10 Strange Old Testament Passages Explained
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- čas přidán 3. 08. 2023
- What’s the best way to read the Old Testament? Should we even engage the OT since it’s hard to understand? Dr. Dominick Hernandez is a professor of the Old Testament and the author of a new book Engaging the Old Testament. We discuss some bizarre passages in the Old Testament and offer some practical tips for reading the OT well.
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Sean, thanks so much for the opportunity to be on the show. Thoroughly enjoyed my time chatting with you and I hope to do it again soon!
Great having you on!
This was a super session. Thank you both! 🙏🏼🙏🏼
Probably one of my all time favourite streams. Thank you soooo much
@@ProfYafflethat’s so awesome to hear. Thanks!
😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😮
Burning dung to cook over isn't that weird. They burn dung all over the world to this day because the smoke repels mosquitoes. I did so in Mongolia.
That's my thought. Also free fuel- saves you buying an anaerobic digester! It really is sensible, not weird at all.
And I've lived indigenously where we didn't have firewood but we had plenty of dried dung.
I'm from Ethiopia. It is still very commonly used in my country.
And lots of places have way more dung than trees. Why not burn dung.
We do it in India all the time
What a great conversation! It’s refreshing to hear explanations on tough passages that don’t bear the weight of societal expectations - allowing the Word of God to be holy rather than trying to explain away His righteous judgment. The point on the Prophets being asked to do strange things based upon the difficulties that were coming to the nation is profound. Great stuff!!
Thanks for this encouragement!
I think the constant reference to current societal norms is misguided. Frankly, what modern people think about what was happening anywhere 4000 years ago changes with every generation and matters not at all. Simply, what we think, our moral judgments concerning what God was doing then are nothing but trash. Filthy rags. He is God. He does what He will. If we're approaching the text as believers, we should not be troubled by anything there. If you're bothered, just know that you're probably misunderstanding the text, that the way people in the past conducted themselves was not as we do, & that doesn't mean they were wrong. That an apparent inconsistency in God's morality is probably due to our misunderstanding or our simple inability to comprehend his mind. However, a very important consideration, when thinking about the differences in the way we think about moral issues & God's commands to the Israelites, is that we live post-Jesus. Jesus changed everything. Everything. Including morality. That's the number one thing to remember, and is much more important than how the things done in the Old Testament appear to our modern sensibilities.
Very interesting! And as a woman, I truly appreciated the approach for Proverbs 31, it opens another perspective and takes off a big burden 😁
So happy to read this. All the best!
Glad you enjoyed it!
How, though? They said we're all called to those virtues. It didn't take you off the hook. It put the rest of us on the hook with you. It's an ideal, but it was under the other way of understanding it, too. Now it simply applies to all of us, rather than just wives. We should all set an ideal as our goal, anyway, IMO, even though we can't reach the ideal. We should always be attempting to improve, to get closer to the ideal.
@@bnjmnwst yes, it puts us all on the hook 😁 but Dr. Hernandez explained that Proverbs 31 is an acrostic, like a poem that enlists qualities, but not to be taken as a checklist where you have to or can have all of them simultaneously, IMO, of course.
@@miriam450 Agreed. But I think we should see this as a thing to be attained, while also understanding that no ideal is actually reachable. So it's something we can & should work toward & measure ourselves against, while giving ourselves grace, as well. If you mean that he gave you permission to not hate yourself for not living up to the ideal, I'm grateful that you received that from what was said.
I cannot possibly give this episode enough thumbs up!
Thank you so very much!
Incredibly insightful and helpful. Can't wait for another one like this.
Love in Christ ✝️🙏🏼✝️
These comments are so kind😊
So glad to hear!
We need him back!!!! Loved this episode ❤
This was great. Thank you very much. I'd like to suggest that you do a *time stamp* under the video description, or a pin, so that people who don't have much time can check out the passages they want to find out more about.
I definitely want to have this guest come back!
I’m definitely hoping to come back!!!
This might have been my favorite guest/episode!
This conversation has been absolutely amazing. Many of these texts I have struggled with myself. I trust in the Lord that there is some meaning that I don’t get or don’t understand and have left it to be revealed. Dominick your view, outlook and explanations, have enlightened me and allow me to reconcile these bizarre passages with a loving, merciful God, who also has a message to send. Thank you so much, I pray a follow up of other apparent conundrums in Gods word. Thank you Sean, please do another follow up on this. It truly has been enlightening.
Blessings and Maranatha
What an encouraging note!
I absolutely LOVED this one! I was so disappointed that it had to end. Dr. Hernandez did such a good job, and I always love how you do your videos, Sean. Thank you so much!!
This. is. awesome! Thanks for the encouragement!
Thank you for sharing another great talk. We always enjoy hearing and learning from you and others. It's so helpful and very interesting.
Thx for watching, I enjoy this channel and am honored to do it.
Thank you so much for this video! ❤ loved hearing the insightful discussions :) hope to have Dr Dominick back on the show!!!
I hope to be back on too!
Our pleasure!
@@DrDominickyou helped clear us several questions and look forward to seeing you back on.
Thank you Drs McDowell and Hernandez for taking on these difficult verses /challenges to faith..
They’re not challenges to faith. There is no challenge to blindly believing in something.
Thank you @DrDominickSHernandez! This is encouraging and honestly just fascinating. I especially appreciated you using the Hebrew text for some deeper explanations. I need you on speed dial for my current Old Testament read through! 😉
Honored to be on your speed dial 😊. Thanks for the kindness
In my opinion, the curse of unfaithful woman, where she has to drink the water with the ink ….It provides an innocent wife with a way for her husband to no longer condemn her. Since a man could divorce his wife, only if she was unfaithful, this provides a way for her to prove that she is innocent, and not be killed on the whims of a jealous husband or a husband who just wants a newer, different model. She could actually appeal to this process and hopefully regain his trust, and perhaps better treatment and standing in her marriage. It also prevents him from legally divorcing her simply with an accusation.
Very interesting take. Thanks for the thoughts!
OF course, not mentioned in the video is that many scholars believe that the text says that the magic potion would cause an abortion if the woman had been unfaithful.
Please definitely do more with him Dr. McDowell this was amazing more people have to thumbs up!
Such a great exchange and learning experience! Bring Dr Hernandez back and do some more!!! Loved it!
Really appreciate his remarks on Job. I’ve always doubted the common interpretation as seeming too over simplified. Deciding to study the OT after years as a believer literally changed my life and faith in the best possible way. Would love to hear his thoughts on Divine Council Worldview. Dr Heiser’s perspective has always resonated with me. Thank you!
Yes...please invite Dr. Hernadez again!! His teaching style is delightful...
Thanks!
Thank you! Will do!
I really appreciate the insight! I'd honestly be down to have Hernandez back on again to break down the whole book of Job!
This would be 🔥❗
Very good conversation, please do more of this :)
That would be awesome!
Thank you for having this guest on your channel. Please have him back again for more of this. Extremely helpful!
Wow, this was fantastic! Thank you both so much. I learned a lot. Can't wait for the next show.
Loooooved this video!!!!! He is so fun and informative! ❤
¡Me encantó el episodio!!! Mi mamá siempre ha “tenido problemas” con el pasaje de Proverbios 31.
Thanks so much for a wonderful, thoughtful conversation! Looking forward to many more.
I love to hear about Job.
The book is fascinating. 😊
Love this content!! Thank you Dr. Hernandez! Looking forward to more videos!! 😊
I appreciate Dominicks's enthusiasm! Very interesting episode, I have so many times I read the Bible and really don't understand what's going on
More programs like this….I’m not sure how to frame the question. I was raised in the church (I’m 78 years old). The denomination of my youth believed in a conversion experience and after that a second work of grace; sanctification. I believe Jesus came as a baby and is fully God. I believe Jesus died on the cross and rose again defeating death and he is with the Father and intercedes for me through the Holy Spirit. I believe in the Trinity. The past twenty years I have attended an inter-denominational church-that believes in eternal security. I am and always have been confused by the eternal security question. It seems to me, if I become a Christian and knowingly sin and walk away from the Lord I’m in danger of losing out on heaven. Question about the Second work of grace…the thief on the cross asked the Lord to remember him in paradise and Jesus granted his forgiveness, there was no need of a second work. I hope this makes sense and I’m sorry it’s so long. Love your channel…
Is being indoctrinated into a religion a good reason to believe it is true?
The way I see it, is that salvation is a gift of God, given by grace and we receive it by faith, not of our own works so we can't boast (Eph 2:8-9) When we receive Jesus by faith as Saviour and Lord (Jn 1:12) we become part of his body the church. Salvation/repentance of our sin is shown by our fruits (behaviour) which is where sanctification (which is the continued work of the Holy Spirit in our lives to make us more like Jesus, and following God's will) comes in, it is a daily thing. I like Chuck Missler's take on this matter (eternal security vs lose salvation) Salvation is ours and secure as its dependant on Jesus, not us so long as we continue in faith, walking/living according to his word and listening to the Holy Spirit, and showing good fruit. Conversion is accepting him as Lord and Saviour, choosing to live his way and not our own. sanctification is acknowledging/placing him as Lord of our lives and living our life according to his word and way.
@@prechagirl salvation is a carrot for gullible people
@@prechagirl well said-I totally agree. I wish I was as articulate as you.
This was fantastic, especially the proverbs and job ones
This is the video i've been looking for. Love the OT.
These weird things are usually ignored. TYSM
Encore 👏
Thanks so much for yet another great episode. Explanation of Proverbs 31 was very interesting i definitely want to read the Proverbs book he mentioned. I just need to find the name. Thanks and God bless
Great video. I would love to see this guest again.
Thanks, he’s GREAT!
Well that’s nice of you to say!
Really love it🙌🏻🙏❤️
Awesome‼️
Thank you!
So powerful and full of knowledge & wisdom! Keep it coming - love this!
This episode was great! Please do it again!!!😀
I would love to‼️
I find Dr. Heiser's work on these very weird passages to be quite compelling. I encourage anyone who is interested in these passages to include his work in your scholarship.
Absolutely!
And Chuck Missler
@@crazyflowerlady1060 I'm not familiar with him. I'll look him up.
Please have Dr. Hernandez on again! I enjoy his insights and would love to get a Ph.D. in OT one day myself. I eat this stuff up!
Aww shucks! That’s nice of you!
@@DrDominick You demonstrated yourself to be a classic PhD Archetype. Your 'teaching' while voluminous was vacuous and erroneous. This is why we are instructed to use fewer words whenever the opportunity is there. David was given wives by The Most High Himself, and told if not enough, TMH would have given David more wives. *Polygyny was not & is not akin to adultery!* If you disagree, you are calling TMH a liar in His testimony to David's life found in *I Kings 15:5.* This was said of David, though he slept with multiple wives throughout his life! A single occurrence of adultery resulted in the death penalty, which David's son faced because of David's single act of Adultery with Bathsheba! Chase Messiah!
This was so interesting! Thank you, both!
This is a wonderful episode. As a Chinese, I often find the interpretation of the Word with a liberal individualistic mindset unsatisfactorily weak. Lots of things that offend a modern western man doesn’t offend me. I’m thankful that Dr. Hernandez gave a more cultural context based explanation of those passages.
Thanks for these words 😊
Yes humans' sense of justice is very cultural. This is a fact that is often hard for people to recognize.
I like the way that this ended with the same thing Grandma Irene told me when I first began to study the Bible. When you find something you don't understand, keep reading. It will make more sense as you learn the bigger picture. Or it might just not be that important in the bigger picture.
I think people sometimes forget, the Bible is intended to teach and inspire people of all times and places and cultures. There will be things we won't be sure of, but it made perfect sense to the people in the time and p[lace it was written. There are also things that make sense to use today that would not have made sense to the people at the time it was written. And yet God in all His wisdom was able to inspire them to write those things.
Up for the great content!
Huau this was so good. That one about Proverbs 31 and Job suffering was 🤯. Bombastic!
Love brother Hernandez personality and passion for the Word of God.
Will try to buy his book.
Thank you for these kind words 😊
Please do more of these!
Facinating. Great guest guest show. The part on Job was especially great. Proverbs was extra provocative. Great stuff.
Thanks! Happy to read that you enjoyed it. All the best!
Thanks Darren. I agree!
@@SeanMcDowell Sean, I thought your guest demonstrated himself to be a classic PhD Archetype. His 'teaching' while voluminous was vacuous and erroneous. This is why we are instructed to use fewer words whenever the opportunity is there. David was given wives by The Most High Himself, and told if not enough, TMH would have given David more wives. *Polygyny was not & is not akin to adultery!* If you disagree, you are calling TMH a liar in His testimony to David's life found in *I Kings 15:5.* This was said of David, though he slept with multiple wives throughout his life! A single occurrence of adultery resulted in the death penalty, which David's son faced because of David's single act of Adultery with Bathsheba! Chase Messiah!
@@DrDominick Equally inspired scripture. Can you explain how inspiration is a better explanation than imagination. The plausibility aspect is off the charts.
@@manofgod3080You are theologically correct, but very wrong in bashing the speaker. Truth and mercy, truth and grace, that's the way of the Messiah. Also, you have to understand that many of these podcasters are afraid of losing their jobs and being cancelled. So, when confronted with the truth that really God never condemned polygamy, they prefer to water down the truth, but still we need to have mercy when confronting them.
Thanks a lot for this, I learned a lot!❤️
Glad it was helpful!
@SeanMcDowell more please.
So interesting. Would love to see you interviewing him again Sean
OK, Sean, I'm going to trust you to take the wheel with this one 💯
You’ll enjoy it, seriously, Dom is smart and fun!
Thanks Sean!
just me being Tongue-in-cheek😉
I appreciate how Dr. Hernandez’s explanation of Proverbs 31. Thank you.
I believe we should be seeking Christ in the Scripture, where He says we will find Him. What Scripture would that be? The Old Testament! 😊 You really can find Him in every word!!
Great episode. Loved this.
The second perspective on the Nephilim was actually something I had heard a few years back and was like…wow, how often do we read what’s on the page and not just take it at face value and instead impart some mystical meaning to them. To me, Scripture is clearly making a delineation between the Nephilim and the offspring of the sons of God and daughters of man. They are not one in the same, quite the opposite.
As for Japheth, I believe its a further testament to the time of the Judges and how little people knew the Law when there is a provision in Leviticus 5:4-6 for atoning for rash vows. Japheth certainly, morally speaking, should not have sacrificed his daughter. But also didn’t legally have to sacrifice her either.
Thank you for sharing this passage. I'm writing from my wife's account - but I myself made such a vow some time ago - reckoning it has been difficult but this passage from Leviticus certainly sheds some light on my heart, especially with the knowledge that Jesus is my sacrifice.
Tbh, I'm still baffled at the Nephilim & the context surrounding them. Maybe I'm just tired, but it feels like he said a lot without really saying anything. How do we get giants from the sons of man and daughters of man?? Unless those two phrases mean something specific, is he saying that existing humans had kids and somehow their offspring were giants???
Pretty cool that people couldn’t have imagined or lied about these passages. Just amazing how good God is at inspiring cool words.
Thanks for making such videos on OT. My question is not exactly about strange/difficult passages but can you please explain the concept of heaven/eternal life from OT perspective? Thanks.
Sean. Dr Hernandez was great. Got me thinking, I’d love to see you and Tim Mackie sit down for a conversation.
Went back and listened to this again. Took notes of some of your intelligent, pithy, statements about biblical narrative and context. Really good stuff. Hope to hear more from you in the future. God bless.
Love this guy!!!!
Sean and Dominick, my religion professor mentioned that "Go up, Baldy!" has TWO insults in it. Baldy, yes, as you mentioned, but also "Go up". Apparently that is what the ancient farmers said to their bulls to encourage them to mate. In our modern culture that would be equivalent to using the F-word. Using those two insults in a culture where personal honor was extremely important, and to a prophet of God, well, that was outrageous and needed to be addressed.
Sad that you failed to bring in the work from Dr Michael Heiser.... I'm sure your not ignorant about his book.
Such a good video
Absolutely excellent discussion from both men.
Thanks!
Fascinating!
excellent, enjoyed the conversation. Will you also have a conversation about 10 strange passages in the N.T.? (For example, I Tim. 2;8-15.)
Great suggestion! Might be something to explore!
Mike Winger has a multi part series going on YT that discusses this passage and others in exhaustive depth on the topic of women's leadership roles, worth looking at
Please do another show on this..Shalom..!
I hope that this happens! All the best!😀
Thanks and God bless you brethren( Dr Sean and Dr Hernandez) as I picked up nuggets of wisdom to equip me when interacting with our moslem brethren who throw these verses at us as they dont understand the context.Dr Sean bring Dr Hernandez back again.Will surely buy Dr Dominic's book....Ameen
I’m recently born again this past year and when I started studying the Bible, I started from Genesis on and when I tell you, it just gave me such a deep love for God and who he is, I mean it. And Jesus is written all over the Old Testament and it’s amazing to see.
Yes, we want more please.😊
This would be awesome
Good show
Jephthah’s daughter encourages her father to do all that he has promised the Lord he would do. She only asks for some time to mourn her virginity. This girl was willing to make a huge sacrifice to help her father honor his vow to the Lord. She willingly gave up the joy of becoming a wife and mother. She sacrificed the dream of every Israelite girl that was the dream of giving birth to the Messiah. She sacrificed her dreams to help her father fulfil his vow to God.
She goes away with her friends for two months and they “bewailed her virginity”. That is, they mourned with her that she would never be a wife or a mother. When she returned home, her father fulfilled his vow to the Lord and did with her the thing he promised to do. After that, v. 39 tells us that “she knew no man”. And her friends came every year for “four days” to “lament the daughter of Jephthah”, v. 40.
Now, here is the question: did Jephthah really offer his daughter up as a burnt offering to the Lord? Or, is there some other explanation for these events? This has been a hotly debated issue among theologians for thousands of years. Many good men believe that Jephthah offered his daughter up as a burnt offering to the Lord. Of course, other equally great men teach that he fulfilled his vow by dedicating his daughter to serve in the Tabernacle for the rest of her life.
Personally, I do not believe that Jephthah offered his daughter as a burnt offering. I lean toward the second interpretation. I believe that he dedicated her to serve the Lord at the Tabernacle. I believe that she remained there all her days. I believe that she remained a virgin all her life and gave herself to the will of the Lord.
Here are the reasons why I believe this is the correct interpretation.
· The language Jephthah uses in verse 31 is ambiguous. He says “Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the LORD'S, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering.” The word “whatsoever” suggests that he did not know who or what he would see first. So, it was a rash vow.
Then, when he says, “…shall surely be the LORD'S, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering.” The word “and” can also be translated as “or”. This means that if it is a person he meets, he will dedicate that person to the Lord. If it is an animal that he sees first, he will offer that animal as a burnt offering.
· God would never have approved of, or accepted, a burnt offering. Jephthah would have known about Abraham and Isaac, Gen. 22, and how the Lord intervened and prevented Abraham from actually offering up Isaac as a burnt offering. He would have known the various teachings in the Law that prevented human sacrifice, Lev. 18:21; Lev. 20:1-5; Deut. 12:30-31; Deut. 18:9-12. God would not have honored a human sacrifice, and it would be doubtful that a man guilty of such a despicable crime would be listed among the “Heroes of the Faith” in Heb. 11:32.
· While the days of the judges were a lawless time, I cannot conceive of how the men of Israel would allow Jephthah sacrifice his own daughter. When Saul made a rash vow and threatened to kill Jonathon his son, his own soldiers intervened and stopped him from killing Jonathan, 1 Sam. 14:24-46.
· Where would he have offered the sacrifice? God only accepted sacrifices offered at the Tabernacle, Lev. 17:1-9. God only accepted sacrifices offered up by Levitical priests, Deut. 16:2, 6, 11, 16. No priest would have participated in such a wicked sacrifice. Even if he had taken his daughter to Shiloh to sacrifice her, any priest there would have told him that he could spare his daughter by redeeming her for a sum of money, Lev. 27:1-8.
· I think it stands to reason that Jephthah gave his daughter to the Lord to serve in the Tabernacle with the other women who served there, Ex. 38:8; 1 Sam. 2:22. She remained a virgin for the rest of her life, v. 39. Every year, her friends came and spent four days with her helping her mourn for her unmarried, childless condition, v. 40. The word “lament” has the idea of “recounting, of telling again; of celebrating”. It is doubtful that they would gather to celebrate a sinful act, which it would have been had she been offered as a burnt offering by Jephthah. If she was going to die, why would she spend two months prolonging that the agony of knowing that her death was coming?
I agree it makes more sense for a dedication to God then sacrifice
This was my interpretation of it too.
@sunshine-co3xkyou are welcome God bless
Great comment; I also hold this understanding of the passage and think you gave a comprehensive explanation. Question though: if you have further details/references on the “and / or” translation, I would love to read them. I think it’s a persuasive point, but I don’t want to use it in my own defense if I can’t point to a valid authority on it. Thanks if you can, and God bless!
Round 2 please 😊
Chapeau Dr. Dominick!
On the nephilim, I think it's more consistent to read the "and also after that", as that this was something that happened also after the flood, but predominantly before. Also, note how the Bible describes Noah as "perfect in his generations", in the flood narrative. As in, he was not polluted by angel DNA.
Angel DNA WTF??
@@user-gs8rn8hp5nYes.
There is the concept of sacrificing your child that is they go into service to the temple. Such as in Samuel was put into service to the temple at the age of 9. And therefore Samuel was sacrificed. Even Paul refers to becoming a burnt offering.
Can we look at Jeremiah 31:22- a woman encircles a man. Also exodus 23:19- what’s up with the goats in milk? I have seen differing interpretations on these but I would like to hear how you make sense of quick interjections like these in the midst of otherwise normative passages. Loved this conversation!
Thanks for the recommendations!
I would love to see a discussion on Judges 18-21 and on the man gathering sticks in Numbers
Sean, you might also want to have Richard P. Belcher Jr. on to discuss his new book, Why Does the God of the Old Testament Seem so Violent and Hateful? (Christian Focus). Dr. Belcher is a professor at Reformed Theological Seminary, Charlotte, North Carolina.
Thank you, I wonderful period of time exploring the Bible.
If I can make one suggestion, next time before commenting about a scripture, can you either read it out or summarise it. Sometimes you did this, but sometimes not and it made it hard to follow as I didn’t have the scripture in front of me.
Great idea, thanks!
Mind blown
We don’t know it all but we have logic and an ability to compare one statement and to another that contradicts it.
Proverbs 31 ❤
Yes. yes. More please!
Would love to hear some explanation about 1 Sam 28:3-25. Was it really Samuel who came up from the earth? Does that mean that ghosts are real? Why was the medium surprised and why did seeing Samuel reveal Saul's identity to her? BTW, I loved this video, especially the explanations of Proverbs 31 and Job. Thank you!!
Glad you clarified it ISN'T the sons of Seth.
I was happy about debunking the sons of Seth teaching as well. That has always seemed foolish to me since Sunday school as a child!
With the discussion about Job, I've always wondered who wrote the book. If God never tells Job about his conversation with the devil and why Job went through all the suffering, how is it known so it could be recorded for us to read?
Really good question. This is just one of those things that we’d love to know, but that’s also never definitively stated anywhere 😊
Who was there to record the origin of the universe? Something tells me it wasnt Moses.
This is where Christians have to ad hoc explain things, because the bible itself is not enough.
Ok, the comparison between Elijah being "hairy" to the extent he had to belt it to his waist vs. Elisha asking for double portion of Elijah's power . . .
I never would have made this leap to get that . . . a superb example of how scripture supports scripture, to NOT take scripture out of context, seek out the scripture that supports the scripture in question . . .
AWESOME, THANK YOU.
The people were so accustomed to Elijah, Elisha had to prove he did indeed have that power . . . BUT the real defense was; the boys were scoffing the power of God, "you mess with God's mouthpiece, you mess with God"
This one point made the entire video worth while.
I usually never comment nor like, but this was a fantastic episode. @drdominickhernandez is such an amazing educator. Please more of these!
Absolutely amazing! I love the explanations given.
Just some thoughts on:
Nepheline - in my understanding the essence of the story told is that the DNA of mankind had been messed up. In fact when one considers, sexual wickedness carried on right after the flood without consequences. One could almost compare this with the messing up of the DNA of humans in our time? 🤔
The boys and the bears - the explanation given is excellent. I would like to extend this in the sense that this curse didn't just fall on the children, but rather on the parents, through whom the children were taught. Children learn from their parents!..
Dear @Katharina643,
The Hebrew word is "בָּקַע" - baqa = "to cleave, break open or through" (Strongs & Brown-Driver-Briggs).
This is the very same Hebrew word as is used in Exodus 14:16, 21 to describe how the waters of the "Red' Sea was divided. Should we understand the sea was "tore/mauled" when it divided ?
I don't think the idea expressed in 2 Kings 2:24 is trying to describe an incidence where the two bears killed or even significantly harmed the 42 boys. I think it is describing how the bears came and divided/parted the boys - in essence, the bears "dispersed" the group of boys - driving them apart and they ran away. There was no longer a group of 42 boys. It was not the individual boys that were divided apart, but instead the group. They were severely frighted by the bears and got sent running away.
I like this interpretation the best. It fits the text and the Hebrew words used, and it is plausible and reasonable.
Be Well,
DZ
@@Silverheart1956 Yes, this makes sense. It certainly would have been an object lesson for the parents. Much for them to think about.. the children lived to tell the story.
Dear@@Katharina643
Thank you, for the response and feed back ! And thank you for your consideration of this idea. I think it just makes the best sense of the situation and the data.
Be Well,
DZ
@@Silverheart1956 And yes, when one considers that the children were just the mouthpiece of the parents, the message of the prophet wouldn't have been delivered If the children had been killed; noone to tell the story which would have included the sighting of the prophet in connection ... Most of the parents would have understood the object lesson?
@@Katharina643 Yeah, crippled and deformed, but the kids lived. This story shows how much the God of Christians really values children.
Michael Heiser is exactly right in my opinion.
I don't think it's an opinion. When you take contemperary writings from biblical times Heiser's is the ONLY explanation. To come to a conclusion differently than Heiser about gen6, 2 Peter 2:4 and Jude 6, devine counsel, you have to ignore 2nd temple Jewish writings and traditions and just play with words and semantics to make another narrative fit. Seminary has ruined many people's theology with son's of Seth. If I can understand that God came as man and defeated death why can so many not understand that the devine counsel is real and that elohim, etc are part of God's creations and family. People are so scared of everything supernatural about God except death and resurrection. It baffles me. God has created something that is strange to us in 2023... but don't run from it. Embrace it.
yes..part 2
Thank you so much for this episode. Really fascinating!
If you do another of these episodes, I have two questions.
1) In Deuteronomy 21:10-14, rules are laid out for Israelites marrying female captives of war. I understand that this was better treatment than these women could normally expect, yet nowhere in the passage is the woman’s consent required. From a modern perspective, we’d still consider this rape. Why isn’t any mention made of the woman’s consent? Is consent just an anachronistic concept?
2) I’ve been told that slavery was different in Biblical times than in more modern times (such as in the American South before the Civil War). However, today, we condemn slavery not just because it was (is) violent and cruel but because one human being owning another is a serious violation of human rights. Again, is the idea of a violation of human rights just an anachronistic concept?
And I have another question that relates to both of these: I’ve heard both of these defended on the basis that both rape of captives of war and slavery were going to happen anyway, so God allowed them to continue but sought to regulate them. But my question is whether that couldn’t be said of just about any sin. Adultery is going to happen in spite of God’s prohibition, so why not regulate it rather than forbid it?
I ask these questions not as an atheist trying to catch the Bible out but as a Christian trying to understand why a just God doesn’t forbid unjust practices.
I really enjoyed hearing his responses! He's not afraid to say what he really thinks the Bible is communicating. So many people shrink back from these texts and makeup easier explanations for our present time. With the bear mauling the boys, hearing his explanation was very helpful. I saw it ironically being out of the grace of God, as long as the kids weren't mauled too bad lol. But they would have bore scars all their lives, and those scars would be testimony to God working in the prophet that they could share with others. I'm sure it was very effective to communicate that this prophet was God's mouthpiece. And as uncomfortable as it may be for us, it seems physical maladies were sometimes used to remind people of encounters with God. I think of when Jacob wrestled with An Angel (God) and it says his hip was struck out of the socket. It says after this encounter that he limped for the rest of his life. I used to think that was absolutely terrible! No possible good! But then I considered how it would have been a constant reminder that his encounter of the night really happened. Have you ever experienced something special with God, and then doubted as time passed that it happened? Of course some of this still makes me uncomfortable, but it seems to be a small reoccurring theme throughout the Old testament
Thanks for the nice words‼️
Dear Sean McDowell,
2 Kings 2:24:
"And he turned around, and when he saw them, he cursed them in the name of the LORD.
And two she-bears came out of the woods and tore forty-two of the boys." (ESV)
Notice: the English word "tore"; also translated "tore up", "mauled", "lacerated", "riped", in various other Translations.
The Hebrew word is "בָּקַע" - baqa = "to cleave, break open or through" (Strongs & Brown-Driver-Briggs).
This is the very same Hebrew word as is used in Exodus 14:16, 21 to describe how the waters of the "Red' Sea was divided. Should we understand the sea was "tore/mauled" when it divided ?
In 1 Kings 1:40 (likely the same writer as 2 Kings), was the earth "tore/mauled" by the rejoicing music and noise ?
I don't think the idea expressed in 2 Kings 2:24 is trying to describe an incidence where the two bears killed or even harmed the 42 boys. I think it is describing how the bears came and divided the boys - the bears dispersed the group of boys - drove them apart and they ran away. There was no longer a group of 42 boys. It was not the individual boys that were divided apart, but instead the group. They were severely frighted by the bears and got sent running away.
Elisha probably got a chuckle seeing them desperately running away in fright and thought, "That will teach them".
I think about the plausibility of the idea that two bears could actually catch 42 running boys, who were probably running in all directions to get away from the bears. Two bears could catch and maul all 42 boys ?
A Test of Plausibility,
Take two good college linebackers and 42 boys. The linebackers must run upon the group and knock/push each boy to the ground. Is it conceivable that they could catch and push all 42 boys to the ground as they are running in different directions ?
It may be possible only under specific circumstances; 1. A very stealthy sneak attack where none of the boys see them coming. 2. A very contained area where the boys were trapped and had nowhere to run (box canyon scenario).
I understand this situation to be a case where the group of boys was spilt, divided, parted, dispersed and frighten away. That is why the boys are mentioned as a group of 42.
This does fit the text, it does make sense, and it is a reasonable understanding of the situation. Yes many Hebrew words have various meanings depending on the context. I see no hard reason to say that the use in this text necessitates the violence that many people suggest. It is a legitimate understanding of the Hebrew word "בָּקַע" - baqa, within the context.
Tell me what you think !
Be Well,
DZ
*I think I got more confused NOW about the Nephilyms, when I thought I wasn't. ”After years of studying the Bible.” I feel like I should be persuaded into the guest position of not knowing? Why others scholars discernment about this subject aren't to be considered as valid?*
some OT explanations I'd like to hear more on:
Why Marion turns white but Aaron suffers nothing in Numbers
The story of Jael
The disturbing story in Samual about David's concubines when he fled the palace
My suspicion is Aaron was ONLY spared as he was in the office of high priest, as a type of Christ, it would be problematic for him to be a leper. And SO agree about David leaving concubines to watch the palace!!!
I want that book!
Enjoyed this.
May the Lord give us His help to remember these things, so that we can answer our opponents. The better we know the answers, the easier it is to explain with grace, as to a little child.
Did you mention that Jephtha is mentioned in the Heb-11 list? I wondered if, in spite of all his flaws, God appreciated his simple obedience and faith that God is.
As an Indian, using cow dung as fuel is not startling to me. Cow dung patties are flattened on walls etc in villages, and dried in the sun. The grass in the dung makes it excellent as fuel. But human excrement is gross.😮
Wonder what Dominick thinks about Heisser's material. I guess in 10 years, things will settle better on that front, but it is hard for the average Christian to know what to do with that material as it is still quite unknown. :)
Btw, Sean, I praise God for you. Your material is graciously presented and very easy to understand, and so useful. Can't be long before, I get to come and say hi and thank you in person.
Hey Sean, would you mind doing timestamps on your videos?
That’s on my list to try and do, thx!
So much here!!! It's like drinking from a waterhose!
Thanks Sean for doing this episode 👍🏼
The test of the bitter waters is interesting in light of Israel's idolatry at Sinai when Moses broke the tablets (scraped off the words) and ground up the calf to make polluted waters for Israel to drink as a curse.
You say the OT is really old. I remember seeing the 50,000 year old lion man sculpture in the British Library. It's the oldest human sculpture we have. That's really old. It makes the OT seem modern by comparison.
Interesting discussion of Interesting texts. It is not necessary to conclude that Jephthah, who was not a priest, offered up his daughter as a ritual sacrifice. Furthermore, the Levitical priesthood was not permitted to make human sacrifices. The circumlocution of the text in regard to the carrying out of the vow of Jephthah, compared to the directness of the vow, should give pause to such an assumption. Some consider the emphasis on Jephthah's daughter's virginity to involve a switch from death as a burnt offering to a life of celibacy. The emphasis on her virginity may also indicate that Jephthah's daughter was still under parental authority, and not under the authority of a husband, in the culture of the day, thus explaining the unfolding of perplexing events that took place. Quite frankly, this passage needs to be viewed organically, as must the reports of heathen nations sacrificing their children to other gods, and not piecemeal. Unfortunately, Jephthah's background included a potential climate for syncretistic religious elements to affect him and his warriors, which might surface in spite of the best efforts of his more orthodox Israelite compatriots, and of the divinely diffident narrator of Judges 11. Verses 1-3 describe the disrepute associated with Jephthah's birth, and his exclusion from Gilead to the land of Tob, where "worthless men banded together with Jephthah and went out raiding with him" (NKJV). Jephthah's vow in Verses 30 and 31 is direct, but the carrying out of this vow in verses 34-40 is described with considerable circumlocution, resulting in different possible interpretations, which have indeed characterized the reading of this passage through the ages. Hence, the whole passage needs to be grasped organically, as must also the accounts of human sacrifices in non-Isrealite nations, which did not afflict each household identically. It has been observed by some students of Scripture that Leviticus 1:3 limits burnt sacrifices to unblemished, clean animal males. Therefore, the ritual sacrifice of Jephthah's daughter was doubly forbidden in Israelite worship, because she was human and because she was female. Hence, it may be concluded that Jephthah clearly organized an alternative fate for her, which, in the text, is related to her virginity and non-marriage. The significant opaqueness or obscurity of the text may very simply reflect that the case or issue of Jephthah's vow, and its execution on his daughter, were not resolved by the end of his notably short tenure as Judge of all of Israel for six years (Judges 12:7), nor by the time of writing; and it may also be observed that neither Jephthah's military exploits for Israel, nor his handling of his vow in regard to his daughter, were able to extend his tenure as Judge of Israel, for this was in the hands of God. This unresolved, relative opaqueness of the human sacrifice issue in Judges 11 may be usefully contrasted with the full resolution and full clarity of the near sacrifice of Isaac, by his father, Abraham, in Genesis 22. Judges 11:37-40, and particularly verses 39-40, do not equate to a contemporary, annual, feminist protest, but encapsulate something equally powerful: an annual four-day lament from Israelite daughters over Jephthah's daughter, which constrains both the text and its readers to remain accountable to God and his children, in view of the personal sacrifices of parents and children for the cause of God.