Dungeon Meshi - Spelunking On the Spectrum
Vložit
- čas přidán 29. 06. 2024
- Dungeon Meshi was my favorite show of the previous season, with its extreme attention to detail, and fun take on dungeon delving through a culinary and ecological lens. But did you know... that a great deal of main characters in the show... are autistic (positive)? Completely seperate from the sales pitch of the show, DM is ALSO a really nuanced and full depiction of multiple types of autism, and this is a video exploring the autistic representation found within the show. It simply blew me away when I was watching it, and hopefully you'll either agree or find something new to appreciate within the depths of the King's Dungeon.
!!!!!!!WARNING!!!!!!!
Oftentimes, neurodivergent research has an ideological bend to it, which causes an implicit bias in the research, writer, or recipient of the research. Some people see autism as a disease, others a disability, and yet others just a neurological condition, and each of these statements comes with loads of assumed meaning. I tried to vet the sources of information to make sure they weren't "bad" (in my opinion), but I am not perfect. If a source is anti-autistic peoples or has some problematic beliefs, kindly let me know, or email me, or assume that someone before you likely already did so, given how MANY people are on CZcams. Again, I am one man, doing my best, and I really did try, I promise.
Anyway:
----Writings Referenced in the Video----
Why Many Autistic Girls are Overlooked - written by Beth Arky, with experts Wendy Nash, MD and Susan F. Epstein, PhD - childmind.org/article/autisti...
Is There a Bias Toward Males in the Diagnosis of Autism? A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis - written by Sara Cruz, Sabela Conde-Pumpido Zubizarreta, Ana Daniela Costa, and 7 others - link.springer.com/article/10....
Understanding undiagnosed autism in adult females - uclahealth - www.uclahealth.org/news/artic...
----Chapters----
00:00 Intro
01:01 Dungeon Meshi
03:55 Laios is autistic
06:38 A stereotypical, but empathetic depiction of autism
09:04 Kabru is autistic, too
12:23 Masking
16:23 The fist fight
17:54 Culture and Neurodivergency
19:10 A Common Autistic L
21:07 Representation
22:54 Falin is autistic also
24:55 Gender and Neurodivergency
26:59 Conclusion
My lovely patrons:
Gavin Davis
Mushroom-Bagel-Bites
coffeeee
mercymain
Geneva
Da Chowda
Big Cheddar
Rowan Ellis
dingga
gerberli
Autogyro
Bonus Jonas
Michal
Lexa Rider
Eli
Lazar
DSCota
Ian Fisch
Dakota-Mangum-Turner
In addition to the Falin part: imo it's not as simple as "everyone likes Falin" - sure, we're following a bunch of people who care about her a LOT. But when Kabru was talking about Laios being "indifferent to people", he said the same thing about Falin too. It's likely many people outside her own party do find her strange just like Laios. And we're shown that she was a very lonely child who struggled socially and academically, both while living at home and later in school. It's only after she made her first friend, Marcille, that she opens up more. Laios says in the last episode something along the lines of "Falin was a lot tougher than me mentally." It's likely they were both ostracized since they were children, they just dealt with it differently
In general when people outside of their group are talking about Falin they say things like "Touden siblings are weird", "they are not good people" etc.
Falin and Laios were seen by the outsiders as a monolith, with each of them being seen as half of off-putting duo.
And she was definitely struggling too. And lonely. And misunderstood.
And even after she made a friend in the school - the moment she saw Laios, she had joined him. Without hesitation.
Because she knew that the only person who both her, and her brother, can be fully themselves with... is each other.
(And now I made myself sad 😅)
@@dee_river Falin unfortunately also seems to be a bit of a people pleasing doormat, possibly as result of trying to survive alone in the village and trying to make it in Magic School. She considered accepting Toshiro's proposal purely off chance it was her only chance to be married, she happily heals less effectively by numbing the healing pains with magic first, and her very forbiddingly telling Marcille that she doesn't care about the potential harm of her teleportation spell.
She seems to have been decently successful at the academy, having a prestigious job lined up for her after graduation, but abandoned it in heartbeat when seeing the state Laios was in after traveling with a merchant caravan. Unwashed, haggard, half-starved, almost entirely given up on anything but base survival. Bad enough that she didn't hestitate to dropout and run.
Chilchuck himself voices how Falin is unsettling in the extras. I think he understands that she means well, but as a highly sociable person, the fact that he cannot get a read on her at all makes him second guess it.
@@elsesome2707 while i 100% agree that seeing Laios in that state must have played a major role on Falin's decision on joining him, i truly believe a good part of it was that since they where children, Falin's dream was to travel the world along with Laios, and fullfiling this dream was pretty much served in a silver platter when Laios appeared at the academy, saying he was heading to the island
I would also like to note historically. Romance between nobles in Japan was extremely complicated and autistic traits in women could easily be misinterpreted and seen as “overly feminine” before the Meiji period it was expected that a woman would only communicate via third parties before meeting their expected partner personally (sometimes even speaking to eachother through a paper screen.
So Falin’s non romantic autistic behavior could be seen as almost flirtatious and extremely attractive in a medieval Japanese context.
Huh.
So THEY BOTH didn't realize that he was in love?
its interesting, but i dont really think thats the case with shuro
@@chlorophyll1415 I mean, the proposal was probably a pretty big hint for her.
@@fraidnaught9067 yea but didn't he said why he love her and just immediately propose to her..... So she may have no idea about his feelings until his proposal and have to take some time to think about it before answering the question bc she was flabbergasted 😂😂
One point I don't fully agree with is that Laios never exhibits a mask...
He does not - NOW.
The way his party members react when they see him go all out about monsters, how they are surprised with things he says and ways he says them... you'd have thought that this is their first trip together.
Which it definitely was not.
You said it yourself, they've probably known each other for years.
Laios WAS masking by not being so overexcited about monsters. By not saying first thing that came to his mind. By not showing clearly and openly how deep his obsession with monsters goes.
Yes, from the societal point of view?
Even if he was limiting himself in his expression, and biting his tongue and was not openly gushing about his hyperfixation, he still would be perceived as a "weirdo".
But sucking at masking the way that is socially acceptable does not mean that someone does NOT mask.
So in general - yes, I do agree with your analysis of Kabru, and you actually put perfectly into words something I was not 100% sure about myself, due to myself having much more of Laios than Kabru form of autism 😉.
Which probably explains a lot why I feel so passionate about hearing the lack of mask mentioned when it comes to Laios.
People like Laios still do mask, we're just not too good at it 😉 despite feeling like we're doing a lot and enough and desperately trying to shove ourselves into neat little boxes we have no way of fitting in so we would finally belong and be accepted somewhere.
P.S. Senshi is another character in series I consider to be autistic 😀. But he gives much more of "autistic dad who never realised he was autistic before talking with his autistic child about autism" vibe 😀
Oh my god, Senshi is sooo definitely Autistic!! Also, that comment took me out on how accurate that is!😂
Also, I agree with you on Laios! He is definitely masking in the beginning! Especially with the party not being aware that he loved monsters. He is definitely unmasking his Autistic traits now and it's glorious!
currently struggling. Job interviews are an absolute nightmare.
@@SteveAkaDarktimes Stay strong, brother. You'll find a place that understands you for your own sake. Just hold out hope, and don't be afraid to be honest with the interviewer about struggling with the format. Often times, they'll be fairly accommodating.
Oh yeah, you're right. He's masking, especially at the start of the series. He's very dry and uh idk what to compare his behaviour to... uhhh.. a disinterested colleague? A marvel character without the cringey dialogue? Idk.
This absolutely! I also think Laios' unmasking was spurred by meeting someone who shares his special interest, even if Senshi's interest in it isn't rooted in the same way as Laios' is. If you'll forgive the potential roughness of the simile, it's like when the train kid meets a conductor and he's free to just unload everything he's taught himself about trains because he's finally with someone who *also* likes trains and can understand all the cool stuff about them.
For me, the point where Laios went from "He just like me, fr, fr" to "Okay, I think this guy is ACTUALLY autistic" was when a friend so me a bonus panel of the manga that explained whose mind created each of doppelgangers and why they perceived that person that way. The way Laios's brain consistently missed obvious and sometimes iconic physical details, was not only very relatable, but all but said that Laios's mind just works differently than everyone else's.
Also, that bit where we hear Laios's parents say "How do you expect to survive in the real world?" hit so close to home that I could hear it knocking at the door.
Lastly, I'm so glad Delicious in Dungeon gets that an autistic hyperfocus is a compulsion and not a superpower. Laios's "fun facts" can be useful, but can just as well be barely relevant (and we know this is intentional since Senshi does not have this problem).
Indeed! The doppelgangers that came out of Laios' brain got a real "haha relatable!" laugh out of me. I am real bad at recognizing people out of context, and I've been known to describe casual acquaintances so incorrectly that people have given me funny looks when they finally meet them. But the fact that he's able to figure out some of the more similar-looking clones using his much more accurate observations of his friends' behavior around food and monsters is also pretty spot on - I can remember fine details about a story someone told or topics they are into or foods they like or reject WAY more easily than I'll notice what side their scarf is tied on or what color their eyes are.
well except for Marcille the one thats all serious is the one out of Laioses Memorys. not recognizing Chillchuck scarf and Senshis Helmet correctly are probably his though.
@@timoth4529 I saw someone mention in another comment section that he remembered her like that because that's what she looked like after resurrecting Falin (the long flowy not-tied-up hair, how tired and serious she was, i'm sure there's more but right now i can't think of more, etc.)
“I’ve picked up on something no one is going into depth about”
Me: huh?????
“Except for the people on tumblr who really absolutely have”
Me: oh right I live there 😅
I'm surprised cause every CZcams video, TikTok and twitter I have seen from the fandom agree about it.
Tumblr is the LeBron of overanalyzing fictional characters
I'm ready to settle in for a cozy analysis of my current hyperfixation: autistic-coded characters.
Kabru really speaks to me as a high masking autistic person. It's so easy to be seen as "manipulative" when you're literally just doing your best to survive.
This this THIS.
Not only that, but his ability to analyze ppl reads like an obsession with wanting to understand ppl cuz being autistic makes it so hard to understand ppl. I adore analyzing fictional characters for similar reasons.
I agree. I also feel that since Kabru is someone who experienced a lot of chaos, disorder, and loss in his past, his fixation on social behavior and his resultant masking is a way for him to help himself cope with his loss and trauma. He gains a sense of agency, capability, and control through his ability to read and understand people, and that's why Laios, in part, is so frustrating to him. He recognizes on some level that Laios is someone else who is different and recognizes that difference within himself. But being completely unable to understand or empathize with Laios's monster obsession has prevented him from understanding Laios as a whole, which I find to be one of the most hilarious moments of the entire story.
Here is a man who has spent most of his life from childhood to adulthood surviving and taking on the survivor mindset. And yet, in the area which he feels he ought to be most capable in (combat, specifically in a dungeon-delving context), he is completely outdone by someone who he deems completely unsuitable to take on a leadership role. The irony of his fixation versus Laios's fixation comes from how the two interpret order and disorder. For Kabru, monsters (which are responsible for destroying his village and leaving him with the trauma that he has) are chaotic and unreadable beings that have no place in the human world. For Laios, monsters are fascinating and endlessly interesting creatures that have clear and definable rules governing anatomy, taxonomy, ecology, and behavior that one can discover through observation and deduction (unlike humans who have unspoken, illogical social rules and expectations that are hidden from and only known to those who can access them).
For both characters, they see order and disorder in different places. Kabru can easily make sense of complex social situations even if they involve violence or the threat of violence (see episode 14). Laios can easily understand the anatomy and behavior of different monsters even when faced with contradictory or unusual information (see episode 22). Their special interests help them make sense of the things that they like. But both are baffled by things that they don't like: Kabru by monsters and Laios by social cues. There's just so much humor to be found in these two characters who are so alike in so many ways and yet are just worlds apart.
Now my desire to be Legitimately Evil (DnD typology of worldviews) has gained more meaning... ≖‿≖
I'm not diagnosed, and may not even be considered to be autistic, even though I tend to recognize myself in a lot of examples of feelings and behaviors. One of those behaviors is the masking bit and the relation to manipulation.
There was a point where I examined myself and came to the conclusion that I was manipulating the people around me in subtle ways, and that this behavior was almost subconscious on my part. The way I managed to make peace with that was to decouple the negativity from the idea of manipulation and make the action itself neutral. The amount of positive or negative value comes from the intent of the actions.
In a sense, everyone engages in various forms of manipulation for their own benefits, whether that be physical of the world around them, internal to themselves, or socially on the people around them. People tend to act in a way that will lead to a desired outcome, or to avoid the least desired outcomes. There is no inherent malice in doing so.
I'm still hyper anxious in social situations, even though I know I have a fairly good grasp of most social cues etc. it's still always through a layer of translation, I never become actually fluent in how to act socially. So I still spend a lot of energy paying attention to others and trying to act in the way that will have the best outcome for everyone involved, which coincidentally often happens to also be the best outcome for me.
@drfoto2673 True, I guess the word itself could be neutralized. It just carries a lot of negativity connotatively, so it's just hard to de-couple sometimes. But you're right. I probably do need to just accept that I am being manipulative, and it doesn't always have to be a bad thing. (I should probably work on the people pleasing, though. That's probably not all that good for me.)
"Fun" fact from one of the side-comics of the manga (which so far haven't been getting adapted into the anime):
Shuro's real name is actually Toshiro. Laios just misheard him and, when Shuro tried to correct him, Laios just started asking questions about the eastern country Shuro was from. Eventually Laios introduced him to the rest of the party as 'Shuro' and by then it was too late to correct him.
Note that the servants do call him 'Master Toshiro', not Shuro.
As both a manga-reader and anime-watcher, I love this fact because it adds so much to Laios's believability as a character. It's clear through implication that in his enthusiasm to make friends with Shuro, he steamrolls through the conversation and unwittingly leaves Shuro with an inaccurate moniker. This small detail exemplifies the dynamics between both Laios and Shuro in a way that makes them both so believably human because this is exactly how real world relationships and interactions work sometimes. A neurodivergent person (heck, even a neurotypical one) may completely mishear someone and the resultant misunderstanding can cause significant ripples of consequence later on. This is such great writing because with such a small detail, the mangaka (Ryōko Kui) is able to establish conflict, character, and relationship all in one small piece of information, a tiny fragment that not only makes sense on its own but also stretches out to connect with everything else we know about Laios, his divergent behavior, Shuro, Eastern continent culture, and the world they both come from. There are all these connections between characters, the story, and our own world. That's good writing right there.
I think it says a lot about his character, and how their relationship would eventually blow up. Even when it comes to something as important as what name you want to be called, Shuro doesn't correct anyone because he was raised in a different culture and wants to be "polite." But it would be more polite to correct them, so they know to call him Toshiro. So his unwillingness to be direct clashes with Laios's ignorance of subtle communication, which was the whole reason he didn't like Laios.
@@chinclucker I think the name thing is less Eastern politeness, and more a Toshiro thing, as other eastern tharacters, including the uper(ish) class one don't act like that.
I have seen some people say they think Toshiro is on the spectrum too, I don't really see that, but the guy probably has some anxiety disorder going on. I have been there with the name thing.
i LOVED this detail so much, i originally thought his party calling him master toshiro was a(nother) manga translation error haha
If I remember correctly when Shuro's party runs into Laios's party (I actually forgot her name but she took care of him since he was little) called him lord Toshiro and I found it somewhat weird until it hit me that his true name was Toshiro and Shuro is a nickname given to him by someone in the party. Now I know it was Laios.
Glad you put the disclaimer in there about low and high functioning being seen as somewhat outdated! For anyone curious, my partner is autistic and is a support worker for other autistic adults and some common terminology is high and low support needs! I am absolutely not correcting superdude just wanted to share ig :)
High and low support needs is also imperfect as a term, but I do think it's better. It's a bit less reliant on how much the behavior inconveniences other people for its definition.
And how is it correct? No, better tell me where to find out what is correct, because comments may not be so convenient (for example, any links are blocked by CZcams itself)
Yeah I’m not fond of the “high” or low functioning” moniker. It feels like it overlooks the years of trauma and work it took to be perceived as “normal.” But I understand why it’s used, and why it’s also somewhat outdated.
I, personally, use high masking and low masking, for myself. It’s the best way to describe myself.
@@chlorophyll1415 you could read the book Neuroqueer Heresies, it spends a lot of time talking about language and how historically language has been used to pathologize autistic people/traits, and the language autistic communities tend to view as more accurate now. It talks about neurodivergence but is mostly rooted in autistic organizing/activism. There's also the book Unmasking Autism which briefly touches on this, but is more about the experience of being autistic in a somewhat intersectional way.
It's an interesting exploration of how many people view autistic woman as a desirable manic pixie dream girl archetype, but autistic men that portray the same traits are usually seen as annoying or a joke. I've been in the exact scenario Laios was in. A guy got close to me so he could get closer to my sister (who is also autistic) and called me annoying when he called me out for not picking up on his queues. He was not happy when I pointed out that the traits he found attractive in her where exactly why he found me annoying.
i do think its important to note that in all the ways that falin and laios are similar, they are very different as well, and many of the things that shuro likes about falin is something that she doesnt really share with laios so much. also first impressions can be hard to shake
Do people really? Cuz the show explicitly shows how miserable and alone Falin is as well. But maybe that’s the point, they want a girl who is isolated to have “power” over. I doubt they think well of their autistic traits.
@@sablesoftYou say that, but what are these traits of Falin's that Shuro likes about her that she doesn't share with Laios? Because the only one I can think of is she knows how to mask. That's it.
People bring up the caterpillar but they both like bugs, we see Laios play with them and put them I his drawer in the living armour episode
As an autistic woman who can mask enough to pass for a while, dating has always been very hard because the ND traits in me that people consider charming at first, slowly become annoying. I think NT people do get a first impression of ND women as manic pixie dream girls, but at the end of the day, if you're annoyed by autism, you'll still be annoyed by it eventually. Especially once you start doing major relationship steps like moving in, and spending more 1-on1 time together.
While I don't know what Falin does in the manga (haven't read yep) her proposal from Shiro, and consideration to accept it due to it possibly being her only shot to get married, are both relatable and deeply unsettling to me.
@@kjarakravik4837 laios and falin have different personalities, because they are different people. they may have the same traits but they present them in their own way.
the thing that shuro has an issue with in laios is something that they seemingly dont share, that is treading over shuros idea of common courtesy, and not being able to take a hint. also important is that shuro and laios are still friends, these are just grievances that came out in the heat of the moment, and now something they can put behind them.
Dungeon meshi's author already had a lot of experience writing neurodivergent people. I really recommend reading a short story from her other manga Hikidashi ni Terrarium - perfect communication. It's only 5 pages but it's such a good representation of anxiety and other difficulties in communicating with other people
Nobody can convince me she's neurotypical. The way she explores neurodivergence is so creative _and_ accurate that it can only be achieved by someone with lived experience.
I do wonder what would happen if Falin and Shuro _did_ get together. Like how much of his attraction to her is him liking things in her that he hates in Laios, and how much of it is him seeing her (and her mask) through his cultural lens and projecting onto her.
Maybe that's just me and my 'Marcille and Falin are gay, deal with it' ass projecting onto them all, but I look at how Falin reacts to the news that Laios and gang have been eating monsters and wonder just how quickly Shuro would realise 'oh no, behind the mask she's just like _him.'_
Anyway, adored this video and you made me relate _so hard_ to Kabru, sharing this with all and sundry.
Either he would have to deal with his own narrowmindness and apologize to laos , or they break up? Plus laios probably is her comfort blanket
btw i'm pretty sure falin is canonically uninterested in shuro, there's a bonus comic i can't remember but also in chapter 56 pg. 164 there's a relationship chart that shows shuro's love being one-sided and describes falin as "can't say no"
Probably might having something akin to what Shuro and Laios had, with them breaking up amicably.
If I had to guess, it would either shatter Toshiro's idea of Falin that he has in his head, or Falin would receed further into herself and become even more quiet and agreeable because of the societal pressures of being a wife in their time period.
It's not like Shuro is ignorant about how Falin is. The reason he fell in love with her in the first place is because he saw her staring at a caterpillar.
What annoys Shuro about Laios is his inability to take a hint, not his special interest in monsters.
I don't think a long-term marriage to Shuro would be a happy one (maybe with post-episode-17 Shuro, but definitely not pre-episode-17) because she'd be pressured to mask a hell of a lot more and not get to let her guard down like she can at least do around Laios.
The scene with Laois and Shuro struck a big chord with me because I had a similar thing happen to me as a kid. A kid I thought was my best friend told me he had always hated me, and it completely destroyed my self-esteem, basically until after high school. Having Laois go through something similar felt cathartic, especially since the show is asking us as the audience to sympathize with him.
I don't know if Ryoko Kui is autistic herself, but she is a master at writing autistic characters.
Other commentators have noted that in her past works they (the personalities of the spectrum).
And there are two options here = SHE is ONE OF US, or she has a close one from the spectrum.
I watched this episode after attending a birthday party. Let's just say I ruined the mood bc I was being an autistic bitch haha
I've been lucky enough not to experience that, but I could still relate to it. My partner worries about social etiquette and good first impressions, so to them I'm a walking disaster. Sometimes after a social situation they might scold me for being rude or weird, to which I reply "why didn't you tell me sooner??" and they'd reply something about hints and social cues.
They understand me and I understand them better nowadays, but it's still difficult. When they try to gesture to me to do/stop doing something by moving their eyes, I realise that they're trying to say _something_ but have no idea what. Then I might straight up ask, and apparently I'm not supposed to do that either...
Hope everyone is doing good. ❤️
Saw someone describe Kabru as minmaxing social interaction and I haven't been able to stop thinking about it since lmao
I have to mention, Shuro's problem isn't STRICTLY cultural; it's that he's a Young Master in this culture, and also very shy. It's repeated in various moments and supplementary material that Shuro is like, very very unusually shy, even by Japanese standards. Literally everyone around him is brash and direct, even the extremely restrained Benichidori. His Japanese culture is not the issue, it's his privilege and innate timidity.
As someone who's AFAB and aspec, Laios hit me and made me smile, but Falin stole the very breath from my lungs. We don't see much of her, but everything we did I could point to and say "that's me" in ways I just couldn't truthfully do for Laios. Kabru, on the other hand... from his first scene I could tell he was ND, and with every subsequent scene after I continued to get more unnerved. Not because of that fact, but because I *know* him. I've been him, albeit not to the same extent. I know those tricks, I know the mixed struggle and necessity of constantly switching masks and analyzing others to create optimal situations, to profit and survive on the backs of reading and at times manipulating others. I was unnerved because I saw someone like me who from one perspective shucked all my personal rules, but from another was just me under stress. No other story has quite managed to make me confront that "what if" in an impactful way.
Dungeon Meshi managed to capture two sides of my reality, and in two completely novel ways to me. When I looked to see if other people were reading the same things I was picking up, it seemed as though no one did. In a way, I'm glad someone else picked up on it, and I will fight anyone who says, to my face, that Kabru isn't aspec.
Thing about Kabru and his mask, his party is already well aware of his faults. Their reaction to their Boss losing the test of wills against Laios is, "oh jeez Kabru's done did it again." Like this absolutely isn't the first time he's boxed himself into awful situations just to get a read on a person.
And Falin, she's much better with people than Laios, but she didn't actually have many friends growing up. Marcille was her first (and potentially only) friend in magic school, where the other girls called her weird for skipping class and getting dirt everywhere. I sorta hesitate to call her a savant when her explosion in class was due to her cheating by shoving dirt from an actual dungeon into her assignment. She worked smarter, not harder.
And yeah, Falin is absolutely innately good at magic in ways that Marcille is fascinated with, but she also has an understanding of it that neither her or Laios really get (Falin was a poor teacher for Laios when she tried to teach him). Marcille has a wealth of knowledge from all sorts of backgrounds rattling around in her head, but Falin is better at a narrower range of spells. There's also the way they actually use two different schools of magic, Marcille uses elf magic (which is more rigid and consistent) and Falin uses gnome magic (which is less mana intensive).
Oh and since it sounds like you're anime only, there's a wealth of bonus material for Dungeon Meshi from the extra pages in the manga volumes, as well as bonus comics from the dvd releases AND extra books like the Adventurer's Bible (which was given an updated release in Japan after the manga's end with even more bonus material). Fun stuff to go through once you're far enough in the series to not mind the spoilers.
One thing about the 2 magic systems in the dungeon Meshi world is that they interact with spirits (the basis of a lot of magic) differently. The elf magic system is about tightly controlling the spirits to do exactly what you tell them to, down to the letter. Meanwhile, the gnome system is about treating the spirits with great respect (as you can see from Mr Tansu's attempt at calming the Undine) and gently persuading them to aid you in whatever way the spirit chooses.
The quirks of the gnome system would make Falin naturally gifted at it due to her kindness and her demeanor which gets other people to deeply care for her. Simply put, the spirits "like" Falin's personality, which makes her a stronger user of the gnome magic system.
dude when i read the scene in the manga of laios and shuro fighting i was like “damn yeah.. that’s happened to me before” but when i SAW and HEARD it happen on screen it really left me with a bad feeling in my chest and stomach. i really have experienced very similar situations with people i genuinely thought were my best friends. it hit closer to home seeing it play out on the screen. even though i did feel the connection when reading it, watching it had a bigger impact on me.
Frrr i think i started tearing up while watching it
Hope everyone is doing good. ❤️
Just _hearing_ about it makes me want to cry. It's too real man
These are all completely correct takes and I want to add another possible dimension to read:
Shuro can also be read as autistic. He comes from a high context society as you said and that can have the advantage of clearer societal rules, since even neurotypicals need it written out. He can cling to the rules in a way because a lot of interactions are highly scripted, making formal social interaction easier.
Some other reasons that are manga only or spoilery:
- has an interest in bugs - it's mentioned in the manga with the visual of Falin looking at the caterpillar
- extremely lonely as a child, no friends
- has a lot of trouble expressing any emotions - his retainers are all baffled when he expresses his thanks that they came and get emotional over it
At the very least he has social awkwardness down because he clung to social rules all his life. His attempted courtship of Falin is the one time he is breaking the expectations. Another reason for liking Falin can be that he saw himself reflected in it. (Also literally "even if I was a worm Falin would love me") Of course, things like trauma, lack of feeling loved or societal pressures can also explain these, but it can also be autism in there.
Yes!! I read a great post about it somewhere on Tumblr.
And Shuro (Toshiro) being autidtic adds YET ANOTHER layer to his relationship with Laois.
Toshiro envies him. Just a little bit. That Laios can be so openly tactless and weird and honest. And the party still respects him to a degree.
Toshiro can't do that. He will lose all his status back at home and the respect of his retainers and servants. He had to keep up the mask and stick to the rules. Sometimes just seeing someone else disregard it all can be a little painful.
@@clariss3946 yes!!!
The last one could just be cuz of the culture he was raised in. Ppl have said that Toshiro is a commentary on Japanese culture and how difficult it is to be ASD, esp in Japan, and how being Japanese culture actively makes things worse for everyone cuz of the restrictions. I think this is emphasized by the fact that he has to just accept the open affair his father is having and it’s just normalized. He’s not allowed to express himself, so seeing the siblings so unabashedly themselves was so out there.
I don’t see him as autistic, mainly cuz I know that there are neurotypicals who have been “jealous” of neurodivergent ppl. So the jealousy could stem from multiple things.
Multiple interpretations and i love every single one tbh.
That’s not to say I dislike the take! If anything, it means it’s an issue that can sprout up anywhere and it would be good if we could be generally more empathetic
I remember when Laios said that Falin had a way of tying herself to a person and just following them around and as a woman with autism, diagnosed in my late teens, I just saw myself in that. I was also so emotional during the Laios and Shuro fight. I got so mad on Laios' behalf because that's been me growing up!
Falin is also very much a people pleaser kind of autistic girl. Which is that early social conditioning you talked about for sure. I don't know if you've read the manga, but Laios talks about how he couldn't stand the way other people treated Falin when they were kids while she simply put up with it. As an autistic afab person I see a lot of myself in Falin, and in Laios. Falin being the side of me that represses everything I want to do and say and feel to please others, and Laios being the side of me that feels anger at the injustice of it all.
Also re: Kabru I hadn't considered him autistic but I do think that's a valid read. My friends with OCD tend to relate to him the most so we make jokes that Kabru and Laios are "the two genders" (ocd and autism), but of course both conditions can exist at the same time in one person. I just thought I'd bring up the plausible OCD.
Anyways, thank you for this video I enjoyed it very much. This is the first video I've ever seen of yours and it's really nice to hear another autistic person getting so excited and emotional over Laios.
As a woman of 40 years who has long suspected she falls under that label of "lost autistic girl", I knew episode 17 was dense, and spectacular and IMPORTANT instantly on watching it. I doubt I could have articulated to my neurotypical husband all of those layers so well or clearly. So thank you for that.
And while I know there's a lot more types of autist than the three you covered, I think - as a side note - I'm a Kaberu type that always masked like a Falin type... and I seem to be raising a daughter that is a Laios type. I fear for her once she starts kindergarden here soon in the fall.
Again, great video, and thank you for this breakdown that seems to be at least a little illuminating for the neurotypicals in my life.
I was also a Laios type girl when i was young until i turned "shy" started masking, I've been realising in my late teens I'm probably on the spectrum but none of my close relatives take it seriously and laugh at me for even suggesting i might be autistic.
Not that im qualified to give parenting advice, but just being supportive is often more than enough, and you're probably doing great!
Falin being autistic was solidified for me when she was depicted showing up with random bugs and plants and barging in on Marcille without any explanation. She had no conception of the social rules for making friends and interacting with friends.
Just because she wants to hang out with Marcille. but she cannot express this and Marcille didn’t pick up on it either.
She and Laios also understand each other and can translate their autism to their friends! We see Laios explain Falin’s actions to Marcille and we know Falin supported Laios in his interactions.
I think something interesting to think about is that toshiro also shows a lot of symptoms of autism, which is certainly something to keep in mind when discussing the fight they had and their interactions in the latter portions of the series
Yeah, I think it's notable that Shuro doesn't really hate Laios as much as he's frustrated with him and was overly emotional on account of being sleep-deprived, starving, and just witnessed his crush being turned into a manmade horror beyond his comprehension. Which made him say something he didn't really mean.
What he said was still hurtful, and I think it's a credit to Laios that he not only didn't hold a grudge, but even continues to hold a high enough opinion of Shuro that he literally says he would marry him.
There is a gag in the manga that was cut from the anime, where Laios didn't properly fasten the bell Shuro gave him, so Shuro's bell constantly rings whenever Laios moves. Which annoys the shit out of Shuro, but he still never throws it away and keeps it right next to his heart. Which I think is a great metaphor for how he feels about Laios in general.
Shuro is less of a neurotypical, and more of an autist whose culture and social class mean that he doesn't get the luxury of not masking like Laios does.
In the same way Kabru loves playing the game of social interaction and is dumbfounded by a guy who chose not to play, Shuro dislikes it and is annoyed by a guy who doesn't put in the effort to pass as a normie like he does.
It is in equal parts sad and hilarious that their entire fight could be interpreted as two autistic people in different sides of the spectrum duking it out
so true !!
"Maybe you should get better at reading the room, Laios!"
"HOW, Shuro?!"
These lines punched me in the gut. Laios literally asking "HOW?!" was decades of bullshit being validated. We don't always understand. We don't always pick up on cues. And that one 'how' made me feel understood.
I can't stress enough how great it feels to have a hero that feels like me. He's not some unattainable goal or a paragon of some lofty ideal. He's a dumbass trying to be a good person; not always succeeding but trying all the same.
"I've had this happen to me multiple times"
Same, friend. Same.
That episode made me cry. Thanks for this.
13:45 I found this really interesting because it was an opposite experience for me. It may be the intersection between my neurodivergent identity and my blackness, but people tend to assume I’m mad or annoyed when I don’t smile slightly. During COVID-19 I had to learn how to emote with only my eyes and forehead. I was also working a service job at the time.
AH! Intersectionality!!!
True, I was operating under a lot of privilege at that job. Outside of being white, I had also worked there for 4 years at that point, so I had moved up the latter enough that I was in charge of a decent bit of the "floor" during the peak hours (it was a dining hall).
Being a boss to people allowed me a certain level of authority such that I wasn't questioned. Didn't think about how that factored into the equation. As always, privilege is hard to spot when you're the benefactor. Thanks for pointing that out!
Yes, this is accurate. I had to smile with my eyes too.
Pre-covid I got to the point where I trained my mouth so that even when my jaw is slack the corners are at least level if not slightly upturned.
Could definitely get deeper into this, but that's a different discussion.
Oh yeah I've been getting pestered by my dad about looking angry most of my childhood whenever I have a neutral face
I would definitely say that the way girls are actively socialized to be "feminine" somewhat helps autistic girls. You're given pretty clearly defined expectations about how you should sit, speak, stand, and so forth. You're also explicitly reprimanded by older females when you don't conform to these expectations. It's restrictive as hell, but it's still guidelines that you can follow. Basically, the demands of being ladylike force you to develop your mask pretty early in life. Also, autistic tendencies like aversion to social situations and eye contact avoidance can be read in women as demureness and that can be appealing to some people (like Shuro).
For guys, it seems like the nuances of masculinity are expected to be absorbed more intuitively. Guys are expected to be more assertive and outspoken than women, but if you aren't assertive or outspoken in the right kind of way, you can quickly be labeled as obnoxious or pushy or weird. Of course, if you're an autistic male, you likely won't immediately pick up that people are viewing you this way. Especially since guys are known to express camaraderie by casually messing with each other, it could be very difficult to differentiate playful ribbing from actual disdain.
So I think that's a big reason for the differences between Falin and Laios. Also, Falin being a healer who seeks to understand spirits helps reaffirm her femininity, which allows people to more easily sympathize for her. Laios having an encyclopedic knowledge of monsters and wanting to eat them doesn't really reaffirm his masculinity.
The Laios/ Shuro fight was pretty heart-breaking stuff even if you're not in the spectrum.
The metaphor at the end was cool! The video did feel just like that, but more like discovering cool rocks or very interesting looking soil bugs (and not just regular worms).
I think for each opinion you brought up, you had solid points to back them up. I learnt a lot from this video.
To add to what you said about possible reasons for the late diagnosing of females with autism, it's so common in the medical line (especially in the US apparently) for irresponsible doctors to chalk up complaints female patients make to hormones, emotional rampage and female biology creating a false alarm. Ive seen so many online testaments of cases of headaches, pain due fibroids or endometriosis, or some other potentially fatal underlying illness get ignored, so it makes sense that this same problem bleeds into diagnosing for mental conditions as well.
"Are you pregnant?" and "you need to lose weight" are the go-to for a lot of doctors who refuse to take us at all seriously.
I seem to be a white guy, but the way people ignore the differences makes me feel like:
"Bro, believe me, this is evil, and you don't want to know what's going to happen next."
Therapist here. I've got ADHD and sensory problems, and I work with a lot of neurodivergent clients. One of the problems with autism underdiagnosis in women is that it's not just gender bias; girls tend to present certain disorders differently than boys do. Particularly in ADHD, and sometimes in autism as well. So a lot of clinicians don't know to look for it. But given my personal experience, I always go to the trouble of trying to find the best fit.
For clarification, girls tend to have less externalizing symptoms of mental conditions in general, which makes them more likely to pass through normal channels in their lives without provoking a lot of scrutiny. As a result, they don't get checked out and referred to treatment as often or as early as a lot of boys do. For example, teachers can easily recognize if an 8-year-old boy is disruptive and unable to sit still, but they might not recognize an 8-year-old girl who can never stay focused, or who displays a frantic insistence on observing and following the social norms of the girls around her in order to avoid being ostracized.
As for adult diagnosis, you have to know what to look for. Sensory difficulties always merit additional scrutiny. Intense, justified social anxiety resulting from a history of social dysfunction is another big clue. And constant struggles with perspective-taking and masking are relevant, too. I actually helped diagnose a 28-year-old woman with autism about a year and a half ago by spotting both of those traits - and she said it made all her lifelong struggles and behaviors finally make sense. That was a real triumph for me. 🙂
@@Drekromancer glad you mentioned that! unfortunately a lot of criteria for autism diagnosis were taken from studies done exclusively on young white boys, so there ends up being a lot of sympoms that get overlooked in terms of neurodivergence presenting itself in other types of people
Being Japanese (but growing up in USA), I really really appreciate you explaining how Shuro (Toshiro) felt, how he was on his edge from not eating, worrying about his love, and his stance from a cultural stand point. I believe all JP audience could see and emphasize with Shuro because we know and understand the cultural differences (and is aware that this is not the norm in other parts of the world, as Ryoko Kui sensei makes it a point by making Mickbell say how scary it is that Shuro just proposed instead of getting friendly first). So for me it was almost sad to see alot of reactions from other parts of the world about Shuro was that they just seem to hate on Shuro for not being forth coming, and how he was an asshole. Although I admit he could've done better, I don't think he is an asshole.
And also, I believe Shuro didn't really hate Laios. Sometimes annoyed, yes, but not hate. He himself admits that he was envious of Laios, and I think people forget that for Shuro too, Laios was the first friend he has made on the island, and considering he is young lord or something in his home country, Laios might be his first real friend he has ever had (that has no hierarchal relationship). He was with all those very capable ninja clan people, if he really hated Laios and did not want to be in his party he could've just said no and went with his clan. Or even just leave the island! So thank you for shedding more light on how it must've been for Shuro too, that it isn't just "oh he is an asshole."
the best parts of dungeon meshi is the one or two times we get to see Falin and Lios hang out. Because the whole show we see Lios be like, looked down on for his bullshit. Maybe tolerated at best. But then Falin shows up and she like actively enjoys and encourages it.
Like they really are just two peas in a pod. It makes total sense 1, why Lios is going so hard to get Falin back and 2, why when we eventually see their backstories that they are completely miserable when they are apart.
If you read the manga (and watch all of season 1), Falin absolutely did not "get away with it".
Falin was ostracized as a child, at magic school, and even was considered "weird" by people in the town hear the dungeon. She was blatantly treated poorly by her classmates at school. She *ran away* from Magic School because she was unhappy.
Even Marcell flat out did not understand Falin's behavior towards her. Marcell repeatedly judges Falin's behavior before they became friends. Did Marcell realize her errors? Yes. But Marcell is the exception.
I agree with your assessment of Shuro's treatment of Falin vs Lyos. But Falin was just as screwed as her brother when it comes to how she was treated growing up and as a young adult.
Fantastic video. What I really like about reading Laious as autistic is how often his autism traits are used to help the party just as much if not more so than be a mere joke. His hyper fixation often allows him to identify monsters and their traits before the party is ever gets into extreme danger. It shows how in the right environment an autistic person's trait can shine. I'm also grateful for Dungeon Meshi's positive representation because, as said in the video, that's a very easy thing to find. So much so that I've actually been writing a book with an autistic protagonist who I can personally relate to.
As for characters I've claimed, as I am autistic too, there's Chongyun from Genshin Impact. His high sensitivities to certain stimuli and tendency to take things at face value resonates with me. Plus there was an event where he said he no longer things of these traits of his as a bad thing and I felt so vindicated when I heard that.
"A third, secret autistic character" FALEN FALEN FALEN FALEN I KNEW IT WAS GONNA BE FALEN!
I think they portrayed it really well in the siblings, Liaos being a typical, extroverted and outgoing boy with autism and Falen having a more quiet and "palatable" kind of autism, which so many girls have due to societal pressues. As much as Shuro complains about Laios' autistic traits, Falen has many of them too, they're just more "palatable" to him because she's quiet and a bit shy.
Laios - Unmasked and stereotypical autism (not in a damaging way)
Kabru - High masking
Falen - Girl autism
My partner is autistic and has really opened my eyes to the world of autism. Watching this together, they also felt extremely connected to the scene of Laios and Shuro fighting. They had told me before how these things had happened to them, but through Dungeon Meshi there was a way for me to see exactly the kind of experience they had to go through. It's a fantastic piece of media that does representation in such a healthy way. No one is telling us these characters are autistic or "bad" for their behaviors. It just shows us them, as normal people, and lets us experience what they have to go through in their own struggles! Very happy with the show, and great video discussing all of it.
THANK YOU FOR THIS!!! As a fellow Kabru-type autistic- a Psychology major, someone who had an intense interest in theater and acting as a child (and was quite good at it too- scored all sorts of main roles because I loved partaking in the process of shifting into another person entirely 😅), constructed entire written documents about conversation and conversational prompts for my own "study guide," etc...
Linguistics, anthropology, you name it- as soon as I meet someone, one of the first things I want to do is learn everything about how they tick as a result of their biological and sociocultural influences.
So I've absolutely stuck by my belief that Kabru is just as apparently autistic as Laios appears, just as a different flavor. And I love to see you discuss the big dirty "M" word (manipulation) and how it relates to Kabru simply seeing the social "threads" and knowing how to pull them. People like to demonize manipulation as a concept completely, as though joking in a high pressure situation to ease tension, giving someone who's sad a gift, or making your appearance neater in a professional environment aren't all means of manipulating people's behavior to be more positive and beneficial to you that exist and are commonplace and even expected. The "Kabru-s" just see even more of those threads that they've grabbed for in a means to survive, so rather than condeming the mere idea of manipulation, although it can be messy to consider, isn't it telling about Kabru's behavior, at least, that he largely uses it for altruistic means? He wants to prevent another Utaya, he wants to keep his party safe, advocate for humanity's wellbeing, and reduce racial stigma.
And yet, I've seen multiple people overlook Kabru's well-meaning goals specifically because his internal commentary and ways of processing those around him is disconcerting to them- they can't look at the big picture of what he desires as a person. And that's personally something that I've experienced multiple times throughout my life, a Kabru-ified version of Episode 17's conflict. People asking me why I seem like I'm just saying what they want to hear, why I don't cry with them when I comfort them, why I plan out ways to solve their issues instead of just *being* there for them, and some people stabbing a finger into my chest and calling me manipulative, point blank. Each time, it stings, because you just see yourself as someone trying to do right by others, even if your sense of empathy is just inherently out of whack. But then you're reminded that your best efforts to have others feel better or cared for truly may just not resonate with the majority at times.
Kabru *could* have been someone cold who sees his party and other people as a tool, but the fact that he isn't is so, so important. The care he exercises towards his fellow man may not be typical emotional displays of affection, but it's there regardless as he considers the importance of people around him, and that low-empathy love is something that I want to see more in positive autistic portrayals in media.
Thank you for this video, as an autistic female, the section on Falin is so, so true, and you did a good job articulating it. It's similar thoughts I've had about her. Take care!
Thank you for highlighting Kaburu and Fallin’s autism too, cus their version of dealing with the non autistic world is so different from the usual representation.
On the subject of Falin, she dud get bullied in school for being tardy, and having dirty clothes.
I have a feeling she gained her popularity because her special interest happened ti be useful, which...Sadly happens a lot, eapecially if you're an autistic femme.
Also ita mentioned that Shuro proposed to her out of the blue, implying that they weren't even courting each other. Another reflection of cultural clashing.
Loved your reading of Kabru, 100/10!
im glad so many people are also enjoying dungeon meshi, myself and my neurodivergent friends are all going crazy for it, it somehow ticks every one of my special interest boxes for a real genuine love i havent felt for a show or manga in awhile. That so many characters are autistic makes it feel all the more heartfelt in alot of ways, theres that understanding between laios, kaburu and falin that they all carry with them in such a genuine and lived experience kind of way. The truths of who they are always shine through, complex people who feel deeply about the people and things they care about.
I really love Kabru, he's certainly my favorite character in Dungeon Meshi. I don't think I would describe him as manipulative, I think he only really would be described as manipulative in the way that autistic people conforming to society are described negatively. Manipulative for telling white lies or acting like you like someone in a formal setting, blunt for being honest and straightforward, naive for being optimistic.
He's not an angel, but like, he tends to be most using his masks in situations where it's expected. Fighting literal murderers in a place where they can't really die, doing politicking, trying to get an understanding of a possibly dangerous group of adventurers.
I think with the Shuro thing, many of us have that fear because it's happened, being suddenly rejected even though you thought everything was good.
I also really like how the line "You don't talk, you don't eat, why do you even have a mouth?" is both a sick burn and also a good showing of Shuro's character. When he's searching, he doesn't eat or rest, recklessly. And that act might be seen as noble or romantic, but it's stupid because it won't do as much or necessarily get what you want. A great metaphor.
I love Falin's autism, she is somewhat perceived differently due to her gender. But what also matters I think is her incredible magic support skills, and her place in the party. Being a leader is difficult, and it means Laios is always in the spotlight, which really doesn't help him.
When I noticed the dichotomy of reactions to Laios/Falin, my first thought is in the way that autistic girls and women are fetishized, especially on the internet. Off the internet I often see this manifest in the "manic pixie dream girl" trope
yeah i like that Dungeon Meshi shows how some of the traits that Falin and Laios share are seen as 'weird' in Laios but 'cool and different' in Falin. also, the way Falin has over time developed into a big people-pleaser, unable to say no for fear of not being liked. she feels her personality will only be accepted as long as it's a "palatable" kind of weird.
I really found myself attached to Kabru and his experiences as well cuz (minus the whole village stuff) it is pretty similar to my own experience and reading the manga. Similarly, I can relate more to Kabru than Laios. And I really found it fine when Kabru had a moment of just going over everyone in the touden party, just like how Laios goes into monster trivia.
With no major spoilers. I continued to like Kabru throughout in the manga even if I've seen others not like him cuz they think he's manipulative even though I don't super see it that way.
I always have that feeling of people hating me in secret as well, but since I've moved around so much growing up I've mostly avoided people telling me they actually do hate me in big reveal moments. Mainly cuz once I'm out of one environment in move into adapting to a new one. But it has happened. Twice it actually extended to like semi long bullying episodes where someone I thought of as a friend suddenly started treating me like shit or bullying me. And the first time I practically put up with it till I left, bit regretfully, the next time it happened I must admit that I turned to an offense tactic of Manipulation for defense. Where I basically had to turn the attention of those around me away and towards this other person. And I kind of regret it but tbh, I do what works. This doesn't work at home sadly, so I'm actually super lost in family situations unless my sister is around to help me.
Uh, I think I lost the thread of what I was planning to say. I think I wanted to talk about how my mask has certainly slipped recently both at home and out and I really appreciated dungeon meshi for how it depicted characters like Laios and Kabru (Tho obvs more Kabru for me) Even if I am a little sad about how some see kabru as manipulative most of all cuz I think about myself, but glad that there are many online who don't think as badly and seem to understand.
Something something thanks for the video.
Hey, i just have to say - same! I kinda get why people who have only seen anime think of him as Manipulative (or straight-up evil) but i hope that seeing the rest of the story would change it. Because at first i wasn't sure too (thought that maybe i'm projecting my masking, my reasons for it, on him) -- the rest of the manga gave much needed insight.
And i think what a lot of people miss is that he also has PTSD and survivor's giult > for him keeping people safe from That kind of event is viscerally important and takes precedent over being truthful. Kabru demonstrate times and times that he would do literally anything to achieve that goal. And if he is ready to die for it, smiling through gritted teeth is nothing. Is he right? maybe not [i mean, we as audience know that Laios is trustworthy. Kabru doesn't have the same luxury. From his POV all he does is justifiable]. Is he evil though?
It really upset me when ppl called his masking indicative of him being bad. Everyone masks. It’s for survival. Kabru and Laios show that whether you mask or not, ppl will dislike you. But it’s also a lesson that you have to be open despite how much safer it is to be closed, or else you’ll never connect with the ppl you want.
Kabru was such devastating rep. Felt so seen, in a deer in spotlights way 💀 [spoilers below]
(but more than that, the scene where the lion asks laios about his hatred towards humanity was my personal (horrified) hard hitting representation moment)
Can definitely relate to Kabru, love him, but you might wanna give people a spoiler warning? Put some space between the first thing you said and the spoiler?
That fucking scene was devastating. It truly was one of theeee single worst recognition of the self via the other moments I've had in media
Humans can absolutely suck! But honestly, animals can also suck just as bad, it’s simply harder to read them. Not all of them are wired the same way…
yeaaah that moment hit hard for me. when things are going well, i really like people. but there are definitely times when i've hated humanity and not wanted to be around humans at all.
Well, this turned into a bit of a novel.
TLDR: Great analysis. Spotted Laios and Falin, Kabru surprised me.
Neither white nor male, this representation does feel very similar to seeing someone who looks like my family represented in a positive and prominent light.
If you wish to read on, it gets a bit more detailed below, but that's the gist of it.
---------------------------------------------------
Kabru, huh? Didn't see that coming. I'll have to give that one some thought, although if I look in the mirror, it might make a bit more sense.
One of my longest lasting special interests is human psychology. My mother went back to school and graduated with a ba in psychology when I was eight and I read all of her college psychology textbooks by the time I was 10. Hyperlexic much?
There are plenty of times. People still don't make a damn bit of sense to me, but at least I can usually figure out what they're trying to say and how they expect me to respond.
It helps that I'm neither male nor white, and I'm likely way the hell older than you (lost generation) so there was a very different cultural and societal pressure.
Laios and Falin jumped out at me early on. For Laios at first I thought he was just quirky and socially awkward, but as the series went on I started recognizing, well, myself. And I realized he wasn't just socially awkward and quirky.
What really cemented it for me though was the things I heard a lot of neurotypical people saying about him. They were things I'd heard them say about me pretty much my entire (undiagnosed) life.
I may go through the entire show again before the second season. One because, rewatch until I have it memorized? Yes, please.
But two, maybe I'll take a closer look at Kabru.
It's funny but you can see traits in characters and to think well that's an autistic trait but know in your heart of hearts that that character is just quirky or anxious or socially awkward. They might be coded autistic but they're really not.
Then you see someone like Laios, and you see the way people in the show react to him and the way people who _watch_ react to him and it just looks… different.
“Her autism doesn’t deprive her of social capital, though”
Maybe not with her party, but… the majority of people in the world dungeon meshi don’t like Falin. She was ostracized by her village growing up, and then ostracized by her classmates.
She was also a social pariah, it’s just that her party is full of those.
With that said awesome video
I can't believe a video about Dungeon Meshi I watched while stoned is the most relatable content I've ever felt
As a rare case of 'early diagnosed autistic white girl' a lot of what you've mentioned really hit home. My initial watch of the show I could tell something was relateble about all three of the characters mentioned, but wasn't till around the Shuro confrantation that I myself realized, oh wait, Laios is neurodivergent.
With Laios I see my younger pokemon obsessed self that gradually became my current identity of loving video games and anime video analysis. Kabiru I see my observational skills and charismatic nature developed by being ingroseed in the theater. In Falin, I see that young part of myself that would wander away from my parents at the zoo to go at my pace observing the animals. Really good analysis :3
Though a much lighter tone, keep your hands off eizouken! also has some great rep. The main character, asakusa, is modelled after the author who is nd, not to mention it's a love letter to animation and altogether as great a show to watch as dunmeshi!
Loved that show! Even if my main takeaway was "man it's funny as hell that the MC is doing the special effects as she narrates the storyboards"... 😂
i've been meaning to check that one out for a while, but couldn't remember the title! definitely gonna be watching/reading it :)
Great video. I am autistic too. For me, a character I really relate to from anime is Mob from Mob psycho 100. Ive always interpreted him as being on the autism spectrum, even though I don't think its ever explicitly stated in the series. If you haven't watched it, its a show about a teenage boy with fantastic psychic powers and his journey of growth and self improvement. Its a great mix of slice-of-life, coming of age and fantastical elements.
The main character, Mob, has great difficulty picking up on social cues, usually has a neutral face expression, is considered rather naive by other characters and has major bursts of emotion which are expressed through explosions of psychic power. I relate to Mob very heavily. He was one of the first characters I ever saw in media who I recognized as being autism-coded. He is the main reasons that show is one of my favorite anime.
Im glad you enjoyed Dungeon meshi. Ive been hearing a lot of good things about the show and I think Im going to check it out. I checked out Frieren as it was coming out and I absolutely adore that series. You half-jokingly mentioned in your description of autism that many autistic people are very "lore-brained". I really relate to that. Im generally super interested in fantasy/sci-fi series with intricate lore. Another one of my favorite series is Hunter x Hunter. That series is famous for its deep lore, especially its very complex magic/power system. Ive heard Dungeon Meshi is also very lore focused when it comes to the monsters and Im excited to check outage series. Fans of fantasy anime have been "eating well" recently.
I’ve been on the “Laios is autistic” train for ages now (manga reader here) and it’s great seeing that get covered here! Also I think so much about Shuro basically saying “she’s not like other girls” when talking about falling in love with Falin, while I don’t hold it against him it’s a very telling moment of how subtler autistic traits in women can get treated as a “lovable manic pixie dreamgirl” kind of thing.
Also on my end I also read Izutsumi in the category of “girl autism” but given the facts that she (1) has a backstory that season 2 will get into (2) is a teenager (3) is a cat it’s not something I feel can be said with the confidence that one can say it about Laios and Falin
much like other people in the comments have said, i _adore_ Kabru (and also similarly Shuro) from the "social extrovert" autistic perspective (for lack of a better simple phrase). i know how to talk to people! i'm really good at getting along with people, often to the point where i'll let way too much slide because i'm too caught up in social conventions and being nice to realize that the other person's being a jerk -- which is to say, i've experienced the festering thing multiple times from Shuro's end, letting people walk over me and act (creepily familiar/insensitive/outright dismissive/just generally unpleasant/copying literally every single one of my interests to a stalkerish degree) because i can't bring myself to say anything more than the gentlest request to "hey can you maybe not do that" unless i am 95% or more certain that they know they're crossing a line and are doing it anyway. (and by that point i am _beyond_ furious for having let them do it for that long, obviously)
i love being around people. it is also _exhausting,_ and whereas Kabru swings more towards a self-justifying perspective, i often end up incredibly paranoid about accidentally (or semi-on-purpose-but-not-really) hurting/manipulating people, and it's a paranoia that makes the social exhaustion even worse. it can often feel like i'm having to mask internally as well as externally -- can't act too much on instinct, also can't act too much on learned convention.
it also makes asking for/accepting help _so_ hard, which is something i really see in Kabru and also Marcille. i have the unfortunate breakdown response of "have a panic attack for 5min, suddenly get incredibly competent at the thing that caused me to have a panic attack, be completely wiped the rest of the day because of the Work Through It response" and. [GESTURES AT MARCILLE AND KABRU] yeah.
oh, and also! awesome video! really well articulated, very thoughtful (avoids demonizing several characters that get the brunt of the "they suck and are the worst" interpretation, for one) and excellent subtle comedy editing! you've earned a subscriber :>
wow this comment got long. oh well. sending it anyway.
I hadn't seen anyone else clock Kabru as autistic so I'm SO happy I'm not the only one who got it!! Thanks so much for talking about it!!
I honestly saw Kabru as more of a sociopath than an autistic person, but your explanation on your viewpoint is also somewhat convincing.
11:57 I’ve always felt like a manipulative jerk for being like this. Good to know it’s a natural thing.
I haven't been diagnosed but I went into this show, saw Laios, and thought "wow he's passionate about the complexities of monsters, I can relate because I like doing that with people" and then right after the anime hits me with an even more relatable character in Kabru where he loves learning about the people around him and how they interact to form this social world on the island. Great video!!
manga spoilers ahead!! but more thoughts on kabru
-
-
the thing that solidified my 'kabru is autistic' thoughts while reading the manga was during his arc with mithrun. mithrun as a character just doesn't (seem to) care about anything except defeating the dungeon lord, and so when kabru initiates with his usual charm, it just completely bounces off. i think if laios is seen as trampling through the social norms that kabru is used to, mithrun is just a total non-participant.
and so, stuck in the dungeon alone with mithrun who he knows just doesnt care about these things, kabru starts to unmask. hes blunt, critical and is quite callous, but he still shows his care and empathy for mithrun's situation. the whole thing with kabru cutting down and changing mithrun's backstory honestly seems kind of mean at first glance, but you realise this is exactly what kabru has done for his own backstory. he knows that so much of life is how you present yourself to people around you, how much you choose to share, and so is trying to help mithrun in his own way. he shares some pretty intimate stuff about himself when theyre down there too!
i think if laios is kabrus foil, then mithrun is kabrus mirror
also obligatory shuro is also autistic propoganda, shoutout to all my toshiro autism believers
shoutout to all the Kabru and Toshiro autism believers fr fr
I've tried writing fanfics as a hobby, and writing a character to be unique, or nice, or villainous or ambiguous is already hard enough
Yet ryoko kui managed to write Laios and Kabru. I don't have the slightest idea about autism/neurodivergence. But, those are the most complex characters I've ever encountered so far.
This was so good!!! I love how you analyzed each characters portrayal, especially Kabru because I feel like there's not enough talk about him having autism too
One of the things that I love about kabru is that he shows not every autistic person is innocent and can do bad things as well and manipulate people
I feel like people infantilise autistic people and don’t view them as people and think we’re innocent and can do no wrong (this is with only some people)
Great video! Some things Id like to mention on how i agree or theorize about.
On Laios being person that doesn't use a mask... I agree! While I once was more Kabru like in my approach, i eventually switched to be more Laios like and it was much better for me. Something interesting to note though is that despite his lack of a mask, his party members are shocked about his desire to eat monsters. To me, this signifies that despite Laios's enjoyment of monsters, he was probably satisfied just having to interact with them as a part of his job. And if he ever needed someone to talk to about it, he had Falin. Speaking of Falin, I think that a core aspect of the series is that this is Laios at the lowest point in his life. I interpret a lot of his actions to be somewhat exaggerated due to him fully relying on his hyperfixations as a support to help him keep going. Its an over the top version of his normal behavior, and he has had no practice sharing his interests with anyone who isnt falin and isnt already interested.
I appreciated how you went out of your way to explain shuros circumstances. Both Shuro and Namari are great characters, and I'm somewhat conflicted on how Shuro got poorly received by a lot of people. On one hand, I like his character, and think hes more than just a hater (he leaves a connected bell that allows him to make sure Laios is still alive and also agrees with his decision in the end although he still makes his own choices, which to me shows that he cares to some extent...).
On the other hand... people are taking the autistic characters side in a core moment for a lot of autistic experiences. This is huge. I saw you show the "I am a surgeon" moment a couple times and I cant help but compare the two. Surgeon created a scene about witnessing an autistic breakdown from an outsiders perspective and it shows.
I think a lot of what makes Shuro like Falin and hate Laios comes from how with Falin, he's the one to be able to aproach and recognize the traits, where with Laios, the traits are push upon him and he cant handle it. Falin also just happens to have an interest that seemingly demonstrates empathy rather than obsession, which probably helps.
Its like mentioning you really like repqiring washing machines versus mentioning you really like helping animals.
On the topic of Falin being a savant, I agree, but I think it's important to note that Laios ISNT a savant despite all his incredible skill and knowledge (literally they pretty much only get into fights needed for food or a direct obstacle to their goal and I give laios full credit for this).
His hyperfixation is just as much a hunderance as it is a help and thats an important part of representing the trait. Just as much as he uses it to solve problems, it can cause problems or put him in danger. For example, the illusion dog. He doesnt need to jump at it once its revealed. All he has to do is let it get fireballed. But he jumps anyways.
14:44 The reason he's good at eliminating humans isn't really sinister. It's slightly sad, but mostly oddly sweet.
as someone probably somewhere close to laios on the spectrum, it meant so much to see that representation on screen/the page, but it's meant even more to see other similar people talking about it too. i often find myself assigning autism onto deeply relatable characters (most of which showed up at some point in this video tbh), but it's been such a breath of fresh air for this to be such a unanimous opinion amongst fans. i loved your analysis, this video touched on so many of those close-to-the-chest important moments i've worried were only important to me. :')
i did start to squint when you started talking about kabru, because i've seen soooo many people misinterpret his people analysis as a reason why he couldn't be autistic, so imagine my delight to see his masking recognized. i'm gonna break my neck if i keep nodding.
also "you get 5 autistic people in a room, you're going to get 7 answers" 11/10
...if i actually shared every thought i had while watching this video we would be here for a while, but yeah stellar video, must watch dunmeshi analysis, thanks for this gift, sorry this comment is so long
We see the story from the viewpoint of characters who care for Falin. But there is evidence both in the anime and manga that she gets ostracized as well. She was not accepted in school, and Marcille was her first and only friend there.
You mentioned during the bath scene of Falin not understanding the romantic implications of her actions. Contrast that with Falin presenting marcille some things to eat together (along with flowers that studio trigger decided to portray as the specific type of lily that japanese people use to relay romantic affection) and you see that Falin is also being affectionate in ways that Marcille doesn't pick up on.
I liked when you talked about Kabru. I was thinking that when the video ended I would comment to say "Kabru is autistic too!" But then you mentioned it! And talked about it in depth! And I cheered!
Also you mentioned the "using different forks while at a high society meal" and I'm (very probably autistic) and 37 and learned which forks to use when I was 16 and have kept that information in my mind ever since. I know it was an analogy, but couldn't help but think "I am prepared for that exact scenario!"
Meals will be served and the forks are placed so with each course you use the fork that's furthest away from the plate. When they take the plate they will take the used fork as well.
The perfect video title doesn't exis-
LOVE how in depth you went into kabru (and how hes Obviously also on the spectrum). i see a Lot of myself in him, so much that it made me wildly uncomfortable when i first saw his character- the amount of masking he does Just to get what he wants really hits home. the internal ‘god why am i doing this’ mixed with the ‘i HAVE to keep doing this’…. and then watching more and seeing how hes ALSO from a broken home… he just like me fr. i am Also interested in the stupid autism creature that is laios (though i’d probably be interested in laios’ hyperfixation with monsters- i Love learning about peoples interests and his enthusiasm is So Awesome!!)
wonderful video. i fucking LOVE dunmeshi
I wound up becoming a combination of Laios and Kabru in that I love learning the ways of interaction (I'm sometimes even considered boring for finding people's thought processes fascinating), which, in combination with my fear of being misunderstood, has lead to an interest in linguistics and etymology. On the other hand, I actively question all of the learned social ques because I've never fully understood them.
quick sidenote! 23:00 it was not a "relationship developing over years" falin had no idea he was interested in her until suddenly she was proposed to. she only considered the offer out of fear no one else would ever propose to her again, and doubted herself saying yes because she had "no special feelings for him"
yes I ship falin and marcille, it makes more sense. but falin and shuro in my opinion is just an infantilized obsession with a "strange" woman.
all of that is canon, except the last sentence, look it up it's in the adventurers bible for falin (canon source material to the manga, that doesn't really have any spoilers until you get way later into the character pages. and nothing spoilers past s1)
I mean, Falin is one half of that relationship. Shuro's feelings WERE developing over years, and is how I intended my words. I did not speak to Falin's feelings on it in this video because, as of Season 1's end, we have no clue how she felt (though I am aware she was more or less ambivalent),
Oh my god you are so good at explaining things, I hope you get the recognition you deserve
I'm so glad this is my first fully fledged anime.
That one moment with the nightmare laios’s nightmare really struck me
Great vid. Thank you for touching on Falin and the struggles of autistic women especially late diagnosis. I was assessed only a few years ago at age 31 and scored off the charts, and it made my entire life suddenly make more sense, lmao. I've always been "the weird girl." I used to get in trouble for not making eye contact or fidgeting too much when adults were speaking to me (and then I got in trouble for making TOO MUCH eye contact during times I was supposed to be subservient, I never grasped the inconsistent rules), I've always been deeply obsessed with my specific interests, I've had very strict and specific food and clothing preferences for texture reasons, the list goes on and on. My mother was a teacher and it still never even occurred to her that I could have autism because in her time and mine it was known as a "boys only" sort of thing, and only recently has that even begun to change.
(Final episode of season 1 talk ahead.) Falin has been so heartbreaking and fascinating. While she's thriving more now, in her small group of friends who know and trust her and doing a job she excels at, she HAS struggled just as much as Laios socially - she just didn't show her pain as much as he has. She was ostracized by her village same as he was, and she was bullied and excluded in school despite her talents - Marcille was her first and only friend for most of her life besides Laios until he put together their adventuring party. I think that's part of why their sibling bond is so strong - Laios and Falin both know deeply how much it hurts to be misunderstood and rejected by their communities, and have clung together out of both necessity and mutual protective love for one another because of it. And that's part of why it's so hard-hitting seeing everyone try so hard to save her - no matter how hard things have been, she IS loved now by so many people who are willing to do some truly wild shit to try to save her. It's just very nice to see.
Won't spoil the manga but I'm eager to see the rest animated and I hope you enjoy it too. :)
Dude, thank you soooo much for making this video, and thank god for my algorithm for recommending it so soon. When you mentioned kabru, I did a little jump in real life like yes, he is!!! Also, great research overall. Just subscribed bc of it. 10/10
Great video! Though I'd like to point out that Falin isn't loved by everyone. She of course means a lot to Laios and Marcille but a lot of the characters seem to regard her as very strange, it's especially visible in Marcille's school flashback where it's clearly shown how falin was very much an outcast in school. Also in the least episode Laios talks a lot about how poorly she was treated at their village and how alone she was. Of course people still seem to treat her better than they do Laios and it's not shown as much but it's still something that is present
Oh yeah for sure
Laios says she was ostracized by ppl cuz of her magic, but he wasn’t there at magic school. He wouldn’t know that ppl didn’t like her, or why ppl would dislike her since he likes her so much. But she’s been treated badly too. Some ppl like to pretend autistic girls have it easier….they don’t.
All of this is true, yes. I was more meaning within their group, but yeah, I didn't make a distinction. My bad.
This is a wonderful video. The notes about Kabru utilising a special interest in social theatre resonated a lot and was something I missed initially. Realising that two aspects of my own autistic experience were being represented between two characters (Laois, the unmasked; Kabru, the consciously masked) was actually quite pleasant! It made me acknowledge that my doubts about my diagnosis were misunderstandings about how I use my masking strategically. Kabru appears NT simply because he is proficient at playing the role. My peers only know I'm autistic if I deliberately unmask infront of them, much to their surprise. It probably is more liberating to be Laois among friends than Kabru among strangers! Thanks for the video, was a validating and enjoyable watch.
OOOOOOOOH MY GOD THIS VIDEO PERFECTLY EXPLAINS THE SCENE WHERE SHURO AND LAIOS FIGHT!!!
As soon as I watched that scene I just cried cause I could feel the hurt that Laios was going through, and *christ* it hurt when he said “how could I not be excited for making my first friend?” The sheer confusion, sadness and *dispair* of that line just breaks me every time I think about it, and the way you explained it was absolutely perfect!
Hearing you call us out as "The funny folks on the tumbly" kinda surprised me lol. I appreciate someone bringing this up on youtube, because almost no one who isn't on tumblr is actually talking about how well the series has portrayed neurodivergency through several characters, including the mc, without making them seem like they're "wrong", or a walking joke, or a strange oddity to gawk at. This video is excellent stuff!
Laiso has got to be one of my favorites in the show. He's a good representation, presented in such a way that we do get to see the positive negative of him. Plus he's literally got that dog in him lmao.
A guilty gear reference in the wild? Now that's epic. More serious note, amazing vid! Loved it! Also i had the same feelings on the laios/shuro confrontation when i saw it. The thought of someone I've known for years actually hating me and me not being able to pick up on the signals is actually paralizing with fear on a semi regular basis.
I really related to kabru and laois on like a personal level and I have not been diagnosed with autism
I love this analysis so so much, and the further we delve into the anime (I read the manga bc I felt starved for more content) the more I love Laios and Kabru! I can't wait for season 2 to be adapted I hold them both so near and dear to my heart 💜😭
Ive seen analyses on tumblr that also say that Shuro is autistic, and he doesn’t really actually hate Laios, just can’t stand him sometimes which I understand. I can’t put it into words as best as they can tho, just want to think that Shuro isn’t entirely a bad person, and that it’s just a clash of two different cultures and autism, bc fandom people also like to villainise the non-white guys
I am somewhere between Laios and Kabru on the spectrum, incredible difficulty with masking but constantly try to observe people anyways
"What Shuro finds annoying in Laos, he loves in Falin" woahhh that's a big revelation, hope it gets explored in S2
Thank you so much for mentioning Falin! People usually just mention Laios so I’m really happy to see all 3 of them being mentioned :D
THAT scene shook me to the core and I had to take a break and step away because I have been in some situations similar to that (thinking someone was my friend but it turns out they absolutely hate me) and knowing that affected other people as well makes me feel just a little bit more safe u know?
A little theory on Kabru and "manipulative tactics": The reason this behavior seems/is manipulative is because to an autistic person not innately privy to the rules of social interaction, any use of those rules, behaviors etc. is unnatural or a mask. You don't really use them in the semi-conscious way most do, almost all of it is a conscious decision.
I say this because of my own personal experiences. Sometimes I use certain behaviors because I know it will help me get out of situations and because I had to learn these things since they didn't come naturally, I get a sense of "I'm doing a thing to elicit the proper response", like a guilt for manipulating someone by saying I'm real busy when I'm not.
May I just say that I deeply appreciate how this amazing story has opened up so many great conversations for us autistics, and created the opportunity for non-autistic viewers to expand their interest and understanding of us. These discussions and sharing analysis and experiences hit so real in a way that stirs the aching of my lifetime of wounds from surviving under neurotypical society-but all at the same time, there’s a really special feeling of being authentically *seen* in ways nuanced for the first time.
God bless Ryoko Kui. Thank you for the delectable representation you’ve cooked up for us.
graaaaah i love thi s video i love dunmeshi graaaaah I LOVE AUTISM
Banger video, honestly feels like dungeon meshi was made almost exclusively so you could talk about it on your channel and you did it justice
Has anyone picked up on the detail on Laios mind that he's the only other person that studied Marcille's magic tome, so he's the only other person that has any remote idea of what it looks like inside it in the doppleganger episode. So his memory of details for his party members are actually pretty good.
Dungeon Meshi is if Berserk was a cooking show
I'd also like to add Marcille into the mix of autistic representation! Same goes for Izutsumi :D. Literally every main party member (and probably most side characters) in this show are neurodiverse in so way and it’s genuinely so refreshing to be able to see parts of myself shown positively and handled well within each new character 💖
Honest question, do you also see Chilchuck as neurodivergent? Honestly, he's the only one that doesn't seem like it to me. He's well adjusted socially, has no particular emotional hang-ups, is able to communicate readily with people of all ages (as a man with 3 daughters should) and accommodate their various personalities, and knows his own limits (AS A UNION MAN SHOULD). I don't find him to mask like Kabru either. He just knows to keep personal stuff private.
@@Archflip when I say neurodivergent I don’t just mean the autism spectrum! Things like ADHD also fall under that term. To me Chilchuck reminds me a lot of my own ADHD traits (though I think the general frantic nature of Half-foots is more of a general thing in canon). Best thing I can think of is his interest for disarming traps. As for social cues and stuff while he is good at communicating with others he has a big issue with conveying his own positive feelings, especially towards his friends (straight after episode 12 he gets all hung up wanting to protect the group but tries to think of every method to help them except talking lmao)
Then again he’s just a grumpy old man so maybe he’s just like that /j
Idk about Marcille, but I do see her w/ serious anxiety issues. She’s almost always panicking, doing things by the book in the hopes it’ll reduce unforeseen events, afraid of being alone, etc.
apparently ppl with trauma also have autistic like behaviors too, so I can see Marcille and Kabru falling into that.
@@LonksAdventures Chilchuck def had the sensory issues cuz of his race (it’s also why I love Otto from Re Zero so much). He looked so calm and relaxed when he became a half man. And I’m sure a lot of ASD individuals can relate.
I don’t really like to see every character in a story as neurodiverse mostly cuz just cuz I can relate, doesn’t mean they’re all the same. I have a host of issues, so it’s almost like each character has a bit of the issues I deal with. It’s so refreshing to find a cast of characters who are all so relatable in their own ways.
@@Archflip It's shown that half-foots deal with so much more sensory input than other races, and mixed with their small size and their lack of strength, and magic for that matter, compared to other races leads to a lot of anxiety. So, I guess you could call them neuro-divergent compared to real world humans. Like, it's pretty telling how much more calm Chillchick is when he's a tall-man for awhile.
Watching a comfy little video essay on autism representation in one of my favourite anime atm has made me unreasonably happy. Thank you for making this!
Haven't really gotten into the meat of the video yet but seeing Jellyfish rated so highly by you but absolutely no mention of GIRLS BAND CRY is criminal.
Please give it a shot - it's such a breath of fresh air, from the animation to the characters to the humour to the drama. Legit the first anime to make me tear up, laugh out loud, and hope for a second season in quite a while.
No joke, watched all of it today. May write a video, I'm feeling like watching Bocchi again, may make it a girl's bandime video
@@superdude10000 let's GOOOO!!
I’m so glad someone talked about this!! It’s an important subject. I’d like to point out something, which is that Laios’ english VA is autistic himself and was consistently aware of Laios’ autism and doing his best to convey it as well as possible in his performance. I think he did magnificently, especially in the Shuro scene you dissected. It warms my heart.
I hope you consider doing a sequel of some sort when the second season is finished, there’s a lot still to glean from the story and characters from an autistic perspective that hasn’t been animated yet.
I just want to say, this is a brilliant analysis. I'm a therapist with ADHD (and I suspect some autism as well), and both this show and your analysis add a lot of nuanced, positive examples to the discussion. The social savant example struck a particular chord for me. Keep up the great work!
This is such a cool, well-made analysis!! I've been seeing ppl discuss Laios's autism a lot and it's great to see a full vid analysis including the cultural dynamics too :-)
This brings me sooo much joy as an Autistic person! I am definitely a mix between Laios, Kabru, and Falin as an Autistic person. So it's soo nice to see someone dissect how Autistic Laios, Kabru, and Falin are within the anime. Its just so nice to hear someone talk about how Neurodivergent this anime is and how much us Autistic people are connecting to these Autistic characters within the anime. Also, Episode 17 hurt me emotionally too! I've also experienced something similar, so it hurt to see on screen. Loved this!
I will add that what is really used instead of functioning labels is something called lower and higher support needs. This is because it recognizes that Autistic people have different needs and will need different accommodations. Even the ones who are lower support needs still have needs that should be met. I think why as adults we don't meltdown as much is because we can control our environment more and we have more tools as adults to regulate ourselves in comparison to as kids where we were told we should follow what the adults say. If we feel we need to leave the room, as adults we can just leave. But as kids, we have to wait for our parents. It's just an interesting thought about why we may be more likely to meltdown and more as kids. Lack of control!
I was already planning on reading this but now I’m even more convinced to read this. Can’t wait.
ahh thank you for addressing shuro's culture and the context of their fight. it's easy to villanize shuro but there is a bigger context here that amplified their misunderstanding both ways.
as an autistic woman, I think that a lot of the characters also put falin on a pedestal (shuro especially) and maybe... sweep her more autistic traits under the rug for their own comfort. it's easier to do because she doesn't complain, she isn't loud about it... We also know she was indeed ostricized and had no friends in school, until she befriended marcille. And although it's obvious marcille adores and cares for her, she also sighs in resignation when falin shows excitement and curiosity about eating monsters lol she knew this would happen. I'm happy she had laios even if he did leave her alone for a few years, when her affinity for ghost related magic was discovered all the adults were upset but he was supportive
This was a great video! I'd been wondering whether I might be some flavor of neurodivergent for a while, but watching Dungeon Meshi made me really look inward with how much I related to Laios, especially after episode 17. Finding out the people I care about secretly hate me is one of my worst fears, and it doesn't help that I have a lot of trouble telling whether people find me annoying. I also see a lot of myself in Falin since I default to being quiet in social situations and seemed to be perceived as a mysterious gifted kid in school.
Also, something that was never brought up in the video that I think is cool is that Laios' English VA, Damien Haas, is autistic and very open about his experience being neurodivergent. With how often western media has neurotypical actors playing autistic characters, I thought that was a nice touch on the part of the dub.