Why EXPENDABLE units can actually be VALUABLE - Total War Tactics: Warhammer 3
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- čas přidán 28. 06. 2024
- Today we talk about those useless gits of the army that... maybe aren't actually totally useless?
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The lord: "show me that fork that you are going to use against those annoying blood knights"
"It's just a regular fork, milord, the one that I use in the fields..."
"It's a good fork, it will get the job done" said the lord, mounting on his hippogriph.
The funny part is in medieval times peasants would actually be taught to cut wood to properly create barricades against Knights those sharp barriers that if a knight were to try to jump over it would get impaled by the sharp wood getting killed these barriers were called tilt surprisingly deadly against Knights also because peasants were poor they didn't wear armor and had the cheapest weapons possible so they were faster than most units so if a unit of knights were to fall to a trap like this and some survived they would get swarmed and murdered by peasants horrible way to go trust me
Wouldn't actually be murdering knights/men at arms, mind you, because anyone able to afford a horse and/or fancy armor would be a valuable captive and likely held for ransom.
@@psybanatheplatypus3184unless you're fighting the Swiss or Hussite 😅
@@psybanatheplatypus3184 Tell it to Lithuanians at Grunwald lmao
It should be noted that peasants weren't that common of a sight in medieval battlefields.
One of the major reasons why many peasants gave up their freedom in exchange for serfdom is that by law, unfree people had no obligation to do military service, whereas free ones did. And at some points in time, there were almost no free peasants left in medieval Europe, leaving the fighting to be done by knights and their retainers, and later on you start seeing increasing numbers of men-at-arms being hired as mercenaries.
"We're just zombies, sir. We're supposed to be expendable!"
Ghorst- "Not to me."
Awwwwwww❤
*cough* It's : we are meant to be expandable *cough*
Problem for me with expendable units is they take up an army slot and i like to keep those supply costs down
With the right mods, your vampires can summon a whole lot of zombies! I agree though, it does suck that they take up a spot.
In the late game, yes, but in the early game they are valuable.
Create a expendable army. I usually have 2 combo army in tandem at all times. 1 main army.. And 1 expendable army. They move together. Confugure that general for cheap unitn build and its pretty much a free army
Expendable units are incredibly cheap precisely so you can spam them. It's better to fill up the slots with expendables and slowly switch them out with your mainstays rather than walking around with half a stack and basically asking to get jumped. A full stack with a lot of expendables also means you can take over settlements faster to get the economy up or rebuild ruins cheaper.
Well this tactics is obviously targeted to multyplayer i think, as in single player like you sayd there is not reason to pick them
I love to have lord with main/strong army and 2nd lord with 19 zombies
Zombies flank and attack from "behind" while main units charge from "front"
I absolutely love recruiting cheap ass zombies in my empire armies in co-op. Need a frontline anchor and "target" for your artillery? Get some zombies! Need to lock down some fast movers after they've hit your lines? You guessed it, zombies!
zombies can't lock anything down these days cuz of the cav changes
@@Weberkooks ghorst zombies
@@trizick5379 Ghorst Zombies are elite units
As a Ratling Gunner stan I wish we could shoot through expendable units..... you know, for the cause.
given skaven culture I'm honestly a bit surprised that never made it into the game
"Friendly fire? We call those acceptable casualties"
There's mods that let you do just that.
"Looks like Meat is back on the menu Boys."
@@akaon666what’s the name of the mod?
im gonna be an expendable unit when ww3 comes around, so good to learn how ill be used
What do you meeeeean, Ghorsts Zombies ARE the Elite unit in his Roster :D
I hate fighting him as Ogres, a juiced up zombie takes half an ogre bull's life... It's just goddamn annoying
Good use for goblins is using them to concentrate trolls into, as trolls have poor leadership but won't lose any when goblins die
"There's a lot of good useful ways to die. Jesus Christ...." I was concerned about where you were going with that for a half-second.
I was gonna make the same comment😂😂
5:01 Damn that one skeleton is shivering like mad, I think he is having flashbacks from his previous life as human.
Expendable unit in life
Expendable unit in death
Also, big shoutout to Skink Javelins, the most dangerous low tier unit in the game.
Skink Javelins are no joke one of the best units on the Lizardmen roster.
@@ktvindicare easily. Cheap and easy to recruit, yet capable of astonishing acts of violence. And they get a LOT of campaign buffs.
Especially with Oxyotl, they can stay useful until late game
"Dont leave your kids with this guy"
Why do you think I sent him to war without armour or a proper weapon
Bravo
I use expendable as meat shield/flanker/ baits/gap filler(if you have extra spot in your army just throw them in) and in campaign it’s an very cheap army to keep order of your settlements
Oh also some spells will explode a unit to do damage around them or you can use them to pin down strong unit and use magic that has area effects
Zerkovich, are you sure you're not a Tau Ethereal?
I really like when I have a garrison that has just very low health units; I deploy them ahead of my main army just to get the first charge or first volley of the enemy and die.
I love goblins, I have played many campaigns with mostly first tier goblins in my armies, they do suck but just the amount of them I can field paired with some elite units and the whaagh makes the goblintide into an unstoppable force.
Greenskins and also skavens have been a favourite of mine to play recently.
Funny one and I like it ;) Love the looks of those units! I don't even play this game but keep watching, lol
Ngl I have made absolute miracles happen with gobbos. Once they get a couple of tech upgrades and you give them the scrap armor, they become INCREDIBLY tanky with 50+ armor
Great video. Too many videos pretend this game is all about honorable duels & 1-v-1 fights and then base a unit's value on that. That's not how war works. Skaven's entire gimmick is focused around expendable skavenslaves/clan rats to make their otherwise bad individual units be able to setup or get into position to actually do their jobs. People who say trolls are bad don't use them alongside goblins. Just like how Kroxigars are a skink's best friend, the same goes for trolls & expendable goblins.
Wanted to thank you immensely for your work. It’s entertaining, encouraging, funny, and brilliantly orchestrated. Wanted to just say thanks.
Love expendable Chaos marauders (Gift of Chaos disables their replenishment, reduces upkeep by 50% and makes them and the horsemen expendable), they can either be rewarded for suriviving by upgrading them to Warriors, or either letting them die, or turn them into Forsaken and Spawns.
Lizards also have the Skink Cohorts at 160 unit size and low cost , and surprisingly better then slaves, zombies or peasants at least at base stats, and skinks are definately fast.
Trash mobs are also good for another strategy you showed us, Hammer and Anvil
that squeleton be tripping at 5:00
also the kung fu elves are impressive how did I never notice that
They feel on brand for Skaven to pin tougher lizards in place so the mortar/ spells have an easier target.
5:02 Savage move from the Ushabti Great bow. My dude is not getting up after that
I always keep a second army of expendables to follow the main army. Their job is to just tire out the enemy.
They can also detach small units to try different paths in an unknown territory.
For that second reason, its good to keep units that are almost elimitnated except for a few guys left. They become very cheap and are great as expendable scouts.
If you are playing with the SFO mod, vigor matters a lot more. So if the enemy elites spend some time to chew up your expendable units, when you attackthem with the elites they are already tired.
I mean I recall one army that was like... five rattling gunners, and rat slaves that took on decent full armies... It was pretty cheap, since no one could get through the mass of flesh while the gunners just slaughtered everyone... rat slaves included. Obviously they were eventually replaced, but early game I had only one settlement that could recruit gunners, they took a decent chunk of my economy on their own, so even decent units would overstrain it, and even better I didn't even have to build anything to replace full stacks..
I love how gobbos look mean and gnobbos look kinda cute like a rly old man or one of those cats
the problem with these unit is they cost a slot. That slot could be inserted by a more high value unit. Unless it's zombie that doesn't runaway and actually had 12k health with regeneration, expendable unit is usually doesn't worth it.
What if you only have enough for 1 Expendable unit (theoretically)?
Beastman with free upkeep and 0 recruitment cost: let's us introduce ourselves.
@muhammadsaduddin308 That's what usually ruins it for me too. Skaven slaves are probably the worst example as clanrats are already cannonfodder but generally do the same job more effectively. The difference in cost isn't that big and sadly these expandable units take up the same amount of slots in your army as proper units.
I feel like you could solve this by creating another army that follows your actual army around.
@@danedaner1357 well, another army means more supply cost.
Unless you are bretonnia, but then it costs a peasant slot which could be an archer
Zombies and skavenslaves slingers... Yeah, they work out.
Besides that? Useless in campaign if you are at least average in skill level.
Unless you go for a themed army/playthrough ofc, then everything goes
You can also use them to blob up the enemy for the use of huge AOE damage such as C.dwarf quake mortars and scaven doom rockets. You loose a crapy unit but take out huge numbers of the enemy's
you forgot about the main use : holding down units for them to catch magic/doomrocket.
My Grom doesn't like using Orcs so the Goblin spearmen are my frontline, with the Scrap armour and buffs to get to that 70-odd armour plus various leadersip buffs stacking up they can see off stronger units while the Trolls make a mess.
Not to mention pinning a unit in place so you can hit it with Comet of Cassandora or something similar.
step 1: fight ikit claw
step 2: hide all your units in a forest
step 3: summon a unit on top of the enemy frontline (or backline whichever is scarier)
step 4: nuclear friendly fire.
This is why I still flagellant spam with Volkmar even in late-game. Flagellants are absolute beasts at holding the line because they're unbreakable, even as volleys of handgunner bullets and rockets hit them in their backs. They out-Skaven the Skaven!
That last part goes in the book, you damn T'au lover! :D
You're a star buddy love the videos always gets me back to playing
Goblin warriors = Anvil.
Either Goblin wolfriders, squighoppers or nasty skulkers = Hammer in the rear.
It works surprisingly well against a more expensive unit. 😀
I almost always have a pair of poison warhounds in any army that can take them. If I can rout it, it’s getting wiped out!
Missed the best campaign use: Send out 2 peasant mobs to bait 4 enemy units each to buy time for your 12 missile units to pewpew on em at optimal range
Some factions excel at using them. Rictus, for example, buffs up Clanrats with one point of armor and base damage every level. At full XP, that's more than a 34% increase! Not too shabby. And Ghorst's zombies are... something else.
Gobbos with Grom is one of my favorite things
Of course, if you are playing vampire counts then you can just make armies full of skeletons. The entire army is totally expendable and costs basically nothing to maintain, but they can still do some attritional damage, keep public order up in your tumultuous provinces and drain enemy units' stamina so that the garrisson can kill off an attacker more easily.
A couple of people have already commented it but what is opportunity cost you save from taking this unit as opposed to a better version of the trash? Does the couple hundred gold a turn saved really help you out that much?
The entire reason Vampire Counts have Dead Rise Again and Raise Dead is so that you'll always have disposable chaff to wear the enemy down with. I am particularly fond of using Vargheists as my special forces to supplement them and the lords/heroes.
"All of you will probably die. But that's a sacrifice I am willing to make!"
Lots of people not even considering multiplayer or the possibility of budgeting on harder difficulties
So whats the expendable unit for lizardman? Skink cohort with or without javs? Cuz they do very decently onced buffed
I'm playing Ogres and my best performing army uses Gnobblar trapper's to soak the charge AND avoid ironguts getting enveloped. It's just a must have... I tried full Ogres and had a bad time with it. Poison laiden expendable units are just premium
Slayer: I've lost my honour! I must die!
Players: No.
Slayer: WTF!?!
Skaven slave: I was born 2 weeks ago! I want to live-live!
Players: No.
Skaven slave: WTF-F!?!
Archaon: I will destroy the world!
Games Workshop: Well, yes, but actually no.
Archaon: WTF!?!
2:47 what is the key combination to drag and rotate like that without changing the unit formation?
Never mind the fact that Expendable units can be used to also flank your enemies keep your enemies distracted with a good unit that can hold off this stuff or even another Expendable unit and have the other Expendable unit going behind their back and attack them from the rear which will of course give a debuff to their leadership you can also do this with the Lord the point is if they're bogged down they're probably going to spend all their energy fighting and their leadership's going to go to shit and you can probably kill them hopefully
Currently doing this with Miners, since DWarriors are no longer tier-0. Theyre cheap, theyre bad in melee, theyre slow, but damn do they hack through city gates like nobody's business.
Begin operation human shield.
Though zombie only campaigns can be funny until the gpu starts giving you single digit fps battles.
Another note, expendable units being in combat with enemy valuable units lowers their vigor which can increase the odds for the rest of your army
I still won´t go around with my army having Expendable Units in it when a bunch of heroes can do the same AND survive while doing some REAL damage, though that´s campaign tactics.
No one expects the expandable units to be a threat, and yet they are to those who underestimate them.
Have them support the main units like they're supposed to and they might just win the battle. Because a sharp pitchfork or rusted sword wielded by a random peasant or Skavenslave is still a sharp object that can stab the enemy.
New zerkovich video :)
Channel your inner Zapp Brannigan.
Goblins suck until you play as skarsnik or Grom. Especially Grom. Turning goblins into godblins.
The problem with expendable units is that , regardless of how low their upkeep is, they have a great cost of actually taking a slot in your army, the is never a reason to put an expendable unit in your army as one of 20 units, if you can avoid it and take something that will actually have be useful. All the described uses of expendable units solve problems caused by taking expendable units in the first place, except maybe soaking up charges and sponging up enemy frontline attacks. With the charges being easily mitigated by attacking charging cav from the side with literally anything, this makes expendable units only useful for getting ground to dust instead of your stronger frontline units - which again, can be avoided in one a of thousand ways. Let's take the example of skavenslaves soaking up the cav charge so that that skulkers and boar cav can attack. The skavenslaves are almost completely unnecessary in this situation. Without them, enemy cav would charge the skulkers, but would be hit in the side by the board cav, which would stop the enemy charge, and then skulkers would join the fray and do their thing.
Honestly, 99% of the time expendable units aren't worth the time to click to recruit unless you can't afford to upkeep frontline units, unless you're playing Bretonia and you get off on plowing heavy cavalry through your own peasants.
Mix in supply lines
All great movements require a few martyrs.
Dying for the "greater good" i like this!
Im trying to play the game. I downloaded it, but the loading times are anything but short. Am i doing something wrong?
I have it stored on a 500gb HDD. Is the hdd the problem? Need ssd for such a big game?
Unfortunately an SSD is probably the way to for a game like this
there is no better sacrifice than those of others'
For everone saying that they take up a slot in your army, consider thar garrisons often have chaff infantry.
The premade garrisons is one of the worst features of Total Warhammer, they are absolutely worthless most of the time.
Unless your army of actually good units made it there on time, the garrison is basically dead 99% of the time.
The garrison is 1. Free 2. Truly expendable 3. Useless in most cases without support as well as 4. Gets sieged down in cases 3 is not applied
Witch elves were winded, not tired
Eh, in campaign thanks to the 20 unit limit you're still better off ambushing/lightning striking with a doomstack or elite army rather than having 3 balanced army that include expendable units for the same price. Unless you're ghorst of course.
Remember guys, all rats are expendable!
never been this early, but are the Battle AI good now?
When was the last time you played? They did separate stat buffs from AI capabilities, so that's good and you can tune both. If you engage "normally", it's OK, but there's plenty of ways to cheese it still. AI difficulty is more about dodging artillery and spells than actual tactical acumen, though.
On higher difficulties, they are. Obviously, the lower difficulties are meant to be easy so the AI doesn't play too tactically.
@@arthanor9631 i don't actually own WH3, but i own most total war games, Except Three kingdom and Pharaoh. the recent title doesn't seems to have an actual improvement in the Battle AI so i stop buying total war series. just wondering how good is it now, so i could decide to try or not.
my biggest issue is unit clumping and blobbing, they never reserving unit and recycle fresh unit and tired in and out
@euricoaw1535 well then I wouldn't say it has changed appreciably. It is better at dodging artillery and spells than WH2, has "better" target priority so it's harder to waste it's ammo, does use a main battle line and flanking units, but otherwise hasn't changed all that much.
WH3 is for playing with/against more factions and reworks like Warriors of Chaos, Empire or Dwarves which improved a lot. It's not fundamentally different from 2.
Recent chatter is that there is little improvement to AI because the guiding thought within CA is that players have fun when they "outsmart" the AI and they don't want "fair" matches. Hence it gets cheats to upkeep, recruitment and replenishment to cover up the huge losses suffered at the hands of the player, just so it can lose more, as that's what the players enjoy.
I'd love to see a competent AI without cheats, but apparently that's not coming. 🤷♂️
Depends.
In a field battle, the AI handles melee armies reasonably well. They'll usually make a super wide line, and make sure their infantry charge reaches your frontline at the same time as their cavalry charge attacks your backline. They tend to ignore single unit entities you migh try to tie them up with, and instead charge you. Often abusing units with high mass and collission to pull straight through halberds and spears to attack the ranged units behind them.
Granted, it still struggles to use ranged armies properly, and really struggle with sieges. You can also confuse them with enough effort, though it'll take more work than it did in game 1 and 2.
They would perform better than they otherwise wood elf? Starting to hear weird stuff after watching his videos
Luv me skink armies, simple as
Ah yes, the Speed Bump. 😅
they're useful to fill the slot
Suspected Tau.
The issue with expendable units is that armies have limited slots. They have a place early game but but turn 10+ I dont really see a use for em.
depends on your faction. as vampire counts i have zombie stacks up until the end game because they’re pretty much only there to soak up damage and make the enemy blob up for winds of death
@@archdornan3694 Fair enough I havent played VC in a long while so I might have just been playing factions where chaff falls to the way side quicker.
This isnt a problem in Warhammer 3. Just bring more armies. It was a big problem in WH2 because Supply Lines was a 20% upkeep increase per army which was insane. In WH3 it's much much less so you can spam additional armies of low tier stuff out and just bring extra armies of garbage around to follow your main army and provide them with cannon fodder when they need it. This is especially useful for Skaven and Vampire Counts.
ive got the feeling somtimes that 20 units per army is not enough :c
Hmm, expendable units cost s half slot?
Too few elves died during creating this video.
3:00
While this sounds good on paper, it only works if the enemy has less units than you, like on the timestamp, where the AI has 10 units while the player has 19.
In campaign, this philosophy won't be able to be applied too much since outside of the first 5-10 turns, you're gonna face 20 stack against 20 stack.
Works just fine. Just cause the enemy has a 20 stack, doesn't mean they have enough units to match your infantry. If they load up on artillery or archers their front will be hard pressed to keep your wall of infantry from over running and such.
Worse case, just bring a second or third army of chaff.
How are zombies expendable? They never die (if you have ghorst)
2 words.
Helman Ghorst.
Now tell us how to counter your expendable unit tactics.
I'd like a sort of dedicated slots for the army where, as an example, there are two extra slots for artillery type units, making the total army count go from 20 to 22. Same for other "not so often used unit types" or something. :P
Great
Well the answer was there in the first minute that outside multiplayer and very early game their a waste of space when you're capped at 20 units, where putting another better unit in their place will do their job better and survive the battle so you can unit replenish and reduce downtime to globally recruit.
Also feeding druchii kills is a bad idea as that just lets them proc their racial.
Supply lines mechanic in this game is detrimental to gameplay and should have been removed years ago
Well if you can afford it why not just have an army of top tier units. That survive, inflict damage, gain experience and become even better.
If you don’t have units that often get annihilated that means less time wasted re-recruiting and recovering your armies when with a full stack of elites you can more often just keep attacking.
"if" is doing ALOT of carrying here...
If you want to hold a region defensively you might not want a expensive army sitting in a area.
Top tier units have their own cons.
* The enemy will run away. Leading you to always have to go on a wild goose chase.
* You can't recruit many armies.
* Healing takes time for elite units while you can just recruit expendables at the end turn.
@@Matt-lk5ngespecially if you’re playing multiplayer. Single player you might as well go for doomstacks
@@AdomewAnd for empire and dwarfs these days, 1 lord and 1 warmachine are passable doomstacks.
Is this a video about tactics or did he really just want to show us peasants getting slaughtered?
Yes.
Dont call upon jesus. Pray to the God ofJesus
I hate the tau
I’m no regular church-goer, but “there’s plenty of useful ways to die, Jesus Christ!” seems a touch insensitive.
This is clearly a Tau propaganda video
Clanrats actually deal some damage against the right target, slaves however...
This only works if you have more squads. If not, then it doesn't even make sense to take them either. That's why it's so difficult to use this cannon fodder in the company. You will always meet a full army of the enemy, with better units than you have, and the meaning of this "shield" disappears.
Take a chaff army as support then.
@@skeith1543 If you need to bring 2 armies to beat 1 you've already lost the cost and strategic efficiency battle.
@@skeith1543 If you're bringing a second army, why not make it a second elite army? That's not really addressing the slot issue. If chaff units increased the number of available slots, then you might have a point.