Like no other Mercedes Before or Since: Mercedes 190E 2.5-16 Evo II - BTS with DTS - Ep 19
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- čas přidán 23. 12. 2023
- Nearly everything about the Mercedes 190E (W201) makes it an outlier for Mercedes-Benz. It was their first small sedan, and appropriately hot-rodded by the factory (and Cosworth) in 2.3-16 and 2.5-16 forms, it was the most sporting Mercedes since the 300SL of the 1950s. It was full of sophisticated technology and sporting intent, so much so that its DTM racing success inspired BMW to create the first ever M3, the E30. No Mercedes-Benz since has been a better sports car because the company permanently changed directions for AMG’s less purely sports-oriented direction after this car.
In this video, Derek Tam-Scott explores the fascinating development, history, and racing exploits of this model through the lens of the fourth and final variant of the 16 valve 190E, the 2.5-16 Evo II. He also drives it on some of his favorite roads and asks the common question: does it drive as good as it looks?
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BTS with DTS on a vintage Mercedes?! What could possibly make for a better Christmas gift eh?! Thanks Derek, for continuing to share your knowledge and passion with us for yet another year! Looking forward to 2024!
+1 Copy that. .. Re; 1994 E-320 C124 Coupe.
I got bad news for you he's not continuing on ISSIMI
A W201 , or any other modern Mercedes is NOT a vintage car : the term Vintage applies to any motor car built between 1st January 1919 up to 30th December 1930 .
The likes of W201 and W124 cars can be referred to as Classic Cars , or Youngtimers as is becoming accepted on the continent .
@@derekheeps1244 Jesus Christ and I thought I was a carmudgeon 😂
I hope Derek continues to make these films as part of his new venture.
What?!? He’s going away??😢
@@hottub2249 (15:15) of the Two Cars & General Update Curmudgeon episode from 3 weeks ago for told story
But yes, no longer used car salesman but dealer
@hottub2249 seriously?? WTF?
@@hottub2249he will be getting a dealers license and starting for himself in the new year AFAIK.. they mentioned it on the podcast..
@@yonypanofsky2763 clearly I’m lost!
couldn’t have asked for a more Derek video as a sendoff from ISSIMI. happy holidays, DTS, and good luck with your business endeavors 🎉
Absolutely. Makes me sad there won't be any more. I perk up every time I see a new one released.
What happened?
He started or is starting his own dealership
Great review on one of my dream cars. I had a 2.3-16 as a daily driver for 16 years and loved every minute of it. You absolutely nailed it in your video when you say it's a bit clunky and unremarkable at normal speeds but comes alive as you start to cane it. My car (named "Marlena" - she was German, had a square head, & sang a sweet song!) had the same trait although she was "only" a 2.3. The harder we went the more I had the feeling I was dancing with her and the better her song became. I always got annoyed with road tests because I don't think the journalists ever drove hard enough to appreciate this side of the car. Sadly I had to sell Marlena in 2016 for financial reasons and I must admit I shed a tear when she left. Still miss her - best car ever.
This was my feeling with my '86 2.3-16 - that chassis was remarkably delicate, precise, and poised... but only once you drove it on the door handles. Anything less than 8/10ths and it was a bit wooden. Genuinely, the one car I wish I'd kept.
how gay
I am always struck by the beauty of the filming location you have found for these pieces.
california is like no other place on earth
Looks a whole lot like the santa cruz mountains
@@bmwe30armo go to Italy
@@borntodieworldisafuckSanta Cruz is highly likely, based on ISSIMI’s location, but I also wonder if in some videos they are shot in perhaps Sonoma or Mendo.
Edit: Just noticed Alice’s showing up in one cut - Santa Cruz it is…
Owning car #146 of the 500 was an honor. I’ve yet to slide a car that has that level of balance.
Jealous! I drive a C220 CDI Sportcoupe, but these race Mercedeses are my absolute dreams of cars. Gawd dayum Mercedes made some real beauts back then.
Nobody needed to know these numbers, even though they are very impressive... A gentleman never tells.
Are you Ashton Ellis or Shaun Platinum? Tall claims to make in a CZcams comment section full of probably the most aggressive Mercedes-Benz fans online.
@@Motosmostwanted ok
@@Motosmostwanted You are trying so hard to make me believe you. You obviously didn't own that car, ever. If you did, you wouldn't need to convince me that you bought a quarter million dollar 35 year old Mercedes. Unless that is the pinnacle of your life, which in that case, that's pathetic. Or you're lying, which is equally pathetic.
The most Hyphen Christmas gift possible. Talking about an old Mercedes.
Happy Holidays!
One of the best looking cars ever made imo. Iconic
Lived in Germany from 88 to 92. There was a Volkswagen dealer across the street from the building my family lived in. I remember seeing one of these Evo 2s parked there while walking our dog. Spent a good long while admiring that car.
Great piece and a good reminder that Mercedes was once a great company.
The 3 spikes wooden stearing wheel is the go-to for a 190. My aunt had a 190e with the 2.3l 16v with a 3 spikes wooden stearing wheel. It was white and for some reason it had the BMW stripes (light ble, blue, red) on it on the corner of the hood and trunk. Beautiful 16" BBS aluminium rims with 225 55 tires on it. It was such a beauty
This is by far the BEST content from your channel so far! Not focusing on chit-chat or giving us only the drive-by views / talking heads. This stuff is gold - it gives you the epiphany of loving the car that started it all, along with the E30 M3 (I am a BMW guy), AND the history around it. During this now modern weird time of car journalists focusing on touchscreens inside the car instead of *Driving Feel* is very different. And just trust me on this - there are people who actually care on Driving. Not just moving from place A to place B.
Love the drive through the redwoods and the truly beautiful 190E Evo. I’ve taken my E500 on that exact same road. It’s magical.
I never knew there could be someone who could capture the beauty of this piece of art. That's the only car that has remained a dream since childhood. The body shape, the front grill to headlight proportion. The interior. Everything even the base 1.8 model for example is beautiful. And the heritage it carries... such an outstanding car.
Saved the best for last. Couldn’t have asked for a better final BTS, the automotive hobby is going to miss DTS’s poetic lines while absolutely caning a classic around a forest backroad!
I believe that you and Jason, and production teams behind you, are making some of the best content available! Bravo Sirs! Thanks for all the time, research, archival footage and beauty shots that you assemble to make such great films.
This is an EXCEPTIONAL video. Everything from the research and archival footage, to the writing and presentation, to the camera work and editing, are top-notch. And you could not have picked a better or more evocative location. Some of the best drives I've ever had were through those redwood forests. Such a shame about Big Basin...
This car is the benchmark for both compact 4-door styling and performance. The body kit and wheel diameter on the Evo II are pretty close to perfect. No cartoonish air dams and polished, deep-dish wheels but just enough to mount competent rubber and fit decent brakes. Magnificent.
Gran Turismo first made me aware of this car, and then made me love this car. There are lots of cool AMG's, but this is the only Mercedes I want to own. Forever.
The "Yakuza Special", it's an amazing car in every way.
Been waiting for this video for years. DTS is easily one of my favorite automotive reviewers.
This will always be a special car to me. Watching Klaus Ludwig race it live in DTM when I was a kid is something I will never forget.
Speechless. I love this era, this car, and these videos. Thank you so much!
Your videos are criminally under viewed. Freaking impressive.
Absolutely loved it! Derek has a talent of telling the story, lots of history and details mixed in with how the car feels to drive and to the eye plus the crazy nice scenery, he makes it just right. Awesome work DTS, love the episodes, ride safe!
This has been a wonderful series Derek! Good luck and best wishes with your new venture. I think we’d all love to see more BTS With DTS under any name moving forward. Happy New Year sir!
Still plenty of 190E's on the road here in Germany. They just don't build them like they used to.
300E was one of the best vehicles I ever had the pleasure of driving.
One of my customers took me out in a brand new 2.3-16 before I knew what it was. First time I had experienced anti-lock brakes, on a roundabout. I remember how well it was built, the Recaros, how well it moved, smooth and the revs and noise. Stunning car. (I bought a 968CS however)
An old friend had one of these stashed away for years before they made it roadworthy again. I respect the hell out of that dream.
Lovely video. Thanks. I have always loved the W201. I almost got the crazy 6 cylinder E300 that sounded like a mini muscle car. These things were well made.
This is a beautiful video about one of my favorite cars out there!
Great visuals from the past and stunning ones as you drive through your iconic forest. Thanks for this video!
Those old racing footage are so cool!
Thanks for the video. This is so well done.
Love all the historic development videos and photos. Very interesting, Nice work!! 👍
What an amazing video! Lovely deep dive on the Evo 2 truly conveying how this car makes you feel.
Awesome, awesome film, Derek! Content like this reinvigorates me and makes me remember WHY I've loved cars since I was a kid. Thank you so much for this wonderful Christmas gift.
All of my ex's are gone...but my Benz is still in the garage. 😅
Derek, don't tell Jason but I prefer BTS to the much flashier, sensational Icons episodes.
Sometimes simplicity and subtly result in a more pleasurable experience.
LOL. We gotta have them both!
Mmmhmm.
@@JasonCammisa A truly Carmudgeonlly reply!
Never knew, but am dam happy to learn, about the wing/window cheat.
👍👍
Thank you so much for this, Derek ❤
Derek another great episode of BTS, hope to see more from you in the future on YT, have a great holiday and awesome 2024. I wish you all the success on your new adventures and can't wait to hear more from you and Jason on The Carmudgeon Show
What a wonderful film! Thank you, sir! ❤
So beautifully presented! Being a 190 16v Enthusiast for almost 25 years, and owning a small colletion of these cars here in Europe I was thinking "seen them all". But I saw few pictures (Race of champions) first time in my life. Yes Evo's are such a tempting cars, build back in a day, when engineers ruled the Mercedes-Benz factory and not the accounting managers like later on! Taking it for a spin is not like meeting an old friend, for me every new drive (mostly on sunny sundays) is more like going on your first date, feelings overwhelmed with performance unrivaled by the cars of the era. I am not 100% sure, but I think that some of the world speed records from the Nardo test track stay to this day. Thanks fot this video and cheers!
I’ve always loved this car because I’ve always had a soft spot for Mercedes, but this video has deepened my love and appreciation for it. Thank you.
Amazing history lesson and incredibly fun rollers. Well done.
Mille grazie, Hyphen. Video fantastico. Macchina fantastica. E anche è la tua! 👍🏼❤️ Buon Natale e grazie per il regalo. 🎁
Gorgeous looking car, one of my favourites of all time. The 190 is what comes to mind when I think of Mercedes-Benz. The Germans were making brilliant cars back then.
Great video, thank you for sharing 🙌
DTS does DTM! Awesome work as always. I've heard Jason talk about his 2.3-16 relentlessly but never realized there were so many differences with the 2.5 16 and also the evo 1 & 2. I really hope you go into more detail on the next carmudgeon. Who am I kidding, when it comes to Saco Mercedes when do you not spend an entire episode talking about it lol
Magic, simply magic. Thank you for this brilliant video.
W201 is finally catching on as a timeless classic. I bought my 2.5 diesel for a bargain an have 55,000 miles put on it so far.
Im so thankful I got to experience this series before it came to a close. Absolutely fantastic job with literally all of them. Sad to see DTS go but excited for his future endeavors
well done sir,,,,well done. A proper video about a true Mercedes legend.
Such a Brilliant car, top 5 for me, Thank You, Love the channel! Always excellent content!
Had the alternative in the e30 //m3 evolution. Never drove the Merc but friends had one. Merc was lovely but preferred the BMW to the Merc a true full on race car. Had mine for 22 years of sublime experience along side an e34 //m5 Nurburgring Edition. That era of motorsport cars were/are absolutely sublime.
Another home run! Keep 'em coming, DTS!
Such a wonderful wonderful wonderful video! Thank you so much!
Thank you guys for this video! 👏👏👏 Bravo!
Probably the best video ever made for this car!
I actually learned to drive in a 190E (just the regular diesel version). The only thing I didn't like was the handbrake pedal next to the clutch. Made hill starts more complicated. In a car with a normal handbrake, you lift the clutch until you feel the bite and slowly lower the handbrake and give a little gas and off you go. Not in a 190E. First to put on the handbrake, you have to keep the brakes on, put the car in neutral, so you can lift you feet of the clutch in order to press the handbrake pedal. The handbrake release is binary, it's on or off and there is no in between. Meaning that in order to start a hill start, you start with pressing the brake and clutch pedals, slowly release the clutch until you feel the bite, at that point you have both feet on both pedals, pull the handbrake release, slowly release the brakes and also the clutch if you feel backwards movement, release the brakes completely in order to hit the accelerator pedal in order to drive away. Luckily diesels are more forgiving when it comes to clutch control. I had a good instructor and passed on first attempt (hooray!) in Feb '95, 4 months after turning 18. My first car was an Opel Kadett E and it was alive! It drank, it smoked and it humped...
Awesome video!!! I loved it. Good research and info on one of the cars that caught my teenage dreams.
Thanks, Derek for more awesome content before the end of the year and your new venture. Excellent video as always. It shows what happens when two great companies compete. The consumer wins.
Also, as a BMW fanboy, I thought it was a win that Mercedes (with their automatic) stopped making sportier cars. Now I know we all lost out in what could have been.
This is a high quality video beautifully done.
Superb video. Thanks!
Outstanding as always
Thanks Derek for showing us your feelings for the car. A buddy of mine had one and today is devastated he sold it years ago.
Gorgeous video for a gorgeous car. Well done all around.
This is beautiful work.
I have always admired these cars, in an interview with Aryton Senna he was so happy driving the Benz. Hard to find a Evo 2, and being a E class fan. I have found a S124(Wagon) going to install a AMG E63 motor and getting a 6 speed ZF transmission installed.
This video is amazing and shows how great Mercedes is and 1980’s-1990’s was pinnacle in my view of different models that were made as functional and rigid body but not hurt the passenger.
Thank you for sharing another masterpiece. You're right, the question is painful: what could Mercedes have done if they had focused that engineering pedigree on sports cars...
Now this a fantastic Xmas gift! What a sensational video!
THIS CHANNEL IS SO UNDERRATED
Great episode! Stunning footage! What I’d give to drive one
Awesome video and filming of an iconic car.
I think this may be my favorite BTS with DTS. What an incredible car.
Just a wonderful video. Excellent work
As a long time owner of a Mercedes Cosworth, I can honestly say when the car is properly gone through with proper performance parts, these cars are no joke, even by today’s standards. Straight line acceleration still has room for improvement, but on the race track in the tight turns, it keeps up with many modern performance vehicles.
Awesome video & lovely car. I always forget about this car, then I get reminded of how amazing it is, and then again try to forget about it because of how rare & expensive it is...
My dad had the first version. Completely different vehicle than the standard 190e, but tbh, the performance is nothing compared to today’s boring standard family sedans. More fun to drive? Yes, but the very best 0-60 times were 7.2 (compared to 6.7 for the M3) and 167hp vs 185 for the M3. The manual transmission really did help to set it apart from other Mercs during that era and even the AMG Hammer, which was a monster produced with the help of Porsche (porsche was struggling at the time) but more like a GT car than a true sports car or sports sedan. I still have mixed emotions regarding that car, much better than the 190e and 300e during that era, but I think my father ended up getting it because we (the kids) kept growing and could no longer fit comfortably in his 911.
Awesome. Wish you’d put out more videos, scenery is beautiful and narration is so relaxing. I know you do don’t many new cars, but would love an episode on the gr Corolla. One of the only intriguing (obtainable) new cars out there imo.
Thanks for the depths of your nerdiness. Inspiring for sure.
we own a c124 300e and I love this car so much! Seeing your video with the 190e is just beautiful to watch. Maybe when I am a bit older I will be able to buy a 190 too. These cars back in time are masterpieces trough and trough
A fantastic video beautify shot and presented. The W201 is a magnificent car.
Hell yes. This earned my subscription.
An absolute masterpiece, what a dream car 🙌🙌🙌 great video!
The ending corner shot , just brilliant
I remember hitting 250km/h going downhill and the bonnet shaking....many many moons ago...
Thanks for the video and the research you did.
Greetings from Germany 👍
I adore these cars my dad used to own 2 190 mercedes with diesel engines back in the day so this car for me remains one of the all time hero cars.
Awesome video,old footage and history of this wonderful car.Mercedes are true pioneer's in technology.I love how the Evo 2.5 always features in Gran Turismo.💯👌🏻✌🏻
This is almost the perfect road car for me. Make the rear wing a lip, would make it perfect. I like cars that go faster than they look; that most people would not think would be a fast car. That can be docile and civilised and pass unnoticed most of the time. Cars that don’t attract attention when they go slowly, attract less attention when they go fast.
I’ve had very fast cars, and I have had very comfortable cars, the best road cars can do both. This was one.
I grew up in Germany in the late 80s and had very wealthy friends. One had a 2.3-16 as his 18th birthday present. I never got to drive it, but as a passenger you could feel the way it gripped, and you could feel the engine pull seamlessly if gear changes were just right.
The roads around where I lived are ones you have filmed on - north side of Frankfurt, up into the Taunus mountains. One of my friends father’s was a petrolhead, and unfortunately I did not know what he picked me up in until I was older. He asked if I was ok if he drove fast - I was a 16 year old car fanatic and just grinned and nodded.
I remember being driven through those twisting roads to Konigstein, seeing the speedometer touch 200kmh, being very very glad for the 4 point harness as he stood on the brakes before turns. I thought it was a 911, but it was yellow, with different mirrors and said RUF on the hood as he dropped me off and pulled away. Never got to go in it again, but one of only two cars to make me sweat from the exertion of being a passenger on public roads.
Great cars, great roads, great memories. Thanks for reminding me of all of it.
Have to disagree a bit about the _cars that don't attract attention when they go slowly, attract less attention when they go fast_ part from personal experience.
I have a W212 E63 with the 6.2 engine for nearly 10 years now. And it attracts almost 0 attention when going slow or parking.
Apart from maybe once a year when a knowledgable car enthusiast notices what it is. (but even that has become less in recent years)
But when moving it in a spirited manner up twisty austrian alpine roads, it attracts more attention in my experience, as people don't expect "an old big probably Diesel Merc" to go around corners and pick up speed like it does.
And if you go above 4000 rpms while driving people will look up to what could make that sound and the looks are always rather surprised.
Hey, I live in this Area you mentioned. The Evo 2 have disappeared there but I know about 4 Evo 1 owners in this part of Germany.... Including me 😉
Kudos on this finale for ISSIMI. Will be looking out for more...
One of my all time favorites!
I saw one of these last year at my hotel up in broomfield Colorado he went from 2nd to 3rd i assume and it was one of the best sounding engines I’ve ever heard in my life I couldn’t believe i actually saw one irl Broomfield had a lot of nice cars i also saw a Ferarri 812c
Wauw I’m almost crying 😢. Great piece of history and I never realized that Merecedes is the main reason the BMW e30 m3 exists. I always seem to wish I lived in that time, DTM, group B, homologation cars, great events like the 190e race with Ayrton Senna. Just like in rallycross, racing all stock rx7s as the final race. Man I can keep on talking 😊❤
EDIT: and I just have to ask, will we get a video of my dream car, the BMW e30 m3? Thanks in advance 😊
Man, your research is up there. Nice work. Liked and subscribed.
What research? The quote that it's shorter than a modern Fiesta when it's indeed nearly 50 centimeters longer? 😆
Amazing video. Thank you.I had an 86 2.3-16 in silver. Drove it on the exact roads.
What road is this?
This is awesome. + bonus points for unexpected adjective use ; )
So sad this is the last BTS video with Derek, but so fitting that it’s a Sacco Mercedes. Was hoping to see a r129 video (other than the podcast)
Great video, Derek! Nice to see you pop up in Jason's Mustang video as well!
This is an utterly gorgeous car. Every motoring journalist privileged enough to drive the souped up 190E evo completely loves it. The vastly increased value of these cars nowadays is completely justified. They are worth it. Especially with that Cosworth motor.
Will forever be the greatest Mercedes ever made, absolutely stellar video this 🤌🏻🤌🏻
Hyphen and old Mercedes
Hope you continue making videos in your future endeavors it’s been nice seeing this series grow!