Why These Ugly Wheel Guards WON'T Fix F1's Impossible Problem
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 10. 06. 2024
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So what's the deal with these weird wheel guards? Are they really going to fix the problem of spray in Formula 1? Well my name's Tommo, let's talk about it.
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UPDATE: They've just announced that this wheel cover idea is abandoned. đŹ
Class
Good
Those Wheel Covers & Sauber Pit Crew: A Match Made in Hell!
Well for now they made some improvements for their pit stops and for now it's 2.7 seconds , not particularly good but it's better than in the 3 early races
Nightmare fuel for Hulk
@@TommoOnCZcams Absolutely đ€Ł
Oh God I had even thought about pitstops and how that mess would be.
@@CreamAle Well that will depend if they will reduce them to at least 2.3 seconds, if they can do that in the upcoming races, then awesome , one problem solved. If they will keep having 3 second pit stops then they will not get anything this year (apart the fact that they got Hulkenberg)
I mean we're not going to really see them in heavy rain. So long as they're not equipped for every race.
Yeah I'm not convinced they'll even be that glaringly obvious at racing speeds.
Yea this has been my main confusion with the annoyance with them. When do we even see the wheels through the rain?
Yea this has been my main confusion with the public annoyance. When have we ever really seen the wheels in the rain?
If it means more racing in the rain safely, than waiting for it to dry up then itâll be worth it.
True someone with brainđȘđ»
Yeah, I mean, I still find the Halo to be ugly, but I'm glad it's there.
That's all that ACTUALLY matters at the end of the day.
Devils advocate, seriously how often will we actually notice them when the cars are at speed and racing each other. Itâs the same as how the Halo has blended into things. Hell it will likely be even more unnoticeable as they are against the tire and not the background of the car. Also the first gen Insight is a good looking car fight me.
Real Devils advocate, on rain days only bring out cars from the 60s and see who lives.
You could be right Axle!
Spa 21 left a huge scar that any solution to keep racing in the rain is a huge welcome
Indeed, and with increasingly freak weather that could well happen at any race.
The easiest way to answer this question - how many times have people said: "It's a shame that they've red flagged for 3 hours because of the rain but at least the wheel covers look good!"
It'so facto.
1:51 Paint them yellow and we've got Noddy's car.
Up the Nods đ„
Nothing like jumping from a Law to Tommo video to see this in comments- keep it up guys looking forward to the weekend!
I'm not British but I was reminded about the character recently, tried to search for him as "Nobby". Uh, make of that what you will
What is this? A crossover episode?
To be fair, noddy could steer. Outran plod a few times no worries
Concept.
Concept.
They are concepts.
They are testing potential designs.
C O N C E P T S.
S T P E C N O C
@@TommoOnCZcams Hot damn the one time I make an unserious comment lmao
WHAT'RE THOOOOOOOOSE
Maybe one of the only ways to ensure we get more wet racing and in a way thatâs safe for the drivers.
I haven't heard that joke since Black Panther (2018)
Crocks
Crocks
The 2nd one looks like the cover on a wheel balancing machine in a tyre shop
My idea is to have them as attachments for the rain. Rain comes along, BOX BOX, inters on, rain guard on, off you go. Rain ends and the slicks are the faster option, come in, take it off, take the inters off and put on slicks and leave. It is definitely a longer pitstop which should play into the strategy nicely.
They are ao worried about the wheels but its way more about the diffuser so if they don't touch that then...
Problem is you canât mess with the diffuser with out messing with the areo.
@@rexthewolf3149 thus rendering the wheel covers useless...
I mean, they could try regulating the difusor to make the upwards spray regulated, maybe make it open up more to the sides, or at least make an attachment to the difusor that will change the difusor shape and etc
@@d.k.n4803even if itâs a reduction by 10% itâs better than nothing
I do wonder what the exact split is
I reckon the people kicking up the biggest stink over these are also the ones who complain loudest when rain stops play, and also the ones who were shouting loudest for increased ground effect aero when following became harder.
Facts đ
Ngl if they go the Red Bull X2010 route these covers could look good, reduce spray _AND_ add aero to the car, they don't look that bad right now but integrate them into the package and we could have a new era of sleeker looking race cars
I could definitely see F1 gradually moving in that direction, with time
Worth noting that even though Fiorano is a private track, it's very visible from the road. There's a bridge right next to the track on a public road.
How about this: You make it so that these wheel covers can be put on or taken off the car during the race, like a front wing. Then, when the track is declared wet, all teams must put on the wheel covers during their next stop if they change onto inters or wets. Once it's dry, the covers can then be dismounted again. I think that would be a fair compromise, right?
That's already the idea, no?
@@Slimmeyy yeah, from what I understand the idea is to stop the race at a certain level of rainfall in order for the teams to put on the covers
@@peetjvv But that would be a bit silly, considering that the goal should be that the race doesn't have to be stopped. If it was easily attachable like a front wing, the changes would only take about 10 seconds per car, which would be much better (even though double stacking would become almost impossible).
I wonder how easy it'd be to fit something that runs in such close proximity to the tyres themselves. Like, the tolerances are pretty tight.
@@TommoOnCZcams Hmm, not sure. I think it is possible with the right design and materials, but then again I'm no expert myself. I'm just throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks. :p
Thanks Tommo âŒïž I've been a racing fan for 40 years+. Inclement weather is an unfortunate byproduct of racing in general.. The wheel covers were an admirable attempt to at least research the issue. It is what it is. đđđ
Cheers Jeff!
It is literally impossible to mitigate the spray in the ground effect era. These may reduce it, but not to any degree that effects the driver behind.
I seem to remeber people calling the Halo ugly when it was first introduced, and it turned out to be a critical piece of safety. The wheel covers, while unslightly, would improve a lot of the visability issues. Also, there have been many races where we have had to wait 2-3 extra hours for the race to be run even if the rain has let off and the track is basically ready to go, but we cant due to visability concerns.
Right n'all. Halo is a good case study.
the one thing that could fix the issue of drivers not being able to see is called rolling starts in the rain and like said multiple times by martin brundle they are the best drivers in the world they can handle it. Another thing that is just another problem is the straight up almost refusal of teams to use the extreme wet tire, we wouldn't have this issue if they just used that tire even if its bad it still works.
They can and already do rolling starts, but rolling starts wonât remove the spray. E.g. if you think of spa, how does a rolling start remove spray at the end of the kemmel straight?
Re the wet tires, as Tommo mentioned in the video, at the point where wet tires become viable the spray becomes too unsafe to race, which is further exasperated by the high displacement of the wet tires.
E.g. at Monaco 2022 both a rolling start and wet tires were used, so this is something that already exists but the spray is still a problem.
@@tainmere yah the spray is a problem thatâs true but again I feel that they are âthe best drivers in the worldâ and that f1 used to race in heavy rain but now are way more cautious like with Monaco 22. and I feel that if they are claiming that these are the best drivers in the world they can handle spray like at the start of Japan 22 when there was so much spray but everyone was wise enough not to have a huge crash (vetted is the exception)
@@Tacoplane91 i don't think you watched that race if your saying Vettel was the exception there WAS a big crash, Sainz went into a wall by himself and we almost had another fatal incident like Bianchi's when Gasly was driving blind even when he was 20 or seconds behind the pack going under safety car. F1 has done rolling starts before but it doesn't change the fact that spray is going to be kicked up at all points of the track hindering visibility and the chance to see closer racing
@@db3740 yeah but the reason why he spun is because he aqua planed off because the teams didn't wan't to put on wet tires. but i do agree that in the end the right desion was made because even without spray it was impossible to see. and also at least it is racing not just waiting around for 2 hours then getting a 40 minute race
24 F1 full wet races all year here we go!!!!!!!!! đđ
Up the sprinklers
It's the floor and rear diffuser that causes the huge tail which blinds those behind, they basically act as a water cannon. The only way to reduce it would be to revert to pre-ground effect and simplify the floor and rear diffuser.
Rip Clutchgoneski giggling in the corner with the solutionđ€đ€đ€
Tommo math:
GR: 95% is dry racing
Tommo: I donât know about that GR. Letâs say 10% of racing but only 1/2 of that is actually really wet. đ
So not 95% dry but really itâs 5% wet. Got it.
Engage Rally Mode when its raining too much. Everyone starts with a 5 second gap to the one in front and you get that delta subtracted from your race time in the end.
Brilliant! /s
Fair point! Great edit! Love your videos Tommo!
they look a bit silly but if it means more, safer racing, i'm all for it. my only concern is that the cars sending the spray up into the air is how they dry out the track so reducing that may mean the track stays wet for longer. but if it is the case of there's sufficient grip but too much spray, it should be fine
It's an interesting engineering problem. Aero/tyres that chuck the air up, but keep the water down. For rain conditions, perhaps a mesh or curtain on the back end that lets air through, but mitigates the tyre spray?
You know, itâs not just the tires that throw up water. I think the covers will be cancelled out from the ground effect. They wanted cars to rely more on the floor to generate the downforce, but the consequence of that is that the floor creates more suction hence throwing up more water. Iâm not sure how F1 will figure it out, but you can say itâs a step. In what direction, I have no idea.
Two things that will solve this problem
1- Scrap Parc ferme if rain is forecasted, that way you adjust the set up of the car to decrease aquaplaning
2- rework the tires to produce less spray
Wet weather racing is hard and dangerous nothing else we can do about it
why not put a huge umbrella on the stage?
can't imagine that being more expencive than develope a new tier system
just to make sure its strong enough to resist the wind
The wheel cover variant that has some holes on the sides to show the tires look like a blue garden hose was rolled into a circle. That's just about the only thing I can think of when I see that picture. So somehow I'll just put up with the black wheel cover that covers the whole thing, especially if it means we can see F1 cars comfortably racing in the rain again. It will be a wonder though how exactly pit stops work and how changeable conditions like Zandvoort 2023 would be handled, or maybe even how the wheel covers might be taken advantage of as another aero element to add downforce.
Is that a JPM hat hanging in the background? Hadn't noticed it before. Being a fan of Montoya and representing the last time Williams was truly creditable, I almost bought a hat with that design a few months ago but ultimately passed because the team's branding of that era is so bland.
It is indeed, good spot! Don't make them like they used to.
For me i feel improving the drainage systems of some of the well known tracks where weather is an issue should be of paramount importance. recognizing the areas where puddles form, could help reduce the impact of spray and help them in the technological advancements they make on the car
I would like to see development that there would be some sort of structure on the inside of the tyre and that you could quickly add wheel guards in a pit stop. Maybe with some sort of latch system or couple of bolts that they could connect like the front wing does. Then it could be made mandatory to have them on if you use inter or wet tyres and then FIA wouldn't have too much problem with deciding at what point do the teams have to put them on. Also I have no idea how big of a difference it would make, but I would like them to still be at most from the middle of the wheel backwards so that it would leave large portion of it visible, since I don't see how much more it would help the spray if it was all the way over it. And please try to keep the front of the tyres open.
They did say its pretty useless because the main issue is the floor so this won't really do much.
Plus another part of the issue is visibility. When its wet enough for wet, the safety concern is often just visibility and spray is part of it for sure but having rain pelt you isn't great for knowing when to brake and turn in these hulking machines at high speeds with others doing the same who can't clearly see anything either
im all for the little bits (renders) that live right behind the bottom of the tire to block the water from being flung rather than a full cover
In formula e they had tyre covers in the gen 2 era more elevated and less restrictive but can't remember if they were effective in the rain since that was rare
I would be fine with the drivers just doing a go kart race if they decide to not race on a spa 2021 type day
Want to reduce the spray from tires in the rain ? Make the rain tires NARROWER ! Narrower tires don't heed to displace as much water at a given speed. Then, you have more pressure against the track per unit of surface. So, less aquaplaning and less spray.
I know, that's NOT a perfect solution. But, it can be PART of a solution.
Then, have some aerodynamic element to split the spray from the diffuser and send at least part of it sideways. Only have it in wet conditions. Sure that it'll reduce the downforce, but, less spray behind the car.
I think we should actually use something like an infrared heads-up-display or some other kind of vision enhancement so that the cars and track limits can be visible regardless of atmospheric conditions. I think that's a more reliable solution.
Trival pursuit to sponsor the open sided covers, filll in one whole with a colour cheese/pie.
anyone else though of the cars from the speed racer movie when seeing the wheel covers? specifically the T-180 cars
why dont they just do open half shells that mounts to the wheel hub. Its not too intrusive, allows for fast tire changes, half the weight of the current prototype, blocks where a mass majority of the water comes up.
I think the solid-wall ones look fine
I figured if the show must go on... I guess the wheel covers would deliver a better race.. right? So I guess we should have them.
Speed Racer T-180 vibes.... If we ever get those in real life, racing might be incredibly interesting!
What about Infrared display inside the helmet, similar to F35 â
Ooooo, that sounds fun.
When the halos were introduced they looked hideous, too. Now they're properly integrated into the design and are an essential part of it.
Provided the desired effect of reduced spray is achieved I reckon the design will also evolve over time to be more pleasing to the eye.
F1 cars are SLOWLY turning into Speed Racer cars and I love it.
why not apply them in dry races also? think they can prevent punctures
Iâm somewhat indifferent; apart from the fact that if they enclose the wheels, the cars wonât be open-wheel anymore. I thought that was kind of the whole point
Simple solution make the cars smaller and lighter so they don't need as much downforce just like they used to be before 2017 when the bigger 2014 reg cars could still race
Is it impossible to make the defuser shoot the air down into the track?
They should make the wheel covers look like the ones on 1930's streamliners
Use construction trucks MUDFLAPS and full body length rubber SKIRTS. Yeah, screw all the aero the car created to glue itself on the ground.
Why is no one talking about the number 14 on the car?
I think a mesh would do it for the diffuser.
They can't beat the spray as long as they have diffusers. Just think about how a diffuser works, it reduces air pressure, which atomizes the water underneath the car straight into the air
It's definitely 100m on a race weekend, Victorian government spends $100-$150m on the race each year
I actually love the idea of removing downforce for wet weather races, I know itâs impossible but damn it would be entertaining to watch
Even Thicker tired. Or bigger rims with same thickness tires could help by making the floor less effective
These are prototypes though. I think they'll look much better once properly developed, same as the halo.
Add flaps behind the tires like trucks have.
I am all for driver safety but I think driver safety has come a long long way and driving in the rain isn't as dangerous as it once was, Especially if you're going so slow to keep it on the track that you barely touch the wall anyway, You just drive slow, Try not to spin, Whoever finds grip (driver ability/car performance) and is able to go fastest wins, Even if the race is red flagged or is finished due to multiple stoppages and or time limit being reached I wouldn't mind, That's what F1 is all about, Drivers at the limit!!!
Some of the cars in the 2008 Speed Racer movie had wheel covers like these. They look kinda futuristic and i don't think they are ugly overall. Thier only for heavy rain anyway so its not biggie.
We going back to the 1954 closed wheel F1 cars boys
How on earth would a pit stop work, any idea if the covers are added on after the wheel or will it be both together? Chaos either way lol
Rubber sheet to cover the diffuser??
I personally think they're gonna have to bite the bullet and put something in the diffuser, likely attaching to the rear taillight/pit stop mount area. Let the teams design it for their own cars with a set budget separate from the big budget/CFD cap, and with very strict restrictions on what is/isn't allowed and how much spray is acceptable.
How about just pull out a tent over the track when it rains? đ
My main gripe is the aero throws up spray probably as much as if not more than the tires so bruh
I actually like the solution they've tried, because the spray has always been an issue since the cars got wider in 2017. But now there's a compromise between good racing using ground effect cars and producing the spray from the diffuser. Robbing the diffuser of downforce in wet weather conditions is asking for a catastrophe to happen.
2007-08 f1 cars could race in the wet but those cars were very twitchy and in wet conditions, it takes a ton of skill to keep the cars on the track, and with everyone going off (Nurburgring 2007) it would just tell people that f1 can't work in the wet when it has in the past.
It's definitely a cut and shut solution, but people who complain about how shit it is doesn't help either. 4 hour delay or ugly looking f1 cars that produce slightly less spray than no covers? Let you decide
Everyone hated the Halo when it was first introduced but its proven its worth. So if these covers prove their worth by turning a wet race from a red flagged Belgium for example into a full points paying finish then its worth the hassle.
people said the halo was ugly too. I think we'll get used to the wheel covers
Back in the 90s drivers used to drive in the wet...
If there is sufficient air flow for the brakes and tyres so that there is no overheating, and it keeps the water spray down then it is a good thing đ€
To be fair to the covers, the halo also had a lot of criticism against it when it got introduced, now we are surely all thankful that we got it. Maybe in 5 years we are thankful because they enabled more and better wet weather races.
well theres one solution...make the tyres slower ... remember last few seasons how the wet races have been boring compared to lets say Hockenheim 2019 or brazil 2016...these big tyres spray even more than before ..smaller tyres and less effective rain tyres should fix this ,like the good old days
How do they even fit onto the car
I for one truly hope so
I understand the problems with open wheels, but these cars just do not look right with wheel covers. F1 cars should always be open wheeled, wheel covers also have their own list of problems, like pitstops.
For people stuck on how ugly: Understand these are going to be used only during very wet situations and with all the spray and mist, you wont even be able to see them.
Making rain wheel narrower just doesn't seem to come into the conversation Less weight, spray, speed and aquaplaning. Easier to fit spray guards as well.
I think one of the issues they need to get sorted is the time it takes to go back racing from a red flag condition.
When a race is red flagged because of rain, assuming there is no trackside repair or recovery to be done, it should be possible to sit out a shower and go back racing.
But as it is now, once the rain stops it takes them half an hour to get going again, and knowing that they take a long time to decide if it even stopped raining.
I'm Saying this with absolutely no Aerodynamic knowledge but could they potentially have slightly turned outwards tips on the end of the diffuser so that rather than air/water being thrown far upwards its thrown up and to either side of the car meaning it gets thrown off the track. Maybe a spec part that can clip on during pitstops which teams cannot alter & try to gain advantages from. I'm sure though that there are thousands of reasons as to why it wouldn't work đ
Don't remind me of spa '21 still haunts my memory. But at least I got a 5% discount code to Lewis's merch..
Dont forget the grand prix days of Stirling Moss driving for Mercedes...... completely covered body of the Mercedes.
Which is why FIA's classification is single seater
if they made it aero we'd be one step closer to wiepout
how would the pit stops work
Albon just re-signed for Williams
I feel like if it is wet that spray is insanely bad, then the racing would be slow anyways. Would these solutions be used in times that we red flag the race for now?
would these wheel covers only be on the wet tyres or what?
Yeah the idea is that they'll only be used in conditions where the rain would get the race red flagged anyways
F1s problem is that few people give a shit about F1 anymore
It's still a prototype, so the focus is on making it work
I mean we all hated the halo at first and now we are glad it's here.
Remember 2018 when the question was "ugly Halo or no racing at all"? People will come to the same conclusion here if it means drivers can race in the rain more safely.
Speedway motorcycle rear wheel guard?
I didn't know people were annoyed seing them. They seem great
DRS was a temporary solution back then, yet it's still here
Just to be clear, is the assumption that these will be âput onâ when rain is in the forecast, but not run âall the timeâ?
There is a practical reason to not run them all the time, overheating tires and blisters, imagine how much the closed design would Influence tire and breaks temperature, the open design is better but still would be problematic in hot tracks