Massive NEWS! All Legacy Armies rules have been released!
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- čas přidán 21. 01. 2024
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GW DONE DID IT! Fresh off the presses - GW has released the Legacy aka RENEGADE factions for Warhammer The Old World. Are they good? Are they terrible? Should you play them? We can answer one of those things, and you'll have to tune in to find out which one.
Links to the podcast only version on all platforms:
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#warhammer #warhammertheoldworld #warhammerfantasy #warhammercommunity #squarebassed #theoldworld #warhammerpodcast #thehonestwargamer - Hry
ERRORS AND OMISSIONS:
Chaos Dwarfs DID Have a hobgoblin bolt thrower way back in 4th Edition.
Whither the Dark Elf Fleetmaster?
Skaven are without their Verminlord
JINKS :)
and 6th.. it was in ravening hordes
They were so good in 6th - 30 points each, and two for one special choice!
Glad to see them back. I’ve got 4 painted and ready to go!
noobs... :D
Skaven are also missing stormfiends
Next edition- Warhammer: the New World
Makes a lot of sense for Lizards and Dark Elves
Agreed, Lizards, Delfs, Skaven & Vampires in one book, two matched boxes maybe too much to hope for 🤞
Warhammer: Lost Lands, brings in Lizardmen, dark elves, cathay and ogres. Warhammer: siege of Praag, brings in Demons and Kislev. Warhammer: Hidden threat, brings in Vampires and Skaven.
They called me crazy for buying 48 Ogre bulls.
WHO'S CRAZY NOW?!? (Probably still me)
Not only are the Spoilpox Scrivener and Sloppity Bilepiper called out as Daemonic Gifts (upgrades for characters), the Infernal Enrapturess is as well for Slaanesh. So the AoS and ToW split feels extremely odd at this point.
Just spitballing: at some point there wasn't a split and someone along the leadership chain decided there should be.
What I'm hearing is if you play a "renegade" army you will never need to buy a new army book and your rules are playtested, complete and balanced.
Personally I'm massively excited to do Vampire Counts.
Until the organized community gets their paws om it and try to rebalance. IT NEVER ENDS LOL
Oh and some of them have newer AOS miniatures that can be used too... all set!!
That's the best thing about playing 6th edition still... never have to worry about changes to my armies :D
yes but the problem is these pdf arent balanced,they are useless vs core armys. but yes pdf armys are balanced betwen pdf armys but some tiers under cores
@@toro132 i dont see core armies better than these really. Except the guys from the forests, of course.
I played Chaos Dwarfs with the Ravening Hordes pdf list for three whole editions (6th-8th). Other than not being able to play at some tournaments which I'm not fussed about, there was never a problem. On the very rare occasion someone took off-site it was a nice early red flag not to bother playing them anyway. The most common reason i got was "awesome army I haven't seen those in years!"
FYI, Abyssal Dwarves from Kings of War are perfect proxies for Chaos Dwarves
Lost kingdom ones are really nice to
Titan forge and Lost Kingdom miniatures both also make great Chaos Dwarves alternatives
I'm putting Pink Horrors as allied units in my Warriors of Change army and no one is going to stop me!
But...but...it's against the LAW!
You can't just go changing things and causing chaos in a Tzeentch army...oh...wait... 🤔
If your gaming group is cool with it, why not!
You do you. I'd be good with it.
Ran into someone at the local warhammer store that I only knew from fantasy tournaments 20+ years ago because they were picking up OW for thier lizardmen army. Yeah, we will be using the renegade rules in Kansas, I am sure!
I like how they put on like every page "DON'T PLAY THESE EXCEPT FOR FUNSIES!"
Sure GW, we wont...
But ain't the goal of a game be funsies?
I’m really like the chaos dwarf rules. They will be my second army once I get my Tomb kings up and running.
For the fighting rank and supporting attacks thing, Page 150 Rob Excess Wounds, the paragraph explains both that models stepping into the second rank can still make supporting attacks (only models that step into the fighting rank cannot attack) and that losing models beyond your fighting rank strips an equivalent number of supporting attacks. You didn't make your argument so I have no idea which side you and Val are on this but that's the explanation and the rules reference lol, it's fairly explicit unless there's a contradicting rule.
This is correct and what I Rob was quoting
@@SquareBasedOldWorldGotcha, he never finished the thought and he seemed he and Val disagreed so I didn't know who I was correcting if anybody lol.
On page 150 it explicitly says that models and quote: "models removed as casualties before having a chance to attack, and models that stepped forward during the current phase, cannot attack. Therefore, the number of casualties inflicted on a unit will often reduce the number of models able to fight back"
The rule you are talking about in regards to 'supporting attack' is referencing supporting attacks which is its own minor rule which says the following : "Some models are equipped with weapons that allow them to make a ‘supporting attack’. To make a supporting attack, a model must be directly behind a friendly model that is itself in a fighting rank."
This means the 'excess wounds' rule you are talking about really only affects models that have the 'fight in extra ranks rule' special rule or that are equipped with spears, but even then if spears take enough wounds they can still lose all of their attacks.
It is also worth noting that a champion can always strike back unless they are specifically targeted and killed, so you will usually at least have them to fight because they occupy the front rank.
@intact01 this is the interpretation I had in my mind. We're going to go over in detail on the next Square Based Show : )
100% there was a HG bolt thrower, low and sleek. A friend had a beautifully painted army in the olden days.
Just taken a look at the Dark Elf range that's still available: there's some really nice sculpts there. It's tempting, very tempting.
Oh and blue horrors did exist in old editions of Fantasy.
GW seems adamant about not updating the legacy factions. I do wonder how serious that is though because that dark elf range in Cities of Sigmar surely isn't staying in AoS.
Absorbing the Vampire Counts pdf and I'm super amped to get started on it. I've even emailed them about an error on what the casting value for Hellish Vigour is under Lore of Undeath. It says 9+/12+ then 7+/10+ in the description. Anyway, I'm loving what I see so far and can't wait to have fun with this guys. Thank you!
Im disappointed to see A vampire count gets worse and worse every edition. With stats like they have now in the old world a third tier (vampire lord?) should of been (re)introduced.
And then there’s the massive cut down on powers and the rule of one per army. 😢
@@brett7773 I am disappointed there isn't a Vampire Lord or actual Blood Line Powers... its free AND technically not a faction in Warhammer The Old World.
I get one of my favorite factions back even though they aren't technically apart of the story they are telling with this edtion of the old world.
Btw. Which casting values do you think is correct?
@@brett7773 what I would think is look at spells that do thr same thing..
Do love me some Vampire Counts and Chaos Dwarfs army list sounding awesome as hell.
I'm getting hype for Rob Deep Drive on the army lists at some point.
Thank you for the amazing work as always guys.
looks like they just said all those end times models (verminlord stormfiends) are gonna stay in end times and sigmar, and you know what thats kinda ok
There was a hobgoblin bolt thrower back in the day - I have the loaders but have lost the bolt thrower!
Added to errors and omissions!
I can almost see it: Val being picked up by a helicopter to get home in time to do the live show.
Thanks for the show, you guys made the launch of this game an amazing ride
Any thoughts on doing a video about outstanding questions & oddities after your first event or two? There are some oddities flying around already (mega lines, how to put non-fitting bases into lances, killing blow / monster slayer on assailments and magic missiles, omissions of counter charge on some mounts) that I'd love to hear refined thoughts on after events have started.
So glad about the content of these legacy armies, got my first game on Sunday playing Vampire Counts against Bretonnians!
Looks like these lists are definitely up to spec with the book factions. Glad they weren't half-assed, and were clearly written with the same intent as all the other factions.
War Hydra is there in the DE List under Rare Units
Chaos Dwarf detachments! This pdf is awesome, Im excited
I never had the opportunity to play WHFB as a kid and I only attend one GT a year (non GW), I'll be starting with renegades. I'm not going to let this be an impediment to my fun.
Been writing my 1k ogre list to get used to the rules.
If there's a plan to add Cathay at some point, and I know they said that was their intention, I'm sure my ogres will be returned since they're one of Cathay's major foes.
As a Warriors of Chaos player, I’m supporting GW/ The Old World by buying their books, that’s it. As for the models, I’m keeping my army theme around 5th/ early 6th edition - which usually involves eBay/ Marketplace. eBay prices seem comparable now to what GW charge, if not cheaper.
Leave it to GW to make rare models on eBay look like a decent deal.
Even the OLD (metal) black coach, has never fit on a chariot base.
Way back in the day mine came with a chariot base and two horse bases to be put in front of the chariot base. Even then it barely fits.
Also slightly sad not to see any rules for Morghasts since i picked them up in the end times and don't really know what I could proxy them as, but overall i'm pretty happy.
I was hoping y'all would do an emergency pod!
Really appreciate you guys and your thorough coverage of everything up through the release of the game. Your excitement for the game is definitely contagious and I'm looking forward to getting started once I settle on a faction to build/paint
I just want to say, the documents specify that the rules contained in them will not be updated. They DO NOT say that the armies themselves will not be introduced in new expansions.
Hey I'm thinking something similar too so
40:00 It still is a Rainbow Coalition if you want it. Off-Brand Core Daemons move to Special, Off-Brand Special move to Rare, no?
Yeah, you can totally still run multi-god lists. The big thing you get from staying mono-god (aside from keyword synergies, that of course is a big deal), is you can run more of the Rare units in your Special slot. But honestly, given how there isn’t a HUGE variety of special units for each Keyword, I think spreading out to multiple gods will be appealing. I dunno if you want to run all 4, but I can easily see 2, maybe 3.
Oh one more Chaos dwarf thing - I’m a little disappointed that I can include Orcs & Goblins in the army (Lore wise, they were slaves driven to the fight)…happy about the black orcs though.
So much awesome content, wonder how many of my ogors i can use for old world, or if i'll have to dig out my greenskinz for some square based antics.
Only tricky bit is the characters really. As their bases are usually a lot bigger.
"They said they wouldn't update the horus heresy legacy PDFs but they have been. More regularly than the core army books." --- This. If they see that we play these factions, eventually they will include them in the lore and/or update the PDF's. Right now they want to sell actual core ToW armies so are spinning it, but there will be buckets of money to be had with legacy armies in the future.
Exactly. If we just ignore them and play them they'll come around.
I've been buying and/or printing and painting 1000 point armies from a bunch of these factions ... and through pure luck, most are pretty valid according to the PDFs!
I sooooo want to do the Snotling/Gnoblar slap fight again :)
Val's intros continue to provide the boost of energy I need in my days. Caught the 2nd half live on Twitch but so happy to watch on repeat on CZcams.
Pretty sure Chais Dwarfs had hob Gobbo bolt throwers in the 4th edition White Dwarf supplement
I have a small Chaos Dwarf and HobGoblin army from the 90s.
Hobgoblin bolt throwers we’re a thing in the original chaos dwarves :)
The OLD metal black coach doesn't fit on the chariot base, it's 150mm long!
I wonder if TO’s will update the ‘Allies’ rules for the core factions, so they can take allied contingency’s from the legacy factions.
4th-5th edition had Hobgoblin bolt throwers with a dedicated model released. Cool model too
45:43 High elves are on the sideline now… Chaos Dwarves! ❤️🤘🤣
Hobgoblin bolt throwers are a thing. I believe I have two.
Quick of the mark lads,great overview of the renegade factions! Vampire counts for the win ……..I hope!
Great coverage!
I have a 4th Ed Chaos Dwarf army…kinda wondering how the old models interact :)
Great podcast lads, I love you two. First started listening to val Effnjeff’llfingerblaster back when he started 40k stats centre on frontline. Rob is heroic for hosting t9a masters and letting ptg bois borrow all his gear. ❤❤❤
Awww... 40K Stats Centre .... Rest in Power. - Val
it's funny to see that not even the beastmen or warriors of chaos want to be allies with those stinky daemons.
I’m glade they are including chaos dwarves
Khorne Daemons feel pretty good, but I'll have to put them on the table
I am so hyped for Chaos Dwarf Bull focused list
My suspicion is that since they've made clear effort to say the The Old World is focusing on a very specific area and time period, as tOW grows and expands narratively we'll start seeing this trickle in properly.
And I may or may not already have been testing out how many bases of various units I can fit on my Saturn 2 at one time.
Vampire Counts can take Tomb Kings as normal allies
I OBJECT
I disappointed that Val didn't do the submarine alarm on the use of the word "deep dive"
They said they wouldn't update the horus heresy legacy PDFs but they have been. More regularly than the core army books.
So along the line of the Heroic Return of Chaos Dwarves; when you read the timeline of the Old World in the BTealB there's a lot more presence and detail about Cathay and Kislev I feel? Went back and compared to my 6th and 8th books and it definitely felt true to me! Do we dare to dream guys?
I SAY DREAM ON
So glad to see the renegades and free pdfs, what in the world! Loved the video.
I'm a RENEGADE LIZZY PLAYER merchandise when?
I'm probably gonna be the motor for this at my LGC, I'm just gonna keep to base edition so that anything can be played. At least until Kislev comes out, then I can paint my old timey Ice Queen Katarin.
I would say that we might see new factions in future editions for example maybe a new undead Vampire Lord, for example if we see the Old World map there is Lord Harkon in border Princes. I think this is the Red Keep home of the blood knights!
My first army is Skaven. My second (Old World) army will be Warriors of Chaos. And BAM! Allies for Skaven are Warriors of Chaos. Great!
If there are enough people showing up at independent tournaments with 3d printed Dark Elves, Chaos Dwarfs and all the other missing units from the renegade factions, GW will listen and make them available.
Nothing gets their attention quicker than money they think should belong to them!
Hi guys, greetings from Russia.We also have chat rooms buzzing about this, but I'm glad that at one time I started collecting 8 armies and now half of them are relevant) By the way, I also don't believe that GW will score against other armies, it would be catastrophically stupid.
My favorite two youtubers, keep up the good work! ❤
Level 4 necromancer is back baby!!!!!!!! We can do again a list without vampires!!!!!!!
love how the greater demons have multiple base sizes
We had Bolt throwers in 5th
thanks xxx
Ive brought some of the AOS lizardmen for my army
Here's me crying in Dogs of War. I loved that army. I loved their lore. I can't help that I'm a filthy capitalist.
Lol @Ye somehow being brought up in this!
Anyways I'm pleasantly surprised at the thoroughness of these pdf rules, I really thought GW was gonna phone it in more.
Getting all geared up to drag the other armies back to the pits of Zharr in chains, happy days.
Are Mercenaries going to be Tilea in the future? Is it discussed in the Core Rules at all?
Of all legendary factions that should have special characters, daemons should. Those are the opposite of being grounded to a time and place
My long dreamed Nagarythe themed Duel use High/Dark elf army may just become a reality…..
All the hype!!!!! Vampire Counts are back babyyyyyyy
Vampire Counts ARE GREAT!
I'm a bit SAD there are no Actual Bloodlines and I won't be able to have a Vampire LORD, but thats fine, I'll just play cheesy INSTEAD XD
I am just kind of weirded out by the 0-1 skink priests or oldbloods per 1000 points. A skink priest is not equivalent to an oldblood...but if I want an old blood to lead my army I need to take a slann for magic.
Geist is ghost/spirt in German. In German, the general
Rule is E then I is ‘I’, I then E is ‘E’.
Further the German word is in line with that rule pronounced ‘I’.
That being said, you’re the man Rob and you can pronounce it however you want. Vincy V says ‘neekrons’, and I’ve gotten over that.
I agree that the active armies in AoS are getting protected, because they fear people leaving AoS for the TOW. I think the Chaos Dwarfs might have been a business decision due to the condition of the moulds. The decision was probably made to not invest in redesigning moulds to make figures for the army. They then used the storyline setting to justify streamlining to number of factions.
Not even the old black coach fits on that base... 😅
Seriously you guys are incredible. There are always good points made in all the shows you do with fun positivity, tempered with a big dose of reality checks so for me this is the best warhammer show out there. And also Val always makes me laugh with his intros so super thanks for what you guys are doing
It's a shame they didn't run something similar to 6th ed chaos for daemons. In 6th, for warriors of chaos, if your army was led by a daemon, all daemon units were core and mortals were special and vica versa.
Maybe a Slaanesh leader would allow other gods units are special instead of core and only limit it to not have the gods rivals units (Slaanesh hating Khorne, Nurgle hating Tzeench)?
Either way, I'm super happy all my factions now have lists!
i must say the snarlfang riders are more the perfect upgrade of goblin wolfrider than hobgoblin wolfriders, they really have nothing of warhammer hobgoblin look XD.
Hobgoblin Bolt Throwers were a thing in 4th edition. They were a rubbish thing in the context of the Chaos Dwarf army, but a thing nonetheless.
There was even a model.
HUMBLED AS ALWAYS BY THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE COMMENTARIAT
and they only had a crew of two which made even more rubbish.
What no claxon? Also excited about the Chaos Dwarves. Sad Astragoth is gone.
THAT'S FOR DEEP DOIVIN'
SKAVEN !!!!! yes-yesssss
hobgolins DID have a bolt thrower. no orcs and gobbo slaves :(
Val: Master of intros!
Great video!
Can’t wait for Rob and Val’s late nineties hip hop podcast ‘It’s all about the Based ‘
It's actually also just called Square Bassed
i would have liked to see more than just the forgeworld models in the chaos dwarf list..
and the hobgoblin bolt thrower is real and from the older range.
The best entrance ever? I think so!
Maybe Name it ….
“Warhammer Legionary Battles.”
I wish they add Lesser Factions. “Nippon,” “Roman/ Spartan,” “Amazon,” “Norsca,” “Desert Raiders,” India/ Elephant” ,”Maruder/Pirates,” “Deep kin,” & Non Orion Wood Elves Druids,” (mentioned in “Storm of Chaos?)
The Possibility adding New units from “Warhammer Total War, AOS Minis, & “Warcry?”
With Other Discontinued 28mm Miniature Lines.
Games Workshop can Focus on Making Rulebooks, Codex, Faction Cards, Dice, Update manuals, & Weapon/ Bits upgrades?
“Wrath of Kings,”
(Cathay, Chaos, & Vampires)
“Clan War,”
(Nippon & Cathay)
“Warmachine, & Hordes”
(Tons Factions, & Creatures)
“Wargods,”
(Roman, Spartan, & Chaos)
“Black Powder,”
(Pirates & Marauders)
“Frost Grave,”
(Renegade / Rebelion Factions & others)
“Confrontation,” “Caildwell,”
(Undead, Chaos Dwarfs, &
I have this weird theory that a bunch of stuff was released in the last year or so in AoS just to lock it up so it couldnt be used in this. For instance, the "Regiments of Renown" boxes that werent really anything different, theres that hashut warband, obviously the "not hobgoblins" seraphon, soulblight, skaven, etc havent really advanced past their old world looks, they released that terrain for warcry that is the same image of the lizardmen spaceship from warhammer 1 (I think, maybe from expansion or WD). The other theory is if renaming everything for AoS allowed them to copyright very common fantasy things, then openly admitting that whatever goofy name they have in AoS also works as common fantasy name in Old World might give them issues until everything is replaced.
awww i'm kinda sad that its 0-1 slann. i wanted to do a silly double slann list :(
Not a skaven player but where have their two team member special weapons gone? 2 man fire thrower was in the original jez goodwin sculpts and then there was the mortar in the isle of blood.
Gone