Trains in the UK are let down by 'ironing board' seats, and a lack of understanding what First Class should mean. The Caledonian trains are in general very good - but could be so much better. They could start by getting rid of rattles, and then strap the seat designer into one of his/her seats for the journey ! Bet they'd change them then. This was a good and fair report - thank you.
So many decent new trains in the UK ruined by 2 simple things. Seats and lighting. Fixable but so annoying that our DfT cannot see the self sabotage in cheaping out on these things.
I agree. Why are they so fixated on these seats? It’s not like they’re packing the trains with passengers and must use the maximum amount of seats possible… To that end, the new Lumo service has much more comfortable seats. At 3 abreast, there’s enough space here to have giant, Amtrak style recliners. Why this rubbish? To be honest, they’d do better on the Caledonian by eliminating coach seating completely and just converting everything to sleepers, then lowering the cost of sleepers slightly. It would increase revenue and provide more actually desired capacity.
Even first class seats on those Azumas/IETs are awful as well, I choose Avanti over LNER when I need to travel from London to Edinburgh before the launch of Lumo service as seats on Pendolinos are far better than Azumas.
In my wide railway experience and having had to use the seat coach to Glasgow due to no berths being available, I have to agree. The seating coach looks great but boy it is a very bad design. The seats are shockingly uncomfortable. They DON'T recline, they are SOLID seats. The seat squab does move a couple of inches but that is no help. People on my one and only trip (NEVER AGAIN) were having to lie out ON THE FLOOR because they could not get comfortable. What is just as bad is the ride quality. Shocking. Noisy, clanky, bogie rattle all night long.......give me a mk3 or even mk 2 any time. Caledonian, you should get one of your senior managers to try it out. You would then make the decision to REPLACE all the seats with comfortable ones that ACTUALLY RECLINE. If you need to maintain the same number of seats in the coach, then I suggest people would rather have 2 plus 2 (4 abreast) with decent recline rather than 2 plus 1 without recline. These coaches will be around for decades. Do it now for the sake of your passengers.
6:22 The haggis with neeps (“swedes” or “rutabagas”) and tatties (potatoes) in a whisky cream sauce sound very appetizing ! Good on Caledonian Sleeper for including traditional Scots dishes on their menu !
To be honest, I think the clue is in the name - Caledonian 'Sleeper'. It is primarily a sleeper train and is marketed as such. If you need to travel overnight to/from London, and choose a seat over a berth, then this train certainly beats the only other alternative... a bus! 😣
I travelled from London Euston to Aviemore in September of last year on the Coach service of the Sleeper. I have used the Caledonian Sleeper service for several trips over about 20 years. I prefer the beds, but have used the seats when the beds were not available. The old style seats were much more comfortable than the new ones, although the train was in need of refurbishing, clean and well maintained and run, but looking worn.
Wel, at least people in UK or outside Indonesia have options between seated coach or sleeper coach. In here we only have seated coach for a night train with more than 10 hours journey. Our state-owned entreprise railway only focus on capacity and that's shame :'(. I'm always envy with people who have a chance to ride a sleeper train.
The only visible possibility for sleep acomodation on Indonesian train is adopting double stack capsule hotel style with full reclining seat or bed, the same that applied on intercity bus with sleeping accommodation. It give more comfort than conventional Eksekutif class seat as it can reclined fully and give more passenger capacity than old couchette model like in europe sleeper train or the Luxury class. Given the size of the passenger car operated in Indonesia train, it can give 30-40 passenger capacity, 4-14 more than Luxury class (26 seat) which can lower the price, around 30% cheaper. The double stack capsule hotel style also give more comfort even more than current Luxury class as it use the full flat bed or near completely reclined seat. I don't know about the limited recline regulation for the bus (maximum 170 degree recline) also required on train or not but if its required it's still give advantage over couchette model or airplane style seating on Eksekutif class.
I don’t care how comfortable the seats are; they could be made of duck feathers but still I wouldn’t be able to sleep a wink if I’m not lying down. I discovered this fact the hard way years ago when I took the Paris-Nice sleeper, and hoping to save a few bob, I opted for the cheap seats; I literally did not sleep a second. What made it all the more galling (aside from ruining the subsequent first day in Nice), was nearly everyone else in my carriage appeared to sleep like babies. It’s not a train thing, though, as I can never sleep on long-haul flights, either. Normally a good sleeper; just need to be horizontal.
Thank you Thibault for enduring a coach class, uncomfortable, almost sleepless journey for your viewers!! That long trip would only have been in first class sleeper for me. Thank you for sharing your experience. 😀😀♥️♥️
Personally I don't understand why the Caledonian Sleeper don't have French-style couchettes instead of these sleeper chairs. They are a lot more comfortable and the costs for passengers would be around the same.
Same reason why we dont see em in america: a lot of people are opposed to sharing a room with a person (tho they'll be fine with sharing a pair of coach seats). I think younger people are warming up to the idea so it could change, but i'd car culture definitely played a part in this anti-couchettes mindset.
@@piemadd The fact I'd have to hear another human breath and make sounds of life would be repulsive. Imagine going on holiday and having to be considerate of someone else in a small shared space. I'd rather clock in for my shift and not even go on holiday lol
@@alexandervalaris72 Not in the US, in rooms AND in coach. Also I was hinting that they would serve as a good replacement for coach, the same (or higher) density with the same people you would be around, as seen in coach, with greater comfort.
There’s no way I’d travel in the seats overnight - even to make a video! As a light sleeper anyway, I have enough difficulty sleeping in the cabins tbh. Re: the dining car being closed due to staff shortages, this happened to us when we last used this service and seems quite a common problem. For the price you pay, they should really sort this out.
This video brought back fond memories of a round-trip between London-Euston and Inverness on a British Railways sleeper train in 1970. The first-class compartment I booked was surprisingly affordable compared to French 𝙬𝙖𝙜𝙤𝙣𝙨-𝙡𝙞𝙩𝙨, which were expensive. The compartment was smaller than the French ones, but it was comfortable and featured a small sink with a mirror and hot-and-cold. There was also a large window with which to admire the Scottish scenery in the morning. The on-board service was wonderful. When I arrived at the entrance to my carriage, a uniformed attendant had a list of all the passengers of the sleeping car with their names. This enabled him warmly to greet all the passengers by name ! Also, a list of passengers was posted on the sleeping-car’s interior, so you could tell whether anybody you knew was on the train ! In today’s security-conscious environment, what with crime and terrorism, this would be unthinkable ! In those days life was peaceful, civilized, and safe. No policemen with machine-guns the size of Greenland in the stations and on the trains. No health pass either, of course. Shortly after I settled in, the car attendant stopped by and asked whether you required early-morning tea at 6:30 a.m. Anxious to observe British traditions, I said yes, and promptly at 6:30 a.m. the attendant delivered a tray with tea and biscuits (with a real teapot and a real teacup) with a cheerful greeting of, “Good morning, Sir ! Did you have a restful night ?” Before settling down for the night, I partook of dinner in the dining car. While not gourmet, dinner consisted of well prepared British food that was flavorful and filling : roast beef (perfectly cooked with mash, two veg, and mushroom gravy, even the green peas were good and tender and not smothered in mint sauce (available on the side upon request), bread roll and butter, and a nice pudding (some sort of trifle, if I remember correctly). I’m French and fussy eater, but I was quite satisfied with my dinner. All in all, it was a lovely trip. On the way back, the list of passengers came in handy, as I spotted the name of someone I knew, a Frenchman who was returning to Paris after a fishing holiday !
as good as travelling in these prestigious trains yourself. so enjoyable, vibrant, professional and informative are the videos by frenchman thibault . would like him to do a pan canada coast to coast viarail video, vancouver to halifax and new zealand scenic rail journeys.
Excellent video, shame about the seat! Good service from the attendant to give you a coffee though! Absolutely right to book a sleeper cabin if you can!
I've only travelled once in the seated coach on this service when they still had the mk2's. Those were more comfortable than what is currently offered. Still didn't get any sleep though as it's difficult to sleep while sitting up. These days I book a Club Room on this service whenever I travel to Scotland overnight.
Its sort of a shame. Amtrak has some of the best trains I've ever been on, but they don't stop anywhere near where i live. So i have to drive 2+ hours to a station.
@@andrewauto6082 I have to drive further. But that is the price you pay living out in the boondocks in the Texas panhandle... Amtrak please bring back the former Burlington Texas Zephyr's train route from Denver to Houston through Amarillo and Dallas...
I did coach on the Caledonian Sleeper way back 16 or so years ago and it was atrocious. Honestly this looks like a very big upgrade over the old train. On the old train while the seats were meant to recline, they were broken and didn't (a metal bit of the frame dug until me the whole journey), the restaurant car was closed with no explanation and the toilet ran out of paper before we'd even left Scotland. They also didn't dim the lights at all for the whole journey. The reason the coach was so busy even now is because so many people in the UK just can't afford the cost of a sleeper cabin. It's also why you'll find the night buses are often jam packed (and trust me never do the night bus, it's so much worse!!!).
The high speed services to Edinburgh are better, faster and cheaper than this, but… ScotRail needs to get their act together and improve their tracks/electrify, so that they can at least get to 124mph and connect at Edinburgh faster.
It's a real shame what they have done to Aberdeen Station, it used to be beautiful on the outside before they built a shopping centre over the entrance! Also very hard to arrive there by car now, nowhere to park or drop people off.
I went to Inverness last September - booked a twin club room - i never slept at all both journeys - i was on the top bunk , quite claustraphobic , bumpy journey and noisy ( even with ear plugs ). at least i could lay flat and the bedding was lovely quality. I would go again on the caledonian but maybe have a double room or be on the bottom bunk. There customer service team are absolutely brilliant. There were other issues we had both journeys and we had a refund of £150. It was still an adventure and Inverness was a beauty place to visit .
I tried the seat service in sept, which was cold and the lights where far too bright not to mention the ironing board seats. My bike by contast had a darker and warmer experience.
I always knew the emblem had to do with the Highland deer....but thanks to you, I only just noticed that 1 antler had 3 prongs, and the other antler , 2 prongs ( and the reason for it ! ) Thanks
Hi Thibault, love your train travel vlogs, I’ve not done the Caledonian train but many years ago I used to have to travel from the ferry station (Stranraer) down to London and it was a nightmare no sleeper then on that route as far as I can remember but at least they had compartments and occasionally you could lie along the seats but no matter what you tried sleeping was impossible and I always arrived red eyed bleary and tired and that’s why folks I took to flying instead
There was an overnight sleeper from Stranraer to London, running via Kilmarnock, but it finished in the late 1980's. For a couple of years after, passengers wanting a sleeper were allowed to travel from Stranraer via Glasgow at no extra cost. Then Ryanair took over and the market fell away!
Took a trip between Aberdeen and London on the sleeper car. It was a fun experience, but didn't get much sleep. I loved the dining car. I had a 3 course dinner wine and everything.
Unfortunately the cabins in the new Caledonian sleeper are horribly expensive. They're for tourist 'experiences', not regular travel. I used to use them often for work; since the new sleeper it has been cheaper to take an evening train and stay in a hotel. If I had to travel overnight again I might think about the bus, which was better than the seats in the your video when I last took it... 25 years ago.
An enjoyable video, thanks. your use of English adds character to your narratives. I live in Glasgow and used to use the sleepers now and again, but when Serco took over it went downhill and I haven't used it since. Things seem to be improving again so I might give it a go - although I did see in your film that the restaurant car was closed due to staff shortages. Looks like they still have problems. The Class 73 locos used in Scotland are an amazing example of longevity. I liked the lockable lockers for valuables. On-board train theft has been increasing in recent years in the UK. When I go to the toilet, if I've been using my laptop I take it with me! You expressed surprise at how busy the coach class was - but of course not everyone has the money for a sleeper. When I recently did an on-line search for a sleeper (Glasgow or Falkirk to London) I couldn't find anything under about £230. And clicking the box to say I had a Railcard made no difference price-wise. So I didn't go - I had fancied a trip to London but gave up on the idea.
Another win for Amtrak. Even though they use the same types of passenger cars in the Northeast, they understand that the seats shoudl be different. The Amfleet cars used on the Northeast Regionals and other intercity routes have VERY different interiors to the Amfleets used on the overnight trains, and the latter are better off for it.
Oh man, I wish I had seen this video before my Interrail trip. I took the train from Fort William to London in coach and it was horrible, as you said. Yes, the train looks nice, fresh and new, but there were multiple problems. 1. Connecting in Edinburgh. For some reasons, they don't keep the coach cars. Out of 3 cars, only 1 went to London which was stupid. I travelled from Fort William to London perfectly. I slept for 2 hours non-stop, perfect. You have to wake up, get out of the train, wait for the other trains to arrive and connect and then get to the other side of the platform to check in again. Why CaledonianSleeper? Just let it be the 3 coach cars and fine. 2. Because of this 3 -> 1, the coach was extremely full. We were 3 people from Fort William to Edinburgh. From Edinburgh to London, the coach was full to the last seat. I had reservations (for even 2 people, but my friend got sick earlier on the trip, so I was alone) but a family with idk how many children, probably 4 or 5 were on my seats occupying them and they didn't want to move. First, in front of me sat a drunk one drinking beer on the train and smelling awful. Then I moved to other place, but it wasn't really better. 3. It was noisy due to the kids who screamed to hole night, the air conditioner was loud. The ride wasn't smooth. I would have gone with the sleeper car, but it was extremely expensive. I don't get, why they don't introduce couchette for cheap travel. I don't need breakfast, a fancy bed and a shower. Just give me a simple bed and a room and that's it. So yeah. I should have gone with the alternative and change trains in Glasgow to a standard non-sleeper train. But thanks for you report!
Do not get a seat with another seat facing away behind it, the recline always sucks. You want a seat behind you that faces the same way as you. And I've ridden coach for 2 nights 3 days from Los Angeles to Chicago. Definitely a comfortable seat is necessary. And so is being able to lean on the side of the window. 😉 I use a small travel pillow.
Good video! It’s amazing that the most fundamental element of a coach, namely comfortable seating, is a such a fail here. What were they thinking? Arriving before 8am would not be much use if you are basically in zombie condition. I assume extremely cheap fare is worth it for some travellers but I would prefer to travel during the day.
I get the advantage of avoiding a hotel cost but there’s the comfort factor to be considered. I think it might be related what matters more, and it may be related to age!
Staff are still needed inbetween the coaches to couple/uncouple the electrical connections, all the scharfenburg does is stops the nasty lurching of a buckeye coupler.
I have travelled on the sleeper from London to Inverness, but in the old stock and in a bed, I had a good nights sleep as well. Didn`t know anything about any stops we made
I agree. Whether you put a mall inside a station or a station inside a mall, what’s the difference? People complain about not having stores, until there are stores, and then the same people complain about having them.
@@afcgeo882 the issues is we don't try to find balance. Designers seem to start off with building a mall and then figure out where to shove the planes, trains or buses after. Instead of figuring out where to put something the traveling public would need and would attract non riders.
@@thetrainhopper8992 That’s your opinion, and you have your right to it. Facts are different, however. Lets not dictate baseless opinions as facts. That’s not at all how anything gets designed, and I suspect you’re just being facetious, but it doesn’t come across well on the internet.
Sorry to hear that the seated accommodation is bad. A few years back I had seated accommodation in one of the old mk2s between Carlisle and Euston, it was very nice and I got a great nights sleep!
I have, many times. It was fine. The seats are decently comfortable. You can recline. Obviously, it''s not as comfortable as a sleeper. But it was ok and the cost saving was terrific compared to what you pay for a sleeper.
The "mall-ification" of historical buildings is exactly the type of vulgar mercantilism you would expect from the UK. Next, they'll open a Ladbrokes store amongst the dolmens in Stonehenge. I already see the punchline: Lucky Rocks! It's sad.
Pour un train qui conserve un certain standing, des couvertures pourraient être proposées aux passagers des places assises. Il est clair qu'un sleeping est bien plus confortable. J'espère un jour faire le Londres-Fort William pour profiter des paysages d'Ecosse au petit matin. Merci pour la vidéo.
Considering that we live in modern times and the trains look all nice and shiny , I think I would have preferred to travel in an old Mk 1 carriage stretched out in a compartment with the lights on dim and the heating on full .
Great video, Thibault! Sorry you weren't able to sleep much, though. While I'd never book a seat in an overnight train (since a journey from Inverness to London in non-aircon Mk2s), my sleeper experience wasn't much better. I went from London to Aberdeen in July: booked a Classic room in the middle of the carriage which should have meant a better night's sleep. Got to Euston and was told that my room didn't have any water and I'd be upgraded to a Club Room (ensuite), which was at the end of the carriage. So I got an awful night's sleep and the water wasn't heating up either. It won't put me off night trains, though. One of the Nightjets is planned next!
I took the seated coach on the sleeper to London from Glasgow back in 2013 or thereabouts because my employers were paying for it, so naturally got the cheapest tickets. Never again! Getting a proper bed is highly recommended.
If you travel in seat class, only do so on lines where there are compartments. You can turn off the light and don't hear everything from across the coach. And usually you can turn two opposing seats into a little bunk. Also these seats are way more comfy
C'mon Thibault, what did you expect in an overnight trip. Have you ever flown coach class in an overnight plane trip? If you are not the type who can easily sleep on these types of trips, don't do it. I just flew back from Seattle to Detroit on a red eye in comfort class and it was excruciating. But I knew that going in. I would have flown first class if there were seats available. If you can't handle the cheap seats, take the bus.
I knew when I laid eyes on those seats it wasn't going to be a comfortable sleep. The seat pitch is not enough for long distance and the cushions are very thin. Thanks for a great video tho.
So, they need to fix the rattles and noises and acquire some seats with better padding and a good amount of recline. Not rocket science, is it. Or, maybe, fit double bunks with curtains instead of the seats and call it couchette class?
They allow pets on the train? We have a Carstairs in Alberta, Canada. When on a plane I lean forward and use the tray to "lie" on. That's how I sleep. I would love to go on this sleeper train.
Try the Fort William section,seated coaches only go to Inverness and Aberdeen so the FW passengers have to get out in Edinburgh at 0400 and change to a seated carriage shunted on!FW to/from London is beds only guessing it must be something to do with the length of the train?
A propos, Thibault, tu as essayé le 𝙝𝙖𝙜𝙜𝙞𝙨 aux rutabagas et pommes de terre sautées ? 𝘉𝘺 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘸𝘢𝘺, 𝘛𝘩𝘪𝘣𝘢𝘶𝘭𝘵, 𝘥𝘪𝘥 𝘺𝘰𝘶 𝘵𝘳𝘺 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘩𝘢𝘨𝘨𝘪𝘴 𝘸𝘪𝘵𝘩 𝘯𝘦𝘦𝘱𝘴 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘵𝘢𝘵𝘵𝘪𝘦𝘴 𝘸𝘪𝘵𝘩 𝘸𝘩𝘪𝘴𝘬𝘺 𝘤𝘳𝘦𝘢𝘮 𝘴𝘢𝘶𝘤𝘦 ?
Honestly, I have no idea why they still offer coach seats on a sleeper train. Why not go down the Amtrak route and offer roomettes with seats that fold into beds and bunks? Or couchette rooms for those on short journeys?
While I am not certain, this trains does not stop in England for embarking or disembarking passengers until it reaches London... Most of the Scottish stops are before midnight southbound, and after dawn northbound... In Scotland other trains run during the daytime hours...
That was and interesting trip although like you said lights, rattles, and seats = Fail...😢 Thank you for sharing this video with us. Stay safe out there...😀
I really liked your Europe Train review! It's sad to learnt that you were not able to sleep well that night...did you caught some sleep after the journey?
I've journeyed on the Caledonian from Edinburgh to London but in a sleeper car. Cannot imagine doing it in a coach seat. Thank you for taking the hit for the rest of us. It's a beautiful train but 10 hours overnight is too much for coach.
Why the Americanisation? 'Coach' class? In the UK? Why avoid? If you can't afford the sleeping car or want to save money and avoid an overnight in a hotel or both, this is an excellent product. What more do you want in this class of accommodation for this price? 1 X 2 seating arrangement is normal UK Inter City FIRST CLASS seating so for what was presumably a standard class fare very good. Amenity kit, menu with at seat service. Excellent. For an overnight seated journey, this was excellent. If you want to lie flat and sleep, pay for a sleeper! Otherwise take a daytime train. It will be 2 X 2 in standard class, you will have to pay for 1st class to get 1 X 2 like this. You won't get the amenity kit or an at seat catering menu like this either.
Hell how noisier could they make them....sounds like a dentists drill is constantly whirring. Dont like the decor or lighting. It could be much more subdued to give a greater chance of some shut eye....the lighting looks extremely bright so no chance of that. I am no designer but i could have put a much more condusive interior spec together to ensure a comfortable seated trip......
I think you took a big risk. Now get to your home or hotel and take a good 9-10 hours sleep. Further I am a railfan from India, and I too have one overnight journey video. The train I was on board is almost 1.5 centuries old Darjeeling Mail service. The train got late during the last leg of the journey....due to track maintenance work. The coach was a 3 tier AC sleeper coach. India has 16 car Vande Bharat Express trains that can do 160 kmph and are fully AC chair cars, like the ones you travelled in for this trip report.
Hope you enjoyed my local city! No no no was better sleeping on the HSTs south. I have done the full journey from london to aberdeen during the day. Not been on the new hitachi's yet.
Are you going to try Amtrak's long distance coach class? I did it when I went around the US..it wasn't terrible. More often I ended up sleeping in the lounge car on one of the couches
I’m planning to travel to fort William on this. I’ll book a bed for sure. Just don’t want to book until the dining car is open as I’d love to try the food and have a few whiskeys before heading to bed. Have they reintroduced the dining car or is it closed because of covid. Last time I phoned them they had no plans to reopen it any time soon
On the old sleeper, you still could get a decent kip in any berth, now you have to be picky, and if I can't get the one I want, I'm not going. The seats don't look an upgrade either. I've done the old sleeper in the seats and never again. Even more so on CAF, (Cheap As F...) cars. Nasty rattly things. Such a shame the pods that were promised never materialised.
Greater love hath no man that he give up his sleep for his viewers - thanks!
Bloody luxary compared to my all line rover overnights in the UK I did back in the 1980s lol
Trains in the UK are let down by 'ironing board' seats, and a lack of understanding what First Class should mean. The Caledonian trains are in general very good - but could be so much better. They could start by getting rid of rattles, and then strap the seat designer into one of his/her seats for the journey ! Bet they'd change them then. This was a good and fair report - thank you.
I did love Virgin First Class from Euston to Glasgow - Absolutely wonderful service and seats were so comfortable.
So many decent new trains in the UK ruined by 2 simple things. Seats and lighting.
Fixable but so annoying that our DfT cannot see the self sabotage in cheaping out on these things.
You forgot the constant rattling...
I agree. Why are they so fixated on these seats? It’s not like they’re packing the trains with passengers and must use the maximum amount of seats possible… To that end, the new Lumo service has much more comfortable seats. At 3 abreast, there’s enough space here to have giant, Amtrak style recliners. Why this rubbish? To be honest, they’d do better on the Caledonian by eliminating coach seating completely and just converting everything to sleepers, then lowering the cost of sleepers slightly. It would increase revenue and provide more actually desired capacity.
Even first class seats on those Azumas/IETs are awful as well, I choose Avanti over LNER when I need to travel from London to Edinburgh before the launch of Lumo service as seats on Pendolinos are far better than Azumas.
@@pikachu8508 The only saving grace is that they only take 4 hours to get there.
Totally agree with you!
In my wide railway experience and having had to use the seat coach to Glasgow due to no berths being available, I have to agree. The seating coach looks great but boy it is a very bad design. The seats are shockingly uncomfortable. They DON'T recline, they are SOLID seats. The seat squab does move a couple of inches but that is no help. People on my one and only trip (NEVER AGAIN) were having to lie out ON THE FLOOR because they could not get comfortable. What is just as bad is the ride quality. Shocking. Noisy, clanky, bogie rattle all night long.......give me a mk3 or even mk 2 any time. Caledonian, you should get one of your senior managers to try it out. You would then make the decision to REPLACE all the seats with comfortable ones that ACTUALLY RECLINE. If you need to maintain the same number of seats in the coach, then I suggest people would rather have 2 plus 2 (4 abreast) with decent recline rather than 2 plus 1 without recline. These coaches will be around for decades. Do it now for the sake of your passengers.
6:22 The haggis with neeps (“swedes” or “rutabagas”) and tatties (potatoes) in a whisky cream sauce sound very appetizing ! Good on Caledonian Sleeper for including traditional Scots dishes on their menu !
Haggis = gross.
To be honest, I think the clue is in the name - Caledonian 'Sleeper'. It is primarily a sleeper train and is marketed as such. If you need to travel overnight to/from London, and choose a seat over a berth, then this train certainly beats the only other alternative... a bus! 😣
Maybe, but a ironing board seat in coach which don't recline is NOT acceptable...
I travelled from London Euston to Aviemore in September of last year on the Coach service of the Sleeper. I have used the Caledonian Sleeper service for several trips over about 20 years. I prefer the beds, but have used the seats when the beds were not available. The old style seats were much more comfortable than the new ones, although the train was in need of refurbishing, clean and well maintained and run, but looking worn.
Wel, at least people in UK or outside Indonesia have options between seated coach or sleeper coach. In here we only have seated coach for a night train with more than 10 hours journey. Our state-owned entreprise railway only focus on capacity and that's shame :'(. I'm always envy with people who have a chance to ride a sleeper train.
Are you able to afford the $400lbs for a sleeper? I know most Indonesians cannot.
The only visible possibility for sleep acomodation on Indonesian train is adopting double stack capsule hotel style with full reclining seat or bed, the same that applied on intercity bus with sleeping accommodation. It give more comfort than conventional Eksekutif class seat as it can reclined fully and give more passenger capacity than old couchette model like in europe sleeper train or the Luxury class. Given the size of the passenger car operated in Indonesia train, it can give 30-40 passenger capacity, 4-14 more than Luxury class (26 seat) which can lower the price, around 30% cheaper. The double stack capsule hotel style also give more comfort even more than current Luxury class as it use the full flat bed or near completely reclined seat.
I don't know about the limited recline regulation for the bus (maximum 170 degree recline) also required on train or not but if its required it's still give advantage over couchette model or airplane style seating on Eksekutif class.
I don’t care how comfortable the seats are; they could be made of duck feathers but still I wouldn’t be able to sleep a wink if I’m not lying down. I discovered this fact the hard way years ago when I took the Paris-Nice sleeper, and hoping to save a few bob, I opted for the cheap seats; I literally did not sleep a second. What made it all the more galling (aside from ruining the subsequent first day in Nice), was nearly everyone else in my carriage appeared to sleep like babies. It’s not a train thing, though, as I can never sleep on long-haul flights, either. Normally a good sleeper; just need to be horizontal.
Thank you Thibault for enduring a coach class, uncomfortable, almost sleepless journey for your viewers!! That long trip would only have been in first class sleeper for me. Thank you for sharing your experience. 😀😀♥️♥️
Personally I don't understand why the Caledonian Sleeper don't have French-style couchettes instead of these sleeper chairs. They are a lot more comfortable and the costs for passengers would be around the same.
British people are snobbish to the idea of sharing a room with a stranger.
Same reason why we dont see em in america: a lot of people are opposed to sharing a room with a person (tho they'll be fine with sharing a pair of coach seats). I think younger people are warming up to the idea so it could change, but i'd car culture definitely played a part in this anti-couchettes mindset.
@@piemadd As a huge introvert I'd never. In Europe there's tons of problems with theft on sleeper trains. Simply railway got robbed.
@@piemadd The fact I'd have to hear another human breath and make sounds of life would be repulsive. Imagine going on holiday and having to be considerate of someone else in a small shared space. I'd rather clock in for my shift and not even go on holiday lol
@@alexandervalaris72 Not in the US, in rooms AND in coach. Also I was hinting that they would serve as a good replacement for coach, the same (or higher) density with the same people you would be around, as seen in coach, with greater comfort.
There’s no way I’d travel in the seats overnight - even to make a video! As a light sleeper anyway, I have enough difficulty sleeping in the cabins tbh. Re: the dining car being closed due to staff shortages, this happened to us when we last used this service and seems quite a common problem. For the price you pay, they should really sort this out.
This video brought back fond memories of a round-trip between London-Euston and Inverness on a British Railways sleeper train in 1970. The first-class compartment I booked was surprisingly affordable compared to French 𝙬𝙖𝙜𝙤𝙣𝙨-𝙡𝙞𝙩𝙨, which were expensive. The compartment was smaller than the French ones, but it was comfortable and featured a small sink with a mirror and hot-and-cold. There was also a large window with which to admire the Scottish scenery in the morning. The on-board service was wonderful. When I arrived at the entrance to my carriage, a uniformed attendant had a list of all the passengers of the sleeping car with their names. This enabled him warmly to greet all the passengers by name ! Also, a list of passengers was posted on the sleeping-car’s interior, so you could tell whether anybody you knew was on the train ! In today’s security-conscious environment, what with crime and terrorism, this would be unthinkable ! In those days life was peaceful, civilized, and safe. No policemen with machine-guns the size of Greenland in the stations and on the trains. No health pass either, of course.
Shortly after I settled in, the car attendant stopped by and asked whether you required early-morning tea at 6:30 a.m. Anxious to observe British traditions, I said yes, and promptly at 6:30 a.m. the attendant delivered a tray with tea and biscuits (with a real teapot and a real teacup) with a cheerful greeting of, “Good morning, Sir ! Did you have a restful night ?”
Before settling down for the night, I partook of dinner in the dining car. While not gourmet, dinner consisted of well prepared British food that was flavorful and filling : roast beef (perfectly cooked with mash, two veg, and mushroom gravy, even the green peas were good and tender and not smothered in mint sauce (available on the side upon request), bread roll and butter, and a nice pudding (some sort of trifle, if I remember correctly). I’m French and fussy eater, but I was quite satisfied with my dinner. All in all, it was a lovely trip.
On the way back, the list of passengers came in handy, as I spotted the name of someone I knew, a Frenchman who was returning to Paris after a fishing holiday !
as good as travelling in these prestigious trains yourself. so enjoyable, vibrant, professional and informative are the videos by frenchman thibault . would like him to do a pan canada coast to coast viarail video, vancouver to halifax and new zealand scenic rail journeys.
Excellent video, shame about the seat! Good service from the attendant to give you a coffee though! Absolutely right to book a sleeper cabin if you can!
Thibault, you're a legend for enduring such an uncomfortable seat for so long, dude...
I've only travelled once in the seated coach on this service when they still had the mk2's. Those were more comfortable than what is currently offered. Still didn't get any sleep though as it's difficult to sleep while sitting up. These days I book a Club Room on this service whenever I travel to Scotland overnight.
Ditto
Great trip. I think, the Amtrak Coach still the best in terms of comfort
Its sort of a shame. Amtrak has some of the best trains I've ever been on, but they don't stop anywhere near where i live. So i have to drive 2+ hours to a station.
@@andrewauto6082 I have to drive further. But that is the price you pay living out in the boondocks in the Texas panhandle... Amtrak please bring back the former Burlington Texas Zephyr's train route from Denver to Houston through Amarillo and Dallas...
I could hear one big advantage over Amtrak though: no train horn every 100 meters or so😁😁
Unfortunately America has many roads with at grade crossings requiring by federal law the horn...
I hear what you mean about the rattling!! It is hectic.
I did coach on the Caledonian Sleeper way back 16 or so years ago and it was atrocious. Honestly this looks like a very big upgrade over the old train. On the old train while the seats were meant to recline, they were broken and didn't (a metal bit of the frame dug until me the whole journey), the restaurant car was closed with no explanation and the toilet ran out of paper before we'd even left Scotland. They also didn't dim the lights at all for the whole journey. The reason the coach was so busy even now is because so many people in the UK just can't afford the cost of a sleeper cabin. It's also why you'll find the night buses are often jam packed (and trust me never do the night bus, it's so much worse!!!).
The high speed services to Edinburgh are better, faster and cheaper than this, but… ScotRail needs to get their act together and improve their tracks/electrify, so that they can at least get to 124mph and connect at Edinburgh faster.
It's a real shame what they have done to Aberdeen Station, it used to be beautiful on the outside before they built a shopping centre over the entrance! Also very hard to arrive there by car now, nowhere to park or drop people off.
I went to Inverness last September - booked a twin club room - i never slept at all both journeys - i was on the top bunk , quite claustraphobic , bumpy journey and noisy ( even with ear plugs ). at least i could lay flat and the bedding was lovely quality. I would go again on the caledonian but maybe have a double room or be on the bottom bunk. There customer service team are absolutely brilliant. There were other issues we had both journeys and we had a refund of £150. It was still an adventure and Inverness was a beauty place to visit .
I tried the seat service in sept, which was cold and the lights where far too bright not to mention the ironing board seats.
My bike by contast had a darker and warmer experience.
I always knew the emblem had to do with the Highland deer....but thanks to you, I only just noticed that 1 antler had 3 prongs, and the other antler , 2 prongs ( and the reason for it ! )
Thanks
Aberdeen to London on that seat? what a brave soul lol - who signed that off 🤣
Thanks for the logo explanation. It's a good looking brand mark but had no idea if the subtle meaning.
Thanks for "taking one for the team", Thibault!
I like the waythe new videos are made. Good job Thibault.
Hi Thibault, love your train travel vlogs, I’ve not done the Caledonian train but many years ago I used to have to travel from the ferry station (Stranraer) down to London and it was a nightmare no sleeper then on that route as far as I can remember but at least they had compartments and occasionally you could lie along the seats but no matter what you tried sleeping was impossible and I always arrived red eyed bleary and tired and that’s why folks I took to flying instead
There was an overnight sleeper from Stranraer to London, running via Kilmarnock, but it finished in the late 1980's. For a couple of years after, passengers wanting a sleeper were allowed to travel from Stranraer via Glasgow at no extra cost. Then Ryanair took over and the market fell away!
Took a trip between Aberdeen and London on the sleeper car. It was a fun experience, but didn't get much sleep. I loved the dining car. I had a 3 course dinner wine and everything.
Long live the Pioneers of train science! However, for science one must bring sacrifices sometimes...
Thank you for yours!
Unfortunately the cabins in the new Caledonian sleeper are horribly expensive. They're for tourist 'experiences', not regular travel. I used to use them often for work; since the new sleeper it has been cheaper to take an evening train and stay in a hotel. If I had to travel overnight again I might think about the bus, which was better than the seats in the your video when I last took it... 25 years ago.
An enjoyable video, thanks. your use of English adds character to your narratives. I live in Glasgow and used to use the sleepers now and again, but when Serco took over it went downhill and I haven't used it since. Things seem to be improving again so I might give it a go - although I did see in your film that the restaurant car was closed due to staff shortages. Looks like they still have problems.
The Class 73 locos used in Scotland are an amazing example of longevity.
I liked the lockable lockers for valuables. On-board train theft has been increasing in recent years in the UK. When I go to the toilet, if I've been using my laptop I take it with me!
You expressed surprise at how busy the coach class was - but of course not everyone has the money for a sleeper. When I recently did an on-line search for a sleeper (Glasgow or Falkirk to London) I couldn't find anything under about £230. And clicking the box to say I had a Railcard made no difference price-wise. So I didn't go - I had fancied a trip to London but gave up on the idea.
Another win for Amtrak. Even though they use the same types of passenger cars in the Northeast, they understand that the seats shoudl be different. The Amfleet cars used on the Northeast Regionals and other intercity routes have VERY different interiors to the Amfleets used on the overnight trains, and the latter are better off for it.
Oh man, I wish I had seen this video before my Interrail trip. I took the train from Fort William to London in coach and it was horrible, as you said. Yes, the train looks nice, fresh and new, but there were multiple problems.
1. Connecting in Edinburgh. For some reasons, they don't keep the coach cars. Out of 3 cars, only 1 went to London which was stupid. I travelled from Fort William to London perfectly. I slept for 2 hours non-stop, perfect. You have to wake up, get out of the train, wait for the other trains to arrive and connect and then get to the other side of the platform to check in again. Why CaledonianSleeper? Just let it be the 3 coach cars and fine.
2. Because of this 3 -> 1, the coach was extremely full. We were 3 people from Fort William to Edinburgh. From Edinburgh to London, the coach was full to the last seat. I had reservations (for even 2 people, but my friend got sick earlier on the trip, so I was alone) but a family with idk how many children, probably 4 or 5 were on my seats occupying them and they didn't want to move.
First, in front of me sat a drunk one drinking beer on the train and smelling awful. Then I moved to other place, but it wasn't really better.
3. It was noisy due to the kids who screamed to hole night, the air conditioner was loud. The ride wasn't smooth.
I would have gone with the sleeper car, but it was extremely expensive. I don't get, why they don't introduce couchette for cheap travel. I don't need breakfast, a fancy bed and a shower. Just give me a simple bed and a room and that's it.
So yeah. I should have gone with the alternative and change trains in Glasgow to a standard non-sleeper train.
But thanks for you report!
Do not get a seat with another seat facing away behind it, the recline always sucks. You want a seat behind you that faces the same way as you.
And I've ridden coach for 2 nights 3 days from Los Angeles to Chicago. Definitely a comfortable seat is necessary. And so is being able to lean on the side of the window. 😉 I use a small travel pillow.
The recline is identical on ALL seats on this train. This isn’t Amtrak if you haven’t noticed.
Hard to believe that the Class 73 used to run in Southern England, and was built in the 1960s!
I'm jealous of you getting to see them join the different portions of the train! I'm not jealous of you being awake to see it though!
Your Videos are so soothing
Good video!
It’s amazing that the most fundamental element of a coach, namely comfortable seating, is a such a fail here. What were they thinking? Arriving before 8am would not be much use if you are basically in zombie condition. I assume extremely cheap fare is worth it for some travellers but I would prefer to travel during the day.
Even in the UK, every night riding on a train is one less night at a expensive hotel. Something many do not factor in when riding a train overnight...
I get the advantage of avoiding a hotel cost but there’s the comfort factor to be considered. I think it might be related what matters more, and it may be related to age!
Staff are still needed inbetween the coaches to couple/uncouple the electrical connections, all the scharfenburg does is stops the nasty lurching of a buckeye coupler.
I have travelled on the sleeper from London to Inverness, but in the old stock and in a bed, I had a good nights sleep as well. Didn`t know anything about any stops we made
Station housed in a mall? That's basically every major European train station or airport. And designers in the US are all "hold my beer" about it.
I agree. Whether you put a mall inside a station or a station inside a mall, what’s the difference? People complain about not having stores, until there are stores, and then the same people complain about having them.
@@afcgeo882 the issues is we don't try to find balance. Designers seem to start off with building a mall and then figure out where to shove the planes, trains or buses after. Instead of figuring out where to put something the traveling public would need and would attract non riders.
@@thetrainhopper8992 That’s your opinion, and you have your right to it. Facts are different, however. Lets not dictate baseless opinions as facts. That’s not at all how anything gets designed, and I suspect you’re just being facetious, but it doesn’t come across well
on the internet.
@@afcgeo882 I'm guessing your "facts" say that turning everything into a mall is "objectively good".
@@thetrainhopper8992 STOP. TROLLING.
Any coach class for sleeping porpouses is a real nightmare... I did that once from Rome to Venice, "Don't try that at home kids..."
Sorry to hear that the seated accommodation is bad. A few years back I had seated accommodation in one of the old mk2s between Carlisle and Euston, it was very nice and I got a great nights sleep!
I have made a few overnight bus trips. Bring a light travel rug, helps much
that seat, it's a torture like the plane's!
These trains need something like a couchette, a cheaper sleeping car
I'm traveling to Aberdeen a
In march next year and fort William in August next year and I've got a seat on both trains and I like the seats
Did you ever try an overnight trip on Amtrak that wasn’t a sleeper? It looks like you have, and I probably watched it. I’ll find it and watch again 😃
I have, many times. It was fine. The seats are decently comfortable. You can recline. Obviously, it''s not as comfortable as a sleeper. But it was ok and the cost saving was terrific compared to what you pay for a sleeper.
I did overnight from Grantham to Inverurie way back in 1967 and that was sitting up service - wouldn't want to repeat it.
Thanks for the great review-will definitely get 1st class
Sleeper accommodation on your advice- stay well
J- Philadelphia 🍏
The "mall-ification" of historical buildings is exactly the type of vulgar mercantilism you would expect from the UK. Next, they'll open a Ladbrokes store amongst the dolmens in Stonehenge. I already see the punchline: Lucky Rocks! It's sad.
Those seats are atrocious for an overnight journey - whatever happened to comfortable seating on UK trains?
Pour un train qui conserve un certain standing, des couvertures pourraient être proposées aux passagers des places assises. Il est clair qu'un sleeping est bien plus confortable. J'espère un jour faire le Londres-Fort William pour profiter des paysages d'Ecosse au petit matin. Merci pour la vidéo.
3:45 the plural of terminus is termini.
Great video !!
Considering that we live in modern times and the trains look all nice and shiny , I think I would have preferred to travel in an old Mk 1 carriage stretched out in a compartment with the lights on dim and the heating on full .
Modern dystopia. I never asked to live in a lousy sifi movie
Yes
Great video, Thibault! Sorry you weren't able to sleep much, though.
While I'd never book a seat in an overnight train (since a journey from Inverness to London in non-aircon Mk2s), my sleeper experience wasn't much better. I went from London to Aberdeen in July: booked a Classic room in the middle of the carriage which should have meant a better night's sleep. Got to Euston and was told that my room didn't have any water and I'd be upgraded to a Club Room (ensuite), which was at the end of the carriage. So I got an awful night's sleep and the water wasn't heating up either.
It won't put me off night trains, though. One of the Nightjets is planned next!
I took the seated coach on the sleeper to London from Glasgow back in 2013 or thereabouts because my employers were paying for it, so naturally got the cheapest tickets. Never again! Getting a proper bed is highly recommended.
I travel long distances in road coaches. The las thing I want is the seat in front reclining more than a little.
If you travel in seat class, only do so on lines where there are compartments. You can turn off the light and don't hear everything from across the coach. And usually you can turn two opposing seats into a little bunk. Also these seats are way more comfy
Have you tried Trtl sleeping, err, neck brace/pillow? :) I wonder if it would improve sleep on the coach class travel?
C'mon Thibault, what did you expect in an overnight trip. Have you ever flown coach class in an overnight plane trip? If you are not the type who can easily sleep on these types of trips, don't do it.
I just flew back from Seattle to Detroit on a red eye in comfort class and it was excruciating. But I knew that going in. I would have flown first class if there were seats available. If you can't handle the cheap seats, take the bus.
You've missed the point that he chose to do it in order to review it. Don't be unkind!
Would gladly trade Amtrak coaches for this
Yes please 😀
Thank you Mr Simply😁
I knew when I laid eyes on those seats it wasn't going to be a comfortable sleep. The seat pitch is not enough for long distance and the cushions are very thin. Thanks for a great video tho.
So, they need to fix the rattles and noises and acquire some seats with better padding and a good amount of recline. Not rocket science, is it. Or, maybe, fit double bunks with curtains instead of the seats and call it couchette class?
They allow pets on the train? We have a Carstairs in Alberta, Canada. When on a plane I lean forward and use the tray to "lie" on. That's how I sleep. I would love to go on this sleeper train.
A little pedantic of me but the dining car is usually not open to seated passengers. I've been berated for it in the past!
Try the Fort William section,seated coaches only go to Inverness and Aberdeen so the FW passengers have to get out in Edinburgh at 0400 and change to a seated carriage shunted on!FW to/from London is beds only guessing it must be something to do with the length of the train?
I must say the seat looked quite comfortable!
@Simply Railway COULD YOU PLEASE DO A REVIEW ON THE SOUTH SHORE LINE???? I WOULD LOVE IT.
A propos, Thibault, tu as essayé le 𝙝𝙖𝙜𝙜𝙞𝙨 aux rutabagas et pommes de terre sautées ?
𝘉𝘺 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘸𝘢𝘺, 𝘛𝘩𝘪𝘣𝘢𝘶𝘭𝘵, 𝘥𝘪𝘥 𝘺𝘰𝘶 𝘵𝘳𝘺 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘩𝘢𝘨𝘨𝘪𝘴 𝘸𝘪𝘵𝘩 𝘯𝘦𝘦𝘱𝘴 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘵𝘢𝘵𝘵𝘪𝘦𝘴 𝘸𝘪𝘵𝘩 𝘸𝘩𝘪𝘴𝘬𝘺 𝘤𝘳𝘦𝘢𝘮 𝘴𝘢𝘶𝘤𝘦 ?
Seats like ironing boards. And feel the same no doubt.
Amtrak does a better long distance coach.
Great video! I'm doing this route but the opposite direction in a few weeks time but In a classic room.
Honestly, I have no idea why they still offer coach seats on a sleeper train.
Why not go down the Amtrak route and offer roomettes with seats that fold into beds and bunks? Or couchette rooms for those on short journeys?
While I am not certain, this trains does not stop in England for embarking or disembarking passengers until it reaches London... Most of the Scottish stops are before midnight southbound, and after dawn northbound... In Scotland other trains run during the daytime hours...
That was and interesting trip although like you said lights, rattles, and seats = Fail...😢
Thank you for sharing this video with us.
Stay safe out there...😀
I really liked your Europe Train review! It's sad to learnt that you were not able to sleep well that night...did you caught some sleep after the journey?
I love the Sleeper, but those seats look more uncomfortable than the old Sleeper coach seats. You could sleep decently in the old ones.
I've journeyed on the Caledonian from Edinburgh to London but in a sleeper car. Cannot imagine doing it in a coach seat.
Thank you for taking the hit for the rest of us. It's a beautiful train but 10 hours overnight is too much for coach.
Only because your travelling on a sleeper service,especially in coach class,doesn’t necessarily mean you’ll get a nights sleep.
Expensive for coach class!
Why the Americanisation? 'Coach' class? In the UK?
Why avoid? If you can't afford the sleeping car or want to save money and avoid an overnight in a hotel or both, this is an excellent product. What more do you want in this class of accommodation for this price? 1 X 2 seating arrangement is normal UK Inter City FIRST CLASS seating so for what was presumably a standard class fare very good. Amenity kit, menu with at seat service. Excellent. For an overnight seated journey, this was excellent. If you want to lie flat and sleep, pay for a sleeper! Otherwise take a daytime train. It will be 2 X 2 in standard class, you will have to pay for 1st class to get 1 X 2 like this. You won't get the amenity kit or an at seat catering menu like this either.
Hell how noisier could they make them....sounds like a dentists drill is constantly whirring.
Dont like the decor or lighting. It could be much more subdued to give a greater chance of some shut eye....the lighting looks extremely bright so no chance of that. I am no designer but i could have put a much more condusive interior spec together to ensure a comfortable seated trip......
I think Amtrak view liners are better, you have your own personal space, bed, service, etc.
I think you took a big risk. Now get to your home or hotel and take a good 9-10 hours sleep.
Further I am a railfan from India, and I too have one overnight journey video. The train I was on board is almost 1.5 centuries old Darjeeling Mail service. The train got late during the last leg of the journey....due to track maintenance work. The coach was a 3 tier AC sleeper coach. India has 16 car Vande Bharat Express trains that can do 160 kmph and are fully AC chair cars, like the ones you travelled in for this trip report.
Hope you enjoyed my local city! No no no was better sleeping on the HSTs south. I have done the full journey from london to aberdeen during the day. Not been on the new hitachi's yet.
I love your videos
The seat pitch and almost no reclining is rough for a 10 hr journey. Are the UK train bodies narrower than US? It feels so narrow from the video.
Are you going to try Amtrak's long distance coach class? I did it when I went around the US..it wasn't terrible. More often I ended up sleeping in the lounge car on one of the couches
Done the cattle class a few years ago Edinburgh to Preston,noisy uncomfortable and at £90 one way not cheap,but still better than megabus
Coach class? There are two classes on British trains; First Class and Standard Class (which is erroneously called Second Class by some).
On day trains, yes. On the two night services there are sleeper and coach classes.
But here there are multiple classes on this train . One in a coach/carriages. And three in the sleeper with a bed (classic,club or double).
I’m planning to travel to fort William on this. I’ll book a bed for sure. Just don’t want to book until the dining car is open as I’d love to try the food and have a few whiskeys before heading to bed. Have they reintroduced the dining car or is it closed because of covid. Last time I phoned them they had no plans to reopen it any time soon
That would be . . . . two termini [please].
On the old sleeper, you still could get a decent kip in any berth, now you have to be picky, and if I can't get the one I want, I'm not going.
The seats don't look an upgrade either. I've done the old sleeper in the seats and never again. Even more so on CAF, (Cheap As F...) cars. Nasty rattly things.
Such a shame the pods that were promised never materialised.