers zoomed with ease.
Round the corners, poor Lance would spin,
His car resembling a wild tin.
He'd bump into walls, oh, what a mess,
Leaving debris all over the track, I guess.
His turns were like a dance of doom,
Sending mechanics to their tomb.
They'd try their best to fix his ride,
But even they couldn't hide his lack of stride.
With each race, we laughed and sighed,
As Lance continued on his wild ride.
But hey, we give the lad some credit,
For at least he brought entertainment, we admit.
So here's to Lance, the champion of spills,
We can count on him for racing thrills.
Whether he'll improve, we're yet to see,
But for now, we enjoy his comedy.
- An average F1 fan...
Thank you as always, I'm sure compiling all of this data was draining, We appreciate what you do.
Would love to see 2 Max's vs 2 Perez's and further down the field where teams like Williams and Alpha Tauri would be if they had 2 Albons and 2 Tsunoda's.
"The season opener was super impressive from Lance" Crashed into his teammate on the first lap
Really like this idea. Would love to see a similar vid on all the teams! Good work.
I like how even as a clone of stroll alonso handily out scores him
Rocketpoweredmohowk favorite window lickin lineup
the NERVE!
Diabolical !
Smell of peanut butter in the paddock intensifies
Insane video man! Great job!
Would love to see the RB version of this
2 Max Verstappens? Inject that title fight into my eyes
Imagine the side show of having two Fernando’s on the same team. Absolute comedy
That's true, firework
I have defended Lance in the past as I felt he really wasn't as terrible as people have said, that said I have to concede that he has been very disappointing.. This could have been the season where he proved his doubters wrong. Yes his team mate is a 2 Time champion and arguably could have won more and one of the best this Sport has ever had, but if Lance could have at least been in the Top 6 regularly he could have proven himself. I honestly doubt he will get any between now and the end of the season but I welcome to be proven wrong. Lance is a frustrating driver really because every now and then he does show signs of potential but for most part he just fails to deliver.
Yeah, pretty much every reputable pundit has said that Lance is delivering way worse this season than in the past few, both in positions and when it comes to crashes. He doesnt seem to be able to drive that car at all.
@@Inzersdorf93 Yeah, he wasnt the generational talent, but he wasnt that bad, maybe his wrist injury impact him more than he told us.
@@Inzersdorf93
He's not worst compared with other seasons, he's just exposed by his teammate and the car being more competitive than usual.
The real question is HOW fast WAS that Aston Martin at the start of the season that STROLL was able to overtake Russell on track finish 6th
Keeps me up at night…
We need another benchmark in this team, a Hulkenberg or Albon type to really see the progress. Even Ocon would have done really well
You saw how fast it was in the beginning of the season in Alonso hands.
@@barcafan94
Man Monaco was big missed opportunity…
@@barcafan94It was not the fastest in Monaco. Purely because of that last sector
Even Ocon he said, a driver who was able to reasonably compete with Alonso. Even Ocon….
@@moderatemapper9440 LoL him saying "even" Ocon, when Ocon IS better than Albon and Hulkenberg. The later being overrated as hell.
Super interested to see what happens if you do the same thing with Max/Pérez or what happens if you apply the same approach to Bottas in '17 and '18.
This is the content I subscribe for
what an epic epic video tommo. this is brilliant content! deo the same with to perez, 2 albon etc....
“Verstappen… Perez Albon Gasly”
We were all thinking it but you didn’t have to say it😂
Great video 🙌🏻thanks for repeating it because it’s get abit confusing lol
It’s probably even worse than this because with two cars running high (in the double Alonso scenario) there would be a lot more opportunities for strategy decisions that could change the outcome of a race, so they potentially would be just comfortably 2nd. Mental.
Great video, very interesting 👍
i like this "what if", good call
Nice one. It's worth doing this for drivers with scored points far apart. Can you do it for Perez?
Bloody interesting 'what if' YTcast!! By some weird coincidence, earlier today I was wondering where Red Bull would be with two Perezs driving, so no guesses for who I am suggesting for the next example.
Gap to Alpine of -10.
Edit: Guess I was a bit harsh on Lance predicting that Alpine would be ahead by 10 points but I was correct in that they would be ahead. Very interesting video and I hope that you do Red Bull with 2 Perez next.
I think this is aston’s masterplan to have more cfd and wind tunnel time, cause when they were ahead they got it reduced😮😮
Haha!
I like the transitions
2:52 Lance was luckier because he went into the gravel but was returned to his position on the restart whilst it wasn't Alonso's fault for getting spun
For the singapore GP I remember Mike Krack saying they had repaired the car. But Stroll didn't wanna drive because he was shaken up. Might just be me reading something wrong.
If I find the interview I'll link it here
There would definitely be a 90’s style double mint gum commercial showing a montage of the Stroll twins crashing out
loved the gran turismo music haha
Gotta say, love that Gran Turismo 4 music ❤
It's worth noting in Australia that while Alonso got spun around by Sainz, Lance binned it completely on his own only a few corners later before the flags came out. He too had to be dragged back up to P4.
"Great ! Now's there two of them "
A thought I had while watching this video, if Aston Martin had two Strolls, then would Mercedes have been pushing so hard to re-make their car?
People forget Stroll was head-to-head on par with Vettel in both seasons. Alonso has outperformed his teammates so many times. His head-to-head record is absolutely insane.
23-5 vs Fischella
9-6 vs Hamilton
12-3 vs Piquet Jr.
4-0 vs grosjean
58-6 vs Massa !!!
15-1 vs Kimi
11-8 vs Button
14-2 vs Vanderrone
15-1 vs Stroll
Stroll h2h with Vettel was flattered by some stupid strategies and badly timed safety car.
In 2022, he was comprehensively beaten in the races (Canada, Interlagos, Singapore,..) comes to mind, but got saved.
I see you took meticulously away his record against Trulli, shameful behavior by Briatore!
@@quentinhirschfeld9382
Alonso was 9-6 vs trulli
As for vettel vs stroll, stroll was at the back end of poor strategies. Seb lost head to head 19-21 which is embarrassing. Not to mention there wasn't that much of race pace gap either.
Yeah not true, Vettel had him comfortably beaten most of the time, he just had horrific luck and horrific strategies in a terrible car
Vettel would be insane in the AMR23
@@Duval-In-The-Wall
Lmaoo not true
Atleast have stats to back this claim
On average vettel was only 0.094 seconds faster than stroll in 2022. On the other hand alonso is more than 0.5 seconds per lap faster this year.
Thanks so much for this. Can you do 2 Perez? Is RB still on top?
I would love to see what Lawrence thinks of this video. Hope his accountants/financial advisors at Aston Martin present this to him. The $48 million deficit is insanity. Especially looking at the lack of drive/motivation to move the team forwards from Lance's interview throughout the season. Maybe Lance should really consider tennis.
They couldn’t put Drugo on the car at Singapore as he hadn’t taken part in any session prior to race day
I think if the team had two strolls you'd have to factor the car being developed for him. Would be interesting to look at his cars development in other teams. I think he'd have slightly more points
Just to add some info. If Aston did rebuild the car for Singapore then Drugovich wasn't allowed to race anyways because he did zero Free Practice or Qualifying sessions. According to FIA rules.
Well that goes the Stroll and or Aston Martin collab
The same experiment with two Checos would be kind of interesting… 😂
Zak Brown said that this season would be interesting with 2 Perez driving that RB.
Test that maybe?
Regarding Singapore if a driver starts qualifying they can’t replace with the reserve driver if something happens to the main driver
On the singapore thing...... i think to take part in the race you have to have taken part in qualifying....... drugovich obviously didnt so regs wise i dont think he could if they wanted unfortunately
Also its funny that even Stroll 2 out drives stroll 😂😬
Yeah it's a shame that's a rule, I wasn't aware
Not to mention Red Bull wouldn't have won the Constructor's Championship... yet (With 2 Alonso's)
15:12 having two Fernando's is impossible.. there's only one Magic Alonso
Telfosno
in singapore, i have heard somewhere in the rules that a driver has to participate in at least 1 practice session (or maybe its quali) to race. drugovich couldnt have raced regardless.
I like how in this alternate scenario every top driver has some results changes, EXCEPT Max! That too shows how consistent max is this year.
11:52 They can’t put a different driver in just for the race, they have to be in quali as well. So only stroll could have used the car even if they rebuilt it. Lawson came in zandvoort for fp3, quali, and the race which is allowed. It’s the same reason drivers with so many engine penalties they will start at the back have to go out and set a time in q1, even if it doesn’t really matter for their starting position.
Tbf Tommo, in Miami AM only used one set of tyres in Q1 that's why Lance missed out on Q2. He was quite close to Nando in Q1 tho.
Tommo, you forgot to give Piastri the Pastry points for Suzuka, he should be on 60.
Lommo moment.
Lawrence, please take notes
Alternate title could’ve just been “Why Stroll needs to be shown the door” or any other creative way of saying Aston needs to get rid of him
Tbh, some suggestions I have is maybe what would Raikkonen do with that Aston Martin in Stroll's seat and what Vettel could do with Sargeant's car but anyway...
Another banger Tommo 👊🏻 idea for next one, take Perez out the drivers championship and see if Max wins Red Bull the constructors on his own? (We all probably know the answer)
Shout for the GT4 soundtrack
The thing that both Strolls retire, when a car issue happened to only one car in reality, doesn't make sense.
This video doesn't make sense, just like Lance Stroll in F1.
Lance is lucky Checo's season has fallen off so much, so he takes all the headlines for being nowhere near his teammate instead.
(Add in Logan and even de Vries at the start and this season is really turning out to be a season of one driver teams...)
You need a combination of car and driver where ideally both are maxed in terms of skill and performance but if your car is mid, you need an above average driver minimum. And if you have a good car you need a driver with at least a functioning motor cortex. Problem is: im unsure stroll meets this requirement
I've seen Stroll having bad seasons, in fact, most of them were aside from 2017 (rookie) and the 2 seasons he was with Seb where he was average, and 2020 where he was actually challenging Checo before Covid hit him.
But seriously, he's been SHOCKING this season... I've never seen him do this many screw ups in both qualifying and race. Him, Sargeant and Checo are candidates for worst drivers this season.
1. Stroll
2. Pérez
3. Sargeant
I think the most important thing in F1 is squarespace
Oh my God there's two of them now
I think this would also be interesting with 2 Albons and 2 Sargeants at Williams
All the Aston Martin sponsors should email Lawrence this video
Title question, below Alpine most likely.
Your opening question, Both. But the car gets the results more than the driver.
A Yuki and De Vries/Danny Ric comparison would be interesting
Another one of this , "What If" could be great for redbull with two checos intead , without Max i suspect this year could have been a 5 way race for the championship.
Put two Alonsos in the AMR23 and you have another 2007. Whe Totto Wolf was asked about to put Alonso on Mercedes with Hamilton he replied" we are not ready for that level of tension."
Yes they are though, they put the super aggressive Russell.
They already have that tension with Russell, who won’t back down and good for him
The point about prize money just doesn't make any sense. Of all people, Lawrence Stroll is literally one of last ones who cares about "losing" 50 mill when he has net worth of 4≈ billion. On top of that, if he wants to achieve his 5 year plan goal - aero time >>> prize money
I wonder how would one of those look with double Checo rather than Stroll. How close would both driver and constructors standings look? We talk a lot about Red Bull dominance but if only Max wasn't there...
Hes so underrated🥺🥺
we need one simulation where once it would be a where would redbull be if it was 2x checo and one where where would redbull be with only one max and no teammate
I think with two Strolls they would likely be 6th, behind Alpine.
I love how even in a hypothetical scenario, clone Lance 2 is a better driver than Mid Stroll.
Daddy Stroll surely has the bag to pull that off. Hahaha I see what you did there
Loving the GTA San Andreas beep sounds😂
4:40 “if he’d finished ahead in qualifying and stayed ahead in the race… he would’ve won” - Tommo, 2023 😅
Do 2 Perez lets see how OP the RB is.
A video with 2 Perez would be an intresting watch
Stroll has had his highs and lows throughout this season from a 4th in Australia to withdrawal in Singapore, definitely a guy with potential but compared to his teammate, it feels he’s driving a tractor compared to a rocket.
In his 7th year if he hasn't reached his "potential" he never will. Especially when he was given a rocket ship at the beginning of the year.
A correction, he doesn't have highs, just higher lows.
Thanks for doing the math. Now we know the situation is much worse than we thought.
I wish we could calculate the performance of a driver from a worse car in that car, someone like tsunoda or albon