Is Being a Music Snob is a Good Thing?
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- čas přidán 1. 10. 2023
- I have a confession to make...I think I might be an elitist snob. Today I'm debating whether or not elitism has any role to play in music, culture and the music business? Should we feel shame for the music we listen to? I'm here with my producer Jenny May Finn who is taking the role of what we might think somebody who listens to more "mainstream" music might feel. What do you think? Am I just a snob or am I right? Comments please!!
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What do you think? Am I right? Or am I a snob? Also Jenny May does listen to good music and not just stuck in an Olivia Rodrigo loop. She feels she took on this role a bit too seroiusly and ruined her reputation 😂 (e.g. she introduced me to Louis Cole)
I don't think it's being a snob, you like what you like! I mean I hate the Grateful Dead, but I appreciate what they did.
Jenny May Finn is hilarious. She owns the tastes of the characters she portrays. "I like to sing along, i'm a swity.'
Jenny’s playing the role perfectly. She need not worry. She’s brilliant here as usual.
Your only confession is that you haven't done Dirt Miller's Kansas City.
Keef Richards had a great go at hip hop and pop, so you’re in good company. Put it out there. Jenny May show is my fav. Who’s the other guy? Loving it…
The 'are you still listening to that?' statement is beyond ridiculous.
Music has no sell by date.
Just like, "It's before my time".
"Are you still listening to that?" - the height of music snobbery.
im genX - agree with JH all the way. Recently had a friend stay with me (in her early 30's) and she Shazamed a song I was playing rather than ask me! Technology has destroyed social interactions. In my day you had to go to a record store, talk to a person - now spotify recommends. Gross. money doesnt buy good taste, time invested in deeper knowledge/exploration always shows. Trends these days are manufactured BS.
Gen x as well.... I'll steal that one! 'Money doesn't buy good taste'
I think we're all snobs in our own way, even if we just keep it internal. I know there are plenty of times where i've caught myself being snobby and had to tell myself to just listen and then I start to enjoy it more.
And many cult leaders smile .
I have worked in a couple record stores , being a female and giving my input in a band or my favorite producers , this more than not caused a bit of a reaction. The vinyl mafia , is beyond measure in its ability to be absolutely miserable. It’s mostly a boys club . I actually found when I was a college radio dj , I got less flack . I did a show which showed the connection of new bands that have a strong influence to the older bands . It was a blast 💥 have a great day , enjoy your honest appreciation of music
When I hear old bands influence on newer bands, I call them echoes , and I love discovering them!
Really enjoyed your devil’s 🥑 and when you said « familiarity should not be confused with quality » I believe you are spot on. It feels you were having a conversation on at least three levels with Jenny May. One is about your level or capacity to appreciate music not only as a sensitive person (capturing all the nuances) but also as an educated pair of ears and brain (having the knowledge and experience to understand the quality). the second dimension of your conversation seemed to be more about how music makes you feel (here familiarity and certain beats do have a physical impact - you know it from the episode about healing power of music) which links to third level about culture (how your brain was habituated in childhood). Anyway, your conversation was very stimulating and inspired me to reflect on these topics. I have found that the more people have traveled and been exposed to different cultures, the more they can appreciate the nuances and be open to new and « better » music ;o) That’s my two cents ✨💛✨
This episode sparked the exact musical snobbery argument between my wife and I 😂
Ive worked at several record stores in my youth and we were such snobs! Watching the movie high fidelity reminded me so much of those days. I also dumped a guy after looking over their cd collection ...guess im a snob
Justin. You are NOT a snob. You just have GREAT taste in music. It seems like the "artist" of today can't come up with anything original ,so they go back and steal great licks or beats from classics hits. I guess it tcould be seen as an attempt to honor an artist from the past, but COME ON...anyone who would rap over a Burt Bacharach song is pushing the envelope and NOT in a good direction, IMO. Most of the bands that you have featured have been my favorites as well. Since I live in the USA & in the Mid South , I'm not as familiar with some of the artists that you've mentioned , but I always give them a listen and have been extremely impressed with your recommendations. Thank you. I can always trust that the songs or bands you turn me on to will knock my socks off. Also, I was very happy to hear that a dear friend of mine Jimi Jamison , who sadly passed away a few years ago , was included on one of your playlist ( I believe it was the list you said was your favorite workout playlist). He would have been very tickled about that. He was a sweetheart, a prankster extraordinaire, and so humble about his talent . He is dearly missed. We just named a street after him in Memphis. I really hope that The Darkness will include Memphis on a future tour schedule at some point. I have always LOVED "Permission to Land", but I'm like a kid in a candy store enjoying your new music. Love your Podcast too! I never miss an episode. The best of luck to you & stay safe on your tour. Keep the great stuff coming. ❤🤘🤘
There are *many* great contemporary, newer, bands and artists who aren't simply stealing licks or beats from artists of the past. Then again, for better or worse, more than a few great bands of the past, such as Led Zeppelin, shamelessly took licks or beats from older blues musicians, and sometimes, without crediting them, too. That isn't a new artistic tendency. In any event, the fact that you write "artist" of today in *quotations* indicates that you don't think there *are* many great, new, innovative musical artists anymore. These artists still exist, and they are out there *in droves* , making great new music and touring. I search for them, find them, and love many of them, and I'm 50 years old. They just aren't found in the top ten, or on most big, commercial radio platforms, anymore, in today's more fragmented musical world.
He is a snob, and you like him because you're also a snob.
I love your chats with Jenny May! The exchange is always great!
Came here to say exactly that. ;)
I think that ‘music snobbery’ is all about a group of people thinking a specific type of music ‘isn’t real music’.
I often hear this argument about pop music in particular - where people equate the simple lyrics and melodies as ‘not real music’.
I think it’s a shame because as much as people might not believe it, there is a certain songwriting craft to writing a pop song. It might not have the deepest lyrics or melody or have a huge emotional impact, but like Jenny has echo’s, sometimes music can just be fun. Something to listen to in a car or dance mindlessly in a club to a simple beat.
I’m a sucker for listening to and writing ‘deep resonating lyrics’ but I’m learning more and more that sometimes a fun mindless song can be art too. As long as it makes someone happy, who’s to say that someone’s music ‘isn’t real’ or ‘isn’t as good as x’
5:20 Snobbery *is* the right word, Justin. There’s an elitism in the music world, both in fan bases and within the musicians in the genres. I see a lot of it in the metal genres, and am guilty of being a musical snob at times.
I could write a book on it, but I would rather relax, try to wake up, and enjoy your conversation with my favorite producer. Cheers
Great episode. I think there’s s little bit of music snob in each of us. Like food snobbery or academic elitism, it’s usually people who have the most knowledge about music (history, theory, composition, production, etc) who hold the loftiest views; but then they’ve worked/trained to such heights, and can deconstruct suboptimal sounds to the nth degree. Elitism can’t be helped in such cases, because it’s generally been learned. For the record, JDH, I learn a lot about music theory and production from your criticisms (as well as analysis), and love hearing what moves you, and what leaves you cold, and why! Thanks so much!
*a
I like you and the " Finn" together. She draws answers from you that might not have been asked by anyone else.... well done very enjoyable
I am really really enjoying this :D great chat! as a DJ in a METAL club back in the day I saw this mentallity all time. Everytime somebody asked for a song froma popular rock band it was always going to be the most obvious of tracks from said band that would get people on the floor.
Disturbed - Down With The Sickness
Metallica - Enter Sandman
Nirvana - Smells Like Teen spirit etc etc
Yet, you would get these snobs that would still ALWAYS ask for the B-side, rare or unreleased songs from said bands that when i did play from time to time would completely empty the dancefloor... obviously!
Still for them, they dd this to proove to their mates (and me I assume) that they knew more about a certain band than anyone else. Of course when I refused I would get the usual "How do you not have/know that song"
Music snobbery 101!
Hahaha listening to you react to the burt bacharach sample made my day
Lovely to see you Mr H. This is my evening viewing 👍
I spent last 3-4 years obsessively listening to Knower, Louis Cole, Genevieve and Thump, so coming here and hearing Justin praise them has me in pieces ❤ Please please have them on the pod!!
I'd love to have Louis Cole on the podcast but not sure he would want to come on!
@@JustinHawkinsRidesAgain we'll badger him till he comes! 😃
Ooh just started this episode, and love Knower, Louis, Genevieve... now I'm excited ❤
Nice discussion both of you! Justin, if you feel like a challenge (and an interesting piece to review) try A Plague of Lighthouse Keepers 😉
Excellent conversation. I enjoyed it thoroughly. Thanks for letting us sit at your table and listen in. I might lean to the snob side but then again I'm 60.
14 year olds are just as snobby don’t worry.
Excellent episode! I have this conversation with my daughter frequently. She is a "swifty" and I can absolutely respect that she can write a catchy hook and is a talented and smart business woman, but to me a lot of it sounds the same. I agree music appreciation should be a required course in school! When my daughter was really young, I used our frequent road trips between SF and LA to school her on all the classics from different genres as well as some avant gaurd stuff. Now that she is a musician herself, she always thanks me for doing that.
I've been called a "music snob" before by friends or acquaintances. My entire life I've always listened to music that is alternative, obscure, on the edge, etc etc and other than the classic bands of the 60's & 70's, always refrained from mainstream music, ESPECIALLY top 40/pop. In retrospect however, being called a music snob may have occurred upon me sarcastically sneering at people's mainstream/pop choices, so fair play! 🤷🏻♂😂
To be fair, and play Devils 🥑 there is some mainstream music that gets it right
Edit - very rare occurrence but it does occur
I absolutely love how you can give huge props to the old songs, Burt Bacharach and Dionne Warwick? Come on! I love it! I drive people crazy when I know not only the song, but who wrote it, who’s playing the drums, etc.
I love that you do that. Really loved the show today. ❤
My taste tells me I hate what Doja? did with walk on by. Coming in with the B word ... nope. To me it sucks. To another they like it. Am I a snob if I think someone who likes it has no taste?
Justin, I agree with you about bands that churn out Big Macs, and flog it as music. The last time I saw my Bassist, in 2003, he told me I had to listen to a band called "The Darkness." I was far more Dire Straits, Steely Dan, Elvis Costello, REM, XTC, et al., listener than "metal" (which he described it as) at the time, and as a result, despite his explanations kept falling on deaf ears. That was snobbery on my part, and I have learned better, the difference between taste, and so much absolute dross.
There is some very popular stuff from pre-2000 that I still couldn't force down with a stick...and even much more since, but you hit the point. Sting told Rick Beato, "If there isn't surprise in the first 8 or so bars, I am distracted", That is where I am 100% behind your stance. If music isn't harmonically surprising or interesting, it is equal to cookie cutter musicianship, and I am annoyed. My wife on the other hand will say things like:: "Why do you have to analyze everything, why can you not just enjoy it?" To which I retort, "If no one ever listened down thru for every note, time changes, modulation, and analyzed things, you'd have no good music.". Much of it it is taste, but indeed, most of it has no taste at all, just decimals in financial accounts.
See You Oct 11!
-trout
These introductions are class.
Completely validating my raging musical snobbery, thank you! *puffs out chest and crows*
Great video, loved it!
Question for comments day: how does your snobby side explain your fondness of Gunther? (if we disregard his hilarious videos and only focus on the music)
Growing up, I was heavily influenced by my Dad in both my music taste and the manner in which I consumed music. My Dad was and still is a “taste elitist”, dismissing artists for little or no reason, often because they were popular & when pressed for a reason would assert “well they’re just crap aren’t they?”. I grew up with the same mentality, often dismissing popular music just because my peers enjoyed it and most of my parents music because it was “old people songs”. While this served me well in finding different and obscure bands, (cough…*The Darkness* …), that I still adore today, I think it was detrimental in that it precluded me from listening to some extraordinary music which I only opened up to in my 30’s. As little as 5 years ago I wouldn’t have dreamed of choosing to listen to Led Zep, AC/DC, The Eagles, Eric Clapton, Bill Withers, even Ren & Yungblud etc, etc… but now they’re some of my favourite artists. (Yeah, I know, about time too! 😅) These days I’m still a music snob, looking down on & being judgemental towards the likes of Maroon 5 and Doja Cat but now I make a point of never dismissing an artist out of hand. Basically, don’t judge it before you try it. You might be missing out on something incredible!
On the subject of Beatles hatred, *some* of us were mentally t*rtured by our bosses playing the same 12 track Beatles album on repeat 8 hours a day, 5 days a week for NINE YEARS! Yes I did have a mental breakdown (though not entirely due to The Beatles) and no, I will never be able to enjoy the Beatles ever again! 😫
Very thought provoking. Love this.
I do absolutely the same thing as Jenny May… get a so-so song in my head, listen almost exclusively (usually in secret) for days to weeks, and then never again. I’ve heard people attribute this tendency to being neurodiverse, though I’m not sure if that’s the whole story. But obviously it’s something in the brain that likes the easy, repetitive rhythm. It would be interesting to see how the brain reacts on an MRI while we’re “stuck” in the loop. I’m sure there is dopamine involved as well.
Thank you both. Love your content.
Thank you so much again Sandra ❤️❤️❤️
Love this channel. Justin you are great.
tbh i was gonna wait on watching this till later but the three or four thumbnail changes ive seen it went thru grabbed my attention. im a simple man
This is a follow up to my previous comment. And while yes I am a bit of a snob when it comes to music, I do recognize that I am sometimes wrong in my first impression of an artist. I have become a fan of The darkness after seeing a quite a few live performances and seeing Justin Hawkins Rides again on CZcams. You all can play quite well. You put on a great show and have a laugh at the whole pampas Rock God shtick. Which is one of the reasons that I like The Tubes as well. Plus it is the way Rock songs should be done. Keep it up.
Great chat. More of these would be cool!
When you ask people about their musical tastes, I do think it says *something* about them, but I'm not sure exactly what is conveyed (especially now after hearing this conversation). Since most people aren't musicians- just listening to the radio is enough (or playlists from streaming services tailored towards that person's taste). I also think, as a musician, you're keenly aware of *authenticity*. For example, if someone is writing your music for you, then you're a few layers removed from the emotional aspect that produced those notes and rhythms. Thus, you really become a performer at that level. I think Justin is looking at music from a creator's point of view and is trying to hear the authentic voice of the creator. Bands like The Beatles, Rush, Queen, King Crimson, etc. all strove to make an impact on music itself. When you look at someone like Taylor Swift, there is nothing even close to that connection to the music she's coming out with. She becomes just another entertainer, not all that much as a true musician. Since I play guitar and try very hard to improve my skill set, all the music I make reflects that ethos. Even though my music sucks and will never be heard by anyone, I don't think that anyone could doubt its authenticity if they heard it. So it is those layers between the music and the performer that I see Justin dismissing. Yes, rap/hip-hop is awesome music, it uses samples, but there I'm looking at the rapper's talent to put in interior rhyming and their skill in delivery. This was very entertaining and thought-provoking and I thank you guys!
When I was about 7 years, one of my favorite songs on the radio was Captain & Tenilles cover of Muskrat Love.
I absolutely loved this episode. I'm a bit of a music snob but then I was into music from a very early age. Nicking my mum's whitesnake records along with soul and funk records. My dad was into the Eagle's, Neil Young, lynyrd skynyrd so I believe I ended up educating myself properly. Also my old next door neighbour used to copy me blues records like muddy waters, howling wolf and stuff like that.
I love 60s psychedelic Rock & most rock music as the umbrella of rock music is so big. I am what you would call a musical explorer but most of the stuff you get on the radio these days is manufactured rubbish. I'm in total agreement with the views on this.
It just comes down to poor education most of the time. Of course opinions vary from person to person.
That's just my view on it and again thanks for the video guys 🤘🏻 Rock & roll. Much love.
Hows about a "Duck" themed band covering Darkness songs, called The Duckness.
Good convo all round. Love you guys ❤ especially finger on the pulse with pop Justin 😂😂 this ole house.
Chi-Lites 1970 Are You My Women. Other major hits were Have You Seen Her and Oh Girl
Now I like what Beyoncé did with it you can’t deny Crazy in Love is great song but the original is the original full stop.
I kinda like it when popular artists do this then you can go back and check out the originals.. Dua Lipa’s for instance Love Again samples White Town from the 80s I Could Never Be Your Women which is class. Some do it better than others right ? I like to research music samples and originals, it’s cool and can lead you down an interesting musical rabbit hole. Some people aren’t bothered that’s up to them. Ren’s Love Music Part 4 samples It Takes Two To Make a Thing Go Right by Rob Base and DJ EZ Rock 1988 so loving that too ‘cos I will go back and have fun reminiscing what I was up to in my youth when these tracks were out. and probably bust some moves 😂 I think everyone holds a fond regard for the music they we’re listening to from early teens to mid 20s. Disclosure are also really interesting due to their collaborations, it makes me go and listen to their collabs original stuff which is usually pretty cool. For the record that Do Jo cat tune is a big no no for me not denying she can rap but murdering that Burt tune ain’t for me 😂 she looks ridiculous too. Frequency is a big issue too 440hz rather than 432hz which is what the Beatles White Album instruments were tuned to. Mania was bought in by the Nazis promotion of 440hz rather than 432hz which is what the classical music was.
I don't know when this happens, but there's a stage as a musician/player when you just cannot hear music as a background thing anymore; it just immediately demands your attention and you must try to figure out what exactly is going on. How people just have background music is something I cannot understand, is it like watching scenery go by on a train? It doesn't matter what the music is, it demands my attention and my brain cannot stop trying to dissect it. This might a bit of a weird comment but I'm sure it might resonate with a few viewers.
Yeah, I have to tune out a lot of noise, but if its a song I like , I listen to all the parts, the bass lines, , whats the tempo, figure out the chords in my head, listen for the effects etc. Some songs bring me back to great memories and they are hard to listen to now that I'm older and have lost loved ones accocatiated with them.
A bigger aspect that killed rock and metal are guitar nerds. Everything snapped to a grid, drum replacement, vst amps, vst bass, cabs IR's along with super tight upper mid focused (grating) obsession with tone and riffs over the song is why the public switched off. The spit and sawdust/working class grit of rock and metal is long gone.
"Is music meant to soothe or challenge?"
43:15 This should be explored further. Similar to a book club. Jussy’s Record Of The Week.
I love a lot of different music. From GVF to Take That. it's all got a common thread... Great music.
Wow! The new set-up puts these JMF chats to a new level, which by my calculations is now level 6!!!
6 is a solid level.
At the end of the day, music is supposed to be enjoyable and fun. Sadly, to much gatekeeping happens instead. There is so much talent out there that never gets radio play or enough publicity. Media and record companies prefers to tell us what to hear. A song, musician or band either resonates or it doesn’t regardless of talent. The true heroes are sound engineers. They help shape songs for albums.
I worked in various record stores in the 80s & 90s (and had a college radio show). Some of my favorite albums/songs are things we got as promotional material & were being thrown away because nobody wanted them. It bothers me that so much of it has never been digitalized, so now there’s little to no chance anyone else will hear all the great stuff that existed. 💜🎶
My children were raised listening to classical, Beatles, punk, new wave, bluegrass, etc.
One of my kids is all about show tunes, one, all about pop music. Pretty well anything that sounds perfect and is played on the am radio and the other, although an enormous Swifty, also loves everything from hip hop to pop to independent sounds.
So, I have to say it depends on the person!!
That slurp out of frame at 15:29 with a straight face afterwards got me giggeling for some reason... :)
Nice one Jason just discovered this channel. Fair play mate just because you were in a novelty band doesn’t diminish your talent. You have a fantastic voice! 🙏🏽
Who’s Jason?
Jason Hawkins rides again
@@JustinHawkinsRidesAgain you ya donut…Oh sorry I see what I’ve done, I’ll edit it now! 👌
When you can get a cup of tea with no visible handle from behind you on a sofa
drink a bit without spilling it down your smart white top.
You are in full control of the arms and legs.
Don’t edit it! Now my comment makes no sense!
Johnny Nash... yes, thanks! You just helped me solving a crossword puzzle! 🙂 Yup! Nash was the answer. I've been so stuck on that! 😀 Never say JHRA isn't both useful and educational 🙂
11:15 'The Man with The Child in His Eyes' written by Kate Bush when she was 13 years old. :0)
my philosophy is just try and keep an open mind and if you get a chance to dance then you must take it
Justin, sometimes when you're on a road trip in the middle of nowhere and you come up to a wee little town in the middle of the middle of nowhere, all there is to eat is McWhacko's or Bugger King. It's just what it is. There is a lot of nowhere here, we are full of it.
What I've learned from this is that giving us sh*t music to consume is like going to McDonald's drive through, and forcing it down a ducks neck. And I'm inspired to take action in the form of a The Darkness tribute band named The Duckness.
I'm so sad! I'm such a darkness fan and you guys are playing Belfast in December. I wanted to buy tickets but I just turned 30 on the 28/09 and I was told not to buy them as I'd likely get them for my birthday but no one bought me tickets and now it's sold out 😭 anyway I'm really loving the podcasts and the music review videos keep up the good work x
The only tickets are for Edinburgh but they're nearly gone!
I know I seen that! I just couldn't afford to travel and do an overnight stay 😭 oh well I'll catch you guys next time hopefully! I've been to every other Belfast gig so far I shouldn't have relied on other people I'll learn my lesson 😂
JMF: huge “thank you” for mentioning Genevieve Artadi! (at least, I’m pretty sure it’s her you mentioned) Anyways, I did a quick search and then couldn’t stop listening to her the rest of the night. She’s fantastic!!
I know this very well. I have a friend who is def more of a musician than me....trained in singing and def looks down on artists like Taylor Swift just b/c of the popularity and deems it not complicated enough or something. I love the music I love for different reasons, it doesn't need to be complicated or high brow or more alternative or something. Doesn't matter. If it sparks a feeling in me, I'm in.
It seem's to me that recent pop "Artists" are relying much more on sampling the back catalogue of previous hits these days than ever. I know since Hip Hop and dance sampling is a thing, but it's become so prevalent that it seems an unhealthy amount of artists aren't even capable of writing their own hooks anymore. Those that are capeable like Ed Sheeran for example end up churning out formulaic hits to the point that even in his albums are following a formula of this is the fall in love song this is the nostalgic song, this ones the break up song etc etc. The reason I think Justin can't think of a pop track he likes post 2010's is because there just isn't any. Pop Music has become as consumable and disposable as plastic waste.
When I was a child thanks to my older brother I was exposed to amazing music including The Beatles, The Stones, Led Zeppelin, Neil Young, Deep Purple, Black Sabbath, Queen among others. I was only 10 years old when I listened to Zeppelins first album which blew me into the stratosphere!! As the hormones began dominating my life I turned to David Cassidy and the other teeny bop artists prevalent at the time. Once I transversed those pubescent years I realised where my heart lay and returned to my first musical influences which speaks to my soul and nourishes my spirit. All these years later I listen to the music that shaped my formative years. The rest was a temporary interlude of madness fuelled by my hormonal urges. ❤️😊💛
Music for me is about a feeling, a moment in time. I've never cared what others thought of my taste to be honest, when my peers during my teenage years were listening to dance music and going to raves, I was listening to soul music, blues and rock. I have an eclectic taste in music but I have never subscribed to listening to what others are listening too. I loved it that when I was listening to Blue Oyster Cult (other bands are available) that friends laughed at me. I was happy with that, I didn't care, I was having the last laugh as far as I was concerned. I listen to music though based on feeling and wouldn't rule out any genre if I like it and it invokes something inside me!
I'm still of the opinion that the finest sample artists in the world are The Avalanches - songs like Since I Left You are so unfathomably beautifully crafted from so many little elements of some wonderful snippets.
The best intro I've ever seen on any intro.
So much music these days are recycled and then you have to educate those that think it’s new or originally their song, rift whatever drives me mad. On a nicer note, you are looking delicious in this podcast Justin 🤘
Older female elitist here and proud of it. Look for good music...it's worth it.
Nice pod guys. Jenny is a great co-host 😊 approved 👍
Great conversations. Jenny May has way cool style, and always asks some interesting thought-provoking questions. Enjoying the episodes, keep posting.
I always love playing devil's avocado, it always leads to much more interesting discussions in my experience
Sometimes I love a song because it's deep, meaningful, creative, surprising, interesting, complicated...and sometimes I love it just cuz it's fun and makes me feel good. Sometimes it just gets stuck in my head, and I find myself wanting to listen to it without even knowing why. I love both the Roberta Flack "Walk on By" and Doja Cat's "Paint the Town Red". Sometimes I listen to and care about lyrics, other times I don't. I love music more than anything, and I love all types, and I feel bad for people who close themselves off to experiencing that joy. I used to be judgmental about people who listen to mainstream pop and think they had bad taste, or feel like they were dumb for not knowing when a cover was a cover or know the origin of a sample, until I realized how wildly immature that actually is because everyone can't know everything. I no longer have time to research where every song I love came from and why, and I just allow myself to enjoy it now. So much more freeing.
100%
Different music for different brains. Generic radio silt, as he was trying to describe it, plays well with the average person who doesn't really go out of their way to discover new sounds or doesn't wish to be challenged beyond the familiar. This bothers me to no end because my brain craves novelty. If I really like an artist I listen to the catalogue, not just a handful of tunes I know from stores. This is where people can feel a sense of 'gatekeeping' or musical snobbery, like when you hear something like, "Oh, nice Ramones shirt - name three songs off three albums" or what have you, especially since I am basically a music librarian with my ability to remember titles and release years. My gf likes repetitive, beat-driven music, much of which is EDM, as well as some metal, as she says it helps her focus because the repetition is comfortable while adding some drive and not being distraction. I, on the other hand, prefer a strong sense of melodic structure (early Bach exposure) and engaging, changing sounds, bonus points if there is emphasis on creative language choices and can feel familiar without being too banal or predictable (which is why I have been a diehard They Might Be Giants fan for almost 30 years and LOVE the works of Watsky and Ren). I often say I have neither good nor bad taste, just a Lot of taste, but I prefer to own or at least stream My choices as I can't handle the lowest-common-denominator stuff on the radio or the crass, overly sexualized new shock pop artists of today, and I go into fits if I am exposed to fake rapid fire hi-hat click songs for too long. I need music with Music in it, not two notes/chords and some idiot mumbling with a thirty-word vocabulary about how awesome they are or how dewy their genitals might be. For many, music is simply a footnote decoration of their time and space but for me it's my Lifeblood (Manics reference), so I can come across as pretty dismissive.
Don't forget to make a video on The Gulps!
Bob Harris described the New York Dolls appearance on the Old Grey Whistle Test as "mock rock". It was this kind of attitude that led to punk rock a few years after.
I just don't buy music that I'm forced to listen to when I'm out. It keeps me searching for music that I want to choose to listen to. It's not elitism, it's just good budgeting. I didn't buy a darkness album until 2014.
Hi Justin, love your vids! NOTE: You have an extra "is" in the title of this video. Trying to help, no snark or snobbery intended.
To be soothed or energized..
There is a time and place for every kind.
If your trying to be calm and fall asleep of course a slow tempo that's soothing would be warranted.
Opening question - what interests you? Then you break it down. They may be interested in something fascinating to such a degree that they will only ever like complex original music once you’ve exposed them to it. 35:27 Life is s multi sensory experience as you just said.
I am addicted to your stuff bro. Devils avocado 😂🤣👍
Bad Art exists, often as a skill-lessly executed commodification of good art. But in a way all of it is about freedom - artists create to feel free whilst the cynical create goods for mass consumption to enrich themselves in order to be free from financial concerns. We all want to be free. Ironically a lot of us want to be free from hearing modern pop music everywhere we go!
Remember the film high fidelity? I think that explains it pretty well.
I used to think that my parents had run quite mad when they said "music all sounds the same these days" But fast forward to now and I realise they were correct! I cannot abide the trends of pop music of the last 15 years. My friends do, but not for me. Snobbery maybe bht we all do it 😊 I love Dire Straits but Jenny thinks thats boring? 😂 Its not judgement, it's opinion, tastes and preferences. Occasion nuggets of gold appear and you think "Oh that's catchy" and why? It's due to the retro feel of it! Sounds old and brilliant. Thank f... for individuals and bands that still produce great music with heart ❤️
I think most people are a bit snobby about stuff they feel they have expertise in, but music taste is a particular topic where people feel it's socially acceptable to voice their snobby opinions. I'm a silversmith and I often see people wearing horribly made, mass-produced jewellery that I think is shit, but I would never point it out and expect people to still like me!
Designing and carving contemporary and traditional Maori jade/greenstone jewellery is one of my skills. I take great pride in my work, but never rate it because it's an artistic trait passed down from my ancestors. (Alike our musicianship.) I've only had praise from my customers, which I appreciate, but there's no jewellery art superior to that carved by my ancestral predecessors. The quality of their work, made with traditional hand tools and natural abrasives, cannot be challenged. In that regard, I'm not snobby. It's when uneducated and unsuspecting people are ripped off by substandard carvers, which attracts my attention. Back in the day, greenstone jewellery was made from damaged greenstone tools. Nowadays, we go on harvest expeditions permitted by central and local government, and the tribe whom own the traditional land rights. The satisfaction of producing a tangible item that people can connect with, is worth more than any dollar amount.
@@667neighbourofthebeast People getting ripped off is definitely the thing that winds me up the most, in your context I wouldn't count that as snobby though, you're protecting a craft and a culture. Any kind of stone carving blows my mind, never mind done without electric tools!
I say devil's avocado too!! Thought it was only me 😂
Justin Fucking Hawkins Rides Againnnnn!!! 🎶🎶🎶🕺🏽🎸
I think the rivalry between fans of certain bands is definitely something - elitism? like Pearl Jam vs Nirvana, Blur vs Oasis.. 25 years ago Pearl Jams lyrics spoke to me as an angsty teen, I loved them so much! Never really listen to them anymore, I don't think its snobbery I think I've just grown up and out of that phase. Watched alot of Beavis and Butthead back then and thats where I got all my snobby 'this band is better than that' ideas...
This is great you two are so watchable - I don't know why, I think you keep it just edgy enough.
Thanks for tuning in!
I know this is usually for the mainstream music but also what about the snobbery of people who always claim they knew the band before they were known? also check out the book "your brain on music" by Daniel Levitin. It's a book that covers obviously what music does to your brain but the many different areas and why it has that effect, such as why do we listen to sad songs when sad, and the stuff about the different frequencies.
My dear beloved Justin, I am a new fan of your music, and many rock acts and ALSO a fan of Beyoncé, though not so much of Olivia or TS. I listen to whatever strikes my mood. I am thrilled to go to YOUR show this month and two months ago QOTSA and in July Beyonce and my beloved Foos in May.
I believe Jennie May is correct, and that article snippet even more so. Musical taste is more about culture. My kids don’t like rock music and I could care less.
I think my daughter’s music is for taking a nap 💤.
I really like your point about how the music was crafted. That is THE point, isn’t it. How it’s made=it’s value.
Your imitation of “Savage” had me cracking up 🤣
As always, thoughtful discussion.
Ha ha I'm going to use devil's 🥑, love listening to you and Jenny may, I agree with everything Justin says, I love his take on music, knowledgeable, then again I love everything Jenny may says, haha I just love you both, so funny when you sit down for a conversation, would love to be a fly on the wall when you two are just having an everyday chat.🤔👍🙏
Hey Justin. I read this quote from Thom Yorke which was; "Muse is where I draw the line. They both rip us of and slack us off.. that is just bad karma" I have never seen it anywhere where Muse are slacking of Muse. I was probably o young when it was, so I missed it if it was in a magazine. You Justin seems to know what they said about Radiohead. Could you eleborate in more details.
By the way the Valerie dance thing is stupid. Especially for that reason that thy take a bit of a song from someone else, do nothing to it really except looping it and then they pass it as their own. Daft Punk has done the same sometimes. Just took some old funk song, looped it and put bongo over it, increased the tempo a bit and and then presented it as their new single. So I agree some of these dance producers they really should d_ _ .. or maybe just Duck off.
I think bigotry & condescension, rather than snobbery & elitism, are the words you searched for. Words that apply to soo many things, literature, food, politics, art, the perception of beauty. “There’s my way, or the wrong way”! I think it’s all about what you like, what brings you pleasure, if other people don’t like or appreciate your choice in those areas, who cares? They don’t have to listen to/watch/enjoy them. Keep them all to yourself and love what you love, maybe you’ll get the pleasure of sharing your delight in whatever it is, but maybe you won’t. Isn’t that life in general?
It has been a very amusing discussion.
I admit that i still haven't listened Olivia Rodrigo in spite you have talked about her here a lot of times, and Dojta Cat... i used to like one song which name i don't remember now.
About your roles here, I agree with Jenny about the fact that some people believe that they are better or smater than you because of their taste. But i think that elitism is a little different to the ideas that you, Justin, has defended here. Because to me elitism implies imposture. The kind of people who want to look like someone who he or she isn't for real, and try to use the culture like something which separate them of the rest of people.
I have met a lot of people like this.
Your point of view about the necessity to teach to the people about music is completly true.
And if i listen a pop song which basis is a classic which i don't know and you tell it me, i can't consider this like elitism.
I listen all kind of music and i agree that actual pop music is less good than the past pop music.
Well, to finish and answering to your opening question...
I agree with both aka i love mum and dad 😂
🎶 Snawberry Fields Forever 🎶
🍓
As far as snobbery goes, I would say that anyone who has ample experience/exposure/understanding of a broad range of music and then prefers one genre over the other has justified a bit of snobbery - not to the extent that they can judge someone else's taste but because they can hopefully articulate and justify their own taste to others.
Someone who lacks exposure to a broad range of music and yet adamantly defends "my favourite genre is better than the others" is simply revealing their limited experience. The fact is that music preference is cultural/learned and people are often unaware of how much they don't know.
The best analogy I can think of regarding pop music is that it is particularly saccharine. I equate it to enjoying sugary cereal - there's absolutely nothing wrong with loving sugary cereal! But it does raise a bit of a red flag regarding the sophistication of one's palate. As far "first date conversations" go, I would prepare for a future devoid of culinary adventure.
😂 love ya Justin ya snob. Nah you are authentic dude❤
I guarantee that Justin is slurping and gulping that coffee just to get a ride out of someone in the comments 😂 Love it. I must say, you are both looking snazzy today.
Imagine you just broke up w/ someone…& maybe you bawled to the first pop breakup song you haplessly heard on the top playlist after tha …and it accidentally becomes your catalyst for processing your baggage. I have some “cheesy” songs that I know aren’t stimulating any new brain cells, but they get me pumped for an interview or get my A$$ to the gym :)
I guess what I wanted to add was the life -event association even if it’s to processed cheese for discussion….
Oh, and I’m going to the Masonic in San Francisco tomorrow and I’m so psyched❤❤❤❤❤ I am bringing my band’s drummer who I bet will be swept into the Darkness Army 🎉
I have the biggest crush on this siren...geez I adore a woman with substance! Really really want more of this person on your channel, not only for her honesty and mindset but also coz I feel your conversations are truly enlightening... plus she is gorgeous! I know she is taken but geez I hope her bloke appreciates her as much as others do, no doubt he gets how lucky he is... but away from all that/my crush on her I really enjoy your conversations with her, fabulous perspective! Will be seeing you when you hit Perth, Western Australia in the next few months.. what's the chance's she might tag along for the tour? Coz I will buy a meet n greet just to see her across the room bro, would never expect a conversation but to look upon such beauty with my own eyes in actual real life might just be a highlight of my life...sad, yes... but I would totally buy a backstage ticket purely just to lay eyes upon such a fascinating, attractive creature! Please bring her to Australia, lord knows we need more females like her setting the standard over here and showing our upcoming generation just what professionalism can achieve... can't wait for you to hit our beautiful shores Mr Hawkins, am there with bells on! :)
The intro; walking up the stairs, peak Justin.
I loved the conversation overall, but just to highlight, the Eric Prydz remix of Valerie "Call on Me" had Steve Winwoods blessing.
He liked it so much that he rerecorded his vocal to actually say "Call on Me" for Prydz.
So that's not really a great example to bolster Justins point.
That said, loved the entire conversation. Jenny is fantastic and really gets the best out of Justin IMO.
Think he probably liked being paid to sing it and then get the royalties when it was a No. 1. It's a festering turd of a song.
@@jamesauton4060 Sure look, to each their own. By all accounts, he says he liked the song and we can only take him at his word.
Things have changed a lot I’m a art snob for sure like if it’s not oil it’s crap most of the time .😂 there’s a authentic sound that comes from a human being rather then a computer .
Very interesting conversation.
I sometimes let my snobbery get the better of me, by exclaiming "this band is shit" or "this artist is shit" and sometimes it's hard for me to reign that in, but it's something I've tried to be better at hiding, because ultimately we can't all have the exact same music taste - that would be silly.
To be honest though, I would find it very hard to not call XXXTentacion, Cardi B, 6ix9ine as "shitty" music, because it is, well, shitty.
And I think Beyonce, Taylor Swift, Harry Styles and those types of artists are incredibly overrated. See? I can't help myself!